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Debate Info

42
46
Hate him Love him
Debate Score:88
Arguments:26
Total Votes:109
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 Hate him (13)
 
 Love him (17)

Debate Creator

Tugman(749) pic



Michael Moore

I mean Michael Moore the fat movie maker that made Farenheit 9/11.

Hate him

Side Score: 42
VS.

Love him

Side Score: 46
6 points

First off, let me say that there is no middle ground here, so I will just post on this side to make some people mad. I know this side is the one Tugman wants to see winning anyway. ;)

I really neither love nor hate Michael Moore, mostly because I think every point of view needs an opposing view from the other end of the spectrum to exist.

He's doing his thing, creating controversy, and there are the people that love him as well as the people that hate him, and I kind of like to sit back and watch the two duke it out.

If I could say one positive thing about Moore, it would be that he brings many topics to the limelight and allows them to be debated by the public.

On a personal level, I don't think too highly of him. I find him kind of... Crude, for the lack of a better word.

Side: Hate him
4 points

PIG PIG PIG PIG PIG LIBERAL DIRTY PIG PIG PIG PIG PIG PIG!

His documentaries do NOT show the whole 360 of things. It's just his 180 from the current situation and that's it.

Side: Hate him

Michael Moore is a big fat liar. But I get a kick out of him ;)

Side: Hate him
3 points

I don't really hate him. Really, i wouldn't care about what he does, but the problem is that he is really stupid and does stupid things.

1. Made people think that Trey Parker and Matt Stone hate America and hate guns.

2. Says that Osama Bin Laden used CIA tactics to plan 9/11. I've never heard of slamming a plane into a building as a CIA tactic.

3. Says that it doesn't make sense for Cubans to be coming to America, that instead "Americans should be taking inner tubes to Cuba". Any Cuban who heard him say this would have probably slit his throat. Cuba was hell for them.

4. Used a horrible symbolic reference to Fahrenheit 451. Also is a complete contradiction since 451 was an anti-communism book while Michael Moore endorses Cuba (a communist country).

5. Believes that supporting the second amendment is the same as supporting the KKK.

I mean, yes, he hates America. A lot of people do. You're not necessarily stupid for doing so. but for the reasons listed, HE is very stupid.

Side: Hate him
HGrey87(750) Disputed
2 points

Again Pyg, you have a terrible habit of putting straw man arguments in people's mouths.

1. Made people think that Trey Parker and Matt Stone hate America and hate guns.

"Hate America?" Where do you get that?

2. Says that Osama Bin Laden used CIA tactics to plan 9/11. I've never heard of slamming a plane into a building as a CIA tactic.

Al-Qaida was previously funded and trained by the CIA, during their conflict with Russia. You've never heard of the CIA doing that, because it's the fucking CIA.

3. Says that it doesn't make sense for Cubans to be coming to America, that instead "Americans should be taking inner tubes to Cuba". Any Cuban who heard him say this would have probably slit his throat. Cuba was hell for them.

That was meant as hyperbole. There's no reason to believe that was a serious statement.

4. Used a horrible symbolic reference to Fahrenheit 451. Also is a complete contradiction since 451 was an anti-communism book while Michael Moore endorses Cuba (a communist country).

F451 was anti-totalitarian. And he does not endorse Cuba, he endorses their health care.

5. Believes that supporting the second amendment is the same as supporting the KKK.

Not saying you're wrong, just wondering what you're basing that on.

Side: Love him
ThePyg(6737) Disputed
2 points

1. the cartoon was making America seem like a racist, imperial country. sounds like hate towards America to me.

2. He said "CIA tactics"... meaning their procedures. as i said, slamming a plane into a building is not a CIA tactic.

3. It was a serious statement because he truly believes that Cuba is better off. This was all in his movie Sicko. Cubans, on the other hand, hate Cuba because it was Hell for them. It's insulting to insinuate that their efforts to come to America was flawed.

4. The system described in Fahrenheit 451 resembled that of Communist countries.

5. In his movie Bowling for Columbine he points to the fact that the NRA started at the same time as the KKK and pointed out how white people wanted guns because they wanted to protect themselves from black people. I mean, he never mentions the fact that white people maybe want guns because they want to protect themselves from ANYONE. Basically, he goes on a rant about how in order to keep the slaves from rebelling, the whites load up on guns. and once the slaves become free, the NRA and KKK start at around the same time because white people wanted to make sure that they had the upper hand over blacks by keeping their right to bear arms.

Side: Hate him

Ugh, Michael Moore. He has interesting points. He makes a captivating film. He has to get over himself. He's essentially a muckraker on steroids.

Side: Hate him
2 points

I don't hate him.

I don't like him.

I disagree with almost everything he says. I think he often acts like a child, but don't we all?

Side: not very fond
1 point

As much as I'd like to like him, he just comes off as a gigantic asshole. I mean, he has some valid points, but he has a problem with gloating, stretching the truth, and being generally snotty.

Idk, I guess I'm over critical.

Edit:

You know that guy who makes everyone else in a group look bad? You know, the guy that you kind of avoid and want to roll your eyes every time he opens his mouth? Micheal Moore is that guy.

Side: Hate him
6 points

If it wasn't for this man, people would still be able to buy bullets from Walmart.

Let me repeat that.

People (even teenagers) could buy BULLETS at WALMART!

