CreateDebate


Debate Info

Debate Score:72
Arguments:18
Total Votes:73
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Obama Announces Support for Same-Sex Marriage. (18)

Debate Creator

Apollo(1606) pic



Obama Announces Support for Same-Sex Marriage.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/10/us/politics/obama-says-same-sex-marriage-should-be-legal.html 

Obama 2012.

 

Do you agree? Was it political? Genuine? Politically helpful?

Add New Argument
4 points

Obama's like a political wizard, and unfortunately it keeps going over most people's head.

1. Biden comes out 100% for gay rights, marriage, etc, you know, the logical and fair position though politically dangerous because old people who are afraid of everything but MASH and Love Boat vote in hordes and young people who don't give a shit what two people do in bed are busy getting high and not voting.

2. The administration stays vague, despite that its been pretty obvious the administration is pro-gay marriage but politically not willing to take a difinitive stand.

3. All the time pundits on both sides talk about point 2, that politically its dumb to take a side. That not taking a side publically would be the smart political move. That Obama is a politician and will take the politically-smart on-the-fence position. "Get off the fence! Stop being political!" they scream.

4. To not be political, he comes out pro-gay marriage. Says what he really thinks.

5. A day after pundits say "he's political he'll stay on the fence" they look retarded saying "he's being political by making a choice."

For like the 50th time exposing the double standard he's held to. Make a choice "Political!" don't make a choice "Political!"

Idealy this would force people to back or not back his decisions based on the merits of them instead of guesses of what the political implications for him were or are in making the decision.

Unfortunately, as mentioned this is over most people's heads.

Yesterday the same who said "He won't say, he's being political!" will today say "He said, he's being political!" and most will agree, because most people are idiots.

Yesterday the same who said "He won't say, he's being political!" will today say "He said, he's being political!" and most will agree, because most people are idiots.

I agree criticizing him for making a decision the same way they criticize him for staying on the fence is stupid. At the same time, he is a politician. The politician, at the moment. Everything he does and says is political, and if it isn't, you can bet the media will make it out to be. So while I don't think he deserves the criticism for flip-flopping, I do think every action he makes is a calculated political move (if he's smart).

But that cancels out this:

4. To not be political, he comes out pro-gay marriage. Says what he really thinks.

As he is a politician with his every move political, I don't think any of us have any idea what he really thinks. I think we have an idea of what he wants us to think he thinks, but like all politics it's probably just a sham to garner votes.

2 points

Good for him. I guess after everyone else in his administration stress how they're in support for gay marriage it would only make sense to do the same thing. To deviate from his administration is to show that they're not getting along... not the best idea. So good for him, as I said, he's doing what he should have done a while ago... and that's not be a homophobe (his views have evolved, as he says).

Now, what does this mean, exactly? Nothing.

As for Obama, I believe his actions are more important. As a civil libertarian, gay marriage is good. He hasn't done anything for gay marriage, so that's useless. He repealed Don't Ask, Don't Tell, which is alright.

But as a civil Libertarian, I can not forget how he has shut down the marijuana dispensaries in California and how he has authorized the ability for his administration to detain and torture American citizens without due process.

But yeah, maybe he can get a few civil libertarians to think "omg, he loves freedom, he supports gay marriage!!!" But most of us who cherish liberty will nevar forget what he has done to crush it under his big government boot. Hitler was fine with gays, we don't accept the horrors he's done just because he tolerated a certain minority group. Obama isn't Hitler, but my point is that SAYING you support gay marriage while eliminating the civil rights of the rest of the citizens isn't something to celebrate over. It's something to shake our head to.

2 points

Obama's just afraid of Gary Johnson. That's where this whole Gay marriage issue with him came from. First it was more from Ron Paul but not as direct as Johnson's whole-fisted support for Gay Rights, as well as being named ACLU's top candidate in the defense of Civil Liberties. Now I think I sense a little pressure. Obama's just not going to be able to hold the people who are Left-leaning purely because of the social issues. Everyone on the right is afraid of Johnson spoiling the election for the GOP, but honestly at the very least he'll take as many votes from both. Unless of course Obama is going to pull through in a big way the next six months. But the DEA and the president have both made statements that the Drug War is working, and if anything they'll only increase the severity. Obama even said something about Nationwide drug testing laws. I'm expecting the same kind of avoidance and politicking we got in his 2008 campaign, that we got in his first term, and people will not put up with it again. People are too upset and displeased with this crap. Or maybe they'll all be so disillusioned nobody votes. Hahah. What if absolutely no one showed up one year? I know obviously somebody would buy votes for a candidate or whatever but just imagine. Isn't everyone else feeling that sick on election day?

