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Debate Score:85
Arguments:82
Total Votes:91
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 Progressives Know Gun Control Won't Stop Criminals (74)

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outlaw60(15368) pic



Progressives Know Gun Control Won't Stop Criminals

So how will gun control work in the Ghettos of America which are run by Progressives ? Will more gun control laws stop those criminals in the Ghettos Of America run by Progressives ?
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3 points

ANYTHING blamed but the fact that we've been teaching our children and our children's children that Human Life is indeed expendable / legal and 'moral' since 1973 ..... they indeed are receiving that message .. they simple chose a different age bracket .... they follow the footsteps of their father ... the ultimate liar and a murderer from the beginning

Cartman(18192) Disputed
0 points

Christianity has always taught that life is expendable. It is extremely ridiculous to claim that it only started in 1973. Anyone who believes that God can wipe out all life and be just in doing so is following a belief that life is expendable.

dadman(1703) Disputed
3 points

Anyone who believes that God can wipe out all life and be just in doing so

hey idiot ............. God < can wipe out .... the ONLY one with that right and authority.

how many stripes for the back of a fool ? ....... pfft !! :)

outlaw60(15368) Disputed
2 points

Will more Gun Control stop criminals in the Ghettos run by Progressives from getting firearms ?

outlaw60(15368) Disputed
1 point

Will what does that say about "The Religion Of Peace" and the Islamic Terrorist that committed the 2nd Worst Mass Shooting in American History ?

AveSatanas(4443) Disputed
0 points

That's why we don't convict and sentence murderers to life in prison and sometimes death. Oh wait, that's exactly what we do. Because killing people is not acceptable and people are not expendable. Youre just asserting they are because you lack any nuanced understanding of....evolution? You're talking about evolution right?

outlaw60(15368) Disputed
1 point

When has a Gun Law stopped a criminal Progressive ? Can you show me any fact on that ?

2 points

No it won't. Terrorist look for gun free zones where they can't defend themselves. Nearly every single shooting since the 1950s has occurred in a gun free zone. Criminals can make their own guns or buy on the black market from someone who makes their own guns quite easily. There's no way to keep the internet's black markets at bay. There will always be some new hacker making some new backdoor entrance to censored networks. You can't close the Internet loophole and if you do people will find some other loophole. ISIS is an actual terrorist organization that could possibly be a gun supplier.

If we go by peace and love logic, which is the wrong logic, we should just have some hot girl try to turn the other cheek and politely ask a terrorist to put the gun down while they are shooting and she'll just get shot in the head is all that will happen. That's at least going by a stupid person's logic. Meanwhile there have been cases in other countries that I cited in another debate where a shooter will try to kill people outside of a gun free zone and they show it takes one person with a gun pointed at the shooter, given that its at an angle where the shooter doesn't have time to turn and shoot the person before getting shot himself (or herself), to neutralize an attacker. I don't mean to sound sexist, but that's the peace and love logic people are using for guns.

http://concealednation.org/2013/11/the-illusion-of-the-gun-free-zone/

There's one citation of an article that mentions one person with a gun being all it takes.

France tried to ban guns and ended up with the Paris attacks as a consequence of everyone being unarmed. Paris was caused by eight people who just happened to be the only ones with guns.

1 point

gun free zones

"Ninety-four of the 133 incidents (71%) took place wholly in private residences. Of the 38 incidents in public spaces, at least 21 took place wholly or in part where concealed guns could be lawfully carried. All told, no more than 17 of the shootings (13%) took place entirely in public spaces that were so-called “gun-free zones.” "

https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/

ghostheadX(1105) Disputed
3 points

find a similar statistic about mass shootings in general, because 1. most mass shootings do happen in gun free zones and 2. France has strict gun laws everywhere, even wjere people are allowed to conceal them, and 3. it doesn't matter so much about your france example because one has to have a hunting license to buy a gun and even the guns they allow in gun allowing zones are heavily restricted from use.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overviewofgunlawsbynation

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-07/paris-killings-show-rise-of-banned-weapons-of-war-in-france

So even with gun allowed zones, France's gun laws are much stricter than the US.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/france

Here's a quote of some of France's gun laws:

"Applicants for a gun owner’s licence in France are required to establish a genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example hunting, target shooting, personal protection, security and collection"

"In France, carrying a gun in a public place is regulated by law"

between those two facts, and the fact that the French black market for gun sales is increasing rapidly, making it a country with among the most armed populations in Europe just because of illegal firearm trade:

http://www.laurelzuckerman.com/2011/01/guns-in-france.html

So by your logic they banned guns and have less shootings, yet more people have guns illegally (which implies criminals) and crime has been drastically increasing in France in the past few years as this is happening:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/France/United-States/Crime

and this statistic show that while the US has a higher total number of crimes (since we have a larger population), France has a higher ratio of crimes committed per capita to its population size:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Total-crimes-per-1000

France's crime rate has begun to explode recently:

http://www.france24.com/en/20121113-france-rising-crime-rates-pile-pressure-government-french-manuel-valls- eric-ciotti/

This is all happening in the country with "the strictest gun laws in the world"

http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/21956-did-france-s-strict-gun-control-contribute-to-the-paris-bloodbath

My point and logic is that while 21 incidents took place where guns could be lawfully carried, the gun laws are so strict that I don't think most people that were law abiding citizens were able to obtain carried guns, because there's an insane process to get them and they are regulated there more than anywhere else in the world. 32% had guns but most of that was illegally and the ones that did IMO would be less likely to leave their gun at home because the gun laws are so strict and probably would prevent people from using these guns or carrying them into certain areas. For example, here's a quote of a French law or even a few that would seriously limit the number of people with guns, even in areas where they are allowed:

"Carrying firearms of categories A,1 B,2 as well as firearms of category D3 listed by Decree in State Council, or essential components of firearms of categories A and B or corresponding ammunition, is forbidden, as well as their transport without genuine reason."

