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Bible Is True - vs. - Bible Is False
Is the Bible true? Did the Resurrection happen?
I believe the Bible is true, and that the Resurrection happened, but I thought it would be interesting to see other people's belief's and would be interesting to debate.
However, the same accuracy could be claimed while throwing any book at close range, which means either they're all true or they're all no better than kindling.
The Bible is the inspired work of God. It is up to you if you believe it or not, but there is evidence.
1) Mount Sinai was found in the exact same place as described in the bible.
2) The remarkable evidence of fulfilled prophecy is just one case in point. Hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled, specifically and meticulously, often long after the prophetic writer had passed away.
3) Dr. Nelson Glueck, probably the greatest modern authority on Israeli archeology, has said: And I quote
"No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."
4)The remarkable structure of the Bible should also be stressed. Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout.
Yes some of these are copied but I wholly believe them as do many other people!!
It is up to you if you believe it or not, but there is evidence.
belief isnt a voluntary act i can control. You or someone else must convince me.
1) Mount Sinai was found in the exact same place as described in the bible.
London was found in the exact same place mentioned in Harry Potter. your point? Ancient people saw a mountain and wrote it down. if you wanna argue about historical places in the bible ill let you win. They existed. doesnt make anything else in the bible true
2) The remarkable evidence of fulfilled prophecy is just one case in point. Hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled, specifically and meticulously, often long after the prophetic writer had passed away.
What no examples? Not that it matters. Again, this is useless. I can write a story in which the main character dies while fighting a dragon lets say. Then i can flip back to the beginning and write in a part where the main character goes to a gypsy who tells him he will die by a dragon. The prophecy was written in to be fullfilled but none of them can actually be proven. Stories are stories not proof. And the biggest one of all was the prediction of jesus's coming right? The whole suffering servant argument? Well no, the suffering servant was the nation of Israel and it says that like 3 sentances later. Thats the biggest prophecy in the bible and its a sham.
3) Dr. Nelson Glueck, probably the greatest modern authority on Israeli archeology, has said: And I quote
"No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."
1) but have they successfully excavated or found everything in the bible? no. Only the things theyve looked for have they found such as mountains or cities. Whoopie do, we already knew they existed.
2) again, archaeological digs finding little tidbits from the bible dont prove the supernatural elements. these arguments get you nowhere.
3) on a sidenote, i wonder why youre all so ready to accept THESE archaeological findings but you DONT accept all the hominid fossils supporting evolution that we have found the exact same way. hmmm....
4)The remarkable structure of the Bible should also be stressed.
Why? a books condition says nothing about the truth of its contents. Homers: the odyssey and the Iliad are in remarkable condition and have been expertly preserved and nobody is suggesting those are true
Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout.
Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years,
more like 400 authors and thats not accounting for the hundreds of scribes who had to copy it by hand thus leaving it open for alterations as well as translators.
it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout.
No it isnt. its many books about the same topic. There are hundreds of books about dogs, does that mean all of them are one book? No. Different books. same general story. Which is to be expected considering how big the religion is.
As for the consistency part thats a downright lie. The bible is riddled with contradictions whether inside individual books or between multiple books.
Yes some of these are copied but I wholly believe them as do many other people!!
Theyre all copied. ive heard these same tired arguments a million times as most atheists have. Thats because theres no new arguments from theists. There hasnt been a new argument in ages. You just recycle the same crap back at us over and over. Do yourself a favor and read some arguments from the opposing side and youll see just how weak these arguments are. Just because some big wig apologist told it to you or you read it in a book doesnt make it true
Factual descriptions don't certify that the supenatural events mentioned in them are true. A Geography textbook too is factual and true...but adding a statement that someone was resurrected doesn't make that statement true.
He is a rabbi, he is not an independent source of information. He will definitely see what he wants to see.
it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout.
If that were true, why are there different numbers reported in different versions of the same story. Different writers had slight differences in what they said in the Bible. How is that perfect?
Like Warren said. "The Bible is the inspired work of God." I fully believe that the Bible is true, and that it is not not some fantasy book, written millions of years ago.
The people that believe the bible is not true do not think it was written millions of years ago. But your profile says you're a 12 year old boy named Madeline, so I guess everyone should cut you a little slack, eh?
I could write a story book and say that all of it is a true part of history, and then get a large amount of people to agree with me, but does that mean it's true?
The Resurrection Happened, and the Bible is true. There's so much evidence. For one, the Bible is the inspired word of God, and is completely reliable.
If the "big bang" is what started this world how do you explain all the beauty in everything around you? If what the Bible tells us is true (and it is) A marvelous God created this world and he did it wonderfully!
Nonsense and you don't believe it either as I asked Joel if you believe try this test ... Bet you won't ...According to Mark 16:17-18, true believers can drink poison and handle snakes with no ill effects: And these signs will accompany those who believe: ..... But you don't truly believe do you ?
I beliveve in the Bible for sure. And as for those snakes and poison thing: that wasn't literal. Mark is just saying that with faith God can fill you with the Holy Spirit to do amazing things.
Its impossible for a natural occurance to create beauty? Do you think flowers are beautiful? God doesnt bloom every flower. We know exactly how plants grow. Photosynthesis and all kinds of other scientific and natural processes allow flowers to open up their pedals in vibrant colors. We can even control them to produce different flowers with different colors. We can breed them to make new species too. Its all science. no god required. Why would the universe be any different? And if you cant see the beauty in science, physics, space, ect. you live a sad and empty life. I see beauty more deeply than just "Durrr the flower is red, duuurrrrr". i see the red, but i know why its red (the pedals absorb all colors but red so it reflects it back into your eyes), and i see the photosynthesis occuring as light feeds the plant and it syphens water up its roots. Its a miracle right there with no space wizard needed. The world actually becomes really bland when you put god behind it. the real magic is in digging deeper.
LOL! Just how many accounts do you have anyway? It's obvious that these accounts are all the same person trying to convince everyone that there is multiple people that believe the crap you're spewing.
Actually, the only people supporting "Bible Is True" is people I know. We all go to the same church. I invited them to the debate. All are good friends.
Where's your evidence? You're just saying bible this and bible that without giving any exact information why the bible exist?Support your argument and talk to me again.
I've supported them quite enough and will continue to do so. I admit, some of my arguments haven't been very well supported, but there's a lot of mine you probably haven't read that are supported.
Everything that has come to pass on prophesy, word for word is its own verification. Many other things are held for only eyes that have hearts to understand.
If you don't understand the Book then your heart will have a problem.
He is light, If the heart chooses to live in darkness, it won't stand in Eternal Life. It's just simply not possible.
There are no arbitrary rules.
One is seed of darkness the other is seed of light. These seeds produce their own fruits. Bad fruit can't remain.
Satan is the god of this world, God already judged him, any fruit from his seed is already judged because it's the seed of darkness bearing judged fruit of deeds only found in darkness.
Sin is just sin, I don't think God "decides" what sin is. It is what it is, and it just is Darkness, and not Light.
When God made appearances, He never came to show His face, saying even to those who are "righteous" I have to show muself cloaked, and He did things like came in a cloud, or showed only His back. No one can see him and live!
God isn't having a temper tantrum, or being tyrinical. He is instructing us, who choose Eternal Life with Him on how to stand and remain, when we come face to face, before Him, knowing, what happens to darkness in His presence!
God is light. There are deeds of light and there are deeds of darkness.
Deeds of darkness grow from seeds of darkness.
What God defines as sin is the form born from seeds of darkness, which take root, and grows into and taking it's own ugly form.
God didnt create sin. And I don't think He created darkness either. Darkness just coexists, and when Satan fell into the darkness his light went out. Darkness overcame him. Sin is the the fruit from a seed born in darkness.
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
40 Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
42 “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43 But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
The evidence supporting Christianity is the Bible, that is true... but the same could be said for other religions. The Qur'an is evidence for Islam, Vedas are evidence for Hinduism, Tripitaka is evidence for Buddhism and so on. Throughout history, many books have been proven to be wrong. What makes you think that the Bible doesn't just consist of made up stories?
Celsus (178 AD) on Jesus's Miracles: "Jesus, on account of his poverty, was hired out to go to Egypt. While there he acquired certain [magical] powers... He returned home highly elated at possessing these powers, and on the strength of them gave himself out to be a god... It was by means of sorcery that He was able to accomplish the wonders which He performed... Let us believe that these cures, or the resurrection, or the feeding of a multitude with a few loaves... These are nothing more than the tricks of jugglers... It is by the names of certain demons, and by the use of incantations, that the Christians appear to be possessed of [miraculous] power..."
He never denied Jesus's miracles, just where his power came from or how they only appeared to be miracles. Although this was written a hundred years after his death, it is very important because he couldn't deny that Jesus did miracles. The stories were still being told about him. Even a Roman author not believing in Jesus, their wasn't enough evidence for him to deny the miracles, only where his power came from.
His existence isn't in question as much as his miracles are... but keep in mind that there is documented evidence and first-hand accounts of Bigfoot, aliens, the Moth-man, ghosts, pixies, werewolves, elves and even leprechauns. My point is that just because people say they saw something, that doesn't always mean they really did.
Different religions throughout time, specifically Egyptian and Greek, used to take their Gods and put them on Earth. If you look at certain ancient texts, there are stories of their Gods walking among them, socializing and so on. This could have been the case with Jesus. Keep in mind that people still thought the world was flat back then, that is why Hell was believed to be under us. Now we know that the world is in fact spherical and we also have a pretty good idea of what is beneath us.
The Bible IS true and is not just made up text. You know God is true, so do I. So God being true, so is the Trinity: God, Son of God-Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit inspired people to write the Bible. The Bible is trust worthy. I challenge you this: Go to any library, as much library's as you want, and I want you to get me a collection of 66 Books. 66 Books written by several authors. 66 Books written in three different continents. 66 Books that are accurate to history. 66 Books that all have the same theme and point to the one true God. If you can find a collection like that, I would believe that the Bible is false.
obviously, that 'challenge' wasn't literal. And yes I actually do know ""
GuitarGuy, if your just going to be a huge joke please just be done with this debate. I have the right of being "stuck on repeat." There's nothing wrong with that.
You know for an absolute fact that god exists and everything in the bible is true? liar. you have no evidence or proof. You THINK or maybe have even convinced yourself its true but you dont KNOW. dont act like you do
GuitarGuy, if your just going to be a huge joke please just be done with this debate
He wasnt joking really. The way he came off as to you is exactly how you come off as to us. A joke.
I have the right of being "stuck on repeat." There's nothing wrong with that.
Sure but if you want people to take you seriously you actually have to back up your statements, not just repeat them
I can't change your heart, but the Lord can.
1) the heart pumps blood and does no thinking whatsoever, theres nothing to change. i think youre talking about the mind.
2) If you dont think you can or wont then why are you on a debate site? What is there to accomplish if you yourself think your mission is futile?
I'm praying for you, and everyone else. :)
magic words dont work. nothing will happen but if it makes you feel better go for it
(Have a good night, bro!)
why put this in parenthesis?
-Joel
yeah we know it was you who wrote it. we see your username
NO! The Bible is the inspired work of God. It is up to you if you believe it or not, but there is evidence.
1) Mount Sinai was found in the exact same place as described in the bible.
2) The remarkable evidence of fulfilled prophecy is just one case in point. Hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled, specifically and meticulously, often long after the prophetic writer had passed away.
3) Dr. Nelson Glueck, probably the greatest modern authority on Israeli archeology, has said: And I quote
"No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."
4)The remarkable structure of the Bible should also be stressed. Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout.
Yes some of these are copied but I wholly believe them as do many other people!!
Hey, Joel lee! You have a bunch of accounts don't you?
1) Mount Sinai was found in the exact same place as described in the bible.
Well, at least they didn't lie about the landscape lol... oh, wait... what about the Garden of Eden? That one hasn't been found yet.
2) The remarkable evidence of fulfilled prophecy is just one case in point. Hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled, specifically and meticulously, often long after the prophetic writer had passed away.
A lot of prophecies have been fulfilled from a lot of different sources. I assume they were just guessing considering how ambiguous most of their interpretations actually are.
"No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."
I'm sure a lot of the stuff in the Bible is true... but most of it probably isn't. Mainly the mystical stuff... walking on water, water into wine, rising from the grave, etc,.
4)The remarkable structure of the Bible should also be stressed. Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout.
The supporting evidence for the bible is the bible? do you even understand why that makes no sense at all? If you have a piece of information from a source you must support it with evidence from anywhere BUT that source. And archaeology has only found things and places that are mentioned in the bible. so what? it doesnt make the stories theyre based on true. for instance Homers: The Odyssey. Its based on Greece and Greek figures and culture but its about gods and monsters.
If archaeologists found, for instance, the cross jesus was crucified on. That would only prove that he was crucified. NOTHING else. You cant just prove one little thing and say the whole bible is true
I don't agree with you overall (I still think there is more corrupted with the Bible), but what you are saying is reasonable. Good job. Seriously, no sarcasm. :)
The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible.
I like the idea that she denounces the Bible when it is used for war propaganda and political abuse. That is the main problem I have with the Bible, that it is used for abuse. Plus, it makes our position look better if she cherry picks.
I have to tell you, Matt 24 and Luke 17 is clear deception is a HUGE part of the end times. If you are decieved it's actually judgement.
And if you tach others so they stumble, we'll that's even worse!
You may want to rethink what God is actually saying in His Word.
He is pouring out judgement and if you look at
Luke 17
Two in the bed 1 taken 1 left, where are they taken?
Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
34 I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.” 37 And answering they *said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures
will be gathered.”
He has already poured several bowls in Revelations, and already opened many seals!
If you ""can see,"" it's as IF overnight, like a THIEF in the NIGHT
The world changed! And churches " the abomination of desolation" is evident and they are dead men walking and their LIGHTS JUST WENT OUT! And if they don't respond they will be thrown into the sea with a millstone on their necks!
Judgement has come, we are in it! Read and study, if your not born again, sit in front of Him till you are. And ask Him for eyes to see!
To all those who do not believe the Bible is true, does it really make sense that all this could have been created without God? I mean, look at it. The only explanation modern science has for creation is the Big Bang theory, but it has to do with a time before that, which makes no sense. There has to have been something before that, just going by that theory.Now, does that make sense? The Law of Conservation of Matter states that matter cannot be created or destroyed.That would be the same for energy, if I'm correct, which would mean that the whole theory of the Big Bang is completely wrong, unless something CREATED the energy.
So it's all false ? Ok why don't you go and get your noble prize for disproving the Big Bang theory and wow you proved it so brilliantly ! And hey why don't you ask the clown in the sky to show up for the awards , it should be a great night for you's all ( don't forget to give him a little credit ) .....
Hey I wasn't being sarcastic if you have proved science wrong why not claim your prize ? Your after saying it again " refusal of what is true " so if your right all science is wrong so don't be all shy , claim your prize ... Can I have an invite ?
I have to tell you, Matt 24 and Luke 17 is clear deception is a HUGE part of the end times judgement! Look at His judgement in the prophets and look what Jesus said.
They will stumble at noon, grope like blind men!
Judgement is being delivered over to your own way till it consumes you like a lioness tearing up, and the mind of beasts will be given.
Those who HAVE UNDERSTANDING WILL SHINE LIKE THE SUN AND LEAD MANY TO RIGHTEOUSNESS!
While others will be overcome by the darkness and not even know it till it's too late! It will be like 10 virgins waking up to meet the Bridegroom, 5 will turn their lamps on and burn their lights and set it on for all to see, and 5 will wake without oil "AND GO TO BUY IT, AND THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO GET IT! If you have EARS to HEAR you will have eyes to understand!
If you are decieved it's actually judgement.
And if you tach others so they stumble, we'll that's even worse!
You may want to rethink what God is actually saying in His Word.
He is pouring out judgement and if you look at
Luke 17
Two in the bed 1 taken 1 left, where are they taken?
Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
34 I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.” 37 And answering they *said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures
will be gathered.”
He has already poured several bowls in Revelations, and already opened many seals!
If you ""can see,"" it's as IF overnight, like a THIEF in the NIGHT
The world changed! And churches " the abomination of desolation" is evident and they are dead men walking and their LIGHTS JUST WENT OUT! And if they don't respond they will be thrown into the sea with a millstone on their necks!
Judgement has come, we are in it! Read and study, if your not born again, sit in front of Him till you are. And ask Him for eyes to see!
No, I am not, but how in the world do you think it could happen? I mean, energy cannot be made from nothing to something just magically without something else making it, so at one point, something had to have made it, right?
Now, who said I was upset? I just think you're silly. I mean, I pretty much HAVE proved you wrong, but you keep saying that I "proved science wrong," which is inaccurate and sarcastic. I just told you that the Big Bang theory is inaccurate, and does not make sense.
You really are not getting this are you the " Big Bang "is science which you said is inaccurate , so yes you are saying you proved science wrong but you really are finding your own words hard to understand , try reading what you said again and you keep saying you proved everyone including me wrong who believes in the Big Bang , so again why not get your groundbreaking paper published it will make you famous, because your not just proving me wrong but the whole scientific community. If you can't understand this get someone to help you with it .
Okay, well think about this: So, if the Big Bang really happened, then the universe has constantly just been compressing itself into a minuscule dot, then rapidly expanding in a cycle forever, and never was created by anything that science could explain. If you can tell me that this make sense, then I guess you have the right to your opinion and I'll leave you be, but I can't see the logic in that.
Everyone has a right to an opinion but where I get annoyed if someone says there right just because they say so ....you keep saying science can't explain but science does a pretty good job of explaining why not look at any of the info out there by scientists , just forget religion for once and look at a science site just google Big Bang don't you owe it to yourself ? By the way all these ideas are not mine there from the minds of some of the greatest thinkers in history .
75 days later... 75 days later, I realize something... I was right. I was right in the beginning. You said science gave a good job explaining... But it doesn't. It doesn't at all! You. You give me evidence. You research. I've researched 75 days. And my research points to this: You. Were. Wrong.
o exellant point in that theory sweety okay here we are tht its proven energy cannot be created neither destroyed laws haven proven this time after time and if u believe that is true then u cannot honestly believe in god because there wuld be a depletion of life on eart as spirits went to heaven because dear if energy cannot be created and neither destroyed we cannot flourish here wile our souls escape to heaven
No clue. Only He can know that. Maybe He has always existed. As a being not created through science, maybe He doesn't have an end. Like He said, He is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, from Everlasting to Everlasting.
Why can't the universe have always existed? It seems more likely since we already know for certain it exists. Unless we gather any further evidence we shouldnt assume something else created it
The Bible is he foundation for the laws of logic. The Law of non Contradiction in a law of logic, therefore if the Bible isn't true, the Bible is true.
You don't your only saying it if you did as I asked the others do as your book asks According to Mark 16:17-18, true believers can drink poison and handle snakes with no ill effects: And these signs will accompany those who believe: .... But you don't truly believe Jacob ... Wake up
If God wanted you to, yeah, you could. I have no reason to test it, I was never lead by the spirit to do it so.... yeah... If I do that, I'll most likely die....
Saying that evolution is false because you can't see Dinosaurs means you are an idiot. Congratulations. I am sorry I couldn't watch passed the first 4 minutes, but it was pretty obvious that the person making the video was a huge asshole.
plus ur point that u cant see dinosaurs contradicts the point tht u cant see god we have dinosaurs bones u have no proof of god but a bible tht states itself man wrote the passages
Actually, I don't want to watch this. I don't know how God created all of this, but it COULD HAVE been evolution. Besides, there are dinosaurs in the Bible, if that is what this is about. Check out http://clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml .
As a Christian, I do believe that the Bible is true. I know that much of it is intended to be more symbolic than literal, but I don't think that affects its legitimacy.
I don't. I think that the Bible is true. I dunno if any of it is just symbolic. I mean, if there is an omniscient and omnipotent God, why would these things be incapable of happening?
You disputed my research, yet provide me with links to things that I've already read and seen. And everything that you've sent me has already been disproven. See carm.org. See the Bible difficulties for the "contradictions."
Recent creation, btw, is kinda a weird thing to say. If I take everything in the Bible as literal, then what about how it states in Psalms that a day to the Lord is 1000 years to us. I also want to point out the lack of a word for "million" or "billion" in the ancient Hebrew language.
Evolution: I do believe it is possible that God used a process similar to evolution, only He was involved. I mean, man did come after the animals. Maybe I shouldn't have said that everything was to be taken literal. What I should have said is that Moses possibly did not describe it well. It says that God creates man from dust. Dust is small, right? Guess what else is small. Bacteria. So, maybe God created all creatures from a single bacteria.
Logic: Do I believe in things that are not logical? You put your faith in another man's words. Things that you didn't test. Things that you didn't experience. If you believe in the Big Bang theory, you believe that the entire universe came to be from nothing, which contradicts the Law of Conservation of Energy. I, on the other hand, put my faith in God, whose creation story makes sense. Being that there is an omnipotent and omniscient being, one cannot say that laws of our science apply to Him. He is omnipotent. Not omnipotent to the extent of science.
If I take everything in the Bible as literal, then ...
Then are you saying that now you belive some parts of the bible are symbolic? If so, then I'll reiterate my prior question:
How do you decide which parts are literal and which are symbolic?
what about how it states in Psalms that a day to the Lord is 1000 years to us.
Even if each "day" of creation was 1000 years that would only add 7,000 years to the Ussher dating and would result in a universe that is only 13,000 years old.
Do you believe that all of these lines of evidence are wrong enough to allow for that age?
I also want to point out the lack of a word for "million" or "billion" in the ancient Hebrew language.
The Torah uses several multiples of thousands including 10's of thousands and 100's of thousands.
man did come after the animals
That depends on which chapter of Genesis you are reading
I do believe it is possible that God used a process similar to evolution
Do you believe that fish evolved into tetrapods?
If you believe in the Big Bang theory, you believe that the entire universe came to be from nothing
The Big Bang theory does not purport to explain the origin of the universe.
I, on the other hand, put my faith in God, whose creation story makes sense.
Then are you saying that now you belive some parts of the bible are symbolic? If so, then I'll reiterate my prior question:
How do you decide which parts are literal and which are symbolic?
I can't. How do you determine which parts of science you believe and which you don't? Lol, silly question. Most of science agrees with itself.
Even if each "day" of creation was 1000 years that would only add 7,000 years to the Ussher dating and would result in a universe that is only 13,000 years old.
Do you believe that all of these lines of evidence are wrong enough to allow for that age?
