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Religion is hurting Humanity.
OR.
I get so sad, every time I look at this graph, I sit back sometimes and wonder what human technological achievements would we have reached if it wasn't for the religion plague.
As you can see religion set us back a 1000 years in scientific advancement.
Christianity and Islam are to blame, now I am sure other religions played there part but for the most part those two religions were mostly to blame. They are the ones that went on a massive 1000 year crusade vs each other and the rest of the world, burning down libraries of knowledge collected over thousands of years and are responsible for crippling humanity in the name of God.
I place the blame on all religion but those two are at the top of my list, I will not rest until I see those religions wiped off the face of this earth, I can not longer see humanity suffer due to the backlash religion has caused on the progress of us all.
But for the sake of debate who do you think is more to blame if you had to pick one, yes, yes they are both to blame but who do you think hindered humanity most though history?
Hey ya'll did it first so I don't want to hear it. If you don't have what it takes to beat me one on one at least have the stones to bow out like a gentleman.
False dichotomy. You're presenting data concerning the impact of the Christian dark ages on science; but presenting only "Christianity" and "Islam" as your options. In lieu of the data you've presented, your options should have been limited to Christianity (i.e. "Christianity is to blame" vs. "Christianity is not to blame".
In response to THAT question, I would say that Christianity is NOT to blame because most of the major scientific advances of the time were in fact made by members of the Christian clergy. Add to that, even at the peak of the dark ages, science continued unabated throughout the rest of the world.
You might also find the work of Jim Al-Khalili, an atheist and theoretical physicist of interest. I would particularly urge to you look at his BBC documentary, "Science and Islam" as it might help you to get a better grasp of the material and theoretical sciences.
The reason I didn't present "Christianity to blame vs Christianity not to blame" is because everyone with a evolved homosapien brain knows they are to blame.
I also wanted to shed light on how Christians were not alone in the intellectual raping of humanity, Islam played a major role as well as other religions, besides it makes for better debates to put a Christian vs Muslim.
Islam did indeed help science but so long as it didn't contradict God, and that's almost everything, they did however make contributions to mathematics.
Islam was notorious for burring many scientific advancements that might in any way beg to question Muhammad as the profit, so just like the Jesus freaks they played the "pick and choose game" with what they deeded as science and because so we missed the boat on space travel by 1000 years.
"The reason I didn't present "Christianity to blame vs Christianity not to blame" is because everyone with a evolved homosapien brain knows they are to blame."
That's a very poor reason and it belies your emotional reasoning. Please be sure to use logic and reason in future debates, especially when you are creating the propositions.
Great chart. I feel like handing it out at churches on Sunday.
I'm only on this side due to power. Christianity has more of it historically and so has been able to cause more damage with it.
They are fundamentally the same thing though. Had Islam been the dominant religion in Europe the Dark Ages would have had Islamic Crusades. If you moved a bunch of fundamental Christians from the U.S. to the Middle East tomorrow, in a decade they would be planning how to fly planes into the "great beast's" buildings.
Both religions believe they have a divine right to the earth. Both believe they have some calling to make others think like them. Both are afraid of advancements in society because it clashes with their faulty and primitive world view. Both worship a god who is vengeful and violent, no matter what they claim their religion actually stands for.
You cannot teach either religion to a large number of people and expect that a large number of those people are not going to be as violent, vengeful, and discriminating as the god their religion is based on. You just can't do it no matter how much you try to modernize the religion.
So shit happens in this life and you, as well as others, claim it's because people believe in a god?
THat is ridiculous.
Do not blame the stupidity of mankind on what they believe in. Blame the stupidity of mankind on people and how they deal with what they believe in. N O T what they believe in.
So shit happens in this life and you, as well as others, claim it's because people believe in a god?
Sometimes it is and sometimes it is not because they believe in a god. My point is belief in a god does more harm for humanity than good. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
Do not blame the stupidity of mankind on what they believe in.
Why on earth not? I think there is a descent amount of evidence that what people believe in is directly responsible for many of the stupid things mankind does. Why wouldn't I blame what they believe?
Blame the stupidity of mankind on people and how they deal with what they believe in. N O T what they believe in.
People make choices based upon their beliefs. However, the belief itself doesn't murder, rape, bring wars. People kill people. People rape people. People bring wars to people. NOT what the people believe in.
Religion actively tries to convince people to believe in fantasy. Most religious people are indoctrinated, the vast majority of religious people. These means they have little or no choice in their belief. This gives religion power and historically I believe that this power is used for harm more often then good.
Hence, without religion, the world would be a better place.
You, like nummi, claim indoctrination and you make it seem that simply because people like myself were raised in a religious environment, that we ourselves do not have choices and that the choices we do make are nothing more than choices made for us by the particular religion. Thats completely false and ridiculous. I did not choose to be alive nor did I choose what my parents taught me when I was younger. For a long time now I've been thinking on my own and believe in what I believe in not because my parents told me to, nor because "god" told me to, but because I'm allowed to believe in what I want to and I choose to believe somethings there because of the complexity of nature, amongst other reasons. And so to claim that I now have no free will, or choice is fucking ridiculous. You're taking away my freedom to make choices based upon your hatred (or whatever you wish to call it) against religion and all the religious. So essentially because you are angry or frustrated, or whatever you want to call it, that makes it okay for you to say "You had no choice in what you believe in." What makes you, a non religious person, have more choice than I? Are we not all human? Are we not on the same fucking earth? Get off your fucking high horse.
