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Debate Score:43
Arguments:36
Total Votes:49
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 Pedophiles say they are born that way and have no choice of who they are. Hmmmmmmm... (28)

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Pedophiles say they are born that way and have no choice of who they are. Hmmmmmmm...

Should we use the same logic of LGBT groups to why they are who they are and having no choice, and add Pedophilia to that list (as long as they do not act upon their attractions to children)?
Should this fixation on different sexual orientations keep going until it uses up the entire alphabet? With this slippery slope of political correctness towards different sexual orientations, should we add a "P" to their label?

Before you start screaming that Pedophilia is against the law and that I am trying to compare it to homosexuality...DON'T because I am not!

Now for all the people who say Gay men would not have relationships with women because they are born with no attraction for them, are you saying pedophiles could never have a relationship with adults because they are supposedly born with attractions for children?
You can't use the argument that Gays are born Gay and therefore have no choice in who they are, but then deny what Pedophiles say about being born that way and having no choice to who they are.
How can we say that Homosexuality is a natural sexual orientation, but Pedophilia is not. Who are these political correct thought police that will tell us all which sexual orientations are normal and which are not?

You will say it is obvious that men should not have sex with children (and I agree), but you attack people who believe Homosexuality is obviously not normal and not the way our bodies are designed.

Forget about the fact that Pedophiles can not act on their attractions because it's against the law. This debate is not about pedophilia. It's about explaining why so many of the LGBT excuses for who they are and why they should be able to change our nation's bathroom laws, marriage laws, etc. etc. does not hold water.

If you are going to say that all these different sexual orientations are being born that way and therefore havng no choice, then you must allow Pedophiles the same excuse. Where does it end?

Who gets to pick and choose what group gets the right to indoctrinate our children? I will never again say a peep about LGBT groups as soon as they stop trying to force their agendas against other's will. Parents DO NOT want our children indoctrinated with controversial subjects such as LGBT issues. Churches do not want to be told to follow the LGBT doctrine and ignore what the Bibe actually says. 
In my opinion, we should treat every person with respect and dignity, but we should not be trying to tell our children that all these unnatural sexual orientations are normal. This opens the door to the slippery slope of political correctness as we are seeing being pushed by the Democrat Party and their LGBT base.

Children will decide for themselves when they are mature enough to handle it.

I do not care what anyone does in their own lives. What I care about is stopping these activists from pushing their agendas into our schools, and having the arrogance to be teaching our children the political correct way of thinking against the parent's will.
-FromWithin
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3 points

Before you start screaming that Pedophilia is against the law and that I am trying to compare it to homosexuality...DON'T because I am not!

You are. For a guy who hates deception you sure do love to use it. And for a guy who loves common sense you sure do hate to use it.

2 points

So tell us Cartman, what is your logic behind using your sexual organ to orgasm with someone of the same sex (which is absolutely counterproductive and pointless logically), and why do you think molesting kids is okay?

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

I never said molesting kids was ok. Trying to have orgasms with someone you are not attracted to is counter productive. Orgasms give pleasure and help make life worth living. It is silly to make sex only about having children.

3 points

Paedophilia cannot be compared with homosexuality for the simple reason that children are more vulnerable and not developed like full grown men and women are. They are impressionable - physically and mentally weaker, so cannot make good judgement and are less likely to be able to get out of situations they're not comfortable with.

Now for all the people who say Gay men would not have relationships with women because they are born with no attraction for them, are you saying paedophiles could never have a relationship with adults because they are supposedly born with attractions for children?

This is nonsensical. It's not physically impossible for gay men/women to have a relationship with the opposite gender. That's not the point. It's about being attracted to the same gender, so they don't want to be in a relationship with the opposite.

The same goes for paedophiles. They're not interested in adults, but many will suppress their urges and spend their lives with one so that they can become a functioning and "normal" member of society.

I don't have sympathy for paedophiles who act on their urges and abuse/molest children, but you cannot tell me that you do not feel sorry for the ones who spend their entire lives fighting what they've been born with in order to be good people. It's a really tragic thing, and I have respect for those people who attempt to change themselves.

daver(1771) Clarified
1 point

I've understood that gay people are simply born with a sexual orientation that does not match their physical gender. As I understand it this has both genetic and hormonal causes which occur during gestation.