The 1,000 and the lack of a word for million or billion were connected.
The Torah uses several multiples of thousands including 10's of thousands and 100's of thousands.
However, this does not account for the word billion. This would be a thousand of a thousand of a thousand... The Torah doesn't get much higher than what you said.
That depends on which chapter of Genesis you are reading
Not really. Read on the link I sent you.
Do you believe that fish evolved into tetrapods?
Well, why wouldn't I? Fish did come before land animals in both modern science and the Bible.
The Big Bang theory does not purport to explain the origin of the universe.
Right, right. It just says that it came from a rapid expansion of all of the compressed energy, which, by your beliefs, has always been there. But, science dictates a beginning of it... So... Yeah... How'd it come from nothing?
Only if you don't question it.
Not really. Every time I question it, I get an answer. An answer which makes sense. Unlike the above.
Yes, but I saw no way in which it was dispositive of which words were last - they seem to just assert it. And there is no explanation why there are 3 different "last words" given in the 4 gospels.
this does not account for the word billion
Without the word billion, they could still have said 100 thousand times 140 thousand and have reached the correct approximate age similar to the way other parts of the bible do (Daniel, 1 Chronicles, Revelations, etc.) Surely an omniscient god could have helped them with this, no? So, is it safe to assume that you concur with the scientific calculation for the age of the universe?
Not really. Read on the link I sent you. {re: Genesis 1 vs Genesis 2}
Of course I checked it, but as you can see, it offers no method to resolve the contradictions, it only asserts that there are none. I think they are misleading, if not outright lying to the reader when they say "Genesis two is a recap and a more detailed explanation of the sixth day". It specifically disagees with Genesis 1 on whether trees were created before or after man and whether land and air animals were created before or after man.
Well, why wouldn't I? {re: fish to tetrapod evolution}
Since the bible says that animals reproduce "after their kind", some of the people on this site who believe the bible is literally true tend to assert that only evolution within kinds is possible and not larger evolutions like fish to tetrapod.
by your beliefs, has always been there. But, science dictates a beginning of it
There are several hypotheses which are still being evaluated - e.g. the Hartle-Hawking no boudary condition, the cyclic models, the multiverse models, Black-hole cosmology, etc.
Yes, but I saw no way in which it was dispositive of which words were last - they seem to just assert it. And there is no explanation why there are 3 different "last words" given in the 4 gospels.
I understand how you would come to that conclusion. However, the page looks for time clues, such as "45 the sun being obscured ..."
Without the word billion, they could still have ...&Of course I checked it, but as you can see ...
First, I want to point out the words "Correct approximate." That is an oxymoron.
Second, check this site. It might have the answers you are looking for.
Third, about Gen. 1 & Gen. 2. It says that God created a Garden directly after land. This means that the Earth was not filled with the creations. So, Man was the last to fill the Earth and leave the Garden. Possibly man was made first in the Garden, and helped God name all of the creatures and designate their purpose.
Fourth, I want to cover this: Surely an omniscient god could have helped them with this, no? God probably is more focused on salvation of the people on Earth right now as opposed to the enlightenment of how the world works. I'm sure that God probably will tell us the secrets of how He did it. When we get to Heaven, at least. At this point, though, we have to get to Heaven first.
Since the bible says that animals reproduce ...
Yep, normally animals yield offspring similar to themselves. However, genetic mutations occur, and over time I guess that a fish could.
the page looks for time clues, such as "45 the sun being obscured ..."
Time clues can only be compared if they exist in more than one version of the story.
"Correct approximate." That is an oxymoron
people certainly understood the intent. I tend to not be much of a stickler for semantics unless they are important to the discussion. 14 Billion is a more correct approximation and would have been achievable with their existing language.
check this site
It is more evidence that many things in the bible should not be taken literally. It does not address the parts of Genesis which contradict science - like the earth with trees and night and day existing before the sun existed - which are generally just dismissed with God is magic arguments, nor does it address the contradictions within Genesis itself (nor the Bible as a whole).
about Gen. 1 & Gen. 2
Genesis 1 {re: man or animals first}
"25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. ..."
Genesis 2 {re: man or animals first}
"18 Then the Lord God said, 'It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.' 19 Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name."
"Proof that it is not a creative account is found in the fact that animals aren't even mentioned until after the creation of Adam. Why? Probably because their purpose was designated by Adam. They didn't need to be mentioned until after Adam was created."
Is that a resolution of the contradiction or an admittal that some things are wrong, but it's probably just a story-telling device so no need to concern yourself?
God probably is more focused on
It is not very important to our discussion so I won't harp on it much, but what you seem to be saying here is that God (who is all-knowing and all-powerful and is outside of our time/space and yet omnipresent in it) was busy...
genetic mutations occur, and over time I guess that a fish could.
You are quite a bit less literal than your initial post led me to believe. I guess since you do no think reproducing after their kind is not prohibitive to evolution, we will just have to agree to agree :)
There are several hypotheses ...
Yes, and all of them are simpler and therefore more probable than the God hypothesis.
God used to be the cause of lightning, thunder, asteroids, earthquakes, rainbows, volcanic eruptions, illness, etc. until we understood them; I see no reason to believe that the origin of the universe is not similarly attributed to god simply because of our ignorance.
Realized that this did not do as I thought. What I think is that Genesis 2 happened during the days when God was creating land, then plants, then animals. If He's created a garden, then He has a template for the animals, and He can(I don't like using this terminology) copy-paste these things onto the world. Also, in the garden, if man is made, then man can dictate how the animals and plants be named and such.
Time clues can only be compared if they ...
They do, and are pretty much consistent from what I read, with only one going further and saying the quote I gave you. However, I understand that this provides an inconsistency.
So, I take it you disagree with the CARM.org analysis that it is describing the 6th day?
Do you agree that
"18 Then the Lord God said, 'It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.' 19 Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.",
has man existing before animals and is not in accordance with the chronology of Genesis 1?
with only one going further and saying the quote I gave you
The one relevant to discerning which last words were actually last is "the sun being obscured" which does not occur in any of the other versions - so it remains impossible to tell.
I assume people will just chalk it up to Jesus magic, but it would otherwise seem a blatant contradiction to have
"And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, into Thy hands I commit My spirit." And having said this, He breathed His last." (Luke 23:46)
and
"When Jesus therefore had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head, and gave up His spirit." (John 19:30)
To me it seems far more probable that the chronologically older books, Mark then Matthew, which agree on the last words:
"And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?",
were subsequently changed by the writers of Luke and John - likely to convey something other than a forsaken Jesus.
Sent you another link on godandscience.org. Here it is again, though.
The one relevant to discerning ...
This is possibly to convey how big what was going on was. Also, it could have been that Luke and/or John got the account of someone who visited Him while He was on the cross after whoever heard: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"
I saw it - the second part that begins "Do you agree that ..." was my response. It is probably phrased better in the other post I just sent.
Mostly I was trying to get a fuller understanding of what your position is.
it could have been that Luke and/or John got the account of someone who visited Him while He was on the cross after whoever heard: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"
I allow for the Luke or John account to occur after the Mark/Matthew account, but the Luke and John accounts are exclusive of each other since they both recount the last words followed by the death.
Yes, I understand. However, I feel as if they do not contradict each other, and both are correct. The second either is not chronological, or the Garden theory.
I allow for the Luke or John ...
Perhaps they happened at the same time(Not exact same time, but in the same moment.) What if after He said "It is finished," He bowed His head and said "Father, into Your hands I commit my spirit." I mean, that makes sense, as He bowed His head and said this to the Lord.
The second either is not chronological, or the Garden theory.
Even if it takes place in the Garden, one has man existing after animals and the other has man existing before animals. We may just have to agree to disagree on that one.
If you are saying that you believe the bible to still be inerrant, I believe a further comparison between the contradiction lists from before (here and here) and the carm.org site (or others) would yield additional items that are unresolved.
Perhaps they happened at the same time
That would require the watcher in the version eventually recorded in Luke to hear "Father, into Your hands I commit my spirit." and not hear "It is finished",
and the watcher in the version eventually recorded in John to hear "It is finished" and not hear (or convey hearing) "Father, into Your hands I commit my spirit.",
(and would still presume that the watcher(s) depicted in Mark and Mathew heard neither of those two quotes.)
I would think that the last words of the Messiah would be of fairly high import. If there is such incongruity with the last words of Jesus, how can we be certain of the other words attributed to Him?
It would not explain the evolution of animals that were land animals before they were sea animals - e.g. whales
That is a very interesting statement. Perhaps the aquatic mammals came from the animals that were being prepared to become land mammals and wound up not.
Birds did not come before land animals
Who's to say that wings could not have came from the fish's fins?
There is no evidence of 1000 year old humans
Is there evidence against, besides our own lives?
--- --- --- --- --- --- ---
I contemplated what I said, and wound up realizing this: Business is not a problem for an omniscient and omnipotent being. So, possibly there is a reason He doesn't just let us know. Possibly because of: As God, He doesn't want us to just love Him because we love Him. Or, possibly, He wants us to try to find out ourselves while here, and when we get to Heaven, He will tell us the exact way that He did it.
It is certainly better than carm, but even allowing a separate plant creation for the garden of eden, "Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air" would seem to result in two creations for land and air animals with opposing chronologies.
Perhaps the aquatic mammals came from the animals that were being prepared to become land mammals and wound up not.
You should probably check out some information related to whale evolution:
The wikipedia article can serve as a fuller overview/jumping off point.
Who's to say that wings could not have came from the fish's fins?
Mostly scientists ;) Birds evolved from theropod dinosaurs.
Is there evidence against, besides our own lives?
our own lives should not be fully discounted, but there is certainly other evidence - mostly through the science of bone histology (including lines of arrested growth, etc.)
See below. Birds have different chronologies in science as well, right? They split of from the theropods, the bipedal dinosaurs.
You should probably check out some ...
These are very eye-opening articles, actually. Thank you for sending them so that I may read them. However, the Bible does not say that the land animals did not evolve into whales. Possibly, what could have happened is that the dinosaurs roamed before the birds and land animals, and the birds evolved from the bipedal theropods before the livestock, rodents, and such evolved from the quadrupedal dinosaurs. Also, possibly, the whale emerged from the predecessor of the Indohysus, as it came relatively early, probably before livestock, rodents, and such.
Mostly scientists ;) ...
I realized the mistake that I made and addressed it above.
our own lives should not be fully discounted
Well, obviously the conditions were very different that long ago. So, the conditions could have been to where we could have lived 1,000 years. Especially if we were very healthy(food-and-exercise-wise), as I suspect we would have had to have been.
Birds have different chronologies in science as well, right?
In science, different species of bird have their own chronologies, but they all trace their origins back to the species of bird that mutated from theropod dinosaurs, so there would be no birds prior to the existance of theropod dinosaurs.
the Bible does not say that the land animals did not evolve into whales
Genesis 1:20-23 (King James Version)
"20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day."
So the bible says that God created whales and birds on the 5th day before any land animals (like theropods or Indohysus) existed.
the dinosaurs roamed before the birds
See above
possibly, the whale emerged from the predecessor of the Indohysus
See above + Whales are warm-blooded mammals and decended from warm-blooded mammals. Mammals evolved from amniotes which lived on land.
the conditions could have been to where we could have lived 1,000 years. Especially if we were very healthy(food-and-exercise-wise)
We have lots of information about the conditions of the environment in the past from fossils, ice layers, coral, etc.
Today, even the most healthy people rarely live into their 100's. We have several ways to determine the age of an animal at the time of its death that would show some indication that humans (and/or other animals) lived 10 times there present lifespan.
Considering that the books of the Bible were written by different people, in different geological locations, at different times, and yet still harmonizes with one another -- one must certainly give it the benefit of the doubt. At the very least.
The Bible is a book from God and therefore, is 110 percent accurate of its content.
This is why.
The Bible is a book or a collection of books really that had 40 different writers with different backgrounds living in different times and in many different locations. The earliest writings of the Bible is around 3500 years ago. Although, the writers and the times change one thing that remains consistent is they all claim to have been inspired by God in their works.
In Job 26:7 The earth is decribed as hanging on nothing.
Today it is common knowledge that the earth does indeed hang on nothing, but is being manipulated by the gravity pull of the sun. In those days, mankind did not have the technology to discover this fact.
So how did Job know this when no one else knew? Tell me.
Furthermore, in Isaiah 40:22 the earth is described as a circle. Now hang on! Wasn't Christophor Columbus the one that discovered this scientific fact?
Well sorry to burst you bubble, but Isaiah seems to have won the race thousands of years before Chris C.
Concerning the scientific facts above the Bible seemed to be 100% accurate.
Many prophecies have been foretold by the Bible and all of which have been fulfilled and recorded in the Bible. Now I could post it here but you can just Google it.
The Bible also offers perfect advice for difficulties in life. Now I am sure if you study the Bible more you will see why.
The Bible also never will contradict itself just like God. If you do find something that seems to contradict in the Bible. I am sure if you study it you will find out that they don't.
People who claim that the Bible is false or who do not answer this question with Scripture proof are people who never read or who do not understand the Bible. Yet, they act as if they are experts of the Bible.
I take from attempting to read some of the arguments of the bible being false, that there are many who either don't read their bibles or are just leaning on what they may have remembered through the years..much of which is based on false teachings and much misrepresentation.
your argument is more than what i wanted to say as it relates to historical undisputed bible facts. 110% factual. but like you know there are those who just like their ears tickled''
some of their arguments are what the bible warns us about'' the philosophy of men'' Mark chapter 7 verse 7 and the traditions' 1 CORINTHIANS chapter 3 verse 19, 20 for the wisdom of this world is foolishness' and Jehovah knows that the reasoning of the wise men are futile'
'when you talked about what was written in the bible book of Isaiah 40' 22 .it clearly proved that Christopher Columbus and those on that voyage did not read the bible''
,It is a pleasure to read and argument like yours especially when you know what you are talking about'' from the greatest source gods word the bible...PROVERBS 3 verse 13 ''happy is the man that has found WISDOM' and the man that gets discernment...
IT IS TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT IS TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are your thirteen more
God doesn't usually change His mind unless there is a very good reason. (In Genesis and, of course, you wouldn't want to read anything relate to it.) No problem.
Of course, no duh, everyone needs to be punished for what they did wrong. However, that was before the death of Christ. After Christ died, He told us to forgive each other, like He forgave our sins. The nine "fruits" you are talking about are the characteristics we are suppose to have, and, yes, God is like that too. He is jealous and vengeful because His children are not looking at Him and are being influenced by "evil", when He is the real one who gave what we have, whether you believe it or not.
everyone needs to be punished for what they did wrong (emphasis added)
you skipped the part where sometimes God says you should only get punished for your own sins and sometimes God says you should be punished for what your great-great-grandparents did - I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me
God is like that too
Can you be a jealous, vengeful, angry God who blames children for things they didn't do (original sin, sins of the fathers, etc.) and kills (and orders to be killed) children and pregnant women, etc. and still be a God of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control at the same time?
He is the real one who gave what we have, whether you believe it or not.
If I say Santa Claus is real "whether you believe it or not", does that make it so?
I'm Joel's Dad and want to let you know he's only 12 years old. I just found out he was posting here a couple days ago. I have not read through all the posts here, so maybe he mentioned that he's only 12, maybe not. In any case, I'm proud of him. He's an amazing kid. Has skipped a grade, can jam on the piano, sing, and act. And he knows the Lord. I probably should have put that first. I just want to say that the biggest problem in this kind of debate is that no amount of argument will convince any unbeliever because they have chosen to believe against evidence. The fact that you spend this much time arguing against something that you say doesn't exist shows you're very biased against that One who DOES exist. God has already spoken to this saying the nations "rage against the Lord and his anointed one (Christ)" (Psalm 2). The unbeliever, by nature, is a "child of wrath" (Ephesians 2) and as opposed to God as Satan. So, you're reactions and dishonesty, and unwillingness to consider the evidence that is mountainous shows that God's word is true about you.
Your conscience (God's moral law within) is a great proof of God, as is the astounding creation and all the inter-relationships of the natural and physical realm, which could never have occurred without the First Cause, God Himself. But you will believe it happened all by itself - well that's not only unscientific, but it's irrational. As for the resurrection, it can be proven along a couple of historical or legal lines of evidence quite soundly. For example, it was proven using the laws of evidence by one of the co-founders of the Harvard Law School, Simon Greenleaf, Jewish man who can to faith THROUGH STUDYING THE GOSPELS' TESTIMONY TO THE EVENT. The slight differences between the gospels are actually credits to their veracity. If they said the same thing at every point it would be said there was collusion (Read Greenleaf on this in "The Testimony of the Evangelists"). In the end, though, evidence is not the problem, as I've noted, it is our bias against God from and selfish, proud, God-hating heart.
There are literally thousands of books and DVDs available by scientists and theologians of the highest quality that know the living God. Have you ever carefully viewed or read any of them? Google can lead you to many of them. Try Westiminster Seminary's bookstore online and go to "apologetics" where sound reasons for believing in the Christian faith can be found. Jason Sarfati, a chess champion, and Phd. scientist wrote a book refuting evolution. There are many more such books. Have any of you, seriously desiring to know the truth, sought God and considered the many resources out there without a mocking, prejudiced spirit? I seriously doubt it.
I know about being personally biased against God, because I once held all the same views you did until I received a new nature - His divine nature - imparted to me in His kindness, as well as forgiveness, 21 years ago.
Your problem is the same as mine (was): 1) selfish nature focused on self, desires, and passions; and 2) pride - an unwillingness to acknowledge the Creator. NO AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE WILL CONVINCE YOU. I've argued unbelievers into a position where they had no arguments left and then, what did they do? They walked away. No repentance, no faith, no knowledge and experience of God. Repentance and faith are gifts of God. May He give them to you. In the meantime, we will debate, but we will also proclaim the living Christ and He will save his chosen ones by His power and grace, even those who argue against Him and resist Him with all their might, like I once did Thankfully, more and more are coming to know Him, and He's still in the saving business for a little while longer.
I hope that some of you will be honest and face your bias and really pursue the Lord and find salvation and true joy and life in Him, the author of joy and life. He says, "seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you," (Matthew 7) and "seek the Lord while He may be found." (Isaiah 55) Blessings.
What evidence? The Bible? That's just a book. What makes the Bible the one "true" religious text? Is it because there are apparently secular sources who witnessed Jesus' miracles? How about the secular sources who are witnesses to other religions and their miracles? How about all of the sources from the time period who claimed that Jesus was merely a man?
So, you're reactions and dishonesty, and unwillingness to consider the evidence that is mountainous shows that God's word is true about you.
Atheists believe that God doesn't exist, just like you believe he does. How is that being dishonest? We considered the evidence and came to our own conclusions. It's you guys who are afraid to open up to new evidence. Personally, I'm an Agnostic. I believe in the possibility that there is a God, but I don't really buy into the World's religions.
Your conscience (God's moral law within) is a great proof of God
Right, because what can't be explained by science can only be explained by the Christian God? We know more now than we knew back then. At the time that the Bible was written, everyone thought the world was flat. I assume that is why Hell was thought to be below us and Heaven above. They literally thought that Heaven was in the clouds... which obviously isn't true. Our knowledge will continue to grow... the Bible will stay the same. It's extremely ambiguous and people will interpret the verses the way they see fit.
First Cause, God Himself. But you will believe it happened all by itself - well that's not only unscientific, but it's irrational.
It's not so much the belief in God that I find irrational, it's the belief in the Christian, Jewish, or Islamic God. Look at Old Testament... why did God want so many people stoned to death for such irrational reasons? A woman touching a man's testicles during a fight... cut off her hand! A son that is rebellious... stone him to death! A brother who refuses to marry and impregnate his deceased brother's wife... spit on him and punish him! Oh... and he sure didn't like autistic people, despite the "fact" that he created them. But then Christianity came and basically said "ignore that crazy crap... that was the old God. He's different now!". So I guess God mellowed out, maybe he became a Buddhist or something lol... which by the way, Buddhism came before Christianity and Buddha was supposedly born from a virgin... so Christianity didn't introduce the virgin birth.
Anyways, sorry if I offended your son. There is an age limit for people to be on forums like this... 13 years old, I think. His grammar and punctuation is pretty good for a kid his age, so I assumed he was older.
You compared the Bible and all the things that happened in it with the Iliad. Completely different story; no eyewitnesses as there were in the Bible. The Bible is much different, as The Iliad had one author. The Bible had lots of authors, which are very much consistent in their writing about God.
The Bible is a reliable collection of historical documents written by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. It reports supernatural events and the writings are divine rather than human in nature with the names of people and places being cited.
The bible is accurate. Simply look at the history of Israel and see how the bible and the facts line up. Other countries also have documents that say events happened which were mentioned in the bible
The bible, like many great novels, was not meant to be taken apart . It should be read in chunks. In fact the bible says you should not take sections of the book and use then to your advantage because your cropping out the "unimportant" parts of the bible, when it states that should not be done. When you take sections out of the bible you should quote all of the passages that relate to that certain topic.
Bible is 100% true .It has the true stories which have occured in the past. In fact,AD and BC occured in the basis of bible.SO WE CAN SAY THAT BIBLE IS 100% TRUE THAN ANY HOLLY BOOKS.
Not quite. My statement isn't a statement of knowledge, but one of wisdom. Wisdom is to realize what you don't know, or more so, can't know. Quite the opposite of knowledge.
But that's based on their own perception. I can take some verses from the Bible, for example, compare every scientific factor I can think of to it and claim those verses as incorrect. In the end, it was just my own perception and because science evolves constantly, my claim that the Bible is scientifically incorrect can also be disproved.
The article that you have read "Scientific Errors In The Qur'an" is telling that
IF (take note it states if) the Qur'an is the infallible Word of God, then it stands to reason that it would not contain factual errors of science." So this means that Qur'an is not a BIBLE. The Bible that I meant, is the BIBLE that Christians used not that Book of Islam because it is not a BIBLE.... it is Qur'an.
Because some people claimed that Qur'an is a BIBLE but the truth is it is not. And Qur'an is the word of Allah. But the BIBLE is the WORD of GOD.
You may say why doesn't He create some other dynamics. Who's to say another dynamic wouldn't change the result.
He can't change Himself. And if He is pure Light, then no matter what God does Darkness is an impurity to Light, And darkness burns away. Light has to remove darkness.You exist, and are given a life to live according to how you want to live, to form bonds, and memories, and live life as you see fit.