You do not know if this world would be better without religion. Thats simply your opinion and as people like yourself wanting evidence. Give me your evidence. Its impossible, thus far. And until the day you can claim without a doubt no god(S) exists, fucking deal with it.
You, like nummi, claim indoctrination and you make it seem that simply because people like myself were raised in a religious environment, that we ourselves do not have choices and that the choices we do make are nothing more than choices made for us by the particular religion.
Do you have choice? You sound like a typical religiously indoctrinated person to me. Have you ever considered not being religious? Have you ever considered another religion?
For me (since I guess we are randomly inserting ourselves into the conversation now), I had no choice for much of my life. I was thoroughly brainwashed and was only able to break free of it in my early 20s. It was an effort. It does not surprise me at all that others cannot.
I did not choose to be alive nor did I choose what my parents taught me when I was younger.
Very true. You support my indoctrination comment splendidly. What this has to do with the debate I do not yet know, but point taken.
For a long time now I've been thinking on my own and believe in what I believe in not because my parents told me to, nor because "god" told me to, but because I'm allowed to believe in what I want to and I choose to believe somethings there because of the complexity of nature, amongst other reasons.
Okay. Congratulations? So I take it from this that you are everyone? Or are you projecting your own experience onto everyone because it is difficult for you to imagine another who does not feel as you do? That would be a symptom of indoctrination btw.
And so to claim that I now have no free will, or choice is fucking ridiculous.
I never said that. People have free will, I'm guessing you are a person, though you do sound as if perhaps you have less choice then you think, but whatever.
It doesn't matter. Influence is what matters. This is what I'm speaking of, and have been speaking of.
You're taking away my freedom to make choices based upon your hatred (or whatever you wish to call it) against religion and all the religious.
No I didn't nor do I care to. It is odd though how quickly you play the poor victim, all I've done is say how harmful and evil your religion is and you are speaking of slavery.
It does not strike you as odd how exaggerated your defense is? After all, your religion has a history of murder, rape, mass destruction on a biblical scale. All I've said is "your religion hurts humanity" and you sound like you've just escaped a life of slavery where your parents were slaughtered or something. I wouldn't do that... I'm not a christian.
So essentially because you are angry or frustrated, or whatever you want to call it, that makes it okay for you to say "You had no choice in what you believe in."
I was never talking about you specifically until now, but yes, many have no choice.
As for angry or frustrated, looks like you're projecting again here. Have you seen what you're writing?
What makes you, a non religious person, have more choice than I?
We do not have a doctrine which tells us what to choose.
Are we not all human? Are we not on the same fucking earth? Get off your fucking high horse.
Yes. Yes. No.
You do not know if this world would be better without religion. Thats simply your opinion and as people like yourself wanting evidence. Give me your evidence. Its impossible, thus far. And until the day you can claim without a doubt no god(S) exists, fucking deal with it.
View chart above.
---
Okay so here's a helpful tip. Instead of whining about how crucified the most powerful entity in the history of humanity is, christianity, how about pointing out where I'm wrong about religion hurting humanity, specifically, and giving some examples of good.
Then we can have a normal debate without all the crying about you, you, you, you, you.
Do you have choice? You sound like a typical religiously indoctrinated person to me. Have you ever considered not being religious? Have you ever considered another religion?
For me (since I guess we are randomly inserting ourselves into the conversation now), I had no choice for much of my life. I was thoroughly brainwashed and was only able to break free of it in my early 20s. It was an effort. It does not surprise me at all that others cannot.
A.You don't even know which religion I follow. How to conclude what you do not know?
B. Yes I have considered being non religious, for a while now. It's too boring for me. ;)
C. Yes I have considered and studied many religions.
Very true. You support my indoctrination comment splendidly. What this has to do with the debate I do not yet know, but point taken.
What is your point? My point was that influence goes throughout the entire spectrum. NOT JUST THE RELIGIOUS. People are born and taught X, Y, Z. This has nothing to do with "there is no choice after the fact"; which you have stated.
Okay. Congratulations? So I take it from this that you are everyone? Or are you projecting your own experience onto everyone because it is difficult for you to imagine another who does not feel as you do? That would be a symptom of indoctrination btw.
I don't need a fucking congrats from you. What does this have to do with everyone? I'm talking about myself and you assert that I'm speaking for everyone.
BTW my brother, my fucking flesh and blood, is an atheist/agnostic. He's not quite sure these days. And I speak to him every day. So fuck you on that one.
I never said that. People have free will, I'm guessing you are a person, though you do sound as if perhaps you have less choice then you think, but whatever.
