CreateDebate


Debate Info

231
127
Yes No
Debate Score:358
Arguments:249
Total Votes:413
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Yes (145)
 
 No (102)

Debate Creator

Bohemian(3861) pic



Remove "In God We Trust" from pledge and U.S. Currency

Restore the Pledge and currency to the way it was pre-1954

Yes

Side Score: 231
VS.

No

Side Score: 127
4 points

Well, considering the fact that just about every religion in the world is practiced by people in the U.S we should actually replace "In God We Trust" with "In God, Allah, Buddha, Odin, Thor, Loki, Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Cthulhu, Yog-Sothoth, Azathoth, Ra, Anubis, Osiris, and Set We Trust" or something along those lines. or we could just say "In Every God We Trust".

Side: Replace it
2 points

How would you include the Atheists and Agnostics? Hahaha.

Side: yes
1 point

our nation is founded on christian-judeo values not on values that say screw god

Side: No
protazoa(427) Disputed
1 point

I do not know. Loki is a god of mischief and trickery. I would not trust him to any great extent...

Side: yes
0 points

you are very foolish first off loki does not exist because there is only one god and he does deserve his name on the worlds most powerful nations money

Side: yes
1 point

Honestly, removing it would just create a huge problem and become a much bigger hassle than if we just let it be.

Side: No
0 points

if we said in every god we trust you would offend christians, muslims and jews so think about it

Side: No
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
1 point

Then wouldn't it be better to not have the phrase at all?

Why don't we just use E Pluribus Unum as historically has been the case?

Side: yes
Darksider(39) Disputed
1 point

If they feel offended because the government isn't endorsing their religion over all others, then maybe THEY should be the ones to get out of the country. Though, I doubt that the majority of Christians, Muslims or Jews really care what the pledge says.

Side: yes
3 points

ONe should not have to pledge a belief in God in order to pledge their allegiance to this country. It's that simple. It should be removed from the pledge. It was not in the original pledge, and has been a part of the plesge for less time than it was not part of the pledge so we should undo that mistake.

Same reasoning with the money. It is not the motto of the United States. E Pluribus Unum is and that should be the only thing on our money as it represents what we are far better than In god we trust.

Side: yes
3 points

In Allah we trust!

In Yaweh we trust!

In Thor we trust!

In Zeus we trust!

In Apollo we trust!

I don't support one religion dominating a currency over the other.

Side: yes
2 points

God should not be endorsed by any government function, period.

Side: yes

Superbly said and 100% true.

I wish everyone thought this.

Side: Yes

Yes, because it is favoring one religion over another. Simple as that.

Side: yes
2 points

remove it! get it off the money, get it out of the pledge of allegiance! (it wasnt there originally anyway) keep the church and state separate the way it was intended!

Side: Yes
1 point

It's a no-brainer.

Minus Texas and Alabama rewrites of history, one of the founding excuses to make this a nation was to escape religious states. Even the 50% apx (yeah that's all) of Christian founders who wrote and came up with this country out of deep thought agreed religion should be personal and when it has power it can only do harm.

Putting it on money was a silly, short-sighted, and dangerous political tactic pulled for the sole purpose of convincing idiots to vote a specific way.

I don't believe Jesus ever lived, but being raised turbo super christian and with 18 credits in religious studies from a very academic university,

I can say without any doubt that if that mythical character ever lived, he'd be sickened by present day US- christians.

They'd be the modern version of pharisees... not that any christian today would even know what that reference is.

Side: yes
Billie(790) Disputed
2 points

but being raised turbo super Christian and with 18 credits in religious studies from a very academic university

Seriously, why on earth do you go round inserting this in your posts as if it suddenly validates every bullshit point you make? Its an epic fail and you just appear like an arrogant prick. If you have something interesting to say, don't say it then run and hide behind shit, just stay out there and accept the responses.

I can say without any doubt that if that mythical character ever lived, he'd be sickened by present day US- Christians.

I don't know much about modern day US Christians but from what I get from your bullshit posts I think He'd be more sickened by your horsecrap than by theirs considering you don't even believe in Him.

They'd be the modern version of pharisees... not that any Christian today would even know what that reference is.