That's a gift, not a curse. The question is do you want to be swallowed up in darkness in the end. As far as eternal torment Saintnow will have me executed a heretic, but I think it ends.
I think there is a resurection to judgement and All will be consumed and there will be tormenting destruction.
And people will mourn the choice, when they see Him, and then will slip into black empiness. I can't really tell you what will happen there. I'm pretty sure what we think we know and what it is are actually not the same thing.
I don't think you can get saved by fearing Hell.
I think you have to love something about the character of God to want to follow. But the character people have painted is far from accurate.
God is preparing the riches of Eternity the gift of Eternal Life to give to a gazillion of His children, who have loved and chosen light over darkness from every generation for 6000 years.
And don't bother with the evolution discussion, a day was not likely
a twenty four hour day. So whatever started it all was still Him, God is the Creator behind whatever, and however He did it. So it really doesn't matter. He is the First and the Last. Whatever it was, He was it!
Starting from Genesis through Revelations, God set up everything from all the main hosts, to all the appointed timelines for everything from beginning to end. Then He let our lives unfold with our free will intact.
For Him to have know your choice ahead of time, you would of had to exist!
And everyone existed, so God doesn't remove people from their life which existed just because He foreknew on their choices would be for darkness, or on account of the choices He knew ahead of you making them. That's absurd. Your life is still a gift. And honestly we don't know what Hell is, if its an eternal burn. Or Eternal death as in burned up and ceasing to exist throughout Eternity.
We just don't know all the answers.
It's so ridiculous, people have these expectations of validity and knowledge that are unreasonable. There is an awful lot of different events to dig for, and many have been confirmed found. But some Muslim countries don't even allow diggers to confirm Biblical facts because of the unrest in those countries.
The dilemmas there in mid east should be proof itself! It's like everyone is skeptical by choice, and that choice is unreasonable, if many indicators exist to confirm things, and many things found, and you still deny the Bible texts because all of it isn't proved, it's as unreasonable as saying we don't believe the Egyptians had a huge work force behind all the pyramids because we can't confirm everything that's hidden in the earth of Egypt. It's foolish and its ignorance of choice!
And He wouldn't and shouldn't decide not to create others because of others choices. Or not give what He prepared as a gift for a gazillion of His children, just because other people make different choices.
Through all the work to its completion, God is rewarding His Work with joy of a full house. He does this huge, elaborate work of over 6000 years of details, planning and orchestrating it all. To do this tranformational feat in us, transferring us from a human nature to a body like when Jesus rose from the dead. Every detail managed and appointed including the Cross and Resurrection. And to have a gazilion Children to to share in all His riches through Eternity.
MATT 14
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.The earth was already dark, void formless, maybe from when Satan fell. So darkness existed as a choice. And darkness overcomes light or light overcomes darkness, but they can't coexist together in the same place. So for now light exists in the darkness, and where light exists, darkness is pushed back.
John 5
16 For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”
The Bible is the true Bronze Age testaments and/or records of the human beings living while it was compiled. There are many true accounts and much to be learned from it.
The Bible IS NOT a perfect statement from God with every word infallible nor is it above the influence of the ancient cultures or events happening at the time it was written.
Aspiring to live your life according to the beautiful lessons of love and tolerance in the Bible is a wonderful thing. But insisting every living person must abide by whatever sentences you choose to pluck out of it to thump as mandates that everyone must do that precise thing or else face condemnation is lunacy.
4 I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords; 5 Persia, Ethiopia and Put with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer with all its troops; Beth-togarmah from the remote parts of the north with all its troops—many peoples with you.
7 “Be prepared, and prepare yourself, you and all your companies that are assembled about you, and be a guard for them. 8 After many days you will be summoned; in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but its people were brought out from the nations, and they are living securely, all of them. 9 You will go up, you will come like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land, you and all your troops, and many peoples with you.”
10 ‘Thus says the Lord God,
“It will come about on that day, that thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil plan,
11 and you will say, ‘I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will go against those
who are at rest, that live securely, all of them living without walls and having no bars or gates, 12 to capture spoil and to seize plunder, to turn your hand against the waste places which are now inhabited, and against the people who are gathered from the nations, who have acquired cattle and goods, who live at the center of the world.’
BUT, in the end. He will STILL save His people, and He will destroy again the enemies of His people.
O Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal; 2 and I will turn you around, drive you on, take you up from the remotest parts of the north and bring you against the mountains of Israel. 3 I will strike your bow from your left hand and dash down your arrows from your right hand. 4 You will fall on the mountains of Israel, you and all your troops and the peoples who are with you; I will give you as food to every kind of predatory bird and beast of the field. 5 You will fall on the open field; for it is I who have spoken,” declares the Lord God. 6 “And I will send fire upon Magog and those who inhabit the coastlands in safety; and they will know that I am the Lord.
If people have their eyes closed and they can't see, there is no use showing them anything, unless there is something for real in them that says if I see its true I will follow.
If that's not a true statement about you regarding truth, the you should expect to stay blind. And I should expect God to let you stay blind. He doesn't open the eyes to understand to those who choose darkness over Light. Bottom line!
As long as people reject truth, then their hearts will be just like the heart of the pharasees!
Truth and Prophesy stood Eye to Eye and Toe to Toe with them,
and even then, knowing all the texts that told about Him, they STILL STAYED BLIND !
Blind is a choice AT FIRST, but then its a bowl of wrath poured out, as we see in Revelations!
If you choose darkness over Light, He let's a flood of darkness and deception take you away. (Just like a flood, Jesus said His return will be JUST LIKE THE DAYS OF NOAH!
So then, the Lights go OUT! In a flood see Luke 17 where the vultures gather!
You know what crazy, Here is a very clear example of it, without even trying hard, Yet this is exactly how blind people are!
The Pharisees were people who memorized the law and the prophets, all Jews did, but especially the religious leaders!
And God told of the Messiah, and they were aware He was coming.
So its not like He surprised them. He didn't hide it then spring it on them, expecting them to be aware without knowing what exactly to look for.
INSTEAD, God wrote and wrote and wrote detail after detail after detail. Explaining everything they needed to know, in order to recognise Him.
But the 1 thing they failed to do was to guard their hearts, and prepare for The visitation of the Messiah they had been told about!
So God told them exactly where He would be born, in whose decendants line, God gave physical details to a T, and told them exactly what He would be doing, and His ultamately end on the cross, and of His Resurection. He told them of His trial, Judas' betrayal, every detail down to His tomb! He even said they would reject Him and kill Him, and scoff and mock.
Now one pharasee wasn't blinded, Nicodemus, and He followed Jesus. All the others, you would think that at some point over the 3.5 years He was in their very faces, under their noses, and out in the open with every detail, you would think after a few months, or maybe a year, they'd say hey, we had this memorized and Jesus looks like everything we knew to look for!
You'd think at least when they got to the trials they would have made SOME KIND OF A CONNECTION! HOW COULD THEY BE THAT BLIND???
Because God sent Jesus to a people whose hearts were darkened, and they couldn't see. And by doing so The Gospel went through all the World to every Nation, and As it is written Abraham through the Seed of Promise, has become a Father to Many Nations. Through promise!
So I think it interesting, many say show me! And I did show, not even intending to show in my answer. Yet most of you, will end up like those blind pharasees, And Gods judgement to you for having a heart that doesn't really want to know, you just might choose to stay blind also! And drink the cup of wrath He is pouring out right now, without even being aware or caring about it.
The Bible is a computer like written code. Digitalizing our physical existence, and programming full circle beginning to end. And to prove it, pi is right in the 1st verse. Gen 1: 1
I'm amazed at this. And e in John 1: 1 which is in line with exponential growth out to all nations in the era of the new testament.
An alien authored it, coincidences pile to high to dismiss.
If an alien left a document in your attic, how hard would you
look to find it?
After you found it, how hard would you try to decifer it?
Holy bible is the only pure book among the all religious books in the world... It's 100% true ...IF god is 100% true ..then the same will be for the word of god ... Even the science evolved because of bible... science proves bilble is true..From the smallest of organism to the largest star ....is proven in bible.. what else we need as proof
Holy bible is the only pure book among the all religious books in the world... It's 100% true ...IF god is 100% true ..then the same will be for the word of god ... Even the science evolved because of bible... science proves bilble is true..From the smallest of organism to the largest star ....is proven in bible.. what else we need as proof
Holy bible is the only pure book among the all religious books in the world... It's 100% true ...IF god is 100% true ..then the same will be for the word of god ... Even the science evolved because of bible... science proves bilble is true..From the smallest of organism to the largest star ....is proven in bible.. what else we need as proof
I find it just as valid of divinity as I do all other sacred texts of divinity. And at this point, I think it's more like Aesop's Fables. As in, I think people wrote it as a way to give answers to people at which they didn't really have, and to make their lives easier to cope with, and even to teach the morals of that time.
If there is no divinity, then why do we have a conscience? Why do people feel guilty after doing something bad? I think it's because there is a divinity, and that we are made in its image. We have a sense of right and wrong because we were designed to have one.
So your saying people wrote the Bible to make life easier to cope with? The Bible doesn't just contain facts. It contains TRUTH and HISTORY, things that actually happened. Can you give me one reason why the Bible is false? Just one reason?
Solomon is correct... Horus was recorded before the bible yet it states the same ideals of the bible.
Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
Both were baptized at age 30.
Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
Both have 12 disciples.
Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, "house of Anu").
HOLY FUCKING SHIT! Can you not have an educational debate without downvoting people's views!!!! I'm done with this pathetic thread and your pathetic tactics of debating.
I have to disagree. The problem here is that there are many accounts of Horus, and what you basically did was nitpick from every different story. In the 21st century, this is quite easy for us because we have multiple stories written over 5000 years. However the ancient Christians never had any of these stories; they might have known of a Horus, but they would not know that Horus did all these things because the Horus they knew of might not have done any of these things.
Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
There is no character named Anup the Baptizer in ancient Egyptian mythology. This is the concoction of a 19th-century English poet and amateur Egyptologist by the name of Gerald Massey (see sidebar 2 below). Massey is the author of several books on the subject of Egyptology; however, professional Egyptologists have largely ignored his work. In fact, his writing is held in such low regard in archaeological circles that it is difficult to find references to him in reputable modern publication
Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
There was no temptation on Horus part, there was a battle in the desert. Barely even a correlation.
Besides, they unified in the end, Jesus and Satan never liked each other and according to the Bible they still don't.
Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.Horus never healed the sick the way Jesus did. Jesus walked up and down and healed the sick, Horus on the other hand just waited until the Egyptians said some fancy spell and "dwelled" inside the sick. What is even funnier, is that none of this happened in Horus' life time. Everything happened in Jesus' lifetime. No correlation.
Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
His mother raised Osirus from the grave, (more like half raised). Horus did no such thing.
The name Osirus is a Greek transliteration of the Egyptian name Asar. As I mentioned earlier, Osirus is the father of Horus, and, according to the myth, he was killed by Seth and briefly brought back to life by Isis in order to conceive Horus.
The name Lazarus is actually derived from the Hebrew word Eleazar meaning “God has helped.” This name was common among the Jews of Jesus’ time. In fact, two figures in the New Testament bear this name (cf. John 11, Luke 16:19-31).
Both have 12 disciples.
Again, this claim finds its origin in the work of Gerald Massey (Ancient Egypt: The Light of the World, book 12), which points to a mural depicting “the twelve who reap the harvest.” But Horus does not appear in the mural.
There are many other discrepancies, but to go through them all would be exhausting.
So your saying people wrote the Bible to make life easier to cope with?
For their time period. And those who still need that coping mechanism still seem to cling to it. So to answer your question, yes, I think that was one reason why the Bible and other sacred texts or stories were created.
The Bible doesn't just contain facts. It contains TRUTH and HISTORY, things that actually happened.
In the same way that a person may not just lie but create fictional stories to pass off at truth. Oh hey guess what, redundancy! You just said that the Bible doesn't just contain facts.....it also contains facts! Well by golly that certainly convinces me!
Can you give me one reason why the Bible is false? Just one reason?
Just to be clear, I acknowledge that there are accurate statements in the Bible. So I am not claiming the entire Bible is false. However, to give you an example of a statement in the Bible which is inaccurate: Jonah was swallowed by a whale (Matthew: 12:40 KJV). But Jonah 1:17 (KJV) says that Jonah was swallowed by a fish. Whales are not fish, they're marine mammals. So one or both of these statements in the Bible are wrong/false.
"I am not claiming the entire Bible is false," wow. Guess what, if you think some of the Bible is true and some of it is false, then how do you know the true from false?! If one thing is false, the whole thing could be false!
"I am not claiming the entire Bible is false," wow. Guess what, if you think some of the Bible is true and some of it is false, then how do you know the true from false?!
If I see a tie-dye ball, I'm not going to claim the entire ball is green, I'm going to say that some of the ball is green, some of it is blue, some of it is whatever the hell other colors are on the ball. Just because I don't find it one solid color does not mean my distinction between colors must be in question. If I am stating that some of the Bible is true and some of it is false; obviously I am drawing a distinction between them and using effort to attempt to find that line between truth and fiction. And I use evidence and demonstrable fact for my distinction.
If one thing is false, the whole thing could be false!
COULD be, yes, doesn't mean that it is. Also, if one part of the ball is blue, the whole ball could be blue, but it also could have other colors on the ball.
Oh and I just love you how don't acknowledge the rest of my post, especially when I gave you an example of a false statement in the Bible, which you had requested for.
It has everything to do with instructions on how to stand and remain before a God who says many times, you can't see Him and live.
So He always came in a cloud, or just sent part of Himself.
There are no arbitrary rules.
One is seed of darkness the other is seed of light. These seeds produce their own fruits. Bad fruit can't remain.
Satan is the god of this world, God already judged him, any fruit from his seed is already judged because it's the seed of darkness bearing judged fruit of deeds only found in darkness.
Sin is just sin, I don't think God "decides" what sin is. It is what it is, and it just is Darkness, and not Light.
God isn't having a temper tantrum, or being tyrinical. He is instructing us, who choose Eternal Life with Him on how to stand and remain, when we come face to face, before Him, knowing, what happens to darkness in His presence!
What God defines as sin is anything that is not born of light.
Because DARKNESS SHRINKS BACK, IT CAN'T REMAIN IN LIGHT!
ETERNAL LIFE - WHERE DOES TIME STAND ETERNALLY STILL?
The ancient prophets understood the properties of Light, it took us about 6000 years for science to understand the properties of Light. So just maybe we should give this all some thought!
Yes Joel I can no you's all say you totally believe in the bible as the word of God but backtrack quick enough when asked according to Mark 16:17-18, true believers can drink poison and handle snakes with no ill effects: And these signs will accompany those who believe: ... So bet you won't drink poison even though your protected by your God faith indeed ..... Wake up Joel it's a fairytale
If you drink poison and die you don't get to see your God because only a true believer can drink and survive ... Oh and here's what your God said so it's not me making it up ,you are disobeying your God by saying something he did not say1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.....
It's not a matter of drinking and surviving in this life. Christians could drink poison and go to heaven where they would stay. This life isn't as important as heaven.
You don't comprehend the bible quote about poison it says if you believe and drink it ,it will not effect you because you believe , if you die from the poison you don't believe , so you know where that leads according to your book !
Tell that to a man I know who lost a young wife to sudden death syndrome , so tell me your after saying if you fall in trouble he will save you she was a devout believer so your statement is garbage you see friend talk is cheap . And regards your first statement he tells you you can do miracles if you believe but don't test him what a load of bull .
.Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan Both were baptized at age 30.
Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
Both have 12 disciples.
Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, "house of Anu").
Theyre exactly the same almost 100%! And no shit horus isnt mentioned in the bible! You dont plagiarize someone elses story and then write them in as the author.
You have to be extraordinarily gullible to accept this "Horus-Jesus" comparison, and very stupid to believe it without questioning the source. It is easily debunked.
The Horus-Jesus Myth: Be Critical
Just like the stolen kidney story, the Horus-Jesus connection myth has much of what makes an urban legend appealing: a moral tale that shows how one's gullibility can result in one being taken in with serious consequences, the authoritative yet undefined source, a set of facts that on the surface are seemingly plausible, and the ability to shock others with a sensational revelation. Yet, just like the stolen kidney story, all you need to do is to think a bit and the paper-thin claims of Jesus's stolen resurrection will quickly melt away. Here are five points to consider:
1) Look for Loaded Language
Notice in the Zeitgeist story, all the terms used are ones taken from Christianity. Horus is called a "messiah" and was "baptized." He had "disciples" and a "ministry." All of these terms bias the listener because they are Jewish or Christian concepts. The Egyptians would never use these words to refer to their religious rites. The word messiah had a very specific meaning to the Jews, including being a descendant of David. It wasn't any political figure. Christianity teaches that believers are baptized only once, not simply a pre-religious washing ceremony. By mislabeling other deities with Christian terms, the listener is deluded into believing the similarities are closer than they really are.
2) Ask "Can I read the source of these myths?"
The single easiest way to debunk these supposed parallel accounts of Jesus and Horus are to simply ask for the source text of the myths themselves. Just as the stolen kidney tale can't be verified since it comes from "a friend of a friend," so you'll find that the ancient tales that supposedly parallels the life of Jesus are an extended form of hearsay. In fact, all these claims are usually committing the same sin many atheists claim the Gospels commit: they are more like a game of telephone than real texts.
Interestingly, if anyone actually bothers to look up the source texts, a very different picture arises. For Horus, there's no mention at all of twelve disciples, three king visitations, and death by crucifixion and the three day entombment. In fact, Horus was stung by a scorpion and a magic incantation by the god of wisdom, Thoth, purges the venom from his body. This all happens while Horus was a young child, well before his adulthood and battle for the throne. It's nothing like Jesus's resurrection at all.3
3) Ask "What do you mean by "resurrection?"
There's a significant difference between Jesus's resurrection and what you read in the ancient myths. Osirus, according to a late tradition recorded in the first century AD by the Roman Plutarch, was cut into fourteen pieces by his nemesis Typhon and they were scattered all along the Nile. Osirus's wife Isis was able to gather thirteen of those to reassemble her husband. The tale tells us that unfortunately Osirus's sexual organ was eaten by fish and so Isis assembled another out of gold in order for Osirus to impregnate her with Horus. Osirus, since he will never be a complete being again, now resides as the god of the underworld.4
4) Ask "What do you mean by virgin birth?"
Certainly, given the events above, calling Horus's conception a virgin birth strains the idea to its breaking point. Other fables, such as Zeus impregnating Semele with Dionysus. He had physical relations with her even though she couldn't see him. Zeus took Dionysus ads a fetus and sewed him into his thigh and from there Dionysus was born. To say the virgin birth stories should be considered comparable is itself laughable.
its not that they are similar, its that they are identical. plus if your to say Jesus came before the Egyptians, then im sorry but no, you would be wrong. and you are now.
If Horus and Jesus are similar, then what's the point in disbelieving Jesus, and believing Horus, when you could disbelief Horus, and believe Jesus. Why? Because Horus has a little bit different story and you don't like fact that there's a Hell.
Why do you disbelief Jesus, and believe Horus, when you could disbelief Horus, and believe Jesus? I think it's because Horus's story is different, and that in the story of Jesus and Bible there is a Hell, and you don't like that, so you turn to Horus. Plus, I researched. Horus was a god. So, I know Horus wasn't real. How? Because the only god, is the God of the Trinity.
OK um, maybe i missed something. so Jesus in not god, but im supposed to pray to him for a good life?
The trinity thing is what? three parts to one god? i thought god was not physical. so how is he be a man and still god? oh yeah cuz he willing brakes rules, right...?
Horus's story was before his that was my point to bring him up. unless you think Jesus can time travel. witch would be a neat plot twist. And no, im content if there is a hell (witch i don't think is real either).
do i think ill go. i don't know. im not worried about dying and going to heaven; when there is so much more on this world that has to be done. the heaven and hell thing is stupid to every worry about ever! when now, you should worry about education, rent, jobs, people wanting your stuff because they know no better and most of all, a family that looks up to you...
i think the bible was a good moral stepping stone, to expand our understanding and thinking at the time it was given. however as time goes on we see we dont need it more and more. further more, we see it to be wrong over and over again. How is it ok, to make your daughter marry her rapists? yet Jesus was right in everything he did?
heaven and hell? come on, i dont want to be in a place filled with rapists. those people are scum of the earth. Yet they are glorified and get to go to heaven?
listen if there is a hell and i end up going it would not be because i did not believe. it would be because i did not do enough to help another person.
the bible is a stepping stone. not an absolute.
Through out history! the bible kills millions, no billions because people are still doing it today from it. you said you did history on this. so why do you believe? whats in it for you? a spot next to a guy that has probably raped some poor girl? A justified mass murder? or maybe that guy who brain washed billions to get more money? heaven sounds like hell. and to deny it would be child like and beyond foolish.
"Why do you disbelief Jesus, and believe Horus, when you could disbelief Horus, and believe Jesus?" i dont believe i was just using them as examples.
Egyptian mythology has hell to.
if it makes it any more of an interesting discussion explain how the parts that are not from Egypt but from Jewish history; only altered to fit the need.
Heh, i don't think there is a place named Bethanu, but there is a place called Bethany, meaning house of misery/poverty.
Claim: Horus was baptized in a river at the age of 30, and his baptizer was later beheaded.
Truth: Horus was never baptized. While the conspiracy theorists will often point to “Anup the Baptizer” and claim he was later beheaded, there is no such person in Horus’ story.
Claim: Horus had 12 disciples
Truth: Horus had only four disciples (called ‘Heru-Shemsu’), but at some point in his story there is reference to sixteen followers, and a group of unnumbered followers who join Horus in battle (called ‘mesnui’). But there’s no reference to twelve followers.
Claim: Horus performed miracles, exorcized demons, raised someone from the dead, walked on water
Truth: Of course Horus performed miracles, after all he was supposed to be a god!! But there was no mention of exorcizing demons, raising people from the dead or walking on water.
Claim: Horus delivered a “Sermon on the Mount”, and his followers recounted his sayings. He was transfigured on the Mount
Truth: Horus never delivered a “Sermon on the Mount”, nor was he transfigured.
Claim: Horus was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and was resurrected
Truth: Horus is not reported to have died at all in the vast majority of story versions. There is also no crucifixion story. Instead, Horus is usually described as eventually merging with Ra (the Sun god) after which he ‘dies’ and is ‘reborn’ every single day as the sun rises. (This is a bit of a stretch at a death and resurrection parallel). Now there is an unofficial story that describes Horus as dying and being cast in pieces into the water, and later fished out by a crocodile at Isis’ request.