It doesn't matter. Influence is what matters. This is what I'm speaking of, and have been speaking of.
Once again, which choice do you think I am not considering? To not believe? Why should I not believe. Give me a good reason why I should not believe?
We do not have a doctrine which tells us what to choose.
Oh, so what you know wasn't taught to you? Fucking please...
View chart above.
I've looked it over countless times. Consideration. Consideration. Nah, that chart mean nothing, fuck it. It's merely an opinion of a person whom is angry at religion because of grief, of war, of pain that humans inflict on each other.
Okay so here's a helpful tip. Instead of whining about how crucified the most powerful entity in the history of humanity is, christianity, how about pointing out where I'm wrong about religion hurting humanity, specifically, and giving some examples of good.
Then we can have a normal debate without all the crying about you, you, you, you, you.
HAHAHA you attacked my beliefs. You do not know whether I'm a Christian, or a Buddhist, or a hindu, or anything. I've not specified anything to you. This isn't about me. It's about me defended all religions and beliefs. You're defending your beliefs and I defending mine. Do you get that david?
No I didn't nor do I care to. It is odd though how quickly you play the poor victim, all I've done is say how harmful and evil your religion is and you are speaking of slavery.
It does not strike you as odd how exaggerated your defense is? After all, your religion has a history of murder, rape, mass destruction on a biblical scale. All I've said is "your religion hurts humanity" and you sound like you've just escaped a life of slavery where your parents were slaughtered or something. I wouldn't do that... I'm not a christian.
I'm not a victim, man. My defenses are not exaggerated it's just right to people like yourself; claiming religion hurts humanity.
I was never talking about you specifically until now, but yes, many have no choice.
As for angry or frustrated, looks like you're projecting again here. Have you seen what you're writing?
Projecting what? I'm responding onto what you've told me yourself. I'm a believer and so you're speaking to me.
Okay so here's a helpful tip. Instead of whining about how crucified the most powerful entity in the history of humanity is, christianity, how about pointing out where I'm wrong about religion hurting humanity, specifically, and giving some examples of good.
Then we can have a normal debate without all the crying about you, you, you, you, you.
You are wrong because you're using people, in this case "Christians", whom have used the "NAME" to go to war, to rape, to murder, to do "horrible" things to mankind. And I say, do not blame the beliefs, blame the fucking person doing the horrible acts. I can sit here and say "When murder, rape, wars have happened without religion. I should blame the belief system of that person." Support? How about the Persian Empire, not Christian, though perhaps another religion involved. Either way, that religion that Empire gave two shits about that religion and was power hungry.
The wars between England, Scotland and Ireland. Power hungry mother fuckers.
The wars that America has brought upon other countries. Power hungry.
Every war was brought upon by their ego to want more power, more land, more money, [ECT]. NOT because they believed in X, Y, Z god(s). But because their human error, their indifference's, their human ego brought them to war. Not what they believed in itself.
I know you are a christian, I can tell by how you argue.
But lets go another route, you're all over the place.
1. Religion has been used in the past and is currently used as a way of convincing people to harm other people, anything from murder to not letting specific people get married.
Do you deny this?
2. I believe that without religion many of the people who harm others in whatever way, would not.
Do you deny this?
The point is not who's to blame. The point is religion as a tool used more often for evil then for good. Take away the tool and evil doesn't disappear, I never made that claim those are your assumptions, evil is decreased though, at very least the ability to do evil.
Now, forget your brother and your feelings and whatever else.
Answer 1 and 2 directly, simply, in a couple of sentences if possible.
First of all I am not considered Christian, though I believe in some things that Christians do believe and and some things that Christians do not. Get that straight.
1. Yes I deny this. Religion is used by certain people whom claim to be within that religion for the worst, including harm, murder, "not letting specific people get married", whatever, whatever.
2. I believe "evil" would still exist without religion being involved. That is I believe people would still do "harmful acts and/or would be error prone" because we are humans and it is evident that humans do stupid shit, including murder, rape, [ECT] regardless of whatever religion people believe in.
1. Yes I deny this. Religion is used by certain people whom claim to be within that religion for the worst, including harm, murder, "not letting specific people get married", whatever, whatever.
You actually are not denying my point then. That is my point. Religion is used in this way as you say. So then my argument is that if that tool is taken away, people would do these things less often.
2. I believe "evil" would still exist without religion being involved. That is I believe people would still do "harmful acts and/or would be error prone" because we are humans and it is evident that humans do stupid shit, including murder, rape, [ECT] regardless of whatever religion people believe in.
I agree with this as well. You've repeated my sentiment. Some people will still do some "evil" things.
But masses of people will not is my point and you've not been able to show me how this is not the case.
Humans are social beings, we develop empathy naturally, we, most, do not even need to be taught to want to help others in trouble for example. So how is it that so many of these naturally empathic humans are so often convinced to cause harm to others?
Ideologies which justify these actions.
The most powerful ideologies are religious.
The most powerful religion is Christianity.
