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Debate Score:121
Arguments:76
Total Votes:165
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Thewayitis(4071) pic



Proof of God

Science cannot and will not ever correctly predict the end of one's life. What controls one's fate? Science, I think not. It is some unknown force that decides why the person with barely a scratch dies and cancer cannot kill another. Everyday you walk out the door or go to sleep at night there is no guarantee that you will see tomorrow. When science can predict the exact second of my demise, then science I shall worship. Until then God has my full attention and respect.

 

Down votes from atheist, I expect.  The truth is never welcomed.

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I thought you were going to ask what would be acceptable proof of God's existence, instead you said something about not knowing when you're going to die...or something.

To make this more interesting, I'll ask what might constitute proof of God's existence.

Since every credible study on the subject shows that the efficacy of prayer is nil, I'd be willing to accept a successful demonstration of the power of prayer; limbs regenerated for amputees who have been prayed for.

For some reason, God seems to (not consistently, but at least some of the time) randomly heal things science already has an answer for, let's see him heal something it doesn't...an amputated limb.

Don't hold your breath though...God seems too busy helping Christians win football games, get promotions or remove tough stains from sweaters to do anything for people missing an arm or a leg.

Thewayitis(4071) Disputed
0 points

In the way of healing, what is it that man can heal 100% of the time. Science cannot be random, this is what you claim is proof that God does not exist. Science randomly cures people, you just converted me.

One can pray for all type of things, but the answer maybe no. Who says God doesn't hear all prayers?

Side: Critical Thinking
ap0110(70) Disputed
1 point

Are you suggesting that a god exists to hear prayers? How do you know such things?

Side: Critical Thinking
4 points

The fact that science cannot accurately predict at what exact age you will die = proof of God?

Okay, well, whatever works for you...

Side: Critical Thinking
4 points

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I'm sure you'll find penicillin has a far higher rate for curing polio than prayer.

If your premise had any merit, this would not be so.

Side: premise is one sided and flawed
Thewayitis(4071) Disputed
0 points

How do know that the person that found penicillin didn't pray to find a cure or the answer to those who prayed was to create a cure?

Side: Critical Thinking
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
3 points

How do you know the first person, or sencond, or 1 millionth person to get the disease before penecilin was discovered, didn't also pray for a cure?

You cannot submit something as evidence, then pick and choose when it does and does not count. If so I declare unicorns to be real. My evidence; someone somewhere once said they saw a unicorn and anyone who says they don't exist just doesn't believe hard enough.

On another note, your pic has been bugging me since you got here, and I just realized where I had seen it link

Side: premise is one sided and flawed

Science cannot and will not ever correctly predict the end of one's life.

We understand that it is quite possible to extrapolate a likely age of death from one's lifestyle and genes.

What controls one's fate?

One does.

Science, I think not.

Science is a method of learning through observation. It is not a religion.

It is some unknown force that decides why the person with barely a scratch dies and cancer cannot kill another.

It is actually a combination of many biological factors.

Everyday you walk out the door or go to sleep at night there is no guarantee that you will see tomorrow.

How this evidences the existence of an omnipotent being, we cannot conceive.

When science can predict the exact second of my demise, then science I shall worship.

It is likely only a matter of time then. However, science does not require worship, merely adherence.

Until then God has my full attention and respect.

We dread to recall the unfortunate fates of many who said the same.

Side: premise is one sided and flawed
Thewayitis(4071) Disputed
1 point

Science is not a method of learning through observation, Quantum Mechanics would not exist if this was true.

Side: Critical Thinking
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
1 point

And please tell me what your understanding of Quantum Mechanics is.

Side: Critical Thinking
3 points

When science can predict the exact second of my demise, then science I shall worship. Until then God has my full attention and respect.

A gallon of milk cannot cure my cancer therefore I will worship a Jar of Pickles (which also cannot cure my cancer).

.

.

.

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Your whole premise is entirely nonsensical. Please make an argument that doesn't make me question your sanity.

-Thank you!

