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Debate Info

56
62
Punishment No Punishment
Debate Score:118
Arguments:145
Total Votes:118
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 Punishment (51)
 
 No Punishment (50)

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Cartman(18192) pic



More Discrimination in Colorado Bakery?

Another case of discrimination has appeared in a Colorado bakery.  This time it is a Christian asking for an anti gay message to be put on a cake.  The customer wanted 2 men on the cake with an X over them.  The bakery owner would not make the cake exactly the way the customer wanted, but would give them the icing to finish it.  Colorado has already decided that refusing service to people for being gay is discrimination.  Will they determine that refusing service to a Christian is also discrimination? Should the bakery owner be punished for not making the cake?

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Punishment

Side Score: 56
VS.

No Punishment

Side Score: 62
1 point

If they are going to punish Christians, we have to punish the liberal left and pro gay crowd

Side: Punishment
1 point

Nobody is punishing Christians, so enough with your hate.

Side: No Punishment
Astac(242) Disputed
1 point

But they are, the court case for the baker in CO, and the photographer in WA

Side: Punishment
flewk(1193) Disputed
1 point

We punish crimes, not groups of people. At least that is how it works in most democratic states.

Side: No Punishment
Astac(242) Clarified
1 point

Right, that is how it is supposed to work, but the American left is punishing all Christians

Side: Punishment
1 point

I agree with you on this. The rules need to apply to everyone.

Side: Punishment
Jace(5222) Clarified
1 point

In what way do you think the rules do not apply equally in this context?

Side: Punishment
3 points

1. Hatred of gays is NOT an intrinsic tenant of most people's interpretation of Christianity. Many Christians refuse to accept that attitude.

2. The cake itself would arguably violate discrimination laws. While I doubt the baker would get in trouble for it, its understandable that they wouldn't want to do it.

3. They offered to actually bake the cake and give the icing to the customer to finish it. They weren't refusing service, just refusing to complete the thing.

No punishment necessary.

Side: No Punishment
Astac(242) Disputed
1 point

No one hates gays as there is no gay people, no such thing as a gay person. Now you do have men who choose to engage in sex with other men and boys (like the homosexual priests), these are not gay people, these are people born straight but choose to engage in homosexual acts .

Side: Punishment
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Stop hating people who engage in gay sex.

Oh, and what happened to lesbians. They don't exist either?

Side: No Punishment
1 point

No one hates gays

You clearly do ("so get back in the closet").

as there is no gay people

Are no gay people, which, of course, is still wrong, as the fact that there are people with homosexual attractions proves there are gay people (and thus multiple gay persons).

Now you do have men who choose to engage in sex with other men

If those men are attracted to other men, they are homosexual (meaning attracted to members of the same sex). It is amazing that you accuse others of grasping at straws while saying stuff like this.

these are people born straight but choose to engage in homosexual acts .

You have absolutely no evidence to back up your claim that they were not actually attracted to those they had sex with.

Side: No Punishment
2 points

I think the baker should be punished for not providing the service she seemed to provide. If we are going to punish bakers for not making cakes for gays, we need to honor the opposite scenario.

But, I don't think she will be punished at all. She is claiming that she would have made the cake close enough to what the customer wanted, and that will be enough to avoid legal problems since she didn't discriminate against the person, but did discriminate against the work she was being asked to do.

Side: No Punishment
1 point

Yeah, I'm not sure why someone would walk into that bakery knowingly and ask for that. Open and shut case.

Side: No Punishment
1 point

Right, but where can someone go to get that cake? Gays can go get their cakes wherever they want.

Side: No Punishment
Astac(242) Disputed
1 point

Then why did two homosexuals go into a Christian bakery and do the same.

Side: Punishment
2 points

Have you seen the sign, "We retain the right to refuse service to anyone?"

Side: No Punishment
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Yes. I saw it hanging in the other Colorado bakery that didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding. Their sign was worthless.

Side: Punishment
Astac(242) Disputed
1 point

I would not say that, it can always be enforced by force if needed

Side: No Punishment

No punishment should be brought upon the baker. This, in my view, doesn't seem to warrant discrimination. In fact, they are asking a baker to make a cake that has a discriminatory message on it. If you were a baker would you make a cake like this? Or a cake that crosses out African-Americans? Or crosses out Native Americans? I wouldn't, it'd be too uncomfortable.

Side: No Punishment
1 point

When we judge a situation, we should try and use due process. Actus reus and mens rea.

For a bakery to refuse service to all gay people, that is an act of discrimination against gay people. The motive would be based on the Christian's belief that all gay people are sinners.

For a bakery to refuse service to hate speech, that is an act of discrimination against "haters". The motive for this specific situation as indicated by the owner: "We never refuse service. But we did feel it was not right for us to present hateful words or images about human beings."

Homosexuals are/will be classified as a protected group under the Civil Rights Act. I don't think haters ever will.

Side: No Punishment
Astac(242) Clarified
1 point

That will be an act of war, so you would see the country go to armed conflict so you can allow the homosexuals to molest young boys

Side: Punishment
flewk(1193) Disputed
1 point

I am not sure why you think gay people are all pedophiles who favor boys.

I have a feeling you think only men are gay.

I guess you probably think allowing interracial marriages was an act of war too.

Side: Punishment

In this case, the person asking for the special cake was being smart-alecky along with being bigoted.

Side: No Punishment
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Just because they asked for something they thought would be denied doesn't make them smart-alecky. It was the guys belief system and it doesn't affect the baker, so she is in the same position as the first baker.

Side: Punishment
1 point

A Colorado Appeals Court just ruled this week that a bakery cannot refuse service to a Gay couple dude to their anti-discrimination law.

Side: No Punishment