Get rid of Christianity and you get rid of the most powerful ideology available for people to justify evil. Get rid of all religion you do even more, get rid of all ideology and all you have left are sociopaths and psychos, no more mass injustice.
But this is about religion specifically, and Islamic and Christian religion specifically. Of the two, Christianity is the most readily available and most often used tool for evil on a mass scale.
Do you have an answer to why mass numbers of humans, most of whom have natural empathy, would support injustice on a mass scale without an ideology to justify it?
If not you must admit that the world is better without religion, and of religion, Christianity more so than others.
I mean religion in general did not hurt humanity, not just Christianity or Islam. There are tons of religions fighting with one another, to try to say one of the two held society back more is not only wrong but it's racist.
Humanity has will always have been set back in that time, if not by religion then by some other force. Maybe laziness maybe a new discovery of something that they would have tried to work on to no avail for the entire length of that time.
The way this debater posted this debate is why I posted what i did on both sides. it's racist and it's wrong.
What's to say, if any religion held humanity back, that it wasn't Judaism, Buddhism, Scientology, Catholicism, or one of the various cults that pop up every now and then.
What i am trying to say is that this topic, of which religion held back humanity more seems insulting because they are insisting that all religion hurts humanity and that these two religions are the most responsible. My views on religion holding humanity back is that it's not all religion's fault. Things would have came in to make the dark ages happen if religion never existed. It could have happened sooner, it could have happened later, but the problems that people try to associate with religion on all of humanity in the grand scheme are hardly all due to religion.
O.P.'s comments is this. Religion is damaging. he's not asking he's saying. What he is asking is if the worst one is Islam, or if it's Christianity.
My view on this is that to break it down to those two is wrong, and my other opinion is that the debate should have said Religion is hurting humanity,. Yes or No?
So it could be a debate of yes or not, not a debate of definitely now which one of these two are worse.
It's one sided really, and for the people who feel that it is hurting humanity, they may feel that one of these two aren't the worse.
A bit farther back than ware we are presently because Rome would have still been sacked by marauding pagan Barbarians but this time there were no monasteries to hide certain archives in so the language was lost we would have had to create a whole new one as a-posed to just relearn the current one and of course the roman 12tables where lost so no republics sorry and roman architecture would have also been lost so no concrete.
Mars would already be colonized (probably just scientific and mining? colony, something like that, but still). Actually I think some moons orbiting Jupiter could have some small science outposts also. What a loss.
I know damn pagans burning down Rome destroying all that knowledge. At least the Catholic Church was able to preserve some peace's of Roman knowledge so we could begin to rebuild.
What the hell are you talking about? And if it's about science well I hate to break it to ya but EVERYTHING is science, yes one can go so far as to say science is God, without it we would be no where, understand nothing, hell we wouldn't be talking because science invented the Internet and every other creature comfort you have today, not religion.
As for space colonization yes I am very upset that ignorant emotionally driven religion got in the way of human progress.
Here is a fun fact: Did you know if we do not colonize space we as a Earth species are all dead, instinct, a blip on the cosmic radar, so yes our NUMBER ONE goal as humans should be to work together to spread the seeds of humanity because no one else is going to do it for us, not Jesus, not Muhammad or any other supernatural religious hero.
Of course science is everything, that is the notion of "God" brought about science; meaning, humans are curious and curiousity brought about many things, including science and the possible existent in God(s). I believe in science 100 percent! I also believe that God(s) exists 100 percent! I never stated science is not everything.....?
Religion did not get in the way! People utilizing religion as a scapegoat, to murder, to rape, got in the way; the human error side of us got in the way. Religion itself is nothing more than curious humans, as science is n nothing more than curious humans wishing to understand the world around us.
I agree, humans (science and religion and...????) ought to come together, instead of pointing fingers, and help each other help us. We are humans and we are more special than we know, or believe we are or aren't. We've got a brain (cognition) and free will ("more choice") that is unlike any other species on the planet! For us to even imagine we can colonize another planet itself separates us from other animals, species, [ECT].
Sure I may have been a bit harsh in my previous response, and I apologize for that.
We all let our emotions drive us to say and do things at times that are out of character, I know first hand, lol
I agree with you 100% we all need to come together as a human family, we have been separated on this earth for far to long, me personally don't know if there is a God, reasonably though I find it hard to believe that all this can come from nothing so in all likely hood there might be a creator but until I have proof I will remain 50/50% or Agnostic in my views.
Also I truly don't think most religion were meant to be used as a way for people to justify evil, it's just people always tend to look for ways to do just that, and as sad as it may be religion has been used to justify many evil actions though our history, it's a shame really, I am however pretty sure Jesus did not want his teachings to be used though out history to justify evil.
I going to tell you this, although I do not belong to any religion I do follow the positive messages shown to us by Jesus and many great people though out history , Buddha, Gandhi ect. I just will not fall victim the political propaganda that comes with it.
I love medieval history, but there are so many things that make me want to puke, such as the 'pear of agony' which was used on gays and adulterers. The medieval muslims were cool. They had algebra, medicines and other amazing things. Things flipped a little, as they do.