In near every post you make you include several jabs at Christians and their lack of knowledge in their faith. What do you even get from that, all it looks like is a poor little atheist who hasn't made shit from life so with his time he pokes at Christians that he doesn't even know and proceeds to judge them as though you are worthy of such a position. What makes you think you know all about each individual Christian and the amount of reading they do of the bible? You don't know so shut the fuck up and get a life.

P.S. I corrected your grammar in this post - you deemed the term 'Christian' as unworthy a few times of a capital 'C' but my spell checker corrected you - funny that, it doesn't do that for 'atheist' does it?

Side: No
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
3 points

P.S. I corrected your grammar in this post - you deemed the term 'Christian' as unworthy a few times of a capital 'C' but my spell checker corrected you - funny that, it doesn't do that for 'atheist' does it?

Does this disparity in capitalization give you a sense of superiority?

Side: yes
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
2 points

1. You keep questioning my knowledge as if I don't know what Christianity is, I was pointing out I understand your religion perfectly, and in fact better than you and most Christians. I explained to you why that is. The other reason is to show that I have perspective on your religion while you do not, meaning I am more able to argue for or against any point of your religion than you are. Which I keep demonstrating like every time your try to argue with me on any of these debates.

2. Well, an old testament god would probably strike me with lightning or whatever, the one from the new testament would be far more interested in what I have to say than yourself though. You're boring. Either way he doesn't exist.

3. I'm on a debate site to debate. I spend about as much time thinking about religion as it takes to type this. It's easier for me because I'm a lot smarter than you and know more about it than you do. Personal attacks, innacurate one at that, have no bearing on this debate other than to highlight how easily Christians are influenced.

4. I don't use spell check and I type very fast. Sometimes I miss something. Christians, christians, Muslims, muslims, Scientology, scientology - they each mean the exact same thing regardless of the size of the letter preceding it and none of these terms are capable of feeling insult whether they are capitalized or not.

Side: yes
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
0 points

repost, site froze

The minimum length for an argument is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible.

Side: yes
Hellno(17758) Disputed
2 points

I don't believe Jesus ever lived

I'm Agnostic and I believe the man lived... he wasn't the messiah of anything, but the man most likely did exist.

Side: No
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
1 point

What proof do you have that would lead you to say "most likely"? There is no evidence from the time period and not a word was written of this person until nearly 200 years after. That's a long time to remember something without the internet, television or even newspapers.

Side: yes
1 point

thank you even if you dont believe hes messiah at least you have enough common sense to know he existed

Side: yes
Freed0m(95) Disputed
1 point

It is established historical fact that Jesus lived, the thing really up for dispute is whether or not he was a divine being. And you assume that because someone is a Christian they won't understand a direct reference from the bible? I agree that many Christians today are the modern version of the pharisees, they are not true Christians. Don't try and act condescending because you believe you have a higher intelligence than all Christians because they believe in something you don't.

Side: No
casper3912(1581) Disputed
1 point

Religious belief requires a certain type of unconscious intelligence, perhaps an instinct is a better word for it but it shows a great deal of sophistication, for in it one finds a masterful self-deception; where needs are meet despite the lack of resources. The mind creates a conviction out of thin air, and from it fuels a life.

The men whom find religious convictions unfulfilling , require more than a set of mere propositions to fuel it. They need an argument, with propositions made from earth and stone. Where else is intelligence as employed, than amongst a labyrinth of logical relations which comprises valid arguments? The nonreligious may lack the aforementioned instinct, and at times starve because of it; but that is because a more conscious intelligence has consumed it out of them...and spat it out.

Not always, but in general; the non-religious are consumed with an intelligence which require more than a religion can provide. Well nearly always, if not always, you will find the same instinct amongst the religious which requires of them nothing but an unfounded conviction.

Side: yes
protazoa(427) Disputed
1 point

1) which very academic university, might I ask?

2) Pharisees- a sect of Jews rather than christians- DO exist today, as Rabbinic Judaism is the progeny of the pharisees of the roman period. And although your assumption that (most) people would not understand your reference may or may not have been correct, generally debaters try to clarify their statements.

For those who are interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees

Side: No
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
1 point

1. Gonzaga

2. I was talking to Christians... are you saying most Christians don't know who the pharisees were? I wasn't trying to confuse anyone tiger.