Side: Critical Thinking
2 points

Who said anything about worshiping science? Most Christians I talk to speak of how because I reject the notion of their god, I must bow to science. While I don't worship science, I do see merit in using it's methods to discover what is true about reality. Science goes through a peer review process, there is not a universal bend of the knee when a new discovery is made. Scientific theories and findings are reviewed by a "jury of their peers" before they are accepted by the community. This review process inspects the methods entailed, the findings, and also attempts to repeat the findings.

In Science, there is no holy book, no representative on earth that declares that something is truth. It's actually interesting that believers have no use for us ultimately, that we'll be thrown into the lakes of fire. Yet we allow people to deny reality, deny scientific findings, and still function in our society. Even the Amish still refuse to use electricity, yet we allow them to function within our culture.

Side: Critical Thinking
2 points

So, god has made you aware of the very second of your demise, care to share.

Any other proof would be welcome as well, seeing as proof is something that theists seem to ignore.

Side: Critical Thinking

I don't know if there is a God or not but I do know that once you decide that you have no intention of living forever, life becomes much simpler ;)

Side: Critical Thinking

If you couldn't hear, feel, smell, taste or see me would I exist? Just because you can explain things using science doesn't mean god doesn't exist. God was originally called "The word" because it cannot be described using language. Its is said "god" created us in his image, I don't think that that refers to how we look but instead refers to our ability to answer our own prayers.

Side: Critical Thinking
2 points

Science cannot and will not ever correctly predict the end of one's life.

How do you know that?

- - -

What controls one's fate?

You're presupposing fate. First you must prove there is fate, then we can debate what controls it.

- - -

Science, I think not.

I hope you know that prediction and controlling one's fate (if real) are two separate abilities, right?

- - -

It is some unknown force that decides why the person with barely a scratch dies and cancer cannot kill another.

It's not unknown then, because we know about it, and you're calling it fate.

- - -

Everyday you walk out the door or go to sleep at night there is no guarantee that you will see tomorrow.

We can gather evidence to logically conclude the most highly probable answer for that. But simply because we cannot predict our precise demise somehow means it is significant proof of a deity, let alone a specific deity?

- - -

When science can predict the exact second of my demise, then science I shall worship.

Why the hell would you worship science?

- - -

Until then God has my full attention and respect.

You do not need to worship something, you're implying a false dilemma fallacy; worship God or worship something else, like science. When truth of the matter is, you don't have to worship any of it, EVEN if one, the other, both, or many other options existed.

- - -

"Down votes from atheist, I expect. The truth is never welcomed."

What truth did you provide?

Side: Critical Thinking
Thewayitis(4071) Disputed
1 point

Science cannot and will not ever correctly predict the end of one's life. How do I know this? I know this because accidents cannot be predicted/prevented or they wouldn't be called accidents.

What controls one's fate? You're presupposing fate. First you must prove there is fate, then we can debate what controls it. Fate: the circumstances that befall someone or something (Merriam-Webster).

Science, I think not. I hope you know that prediction and controlling one's fate (if real) are two separate abilities, right? Of course it is two different acts.

It is some unknown force that decides why the person with barely a scratch dies and cancer cannot kill another.

It is some unknown force that decides why the person with barely a scratch dies and cancer cannot kill another.It's not unknown then, because we know about it, and you're calling it fate. I am aware of fate. Is the rest of the world?

Everyday you walk out the door or go to sleep at night there is no guarantee that you will see tomorrow. We can gather evidence to logically conclude the most highly probable answer for that. But simply because we cannot predict our precise demise somehow means it is significant proof of a deity, let alone a specific deity? This only tells us that humans do not hold all the answers and that the answers lay elsewhere.

When science can predict the exact second of my demise, then science I shall worship. Why the hell would you worship science? Some people here worship science and think that it is infallible, I am not one of them.

Until then God has my full attention and respect. You do not need to worship something, you're implying a false dilemma fallacy; worship God or worship something else, like science. When truth of the matter is, you don't have to worship any of it, EVEN if one, the other, both, or many other options existed. One doesn't have to, I choose to.

