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Satanism vs Christianity
Yes im bored.
Im talking about REAL satanism not angsty teen cut yourself in rebellion to got shit. As in, LaVeyan or Theistic. The philosophy behind it. Get some background before debating please.
Very true but Satanism doesn't say never help others at all. It preaches putting yourself and your priorities above others. If your priorities are taken care of and youre willing to help others then that is encouraged because another part is the advancement of humanity and we ARE all I'm it together.
I cant help but notice you shy away from science debate to talk moron circles in the peanut gallery ....satan is a wieney and he promotes what is easy ...if you have a world full of self serving last immoral pukes how do you advance....have you ever been in combat ...no id say you have not ...id say your a weak little person who hides behind popular waves of vassel intellect ...you cant serve yourself first and others later ....a chief eats last not most the reason this world is falling apart is weak people like you eating first ....back when people minded the flock and not the sheppard we didn't have this problem ....or maybe we have had this problem all along because evil keeps pooping its head out of the toilet ....piss on morning star and piss on nimrod if you know morning star and not nimrod your not even a real Satanist ...again a shallow fake .....I flat out call them both weak GOD made them to serve MAN NOT man to serve them ...and serve me he will .....by the name of GOD almighty he is my footstool and all who follow him.....put that in your pipe and smoke it .....
im sorry I was closing a deal and feeling tense I should not have spoken that way im sorry ..to everyone on here I have allowed my mouth to run wild on here on a couple of these .....truth is still truth though .....but its not my place to be mean again im sorry
A Christian SAYS they care, but the very fact that ANY Christian can call him or herself "true" and other Christians "false" is proof enough that you don't really care. It is just words.
Sweetie, it is true that anyone CAN SAY anything, and that just proves my point. Actions speak louder than "just" words. My saying "true christian" means one who practices what they preach so to speak. Not "just" words, but by example in their everyday life. I do care about everyone. I may not agree with everyones views or beliefs, but I respect everyones right to their own. I may hate certain acts people commit, but I dont hate the person. There are so many things I have experienced in my life that has made me a true believer, beyond just what I was taught as a child. Things that simply defy explanation, or logic, or science. Im a pretty stubborn strong willed woman, lol...it takes a lot to convince me of something. And all I can say is that I know there is a God, simply just because I know. There is no other way to explain. Sometimes you just know because you know.
No sweetie, Im tring to "convert" anyone. Im simply sharing my opinion and belief just like everyone else. Do I think it would be wonderful if something caused even one person to at least stop and think, hmmm...maybe she has something here? Of course it would be great, but I would never try to force my beliefs on anyone. As I stated, I respect everyones beliefs and opinions, whether I agree with them or not. And I most certainly did not admit that Im closed minded. When I said I am pretty stubborn and it takes a lot to convunce me of something, I was referring to my own belief in God. Too many things have occured in my life to deny him. If I was not opened minded, I would not have friends who are bi-sexual, or gay. I would not be living with my boyfriend without benefit of marriage, and he is black too, lol...so you see, I AM very open, and I am a kind and loving person. Do I still have questions? Of course I do. Its human nature to question things. We want to know everything.
I missed one thing, kind of, you said that calling some a true christian and some false is proof that you are right. Wrong sweetie. The fact of the matter is that there are true and false people everywhere. Christian or not.
Religion leads toward Hell, making you think that you justify yourself by what you do when your sin is not paid for......then you end up paying in Hell forever.
That's a lie. Humanism is self centered. Anything you do in it, or believe in it, is to make yourself feel better or to keep yourself from feeling worse. Humanism is the same as Satanism, the individual trying to replace God with himself (or herself). In reality, you are a Satanist making yourself the devil, trying to get people to follow you by pretending to be good.........and taking yourself along with anybody who follows you down in death to the fire of Hell. Don't believe it? just wait and see.
if by humanism you mean the scientific movement to alter mans genetic code....by killing babies and harvesting stem cells to graft new genetic growth in an already established dna sequence......ya sounds just like caring to me ....
I GIVE ALL MY LOVE AND WORSHIP TO THE ONE WHO MAKES ME FEEL SO GOOD AND THAT IS SATANISM , I LOVE IT THE MORE EVIL AND WICKED THE BETTER IT IS , I LOVE A MACHINE THAT SATAN HAS GIVEN ME TO MAKE LOVE TO AND NOW I CAN'T STOP LOVING IT .
Bible says that worship the Lord, you God and serve only Him. There is a Heaven and a hell. I can assure you that those who serve and worship satan will go to hell with satan.
