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Debate Info

20
16
Troll Mentalcase
Debate Score:36
Arguments:40
Total Votes:36
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 Troll (15)
 
 Mentalcase (13)

Debate Creator

AveSatanas(4426) pic



NowaSaint: Troll or mentalcase?

He posted a debate asking the question:

"If God wants me in Hell, why am I not there yet?"


My response was:
"Good Question"


Thats it. 

Heres his response:

"Please read my reply though I banned you due to your tendency to be profane and vulgar in speech. I don't want to see any of that from you here.

Yes, it is a good question and there is one correct answer: God does not want you in Hell or you would be there now, God wants you to be forgiven.

You can't be forgiven if you will not stop opposing God, you can't be forgiven if you will not believe He took your sins on Himself and died for you, in your place, so that you can have life with Him, through Him, by Him as He is risen from the dead offering forgiveness to all who will turn against their sins and believe on Him.

You are not burning in Hell now because God is showing you mercy. He will not show you mercy forever if you will not repent of your sins and trust in the Savior and receive Him by faith as He is, the Living God. Believe, ask God in Jesus' name to save you from Hell, receive Jesus by faith as your Savior and you will be saved."


Did i use profanity? No.

If it was a good question then why ban me?


Here was Bronto's response:

"Are you telling me that you are the fulfillment of Matthew 13:38-39 ? If you are then I obviously should oppose you at all costs"

While clearly a tongue in cheek jab this isnt profane in any way shape or form. He is also a fellow christian and was promptly banned (as every single person on this debate was). 


So i ask, is Fromwith- I mean, Saintno-, I mean, NowASaint a troll? Or just totally mental with the cognitive faculties and mental fortitude of a child? 

Troll

Side Score: 20
VS.

Mentalcase

Side Score: 16
2 points

Troll all the way. Ultimately he lives to issue bans and then taunt folks after he banned them. Classic troll.

Additionally, I've seen evidence in the past he is multiple avatars on this site, which means he is managing different personas to maximize his trollness. That's not a mental case, unless the mere act of being a troll qualifies as that.

Side: Troll
Amarel(4987) Clarified
1 point

Who else do you expect him to be. ?

Side: Troll
Grenache(6103) Clarified
1 point

I've seen FromWithin and SaintNow repost each other's comments in the first person. Someone else on this site first pointed it out to me and I've noticed it since as well.

And I think it's interesting that although they're both religious conservatives each is centered on a specific single issue - FromWithin's being abortion and SaintNow's being Evangelical Christianity. It's like they were designed to be voices for those issues. Yet every now and then the puppetmaster screws up and posts under the wrong one.

Side: Troll

I think this may add some clarity to my claims.

Excerpt from article-

"What is galling is that the time they spend with you is recorded as their service hours in a booklet."

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/188929/logical-fallacies-jws-use-win-debates

Side: Troll

Considering that he can operate a computer, connect it to the Internet and use this website, I doubt what he exhibits here can be his normal level of intellect.

Side: Troll

Also, anything you've said here is nothing. I'd say you are ignorant on the matter, but since you know that the 3 are the same person, I'm just going with that you found it to be too unreasonably used against you.

Side: Troll
AveSatanas(4426) Clarified
2 points

The real point of the debate was to show the absurdity of the ban i recieved and ask what other people think. Personally i conclude hes a troll. Theres no way he isnt. But what doesnt add up is why ban me and then go on to answer my question? Hes done it many times where i post an argument, and youd think he would ban me specifically to avoid having to counter my argument, but then he actually does make a counterargument. Why bother if im banned? Is it to give himself the satisfaction of having the last word? I really dont know.

Side: Troll

I personally am wondering if Saint may be a Jehovah's Witness. I've had many debates with them. Saint used their terminology, claims and tactics.

In one of Saint's debates I was banned for claiming his claims were "Phariseeism". He then(after banning me), responded to me many times. If he had not had multiple responses I would not have done this:

I started my own thread stating that Saint was wrong, practicing Phariseeism, and was a possible heretic for rejecting the Biblical concept of being "saved by grace". (Of course JWs have a different version of Christ, per their version of the Bible that leaves out key verses that say or insinuate that Christ is "God". They claim he is something like a demi-god.) Is Saint a JW? I can't definitively say yes, but I do think so.

The reason I called him out on my own thread was that if "saved by grace" ever breaks down, no one can be saved, because in Christian eschatology God knows all of your thoughts, intentions, motives, etc, which simply lumps all humans into a club called "sinners" in his sight. He was proposing that you must work your way into Heaven or be "good", claiming that I was not acting "good/godly". Of course Baptists, Methodists, the Catholic Church, etc all believe in being saved by grace, and that God's love is unconditional to those who seek and accept Christ through faith. I provided the verses to counter his claim. He began accusing me of being an ungodly heratic, which is about the only way to get on my bad side(I'm not a real serious person in real life). If an Atheist gets angry being told "you are going to hell", imagine being a believer who is told this. He began to calm down once I pointed out times that he had sinned(according to the Bible) in debates and it became more cordial because it quickly became apparent that he needed "grace" based on his own behavior.