I was talking about their boisterous insistence on their own holiness while plotting to undermine the actual message of Jesus - how they are portrayed in the bible, which I guess was confusing to someone. The point was, Christians are the same today, they insist on some holy high ground they hold while consistently pursuing social policies that make the earth a grimmer, darker place.

A very simple comparison, not a riddle. Anyone who had actually read the bible should have been able to understand it within my context without looking up a single thing.

Side: yes
1 point

i am a high school freshman i know what you mean and i am a christian. please get your facts straight plus christians are just trying to serve their nation

Side: No
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
2 points

A lot of people are serving the country, atheists, muslims, buddhists, agnostics, satanists, wiccans, all kinds of people including christians,

and some of all of these people are not.

What I see is christians consistantly and endlessly trying to shove not only their beliefs on others, but their beliefs onto the constitution, which is the opposite of the constitution's intent.

So what precisely are you talking about with this silly sentence?

Side: yes

Yes as this question has been asked before twice.--------------

Side: yes

Yes. We as a nation must represent all our population in our pledge. We are not properly representing our polytheistic and athiest population at all.

Side: yes
1 point

This nation is made up of every race, religion, and ethnicity. SO we have to respect that. Not many countries are like that

Side: yes
1 point

Yes, there's supposed to be separation. And you make children, who may not even believe in God, say that every morning at school. It's stupid.

Side: yes
Missspelled(26) Disputed
2 points

No no no.

While I liked the first answer "in every God we trust", it really doesn't matter by putting that word "every" in. They could maybe put in "all Gods" we trust but even that will upset a lot of people. Simply saying "God" is generalized; therefore it is not nevessary to change it.

The ones that want it completely taken out are NOT those who want to respect all religions. They are the ones who want to censor religion, violate the freedom to practice it, and remove it from society. They are the atheists, who think that religious people are intellectally infereior, delusional mental cases.

Side: No
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
3 points

The ones that want it completely taken out are NOT those who want to respect all religions. They are the ones who want to censor religion, violate the freedom to practice it, and remove it from society. They are the atheists, who think that religious people are intellectally infereior, delusional mental cases.

No one is asking to have religion removed from society they are asking to have it removed from government. The framers of this nation believed religion to be a private matter. Religion is a matter between "A Man and his God" only, it is not a matter for the state. I don't think the Government should be making theological statements on behalf of the American people, especially when those statements don't reflect the great diversity which has always been the pride of this nation.

The phrase "In God we trust" was not in the original pledge, to alter the lyrics for religious and political reasons is a great disrespect to the authors of the pledge.

Side: yes
Saurbaby(5579) Disputed
1 point

Um, no. Not saying it at all would be neutral ground. And not everyone refers to their creator, or ruler or whatever, as a god. No matter what words you use you are leaving someone out. But if you don't say anything at all then no one would probably even think about it. And before we continue, I want it out but am not atheists.

Side: yes
1 point

Yes. it should be removed. As we know non of religions do not call people to something bad. Every religion call people for forgiveness and peace. There are some people like terrorist who claim that by killing people u will go to the heaven. But the whole religion cannot be considered this way, as happened in Islam. Islam does not call anyone for war. But burning the Holy Quran was awful. So in what god do Americans trust??

Side: yes
1 point

I don't understand why everyone is arguing about a flippin' motto, have you seen some of the other ones from around the world?

Side: Yes
1 point

Seperate Church from Government. Im tired of having to say it over and over.

Side: Yes
1 point

Yes. This in a way goes against the Establishment Clause in the very first amendment. I am atheist, and never say "one nation under God" in the pledge. I always say "one nation indivisible". This isn't just for atheists and agnostics, some other religions don't just have one God. It's ridiculous to have this as the motto in a free nation.

Side: Yes
1 point

Yes, it never should have been put there in the first place.

Side: Yes
1 point

Should be "in any god we trust" to make it better and more specific.

Side: Yes
1 point

Yes. 'In God we trust' only represents the Christian population(73% of the USA's population), but doesn't represent the whole country. This is especially important as the USA is a democracy, which represents the entire country.

So therefore, it should be removed, as it does not represent the entire country.

Side: Yes
1 point

... and put a legendary atheistic scientist on the $10 notes.

Side: Yes
1 point

It violate the separation of church and state, and yes we have one (look at you, conservatives).

Side: Yes
1 point

It is a violation of the separation of church and state, and as such, needs to be removed from government endorsement.