You have to be extraordinarily gullible to accept this "Horus-Jesus" comparison, and very stupid to believe it without questioning the source. It is easily debunked.
The Horus-Jesus Myth: Be Critical
Just like the stolen kidney story, the Horus-Jesus connection myth has much of what makes an urban legend appealing: a moral tale that shows how one's gullibility can result in one being taken in with serious consequences, the authoritative yet undefined source, a set of facts that on the surface are seemingly plausible, and the ability to shock others with a sensational revelation. Yet, just like the stolen kidney story, all you need to do is to think a bit and the paper-thin claims of Jesus's stolen resurrection will quickly melt away. Here are five points to consider:
1) Look for Loaded Language
Notice in the Zeitgeist story, all the terms used are ones taken from Christianity. Horus is called a "messiah" and was "baptized." He had "disciples" and a "ministry." All of these terms bias the listener because they are Jewish or Christian concepts. The Egyptians would never use these words to refer to their religious rites. The word messiah had a very specific meaning to the Jews, including being a descendant of David. It wasn't any political figure. Christianity teaches that believers are baptized only once, not simply a pre-religious washing ceremony. By mislabeling other deities with Christian terms, the listener is deluded into believing the similarities are closer than they really are.
2) Ask "Can I read the source of these myths?"
The single easiest way to debunk these supposed parallel accounts of Jesus and Horus are to simply ask for the source text of the myths themselves. Just as the stolen kidney tale can't be verified since it comes from "a friend of a friend," so you'll find that the ancient tales that supposedly parallels the life of Jesus are an extended form of hearsay. In fact, all these claims are usually committing the same sin many atheists claim the Gospels commit: they are more like a game of telephone than real texts.
Interestingly, if anyone actually bothers to look up the source texts, a very different picture arises. For Horus, there's no mention at all of twelve disciples, three king visitations, and death by crucifixion and the three day entombment. In fact, Horus was stung by a scorpion and a magic incantation by the god of wisdom, Thoth, purges the venom from his body. This all happens while Horus was a young child, well before his adulthood and battle for the throne. It's nothing like Jesus's resurrection at all.3
3) Ask "What do you mean by "resurrection?"
There's a significant difference between Jesus's resurrection and what you read in the ancient myths. Osirus, according to a late tradition recorded in the first century AD by the Roman Plutarch, was cut into fourteen pieces by his nemesis Typhon and they were scattered all along the Nile. Osirus's wife Isis was able to gather thirteen of those to reassemble her husband. The tale tells us that unfortunately Osirus's sexual organ was eaten by fish and so Isis assembled another out of gold in order for Osirus to impregnate her with Horus. Osirus, since he will never be a complete being again, now resides as the god of the underworld.4
4) Ask "What do you mean by virgin birth?"
Certainly, given the events above, calling Horus's conception a virgin birth strains the idea to its breaking point. Other fables, such as Zeus impregnating Semele with Dionysus. He had physical relations with her even though she couldn't see him. Zeus took Dionysus ads a fetus and sewed him into his thigh and from there Dionysus was born. To say the virgin birth stories should be considered comparable is itself laughable.
Yes, actually it does mean it's true. EVERYTHING in the Bible is true. The Bible does NOT say his body was stolen. GuitarGuy, do you think you are a good person? Just a plain question, no tricks. Just answer honestly, do you think you are a good person?
Why does that mean it is true? Were you there? Do you believe everything that you hear and read? How do you know that the people who wrote the Bible were trustworthy? If everything in the Bible is true, then you can admit that God was an asshole throughout a lot of the Old Testament, right?
To answer your questions, just read the other reply in the other argument. :)
Well, everyone who is an unbeliever and does not repent, will, on judgement day, be sent to Hell for eternity. Now, I'm not using scare tactics when I say this but guess what? Have you ever lied? Yes. Have you ever stolen anything? Yes. Have you ever committed adultery by lusting at a women? Yes. Have you ever taken the Lord's name in vain? Yes.
Sir, that means your a lying, thief, adulterer at heart, and a blasphemer. If you continue in sin, and don't repent, you would end up in hell. When are you going to die? You have no idea. Again, no scare tactics involved. Just straight up reality/truth. If you died right now, and ended up in hell, I wouldn't want that. So please, GuitarGuy, put your trust in the one true God and live for Him.
Well, everyone who is an unbeliever and does not repent, will, on judgement day, be sent to Hell for eternity.
That's pretty fucked up. Is that some sort of way for God to control Heaven's population? lol If someone is a good person, they obviously don't deserve an eternity of suffering.
Have you ever lied?
Nope... ;)
Have you ever stolen anything?
Okay, fine... I was the one who stole the cookie from the cookie jar.
Have you ever committed adultery by lusting at a women?
Adultery? I ain't no cheater yo!
Have you ever taken the Lord's name in vain?
Oh... my... lawd.
Sir, that means your a lying, thief, adulterer at heart, and a blasphemer.
What!? Hey! Fuck you too.
If you continue in sin, and don't repent, you would end up in hell.
"If someone is a good person," WHICH NO ONE IS. Think deep down, you and I know how selfish and ugly we can be. We deserve to be in Hell right now. The chances of you NOT lying ever so far in your life are very slim. Maybe you haven't lied, but guess what? You've broken one of the 10 commandments which makes you liable for the rest! Our hearts have the ability to commit the other 'said' sin. (Pls no language. gah.) And as for lusting at a women? I know you've looked at a women with lust. And when I said that your a lying, thief, adulterer at heart, and a blasphemer, I'm not just pointing at you. I'm also a wicked sinner. But praise the Lord, because he died for my sins, that I've committed and still commit, so I wouldn't have to! He desires for us to be in Heaven with Him. GuitarGuy, how often do you think about spiritual things?? Just wondering.
Ummm... no we don't. Well, at least I don't think I do...I'm not so sure about you though lol.
The chances of you NOT lying ever so far in your life are very slim. Maybe you haven't lied, but guess what?
You're being gullible again. I put the winky face in there for a reason.
And as for lusting at a women? I know you've looked at a women with lust.
Well, duh! That doesn't mean I slept with a married woman.
GuitarGuy, how often do you think about spiritual things?? Just wondering.
I was a Christian growing up. By the time I was in high school, I started asking questions. So I researched it a little bit... and then once I was in college I enrolled in a course where I got an opportunity to study the world's religions in a lot of detail. I was really interested in the subject and passed at the top of my class. I hate to sound like I'm bragging, but I do think that I have a little more authority than most of the users on this site when it comes to religion, due to my knowledge on the subject that I acquired from sources outside of the internet. The sad truth is that you are somewhat brainwashed. Religions have particular patterns. They all copy certain details off of each other. As far as the world's more dominant religions, Hinduism came first and then Judaism, even Buddhism came before Christianity. Buddhism actually was one of the first religions to introduce the virgin birth.... but before all of those religions, came things like Egyptian Polytheism, which Christianity surprisingly mimics a lot of details from. Jesus is actually very similar to the Egyptian god Horus (I think that's his name).
Anyways, I know you're probably afraid to ask questions about your religion... but you'd probably be better off if you did... and I'd be willing to share with you any knowledge I have on the subject, if you are willing to ask the questions.
I was raised a Christian. By the way, "Christian" is just a term people made to label their beliefs. Jesus wasn't a Christian. You don't have to say that you are one.
You make the decision whether or not you want to believe, it's not like you start believing and then you can never stop.
Haha nobody would wanna waste their time reading that, if you have time to waste, sure, you're welcome to.
1 Corinthians 15:6
"After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep."
This was written by Paul, who, before, dug information for Christians and sent thousands of them to their deaths blahblah who later followed Christ. (A guy who is in high class, educated by the best teachers...anyways the ideal man every student would want to be when they grow up).
Psychologists say it's impossible to have hundreds of people hallucinate at the same time.
People died for these messages and still do in currently over the world. You might want to question why they stupidly risk their lives over an old book that might not be true. (Maybe because they experienced something other people did not?)
"After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep."
So the evidence that supports the claim that 500 people saw Jesus walking around after his death is the Bible? That doesn't prove anything. How come we don't hear those claims from secular sources?
Psychologists say it's impossible to have hundreds of people hallucinate at the same time.
Which means that either the Bible is true or the Bible is false... and that is what this debate is about.
People died for these messages and still do in currently over the world. You might want to question why they stupidly risk their lives over an old book that might not be true.
Okay... and how about I ask the Muslims why they die for the message within the Qur'an, the Buddhists why they die for the message within the Tripitaka , the Hindus why they die for the message within the Verdas? You get the point. Some people are willing to die for their beliefs, but that doesn't make them true.
So the evidence that supports the claim that 500 people saw Jesus walking around after his death is the Bible? That doesn't prove anything. How come we don't hear those claims from secular sources?
The Bible is a valid source of evidence, and claims like this are corroborated by other ancient sources. What makes the Bible any different than secular books written around the same time?
Okay... and how about I ask the Muslims why they die for the message within the Qur'an, the Buddhists why they die for the message within the Tripitaka , the Hindus why they die for the message within the Verdas? You get the point. Some people are willing to die for their beliefs, but that doesn't make them true.
That's a false analogy. The Bible is unique in that it is supported by evidence and has been transmitted down for thousands of years without major changes. Other religious texts don't have that same level of support.
Which rhymes with Medusa! The serpent sometimes represents Satan. Medusa's head is covered in serpents.
Satan created Medusa to guard the secret that he actually possessed Jesus and used his body to spread "God's Word" in an attempt to make the actual God look bad(which was successful).
We must find Medusa's lair and kill her, then we can debunk this myth!
You can ban me if you want, but I'll just leave all of my responses through my own debates. It'll probably be pretty embarrassing for you... but enjoyable for me. You can look at some of my past debates if you don't believe me.
I really hope you aren't that gullible... of course that isn't what I believe! It was obviously the Easter Bunny who stole Jesus' body.
Again you are telling lies about your God he does change his mind look at the examples from his book where he constantly changes his mind , so he is lying as well as you ? It's his book tell me where I'm misquoting ? ... You can't.
You keep saying he does not change his mind so your saying your God is a liar ? Because look above at the several examples of where he changes his mind , but you say he does not and yet it's in his book his words so is he lying ?
Dermot, it's not a story. Or not just some story at that. It's a TRUE one. The inspired word of God. You know how I know it's true? I challenge you this: Go to any library, as much library's as you want, and I want you to get me a collection of 66 Books. 66 Books written by several authors. 66 Books written in three different continents. 66 Books that are accurate to history. 66 Books that all have the same theme and point to the one true God. If you can find a collection like that, I would believe that the Bible is false.
Sir, the Bible is real, and I believe EVERYONE believe's He's real. They just don't like that their's a God, so they block him and the Bible and refuse to Believe in Him and the Bible. How do I know that the Bible is true, and that some guys didn't just get together and write some random junk? Well, the Bible was written by SEVERAL authors on different continents. The authors didn't even know each other. They didn't have mail, or anything to come up with a fat lie. The Holy Spirit inspired each author to write this historical events down on paper.
The bible is wrong on nearly everything history ,geography ,science ,also it's full of genocide ,racism , hate , incest a terrible book by all accounts
I challenge you this: Go to any library, as much library's as you want, and I want you to get me a collection of 66 Books. 66 Books written by several authors. 66 Books written in three different continents. 66 Books that are accurate to history. 66 Books that all have the same theme and point to the one true God. If you can find a collection like that, I would believe that the Bible is false.
*as many libraries
i can EASILY get you SEVERAL collections of 66 books from almost every branch of science that match your exact qualifications EXCEPT the last one. Why does it have to point to a god? Why does there have to be one at all? and why do these qualifications you made make the bible true? Do authors and places books are written dictate the truth of the content? no. The supporting evidence for the content does. Of which the bible has ZERO.
So go ahead and rub off to the fact that your book is super duper famous and fancy. so its catcher in the rye and the Iliad and nobody suggests those are true.
the Bible is real
i know i have one.
and I believe EVERYONE believe's He's real. They just don't like that their's a God, so they block him and the Bible and refuse to Believe in Him and the Bible
and herein lies the problem. You believe that you know what im thinking. Wtf? youre really gonna tell me what i think? i suggest you get this stupid idea out of your head because i DONT believe in your god at all. i dont hate him or the bible or whatever because theyre FAIRYTALES to me. theyre none of my concern at all except when morons like you and your other evangelist buddies try to tell me what i believe and try to impose your crap on me and on younger kids in schools and such.
If you want anyone to respect you and take you seriously then dont tell them this crap. You dont know shit about what anyone else believes. BUT you can find out. know how? ASK THEM. people will tell you what THEY believe because THEY are experts on the subject. not some old book.
How do I know that the Bible is true, and that some guys didn't just get together and write some random junk?
You dont KNOW anything. you THINK things. And nobody suggesting that some guys just wrote random junk. we do in fact have ideas on why it was written. it did in fact serve an impotant purpose, it just isnt true.
Well, the Bible was written by SEVERAL authors on different continents. The authors didn't even know each other. They didn't have mail, or anything to come up with a fat lie
So a man writing a book on WW2 in the US and another man writting another book on WW2 from Russia and another from Germany and another from France who dont know eachother MUST have been imbuned with the holy spirit to get this information right? Newsflash buddy: monotheistic religion is huge and has been for thousands of years in seperate nations. Stories will be similar and word will spread fast. Christianity in rome took over the empire in a few centuries easy. But i would actually like to know what bible books were written in other continents because ive never heard that before. Christianity is totally local to Isreal and the surrounding area up to Rome later on. Where else did it arise/when and where are you getting your info?
The Holy Spirit inspired each author to write this historical events down on paper
Giant assumption you have nothing to base on. How about: author wrote histotical events down on paper with embelishment from his own theology? Thats a far likelier reason
"EXCEPT the last one." Which means you CAN'T get a collection like I described. ;D Why does it have to point to a god? Because almost all religions have a God, and I'm proving my God and the Bible to be real.
I said "the Bible is real," and you replied with, "I know i have one," so you just admitted the Bible is real.
Whoever is not for God, hates Him.
If it served an important purpose, then how was it not true?!
Where am I getting the info that the Bible was written in different places other than around Israel/Rome?? The Bible itself!! AND Archaeologists!
"EXCEPT the last one." Which means you CAN'T get a collection like I described. ;D Why does it have to point to a god? Because almost all religions have a God, and I'm proving my God and the Bible to be real
Thats wonderfull. im not. Im not trying to disprove your religion in favor of another one, im disproving yours and thats it. And i gave the example of finding the collection of scientific books to show that the bible isnt special. There are other book collections with many authors and contributors from many places, yada yada yada. whats your point? That the bible is devine because of this? not even close.
I said "the Bible is real," and you replied with, "I know i have one," so you just admitted the Bible is real.
Yeah. the bible physically exists. i own a copy of it. As for the concepts within the bible, thats another story. Those are not "real".
Whoever is not for God, hates Him.
So you believe. i dont hate god. i dont think hes real. And hindus in India dont even know about your god so how can they hate him either? What if i told you that whoever is not for unicorns hates them? You must not believe in unicorns, but does that mean you hate them? no probably not.
If it served an important purpose, then how was it not true?!
You must know as well as i that many of the stories in the bible are alegorical and metaphorical to deliver a message, code of conduct, laws, and rules. That was its purpose, to spread these rules that people would follow because of the religion behind it. Its much easier to get people to obey religious rules when they think theres a god out there to appease who will punish them then to just say "dont kill people". At least it was back then
Where am I getting the info that the Bible was written in different places other than around Israel/Rome?? The Bible itself!! AND Archaeologists!
Cite your information! Ive been around and been arguing for a long time pal and NEVER have i heard anyone say that the bible was written in other continents or even outside the middle east. not in the bible nor from any archaeologist. You cant just say "archaeologist X says blah blah blah" you have to actually cite where he says this so i can then verify that its true. And if its in the bible quote the passages that were written anywhere other than the middle east.
The parts that are fact are the ones that we can verify to be facts. Other things must be taken with a grain of salt as it is unverified. And finally the things that are false are those we can disprove with science: snakes dont talk, fish and bread dont spawn into existence, water doesnt change its molecular composition into wine, animals/humans didnt spawn onto the earth they evolved, two people cant give birth to a whole species, the earth never flooded, ect.
When I say the lights going out, I am talking about Deceptions and Compromise in churches, and people of the world will be so full of their Sin and Deceptions that they will be enslaved to its darkness.
The lights are going out shaking churches off their foundations, and revealing the extremes in deception and hypocrisy.
Earthquakes, Storms, Harlotry
These are all part of end time prophesies.
The false prophets the world in the church.
And you can see this end time promise from Jesus.
Jesus saw like we do, what was in front of Him. So how or why is He looking so far ahead and including Nations and wars and physical elements that He didn't personally experience in His lifetime?
And John in Revelations, Why did he see mystery Babylon sitting on many waters, the false prophets, the beast and bowls of wrath, and breaking seals, while these outlandish visions that we see 2000 years later. The church was going strong they suffered persecution, the faithful were being faithful.
You had some false teachers infiltrating, but Jesus discusses it like a growth that grows huge, and false teachers weren't His experience, so it's actually odd and unlikely that He would spend so much time instructing them for the time periods after He is gone.
And John, the same He actually experienced some of what Jesus warned about.
So you'd think He would come from a see I told you so prespective, here it is right in front of us. Confirms everything, see I told you so. Just like Jesus said!
But no, John takes what was going on and says guys this isn't it.
No no no, we are going to look at this tomorrow outlandish picture, where this stuff grows to a size we can't even comprehend from our present view.
Don't you think if John wanted to be convincing, he would have taken their current view and embellished it with spiritual sounding jibberish, and not this unbelievable huge vision that would cast doubt as opposed to a more realistic hyper spiritual approach?
The lights are going out shaking churches off their foundations, and revealing the extremes in deception and hypocrisy.
Earthquakes, Storms, Harlotry
I saw a story just the other day of how a flood in some southeastern country destroyed whole towns and in one town the only thing left standing was the church. Doesnt that contradict the above?
These are all part of end time prophesies.
The false prophets the world in the church.
And you can see this end time promise from Jesus.
Jesus saw like we do, what was in front of Him. So how or why is He looking so far ahead and including Nations and wars and physical elements that He didn't personally experience in His lifetime?
And John in Revelations, Why did he see mystery Babylon sitting on many waters, the false prophets, the beast and bowls of wrath, and breaking seals, while these outlandish visions that we see 2000 years later. The church was going strong they suffered persecution, the faithful were being faithful.
You had some false teachers infiltrating, but Jesus discusses it like a growth that grows huge, and false teachers weren't His experience, so it's actually odd and unlikely that He would spend so much time instructing them for the time periods after He is gone.
And John, the same He actually experienced some of what Jesus warned about.
So you'd think He would come from a see I told you so prespective, here it is right in front of us. Confirms everything, see I told you so. Just like Jesus said!
But no, John takes what was going on and says guys this isn't it.
No no no, we are going to look at this tomorrow outlandish picture, where this stuff grows to a size we can't even comprehend from our present view.
Don't you think if John wanted to be convincing, he would have taken their current view and embellished it with spiritual sounding jibberish, and not this unbelievable huge vision that would cast doubt as opposed to a more realistic hyper spiritual approach?
Well first off John didnt experience these things, John (or whoever wrote john) claims to have experienced things. Can we prove he saw what he saw? Nope. Can we prove he ever met jesus? Nope.
So in reality all of what he said is spiritual sounding jibberish. And im not even sure what things youre attributing to john. But basically heres the deal, if the end times prophecy is super vague like "churches will be destroyed" that isnt very impressive for it to come true. churches are bound to be destroyed in natural disasters in nearly every year of human existence following the bible.
Maybe it was built with better materials in a physical sense, maybe in a spiritual sense.
When I talk about being shaken off foundations
And floods sweeping them away.
I'm speaking of a fall from Truth, where God gives them a cup of His wrath to drink and they can't stand, they are full of compromise and their drinking the blood of those they led astray.
24 “Everyone who hears these words of mine and does them is
like a wise man who built his house on rock.
25 The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, but it did not collapse because it had been founded on rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
27 The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, and it collapsed; it was utterly destroyed!”
When Jesus appears, 1st of all they can't even see the "hour"
They can't see anything they need to prepare, they are drinking wrath and think it's wine. They stumble at noon day.
We are in a time that if you can't see, it will matter more than ever.
Because He is going to show up, and if you can't see you can't prepare and won't be prepared.
Israel's persistance as a country was fullfilled intentionally. After the original country collapsed, after WW2 we needed a place for all the jews who were exiled from germany and who spread across europe fleeing the nazis. People at the meetings following WW2 cited verses like theses and made arguments for why israel should be established and then it was. I see no godly intervention in any way here. I see alot of human intervention.
What do you think God's going to pick them up and fly them there on angels wings? Duh! Lol!
So 1000's of years ago, this 1 Nation called to be like a custodian of God's Word, brought forth through Adam Seth Enoch Noah Abraham to Joseph to Moses to David to Jesus call Israel, or the Jews, We're told they'd be scattered for not recognizing the Messiah, and their Temple will be torn down, which also happened in 70 AD. Which Jesus and other prophets said was going to be a judgement.
And they would be scattered, then brought back.
Which happened.
Do you think God was going to tell them by placing huge signs and arrows in the sky?
1st of all He scattered an entire nation of people and brought back an entire nation of people, not just a family or two!
Then where He brought them back to flourished again, while their neighbors all around them live on lands that don't thrive.
And they are surrounded now by extreme hate, yet there they are.
A dot holding their ground the most ruthless enemies all around them.
Blind is blind, deaf is deaf. Right now you have a choice, and you can come to God, not grudgingly, He will replace everything you lay down and fill you with His joy and His Spirit, and it will be sweet to your soul if you follow Him.
What do you think God's going to pick them up and fly them there on angels wings? Duh! Lol!
It would be a hell of a lot more impressive than us doing all the work ourselves. And why not? He could literally make the whole nation of israel sprout wings and fly if he wanted.
So 1000's of years ago, this 1 Nation called to be like a custodian of God's Word, brought forth through Adam Seth Enoch Noah Abraham to Joseph to Moses to David to Jesus call Israel, or the Jews, We're told they'd be scattered for not recognizing the Messiah, and their Temple will be torn down, which also happened in 70 AD. Which Jesus and other prophets said was going to be a judgement.