You will hate yourself for saying this kind of stuff, and the memories will haunt you forever, if you don't get saved from Hell before your death is finalized and you find no way to get out of the fire.
There was a flood as they found out from a set of non-christian stone tablets from ages ago. It was a huge flood covering quite a lot of places in the middle-east. Perhaps the world was not flooded, but a large space of land was and the people living there at the time could not travel long distances or get in touch with the rest of the world - they probably did think the whole world was flooded.
The Bible says we came from the first humans in the Garden of Eden. This is a story which most people believe is not true, merely something with truths in it to analyse - for example, the Garden of Eden is supposed to represent Heaven and the Snake is supposed to represent Satan (they were both chucked out of Heaven or the place symbolising Heaven). Therefore it is not a story to believe, it is one to look at and dissect.
When did the Bible mention dinosaurs?
Saying that miracles are impossible is an oxymoron. The definition of a miracle is when something happens that is unexplained by science. Therefore they could've happened and not been able to be explained. This is mostly why a lot of people believe: Christianity is full of things that cannot be explained unless one believes in God.
I believe that the Bible, although some bits are opinions and therefore not wholly believable, some bits are stories that were made up at one point and gradually led to be seen as truth, some bits are laws of the people and therefore faulty and some bits are unexplained. However...
even if I found out the Bible was not true and God did not exist and Jesus was a mad man, I would not consider my Christian life wasted. I believe God tells us to love one another and help those in need, the weak, the homeless, the cruel, the confused, the people who cannot help themselves and everyone around us otherwise. Every Christian who reads the Bible has read things saying that God wants us to love each other and forgive sins.
Wouldn't the world be a great place if everyone did that? This is why I believe a word the Bible says. I also believe that Satan is all God is not: selfish, unkind, cruel, one who uses people, one who hurts people, who wants nothing better than to have us all as his slaves.
And I think that, even if I discovered that this was not what is true and right, I would still work towards what God told us to do.
mass flooding of any kind in the sediments anywhere.
I know what the story means but it's blatantly false. And if you wanna say "it's a metaphor" then how can you say that anything else in the bible isn't a metaphor? And if god didn't literally create us and it's just a story then why believe in god?
These "miracles" are scientifically inpossible. And I used to believe in god and saw nothing of the sort. Christianity is all about taking what you can't explain, or what's beautiful or whatever and instead of learning the real reasons behind it you stick god in there and it's all peachy. I won't believe in false claims backed by no evidence.
If even some of it you know is unbelieveable and false then how can you trust any of it? And it's not all love and happiness. There's also orders to kill gays, witches, ect. To maim yourself, to submit to a fake entity, and to follow a strict doctrine that brainwashes you into following and not thinking independently.
Ok to weather or not the earth is flat Google non cgi photo of earth next time you see one ask yourself were the satalights are ...anyhow that not point bible says earth was flooded ...it was shells on Everest prove that and before you give me the tectonic plate theory ...that has never ever been proven its a lie the shape of continents on maps is a lie you really can't believe what you have been told that's why it's called the great deception. ..next the two people in the garden ....bible says we came from dust of the ground. ..and our make up has a ton of trace earth elements and compounds. ..as far as dinosaurs find one set a full set of bones that haven't been priced together from seperate dig sites and how the fuck do they know what color they are or what the skin looks like ...these professors are professional con men with degrees in bullshit .....4.5 billion years you say ....how did this number come about ....cause as far as I know there is no known reliable replicated process that accurately age dates anything. ...as to the miracles of GOD just go apply for a dive permit in the red sea ....as of 2000 you cannot an underwater earthquakein the sea bed unearthed the chariots and a sand storm in 2001 unearthed the brick city of Ramses with 500 empty chariot stalls ...I can do this all day and I have all across this world one misguided uniformed professor and person at a time are you next ....I will leave this site
Theres a picture taken from the space shuttle Atlantis. It includes both a clearly curved earth and the Soviet MIR space station thats been orbiting since 2001.
anyhow that not point bible says earth was flooded ...it was shells on Everest prove that and before you give me the tectonic plate theory ...that has never ever been proven its a lie the shape of continents on maps is a lie you really can't believe what you have been told that's why it's called the great deception.
Yes plate tectonics is proven. Its been proven since the early 1900s easily. We know how mountains are formed. We know what carves the topography of the earth. Mountains rising up from sea floors and carrying debris that fossilize is not proof of a global flood.