Side: Yes

Make me ;)

Side: No
protazoa(427) Disputed
2 points

You should not have to worry about that: I am sure we can arrange to have someone else place white-out your currency

Side: yes

How's that white out thing going? I hope it's working out for you ;)

Side: yes
2 points

Trust god in all you do. No matter what it seems like God IS REAL. The rest of the "gods" shouldn't be included as they are not real. People just created them because they were scared of being judged by God. But god doesn't judge you. TRUST HIM IN ALL YOU DO AND HE WILL DO GOOD

Side: yes
BenWalters(1513) Disputed
1 point

I honestly don't know if you're trolling with that answer. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Relgion, and faith, is defined as a belief that you cannot prove. To even suggest that a country where the majority of the people do not believe in something should actively support both that belief and free thinking together is absolutely insane.

Further than that, Christianity started with the birth of Jesus, around 2000 years ago. Both pagan and tribal religions started thousands of years before this, other religions were not started in a response to God's opinions, that's an incredibly self absorbed and ignorant view.

Side: yes
1 point

We should not remove In God we Trust because they that is how we got our freedom that why we are free. Thats how this earth was created thats how we are here today. If it wasn't for God then the world would not be here and also we would not be here.

Side: No
1 point

Why don't we get rid of this government sponsored money and have each individual bank print out their own banknotes. Let each individual bank print whatever the hell they want on the bills and keep the government completely out of it.

I endorse the Separation of Bank and State

Side: No
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
1 point

Let each individual bank print whatever the hell they want on the bills and keep the government completely out of it.

That was once the case in the United States, and it was an incomprehensible mess.

Side: yes
1 point

No, our country was founded because of Christianity. To remove the roots on which this nation was founded on would 1) be disrepectful to those who sacrificed their lives for our current existence and 2) cause unneccessary discord among ourselves. No matter how ridiculous that religion is, we should honor our forefathers.

Side: No
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
2 points

No, our country was founded because of Christianity.

Not according to John Adams.

Side: yes
1 point

Is this a joke?

I take it you don't care about the other people who don't follow your nonsense?

Side: Yes
1 point

No. That would not be a good idea .

Side: No
1 point

Be careful for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your reques be made known unto God. -Philipians 4 : 6

Side: No
0 points

We are a nation that was originally based on Gods teachings, many of the things in our constitution and declaration of independence came from the writer's belief in God.

Side: No
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
5 points

Treaty of Tripoli

Article XI:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

...on January 3, 1797. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797.

Side: yes
Thewayitis(4071) Disputed
0 points

The Treaty of Tripoli was made 21 years later than the constitution on which we declared independence from Britain. Their original intentions will never be known. This Treaty is just as lame as when "All men are created equal." was put in the Declaration of Independence. Not all men were equal then or now.

The date on the Declaration of Independence is written plainly for all to see;

"1776 In the Year of Our Lord"

Side: No
CTEd(15) Disputed
3 points

Our country was not in any way based on God's teachings.

There are 10 unbreakable commandments, not a single one is enshrined in the constitution - not one.

The states never made more than 4 illegal

and 3 of those prohibitions (murder, theft, and perjury) also exist in every civilization on the planet - including those that predate monotheism.

There are seven deadly sins - not one is illegal. In fact greed is encouraged.

Didn't Jesus say "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god" ... I looked for a wealth limit in the Constitution but didn't find any...

Our declaration of Independence says "All men are created equal" which is an anathema to god's teachings (women are inferior, slavery is perfectly fine, etc).

Our Constitution mentions religion only twice - the 1st amendment (separation of church and state) and prohibiting any religious test for any office of the united states. Hardly sounds like a document based on religious teachings.

Side: yes
1 point

you forgot adultry whic is what happens when you rape or cheat on someone oh and the liberty bell has a verse on it

Side: No
SexyBanana(306) Disputed
1 point

We are the exact opposite, we for founded on NOT respecting an establishment of religion.

Side: Yes
SexyBanana(306) Disputed
1 point

You mean the part where we kill all non-believers, or what about the part about slavery?

Side: Yes
0 points

Considering the majority of people believe in a 'God' and the USA is the people's country and serves the majority why should it?