If not for Islam, even more of the world's knowledge would have been lost than what already was. Especially after the fall of the Roman Empire, and the decline of the Byzantine, Muslim scholars were basically solely responsible for the preservation of much of the ancient world's knowledge, including that of the Greeks and Romans. Muslim scholars also contributed significantly to scientific and cultural growth, both by their own invention and spreading the ideas of other empires from around the known world. Christianity, meanwhile, has basically been good only for untold millions of deaths, countless wars, a drastic decline in science and knowledge just for the sake of keeping the Church in power, and the spread of hatred and bigotry far more than what Islam has spread.
Sure, blame religion.. easier than looking for the real causes and reasons. I think a lot of things hurt humanity, and you can't put the blame solely on religion.
This is the biggest load of uneducated bullshit I have ever heard in my life! Christianity is the bloodiest, most hypocritical religion in existence. Christians have owned the most slaves, started the most wars, stolen the most pagan holidays, oppressed the most Jews, and oppressed the most Muslims. And here I thought you were too smart to buy into their bullshit propaganda. Pfft.
Christianity first gained popularity among roman slaves. So who was enslaved?
started the most wars
Really lets see during the Middle Ages there where 3 big wars that were fought over religion the first was the Muslim invasion of Europe the second was the crusades and the third was the war between the Teutonic order and the Lithuanian pagans of those 2 were started by Muslims and one was started by Christians. Besides from the dark ages on into the renaissance many European countries where monarchistic theocracies so of course you are going to experience difficulties livening there if your not part of the majority religion Jews in the middle Eastern Muslim theocracies had much of the same experience. Well almost the same I mean the in the Muslim countries they weren't allowed to own land or operate there own businesses (in Europe they did both these things) and that's just the ones that weren't killed or enslaved.
oppressed the most Jews go to Israel ask the people there who they feel the greater threat is to them at the moment or rather since Israel was founded. Christianity or Islam.
stole the most pagan holidays it isn't our fault those days just so happened to fall on the same dates as very significant events in Jesus's life.
Christianity first gained popularity among Roman Slaves - it really didn't, show me a reference. It was initially 'Jewish Only', then gained traction amoungst Greeks and the Roman Elite following Saul's conversion.
1. How did the Muslims start the crusades exactly? Pope Urban called for Christians 'retaking' the holy land, they were fought on Islamic turf, the Christians were clearly the agressors
The Muslim invasion of Europe took place in the Dark, not Middle ages (it was turned by by Charles Martell in 721), OK there you have a point Islam was the aggressor.
Clearly in the case of the baltic crusade Christians were the aggressors I make that 2:1 against the christians.
And that's only counting your wars, let's not even get into force christianisation of the Americas and Africa... Epic body count.
2) Oppressed the most Jews - yes if you restrict your view of history to only since 1948 then you have a case, all be it a weak one. Remember that it is the Jewish isrealis that are taking arab land, not the other way around, the palestinians are only defending themselves.
Before that... The Spanish Inquisition, The Russian Pogroms, the English & French expulsions, the 3rd frikkin Reich - all perpetrated by Christians, all infinitely worse than offences perpetrated by Muslims, who through the majority of history provided shelter to the Jews (during the Spanish Inquisition the Spanish Jews fled to the Maghreb and Ottoman empire).
3. Stole the most pagan holidays - dafuq? Are you that naive? a) Who cares b) obviously it wasn't a coincidence. "So if we convert to your religion can we still party on midwinter? " "Sure we'll call it christmas"
"there where 3 big wars that were fought over religion the first was the Muslim invasion of Europe the second was the crusades and the third was the war between the Teutonic order and the Lithuanian pagans of those 2 were started by Muslims and one was started by Christians"
Do you have any evidence to support this?
"go to Israel ask the people there who they feel the greater threat is to them at the moment or rather since Israel was founded. Christianity or Islam"
Logical fallacy, false comparison. You're wanting to look at only a small slice of modern history (post 1950) and confine the inquiry to a small geographic region. Human history and the history of the oppression of the Jews stretches much further back than 1950 and the creation of the state of Israel.
yes actually. First you cannot say the Muslims did not start the first war on that list they invaded for Christ sake what I suppose that was just some huge misunderstanding. that they were actually just trying to ask for a cup of sugar? And the crusades after and as a result of the Muslims taking Jerusalem form the Byzantines its a historical fact that the crusades where a response to a jihad.
As for this second part go back and read it again I also included some period specific examples as well.
And yes I know of the holocaust that was carried out by the Nazi occult.
"First you cannot say the Muslims did not start the first war on that list they invaded for Christ sake what I suppose that was just some huge misunderstanding. that they were actually just trying to ask for a cup of sugar"
That's not "evidence". That's your opinion. "Evidence" is some form of tangible proof (e.g. archaeological or historical records).
"And the crusades after and as a result of the Muslims taking Jerusalem form the Byzantines its a historical fact that the crusades where a response to a jihad."