And they would be scattered, then brought back.
Which happened.
Do you think God was going to tell them by placing huge signs and arrows in the sky?
1st of all He scattered an entire nation of people and brought back an entire nation of people, not just a family or two!
Then where He brought them back to flourished again, while their neighbors all around them live on lands that don't thrive.
And they are surrounded now by extreme hate, yet there they are.
A dot holding their ground the most ruthless enemies all around them.
Blind is blind, deaf is deaf. Right now you have a choice, and you can come to God, not grudgingly, He will replace everything you lay down and fill you with His joy and His Spirit, and it will be sweet to your soul if you follow Him.
Lets use some logic here:
Either
A) God prophesized that israel would be scattered then returned to one place and it happened therefore god exists.
or B) Some people prophesized on behalf of god that israel would be scattered and returned to one place and it happened therefore lucky guess on their part.
Which is more likely to be true? Which requires less assumptions? That a god actually exists and did all that or that it was a lucky guess?'
God is not interested in impressing you. I know we feel important, and I know we think we are worthy of God's pleading and begging if He wants us bad enough.
Last I checked Satan fell like lightening into the darkness pride.
I guess it's sad that God does what He does just as He said He would, and it's not sensational enough.
Such arrogance! Yet everyone acts so shocked that God will judge them?
Then he shouldnt be so butthurt when i look around and see no sign of his existence.
I know we feel important, and I know we think we are worthy of God's pleading and begging if He wants us bad enough
i mean were supposedly his chosen children that he loves so much. He was more than willing to do great miracles for his followers in the bible but i ask for one simple proof and i dont get anything. i just have to read a very flawed book and just believe for no reason.
Last I checked Satan fell like lightening into the darkness pride.
I guess it's sad that God does what He does just as He said He would, and it's not sensational enough.
Such arrogance! Yet everyone acts so shocked that God will judge them?
I mean its not really arrogance. Im not saying that im so important that god needs to cater to me. But i will say that IF god expects me to believe in him then its up to him to prove it to me in some way. Either by deliberately acting in some conclusive way in my life (which he seems to do for all christians and even you as you cited in that long story you posted). Or by providing me with proof i can find myself that is conclusive.
Its like if i were a ghost. i cant just float around my loved ones going "booooo!" and expect them to know its me. I would have to actually give them some evidence so they can see that its me. Write my name on a mirror, knock over a book, make fans move, some crazy stuff that people can see is CLEARLY the work of a ghost. I wouldnt just huff and puff and say "well my family is so arrogant they want me to PROVE im a ghost. i dont have to prove im a ghost, they just have to believe i am". How silly is that? They have no way of knowing if im a ghost unless i do something about it. Same with god. Hes invisible completely to all of my senses. How the hell do i go about proving he exists by myself? Why do i, a lowly human with very limited sensory capabilities have the job of finding god when he has unlimited capabilities and could prove his existence effortlessly?
That's where people are wrong we are all children.
We all have a father.
We are all seed, bearing fruit after our own kind.
Those who love deeds born in darkness are children born in darkness. Those who love deeds born in light are children born into light. Those who hide from the light do so, so their deeds are not exposed to light. Why do you think everyone hates Jesus?
It doesn't even make sense. Even from a philosophical, all wise, nice kind, be good to people etc .... and ALL the wisdom found in the Bible for parenting, being a great spouse, having honor, being trust worthy etc and wisdom as found in Proverbs, The Queen of Egypt had to go hear Solomen, because His Wisdom was renown, much more than any philosopher, there is some brilliant stuff fround in the Bible, YET everyone in the dark screams to close it! Why?
Well here is a handful on the subject.
John 3
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
Its the judgement because the god of this world, sows seeds in the dark, and his fruit are deeds of darkness. -
(Satan has already been judged so his seeds also are judged)
John 16:11
and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
2 Corinthians 4:4
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
(can't see their way)
1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
(We can't walk in darkness and say we know Him)
1 John 2:11
But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
(blinded)
John 12:46
I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
(transfer us into light - Daniel 12:3 Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. And in 1 Corinthians 15: 50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.)
Luke 11:34
The eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness. ( We can actually see this in people's eyes, but like Jesus says in last days love will wax cold, look at people's eyes now, you can see darkness like an epidemic!) Its like the last few years it happened Overnight - like a THIEF IN THE NIGHT
Matthew 4:16
“The people who were sitting in darkness saw a great Light, And those who were sitting in the land and shadow of death, Upon them a Light dawned.” (He calls to those in the dark, Come Here, to the Light!)
Luke 23:44
It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness fell over the whole land until the ninth hour, (This is actually an account but it is also a Time keeper! 6 the hour - dark to 9th hour dark- to be looked at for people seeking the Kingdom and looking at His Word for jewels and treasures of insight!)
Ephesians 5:13
But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light. (Light exposes darkness, no one comes to the Light if they love darkness!)
I can go to Old and New Testament, every one moved by God said consistently the same things!
Ahh, you are humble. I see it, I don't think you are one that will stay in darkness. God will give you a New Name and write His name on your forehead. I think so. And I hope so.
I have given you hundreds of scripture verses in our arguments. Don't you see consistency? I see nothing but consistency.
Look we don't understand every detail, He has revealed more light to me in 8 weeks than I saw over a few years.
It's REVELATION!! I see and hear not New Light, but freshly revealed light. If you expect God to show you everything in a day, we'll then He pretty much already did.
If you come to Him with all the seeds you just heard, invite me to your events, I'm no public speaker, who knows what God will use you to do, if these start bearing fruit and insight, Lord!
That's why I said, oh you read and know alot, When God adjusts the lense, please don't be driving, it will come at you like Niagara falls!!!
I ain't kidding, I haven't looked at a Bible for like 15 20 years, No one woke me up, and I wasn't in Church, I kinda was slipping away.
And I almost can't take the speed of what I see in the Word passing through my eyes. Just like the 1st time He showed me those 3 questions, it was like for the first time I understood like everything I ever heard, all at once!
LOOK AT THIS!! Jesus built examples to explain everything with even the current event at hand!
“Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear?
And do you not remember, 19 when I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces you picked up?” They said to Him, “Twelve.”
20 “When I broke the seven for the four thousand, how many large baskets full of broken pieces did you pick up?” And they said to Him, “Seven.” 21 And He was saying to them, “Do you not yet understand?”
(HE IS SAYING UNDERSTAND MORE THAN WHAT MEETS THE EYE. OPEN YOUR EYES AND REALLY SEE! )
(AND THIS SAME TEACHING OF THIS CONTINUES IN THE NEXT VERSES!)
22 And they came to Bethsaida. And they brought a blind man to Jesus and implored Him to touch him. 23 Taking the blind man by the hand, He brought him out of the village; and after spitting on his eyes and laying His hands on him, He asked him, “Do you see anything?” 24 And (he looked up and said, “I see men, for I see them like trees, walking around.” 25 Then again He laid His hands on his eyes; and he looked intently and was restored, and began to see everything clearly. 26 And He sent him to his home, saying, “Do not even enter the village.”
You can't see Him with eyes that you want to see Him with.
But you can see Him, if you want eyes that can see Him.
The question is not show me with my eyes, Thomas did that and He showed Him enough to lead Him to other eyes!
You have had that, He showed you enough for you to know there are other eyes needed. He gave you feel, touch, see!
Listen to the atheist to prove the Bible is credible, read the why so you can understand how Good He is, instead of viewing Him from the view point of one sitting in darkness, hiding from Light, and blaming God for being Light.
Love Light and Live!
Now you need other eyes, that only comes one way, count the cost, and decide to follow Him!
Start by asking Him to help you come. Sometimes all we can say is help my stubbornness and call me so I will come!
Matt 14
23 After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray; and when it was evening, He was there alone.
24 But the boat was already a long distance from the land, battered by the waves; for the wind was contrary. 25 And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea. 26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out in fear. 27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, “Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid.”
28 Peter said to Him, “Lord, if it is You, command me to come to
You on the water.” 29 And He said, “Come!” And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But seeing the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, “Lord, save me!” 31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and said to him, “You of little faith, why did you doubt?” 32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped. 33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!”
"How the hell do i go about proving he exists by myself? Why do i, a lowly human with very limited sensory capabilities have the job of finding god when he has unlimited capabilities and could prove his existence effortlessly? "
If you know your dead family member, every ghost story written, the one that knows the ghost sees the ghost, everyone else says "your crazy!"
Look at this passage, Here is your answer!!
Jesus said, He says the Kingdom is like pearls of great worth, finding the merchant trades everything for the pearl.
Then Jesus said in this one speach - don't throw pearls before swine, why? because they are so valuable they should be, MUST be sought. Because then He says Seek! So then he goes into explaining to seek, then He goes into a Father giving gifts, The pearl of great worth is for the children, not for the swine.
And You will understand when you seek.
And He says - seek and you shall find
Matt 13
45 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls, 46 and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.
Matt 7
6 “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
9 Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?
10 Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?
11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!
If your willing start with that, and God will lead you to the next steps.
One scripture He gave me in the beginning, was this -
Ex 23
29 I will not drive them out before you in a single year, that the land may not become desolate and the beasts of the field become too numerous for you. 30 I will drive them out before you little by little, until you become fruitful and take possession of the land.
Count the cost, is there anything you won't pay for the Pearl?
If there is nothing you won't pay then move forward and let Him reign in your life. He will tell you what has to go, or change.
And He does it at a pace you can handle and He builds trust along the way. Like Peter you have to take the step. As long as you count the cost 1st, sometimes you already know what He has a finger on.
If your willing He will show you, and He walk with you, and before you. And will reveal Himself to you.
Well since it was an entire Nation of people as opposed to like say 1 or 2 families, a lucky guess would be close to a brain dead thought.
It's like planning an event, selling out because the skill and talent at the event are exceptional, then being unimpressed at the talent that drew a sold out event, then downplay the talent and call it luck.
Well since it was an entire Nation of people as opposed to like say 1 or 2 families, a lucky guess would be close to a brain dead thought.
It's like planning an event, selling out because the skill and talent at the event are exceptional, then being unimpressed at the talent that drew a sold out event, then downplay the talent and call it luck.
But like i said, the people who established the state of israel after WW2 deliberately fullfilled the book on purpose. They literally cited the bible and said "holy shit we should make sure the state of israel survives". Its not much of a prophecy if the event thats being predicted is carried out by believers of the faith. All im saying is that this prophecy wasnt really divinely carried out in any way. You cant prove that it was divinely inspired just from the bible and it most certainly wasnt divinely carried out. So its pretty poor proof of god. i mean im sure the quran makes similar prophecies about what geographic regions will be like and im sure at least 1 or 2 are right. Would those be persuasive to you?
Dude the leaders of the allied forces drew up israels borders and SENT the jews there after the war. Those leaders did so BECAUSE of their christian faith and knowledge of this very prophecy. They wanted to mantain the existence of israel so they basically made it themselves.
Wow I'm so glad we have that much power to control all that, and clear out their land and back off their enemies for a time, I'm sure they were tickled pink that Israel was coming home. And what's more miraculous, for God to move one people group or to command the Nations to do their part, at their appointed times! And Im sure it was easy to plan that prophesy and make the Muslim Countries cooperate for it, while they got settled in and cozy.
Your more than a puppet, your a dummy. I mean the doll hand puppet.
Do you understand what crazy stuff you just said. Do you think about more steps than what is in your face.
So 1000's of years ago it's prophesied that Israel would be scattered, and horrible scattering. They'd be like driven leaves being pursued. It was so detailed it was like you will all fall from the tree, and as in the letters of Paul where it talks about branches removed and branches grafted in. And I just got a picture of an old prophet word saying they would be scattered and pursed like driven leaves. And if you think about the Holocaust it was like they were individually pursued like driven leaves. And we can't forget that thousands of years ago that God would call Nations to their aid. But I guess somehow we orchestrated the football.?
I'd have to know which regions you are talking about.
I don't know everthing, not a Bible historian.
You read more of the Bible than me, I don't think I ever read it through even 1ce in its entirety. But I know what I know, and I never came to the Word expecting it to be in a neat little box,.
I came understanding that God reveals, and He has revealed things to me.
Raised as a Catholic, I wasn't religious. And when I saw how God reveals things, I knew then that doctrines were of men, and I wanted to be a sheep that heard Him.
And that's exactly what He did, He reveals things like hidden treasures, I can't put it down sometimes.
I think you have to research each fact individually. So if you have a question take time to look at the details, from the natural, it often will give you more understanding of other verses.
There is so much in there it would take an Eternity to uncover!
I was in Genesis 1 for a couple of weeks and I didn't get to day 4 Yet!
He takes me to many other scriptures that explain scriptures, it's like never ending.
It's nuts! My husband is a Christian, like me he kinda fell asleep too, so I started showing him just a few things I was seeing and he was like "verses are like oceans."
It's unbelievable what God has hidden for us to find!
Proverbs 2: 3-5
3 For if you cry for discernment,
Lift your voice for understanding;
4 If you seek her as silver
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will discern the fear of the Lord
And discover the knowledge of God.
Matt 13
45 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls, 46 and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.
^^^^^
44 “The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field
^^^
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable.
35 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet:
“I will open My mouth in parables;
I will utter things hidden since the foundation of the world.”
^^^^
“The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
26 But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
^^^^
18 “Hear then the parable of the sower.
19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has
been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.
He gives wisdom to wise men
And knowledge to men of understanding.
22 “It is He who reveals the profound and hidden things;
He knows what is in the darkness,
And the light dwells with Him.“Drip down, O heavens, from above,
And let the clouds pour down righteousness;
Let the earth open up and salvation bear fruit,
And righteousness spring up with it.
I, the Lord, have created it.
9 “Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker—
An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth!
Will the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you doing?’
Or the thing you are making say, ‘He has no hands’?
6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there will be delay no longer, 7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.
God didn't define sin, It is self defined by its seed after its own kind!
He established in Genesis 1 - that seeds grow after their own kind God said - "and it was so" OR God said -"and He saw it was good."
Leaving things behind and following Him feels like an unreasonable command.
Some things to cleared up shown in Genesis.
God is Light, Genesis 1, and if we look beyond the story of basic creation, it is far from a basic story.
He Separates Light from Darkness on Day 1
He defines earth, as formless and void, and the depth is dark and it's surrounded in darkness. He breaks the darkness by adding Light, and Light itself pushes darkness to its boundary.
Where Light IS NOT;
Then Darkness IS!!
On Day 1 -
He separated out darkness from Light and He DRAWS a dividing boundary line!
And then He explains it to us right there in Genesis 1, through the days.
And then He precedes to define
it throughout all of His Word.
God constantly is giving everyone in His light and also those in darkness detailed instructions, calling for any people who want to be in His light.
While through time He places all things, events, and hosts throughout the timeline.
Then to unfold at specific appointed times. Making many examples and events purposely meant to define, and establish every detail, while placing His appointed hosts of Light, and guides of Light throughout His Word.
He also was continuously diligent in pulling people who were in darkness over into light, so the darkness wouldn't overtake them.
Satan fell into darkness, so even he didn't create sin, sin is growth from seeds born in the darkness. Satan also grew into what he is from the seeds of darkness.
Satan was in light at one time, he wasn't in light thinking of what dark thing to do. But as soon as pride entered he became full of it since "everything grows" God lets you grow your hearts desires, and it becomes you, consumes you, Till he delivers you over to the mind of the beast. As you think, so you are.
And that which is dark consumes, so then what happened to the Morning Star Satan? ... He fell like lightening into darkness. Why?
Such a quick shooting fall, because darkness can't remain in light.
I will ... I will ... I will ... is against the Light and against His will. And God understands Light - no darkness can remain in Light!
Nothing about darkness can remain or cross the boundary into light and remain dark, it shrinks back, light pushes and repels darkness.
But when there is only a little light, darkness can overtake light and push light back. But the two cant exist AS ONE!
Not because He doesn't love those who choose darkness, but the darkness itself can't remain in light.
Can darkness and light be one?
So then, how can those who choose darkness remain in light?
So, we see darkness simply exists, Satan fell into it, and then he became just what he, Satan, wanted. And in "judgement" since the god of this world is already judged, God also GAVE HIM, Satan over to his lusts. And by Satan's own judgement he fell into the darkness that marked him, given the mind that is darkened, full of his darkness that consumed him, and he became the god of the darkness, and the father of its seed!
Just like his heart wanted. He became god (a god.)
The already judged god of this world's darkness producing already judged seeds of darkness, taking root in flesh he is destined to eat and hunger after all the days of his life. So those who eat the fruit eat the fruit that forms in the void, sin born from seeds of darkness.
The rule of God and Judgement is this, whatever you eat takes root, and becomes you, whatever takes root is its fruit, and that defines your tree. Repent and He will prune you, and water you with pure water, and He will forgive you of your bad fruit and replant you in conditions that produce in you the best fruits.
Children of Light learn darkness is their enemy, and in the end they become grown up children of light, just like their father!
Children of Darkness learn to repel light and hate light, because when exposed it is seen for what it is, darkness. It's a bright room, looking down a darkened hall to see an even darker room.
The other side of the double edged sword, is God let's the heart have what it wants. Because the heart doesn't respond to Him the Light, as to their Father. Showing they choose their father, and their deeds are seeds growing in them producing the image of their father in the darkness. So they stay with their father.
God is destroying darkness and Satan in the end, and all of the seeds and trees born into darkness. It simply can't and won't exist when He brings His Kingdom, which has no night or darkness, and has no seeds born in darkness, including pain sickness and disease.
The darkness gets to stay in darkness as it IS their hearts desire!
He doesn't force anyone out of darkness, who's heart He knows is SET on darkness.
He defines Light this way, He says this is what is "Good" to me.
"and He saw it was Good"
On Day 2
He separates water from water - Day 2
And He separates water from water and He says "it was so"
Then He names the expanse Heaven.
Now, if you go to Genesis 2 -
water is coming out of Eden - Waters His Garden - Then splits
into 4 RIVERS of water!
This is why when God separates water from water, He says "and it was so" because whatever is "and it was so," means it is left to unfold, according to the world and man in it, with the influence of the god of this world. So then free will cares and cultivates these things that are "and it was so"
Whereas Things God BROUGHT TO THE DARK WORLD is "He saw and it was good."
What the world's fruitfulness of darkness makes it unfolds as it grows. The hosts God puts in, that are hosts of darkness, are chosen based on foreknowledge of choices they would make. And these He then predestined in their places at the appointed time, to be instruments and vessels of dishonor. While everyone else, everything else, sickness, sin, death, pain, war, hate, etc... unfolds seed after its kind "and it was so." !!
Their choices taking root and growing through time till the end.
Even God was shocked at how grieved He could be striving with man ...
Genesis 6: 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”
- - - -
So we see God says to Noah I see the end of this flesh growth, and I can't stand to look at what this darkness produces, and men love it!
- - -
The Earth is filled with sins seed growing, and taking root, seed after its kind, here in man, in the darkness.
And He in the Word "Son's of God" "producing seeds in the daughters of man!"
Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.
4 The Nephilim were on the earth
in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6
11 Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.
13 Then God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth. 14 Make for yourself an ark ...
Then God pours out a flood and restarts man again, and again judgement we see self consuming, God releasing the boundaries, letting their darkness overcome them. And the ways of light then become hidden. Because they have hidden from the light, now darkness is x 6 6 6 "lest their deeds become exposed” the Light exposes and pushes darkness back into darkness, making another child of Light!
Both produce after its own kind. A world full of tares among wheat, unripe fruit and trees destroyed by insects and disease among fruit trees that are bearing good ripe fruit in perfect conditions to grow!
And those trees tend to be on farms or locations together, if a drought or a swarm of locusts comes through they are attacked in groups of trees. If the grape vines and fruit trees arrested in thriving conditions they are also in gatherings.
The conditions you grow in or choose to grow in are self producing seed after its own kind, or self mutilating by choosing to grow in adverse conditions. And about tares Jesus says, enemies sow them within the good batches of wheat. Which He will then separate in the end.
How does He separate in the end, at the harvest. He sends out the reapers and uproot the tares!
Well there is lots here. Hopefully you see a little better.
But if your choice is darkness no matter what is true, then either God has to bring you to a surrender, or you are one to be swept away by this time period, as He pours out everything He is pouring to clearly defined what is marked of the world and what is marked with His Seal! See Revelations, and Luke 17, and Matt 24.
Everything is getting marked, the mark of the beast is Satan's image the god and father of the darkness of this world, His Seed that is at Enmity of The Woman's Seed, as told to Satan when he was cursed all the way back in the beginning!
Which brings us to Day 3
The day of the Resurrection, the day of Salvation, The day of a grain of wheat falling to the ground and dying so then after it yields a crop of wheat. And of fruit trees, bearing fruit after their kind.
He says "and He saw it was good" or He says the phrase "and it was so" !
So then somethings simply are said to be and grow "and it was so" !! Where other things "He saw it was good"
God started separating light from darkness and established pure water and just water that is controlled by man in the darkness or in the light.
But children of light go to the garden to be watered, or they go to the stream that isn't polluted through the fork dividing the pure water into 4 rivers
Genesis 2
10 Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold.
12 The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is Tigris; it flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
So On Day 3
He separates Sea and makes them "gather" in one place
He exposes dry ground ready to grow things after their own kind
(Fruit trees weeds grass plants etc) AND He says of some "and it was so" to other things He says "and it was good"
These all can be looked at for more.
Day 4 Time and defines hosts
Day 5 Fills Sea and Sky
Day 6 Makes Beast and Man
Cain and Abel - Abel is martyred
The dark world hates light! Seeds of darkness hate light and hate seeds of light.
this is one crazy book, with its diverse authors constantly doing the same thing in Genesis!
We misinterpret a short email, or a short text delivered through just writing.
These guys born generations apart followed a oneness, flowing together Having a oneness in its intention, and a oneness in its direction.
Its not even reasonable to have this dynamic in our human nature.
We can't even make a conspiracy together with practice and planning without massive feats of cover up or be exposed! God is Great!
Hello, just commenting as a friend. It's true that not everyone believes that there is a god, because we don't see Him in a physical being. Even people who believe in God or Jesus, like me, often doubt if He is really there, unless they saw a vision of Jesus or were visited by Him.
There are people who doubted God's existence. But we have the Bible which is the Basis of this. And there is a place which is the proof where Jesus once lived, this country is Israel.
