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Debate Score:10
Arguments:8
Total Votes:10
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 Pinocchio's nose paradox (8)

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dragonmaster(66) pic



Pinocchio's nose paradox

What would happen if Pinichio said, "my nose will now grow."

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This doesn't necessarily indicate a paradox. Pinocchio's nose grows when he tells a lie.

What constitutes a lie is likely what is misunderstood- a lie is not simply telling someone something that is not true. A lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive. It is an intentional communication of an untruth. As such, if an individual is to make a false statement when they believed it to be true, they would not be lieing- they would just be wrong, or mistaken.

If Pinocchio were to say 'my nose will now grow,' and it does not grow, he has not lied, but rather has simply been wrong in his prediction of the outcome. This would only be a paradox if the growth of pinocchios nose responded to untrue statements rather than lies. That would also be an incredibly useful power in its own right...

Hitler(2364) Disputed
1 point

A lie can be accidental. You should learn what a lie is. No intention is required.

2 points

Nope, you're wrong. The term 'lie' specifically means intentional deception. An "accidental lie" is not a lie- it is a case of being mistaken.

dictionary.com

lie

1 [lahy] Show IPA

noun

1.

a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. Synonyms: prevarication, falsification. Antonyms: truth.

Akulakhan(2985) Disputed
1 point

I disagree. Pinocchio knows his nose grows when he lies. And in trying to deceive his nose, is lying. That fulfills the paradox.

1 point

That would depend on the context, really. Lieing is a question of intent to deceive- one can say a factual statement when they believe the opposite to be true, and still be lieing, although factual. One can say a non-factual statement when they believe it to be true, and not be lieing, though mistaken or incorrect.

"Trying to deceive his own nose" is a non-starter; as the nose itself is not an independent sentient entity, there is nothing to deceive. Perhaps the magic that causes this is sentient in its own way- in which case a case could be built for trying to deceive the 'sentient spell.' Or, it may not be sentient at all, and function like a magical lie detector- in which case there is no deceiving it, as there is no entity to deceive.

"My nose will now grow" stated as an attempt to test the noses functionality, is not in an of itself a lie. In this case, the nose would not grow, and the statement would simply be incorrect rather than a lie.

"My nose will now grow" said to a bystander when he knew (or that he knew) that his nose would grow, would be a lie. His nose would grow because of this lie, even though the statement itself would prove factual under those circumstances.

It's not a paradox either way; it would only be a paradox if the growth of the nose responded to the objective truth or falsehood of the statement, rather than the act of lying.

1 point

Being as telling the truth is not inherently redeeming a lie, the truth doesn't have any observable influence on his nose (WHEN NOT to counter a previous lie). Therefore, it's reasonable to assume Pinocchio's nose ONLY reacts to lies and the confession of lying, and not truth telling. The nose is in no violation of it's own rules if it grows after a true statement, though it would be if it didn't grow after a lie. So, in order to satisfy the paradox, the nose would have to grow.