So youre willing to reject literally everything we've proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, even the curvature of the earth, in favor of a 2000 year old ancient jewish tome. A tome with zero actual data driven evidence, nor real world evidence we can discover to substantiate it. And youre gonna talk to me about how im deceived. Ok champ
next the two people in the garden ....bible says we came from dust of the ground. ..and our make up has a ton of trace earth elements and compounds.
Because as you know there are only a set amount of elements. Why would we NOT expect to find some of the same elements in our bodies that we find in the earth? And your argument would make a lot more sense if you could scoop up a random handful of dirt and find every single element in the same proportions to our bodies. but you cant. Because we didnt come from dirt.
..as far as dinosaurs find one set a full set of bones that haven't been priced together from seperate dig sites
This is a stegosaurus found 85% intact at one single site. To expect a 100% intact skeleton from millions of years ago is absurd, youre just not gonna get that lucky. But 85% is incredible. To get a 100% intact skeleton you would have to have every single piece of bone fossilized which just doesnt happen.
and how the fuck do they know what color they are or what the skin looks like ..
Because alot of the time there is some skin and muscle tissue left over on these bones. From the percentages of elements in the tissue we can roughly estimate what pigmentation the skin had. Keep in mind when were reconstructing dinosaurs it isnt an exact science. Nobody is saying "this is EXACTLY what they looked like down to every last detail". Its just our best rendition of what they looked like from the bones and tissue we have to examine.
these professors are professional con men with degrees in bullshit
No theyre PhD scientists with multiple degrees cultivated over DECADES of studying this shit. You dont have to believe them but to insinuate that the entire field of paleontology is a total sham with no evidence to substantiate its findings is a MASSIVE claim that you simply cannot prove. Im going to go with the thousands of scientists with advanced degrees and decades of experience in the field over some flat earther clown on the internet.
4.5 billion years you say ....how did this number come about ....cause as far as I know there is no known reliable replicated process that accurately age dates anything. ...
Potassium-argon dating. Thats probably the longest dating process we have available. Yes we have several dating processes. Some are more accurate than others but they do work and we know they work. Just because you refuse to accept them doesnt make them any less solid.
as to the miracles of GOD just go apply for a dive permit in the red sea ....as of 2000 you cannot an underwater earthquakein the sea bed unearthed the chariots and a sand storm in 2001 unearthed the brick city of Ramses with 500 empty chariot stalls ...
Then site the sources that found these things. So far i havent found a single scholarly source confirming these chariots. I found one claim of chariot WHEELS found however they are astoundingly shiny and new looking for something thats been buried for thousands of years. Apparently this is a well known hoax and most likely a ferry wheel from a relatively new vessel. They did not find any actual chariots.
So can i. Difference is i have the entire bastion of scientific knowledge to pull from and you have your own asshole which im sure has a bottom if you dig deep enough.
and I have all across this world one misguided uniformed professor and person at a time are you next ....I will leave this site
Then you might as well save yourself the embarrassment and leave now because youre just regurgitating the same tired old refuted claims that ive seen since i started frequenting this website 2 years ago.
as I said a non computer generated picture .....and were is the fourth wall ...and were are the thousands of satalightes...also ive seen the same space station on Sandra bullock movies ......this is a joke to emphasize you did not follow the NON CGI photo ....and as for tectonic plate theory where was it proven and by what process you people need to learn the difference between saying something and actually knowing it ...I can offer proofs as I know the computer program used to generate the photo you used as proof that only proved as I was saying these pictures are all CGI....you did not do very deep investigation so you failed there....so you say mt Everest came from the ocean floor ....how in science to be fact it must be replicated ....you see a lot of ten mile transitions do ya .....all these people have done as I have confronted them in several universities is add time and distance to account for lack luster results......in the 60s it was millions of years then people crunched the numbers and seen that to scale the math was wrong ...then they said hundreds of millions ....we did the math and scale was off now they say billions and as I have proven in many debates all nature replicates on constant numeric sequences ....and this being the foundation of the many modern theories has proven that at scale billions of years is so fucking absurd .....for one lets say that is true what proof do they have ...a test performed in secret by them to prove a theory that keeps them employed and the GOD they hate out of the lime light ....set amount of elements when is the last time you read the revised table ...you must not work in the field ...I can tell by other basic foolish thing but this is the clincher ...we have added quite a few things to the table since 1984 ...some you will never be privy to like compounds 147 to compounds 151 you will never ever see those in your life neither will your kids this tech is government clearance level 18 sooooo good luck chuck...as for a intact set of bones ...I have dr friend who has quite a few ever seen the ice man or the wooly mammoth full sets of less than million year bones it seems as you add bullshit time and distance your story literally