5 points

+1

5 points

+1

1 point

Of course he would support same sex marriage. Everyone thinks he is a "Christian". If he was a Christian then he would have opposed same sex marriage then rather support it because real and true Christians would never support gay marriage.

BenWalters(1513) Disputed
3 points

A true Christian would see past the bullshit in the bible, see past the Old Testament calls for violence, and follow the message of Jesus Christ: the defining aspect of a Christian. Jesus said to love one another, to be good people, to help people who need it, not to judge others, to do as to others as you wish to be done unto you.

That is the message of Jesus Christ, who you profess to follow. Opposing same-sex marriage is the complete opposite of his teachings.

He also said to ignore the Old Testament, did he not? That's why you are allowed to eat shellfish, get tatoos, work on the Sabbath, why you do not force women to marry their rapists, why you do not sell your daughters as slaves, why you can wear clothes made from two materials.

Srom(12203) Disputed
1 point

A true Christian would see past the bullshit in the bible, see past the Old Testament calls for violence, and follow the message of Jesus Christ: the defining aspect of a Christian. Jesus said to love one another, to be good people, to help people who need it, not to judge others, to do as to others as you wish to be done unto you.

Actually a true Christian would follow the Bible (only the New Testament ways).

He also said to ignore the Old Testament, did he not? That's why you are allowed to eat shellfish, get tatoos, work on the Sabbath, why you do not force women to marry their rapists, why you do not sell your daughters as slaves, why you can wear clothes made from two materials.

He abolished those rules. I still don't eat shellfish or shrimp, my parents don't work on the Sabbath, no sells slaves in the US. Everyone is free, I still follow some of the Ten Commandments.

While I am a devout Atheist, this is undeniably true. "God's" word says in the bible that homosexuals should be stoned to death. A true Christian would never support any sort of homosexual rights. Therefor, this means that Obama is flaky in his ideals.

2 points

It means that Obama is inconsistent in both his religious and political views.

He is a politician. Not a thinker.

RudeRebel(45) Disputed
1 point

Well... I'm a wizard, and the statement is fundamentally false. If we take "true" by its literal meaning, true Christians know legislating Christianity as law defeats the purpose of being Christian, the faith and free will part. What politicians are afraid of are the false zealots, people who have missed the point, and really a little less than half the voters. Just trying to avoid generalization, I'm sure there are plenty of Christians that don't care what WE do in our own beds, let's just not attribute to it the blame that really belongs to the average American's environment, which is essentially the basis for uninformed views like that: family, friends, etc.

1 point

Political ploy?

But, then again, since America is apparently split half and half, and most states do not support it and have in fact laws banning same-sex marriage... I wonder if it is.

But, then again, I think it being so close to voting, it could be, maybe to gain some non-voters.

Ugh. -.-

Either way, I hope he truly "supports" his support.

When is government going to stop interfering with marriage, government has no authority to regulate marriage, marriage is an private issue concerning only individuals and couples.

1 point

Being gay is basically a disease, a disorder. Allowing same-sex marriage is the same as allowing two sick people to marry just because they are sick.

In the wild, in nature, as animals, gays would go extinct because they would not have any offspring. We, humans, among ourselves, should control it ourselves. They may live their lives as they want but it should be made impossible for them to have children of their own, I mean children by blood, at least.

Honestly, it does not take much mental capacity to figure out something as simple as this.

iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
2 points

Holy shit, where to start.

Being gay is basically a disease, a disorder

Being gay is no more a disease than having green eyes or yellow hair.

Allowing same-sex marriage is the same as allowing two sick people to marry just because they are sick.

Are you saying sick people should not be allowed to marry just because they are sick?

In the wild, in nature, as animals, gays would go extinct because they would not have any offspring.

... there are gay animals >_<

We, humans, among ourselves, should control it ourselves.

What makes you think gay people are not controlling themselves? What makes you think straight people are demonstrating a higher level of control?

They may live their lives as they want but it should be made impossible for them to have children of their own, I mean children by blood, at least.

Um... You seem confused here either about what gay sex would entail, or how children would be produced.

Honestly, it does not take much mental capacity to figure out something as simple as this.

It does not, true. However, you seem to have managed to miss it entirely.

The President yesterday was jubilant that the Supreme Court declared that Gay Marriage is the law of the land. The President is sincere.