Side: No
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
3 points

Well, for two reasons. The first reason is that to prevent a tyranny of the Majority we have the U.S. Constitution which limits what the government an do, and one of those limits is on the establishment of religion. The second reason is that, the United States is a very diverse nation, we are a nation of immigrants, with many different beliefs, and our motto should reflect that. With such a diverse nation the dangers of sectarianism are greater than ever before. Certainly no group should want their tax money to support an ideology they do not believe. Many people believe in many Gods, many people believe in no gods, are these people not tax paying Americans as well?

Side: yes
hhioh(454) Disputed
1 point

I can understand where you are coming from, but surely your argument is invalid as if we remove it those who believe in God could see it as an attack on them and pro-atheism (thus creating the problem you claim would happen with it in the pledge and currency). This would only create difficulties as those who believe in a God are in the majority in the US. Plus, do you really think a tyranny is being presented by the majority by having a few words in it? Either way, someone is going to be offended (and the believers would be even more so because it would be taking something away, whilst for the non-believers it would merely be adding something - the loss of the believers would outweigh the victory for the non-believers)

Side: No
0 points

In currency it says in God we trust, but you should know in the pledge, if you have ever said it, that it says one nation under God. Now if you have never said the pledge you have no right to be making this debate.

We may have every religion in the world in the United States, but our country was first founded by people who followed Cristianity, and besides there are at least 2 religions that follow the Lion of The Tribe of Juda, and they are christianity, and judyism. All of the other religions follow different gods. so what are the chances of them being right compared to the ones that follow the Lion of The Tribe of Juda.

Side: No
0 points

This amazing place was originally founded on the the beliefs of GOD. I am not anything I don't believe in one thing or another. I grew up in a home where my father didn't believe in God, and my mother does. I grew up saying "In god We Trust" due to the face, when the English man came and settled here it was Christian beliefs the founded. I like having on the money and the pledge cause it reminds me of how we all came to be here. Allah, and all the others or just another name for God in different languages if you think about it. It may explain thing differently, but in the end, they all still pray and talk to the person they believe in. I say do not remove it, cause it reminds us how the USA of founded. Rules of the Bible and God.

Side: No
0 points

Like it or not, this nation was founded on Christian principles. In fact the only reason we have the liberty to worship whatever religion we want is because America is a Christian religion. Just think of it. If America was a Muslim nation, you'd only be allowed to be Muslim. If America was an athiestic nation, you'd be laughed at because you believe in God... Sound familiar? America was based on Christian values,but today we are losing them...

Side: No
4 points

Like it or not, this nation was founded on Christian principles.

Like it or not - no, it wasn't. Is Liberty a Christian principle? Capitalism? Security? Taxation? Representative Democracy? Separation of Powers? Speedy trial by jury of peers? Privacy? Right to Bear Arms? etc. etc.

"no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States" - Constitution

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" - 1st Amendment

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); " - Treaty of Tripoli

Founded on freedom to be Catholic, or Protestant, or Jewish, or Deist, or Muslim, or whatever else...

Side: Yes
2 points

"Like it or not, this nation was founded on Christian principles." Factually speaking, it actually wasn't. It was founded on the principles of Post-Enlightenment Liberalism, originating primarily from political philosophers in Post-Revolutionary France.

"In fact the only reason we have the liberty to worship whatever religion we want is because America is a Christian religion." Actually, the reason we have religious liberty is because of the United States Constitution, which prevents the country from adopting an official religion (Establishment Clause, 1st Amendment).

"Just think of it. If America was a Muslim nation, you'd only be allowed to be Muslim." You realize there are nations that are officially Muslim that do allow people to adhere to other religions, right? Your comment makes me think you don't.

"f America was an athiestic nation, you'd be laughed at because you believe in God... Sound familiar? " Technically, America is somewhat "atheistic", in that, as a country, it does not have an official theistic religion. But that is more semantics than practice.

"America was based on Christian values,but today we are losing them..." Again, no it wasn't. It was founded upon Classical Liberalism, and many of our most influential Founder's (including the architect of the Constitution) were not Christians.

Side: Yes
0 points

sorry, clicked wrong link

Side: Yes
JustIgnoreMe(3632) Clarified
2 points

Did breaking with Britain go counter to Romans 13:1?

"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

Side: Yes
2 points

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

- Thomas Jefferson letter to Danbury Baptists

Side: Yes