Christians offer the hope of Christ, not some mutated version of that hope.

By Saint's claims, no one could be saved, and your goodness would be your only way, which would defeat the entire point of the cross and all of the verses that I chose to use in the debate.

Side: Troll
NowASaint(1388) Clarified
1 point

You must be retarded, go to my waterfall and see what I actually said vs your insane ideas you invent by your own imagination and try to put in my mouth.

You are either as dumb as a rock and a bold faced liar or just plain dumb as a rock.

Side: Troll
1 point

Ut oh. 2 Corinthians. Love is not rude. Satan? over here. We got one. We found a legalist that thinks he can do it with his own righteousness which means you've fallen from grace according to the Bible.

Side: Troll

Here is the debate I had with Saint.

http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/ Why NowASaintisincorrectonhisherassessmentPhariseeismaccordingtotheBible

As for AveSatanas, I gave him up votes because despite many disagreements, he looks to be correct on this point. Blocking people is okay. But blocking "anyone" that opposes your position is not cordial or realistic debate behavior. I personally came here to debate and have allowed people to take me head-on concerning the hardest topics imaginable. To me that is what debate is about, having the stones to face your opposition on an equal floor with no serious animosity afterwards.

I use terms like "the atheist nothing monster", but if you take that personally, have no sense of humor, or get brutally mad, perhaps you should stick to any topic that isn't religion or politics.

Side: Troll
1 point

If he is here and able to show us a logical explanation for something so small then he cant be as retarded as he says he is.

Side: Troll
1 point

It's funny how he tries to justify his bans. My answer to that same debate:

Because life is a challenge. And how we approach the challenge defines who we are and what we can be, and we are judged accordingly.

No cursing, no personal attacks, but he bans then keeps commenting even 2 days later when he knows I can't respond. The very nature of a coward or a troll, maybe both.

Side: Troll
outlaw60(15500) Disputed
1 point

Well Well isn't you Progressives that are in the mode of banning ? We can start with the 1st and 2nd Amendment if you like !

Side: Mentalcase
Mint_tea(4098) Disputed
1 point

As I've never banned anyone and I'm not Progressive, I wouldn't know. Are you calling SaintNow a Progressive? Interesting.

Side: Troll
1 point

Jesus said if I follow Him, He would make me a fisher of men...I guess you can call that trolling....too bad most of the fish in this pond are hopelessly dead in their sins, determined to remain separated from God forever.

Side: Troll
sylynn(626) Disputed
2 points

You claim the fish in this pond are hopelessly dead. A smart fisherman knows to go where the fish are alive and biting.

Side: Mentalcase
NowASaint(1388) Clarified
1 point

It's true, most of the fish in this pond are dead in their sins and enjoying their polluted waters of dying and don't care that they are separated from God by their sins and on their way to Hell. That's why I don't spend much time reading your stuff of the stuff of others here, it's just all full of dying and it's not for me.

Side: Troll
Mint_tea(4098) Disputed
1 point

Well. Since you've decided, in your petty wisdom, to post multiple paragraphs of nonsense in a debate you know you've banned me from, I'll go ahead and post my answer here.

So you are keeping yourself out of Hell by taking the challenge of life like taking a bull by it's horns?

I'm keeping myself out of hell by being the best person I can be. By trying to live my life through Jesus's example and God's rule.

So how come you can't get yourself out of dying if you are up to the challenge of life to keep yourself out of Hell?

The only constant and guarantee in life is death. Trying to get myself out of death would be fruitless and pointless. The challenges that life gives and how one overcomes them is the basis for where you will end up in the afterlife.

You know why you are banned, don't you?

I'm banned because you are a coward. You continue to talk to someone, even days after you ban them, when you know they can't respond because you can't fight what they bring to the table. It's the equivalent of binding and gagging someone so you can lord over them, ranting and preaching your side because you are too full of pride and arrogance to listen to another.

Now perhaps I'm being too mean and judging too much. Fair enough. I'll leave this final remark then drop the topic. You don't debate, you preach. You should find your own forum to do that, then maybe you can find people who will listen to you with the fervor you seem to want.

Side: Mentalcase
NowASaint(1388) Clarified
1 point

I simply agree with God. You think you can make God be and say whatever you want, rather than take Him at His word. You're losing. You need to be saved or all is lost for you. You're on your way to the fire of Hell which your witchy friends will tell you is either non-existent or not that bad.

Side: Troll
NowASaint(1388) Clarified
1 point

Oh boo hoo. If you don't want to get banned from my discussions, don't act stupid and be a jerk.

Side: Troll
NowASaint(1388) Clarified
1 point

Quit preaching. The Bible says women are not supposed to be preachers.

Side: Troll
3 points

In the one interaction I recall having with them, they accused me of harassment when I invited them to engage in civil, rational discussion with me. I think that statement pretty much speaks for itself.

Side: Mentalcase
1 point

You proved NowASaint completely correct with your vulgarity and abuse in all your posts including this debate alone.

You are a bully and he is banning you for that, not for your post of 'good question'.

Side: Mentalcase