"Down votes from atheist, I expect. The truth is never welcomed." What truth did you provide? That science, atheists, religious people and all of mankind doesn't know what the truth is. One can only say they believe in whatever and proof may never really be known to them.

Side: Critical Thinking
riahlize(1573) Disputed
1 point

Science cannot and will not ever correctly predict the end of one's life. How do I know this? I know this because accidents cannot be predicted/prevented or they wouldn't be called accidents.

1. This would imply that all deaths are accidents. This is not true.

2. Your use of accidents is inaccurately used. An accident can be predicted in some cases. It's always unseen by the one the accident is caused by, but it's not guaranteed that those around that individual/group wouldn't predict it. An accident is something undesirable, something other than the intent that is produced; that does not require it's unseen.

Fate: the circumstances that befall someone or something (Merriam-Webster).

I find your answer to be intellectually dishonest. Your argument already implied you understood that fate involves predetermination, it's destiny, it's meant to be. Not simply whatever happens, it definitely does involve the circumstances that a person or something experiences, predetermined. And if you disagree with this, then your own question ("Who controls fate") refutes itself. Because the definition you gave does not involve any control.

Of course it is two different acts.

I'm glad you know that difference. I just wanted to be sure you understood that.

I am aware of fate. Is the rest of the world?

If you are aware of it, then it's not unknown. You have yet again refuted your own argument.

This only tells us that humans do not hold all the answers and that the answers lay elsewhere.

Yeah they do lay elsewhere, it's this awesome cool thing called "reality". Why does it have to be a deity, why is reality excluded? Simply because humans don't know doesn't mean we can skip the probability that facts exists that we are not aware of. We do not have to instantly believe that if we don't know, it must be a deity. That's simply cowardice.

Some people here worship science and think that it is infallible, I am not one of them.

I highly doubt your claim. But whatever, I'm sure, someone, somewhere probably does "worship" science.

One doesn't have to, I choose to.

Why do you choose to?

That science, atheists, religious people and all of mankind doesn't know what the truth is. One can only say they believe in whatever and proof may never really be known to them.

In my experience, when someone speaks of "the truth" in a manner of simply referring to it as if there is a specific "the truth", instead of simply being a fact... they tend to be without proof of their truth. Which if true about you, you would be talking about yourself precisely, within your own statement.

Side: Critical Thinking
Thewayitis(4071) Disputed
0 points

Great, just great, a woman with PMS .

Side: Critical Thinking
riahlize(1573) Disputed
1 point

Should I be reporting your comment because it lacks intellectual feedback to this discussion? Or are you doing this because you have no rebuttal and would rather resort to ad hominem fallacies than admit defeat?

Side: Critical Thinking
1 point

so... if i open the bible it will tell when i die? HA! proof that god doesn't exist!

Side: Critical Thinking
Thewayitis(4071) Disputed
0 points

God only knows when it is your time. No human knows when their time is up.

Side: Critical Thinking
ap0110(70) Disputed
1 point

How do you know that a god exists? Please provide evidence before making such claims that a god knows the future.

Side: Critical Thinking
1 point

Science cannot and will not ever correctly predict the end of one's life. What controls one's fate? Science, I think not.

Bodies are complicated things.

It is some unknown force that decides why the person with barely a scratch dies and cancer cannot kill another.

Wow, talk about missing the obvious. You don't believe in germ theory, immune system, or understand the inherent complexity of biological systems. Therefore god.

Everyday you walk out the door or go to sleep at night there is no guarantee that you will see tomorrow. When science can predict the exact second of my demise, then science I shall worship. Until then God has my full attention and respect.

Until absurd conditions are met you will continue to believe in magical guy in the clouds.

Side: No Concept of Biology Therefore God
1 point

so far, science has explained more than God has so far. Science shows that the world was not created in 7 days. A virgin giving birth to a child? But then again the bible, like the U.S. Constitution, is interpreted in so many ways so its near impossible to pin point the content

Side: Critical Thinking
1 point

What does science being unable to predict the exact moment of your death have to do with proof of God or your belief in God?