falls apart ..85 % set of bones makes a full color life size representation ...that statement on its own make my case for forged evidence ....as we have a 2% genetic difference than primates you can see where 15% is just fucking laughable...ive met and studied along side these retards trust me there degrees are worthless but as long as they can forge data to receive handouts that match government narative ......and you name one dig that a million year plus set of bones with soft tissue connected and ill prove you found a dead dog....potassium argon you say....this is fancy terms for gas dating ....this data starts with a notion that gases behave and build up and release one certain way .....ever seen Yellowstone...if you have then youknow gasses can release at random ...they rely on people like you who only say something and not know anything to spout off things like a puppet that aren't true....so far you did not meet non CGI clause you stated a non replicated even to scale theory....you clamed the elemental table was complete ...its not .....we add to it all the time your just not on the call list .....you admitted 15% margin of error in a field were 2% creates new species ....you used gas as your bases for time stamping the entire earth .....a man pressurized gas test with a outcome being the bases of test not truth ....if you like I can come to your house with 10 dollars worth of equipment and we can recreate a million year old piece of dog shit ....using your pattasium argon gas.....and I think considering I know a archeologist who applied for said dive permit and was denied and told by locals why...... your the guy who tells local tribes men in the African swamp that makela umbeba is not real ....even though they are telling you last week there kid was eaten by it .....you have essentially done nothing but prove my case and how shallow your work is you relied on others to do your work ....these people have never done well in debates and you think your smart for using there flawed work on here well im not these laymen sir ...I can debunk everything you just said if you would like I can compile test data and present it ....keep in mind you met none of the criteria ....I have personally in labs proven everything your going to say wrong and so have many others if a scientific method is propped up on bogus data you should not use it this stuff is fed to you people because your small enough and lazy enough to buy into it ....
as I said a non computer generated picture .....and were is the fourth wall ...and were are the thousands of satalightes...also ive seen the same space station on Sandra bullock movies ..
1. its not CGI its taken from a space shuttle.
2. 4th wall? Wtf are you talking about?
3. You do realize earth is HUGE right? Youre not gonna see every satellite bunched up together in a pack. Thats not how gravity works.
4. No the space station in the Sandra Bullock movies was a Chinese spacecraft. This one is a soviet craft.
Your incredulity is not evidence against this quite clear depiction of a round earth.
....this is a joke to emphasize you did not follow the NON CGI photo ...
Its not CGI you twat. Just insisting that it is does not make it CGI.
and as for tectonic plate theory where was it proven and by what process you people need to learn the difference between saying something and actually knowing it ...I can offer proofs as I know the computer program used to generate the photo you used as proof that only proved as I was saying these pictures are all CGI.
The richtor scale wouldnt make any sense if tectonic plates werent a thing. We wouldnt be able to measure earthquakes at all. Yet we can. Because tectonic plates are a thing.
And just because you can point to a program that can generate CGI does not mean that the picture was made using that program. How would you even begin to prove how that picture was generated?
..you did not do very deep investigation so you failed there....so you say mt Everest came from the ocean floor ....how in science to be fact it must be replicated
It doesnt take deep investigation to prove the fucking earth is round. Shit weve known since Eratosthenes proved it back like 2000 years ago. This is shit that 3rd graders know.
As for replicated, every single mountain in existence forms the same way. Everest, Killamanjaro, ect. They all formed via tectonic plates. We can make similar plates in a lab that behave the same way and yes they form the same kind of mountains and valleys that we see in real life. Tectonic plates exist. Get over it.
...you see a lot of ten mile transitions do ya .....all these people have done as I have confronted them in several universities is add time and distance to account for lack luster results......in the 60s it was millions of years then people crunched the numbers and seen that to scale the math was wrong ...then they said hundreds of millions ....we did the math and scale was off now they say billions and as I have proven in many debates all nature replicates on constant numeric sequences ....and this being the foundation of the many modern theories has proven that at scale billions of years is so fucking absurd ..
Science actually cares about being right. So yes it used to be millions of years then we made more discoveries in the fields of dating methods and re-evaluated the estimates. Youre trying to use sciences greatest strength like its a weakness. The fact that old debunked data is thrown out in favor of new data is a good thing.
...for one lets say that is true what proof do they have ...a test performed in secret by them to prove a theory that keeps them employed and the GOD they hate out of the lime light
This shit is not done in secret. Almost any scientific finding is published publicly out in the open for anyone to read. All of this data is right out in the open in any number of scientific journals. I see how weve resorted to the classic "science is a conspiracy" theory which has literally no basis in reality whatsoever. Also many scientists are christians, hindus, muslims, ect and actively believe in god so your "scientists hate god" theory is bullshit.
