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Debate Info

13
25
Agree Disagree
Debate Score:38
Arguments:34
Total Votes:43
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Argument Ratio

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 Agree (8)
 
 Disagree (21)

Debate Creator

Haytham(28) pic



Order and peace are more important than freedom

Agree

Side Score: 13
VS.

Disagree

Side Score: 25
3 points

Living in a society with a degree of relative order whilst labouring under the misapprehension that we are truly free is as good as it gets.

As for peace, well that fantasy exists only in fairy tales.

Go pretty much anywhere in the world and, to a greater or lesser degree you'll find people knocking seven bells out of each other.

Side: Agree
MasterYoda(224) Disputed
1 point

Wrong you are, young Antrim. The world is as it is, because most people accept the world as it is rather than striving to make it better.

Side: Disagree
Antrim(1287) Disputed
1 point

Well now, aren't you the grown up little ideologist who strives to save the world with his own brand of 2 cent philosophy.

The world has been full of puffed up egotists like you who claim they;- 'can make a difference', when their only aim is, like most pompous, self serving megalomaniacs, to manipulate people and satisfy their craving for power and money.

I know what I've done to improve and enrich the society in which I live.

No sanctimonious drivel that phonies such as you regularly spew out from the safe anonymity of their computer room could ever diminish that.

I also know that someone like you, or any other piece of shit like you, could ever come close to achieving what I did for well for over 30 years through the endless terrorist threats on my life, both at home and my business whilst dodging the bombs and bullets of the ' so called Irish Republican Army.

I had sufficient wherewithal to relocate my business and family to a safer and more politically stable location but there were over 130 people and their families depending on my company continuing in business in Northern Ireland, so I stayed put.

These employees stayed with me through thick and thin and I wasn't going to abandon them.

Side: Agree
1 point

Depends in what proportions, id gladly sacrifice some of my freedom to have order and peace

Side: Agree
AlofRI(3294) Clarified
2 points

How about the right (freedom) to bear arms? We have more gun deaths than any country that has reasonable, or even UN-reasonable gun laws. That is NOT peace to those that are in danger from, for instance, assault weapons.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for losing my guns, but, I AM for reasonable restrictions ... in the name of peace and order. (Along with 80+% of American people).

Side: Agree
cruzaders(325) Clarified
1 point

The numbers of death in the us by gunshots are a lot too high we agree on that, but its normal that it is hard to put restrictions/ ban guns since they have been allowed in the US for several hundred years

I live in France where no guns are allowed, so what happens is hat its only the crimonals who have guns; americans should think of that as well

Side: Agree
Amarel(5669) Disputed
-1 points

The vast vast majority of gun deaths are from people who are already restricted from owning guns, or from suicide. Of those murderers who already can’t legally own guns, very very few of them murder with assault style weapons. Of those that murder with assault style weapons, none of them are actually assault weapons which have an auto or 3 round burst function.

What we need is effective enforcement. Law makers could help on this front.

Also, gun crimes are far higher in the US than in many other countries. But so are all crime rates.

Side: Disagree
3 points

Hello H:

Before we came along, order was the rule.. We lived under the boot for 1,000's of years and little changed.. Then we discovered freedom, and changed the world in a couple hundred years..

If we weren't free, would the Wright brothers have flown, would Edison invent, would Ford make cars? Nahhh..

excon

Side: Disagree
outlaw60(15368) Disputed
1 point

Super Stupid your statement is just to rich with hypocrisy that it cannot be bypassed!

Airplanes burn fossil fuel and are a source of the Global Warming Hoax !

Wright Brothers have to be blamed for their freedom to fly

Thomas Edison - U.S. Patent 0,251,539 – Electric Lamp

Progressives despise electricity being it takes fossil fuel to generate it.

Thomas Edison must be added to the list of blame for the Global Warming Hoax !

Henry Ford - His introduction of the Model T automobile revolutionized transportation and American industry.

Progressives despise fossil fuel so one more to add to the blame list for the Global Warming Hoax !

Henry Ford was a Democrat and he revolutionized American industry.

Super Stupid you Progressives hate American industry and fossil fuel but out of the other side of your confused mouth you praise the freedom of American industry and the introduction of burning fossil fuel.