So, in fact it wasn't the Muslims that started the Crusades, it was the Christians because they felt they owns Jerusalem and weren't happy to have lost it.
It's my opinion that invading starts wars lol what? Look dude it's a know and excepted fact that the Muslims invaded Europe its documented. And if the Muslims had left Jerusalem alone the crusades never would have happend.
It isn't a historical fact. When did Jerusalem fall to the Arabs? And when did the first crusade occur? Google it.
The holocaust was absolutely not carried out by 'the Nazi occult', it was carried out by Christian Germans, Ukrainians and Lithuanians. Hitler was a Catholic. It is true that Himmler had a weird fixation on Pagan / pre-christian Germanic cults, but Hitler had no time for it and the movement never gained traction even amoungst the SS (Himmler's own posse).
The events of Jesus fell on the same dates as those events because it was made up lol, even the birth of Jesus was a carbon copy of the Egyptian god Horus, from 12 disciples to being born of virgin to dying and being resurrected 3 days later. The only difference is Horus lived 1500 years before Jesus, who knows maybe Jesus was a time traveler lol.
Humm coincidences, maybe but that is just one case example, I can name over a dozen historical accounts that predate the story of Jesus with the same story going back at least 5000 years, are you sure you want to go down that road because I have the proof to back up my claims.
And child I am not the one who believes in fairy tails, tell me whats the difference between believing in the stories of the bible and believing in tooth fairy, Jack and the bean stock, little red riding hood?
Are you serious? You see this is what I hate about atheists you think it's okay just to say what ever the hell you want well. while the first ammendment may agent you freedom of speech my parents tought me that just becaus you can say something in no way means you should. religion helps people it provides comfort and peace. You won't convince me of any thing I can assure you because all those "reoccurring story's are either coincidences or you over analyzing. And don't bother showing them to me I'm not interested in pagan myths. pS Jesus never owned a gun they didn't exist in his day dumb ass your trying to make Jesus seem as violent as Muhammad come on Jesus didn't raid his own family's caravans of beat his six year old wife (Muhammad married a six year old which at the time was acceptable but then he beat her which in the muslim world is like a popular sport (in middle eastern country's with sharia law it is) Muhammad also personally led multiple genocides jesus on the other hand did none of those things he didn't even marry.
Jesus with a gun, well tell yous conservatives that because they seem to think Jesus is for gun rights, so Yes I felt is was perfectly appropriate to show Jesus with a gun.
As for the rest: I guess the saying is true then, you really can't reason with religious people, case closed.
In general, religious people are JUST like you, in general, desiring to figuring out what the hell is going on around us. We're all in the same boat on the same earth breathing the same air with the same DNA make-up figuring out what everything is all about.
That's a tuff call, Christianity is just more evolved now days, but a few hundred years ago Christianity has done stuff that would make the baby Muhammad cry lol.
They do say that Islam is about 500 years behind Christianity in terms of religious progress so that might be the reason Islam seems more violent today, but Christians today are just as violent but they just do it more under the political radar, like letting a country and it's people starve that won't convert to Christianity.
Today most Christians wouldn't blow themselves up in the name of Jesus but they have in the past went on suicide missions for there cause many times throughout history.
Overall me personally I think Christianity hindered human progress more.
Lol, I see your point, but I was meaning what happens outside the book in the name of those books, Christians I think have them beat in the crimes against humanity department, now as for most psychopathic, I might have to agree that Islam takes that cake.
To me it is the quality of reasoning rather than the practical application that counts for this debate. Islam and Christianity have reached a level where they both have done way too much damage and in current times it's definitely Islam that's taking the cake.
You've never actually read the Qur'an, have you? You're just repeating the usual conspiracy theorists nonsense of New Atheism. You're also neglecting the data presented in the opening of the debate. We're talking about science.
Masculine, not at all. A pig headed, arrogant, violently-disagreeable, stubborn, and emotion-driven man can be said to be very masculine. He can't be described as particularly mature, which is the problem here, be he sure as hell would be manly.
Thus we agree that he is being immature. We disagree as to how masculine it is for man for loose control of himself emotionally. There's certainly nothing objective that I can bring to discussion as evidence of labile emotions being "not" masculine. It is a personal opinion.
Idk man. Testosterone and estrogen are not bodily chemicals that illicit reasoned, logical responses in any case. Hormones fuck with our logical decisions. In men, generally it makes them think with their fists or their dick.
Hey wait a minute. He brings up a valid point. If Islam is so good, why don't Muslims fight harder against these horrible things. In Muslim countries, rape victims are beaten, jailed, and often murdered. After I was raped, I thanked God that I am not a Saudi Woman, and do NOT get me starting on Saudi freaking Arabia. Criticizing religion is a fundamental right because one must question everything, even God Himself.
He doesn't bring up a valid point. Hes not questioning god or Saudi Arabia, he's asserting that the Muslim holy texts compel Muslims to throw acid into the face of women and that science has proven women are beautiful. He doesn't have any factual evidence to back his assertions up, thus his points are invalid.