...set amount of elements when is the last time you read the revised table ...you must not work in the field ...I can tell by other basic foolish thing but this is the clincher ...we have added quite a few things to the table since 1984 ...some you will never be privy to like compounds 147 to compounds 151 you will never ever see those in your life neither will your kids this tech is government clearance level 18 sooooo good luck chuck
Its because elements with high atomic numbers are insanely unstable and only exist for fractions of a second in highly regulated environments. The amount of STABLE elements is pretty much set. Other than that yes youd need to have some kind of clearance to get into a lab where they do testing with unstable elements.
...as for a intact set of bones ...I have dr friend who has quite a few ever seen the ice man or the wooly mammoth full sets of less than million year bones it seems as you add bullshit time and distance your story literally falls apart ..85 % set of bones makes a full color life size representation ...that statement on its own make my case for forged evidence ....as we have a 2% genetic difference than primates you can see where 15% is just fucking laughable...ive met and studied along side these retards trust me there degrees are worthless but as long as they can forge data to receive handouts that match government narative
Sure you have a doctor friend. Suuuuure you do. Yes your one random made up friend is totally legit and EVERY other paleontologist is a liar. Yup totally bud.
......and you name one dig that a million year plus set of bones with soft tissue connected and ill prove you found a dead dog....potassium argon you say....this is fancy terms for gas dating
No its fancy terms for potassium fucking argon dating. These terms have actual fucking definitions. Youre just strawmanning every single thing i say and then dismissing it without disproving jack shit. In volcanic rock potassium decays into argon. Its half life is extraordinarily long. Hence why we can date back to billions of years. It is not "gas dating". The fuck does that even mean?
....this data starts with a notion that gases behave and build up and release one certain way .....ever seen Yellowstone...if you have then youknow gasses can release at random
Potassium argon dating literally has NOTHING to do with geysers and yellowstone. Youre pulling this straight out of your asshole.
...they rely on people like you who only say something and not know anything to spout off things like a puppet that aren't true.
The projection is so real.
...so far you did not meet non CGI
Yes i fucking did, you just claim i didnt with zero evidence to prove it.
clause you stated a non replicated even to scale theory....you clamed the elemental table was complete ...its not .....we add to it all the time your just not on the call list
The amount of stable elements is set. No we dont add to it all the time because weve reached a point where the elements were making are so unstable theyre near impossible to generate.
.....you admitted 15% margin of error in a field were 2% creates new species
I dont know where you pulled these 15% and 2% numbers out of because i didnt use those numbers at all. No % causes speciation. % of what exactly? What are you even referring to? Speciation occurs due to a plethora of reasons not just pure DNA difference.
....you used gas as your bases for time stamping the entire earth .....a man pressurized gas test with a outcome being the bases of test not truth
No i cited potassium argon dating which you then strawmanned to be "gas dating" which isnt a fucking thing. Also once again your incredulity is not evidence against this quite established dating method.
..if you like I can come to your house with 10 dollars worth of equipment and we can recreate a million year old piece of dog shit ....using your pattasium argon gas
Well seeing as the half life of potassium-40 is 1.3 billion years its gonna be interesting to see how your 10$ equipment can speed up the decay rate.
....and I think considering I know a archeologist who applied for said dive permit and was denied and told by locals why..
Yeah your archaeologist friend who also knows your dr friend. Suuuuuure buddy. sure.
... your the guy who tells local tribes men in the African swamp that makela umbeba is not real ...even though they are telling you last week there kid was eaten by it
What the honest fuck are you rambling about? Umbeba? The fuck? Speak english.
....you have essentially done nothing but prove my case and how shallow your work is you relied on others to do your work ....these people have never done well in debates and you think your smart for using there flawed work on here well im not these laymen sir
And youve proven you have no interest in actually disputing anything i say and merely claim that its not true. You use your own incredulity as evidence and make up bullshit anecdotal evidence around your supposed "friends". Youre a layman in the most pure sense of the word.
..I can debunk everything you just said if you would like I can compile test data and present it ..
Then fucking do it you retard. Dont just bloviate about how you CAN do it just fucking do it. Id love to see what mental diarrhea you spout onto the page as you try desperately to prove the earth is fucking flat. Some stupid shit people havent believed since we fucked goats in the desert.
