Debate Info

Faith by Grace Faith by Works
Debate Score:47
Total Votes:49
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Argument Ratio

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 Faith by Grace (20)
 Faith by Works (19)

Debate Creator

Hvactech123(5) pic


Do you go to Heaven by doing good works or do you go to heaven through Gods grace?

Faith by Grace

Side Score: 26

Faith by Works

Side Score: 21

God's grace. Your "good works" can never make your bad works disappear. Imagine if a prosecutor in the end showed full coverage of every bad thought and bad thing you ever did. What would be your comeback? Look at my good works?

If a man slaughtered Christians by the thousands (Paul), what would be his excuse to God? Look at my good works?

The thief on the cross admitted he was a horrible person. What was his excuse? His good works?

The adultering woman was described by Christ as "Her sins are many", and yet she was forgiven. Was it her good works?

Good works are like filthy rags a wise man once said...

Side: Faith by Grace
1 point

What would be your comeback? Look at my good works?

Nothing, really. If someone can read my thoughts so well, a comeback is redundant.

If a man slaughtered Christians by the thousands (Paul), what would be his excuse to God? Look at my good works?

If that prosecutor is God himself, then I doubt excuses would matter much, for he must already know of the reasons and good things (according to the Christian fantasies).

Side: Faith by Grace

"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.

I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'

"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."

Side: Faith by Grace

Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

John 9:41

Side: Faith by Grace
1 point

"claim that you can see "

well, if questioning your so called god is a "sin", then I'd rather call the character a bully.

Side: Faith by Works
1 point

It logically really doesn't matter what you randomly call it. To oppose an un-opposable force is lacking in common sense and survival instincts. You'd run from an angry bear but shake your fist at someone much stronger than the bear. Darwin must have been wrong... or... maybe he was right. response

Nevertheless, if God is the strongest force and is willing to die for you for any reason, I think I'd take it. God could have been way worse than that.

Side: Faith by Grace

phesians 2:8-9New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Side: Faith by Grace

You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. Galatians 5:4

Side: Faith by Grace

But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

Side: Faith by Grace

The point. Self righteousness is the quickest and easiest path to piss God off in the Bible. Admitting your filth and your imperfection is the quickest way to God's grace and eternal life. Now look at unbelivers and what they say in real life. They say things like "I do good things". "I donate to the poor. I work at soup kitchens."

Side: Faith by Grace
1 point

truly god's grace is the deciding factor. you can't erase the bad deeds you've done no matter how good you do later on. so when the moment of judgment does arrive, it'd be god who decides if, even after all the things you've done, good and bad both included, whether you've changed. it's with his decision that you are allowed to go to heaven not with your good to bad ratios.

Side: Faith by Grace

If it is by works, then it was unfair for the criminal(you know the works of a criminal right?) beside jesus on the cross to have gained a pass to paradise.

That is why some people get it twisted.They claim they served God for 30years and then became A.....t.

Because they thought it was their right from a hard work labouring.

I still wonder how they know; a bad worker is always looking for an excuse.... to quit

Side: Faith by Grace
0 points

Obviously, one goes to Heaven exclusively through God's grace alone, as it clearly states in the Bible.

And, of course, faith without good works is dead, as it says in the Bible.

The Bible seems to give both answers on this issue, as it does on a lot of other ones as well. And when a book gives two mutually exclusive answers to a question at once, you tend to begin to lose your trust in it.

Side: Faith by Grace
1 point

And begin to trust in yourself and worship your own intellect, which is the greatest sin of all because the human heart isn't trustworthy in the first place. It's Satan's sin. it's the tree of death. The tree of "knowledge". No one said it was FULLY correct or good knowledge. The forbidden fruit was worship of self. Worship of flawed and evil self intellectualism, which isn't real intellectualism at all, but a deception.

If you have faith, you will have works, but the works will not save you. The works are simply a manifestation of having faith. But works do not equal faith. This is the devil twisting conceptualizations. The enemy declares "If you do not work you are not saved", but that's not what God said. What God said was "faith without works is dead", meaning? Faith will get works out of it. Satan twisted this to "work to say you have faith". Clever, but wrong. He's always clever. He's always close to the truth. He's always one lie... away...from the truth.

Side: Faith by Works
stswebb(73) Disputed
1 point

Odd how in so many systems of religion and mythology the desire for knowledge and for independent thought is punished, huh? Hey, it's almost as if these things just might have been ultimately formulated and promulgated by humans who wanted to keep the people ignorant. But then again, this would be quite a sacrilegious thing indeed to imply, so I won't.

And stop trying to blame people who disagree with you on Satan. This is a serious debating website.

Side: Faith by Grace
2 points

A heaven achieved despite not being a good person is not a heaven worth achieving.

Also the verses quoted which Evangelicals insist means you just need to believe in God's grace depend on:

1) Taking the Bible literally word for word. I still believe the Bible has many authors, over long spans of time, who were human and were influenced by their cultures and by life events like imprisonment, and who had a common goal of promoting their brand of religion. The Bible is not literally the word of God. And

2) Elevating those particular verses as more important than all the other references in the Bible to doing good deeds and turning the other cheek, etc.

Side: Faith by Works
1 point

Hello h:

Christians think they get there by ASKING.. Jews think they get there by ACTING..


Side: Faith by Works
1 point

Jesus also condemned the Jewish way of thinking and labeled the Pharisees and Saducees as full blown hypocrites.

If "acting" gets you there, then "bad acting" would not get anyone there.

Side: Faith by Grace