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Debate Info

9
4
They do They don't
Debate Score:13
Arguments:13
Total Votes:13
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 They do (9)
 
 They don't (4)

Debate Creator

atypican(4875) pic



Religious apologists deserve credit

I give anyone credit who is willing to put their thoughts out on front street and expose them to the criticism of their opponents. Even if they are IMO thoroughly deluded at least they are not hopeless.

They do

Side Score: 9
VS.

They don't

Side Score: 4
1 point

I mean... sure... I guess... I don't really have that much respect for someone for being religious... I actually don't have any respect, I think it's a bad thing... but I guess it takes some bravery to put yourself out there for that.

Side: they do
atypican(4875) Disputed
1 point

I actually don't have any respect, I think it's a bad thing...

I wonder what you mean by that. How would you have any idea about their positions (to deem them bad or good) if you didn't offer a measure of respect?

Side: they do
E223(193) Disputed
1 point

I mean that I don't have respect for people being religious.

Side: They Don't
1 point

Actually, I really agree here. You know why? Because I'm something of one. Not out loud, just in my head. I don't know what I believe, but apologist things pop into my head all the time, and they often seem logical to me, but I am too embarrassed to discuss them much. Even when I do, people aren't usually willing to follow me into the rabbit hole of reasoning.

Now for a logical reason for my position, rather than personal venting: They are putting themselves out there, and they are attempting to think logically. Isn't that what all of us on here believe in? Granted, they aren't looking at both sides, and are rather trying to rationalize something that the Bible says should be apparent...but I don't think this disqualifies them for deserving respect, because we all have blind spots. Big ones.

On the plus side, thinking about all that, and somewhat openly talking about it, kind of opened up my mind to debunk one of my apologies. Haha. So...thanks Atypican. Got me thinking some more.

Side: they do
1 point

we all have blind spots. Big ones.

I could think of so many ways to say that! :) Such a simple point, so hard to get across.

but I am too embarrassed to discuss them much.

aw come on!

people aren't usually willing to follow me into the rabbit hole of reasoning.

I wouldn't follow you either! :) I would explore with you.

Isn't that what all of us on here believe in?

Participating in logical discourse, differs from blatant propagandizing in that the prior requires respect for the opponents position. Not everyone here is willing to do that. Some wish to be influential so much that they sort of close themselves off to influence.

kind of opened up my mind to debunk one of my apologies.

I don't suppose I could pry that out of you, that would require a confession of misunderstanding which seems (oh so unfortunately) to be one of the rarest things for adults to do. What has become clear to you recently?

Side: they do
1 point

Yeah, I guess that wasn't a great point about "attempting to think logically and putting themselves out there", since it is true that most of us on here are more about looking at both sides than apologists are. But I still have to give them props for trying to come up with reasons rather than just saying, "It's true because it's in the Bible--question it and go to hell".

And as for the "Aw come on!"...If you're really interested, I will consider it. ;P

Side: they do
1 point

If they did, they would already have it. =/

.....................................................

Side: They Don't
atypican(4875) Disputed
1 point

Give me a break, they are over respected. I am in debates right now with people who highly respect some prominent apologetic ministers. IMO they get their opinions practically straight from them. This isn't just giving them some credit, this is on the order of worship.

Side: they do
TyTheTiger(104) Disputed
1 point

They don't have my respect. I don't care if other people do because I don't out source my opinions.

If an apologetic has the respect of someone else, then they deserve it; whatever the reason, they deserve it.

But, they don't have mine because they don't deserve it.

Side: They Don't
1 point

These stats have been thrown around quite a bit, but of the world population 82% are thoroughly convinced one sort of daddy in the sky or another is taking care of them through invisible magic spells and whatnot.

While on the surface it would seem a brave thing to admit one truly believes such a far-fetched idea; when everyone they know, and everyone that people they know know, also believe this silly idea, it becomes incredibly simple to continue the farce.

Now add to that the inherent self-rewarding effect of finding ones who agree with your silly ideas, I would argue it would be more deserving of credit to keep one's insanity to oneself.

Of course though if they did that I could not have nearly as much fun exposing their delusion for what it is ._.

Side: They Don't
atypican(4875) Disputed
1 point

I takes a tremendous amount of patience and diligence to dialog with those who have belief systems radically different then our own. (and ouch we might have to respect them!)And of course in general people will invariably surround themselves with allies (why shouldn't they, because it's self rewarding?)

I infer from your argument that engaging with people who disagree with you is admirable, because it makes it more difficult to continue farces.

So you support what they [religious apologists]do in that they do not simply surround themselves with those who agree with them, but instead actively seek out opposition. You won't give them credit for that?I wonder why!

Side: they do
Awen27(541) Disputed
1 point

Why should one keep ones insanity to oneself? I typically find my insanity shrink slightly when I get it out of my own brain.

I also have to ask: why is someone who disagrees radically with you, even to the extent that you can't imagine why they would think that, necessarily insane? Granted, there are certain beliefs which can be destructive, and also granted that the belief in God has led to a lot of destruction, it is not inherently harmful or damaging. Not as long as it is accompanied by some other basic beliefs(such as "you probably shouldn't kill that guy because he's catholic/protestant/muslim/atheist/yougottheideaalongtimeago."), and so long as the person is stable enough not to become so obsessed with a religion that they take the extremes of it and run.

Side: they do