Of course criticized religion is a basic right. Therefore, it should be criticized in an intelligent fashion. Unfortunately he doesn't really have a point at all. For him to have a point, he would need some evidence. As it stands, all he's point amounts to is, "something bad happens in Pakistan, therefore it must be true of all Muslim countries".
Acid attacks on women? Here in Malaysia, it's almost exclusively Chinese men that throw acid on women. Not Muslims. In Cambodia, it's mostly wives who use acid to attack their husbands lovers (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/22/world/vengeance-destroys-faces-and-souls-in-cambodia.html).
I've spent a long time looking at this issue of acid attacks and I've never found a single instruction in either the Qur'an or Hadith to support the use of acid throwing. Therefore, this is NOT an Islamic/Muslim issues as much as it is an issue of violence against women in a developing country. Religion isn't the issue. Culture is the issue. That's why we don't see acid throwing right across the Muslim world.
Oh, okay. I didn't realize you were talking out of your ass and didn't actually know anything about the books you were comparing; I figured you had actually, y'know, read the books. If you don't wanna read it, that's fine, but it's kinda foolish for you to try and shit talk and compare content of a book you've never read.
Hahaha what is it with people on this site and taking things personally?
We're on a debate site, man. If you shit talk something and then admit you don't actually know anything about it, you, what, expect people to let that slide and still take your shit talking seriously? We're on here to contradict and argue with one another, and you said something easy to refute so I did just that. It's why we're here. It's nothing personal, and I don't know why you're treating it like it is.
Guys, can you really blame it on the religon? People use religon as a powerful pretense to justify their actions. While christians may undoubtedly have done the most damage, that's just a number made by people, not religon. Right now. it's the Islam, and maybe these people actually believe. Of course, then there's the question if our technological advances are actually a good thing.
So instead of debate me I see you Guys chose instead to down vote all my arguments well I suppose that is one cheap way to move your team ahead when you can't stack up against certain opponents head to head. Men you guys are pathetic.
I got the notification that I had argument activity I looked and all my arguments had been down voted now on the iPad it doesn't tell you who did it so I down voted every one just to be safe.
Nah I'm a Christian not a Muslim. And I brought up the gun because the pictures at the top the one of Jesus has been doctored to make him appear as violent as Muhammad which we all know is a ridiculous assertion. It's and unfair, inaccurate, and offensive representation of Jesus.
Well Christians never killed millions of innocent people. And I'm sure your about to bring up the holocaust don't its proven that hitler wasn't really a Christian but that he just used a lot of generic religious terms to rally support. Look up the nazi occult.
Well then you must have been talking about the crusades the other event you atheists like to Blame on us Christians. Let me make this very clear the Crusades didn't happen until the Muslims invaded Christian lands, took Jerusalem, and denied Christians access. Are you honestly going to tell me Christianity was not justified in responding to an invasion?
That's what happened when the Muslims took the city. I believe the crusaders took justification form the bible quote "an eye for an eye" Christianity now places more focus on Jesus's quote "if you are struck apon the check present your attacker your other check"
Dude those are facts. When the Byzantines held the city they dumped all their trash on the rock where Muhammad supposedly ascended into heaven (all historical account suggest the Byzantines where not aware of the large flat stones religious significance and just saw it as a large clear patch of hard ground ie the perfect dump) seeing this the Muslims became enraged and slaughtered all the Christians in the city and refused to allow Christians into the city.
I assume it was difficult for the Europeans to distinguish between the Arab Muslims and the Jews since they had similar skin color similar manner of dress and Spoke the same language.
Islam has done more harm than good Christianity how ever is the reason we still have written language and observatories . Christianity's contributions to human advancement are numerous it's because of them that the Roman 12 tables survived the sacking of Rome and could go on the be the model for future republics. Western culture was saved by the Christian people. After it was nearly destroyed by the pagans and Muslims.
Hey ya'll did it first so I don't want to hear it. If you don't have what it takes to beat me one on one at least have the stones to bow out like a gentleman.
You can attack the religion say its a fairy tale whatever. But you cannot ignore the simple fact that the Catholic Church is the only reason we still had a written language through out the Middle Ages. And don't say they didn't share they set up this first schools since the fall of Rome and gradually people got smarter, advancements where made the first collage since the fall of Rome was built during the Middle Ages not the renaissance. You can say Christianity held us back but the facts say other wise.
Hey ya'll did it first so I don't want to hear it. If you don't have what it takes to beat me one on one at least have the stones to bow out like a gentleman.
That was in retaliation to having all of my arguments down voted. What do you mean dispute them like me? You mean stating a claim and supporting it with documented facts as evidence? Because that's how I've been arguing.
No that's what I've been doing the whole time. I've been pointing out all the ways Christianity has actually cushioned the blow struck by the fall of Rome and helped move humanity forward throughout the aftermath.
I wouldn't know I have never read up on anything about the language, so you might be right but that's still besides the point, you act as if the Catholics didn't save language we would all be today making grunting sounds like some cavemen, bottom line is we would of created another language, not only that you act like the European languages was all the world knew, how about the thousands of other languages though out the world.