Are you sure it was badly written? In fact its words are perfectly structured.
Yes he died but he won over Satan.... and this satan is the source of all evil that happened to our world. And because GOD won on that event Satan wants that all people would not believe on him. Now Satan is working on different ways with his deceiving tactics but that would not let satan win over God because God is the MOST powerful.
No. He died, then resurrected. The story continues, to show that he resurrected and was the ultimate sacrifice for our wicked little selves and all our sins, so that we WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO TO HELL, which is where all the unbeliever's are going. Sir, please put your trust in the one true God you know is real, before judgement day.
I never said they are "the worst people on the planet." In fact, Jesus himself loves unbelievers, and desires that they be saved. I have a sense of humor, but I take things seriously in this debate. ;)
I never said they are "the worst people on the planet."
You mean to tell me that Hell is not the place where the bad people go? Make up your mind. Is Hell the bad place where the worst people go, or is it the good place where non believers go.
In fact, Jesus himself loves unbelievers, and desires that they be saved.
So, you aren't following Christ, where do you end up for not properly following Christ?
I have a sense of humor, but I take things seriously in this debate. ;)
It's a bad place where unbelievers go, they don't have to be "bad people" but if they don't believe in Christ they will go to hell.
It's not a matter of following him properly. Everyone sins against God. Nobody's perfect and we all mess up, but if you confess your sins and ask him to forgive you for them, he will.
So, you believe in a God that sends good people to hell. Why would you believe in that? Doesn't it bother you that good people are sent to a bad place?
They may be good people on the outside side but everyone sins and inside their hearts there is nothing but selfishness and evil if they don't desire and/or know God.
Your view of the world is disgusting. You think children are only full of selfishness and evil because they are not able to know God. But, you think a serial killer who says he desires to know God is not full of selfishness and evil. Do you really believe that Atheists are only filled with selfishness and evil? Sounds kind of evil for you to believe in that.
Well I am an atheist, and I do good stuff not because I believe that I will be rewarded for it, but because its the right thing to do. You on the other hand only do it because you think it will earn you a spot in your "supposed" afterlife, (btw the bible says you only need to believe and ask for forgivness from jesus in order to get to heaven, so technically you don't need to do good by your belief) , it sounds like you have a more selfish motivation here
So a female atheist who has done good her whole life, given to charity, volunteered at hospitals, etc, is raped and murdered by a man who is a christian, according to your logic, the woman would be burning in hell for all eterniety simply for not believing in god, disregarding all the good things she did in life. Meanwhile the murderer/rapist would go to heaven when he dies, despite the atrocities he commited simply because he believed in God and asked for forgivness. Now I must ask you, doesn' t this logic sound messed up to you?
Only because you put it like that! Do you know these people of whom you have just made an example with? The gender is of no matter and as long as the person doesn't not believe in God or trust in him he will go to hell when he dies.
I never said the gender mattered, I was simply giving an example based off some possible figures, there exist atheists who do many charitable acts such as Warren Buffet, while there are Christians who have been murderers and rapists like Jeffery Dahmer, the bible says the only way to get in to heaven is through Jesus Christ, those who don't accept him go to hell. But then how about the many parts of the world where people have never heard of Christ? Do they deserve to be tortured? If you truly take the bible at its word, then you must believe that Hitler (who was Catholic) is in heaven living in eternal bliss, while all the jews who died at his hand in the holocaust are roasting in hell for all eternety because they don't accept Christ.
You know, your god has committed so many atrocities, yet your so called devil seems to have commited none, all he seems to do is suggest something to someone else, he has never killed anyone in the bible, god has many times. Just sayin
Your quiet right God in the bible kills 2.8 million ( some scholars say 15 million) satan 10 and that's because God had a bet with him he wouldn't do it ... Fucked up or what and satan is the bad guy ? That's some pr team the brute in the sky has .
Hell aka Lake of fire. Hmm. Judgement day. hmm Second Death. hmm Hey all of this sound like Osiris and the Egyptian book of the dead. There is no judgement day. There is no second death. Finally there is no hell/ lake of fire. All of that is Egyptian Mythology.
What do you mean read it again? There is the preamble (Old Testament), then Jesus comes around, then Jesus gets killed, then Jesus resurrects and the story continues for a while. Maybe what happened is that you closed the book after the main character died and didn't realize there was more. Hehe. ;)
why is God always pissed off?
Imagine you had a school project you were working on and the teacher gave you the semester to do it. You wait until there is a week left on the assignment. Then, you realize that the project was a semester long because it involved creating an entire universe. So, you throw together the entire project in 6 days and pass out for a whole day before it is due. You turn it in and the teacher reveals that every semester for the rest of your schooling involves updating the semester long project. Since you didn't take the time and effort you were supposed to, some mistakes were made. How do you avoid being pissed all the time when you did such a bad job and have to fix the mistakes all the time?
Ha Ha it ain't exactly a page turner now is it ? I hear you on the school room scenario but there's getting mad and getting God mad genocidal mad at school might not be a good thing ... Unless ...., your God Ha Ha Ha
Well, it was probably just Him turning his project upside down and hitting the bottom of it to get the humans to fall off. Apparently He thought He had really screwed up the project somewhere. Plus, He seems to be a procrastinator, so that might make Him tense as well.
He's not pissed off. He's more like a father who reprimands his child. It's not "omygoodness, you are being punished because God is angry about you!" I think it's more like a reminder that He is there, maybe? He's pretty hard to understand. Of course, because He's God...yeah yeah. Hmm...how should I explain this...(you're probably tired of hearing all this crap, right? Lol) Wow, christianity is pretty hard to explain.
He is bringing darkness to an end to establish a city of just light.
Darkness can't stand so He is separating it, so as to bring those who love Light into the Kingdom of Light which He had planned from the beginning. You don't understand it because you are being decieved.
He is pouring out His judgement separating dark from Light now.
Dark is getting darker and we will see the sleeping people wake up and burn their lamps in the night!
After death he rises again. In the END he is coming back and there will be a new heaven and a new earth! It's not fiction and it was written only a few thousand years ago by real people, people who were inspired and walked by God himself! Not to mention it's the best book in the world because it actually happened!
Why thank you , and yes I guessed that as you are pretty busy grovelling to the hide and seek champ , so full credit to you and of course the invisible dictator ..., don be shy take a bow .....
Yes I know you will because your a God fearing Christian so you better get down on your knee's .... Again and grovel ( he likes a bit of praise ) and shhhh! Don't tell anyone Honey but you know when you talk to someone isn't there ... It's called madness...
It seems that God bothers you a lot more than He should, considering that you "don't believe" in Him. I don't believe in global warming, but I don't have much of an interest in talking about it constantly. Don't tell anyone, sweetie, but your problem isn't disbelief... it's called obsession. Shhh!
Oh really, this is a debate site? Then wouldn't you agree that members should debate as opposed to belittle and mock? Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but there's a difference between simply disagreeing with something, and hating something.
What's up with all the question marks? Are you really surprised that people on a site that revolves around arguing are trying to offend you and attack your beliefs?
If I ever happen to need your renound wisdom, I'll ask for it. As for now, I just can't handle such a level of knowledge. Allow me a few days to process what you've presented to me.
Really sorry Amy I know your fussy about grammar and punctuation , but maybe you should try working on your spelling honey you see the word you used should be RENOWNED not renound. It's ok though you can use that link you sent me for 6 year olds ,have a feeling you use it a lot, I think that's what they call to use a sporting analogy game ... Set... Match.. Talk soon honey ....,
Alright! You're obviously just too smart for that kind of information! By the way, next time you plan on using sarcasm... you might want to check your vocabulary. Renound isn't a word.
She sure does I'm afraid I'm guilty of upsetting her quiet a bit, but surely her parents warned her about poking a hornet's nest .... Somehow I don't think I'm going to be asked over to roast chestnuts at the fire this Christmas lol
"Renound" is a common replacement for "renowned", as I previously explained. Whether or not it's proper is debatable, but its usage is not. If it offends you, Walmart sells tissues. It seems that both of you may need them!
It's only a "common" replacement for your use of the word... which is wrong. You're just stubborn and unwilling to take criticism. It doesn't offend me anymore than your poorly constructed insults, which aren't offensive... just funny. Obviously the one who is offended is you. Maybe you should head up to your nearest pharmacy to pick up an antipsychotic.
The only way that "renound" would be a variation of renowned, would be if it were the British spelling of the word... and I'm sure you could support me in that it in fact isn't an alternative spelling of the word.
Ha Ha the links she sent me that cite the word she spells "renound" are from half wits that can't spell in face book , I give up she is barking mad my friend .
Yeah, you're actually right. It should be "any more". Anymore is basically a substitution for "presently". So you corrected my typo, but the difference between mine and yours, is that mine was clearly a typo. I know why mine was wrong... yet you misspelled a word and still argued that it was a correct alternative, which it isn't.
You did misspell it! Caramel vs. carmel isn't a real thing and neither is tomato vs. "toe-mah-toe" because those aren't correct spellings. Are you trying to say that you spell it the way you pronounce it? Oh... ohkay, I gess that maykes sinse!
Just because you're spelling it the way you deem fit, doesn't mean it's right.
Amy honeybee what a surprise I sort of worked out you didn't believe in that ole global warming stuff ( atheist thinking) Amy dear lets be blunt here ... Because no one knows what your saying honey ... Doesn't mean your an artist ok and honey seen as you and I are so friendly if I may just say Shhhh...If opposites attract then I hope you meet someone who is attractive, honest, intelligent, and cultured ... Love ya to bits sweety .
Sugar bear, you really should stop molesting the English language. It doesn't do well for you when you're attempting to sound more intellectually advanced than someone else. It makes me feel embarrassed for your sake. Here, allow a theist to help you!
When you're addressing someone else at the beginning of a sentence, you should place a comma after their name. You failed to place one between "Amy" and "honeybee". Most people wouldn't be very concerned about such a minor mistake, so you won't have to worry about it next time. After all, I'm sure you'll make this error again.
There also should've been a comma after "honeybee" (which technically should've been two separate words). It looks as if you are addressing someone by the name of Amy Honeybee, and if that is the case, you should've capitalized the "H". Make up your mind!
Actually, what kind of sentence is "what a surprise I sort of worked out..."? Can you elaborate?
It is not proper to place a space between your opening parentheses and the first letter within the pair of parentheses.
Again, sweetheart, you should've placed a comma between "Amy" and "dear", otherwise it looks as if you're addressing someone by the name of Amy Dear.
It's time to teach you a bit about contractions. The word "lets" without an apostrophe should only be used to describe the act of "allowing", such as: "God lets us make atheists look ridiculous when they pretend to be smart". I believe you meant to say "let's", which means "let us".
You shouldn't begin an ellipse with a space, and you made that mistake twice.
This is a piece that you desperately need to pay attention to. "Your" should never be used when you're trying to say "you are". This lesson somewhat ties into the lesson on contractions that I gave you. Here is a link to help you further, perhaps you can use it as a reference guide later.
"your an artist ok and honey seen as you..." I'm having immense trouble understanding what this means. Did you mean to say "you're an artist, okay, and honey, seeing as you"? Was that close to what you really meant? Either way, what does it mean?
There is just so much wrong with your grammar. I really can't help you with all of it, I'm only one person. I'm thinking a trip back to kindergarten may benefit you greatly. If you don't want to be thrown into a classroom with six year old children, don't worry! There are much less humiliating alternatives. Here is a link to a wonderful home school curriculum, and it can even take you back as early as pre-kindergarten! Good luck!
Thats a bit of a temper you got there Amy , ok it's fine your a Christian you's all seem to have a problem with anger ( can God not help?) . I'm also thrilled your English studies are going so well , and yes commas , colons and full stops are what's important in life , and how could anyone compete with someone so clever . There were a couple of famous authors over here (Ireland ) who weren't overly concerned with colons , full stops , and commas, Shaw , Joyce , Beckett they were more concerned with meaning but they were probably wrong , great advise though thanks .
Thank you for your insight I'm refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view.
If you find this hard to understand sorry( no colons , commas, etc) get one of the clever tutors you have they are I'm sure very clever because ( there American ) we Irish can learn so much off a super power ... thanks Amy.
I really dont know what your problem is but I sure bet it's hard to pronounce .
Maybe you should think about writing a book on colons , commas etc , it certainly had me on the edge of my seat you have a special way of making these subjects fun .
can we talk soon honey ? I'm missing you already .
As you can see, "renound" is a common replacement for "renowned". Whether or not it's proper is debatable, but its usage is not. If it bothers you, however, feel free to overlook it and attempt to teach me something else about my grammar. I'm sure you can't. :)
Anyway, where is this anger you speak of? I've been perfectly cordial. There has been no name-calling or bullying of any sort. Perhaps the problem isn't my temper, but simply your over-sensitivity? It's okay, I guarantee your local Walmart sells cheap tissues. :)
We don't have Walmart here , and no you have never been cordial to me , if you treat me with courtesy you will get it back , but your just nasty . I have thanked other Christians here for at least respecting my viewpoint and yes I seen some of your remarks to others and yes you are a pretty unhappy person.
As regards your invention of a new word ehhh no you were corrected by me and someone else but you insist your right ( again) your word does not exist , except in your fevered brain.
And you finish again with your nasty little girl remarks about cheap tissues , listen if you and hubby work shifts in Walmart suck it up it isn't my fault. Bet you make your parents proud now quit stalking me .
In the end, you aren't at liberty to correct my single "misspelling" of a common substitute until you clean up your countless other mistakes.
Now as far as your "courtesy" argument goes, I'd suggest you rewind back to the beginning of this debate between us. I began with a completely inoffensive (though heavily sarcastic) comment. You threw the personal hits, not me. You had no intention of legitimately discussing anything, but merely calling me unattractive, unintelligent, etc. Classic signs of someone who really has no material to work with. Therefore, courtesy would not be extended from me, and it still won't. Sorry.
It's not a common substitute you foolish person except in your stupid world .
I did rewind and how can sarcasm not be offensive you started this whole sorry affair .
I don't want anything from you , your an extremely nasty dim witted creature and I agree with guitar guy you need your nearest pharmacy.... Quick.
A fine example of your typical Christian ....good luck with your new word launch , it hasn't caught on here what's frightening is your so crazy you believe your own lies about a stupid word .
See, again you demonstrate your disgusting hypocrisy. Classic atheist retort: "You stupid fucking dimwitted ugly ass nasty pigfucking shiteating crackhead... I'm a nice atheist, but you're a bad Christian!" <--- Yeah, that makes sense.
Yes your just demonstrating for all to see what a nice Christian really is , why so angry . It's no ones fault except yours you left school early , and it's actually good you want to improve yourself ( night school) and get the education your folks never had .
When your hubby gets parole you's can all be happy again.
That's one bad Christian temper you have , life not going well, would you not try praying it's meant to help?.
Your a marvellous example of why some animals eat there young, and being savaged by you is like being attacked by a dead sheep.
Bet you make your parents glow with pride ..... Christian yeah right .
There's some more of that hypocrisy. Please do continue, it literally makes me laugh that someone can be this unaware of how ridiculous they sound.
Just out of curiosity: Are all these things that you're saying actually reflecting your own life? See, when a bully picks on someone they don't know, it's usually to build themselves up. This is pretty well-known information. When a girl calls another girl fat, for instance, it's because she's insecure about her own body. You really shouldn't be giving all this information about yourself over the internet.
So tell me, did your parents not graduate? If they didn't, it's alright, you can still make something of yourself. The only things I see you need help with is your grammar skills and perhaps your confidence. You seem highly insecure. And it's quite a pity that your wife is in jail. What crime did she commit? Is she a danger to you and your family? If so, there are battered men's shelters as well, they aren't just for women.
Ha Ha a bully says the foul mouthed "woman"attacking 3 different people your really getting boring now , why this constant anger ? Oh yes and your right everyone can see your lovely sweet language in your last post , your a proper little tyrant who has to get her own way .
Somewhere out there is a tree, tirelessly producing oxygen so you can breathe. I think you owe it an apology.
That's not material stupid just people correcting your dimwitted lies, just because you never finished schooling it's not my fault , if you eventually qualify from beauty school we will all be so proud of you .....
So let me get this straight, you reject global warming, despite there being supported by almost 97% of scientists and is clearly being observed by the melting of glaciers, rise in sea levels, change in weather patterns, etc. but you believe in a magical genie in the sky that grants your wishes? People like you are gonna get us all killed , keep your stupid superstitions to yourself and please, if you ever have any children, dont spread this bull, ok? Thank you
Oh dear she's attacking everyone now obviously a very unhappy kitten .... And I can't even pray for her...and if you can't take tantrum throwing stop doing it, try work on that new word you have invented or your punctuation and spelling , or print up your global warming theory prove all them science folk wrong .... May even get a noble prize ( beats beauty school) ... Go get them Tiger ....,.
(Sarcasm following)I know? Ha! I mean facts and logic, these stupid atheists and their "logic" lol, no thanks, I'll stick to my ancient book of contradicting fairytales full of rape, murder, genocide, torture, slavery, pedophilia, etc. yep
I think we both no that the World wasn't created in 7 days, that the universe isn't a few thousand or so years old, that we aren't all descended from two people called Adam and Eve, that there wasn't a giant flood and some how two of every species of animals on the planet where fitted in one boat.
Yes, I don't believe in any God only making your own way to happiness (and guiding other's there too) without hoping an invisible sky fairy who controls everything. will do it for you.
Actually, I KNOW that happened. And everyone knows there is a God. They don't like the fact, so they say they don't believe in Him. Sir, right now, at this very moment, your questioning whether God really is real. Why? Because you know that He is real.
And everyone knows there is a God. They don't like the fact, so they say they don't believe in Him. Sir, right now, at this very moment, your questioning whether God really is real. Why? Because you know that He is real.
And everyone knows there is a god. They don't like the fact, so they say they don't believe in Zeus. Sir, right now, at this very moment, your questioning whether Zeus really is real. Why? Because you know that Zeus is real.
You. You do not know what you are talking about. If you'd think and actually read, maybe you'd understand. Instead, however, I will try my best to help you. The Bible says that the world was created in seven days. However, it also says in Psalms that time is different to God, going as to say that one day to Him is to 1,000 days to us. Also, how could this population not come from two of the same species? That just makes sense. Logic would state that a human would need another to mate. And, I mean, not every animal is gonna evolve into a man at the same time. It doesn't work like that. There had to be a beggining to the population.
Complete and utter garbage which contradicts itself constantly, what other book would we allow with so many blatant lies and contradictions here are a couple Theological doctrines:
1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7
And that's only the start absolute nonsense of the highest order
When you said "There is a plurality of Gods," I know what you mean, but your wrong. It says, "Let US make man in our image." Well, God, when He said "us," He means "us" as in the Trinity. God the Father, His Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. He wasn't talking about some other random god's/god
Oh dear your really not very good on your bible Joel , where's I'm an expert chapter and verse , and you have no right to change Gods word and put your own context on them remember he said " change not one iota" but that's ok he forgot to put in unless your Joel well check out what's going to happen you for that sin .. Correcting the word of God oh dear....I do apologise for using the "good book" against you it's a bit unfair , why don't you use science against me ? And I do appreciate the time you take to show what the bible really means according to Joel .
Dermot, PLEASE tell me what I changed! TELL ME. You called the Bible "God's word" and you say your an expert chapter and verse. Well, it sounds to me, like you believe in the Bible and God.....Well, I proved your "contradictions" wrong. They are not contradictions. Why? Because some things are taken literally and some aren't. GIVE ME ONE JUST ONE GOOD "CONTRADICTION." RIGHT NOW please.
Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:26-27 Trees came before Adam.
Genesis 2:4-9 Trees came after Adam.
Genesis 1:20-21 and 26-27 Birds were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Birds were created after Adam.
Genesis 1:24-27 Animals were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Animals were created after Adam.
Genesis 1:26-27 Adam and Eve were created at the same time.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:21-22 Adam was created first, woman sometime later. Watch more denials from you , you can't even admit it like a man , this is the 50th contradiction how any more do you need ?
You go and disappear for four hours and then you can't even read the quotes I sent you , so again your saying your book is wrong and you lying God is wrong , you are extremely childish Joel I did expect more but that's what Christians are best at lying....
If you don't believe the Bible how do you know so many passages? The point is to lead people to Christ and purify them in him, so that they may have eternal life in heaven with Jesus. It seems like God's view changes offend, but he knew what was coming when he made the world. He knew Adam and Eve would be tempted by Satan, and he knew the world would have sin. And when it says things like 'Jesus did not go into the temple' that is only to let you know he wasn't still there, or it was not the will of the Father for him to be there then. He doesn't change his mind. He is perfect in character and decisions.
There is 1 God but there is a trinity. The father, the son, and the holy spirit. three in one. It's hard to grasp for some people but you have to have faith.
If you don't believe the Bible how do you know so many passages?
Because unlike most christians we've actually read this shit! And its usefull to use in debate against you. And wait, just because we read the bible means we have to believe it? I dont believe harry potter is true but i can recite almost the whole book and movie lines. (oh, fun fact: in a survey taken between christians and atheists, atheists scored FAR higher on biblical knowledge sections AND science than christians)
He knew Adam and Eve would be tempted by Satan, and he knew the world would have sin.
Then why make adam and eve? Why make satan for that matter? In the genesis story there are countless ways to solve the most simple of problems which seem to evade god's empty head.
There is 1 God but there is a trinity. The father, the son, and the holy spirit. three in one. It's hard to grasp for some people but you have to have faith.
ive heard it explained as the phases of water: liquid water, ice, and steam. all one substance with the same chemical composition but all the same.
And sorry, smart people dont believe random stuff from heresay and old books told by guys in fancy dresses and hats. we question things. thats why humanity got this far
Your using the Bible as evidence that the Bible isn't true? Well guess what, "Buddy", whenever you have evidence for anything, that 'said' evidence needs to be true, to make your whole argument believable. So basically, your using the Bible as 'evidence' that the Bible is false. So by using the Bible to prove the Bible is false, you're basically admitting the Bible is true.
THEN WHY MAKE ADAM AND EVE?