Side: Agree
1 point

Airplanes burn fossil fuel and are a source of the Global Warming Hoax !

Milk comes from cows and is a source of the Great Cheese Hoax!

Side: Disagree
1 point

Freedom is a human right that cannot be compromised. Without freedom, humans just can't function well.

Side: Disagree
Haytham(28) Disputed
1 point

Just the opposite, if humans where allowed total freedom the world would collapse as we know it. If humans where to, let's say, be entirely controlled and manipulated remotely by a hypothetical super intelligent quantum mechanical AI computer with 10 trillion times more computing power than every intelligence on earth combined then they would behave much more productively and efficiently.

Order by intelligent control leads to peace and productivity, freedom leads to a fruitless tug of war between individuals over resources and ideologies.

Side: Agree
Jace(5222) Disputed
1 point

What is freedom? Where does the human right to it come from?

Side: Agree

Sadly you almost quoted Big Brother from Orwell's 1984 word for word.

"War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength."

-Big Brother

George Orwell's "1984"

Bronto: Think responsibly my friends

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/153313-nineteen-eighty-four

Side: Disagree
1 point

Order should be enforced to the extent that it begets a peace that promotes freedom. These things need not be at odds, so long as freedom is held as a higher value.

Side: Disagree
1 point

Order should be enforced to the extent that it begets a peace that promotes freedom

But this contradicts entirely your belief that we should sell people guns as a response to criminality. By doing that we enforce mayhem rather than order.

Side: Agree
MasterYoda(224) Disputed
1 point

In order to have a free nation, take away the freedom to infringe upon other's freedoms you must.

Side: Disagree
Amarel(5669) Clarified
1 point

I don’t believe guns should be sold “in response to criminality”. I believe guns should be sold to legal buyers, or non-criminals. Since legal gun owners aren’t really the problem, I don’t know why they should bother you.

Side: Agree
1 point

By doing that we enforce mayhem rather than order.

False. It makes criminals think twice about robbing, raping, and killing. This in turn means the police have less crimes to spread resources to.

Side: Disagree

Order and peace have nothing to do with “Freedom”. You are making an interpretation away from fact. Freedom means a lack of both self-value, plus any set value by a demand. Not just demanded value as insisted by the interpretation. This is the mistake generated for granting slaves impunity and liberty to detention status as a P.O.W. status. What you are trying to say is that Liberty requires both Order and Peace to insure the freedom of self-value.

Publicly saying you want freedom is like saying you are ill to give up your self-value. I will spare the lecture past this point on the Basic principle of freedom.

Side: Disagree
Haytham(28) Disputed
1 point

This is incoherent psycho-babble. What are you, an over-intoxicated booze bellied drunkard gone nilly? Nothing you just said had anything to do with what I said, you need to put down whatever shite you're drinking and substitute it for a cognitive enhancement supplement.

Side: Agree
1 point

What does one have without freedom? The answer is nothing. Anyone who would sacrifice freedom for safety and order deserve neither.

Side: Disagree
1 point

I rather have freedom ;)

Side: Disagree
1 point

Yeah, screw that. You better believe I'll take chaos over order any day of the fucking week if I have to, if the alternative means I have to bend over for some asshole telling me what to think, say, worship, fuck, or anything else that isn't their goddamn business. I don't want that, for me, my kids, or anybody, and I'll pick up a rifle to prevent that kind of society from taking hold, happily.

Side: Disagree
1 point

I may accept order but my desire is freedom, and the former has its value to me only with respect to how much of the latter it can give me. Order on its own is meaningless to me. And as for peace, there is no such thing and it doesn't bear consideration.

Side: Disagree
Amarel(5669) Clarified
1 point

If there is no such thing as peace, what do you suppose others are referring to?

Side: Agree
Jace(5222) Clarified
1 point

The idea of it. Like a unicorn (a very abstract, non-concrete unicorn), you can discuss peace as though it exists but that doesn't mean it actually exists.

Side: Agree
1 point

Obviously we need a balance between control and freedom, taking either to the extreme doesn't work in the best interests of the people. I personally err towards freedom because it seems easier to go wrong through overbearing domination than through a laissez-faire approach.

Side: Disagree