..keep in mind you met none of the criteria ....I have personally in labs proven everything your going to say wrong
I dont believe for a second that youve ever set foot in a lab let alone proven anything at all. Youre a fucking liar and an obvious one at that.
and so have many others if a scientific method is propped up on bogus data you should not use it this stuff is fed to you people because your small enough and lazy enough to buy into it ....
Says the jibbering retard who believes the earth is flat and 2 human beings populated the entire earth that flooded at some point. Youre trying to hard to be condescending like you know everything when in reality youre a brainwashed goon trying desperately to bullshit your way through a conversation. Fuck outa here
im keeping this brief I haven't been in classroom for almost 20 years so im a little rusty and this is not my wheel house genetic grafting gnome stem cell is ....as for the programs used to "edit earth data" it called worldview options eosdis on earth software modis imagery meta raster mrf ....start with just these bullshit softwares to generate photos like the one you left links too as I told you before we have a lot more on the periodic table than you know you just weren't emailed and as for my qulifications my weakness is enzyme unknotting of genetic chain ...I cant beat the enzimes yet... but ill bet the farm I beat you ....my dr friends name is kent he and his family own a meseum in florida his collection was so good the feds robbed him twice...im not a liar and as for your testing if you want data I can get it fresh from the lab if you want it ...I did give you some to start on but I figured you were smart enough to reliaze that any doubt on truth makes it very suspect there are thousands of papers and court cases on fraudulent evidences in science ...do your home work I gave you cen tech j vol ten to research you can go from there so to let you know where you are here is what is coming for you the dollar is slated to fold into electronic currency......on an established rfid system coming this year ..soldiers are going to be brain chipped this year or next on a point to point scaler communication network ...that processes beyond the speeds of light ...like way beyond...like I said scaler point to point....you will see genetic grafting this I know for sure and can easily prove labs in china are turning out glow in the dark cats and dogs when you buy one ....your welcome ....and when we use stemcell to graft code from animals into your code to create extra abilities your not so welcome this has very thickle results usually extreme violent outbursts and fits of rage....but we are using plant stem cell to rejuvenate skin and boost skin cream effectiveness also if you get your hands on some genetic blue print testostrone this is also out and is really really good but no long term studies have been done so use with caution......other than this im not able to elaborate to you the hows and whys I pretty safe on this ...I can tell you in generic terms how it COULD be done in theory ....the flat earth is just a fun argument I had to close a deal today and needed to zone out for a few and this just levels me out .....any how im really into proving some more to you but you have homework for now sorry for being a dick I was multi tasking and a little on edge this week
Hey not to be a weirdo this is all for sport for me like a hobby ...and I'm new to save me learning curve and you lots of wasted time I rant and I'm a terrible at writting I'm no novelist ...how do you have lines of what I said and lines of you rebuff in sequences like that .....and the forth wall is a movie set rule you can never show the fourth wall I would butcher any real explanation just Google it ...just so we're clear I still can prove you so wrong it will help if i wrote better I'm terrible with people too so if I act like a shit I'm sorry
ok to be frank this is not a very good attempt to prove me wrong so I sent out a message to a friend who studies this field and he said as follows test results can be viewed cen tech j vol 10 p335-343 ...published research on this one he did in 1996 this proves that this test is only 25% percent accurate on rock not bone as bone doesn't have the argon build up needed to fudge the test in the first place and the lowest date possible on a test of this nature is 200000 to 270000 years old so he asked me to find recent formed rock in lava field tests that have been dated this way to calibrate accurancy in the labs procedures ..... now keep in mind you can literally see the minute this becomes rock for the first time ....and the average was ....270000 to 3.7 million years for a day old rock.....so as I said argon gas you say ....I viewed and contacted the folks in picture you listed it has been significantly altered by computer generation program...they full on admit this when pressed or researched in basic search engine settings ....so you failed twice now ...tectonic plate theory ...this is from the people who are so far behind predicting earthquakes in real time that it is just a fuckin joke .....find one time these people accurately predicted an earth quake...and please don't reference hoolywood or green screen as you have in past presentations ...ive been able to find really good pics of Godzilla on the net are those real too.....anyhow back to station tectonic plate theory is excepted because it cannot be proven or disproven its like the cat in the box both alive and dead....so you think Everest rose from the ocean floor ...what ocean in the hymilas are you referring cause if Everest was under water in the sea the rest of the world would be too ...now lets talk self evident ice age....how my friend is water tested to see if it was ever frozen......oh leet me help you there is to date NO TEST to see if water was frozen so what says the ice age was ice ...isn't ice frozen water....if it were snow it would be snow age not ice age.....and since non of us were there we can safely assume it was some form of WATER......and as I told you in private in the animal kingdom there is a 2% genetic difference in primates and humans and your thowing out 85% accurate digs as ok to fudge the rest into full size and color replicas ...of what art class....2% makes a new species ..what then can 15% do ....you have nothing your argument false on material that has been defeated in court and class room for many years.....your type of people are so damaging you do just enough homework to sound smart...but poison the knowledge well and as for the red sea I know a archiologist who applied for a dive permit and was refused and was told why by locals who live there and saw this with there own eyes....bottom line you say science and I say how .....if you say big bang I will refer you to the losers at cern that have failed evrey attempt to replicate this and I will say what caused bang and what created the particles and if you say the bang srang forth the bang and the particles im going to puke in your face.....because that makes you the stupidest person in the room ....doesn't matter what room or who is in it you are the dumbest.....if you believe a bang from nowhere created particles that created life as complex as this ...and again for something to be real it must be able to be replicated ....your dating systems even accourding to those who use it know its flawed I presented proof ...you yourself said large percentages of digs are seriously short of intact bone sets....now let me ask if I bury a dog and its pupps in a flood the bones are mixed and you have no clue what this animal was its dead and never been seen ....you will try to put all those bones together making a fuckin mess out of the dog ...this is archiology...ask an honest one ....