I have thought pedophilia to be a different condition, in that it's causes are rooted in developmental abnormalities after birth. Mainly childhood trauma connected to abuse.

Are you saying that pedophiles are born that way?

NicolasCage(506) Clarified
1 point

I've understood that gay people are simply born with a sexual orientation that does not match their physical gender.

"does not match their physical gender"? This implies there is a "right" way to be orientated, and that homosexuals have been programmed incorrectly. Perhaps you didn't mean it like that.

Are you saying that pedophiles are born that way?

Many are, yes. Like you said, it's often caused due to trauma and upbringing (the environmental factors), however the chain of events leading to paedophilia may very well begin at birth.

People are born lots of different ways. Some act on it and some fight against it. If you want to molest kids, resist. If you want to have sex with a man when you are a man, resist. If you are an alcoholic, resist. Simple logic.

2 points

My only question is this: if you're a man who wants to have sex with a man, why do you have to resist? It is obvious to me why you should resist molesting children, it hurts them, and I see why you think people should resist drinking if it hurts themselves. But who's hurt when two consenting men have sex?

1 point

I could not agree more. Men should not have to resist wanting to have sex with another man. There is nothing wrong with being homosexual, but that's another debate in it's self.

The simple logic you just spelled out is WAY beyond the intellect of Progressives.

When you say resist something, they read your words and say uhhhh, duhhhhh, what is he saying?

Is he saying we should not constantly act on every urge? Is he saying we actually have a choice in who we have sex with?

Nahhhhh, he can't be suggesting such a thing. That's too old fashioned to say people have a say in the actions they take.

That would be like saying a drug addict had a choice the first time he took illegal drugs.

That would be like telling the alcoholic that it was not a disease that made him drink too much.

Progressive Democrats want us to believe we are like animals whereby we have no accountabulity or culpability for our choices in life.

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

You simultaneously hold the belief that if you tell someone to resist something they will resist it and that if you make something a law they will not follow it. Please think about that.

1 point

My only question is this: if you're a man who wants to have sex with a man, why do you have to resist? It is obvious to me why you should resist molesting children, it hurts them, and I see why you think people should resist drinking if it hurts themselves. But who's hurt when two consenting men have sex?

2 points

If you think it is a good idea to treat everybody with dignity why don't you actually try it?

2 points

It's a simple distinction. Consent. Consenting adults can have a homosexual relationship because they both are fully grown and aware of what they're doing and legally responsible. Children cannot consent. They are not fully grown, can't fully understand what they are doing, and are not legally responsible.

No highlights were provided in this post by maggot.

It's too boring to read his rants like that.

1 point

Before you start screaming that Pedophilia is against the law and that I am trying to compare it to homosexuality...DON'T because I am not!

The very next sentence after this begins your comparison of the two. You're a liar.

Now for all the people who say Gay men would not have relationships with women because they are born with no attraction for them, are you saying pedophiles could never have a relationship with adults because they are supposedly born with attractions for children?

Defending one idea does not force the defense of the other. Just because I agree someone may be born gay does not mean I agree that someone could be born a pedophile.

You can't use the argument that Gays are born Gay and therefore have no choice in who they are, but then deny what Pedophiles say about being born that way and having no choice to who they are.

Using this logic if I say males are born male, I must therefore accept pedophiles are born pedophiles? That makes no sense.

How can we say that Homosexuality is a natural sexual orientation, but Pedophilia is not

Do you not understand sexual orientation and how pedophilia cannot be one?

but you attack people who believe Homosexuality is obviously not normal and not the way our bodies are designed.

I reject the notion our bodies were designed.

If you are going to say that all these different sexual orientations are being born that way and therefore having no choice, then you must allow Pedophiles the same excuse.

No, I don't have to allow the same excuse. A man who is attracted to a woman is an example of sexual orientation, a man to a man is another, and a woman to a woman - another. Sexual orientation does not correspond with age.

Who gets to pick and choose what group gets the right to indoctrinate our children?

The parents get to as proven by those who carelessly indoctrinate their children in religion.