"It is forbidden:

1° To carry firearms, components of firearms and ammunition of categories A4 and B,5 except in cases provided for in Articles R. 315-51 to R. 315-11;2 3

2° To transport without a genuine reason firearms, components of firearms and ammunition of category B;

3° To carry and transport without genuine reason firearms, components of firearms and ammunition of categories C6 and D.7"

"In terms of hunting and sport shooting:

1° A hunting permit issued in France or abroad, or any other document in lieu of a foreign hunting permit, as well as credentials of the current year or of the past year, serves as a legitimate licence to carry firearms, components of firearms and ammunition of category C1 and of 1° of category D,2 as well as firearms of a) of 2° of category D, for use while hunting or to practice a related activity;

2° A hunting permit issued in France or abroad, or any other document in lieu of a foreign hunting permit, serves as a legitimate licence to transport firearms, components of firearm and ammunition of category C and of 1° of category D, as well as firearms of a) of 2° of category D, intended to be used while hunting or to practice a related activity;

3° A valid shooting licence issued by a sports federation that has received, under Article L. 131-14 of the Sports Code, delegation from the Minister in charge of Sports for the practice of shooting, serves as a legitimate licence to transport firearms, components of firearm and ammunition of categories B,3 C and of 1° of category D, as well as firearms, components of firearms and ammunition of 2° of category D, which are used to practice sports related to the said federation."

"Justification for participating in an historical re-enactment serves as genuine reason for the carrying of firearms and components of firearms of a), d), e), f), g) and k) of 2° of category D,1 within the strict framework of this event."

On top of all that here's the punishment in France for carrying a firearm if you aren't on the list of justified reasons to have one (which I think is probably very few people):

"Article L. 317-4

The acquisition, transfer, or possession, without the authorisation referred to in Article L. 313-3,1 of one or many firearms of categories A2 or B,3 ammunition, or their essential components, in breach of Articles L. 312-14 5 6 7 8 9 to L. 312-4-3,10 L. 314-211 or L. 314-3,12 is punishable with a prison term of three years and a fine of 45,000€…

The court shall order, in addition, the seizure of the firearms and ammunition."

outlaw60(15368) Disputed
1 point

You linked everytown a Anti Gun Site run by Bloomberg ? You do understand Bloomberg wants gun confiscation do you not ?

0 points

France tried to ban guns

And they have a lot fewer killings than we do. See also: Australia

ghostheadX(1105) Disputed
2 points

Crime rates have exploded in recent years in France, along with the black market for guns, as I cited in the above response to your disputing argument.

outlaw60(15368) Disputed
1 point

What happened in Paris , France Progressive ? Do you have a CLUE ?

1 point

https://reclaimourrepublic.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/chicago-gun-control-tfernandez.png

So Progressives how well is Chicago Style Gun Control working out ?

0 points

Democrats =/= progressive. Your meme and your statement conflict. But then again when has consistency ever stopped you from being a jackass. Also, not sure where in the fuck you got the idea that all ghettos are in blue states? The states with the lowest incomes and largest recipients of wellfare are all in RED states. If you look at a map of the US by incomes the entire South is completely lit up.

outlaw60(15368) Disputed
2 points

Tell me how well the Gun Laws in Chicago are working ? Show me some fact on that !

AveSatanas(4443) Disputed
0 points

Chicago is surrounded by the greater state of Illinois.the STATE has relaxed gun laws. Chicago itself has strict gun laws but people just bring guns from outside the city into Chicago. Because of that it's hard to measure the actual effect of the gun laws. That's why gun violence is so hard to address cuz you have states trying to enact more gun laws and they're bordering states with no gun laws and people just move between them freely and the guns move around too much. But that level of nuance is too much for you to handle

0 points

It is a mystery to me why it is so many of us who choose to behave like we are naïve little children when it comes to gun and gun violence..

There are those of us claiming to be adults whose focus isn't just on owning a gun for protection, No that's not good enough we need an AR 15, AK-47, 50 caliber machine gun, missile launcher, a tank and any other deadly device that you can think of in order for people to feel safe in society!

There is however the constant chant the bad man is going to break into the doors, through the window etc. so it is absolutely imperative that we have firearms available! That may be true in that there may be breaking to people's homes but this blaming the bad guys for for the insane fear people have in assuming that is the only reason one wants a gun. Consider the following when one already owns a gun:

.. Jealous of a spouse and using a gun to kill that spouse.

.. Child upset with parents takes rifle in gun cabinet kills both parents

.. Parent upset over child support takes gun kills other parent

.. Feuding neighbor takes gun kills other neighbor

It isn't just bad guys and gun toting citizens we should be concerned with!

FromWithin(8241) Disputed
1 point

Over one million unborn babies are killed each year....... not by guns, but by people like you who vote for Democrats that keep the infanticide legal. Hillary and the Democrat party support NO RESTRICTION abortions!

SPARE ME YOUR LAUGHABLE CONCERNS OVER GUNS YOU PIOUS HYPOCRITE.

Your double standards and hypocrisy when it comes to innocent human life is pathetic and barbaric.

wisegrip(132) Disputed
1 point

It seems to me with all of your accusatory, inflammatory language towards me concerning baby death I don't recall hearing one single thing that you have done about that particular problem in which you say you are concerned with!