SATANISM ANY DAY OF THE WEEK FOR IT IS ALOT MORE FUN TO LIVE ON THE EVIL DARK SIDE THAN DO GOOD . I'D RATHER LIVE WITH THE SINNERS THAN CRY WITH THE SAINTS .
3) Satanic teachings and practices are healthier to oneself and ones community than any Christianitys. Remember all those satanist and atheist wars? ......neither do I.
tell me token satanist .....why ....why would you serve the one who is supposed to serve you .....this morning star tricks you into serving him...let me get this straight you were born a man mirrored image of YWHW and had his all consuming breath in your dna ....set to inherit the universe (not as you seen it on tv or in school those turds know nothing )...and you were tricked into trading places with the help.....I guess you really showed us ...
LET'S GET IT TOGETHER OVER HERE AND REALIZE THAT THE ONES WHO REALLY LOVE SATANISM WANT TO BE THE MOST EVIL WICKED ONE , HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . WHO CARES ABOUT christianity I DON'T AT ALL god damn it , I LOVE MY EVIL SIDE AND WORSHIP IT .
THE ONLY THING I WANT LOVE AND WORSHIP IS MY MACHINE AND IF IT TAKES CONTROL OF ME AND SENDS ME TO COMPLETE DARKNESS AND WICKED EVIL FIRE I WANT IT CAUSE IT MAKES ME FEEL FANTASTIC LOVING MY MACHINE AND I DON'T GIVE A god damn ABOUT christianity , HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA .
I CHOOSE JESUS CHRIST BECAUSE HE CHANGED MY LIFE FOR THE BETTER, SATAN TRIED TO DESTROY MY LIFE BUT JESUS CHRIST LIFTED ME OUT OF THE DARKNESS, IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST I COME AGAINST ALL DEMONS ON HERE AND I BIND THEM AND BURN THEM WITH THE HOLY FIRE OF HEAVEN IN JESUS NAME, FEEL THE PAIN I FELT IN MY CHILDHOOD TIMES 7!!!
enjoy while you can, if that's the way you want to go out. There won't be any fun in Hell, and the chaos will be entirely focused and unchanging from the fire of Hell making chaos of your memories .......only your memories will be chaotic, and they will torment your mind and soul much like the flames will torment your body.........IF you wont' repent of your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ before your dying is final and you end up in eternal dying in the Lake of Fire.
Y'all do realize that as sinners, we all deserve to die now, right? Every moment of time outside of Hell is a gift from God we do not deserve and cannot earn. Ya'll see the plain simple truth of reality, right?
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
Those are, to my knowledge, some teachings/commandments of Satanism. They're kinda immoral, just a tad, but otherwise, they look pretty cool.
You don't know much about Satanism. They use "breeders", women to give birth in secret to produce babies for human sacrifice. The "breeders" will give their bodies in orgies to all the men in a Satan worship event, giving her body to Satan......and animal sacrifice is much more common among them.