I will never again say a peep about LGBT groups as soon as they stop trying to force their agendas against other's will.

No one is forcing it on anyone else. Give one example of someone being forced into a homosexual relationship.

Parents DO NOT want our children indoctrinated with controversial subjects such as LGBT issues.

As a parent I agree I do not wish my child to be indoctrinated with controversial subjects, but LGBT issues is not one of those subjects; religion is.

Churches do not want to be told to follow the LGBT doctrine and ignore what the Bible actually says.

And they're not being told to, so what's your point?

In my opinion, we should treat every person with respect and dignity, but we should not be trying to tell our children that all these unnatural sexual orientations are normal.

You can't have it both ways.

Children will decide for themselves when they are mature enough to handle it.

How can you believe this and believe the Bible that condones the marriage of children?

1 point

Pedophiles are a diseased boil on the ass of humanity. Any adult that wants to have sex with children should be locked up. They choose to be pedophiles.

1 point

Can I please say something to all people who think pedophiles 'choose' to have a sexual interest in children? In my opinion, I don't think pedophiles wake up one day and think to themselves, "you know what? I really want to throw away my normal life and become a pedophile". It is not a desicion. Unless you're a complete and utter psychopath (which is about 1% of the population), you wouldn't make a decision like that. However, I do not beleive pedophilia is a sexual orientation, but more of a mental illness. I have absolutely no support for those sneaky pedophiles who are trying to get themselves into the 'LGBTQ+' community. That is definitely not O.K.

I did not realise how quickly this topic was arising, but when I did I decided to do my own research. It it is not childhood trauma but something's you are born with, unfortunately there is not very much research on pedophilia so I had trouble finding anything more specific than that, but I know it it is true. It' a bit like a lottery, some kids get gay, some of them get transgender, some are pansexual and some are bi. Then, there are those terribly unlucky kids who get put into the worst lottery imaginable, and spin 'pedophilia'. I have no sympathy for a pedophile who has ever even slightly acted on their urges, but I do feel sympathy for the pedophiles out there who feel like the scum of the earth for something that is completely out of their control.

Please don't hate on anybody, no matter who they are are. Spread love, not rumours. And educate yourself. (please) Take everything with a grain of salt and don't play the game of Chinese whispers in this world because you'll be carrying around the wrong message for the rest of your life.

0 points

First of all, psychosexual manifestations of biological traits is not the same as evolutionary advantageousness. Second, evolutionary advantageousness is not the same as moral distinction.

Someone can be born with male chromonsomes, yet hormone levels that elicit psychosexual manifestations more in line with the archetypcal female. This says nothing about evolution's efficacy in selecting traits for fitness. Likewise, evolutionary selection does not have to be morally purposed. Humans ascribe morals: but nature itself does not have a moral agenda.

WE, humans, decide what is moral and what is not.

The fundamental issue here isn't, as you propose: if paedophilia can be proven to be genetically influenced, and homosexuality is genetically influenced, then both ought to be just fine and dandy from a moral perspective. The fundamental issue here is: does paedophilia harm our society? If so, how? (This is how we decipher MORAL distinctions on matters). And likewise: does homosexuality harm our society? And if so, how?

The answer to the first, for the vast, vast majority of all humans on this planet is: yes, paedophilia harms our society. The answer to the second, for a growing number of people, is: no, homosexuality does not harm our society.

You can feel free to disagree with either of those statements. Personally, I despise paedophilia, yet I don't feel averse to consensual homosexuality. That's me speaking in moralistic contexts.

Evolutionarily speaking, biologically speaking, homosexuality and heterosexuality have always existed, will always exist. People "feel" straight, just like they feel gay. And there will always be straight people to fuck and reproduce. Always. If it so happens that the conditions of human nature and human evolution ever favour gay people, then that's what will happen. NATURE HAS NO MORAL AGENDA.

Nature exists and functions regardless of humanity. But morality, morality REQUIRES humanity. There's the difference. We atheists and scientists do not derive our morality from the study of evolutionary biology nor from naturalistic sciences. We derive our morality from emotion, feeling, perspective, thought, need, just like everyone else. The nature of evolution, of objective materials, and mankind's moral agendas, are two very different things.