Are you trying to say that because science cannot accurately predict death, you will believe in God instead? ...even though believers of God haven't shown any sign of being able to predict death more accurately than scientists?

Or are you using a really roundabout way to explain Pascal's Wager?

Side: Critical Thinking

Unfortunately, there's no proof of God.

Please, answer this: What do you think would happen if you were born in India? You'd be a Hindu, not a Christian. What makes your religion any more valid? What are you so afraid of that you have to believe in a big invisible man that controls everything?

Grow up..

Side: Critical Thinking
Thewayitis(4071) Disputed
2 points

I do not claim that Christianity is better than any other religion. As long as one has a religion, it is better than none. It can be Hindu, Jewish, etc., it doesn't matter to me.

Man needs to strive for something better than their own desires; greed, drunkenness, gambling, etc. I have seen what mankind does on their own. I choose to believe in something more. To head toward the light and hope it is not a train coming toward me.

Side: Critical Thinking

"Science cannot and will not ever correctly predict the end of one's life."

Im sorry that humanities quest for knowledge is never over, Im sorry we don't know everything, Im sorry that our search for knowledge isn't unfallible. We have gone pretty close though, we can pretty much predict the year you are going to die based on government research and listing factors to understand your health, and recomendations to help you live longer. not good enough you say? wow someone here is needy ;)

"What controls one's fate? Science, I think not."

nobody ever claimed that science controlls one's fate. All science is, is a tool to use to collect knowledge, thats all. nothing more. the end. period. how more simpler can I make it to you?

"It is some unknown force that decides why the person with barely a scratch dies and cancer cannot kill another."

there is still a lot we don't understand biologically, because like I said science isn't unfallible... and this may occur and we could completely understand why depending on the situation.

"Everyday you walk out the door or go to sleep at night there is no guarantee that you will see tomorrow."

are you scared? do you need that teddy bear at night to tell you everything is going to be ok? want some invisible, intangible thing to hold your hand at night? XD now Im just being an asshole, but that is not evidence sorry.

"When science can predict the exact second of my demise, then science I shall worship."

we don't want you to worship science, nobody does, and science is really just humanities quest for knowledge. it is the best tool we got for it.

"Until then God has my full attention and respect."

because we don't know everything we need god to fill in the gaps... ok I got it XD

"Down votes from atheist, I expect. The truth is never welcomed."

no you are just ignorant...

Side: Critical Thinking
1 point

I think what he's trying to say is that he is submitting to an all-powerful God that knows and controls everything because this very knowledge makes him worthy of being followed. Please don't smother me with downvotes because I am not necessarily sponsoring his worldview, just clarifying it.

Side: Critical Thinking
Thewayitis(4071) Disputed
1 point

I believe I am a sinner and not worthy of being followed. One should aim higher than the current human standard, which is pathetic. I only wish to be a better person and hope the same for mankind.

Side: Critical Thinking

Science has predicted Hurricane Irene. I heard that four people died. It is possible that without that warning due to science, there could be more deaths.

I do believe in God by the way. I believe that if demons exists, there must be a God. There are stories of the afterlife as well. Could they be made up? Could everything we see and hear be decieving? Yes and yes but life is not worth living when we cannot trust. That is why we trust, so we can continue with our lives. That is my opinion.

Side: Critical Thinking
1 point

science is the investigation of Gods design. it's like a chimp inspecting a model car you just created and the chimp tries to figure it out... So figuring stuff out or trying to should be worshiped? Foolishness. How about that which is being inspected is it the substance that should be praised??? I tell you no, this too is nonsensical.

Consider that you and all humans are wandering down a dark tunnel but each of you have gotten an oil lamp to see what is and where and who and why but the the first one at the beginning of the tunnel passed all the oil lamps out was/is God. You did not create the lamp nor the light it sheds nor the path it shines on, give proper respect where it is due & come to know your creator.

Side: Critical Thinking
Cuaroc(8828) Disputed
1 point

Got any proof that creator exists ?

Side: Critical Thinking