Well, you seem to know a fair amount about the Bible. It sounds like you believe that Adam and Eve existed.......anyways, why would he make them? He (God) knew sin would enter the world, and He wanted to be glorified by his "Elect." So, to make God's mercy, and grace, even more abounding, he made Adam and Eve. You may be asking (?). Well, Adam and Eve, has their sons, they had sons, they had sons, down all the way to us. So, when we see how awful we are and how wicked/sinful we are, we fall on our knees, and are humbled, and come to Him. Then, as a believer we glorify Him and realize that b/c of Sin, it (sin) shows us how wicked we are and that MAKES US WANT TO GLORIFY HIM. <<<----- That's only PART of the purpose.
THAT'S WHY HUMANITY GOD THIS FAR
!?!?!?!?! We got this far, because GOD, BEING MERCIFUL, AND GRACIOUS, IS LETTING THE UNBELIEVERS GO ON WITH LIFE IN THEIR SINFUL AND DESPICABLE WAYS WHEN ALL OF US DESERVE TO BE BURNING IN HELL FOR ETERNITY RIGHT NOW!!!
BUT, because of God's mercy, he sent his son, so we wouldn't have to go to Hell.
Your using the Bible as evidence that the Bible isn't true?
No, im using outside evidence to prove it isnt true. Science has disproven those biblical claims. Also yes the bible does often defeat itself. Using sections of the bible to contradict other sections is a valid argument. using section of the bible to prove what the bible says is true is NOT a valid argument.
Well guess what, "Buddy", whenever you have evidence for anything, that 'said' evidence needs to be true, to make your whole argument believable.
couldnt agree more. We have geological proof the flood never happened. Besides the obvious fact that all non-sea plant life and non brackish adaptable fish wouldve died out. And the fact that billions of gallons of water dont materialize out of nowhere.
THEN WHY MAKE ADAM AND EVE?
Another good question. Why bother making them if hes just gonna fuck them over?
Well, you seem to know a fair amount about the Bible. It sounds like you believe that Adam and Eve existed....
Not at all. When i talk about biblical claims im speaking hypothetically. i do not in any way believe anything in genesis is true.
anyways, why would he make them? He (God) knew sin would enter the world, and He wanted to be glorified by his "Elect."
He couldve made them without introducing sin. He didnt have to make satan or the tree of knowledge of good and evil or he couldve made them but put them far away from adam and eve and the fall wouldve never happened. God knew before he made everything that this stuff would happen but he made it anyway, therfore he CAUSED it to happen.
So, to make God's mercy, and grace, even more abounding, he made Adam and Eve.
He is so full of himself he needed little drones to kiss his ass. god is the most pridefull and arrogant narcisist ever.
You may be asking (?). Well, Adam and Eve, has their sons, they had sons, they had sons, down all the way to us.
According to christian theology yeah. But if you knew anything about genetics youd know this is impossible. Two humans cannot create a sustainable lineage alone. The inbreeding would cause so many complications it wouldnt last more than a decade at best.
So, when we see how awful we are and how wicked/sinful we are, we fall on our knees, and are humbled, and come to Him
Christianity defines human nature itself as sinfull. Its basically a giant sin to just exist. That is a stupid thing to preach. Your religion is entirely based of self hatred and its focal point is human sacrifice. sickening. get a self-help book.
Then, as a believer we glorify Him and realize that b/c of Sin, it (sin) shows us how wicked we are and that MAKES US WANT TO GLORIFY HIM. <<<----- That's only PART of the purpose.
So basically the main purpose of the religion is to kiss gods ass. great
THAT'S WHY HUMANITY GOD THIS FAR
You do realize that religion, your especially, has commited so many atrocities against humanity and societal advancement over the years that it led to the dark ages and the near extinction of humanity right? Religion has been a constant hold back on humanity, not a booster.
!?!?!?!?! We got this far, because GOD, BEING MERCIFUL, AND GRACIOUS, IS LETTING THE UNBELIEVERS GO ON WITH LIFE IN THEIR SINFUL AND DESPICABLE WAYS WHEN ALL OF US DESERVE TO BE BURNING IN HELL FOR ETERNITY RIGHT NOW!!!
Read that back to yourself and then try to understand how fucked up that sounds. I am no more "sinfull" than you. I dont rape or murser or steal (rape isnt even a sin btw). The only difference between you and i is belief in god. So if i deserve to burn and be tortured for eternity simply because im not convinced that god exists when he has provided ZERO evidence that he exists and left tons of evidence showing that he DOESNT exist, then your god is truly evil. Belief is something you can control. you either believe or you dont. I just am not convinced. HE could convince me, but he doesnt. And thusly, i dont even think hes real. So excuse me for not blindly following your psychopathic cult.
BUT, because of God's mercy, he sent his son, so we wouldn't have to go to Hell.
Why create hell? why create satan? oh and lastly, WHY NOT JUST FORGIVE? you talk so much about gods mercy and forgiveness but he cant even forgive the littlest things! Instead of forgiving he forced a human sacrifice! He does all this shit in the bible that is totally unnecessary if he could just swallow his pride, suck it up and forgive. but he cant. he is literally incapable of it. (hypothetically because again, i dont think he even exists)
God's existence is so mysterious that even we humans can't reach God because God is God and we, we are just imperfect humans and sinners, and our knowledge is limited.
u are full of ignorance and immaturity placing ur thought in tht only christians read the bible it is a book and not all non belivers hate christianity they just do not believe and in all onesty it is not ur place to judge if u r christian for it says in the bible to judge ur own christian but not ur own man for that is gods place hunny just read the bible a few more times maybe ull catch that drift of stink weve all already smelled
Most of the verses listed aren't taken literally. They are a form of speech. For example, "God dwells in light." Yes, He does. Not light, from the Sun or a lamp. "God dwells in darkness," read the passage and CONTEXT. It's literally talking about darkness, as in a dark room.
Again your are disobeying your bible Jesus is very clear on the law but you know more than him so you can change what he said 1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.
Yes, he is seen and heard. at least, He was, Jesus manifested Himself, and took on the form of a human being. God or the Holy Spirit cannot be seen, and is not heard.
You just stated God can't be seen wrong again(Gen. 17:1) – “Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty ; Walk before Me, and be blameless;
(Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”
(Exodus 6:2-3) – “God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD; 3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.” You said God or the Holy Spirit is not seen or heard..... Your book not mine wrong again, sorry Joel using your book you have been wrong every time
Why are you using the Bible as evidence that the Bible is false?? You don't Believe in the Bible, and yet your using it as evidence that the Bible is false. Evidence for anything, should be true if you want your argument to be believable. BUT no, you think the Bible is false. SOOO, your evidence, the Bible, in your eyes is false. So your using "false" evidence to prove something false. That's ridiculous!
"Evidence for anything should be true"...,, Your words again in black and white your admitting YOUR book is false I agree it's garbage , and sorry I played unfairly using the bible against Christians ..... Next time I will use science of which you know nothing about ... Either
the topic is the bible. the question is: is it real? if i were to say its a bad copy it would be false because its another story. if we use the very real hard copy at motels to say its full of contradictions as well as sexism and unfair justice we are still wrong because we used it. why are you protecting something so bitter sweat?
Because you are in darkness, you cannot even understand the scriptures. You just go to an atheist web site and cut and paste arguments that are very poor. I can't take time to answer all of these - I've got other things to do - but will answer a few quickly for the sake of the readers so they can see how lacking your understanding of God's word is (but HE did say that these things are spiritually discerned - 1 Corinthians 2:12-16 - and you obviously do not have His Spirit), so I am not surprised at your lack of understanding and God will forgive you if you repent.
1) Gen. 1:31: God is pleased with the perfection He created.
Gen. 6:6: God is grieved at what man has become.
2) 2 Chron. 7:12: God dwells in the Temple of Solomon
Acts 7:48: God has come in Christ and now dwells in his people who are now His temple, not PHYSICAL, inanimate temples (1 Cor. 6:20)
3) 1 Tim 6:16: heavenly light; 1 Kings 8:12: speaking of physical darkness or omnipresence
4) God is seen and heard, etc. : one passage is talking about in his unveiled, total fullness - no, no one has seen that on this side of eternity; seen and heard - in limited forms (check "Angel of the Lord" or a veiled manifestation of God's glory to Moses, or the incarnation of God in Jesus - two different things). Heard now in His word, and as a rule, not audibly (for now!)
5) No, God is not tired - but he rests (Hebrew - ceases activity in one aspect of another - e.g. creation). Also look up anthropomorphisms in a good theology book - you'll learn some things.
6) everywhere present, not everywhere present: Genesis uses anthropomorphisms that in no way undermines Genesis own statements that God is everywhere and see and knows all things. In fact, in Genesis 16, Hagar refers to God as the God who sees (all things) and therefore knows all things. Same author, consistent position. When God manifests in a physical form it in no way limits his omnipresence, but is only a local manifestation of it.
7) Knows the heart/ tries to find out: you have again misunderstood. Knowing the heart is different than continually searching it out (viewing it, considering it, judging it). No contradiction there.
8) All powerful/not all powerful. I'll stop here, because it's getting silly (on your part). The scripture is uniform here. God IS all-powerful. THINK: if God enables the Israelites to take one piece of ground in a battle but not another, logically, it means He empowered them to do the former and not the latter. It says nothing of his own power (e.g. that slew 186,000 Assyrians in a night - Isaiah 37; that made the world and universe! Genesis 1). Are you in a public (Govt.) school? Have you taken any classes on logic?
This is enough to see that you misunderstand and mishandle scripture. The honest (God-seeking) person will see that. I will stop here and wish you the best, Dermot. Blessings to all who read.
Now you see my friend you were doing fine until you got very insulting about what my schooling was , why are all you Christians so unchristian honestly I never get that ? And a little jab about logic ( pretty low ) and cutting and pasting you sign off then with blessings ? You are a pretty despicable person by any standards ,as I said to another " Christian " last night I can out quote any one of you's on theology but like the cowardly dogs you's are you whine it's out of context when you get beaten , your statements actually makes me wonder .... Were your parents siblings ... Blessings
Woah, calm down, bro. No needa get so harsh. Nobody insulted you about your schooling, dude. If they did, then they are being stupid. Sorry, sometimes christianity isn't only about a religion, of course, it's not easy to understand that. Anyways, so why are you giving all these statements if you don't want to hear us supporting why these bible stuff are not contradicting. Maybe you are the coward because you can't admit that the bible is right with all the reasonings we gave you?
Lol, jk....(maybe not?...;)haha no hard feelings man.
Oh dear you call yourself a Christian ? And this is the way a Christian is meant to behave ? Interesting maybe it's the usual talk the talk , but don't walk the walk .Thats called hypocrisy isn't it ?
Oh dear you call yourself a Christian ? And this is the way a Christian is meant to behave ? Interesting maybe it's the usual talk the talk , but don't walk the walk .Thats called hypocrisy isn't it ?
Woah, what do you mean "this is the way a Christian meant to behave" and hypocrisy? Well, there are stupid people trying enforce something they believe to you. We try be (should be) more like "introducing a new dish" But it's your decision to taste it, right?
The bible states the lord offers light to those who ask for the same as wisdom i was raised christian and begged for gods light aand never felt comfort... proved the bibles wrong right thereeither tht or gods a liar
You cant say 100% one way or the other. Its like if you were to judge a textbook from the 1950s compared to now. Some things would be true and others would be false, not totally one way or the other. However i posted on this side because the amount of false information completely outnumbers the true information. The true stuff is all cultural, for instance when the bible describes what the agriculture at the time was like as well as some historical figures and places. However when we get into the meat of the bible its almost entirely false. The entire bible opperates on the unproven story of genesis which is completely and utterny unscientific and demonstrably false from day 1 to the story of the ark (which is a rip off of the epic of gilgamesh). From then on everything else is undocumented and filled with scientific impossibilities and absurdities throughout including the life of jesus which includes the reserection which is bullshit to put it lightly.
Basically its a book filled with rules that were implanted into a religion so people would follow them and word would get around. it kept people in line in the most primitive manner and anyone from the 21st century should be ashamed that they actually believe any of it, let alone think its actually a necessary tool for developing one's morality.
Bible is false in my opinion, because I am an Atheist. And Bible teaches me that there are actually people who believe it and count themselves as being clever and doing the right decision by doing so. In my opinion I compare these people to lambs who followed Jesus across the field, but that's just my perspective. - Is Karran true? As well just as the Bible, filled with teachings and philosophies. Incompetent opinion but that's what I think about it. And you may think different. Just because we have different opinions on something majority is agnostic about, makes me wrong? - My advises are: 1) Answer yes. 2) And keep your believes to yourself. - If you are really religious, keep it to yourself in order to achieve something for yourself through it rather than sharing how happy Christianity made you. Different Religions for different people to achieve their own happiness. And I, like nothing else to do, feel happy for the achievers who don't wait for a miracle but make the actions to realize their desires.
so a magic man in the sky was floating around in the abyss of nothing and after about 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 or so on years of contemplating said "Im gonna create a universe today." so he took only a day to create all the infinite stars and galaxies in the cosmos but decided to take 3 days to create a small insignificant speck of a dust ball called earth, then he said let there be light (apparently somehow before he made the sun), and created all the animals of the world (interestingly only naming the ones that were known to people of the region in which this fable started) and then decided to create a creature in his own image, then he made an apple tree for soley the reason to forbid humans to eat from it... yea sounds about right, then after years of screwing up he decided to save his creations from the pit of fire that he himself created and could probably easily just destroy with his godly abilities, he instead decides he will send his only son (even though being god, it seems odd how he could only have one son) to be tortured to death and then ascend to heaven to rule over them........ sounds reasonable enough
To all you christians in this debate, in almost all of your arguments on here you simply say you believe in the bible because of your "faith". Thats not a sound argument, how is it any different from a muslim declaring the Koran is true?
see in religion the bible stated tht u are nothing he is everything heaven is not a place for ur joy but his joy and honestly is just u doing for him none for urself there is no reward in it and ur god threatens u in the bible with an inferno if he honestly wanted us to not think of ourselves then why again wuld he say to love ourselves in this text by itself why wuld god have created us with need and want wen we were built only for his pleasure plz thnk
Instead of taking the rout in which i express i'm right through no evidence, i'll take another. Both sides belief and dis belief have no true evidence once thinking about it. Rather than proving what is right and what is wrong, we should see if we would follow a god if hypothetically correctly spoken. The story of job indicates a god in which plays with the life of an innocent by standard. Ezequil describes to the critique of understandably of aliens. I feel like whether it is true or not is irrelevant. If god is an almighty god he will understand you if you pursue him through truth. I myself believe in god but not religion.
If it's not a religion and if it does in fact explain everything to a rationale stand point, clarify. What is the explanation it gives? How does a man made creation exemplify an almighty god through our mere words. His "greatness," shouldn't be able to be depicted through mortal words.
We can't describe his greatness enough. He's too great, that no works or nothing we say can fully please Him. But, as believers, he accepts out worship.
how is your claim any more credible than the claim of a muslim that the Koran is the only 1 true way to get to heaven? any evidence to show that your claim is superior to all other different religious claims?
It was written by disciples who walked with God, and the point isn't to turn people into zombies. The point is to lead people to Christ and purify them in him, so that they may have eternal life in heaven with Jesus. It seems like God's view changes offend, but he knew it was coming when he made the world. He knew Adam and Eve would be tempted by Satan, and he knew the world would have sin. And when it says things like 'Jesus did not go into the temple' that is only to let you know he wasn't still there, or it was not the will of the Father for him to be there then. He doesn't change his mind. He is perfect in character and decisions.
Because why talk about something if you have no knowledge of it , it is full of contradictions from start to finish yet you choose to believe it ? And your wrong he changes his mind all the time so you are telling lies about your God ,why don't you read all the contradictions at the end of this debate and then tell me he does not change his mind your wrong .... Again
Because why talk about something if you have no knowledge of it , it is full of contradictions from start to finish yet you choose to believe it ? And your wrong he changes his mind all the time so you are telling lies about your God ,why don't you read all the contradictions at the end of this debate and then tell me he does not change his mind your wrong .... Again
He doesn't change his mind, he knows what is going to happen and he knows how he is going to respond. And if he is only my God and you don't believe in him why are you arguing about him?
Because the question asked is the bible false which it is , I have given you 15 examples of him changing his mind in your bible, so you are saying he is lying ? He does change his mind ? So in the examples I gave where he changed his mind he is lying ? ... Your words not mine you said " he doesn't change his mind " and yet he does in the bible so he is a liar according to you ?
He doesn't change his mind , he is not a liar so here you are your own bible again which proves you are lying as well as your God at least be honest ....
"God dwells in light," is not literal as in "God dwells in the light of a lamp/the Sun." That's talking about how He cannot sin. "God dwells in darkness," well, if you read the context of the passage, you see the darkness WAS literal. He was talking about a thick smoke.
Oh right so you interpret the bible to suit you , tell me how come you were put here to explain the bible for everyone else ? Why did God not say what he meant ? And you do know you are doing what God forbids your changing his words which he says are his alone
No I don't you idiot you don't even know what interpret means ? You see if you read correctly I changed nothing but your fellow Christians did even the wording , try and pay attention . It's the word of your God from your book I have not changed one bit of it , you bible thumpers keep denying what your own God said your basically saying your God is a liar I agree , keep the cookie for your God he is due to turn up someday..... You must wonder to yourself ,if at birth your brain had more oxygen how much better your life would be ?... Game .. Set ... Match........ Want a cookie ?
Well your right about one thing. God is coming again and when he does everyone who doesn't believe in him are going to hell. And everyone that has faith in him shall be with him forever.
Ok it must be true because you and your invisible God said so , good luck with that one you can sit with your "loving" God forever ...... What fun makes me nearly wish I was a christian
Oh now that's not very Christian name calling what would God think ? Shame on you I'm meant to be the bad guy but hey I can teach by example .....I wish you in return long life and happiness to you and yours my friend....
Now back to the subject you do know what it says about changing Gods word or do you ? Your in trouble “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.
2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB) ....... You do know what that means don't you......
I already gave you 15 which you never answered because you just keep lying about your own book... Heres a couple and remember Gods word not yours
. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/ ...... So you going to tell more lies now and claim your the only one who knows what they mean ..... If this was a boxing match the referee would stop it .....
What are your proofs that the BIBLE is written by demons? The Bible itself spoke against demons and that one day God will destroy ALL of them because they are the cause why people didn't believe GOD.
Haha, wrong information! Whether, we believe it's fake or not, being copied million times over and over doesn't mean it's fake. Historians, believers or not, all say 99% of the bible is copied exactly the same. Dude, they even have some of the original scriptures. I'm just saying, think of the possibility ;).
the idea of it is very real. but the actuality is not. some guy in heaven. the concept is just child like. if i tell every one the sun revolves around the world ppl would believe me. and they would past that IDEA down in history. until someone questions it. i think that happened before.
religion is not much more then an over glorification of foolish people trying to justify there wrongs.
i repeat.
the idea is true but the reality of it is not.
every one says they all want to go to heaven but look at who is filling that space. justified rapists and god killing thugs. how is something so openly wrong, right??
historians are told a story that was given to them.
the jewish history came before the christian one and it is copied form it (the large points at least) and yet the Christians are automatically right?
Jesus like i said before was not much more then a copy of horus the Egyptian god. so if its a copy of another religion (two and maybe more) how is it real?
whats the defining moment in history that makes your story better then a man with a chicken head any better?
i ask anyone who is reading this.
if you can not remove yourself from the religious text, and find a way to disprove your own religion, what good are you doing to your family?
make the argument or morals and guidance
sure you have SOME morals like not to steal and to treat people the way you want to be treated.
BUT then it goes and says you can kill millions for they are in your land and its a god given right to have it (on both sides). raping some cute girl you had a crush on just so you can marry her. giving money to a lazy person. who does nothing but sit on his or her ass saying that all that is good and that you should pay them to tell you a story and have them live by it. this system prompts lazy people. they think to solve one of the worlds biggest problems you would have to kill off half of the population so they can be happy.
is that really something you want your family to live by?
i think at the time when we could not communicate with other people when it was just the few people. it was god but not now.
Based on what can you tell the people the sun revolves around the world and they'll believe it?
They don't justify their wrongs but admit they are wrong and sinful.
Jesus existed, whether you believe He resurrected or not, or He is Son of God. All religious leaders know that, even the prophet Muhammad.
Christianity came from the Jewish history, there is nothing wrong with that. We didn't say we are automatically right, that's why we are trying to prove it to you that it's right, right? If we think we are automatically right, we wouldn't waste time writing this argument.
We did not say our "story" is better, we're just trying to prove that it's true.
"In 1632 Galileo angered the Pope when he published a book in which he openly stated that the Earth was moving around the Sun. He was put on trial by the Inquisition in Rome, where he was found suspect of heresy, and forced to say that all of his findings were wrong. He was first imprisoned, and later confined to his house near Florence."
^
to be honest i dont get what your point is. you say its a true thing but yet its plagiarized from other historical leaders and events. if i submitted a paper to my professor it would be expelled for plagiarizing someone else's work and i would loss all credibility. YET the bible is totally ok.
if you want to make the argument that he was real or so grate (Jesus) then find something from another side of the world saying the same-thing about the SAME person.
it just bugs me that people want Religion to be real. to me its just a well played out lie.
i was not always an atheist. in fact i was a very religious person on my way to being a priest. but there was just to much that could not add up so i left.
the bible as a book is real. however as a historical reference, not at all. in jewish history one of the main and strongest historical points is that when they we given the Torah there was over 200,000 people witnessing it. conveniently they were all jews. at that time it was said that the whole world was listening and all animals we listening and people. yet NO one (other then them) can record such an event.
the idea of monotheism is a nice one but as long as it stays there.
the same goes for the people who want multi gods. imposing a belief on someone is wrong.
yet the Christians did it the jews did it and even the islam, they are doing it. its not right to let these beliefs become something to fight over. once you do, it losses credibility.
why would it be so hard to except that GOD was made up and live a life worrying about the now and not some pathetic after life?
Sorry, for misunderstanding your first point. (Right Galileo;;..) For the Pope during that century, he had a role of politics also people stilled believed that bible is an absolute book, like all-in-one textbook; while the bible said nothing about the Earth being round or not or the Sun being center of the earth. Those were all presumption of the people. Still anyone would understand that the time they were in was a time when discoveries had to match the biblical texts.
We are arguing the bible is true or not because, the topic is what we are suppose to argue about.
It's not plagiarism. The bible is translated from the original scriptures. It's like a famous book copied officially (of course photocopied) for many people too read, no duh. If published copies are plagiarism, then the books on the shelves in your house are all plagiarized.