I started following this man's documentaries after watching Bowling for Columbine, and I have to say I have a lot of respect for him.

He brings attention to outrageously unfair practices and he does it with a subtle sense of humor (the books are better at that).

If it wasn't for him, the masses would have never heard about the ties the Bush family had with the Bin Laddens.

If it wasn't for him, the current state of the American health system would never have been exposed for what it really is, unfair and disgraceful (watch Sicko).

But what I like most is that, although you could classify him as a democrat, he does attack his party all the time. He is more preoccupied with the rights of the people than with party politics.

Side: Love him

You've taken every point and said it exactly as I would have...and I couldn't have done it better. Kudos, Argento.

Side: Love him
Tugman(749) Disputed
-1 points

"If it wasn't for him, the current state of the American health system would never have been exposed for what it really is, unfair and disgraceful... But what I like most is that, although you could classify him as a democrat, he does attack his party all the time. He is more preoccupied with the rights of the people than with party politics."

The American health system is the best in the world. We have the best doctors and the best medical facilities. Moore is a socialist. He doesn't care about the rights of people that disagrees with him. We should be allowed to by ammunition at Wal-Mart because they sell guns and if you sell guns you need to sell ammo. He even believes that there is not a terrorist threat.

Side: Hate him
Argento(512) Disputed
9 points

The American Health system is the best in the world

Really?

Because the World Health Organization ranked the USA Health Care System as the highest in cost, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd in overall health (among 191 countries). You're not only beaten by the likes of the United Kingdom (18th) and France (1st), but countries like San Marino, Andorra, Malta, Singapore, Colombia, Costa Rica and Italy have better health performance than the US.

( http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

http://www.photius.com/rankings/who_world_health_ranks.html )

Do you want to know where you ranked among the 19 "developed" countries? Last. And that's according to the Commonwealth Fund which analyzes 37 measures, including access to care, quality of care, and health outcomes.

( http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/337/jul21_1/a889 )

Take a look at the World Health Statistics 2008

( http://www.who.int/entity/whosis/whostat/4.xls )

People pay more for health care services in America than any other place in the world, yet they use those services below the average measure.

And according to the Institute of Medicine: "Although America leads the world in spending on health care, it is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage."

Are you sure you stand by that statement now?

We have the best doctors and the best medical facilities

Although I don't doubt the abilities of your doctors, to claim that you have substantial evidence to support that part of your statement is laughable. The publications above and those rankings, in my opinion, imply that you don't. But even it it was true, what's the point in having the best if no one can afford them? What's the point in having the best if you are still 72nd in overall health? As for the facilities, I refer you to the Commonwealth Fund publication which analyzes 37 parameters, and ranked you last, among the 19 developed countries.

I think my use of the word "disgraceful" must have kick-started your defense mechanism, but please don't take this as an attack towards your country. If anything I expressed my opinion in such strong manner because when I saw the documentary about your Health System and then did my own research, I felt for your people. I honestly couldn't believe these facts at first. Here in Europe, we've had universal health care for ages and although it has its problems, it has worked fine. No one has been thrown out cause they can't pay. There are private companies too but most people don't need them.

As for your other arguments, whether people should be able to buy a gun with their tomatoes and bananas, and bullets next to the cheese section... is another debate altogether. I'm not going to lie to you, I am a bit shocked for words that you find nothing wrong with guns and bullets being sold at the supermarket.

Side: Love him
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
3 points

I pay out the ass for health insurance. It covers nothing, especially not dental and there is a $40 copay... And I'm lucky enough to be one of the very few young adults who can even afford health coverage.

The last time I went to a Doctor, I sat on the table for fifteen minutes watching him play on the computer through his cracked office door. He came out, didn't look me in the eyes, didn't touch me, and told me I had allergies (which I don't). I went home and had to medicate my damn self.

I wish I could say that's a rarity, but that's how doctors do in this country. Because the standards are so low....

I live in San Diego, and I'm sorry to say, but every other issue of the San Diego Reader seems to be centered around locals going to TJ for better health care at a lower cost....

I'm going to have to pull out the "you're just a kid" card and let you know... you don't know shit about health care.

Side: Love him
HGrey87(750) Disputed
2 points

The American health system is the best in the world. We have the best doctors and the best medical facilities. Moore is a socialist. He doesn't care about the rights of people that disagrees with him. We should be allowed to by ammunition at Wal-Mart because they sell guns and if you sell guns you need to sell ammo. He even believes that there is not a terrorist threat.

You are funnier than Ann Coulter sometimes. Keep up the comedy, Tug.

Side: Love him
2 points

I simple love Michel Moore way of portraying his view through the documentary he makes. Each of his Documentary sets about to uncover the truth were no News channels have dared to venture ( this is true for most American News channel who make a point not to offended there Dear Advertisers….. ) . Michael Moore has also done a good job in sparking interest in documentaries to people who where not exposed to it before, and lets not forget that three of the top five highest-grossing documentaries of all time belongs to Michael Moore.

Side: Love him
2 points

i dont hate or love him but i think he raises some interesting questions. his films are a bit biased and tend to only show his point of view.

Side: Love him
1 point

I don't love him... But I am proud that he is doing what needs to be done.

It's important that people out there, like accuracy in media and courage campaign, are after liars political con men.

Side: Love him

I think his movies are good and pack the punch. I do like many of his opinions.

Side: Love him