Also you do know America is not all European decedents right?
I'm saying western culture would have been lost and not just Latin but the idea of the republic, roman architecture including concrete, the roman laws and court system, and thousands of years of history.
I find it interesting that it labels the dark ages as the "Christian dark ages" even though the dark ages where caused by PAGIN barbarians ransacking Rome and destroying most of its knowledge. And of course lets all just blatantly ignore the fact that the only reason the Latin language both written and spoken survived to evolve into French, Spanish, and English is because of the Roman Catholic Church. Ever wonder what monks did all day in their monasteries? They copied the bible and wrote many documents for kings and merchants. Wow thank god for Christianity right other wise we would have had to develop a whole new written language before interning the renaissance period. And don't forget that during the renaissance the Catholic Church was still very powerful and influential and in fact contributed to the knowledge gathering with the Vatican observatory the first observatory ever built.
I hope you know the Catholic Church was the masterminds behind the dark ages, if there where ever a organization that withhold science that would be the Catholic's.
Where are you getting you info? I know for a fact Christianity was behind the dark ages, countless history documentations prove this, look I know you might not like to hear that but the truth is the truth, placing the blame on something else isn't going to change the facts, maybe your peace of mind, I guess that's ok for some but please do not spread more lies this world has far then enough already created by man, like the book you are trying to protect.
look if God is out there I am pretty sure you will not be cast into the pits of hell for using the brain he or she created, I would figure God would want us to see though all the lies.
The plague didn't happen because simply people believed in their god. Where is the evidence? Just because people believed at that time doesn't mean they started it and wanted it. I could say, "because people did not believe it was started." What then?
People do many things regarding what they believe in or what NOT they believe in. It goes both ways. Do NOT blame a religion because of a horrible event.
It's like blaming the first human being every to live because the "thoughts" they had were "wrong.evil.[ECT]"; they were in the end the ones that shaped us right!? LOL. C'mon now.
I'm sorry but you are dead wrong, history proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the dark ages was a result of religion, mainly Christianity, the Catholic Church went on a rampage at that time trying to covert every nation it cam across to Christianity and also had a long standing war is the Muslims over what they both deemed as holy grounds, Israel as we know today.
Yes it was humans but what lead the humans to commit those crimes was religion.
Where is your evidence that precisely describes Christianity as the culprit of the dark ages? There is none, only opinionated "value" from those that which despise religion because they belie religion started many, if not all, wars.
Oh my god are you serious? The dark ages happened due to the fall of Rome who brought down Rome well a number of factors really but a multitude of marauding pagan hoards finished it off if it weren't for the church hiding documents away in monasteries all would have been lost. That's a historical fact. Monks were the first teachers since the fall of Rome Tomas equines formed the first public school since the fall of Rome fact. The first collage since the fall of Rome was built in worms France during the late Middle Ages fact. You can say Christianity was the problem but the facts just don't support you. And as for where I'm getting it world history yes even in those compact historical summaries the public education system passes off as a history class you see more that enough proof that the only reason any Roman knowledge survived at all was because of the Catholic Church, and that the resurgence of knowledge started not during the renaissance a time when many people where still Christian and the Catholic church was still one of the most powerful institutions in the land. But it actually started in the period we know as the late middle ages.
PagAn barbarians ransacking Rome and destroying most of its knowledge:
a) Most of that knowledge WAS Pagan: Socrates, Plato, Virgil, Homer, Heroditus, Cicero, Pliny... all Pagans, great christian thinkers prior to the fall of Rome, erm... nope, drawing a blank.
b) The Pagans looted Rome only for gold & valuables, they did not go after the libraries, nor did they set fire to the city. The serious book burning was left to the christians, and later the Arabs (see 'destruction of the great library at Alexandria')
c) English is not derived from Latin, it is a Germanic (pagan at the time) language, such latin-root words we do have were imported from French with the Norman conquest.
d) The Latin Alphabet... developed by pagans.
e) As for your monks writing books (largely christian works, they destroyed all the pagan works on astronomy, mathematics...) at the time of the Roman empire literacy was near universal, the christians on the other hand, jealously guarded literacy and kept it within the church rather than teaching everyone to read and write.
No the vatican was not the first observatory (where do you get this bull?) that was Baghdad, if you discount stonehenge, various greek and babylonian sky gazers etc. etc.
The pagans set fire to the city and that destroyed the library's. and yes most of that knowledge was discovered by pagans so what the pagans also destroyed it google isn't always right.
The whole thrust of this debate is 'Religion / Christianity is bad for learning' my case is that Pagan Rome encouraged science / debate / literacy / learning hence the great thinkers I have listed. Christian Rome (and the Catholic church thereafter) oppressed learning, hence... the dark ages.
Only after the Catholic Church lost it's stranglehold on power did learning take off again. Hence: the Renaissance.
The Catholic Church was a big patron of the arts during the renaissance they embraced it and even pagan Rome rejected things no matter how true that contradicted their beliefs.
OR. 