I just correcting you that Jesus is real in this earth not just a myth in a book, nothing more, and you stated first. We can argue in another place about Jesus is real or not, if YOU want.
People don't always want religion to be real. Because people see or feel, they know it's real so they follow.
Of course the book is real. It's written thousands of years before, then it's a historical reference. (Noah's ark is real, there are even documentaries for that, very interesting!--I just wanted to tell you that, it's pretty cool.) The Torah is literally some part of the Old Testament in the bible, if you didn't know that. (P.S. Not that I'm saying the Torah was copied from the bible)
Millions of people witnessed it as they are included in the book as well, Torah or bible.
It's wrong to impose one's belief to another. I even agree with that because to believe it is your choice. Not everyone is like that, we try to (should be) persuade that what we believe is right. It's not like "if you don't believe it, you will be cursed" (if anyone does that they are STUPID, because it's NOT true). I think fighting over who's right/wrong is not wrong, bringing more solid credibility, giving more ideas to research about. If it takes to physical violence, then that's a whole different level we are talking about, more like religious intolerance.
It's so hard to except that God is a made-up and all those spiritual things are fake because we've, I HAVE, seen and felt things that are not in this worldly dimension. I'm not very radical, I should be. Calling me a Jesus-Freak will be giving me too much credit but it would be an honor.
Hey there, was away for quite a long time. Hm, okay. But first of all, would you believe me if I told you? I think not. If you insist, I shall. So I have once seen an old man walk who sat on a wheel chair for more than a year; oh and (this is really weird) a woman's lost tooth grow to a gold tooth. No kidding.
So are you going to accuse me of false testifying or hallucination, then you shouldn't have asked if you were going to. Hm...maybe I shouldn't have stated that, more useless disputing. Ugh sorry. Anything else I should clarify or dispute about?
TL;DR: Solomonsston thinks that Christianity was copied.
It's funny, though. If you actually read these stories, instead of going off of what other people say, you'd understand that there are only small similarities, and these similarities are so small and have to be distorted so much to even look like Christianity. Or... Maybe you wouldn't understand. I don;'t think you want to understand. You want to disprove everything that a Christian would say. But you can't. So, you'll make up some inconsistent phrase.
Your really not very good on the bible are you Joel ? You constantly misquote , deliberately lie , and change the word which I have showed you is a sin which will earn you hellfire , remember .... Change not one iota .. His words , you have never read the bible this I know , I am an expert in the bible and can quote chapter and verse most atheists can because we destroy you's with your own garbage . And this final weak argument about the trinity again you don't know what your talking about , why not research your bible first ?...... I see elsewhere on site you say you don't believe all the bible , well now there's a special place for you according to God , he say's the whole of the word has to be accepted , but maybe Im taking that out of context ...
The reason you think your "contradictions" are "contradictions" is because your taking some things literally, when they shouldn't be, and somethings not literally, when they should be. How do I distinguish literal speech from speech that isn't literal? I READ THE CONTEXT. BUT YOU DON'T.
Sorry Joel I apologise I didn't realise I was talking to someone with your poor educational skills , you seem to find reading especially difficult and I'm sorry I used big words , you seem to know what parts to take literally or not now that's a special gift not even God has but again you know better than God ... Don't you ....,
No I don't. You STILL stubbornly won't read the context, because your afraid of being convicted and then questioning, "What if Joel is true?" WHICH HE IS. I know nothing compared to God. I probably know more big words than you do, btw. But who gives a crumpet, this debate isn't about vocabulary so just stop trying to SIDETRACK.
Ha Ha say's the king of the side track you are typical of most Christians when you get beaten by your own book you cry like a baby you are a pretty cowardly lot you bully people with your horrible book , but when they beat you .... Easily with your book you cower like whipped dogs ... That's how your lot operate work on the weak minded otherwise the con can't work......and Joel on the big words don't go there you will get beat.... Again....finally I want to thank you personally for taking this special time to ....., humiliate your self in public .....
I honestly don't know how old Joel is maybe I'm a little harsh but how many different ways does he have to be shown , I tried niceness and it didn't work , so sometimes you just have to tell some harsh truths ....
Once, again, your sidetracking. You go off topic, and don't look at the CONTEXT of the passages. -_- wow.
Alright, well, if you've anything else to say, say it now, because I think I'm done with this debate. I can't change your heart. I've witnessed, and so now I'm going to leave the heart-changing to the Lord.
No I'm through with you it's amazing God said his book was his word and nothing could be added or taken away , but yet Joel knows God was talking out of context , if there is A God well wow ! He's reserving a special seat for you in hell and hey don't take my word for it check it out yourself ..... But maybe that's out of context too , you better hope it is ....
Sorry, I just had to say something about this. Haha. I think you should watch your grammar (commas, article adjectives, and so on) before saying something about education, and, you know stuff like those. :D (seriously, I'm helping you)
Ha Ha you Americans are really hung up on your grammar , punctuation , etc! Ok I don't really care , more important stuff in life .Incidentally a whole page of text , with missing letters words, commas ,full stops was shown to a class of 7 year olds in a test here in Ireland , 98 per cent of the kids fully understood it , so maybe it says more about your level of comprehension.
Is this a debate or a bashing i agree bible is false but n the same pretense a debate is not meant to put someone down but to prove ur ideas with facts
see in this argument its the basis of human need of understanding what they know they will never understand and people who accept that they are not all knowing the bible has good morals even is a good read ive read it three times myself but in that instance i do not agree that it is the truth i apologize if i cause any offense cuz its not meant but there are many contradictions in the begining of the bible it says that the devil was thrown to earth before man as a serpant in revelations it says he came in the begging as a woman gave birth as a dragon it also mentions in the bible that to kill in any form is one of the greatest sins yet god praises david for murdering goliath not only killing him but severing his head it says that a witch whom stands on holy ground will burn and i am wiccan and have stood on holy ground many times the need to clutch to a religion is because we are a curiouse conceited people belivin that we can find anything in truth but honestly there are some things we will never truly know such as how we got here which is not ohnestly needed to be known
Yes, it is true that murdering/killing is the greatest sin.
In the story of David killing Goliath, David didn't do sin towards God on that because God use David to kill the giant because this giant is defying God. God is all powerful and just and righteous and perfect, and has his right to do anything he wished to do to those evil person like Goliath. David was only his servant, used by God to help and protect his people from enemies.
In speaking of Revelation if you trully meditate GOD's WORD you will trully understand. And by the way the words that were in the REVELATION is not literal in meaning.
Do you know Revelation has many words/phrases that were FIGURATIVE SPEECH.
and when Satan fell into the darkness his light went out. Darkness overcame him. Sin is the the fruit from a seed born in darkness.
Its bitter to find yourself on the wrong side of the only definate choice. It feels like a stacked deck that was dealt. But you have
a choice to be on the other side, you just have to be willing to leave darkness behind. .
It's like leaping and counting the cost, and if the cost is to high its because the idols and whatever we love clouds our vision, but don't blame God He orchestrated this whole thing to share all with you, but darkness
even in siminary classes they tell u things not to teach in church because they cause contraversy the cannons were taken out because poeple did not agree with them in honesty if the bible were true it wuld have been made correctly the first time and wuld not need changes such as the woman prophet or lilith and such were taken from it
Those persons you say who wouldn't like those things that are in the BIBLE to be taught in churches.... they are the ones who were afraid that the BIBLE will correct them. And also when they taught those words to those people they will be hurt and get angry. But the truth is the BIBLE is for reproof and for correction to those people who are living in sin and were under SATAN. If trully they cared for their fellows they choose to hurt them with truth rather saying them only "good things" that are pleasing to their ears that will tolerate their sin and sin will trully lead them to destruction.
You know what if you have a friend who does wrong things you really like to correct your friend because you know he's gotten into a big trouble. You would do things and explain to him about the situation and lead your friend to the right path. But there are times your friend got angry to what you have said, but later on he'll realize that he's wrong.
So it's like the Bible. Because God wants us to correct our doings he use HIS WORD-the BIBLE. We'll there are things the Bible says are hurtful to our ears but we must accept that because we are all sinners, we sometimes make and decided things not in the right manner. And because God loves each one of us and doesn't want us to have ruined lives.
In speaking of people didn't want to agree with the Bible. People didn't want to agree with the Bible because they didn't want to leave his sins. And sin is tempting, at first it looks good but at the end it destroys every thing.
Well, I think that the religions that stay to the texts are not cults. However, the Jews probably view us(Christians) as a cult, we believe the Messiah has come. However, we view Mormonism, Christadelphanism, Westboro Baptist Church, etc. as cults.
Let's look at the definition of translation really quick.
"A written or spoken rendering of the meaning of a word, speech, book, or other text, in another language." Doesn't sound much like your "change," now does it?
Mormons believe pretty much that God's an alien and all of the Bible is false.
WBS believes that we are the ones who can do the judging, instead of God.
Also, in response to your other posts, I've been researching a bunch about evolution and God. I've come to the conclusion that creationism makes more sense than theistic evolution. I mean, evolution's just based on one man's theory. Why should I be a follower of man as opposed to God? answersingenesis.com has a lot of articles that have led me to this conclusion.
Doesn't sound much like your "change," now does it?
Endeavoring to learn a new language might give you a better perspective on the ways that a translation is an imperfect representation of, and is therefore a change from, the original. Certain words, especially those with double meanings, are extremely difficult to translate - sometimes a word is used in the original text because of its multiple meanings (puns, etc.) which cannot be conveyed via a translation into the new language. Additionally, there are idioms and other cultural uses of language that the translators, separated by culture, time, etc., would not be able to precisely translate in a way that articulates the full meaning of the original.
Mormons believe pretty much that God's an alien and all of the Bible is false.
That is incorrect - Mormons believe in both the old and new testaments.
WBS believes that we are the ones who can do the judging, instead of God
Does belief in creationism have the predictive success that evolution does?
answersingenesis.com has a lot of articles that have led me to this conclusion.
Most of the claims by answersingenesis and others have a counter here - if you don't find an adequate response for any claim that you believe is persuasive, you should post it here.
"A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object."
What part of that definition for cult excludes what you believe in?
"A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister."
How big is 'relatively small'? There are about 15 million Mormons - is that small? What number (x) do you believe represents the threshold where x number of believers makes a cult, but x+1 number of believers makes the word of God?
Anyone who thinks the Bible is true clearly isn't intelligent enough to be on this site. Of course it's not true. And most of it is outrageous and homophobic and incestous.
You think illogically. If you were intelligent, you would understand the science behind why people shouldn't be homosexual, and understand how a God would feel about someone being homosexual. I don't think He'd like it. He creates a woman for Man, and Man wants a guy? I don't think that'd go over very well.
So, how would it be outrageous that a God who has ultimate power to do anything? God's definition would be that He can do anything. Also, about your incestuous comment. When the population is the size as it was then, it is semi-hard to avoid incest.
So, now you have the burden of proof: Why is it of course that the Bible is not true?
Also, I want to point out that I'm not a homophobe. I just don't think that God would like homosexuality.
Also want to point out that right now, if anyone has sex, it is technically incest. It is impossible that the human race came from more than two of the same species. So, we are all descendants of those two. We're all related.
It is impossible that the human race came from more than two of the same species.
With evolution it could at least be our extended cousins rather than mandatorily having sex with our sisters as Cain and Seth must have done. (Noah's family would be required to have sex with either their siblings or their 1st cousins.)
Note that it is not necessarily "two of the same species", it would generally be one individual that had a gene mutation and that individual could have had multiple sex partners. Ah, the good old days...
Also, it would not be impossible for environmental factors to result in similar germline mutations among multiple individuals of a species.
Well, obviously God didn't give man the animals in that way. It says right there: A suitable helper. Not sex partner. Also, later on in Leviticus, it says the punishments for certain sins. Whoever I disputed earlier about homosexuality and incest said that God was okay with incest. You say that God was okay with bestiality. Both are sins, according to Leviticus. I believe these rules are also described somewhere else.
Examples, please? From what I have seen, it does not happen that often. And if it does, maybe there is a mutated gene that causes this. However, just because a gene can cause more attraction to the opposite sex does not mean that a being is necessarily born homosexual.
Probably when I saw my parents together as a couple. In fact, homosexuals never even existed in my head until I learnt that my step-grandfather was indeed not living with a man just because they were friends. So, I must have been born with the gene that gives me more attraction to females.
There is more than just a genetic component, but I think we are agreeing that for most people the sex to which they are attracted to is not a conscious choice, correct?
"To turn the approach on its head: No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue."
Okay, yeah I researched and found that you are right. However, like I said, there is no gene which can alter that completely. It would only make an individual more attracted to the same gender. Or maybe it doesn't. Maybe the animals are just confused. They are just animals, right? Not sentient.
Dolphins are somewhat sapient. They have been shown to name each other, and they respond to their names, even when they are called by a dolphin they are unfamiliar with.
Yet? I am pretty sure that this would be detrimental to a dolphin, and not as helpful as it would seem. I don't think natural selection would allow for this. However, synthetic selection would.
Well, the theory of natural selection kinda says that this would take a loooong time. So, if humanity's still around, I guess we would. However, the dolphins could become hostile. We wouldn't be able to communicate, at least at first, as our vocal systems are entirely different. Also, if they evolved more, it would be adapting to their environment. So, they'd probably not be up on land...
Well, the theory of natural selection kinda says that this would take a loooong time. So, if humanity's still around, I guess we would.
Well, dolphins are almost fully sapient at this point, considering they have a primitive language.
However, the dolphins could become hostile.
If you took a baby caveman and raised him as a normal kid, your wouldn't notice the slightest difference aside from more body hair. Same for dolphins, in fact, I think we should help them so they don't make all the mistakes we did.
Also, if they evolved more, it would be adapting to their environment.
Humans also evolved to adapt to their environment while developing sentience, which actually takes a surprisingly short amount if time. With help, it could take about a century.
The bible is about 97% myth using historical history as its backdrop. The flood, god killing the entire world, the Egyptians and the plagues and the entire list goes on. If a man named Jesus went to any Church today and kicked out or harassed the bingo game players or carnival goers, he would be branded as a terrorist and confined to prison for 20 years.If you tell a Christian that Jesus swallowed the whale, they would believe that too!
hevan and hell are both made for "gods" pleasure it says in heaven there will not be things for man to pleasure us tht we must be selfless because were there to do nothing but praise o wat an amazing reward right well anyways and then hell is where he sends all the creations he didnt like to be cursed tormented and pained because most of them had either too much understanding or not enough for his liking i dont believe in the bible but tht god sounds messed up and very conceited i mean my child will never be punished for ignorance :) especially not eternally which was a lie as well because in revelations it says after the devil rules for a thousand years and heaven rules for a thousand years god will renew the world and start things over again giving all souls another chance so theres another contradiction for all u bible lovers
First: I know this is kinda rude, but could you please use better grammar?
Second: God created Man. Satan, one of God's angels, did not like this and decided to go against God and tempt Man. So, God created a place for Satan to reside, as God cannot be around unholiness(described in many books, especially when the Israelites were with God while wandering). Now, Satan resides in Hell now. And He gets the unholy souls when they die. Why? Because God cannot be with them. Not because God is conceited and punishes ignorance. In fact, I don't know what happens to ignorant people who have never heard the Gospel.
Now, about your "contradiction": I think what happens there is that after God renews the Earth, Satan lost control of the world. This means that there is no longer sin, and only holiness. Maybe he still has control over Hell, but nothing else. In that case it is eternal. carm.org has a good article on this, as well as many of the other "contradictions" that you guys have thought to exist.
Dudes Bible is freaking false. Many of the Bibles stories comes from Egyptian and Greek Mythology. Then the Messiah story is the Same story as Horus and Hercules. To top it off the main Hero and Villains doesn't have specific names. The God is called God. Doesn't even have a name. That's the same thing as a 7 year old making a superhero called "Hero". Then their devil is called devil. Same thing as a Villain called Villain. Also if God is so good, why does he hates Gays. The Bible was written by a Homophobe. It says that a man Being gay is a sin, but why doesn't it say anything about lesbians. If god hates Homosexuality, why did he make bonobos who are are naturally and born bisexual.
If you actually researched, as I have, you would realize that the stories in the Bible actually DO NOT come from a bunch of other religions. (Hercules? Really? Research a little.) Besides, calling a god God is actually more powerful than another name. It implies that this is the real God.
You must not have read any of the New Testament. In the Old Testament, God defines sin and the punishment for sin. All sin is the same to Him. Even though He hates sin, He hates no man. In fact, the Devil probably hates gays. Not God. God gave His Son so that the people who have sinned could be with Him in Heaven, and not be punished for their sins.
In the Bible, God says that if we pray in Jesus's name, our prayer shall come true without any restrictions whatsoever. Yet, some prayers never even come true.
Even though it is the most famous book, it's also the most inaccurate. All the stories sounds like it came from a child's imagination. Science disproves all the Bullshit that the bible feeds into the minds.
I know for sure the bible is written by normal people, I'm not going to force anyone to believe it, but I don't believe in the whole idea of christianity- just because it seems ridiculous to me. I don't think the people who do are christians are stupid, no, most of the time they are very loving people (as long as they leave others alone in their beliefs).
Most of the things in the bible seem stupid to me and that's the main reason.
Noah's Ark, is an impossibility. First off there were supposedly 7 pairs of clean and 2 pairs of unclean animals on the ark. Ask a ship builder, giving them the dimensions stated for the ark in the bible and they would tell you that with all those animals on board, the ship would have capsized. There was NO possible way to fit all those animals on the ark.
Secondly talk to a vet or a person in animal husbandry. The fumes alone from all the urine would have killed Noah and his family. Ammonia is one of the most deadly, toxic fumes known to man. The amount of the ammonia fumes alone would have killed the family.
Then you have the manure. That the fumes from this would have blown up the ship. See there was NO electricity on the supposed ark, they would have had to use torches, open flame to light their way. Think of Timothy McVeigh and what happened in Oklahoma? That was in effect a manure bomb, and the same kind of explosion that happened there would have happened on that ark.
Next you have the feeding of all these animals to overcome. There was no Walmart, there was no Blue service. How would you feed all these animals for the supposed 40 days and nights it rained, let alone all that time they waited for the waters to recede? Also logically, how do you keep the animals from eating each other?
Now you also have the problem of the dove returning with the olive branch. The world was supposedly flooded out. The plants would have been completely crushed under the weight of all that water. It would have also been salt water, which would have killed off all plants on the dry earth, because these plants are not designed to survive in such a salty way. So how the heck could the dove bring back an olive branch?
The Bible contains SOME things which are true (indeed there is a blend of history and culture and identities of people who actually lived). And there are good lessons in many of the parables of the Bible. But it is neither absolute in its truth or direct from the mouth of a God:
1) It has many authors, all human. Some probably inauthentic (by ghost writers, or teams of believers)
2) It demonstrates the legal, ethical, and cultural biases from the times of those authors. Not all those past practices or beliefs are relevant to modern society.
3) It has many versions, from different translations to books included or dropped depending on the branch of religion referencing it.
4) None of the New Testament was directly written or narrated by Jesus Christ himself. I'll expand more on this below.
5) All the miracles are heresay.
6) The claims of virgin birth and rising from the dead are by eyewitnesses within the religion who had vested interests in promoting such claims.
Going back to #4 - The New Testament scriptures were not written the moment after Christ died. They were spread over many years, allegedly by his apostles though we can't really prove all were, and they have a tone of believe or you'll be sorry because both those apostles and the fledgling church were being persecuted to stamp them out. And when you consider that even in a highly literate society like ours today the ability of people to directly recall exactly what was said in a conversation years ago is bogus at best. If 10 years from now both the pro and con writers on this debate were asked to recall from memory exactly what had been written we would all have dramatically different accounts of the discussion, of what actually was said, and what the take away message was. Yet, when a jailed apostle writes such an account years after Christ's death the literalists take every word as verbatim exactly what was said and happened and are ready to shape their entire modern existence around as little as one sentence from that apostle. That's incredibly naive.
Did you get that idea from a religion, or did you make it up? If you made it up, then it could be false. If you got it from a religion, then how do you know the religion is true? It could be false!
Everything people learn in school everyday could be false! so what's the point of sending children to a place 5 days a week where they could just being fed a pack of lies? What if it's all made up? You have to Believe!
Intangible. Do you have a wife? If no, then let's just say you do. Then your basically saying that your wife, that you love and care for, could be fake. Your own life could be fake. That's just totally preposterous!
Are you disputing your fear, or your truth? The truth even if scary remains as the truth. Rather than stating hypothetical fears, state what makes it the truth.
If you got it from a religion, then how do you know the religion is true? It could be false
THANK YOU. Right from the horse's mouth too. Ask yourself this same question buddy and suddenly us unbelievers (who still somewho believe) wont look so strange and deluded
I know A TON of stories where people have tried everything: money, drugs, girls, everything in the "fast life." Eventually, that person's life fell apart, and the 'said' person of story even tried going to different churches: catholic, greek orthodox, all that stuff. BUT none of it made his life right and the 'said' person still felt hopeless. BUT what did they eventually turn to? GOD!! CHRISTIANITY!! I haven't heard even ONE story where someone's life was hopeless, and they turned to, say, Catholicism and they were happy again!
The last refuge of a lunatic is always religion that's why druggies , alcoholics , gamblers turn to God, no and of course no one can be happy unless it's your brand of Christianity , so you never heard of someone turning to Catholicism and being happy and of course you have asked loads and they all told you how unhappy they were ? Ok .... And you know the way you keep changing Gods words and saying it's not all literal I think God disagree's but hey Joel is better than God
People have turned to Catholicism and where "happy" for a period of time. Then they fall apart again.
There's no other way to say this so: Your blinded by your sin, Dermot. You can't correctly interpret the Bible. You keep thinking things are "contradictions" whereas if you knew God, and knew the Bible you would see, that they aren't contradictions.
I've lied, which makes me a liar. So, yes, I am a lyer. But God put my sin on Jesus when He died so I wouldn't have to go to Hell. Thank God for that. :D
Again you are totally wrong I am giving you chapter verse of your own book you cannot change his words he said that.... Regards talking about the Catholic Church why are you telling lies , I live in catholic Ireland where many Catholics claim to be happy , so are you the only one who gets to be happy because your saved , oh dear the sin of vanity to add to your list Joel
I have a good example of a person who is like that. Mr. Alberto Rivera. please click this link you'll be inspired of his life.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Rivera