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Debate Info

17
20
True dat No they are for our own good
Debate Score:37
Arguments:19
Total Votes:46
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 True dat (10)
 
 No they are for our own good (9)

Debate Creator

PungSviti(552) pic



Religions are mental Viruses

True dat

Side Score: 17
VS.

No they are for our own good

Side Score: 20
2 points

I think when looking at ancient religions (old scrolls) Hermeticm, Daoism, Qabalah and etc, there is something quite different about those "religions" as apposed to modern organized religion. In short the former is much more akin to a philosophy of some kind and the adept is encouraged to look at the creeds and dogmas for himself and meditate upon them.

The Abrahamic organized religions (the big three) as we know them to day are much more focused on telling its adepts what to think and do, and how to keep in line, and how to not think to much about, well, anything. And that kind of religion I think is some form of a mental virus. That is with the meme of said religions the mind of the adept is taken over to serve its masters. In one of Daniel Dennet's lectures ( I think he talks about this in one of the TED lectures) he goes on describing how a bacteria that gets into the brain of an ant "re-wires" the brain so that the ant starts climbing as close as he can towards the sun (the light :) and therefore makes himself more vulnerable to byrds. The bacteria then gains from this for it lives well inside a byrds intestines.

I think this is a great analogy for the mentioned big three religions.

Side: True dat
atypican(4874) Disputed
1 point

I think the practice of worship (within any religious group) is what turns an ordinary bad idea into a catastrophe. I too admire systems that encourage free inquiry.

The Abrahamic organized religions (the big three) as we know them to day are much more focused on telling its adepts what to think and do, and how to keep in line, and how to not think to much about, well, anything

So is it shame on the promoters of the systems, or shame on the people who gave them too much credit?

So back to worship.. what are the signs of a worshiper? How do they behave? For one they readily accept authoritative relationships. A non-worshiper prefers give and take relationships, peer to peer or negotiative if you will. Think of the predominate religious tradition of the sermon, what does it have in common with.....say the lectures you attend?

Side: some good qualities - some bad
PungSviti(552) Disputed
1 point

I think promoters are to blame for a faulty product, and people who give them credit also share some of the blame for not thinking - following authority I think is a short cut to thinking.

I am a big fan of P2P and not so much of the classic school/lecture system and haven't attended a lecture in a while - so point well taken - school systems are corrupt too and generally promote other dangerous mental viruses such as patriotism which is a nice word for nationalism.

Side: True dat
2 points

Yes . God was made up because of the same reason santa claus was made up . To make people behave so that they may not burn in hell . if there is a god then he is an ass .

Side: True dat

Religions are mental viruses in the same way that every idea is a mental virus.

Viruses find a host, propogate, and are spread onto others. During this process they go through small alterations and adaptations that allow them to be passed more easily (evolution) and spread themselves more.

This is true for ideas as well. In this case, our brains are the mechanisms that allow ideas to spread, and ideas compete and evolve so that they too can be spread more widely. Some ideas die out, and some continue and thrive.

This goes for not only religion, but other ideas such as language and ideologies. Even simple everyday customs like shaking someones hand as a greeting can be considered mental viruses.

This is what the a "meme" is. An idea that acts like a virus. This concept was first proposed by Richard Dawkins.

Side: True dat
3 points

Nice post.

When PungSviti typed "religions." It seems like he's referring to belief systems in general. From what I can tell he is trying disparage his least favorite religious groups by condemning religious groups in general which is silly if you ask me.

I suppose I should reply to his post eh? lol

Side: some good qualities - some bad
PungSviti(552) Disputed
1 point

I admit the tagline is quite general (and I admit that I do like to make controverial taglines to spice things up)

But I think I make it clear in my first argument that I am talking about "the big three" and not in general. I have little or nothing against Zen, Daoism, all sorts of meditative "religious" practices, and to many religious practices to name here

To be more clear I think the Abrahamic three and Scientolgy are about the worst of the big ones, and Christianity in the USA especially scares me.

I do meditate myself from time to time and have drawn mostly from Daoism, Zen and Hermetic Qabalah concerning my methods of doing so

So it is not my aim to condem religious groups in general. The tagline was again just to get things going

Side: True dat
PungSviti(552) Disputed
2 points

Richard Dawkins idea of a meme was supposed to be analogus to a gene, not a virus.

Gene´s make up both cellular structures and viruses - viruses are in general distinct from cells in that they are parasites - i.e. not self sufficient.

I agree that meme theory is at least a great analog to evolutionary theory of genes - my point is that some cultural artifacts are meme´s and others are viruses: such as (in my opinion) the abrahamic relgions, piramid schemes of any kind, any kind of known ways to swindle, centrally controlled cults and probaby more things I cant remember.

Side: True dat
3 points

Well, it's not for our own good, but it's not a mental virus.

In fact, a mental virus would be something like schizophrenia.

Religion is a belief. Beliefs are non-physical ideas. Viruses are physical organisms.

So no, religion is not a mental virus.

Side: No they are for our own good
2 points

No, they are just one more way for people to express themselves. People are varied and interesting in what they do. I say let them be.

Side: No they are for our own good
1 point

Some religions are dangerous. And some people, a lot of people, taking a religion the wrong way are dangerous.

These "Mental viruses" are things that are addicting and harmful like porn, drugs etc.

I believe in Christ. Does this make me some zombie? Would you (based on that alone) assume that I am an uneducated fool that ignores science.

If you don't want to go to church fine. Just quit hiding behind what some scientists are saying and try to look for truth instead of going with what sounds good to your comfort.

I really would rather sleep in on Sunday so here's this long copied and pasted article from Wikipedia about a theory saying there can't possibly be a god.

This is a free country nobody is forcing you. Where is all of this hate coming from?

Religion as a whole is a very, very easy thing to criticize. Because they can't all be true.

Side: No they are for our own good
xaeon(1093) Disputed
1 point

"Religion as a whole is a very, very easy thing to criticize. Because they can't all be true."

Just out of interest, what makes you think that your religion is correct?

Side: True dat
PungSviti(552) Disputed
1 point

"I believe in Christ. Does this make me some zombie? Would you (based on that alone) assume that I am an uneducated fool that ignores science."

No I wouldn't assume you where an uneducated fool that ignores science - I would assume you where poorly educated (taught about creation "science" and such) that didn't understand science. And a semi-Zombie; yes

I see you underline "some" in "what some scientist are saying" - I am betting you are referring to that not all scientists think creation "science" is all that stupid - and that again goes to show that if I am correct with my assumptions you are poorly educated.

the hate comment, where it is coming from? - well it seems to me that irrational hatred is mostly spawned from self-righteous religious pack-mentality.

I am not being hateful calling religion a mental retardation - It does have some characteristics of retardation - it makes it so that the person who catches religion has an inability to understand basic concepts - is unbalanced - prone to violence and so on.

You are right about one thing though - Religion is really easy to criticize - the hard part is getting the religious person to understand the criticism. It is like trying to teach your dog how to play chess.

Side: True dat
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
1 point

You are right about one thing though - Religion is really easy to criticize - the hard part is getting the religious person to understand the criticism. It is like trying to teach your dog how to play chess.

I keep hearing "religious person" of what religion exactly? Do you think all religious people are the same?

Is it not hard to get an Atheist to understand criticism?

Side: No they are for our own good
1 point

Just quit hiding behind what some scientists are saying and try to look for truth instead of going with what sounds good to your comfort.

I've already thrown down the gauntlet in the global warming debate, so we might as well address this too.

I am making the assumption that you are referring to evolution. If this is incorrect then let me know.

You claim that only some scientists support the theory? That is just plain wrong. Well over 99.9 percent of scientists agree that evolution is a valid theory that explains very well the mountains of evidence for evolution.

In addition, you tell people to seek the truth, yet you clearly have rejected evolution without knowing anything about it for the mere fact that you perceive it to contradict your beliefs. In effect you are being a hypocrite.

I am not criticizing you for being ignorant on the subject of evolution, only for remaining willfully ignorant when you have plenty of sources that can educate you (the internet, books, school, and if you really want me to, I can explain to you the theory).

People like you are the reason that science education in the U.S. is lagging behind the rest of the world. So if you have questions, about the subject ask and I will be more than happy to answer your questions.

I can understand if you reject this offer however, god forbid you ever actually had to think.

Side: True dat

The big bang theory isn't a mental virus? One belief is and another isn't.

Side: Billions must sick
1 point

They're more like a mental vaccine for a virus that could be ten or twelve times worse, and it has been proven that people with a religion, a very nice one with good morals, generally live longer and happier. God is like a blanket against depression. So is delusion so bad? It seems wrong, but then again, a lot of good things seem wrong.

Side: No they are for our own good
PungSviti(552) Disputed
0 points

please cite the study that states what you said about longevity and religious people

........................................................................................

Side: True dat