If I do remember right that is only for theistic satanism or the kinds of satanism created for movie entertainment, the ones who believe Satan is an actual being. In Atheistic satanism the symbol of Satan represents man and human nature
Doesn't matter. You are a sinner, and you are like a devil in God's sight. Whatever you believe in atheism will not make God go away, it will not make Hell non-existent, and it will not make Satan be nothing but a myth. You need to be saved from Hell, and God made the way for you by paying with His own blood as the Son of God so you can be forgiven by Him if you will believe on His resurrection after He died for your sins and receive Him, the Lord God Almighty, Jesus Christ, as your Savior.
well if this is the list what about blood sex magik ......this is an absolute assault on children and one of the highest levels of satan worship .....what does it feel like to serve a servant ...a master of one location...that's pretty lame ....
You are asking for your own eternal condemnation in the fire of Hell to fry like an eternal sausage while only the smoke of your torments rises from the fire. You are going to get what you are asking for if you keep asking for it, fool.
We don't worship Satan, we worship ourselves using the metaphorical representation of the qualities of Satan. Satan is the name used by Judeo-Christians for that force of individuality and pride within us. But the force itself has been called by many names.We embrace Christian myths of Satan and Lucifer, along with Satanic renderings in Greek, Roman, Islamic, Sumerian, Syrian, Phrygian, Egyptian, Chinese or Hindu mythologies, to name but a few. We are not limited to one deity, but encompass all the expressions of the accuser or the one who advocates free thought and rational alternatives by whatever name he is called in a particular time and land. It so happens that we are living in a culture that is predominantly Judeo-Christian, so we emphasize Satan. If we were living in Roman times, the central figure, perhaps the title of our religion, would be different. But the name would be expressing and communicating the same thing. It's all context
It's strange, I've just started to research Satanism and I must say, it makes much more sense than Christianity. It's all about opening your mind instead of pleasing some bearded man in the sky.
Islam is like christianity on steroids. Its an insane group of psycho literalist elitist madmen bent on destruction and genocide of everybody but them. If there was ever and evil religion, it was Islam.
Islam teaches that infidels must die so they can be sent to Hell where they will eventually learn to always say God's name is Allah and Muhammed is his prophet, then they can be released from Hell and live in paradise forever. They teach they are doing you a favor if you are not a Muslim and will not convert to Islam...they do you the favor of sending you to Hell so you can be corrected and then live in paradise forever.
Restrictions on females is slower evil, the women are held as sex-slaves and fortunate if they have a man who keeps them out of harm.
I understand that Christianity is deluded. Please explain how satanism (REAL satanic philosophy [I understand how theism is deluded and I agree]) is deluded.
You should have created a neutral category. I'm an atheist, I don't believe in either satan or god, and I have to downvote my own comments to be sure to not contribute to any of the sides, since I don't believe any of them has any more meaning than the other.
Yeah lemme just make a 3rd category. You can't do that. This debate just doesn't apply to you. You don't have to post here. Also I didn't design the debate so you had to be a satanist or a Christian to argue. It's an analysis of both and you choose which one you prefer even if you're a 3rd party. Like a Wiccan could argue on either side saying that religion compared to the other is more moral. As the description states.
An intelligent and open minded Wiccan might be able to point out things that both sides were neglecting to consider. Same happens with an atheist on a religious debate. Leaving people out just because they don't share your opinion or your opposer's opinion is not very intelectualy healthy thing to do. One might vote "neither" and still might or might not have interesting things to add to the argument anyway.
I don't believe you can make a third category now, but I believe you can do it when creating a debate. Some time ago people could create their own categories. Don't know what happened to that...
I wasnt leaving them out. Anyone is welcome to bring their arguments to the table.
If someone were to vote "neither" or anything for that matter AND had zero things to point out or add to the debate then they don't belong in the debate. There's no point to them being there.
And exactly, if I could make a 3rd party catagory I would. I just can't.
All in all let's remember: you dont HAVE to participate in EVERY debate. People do post debates that ask for a specific target audience to reply. If you are not in this target audience DON'T debate there. I don't go debating about mathematics theories because I'm a math dumbass and have nothing to contribute.
Satan is a part of christianity. In fact, lucifer and hell had nothing to do with the common depiction we give it nowadays, of some kind of monster with a goatie (and many many others) and a (supposedly) underground cave full of fire that you may get into in the afterlife. Hell was, in their time, (as depicted in the bible, if I'm not mistaken) a dump where they dumped the dead bodies of those not worthy of jesus' love and such things. Lucifer was who ran the dump or something.
Hell was not something of the afterlife nor supernatural, but something very real (assuming the stories in the bible and christianity are historicaly real), although, the reasons why they dumped the bodies there had influence from supernatural beliefs.
I can't remember all the details so take all I just described as just as a rather close approximation to what it was (my best attempt from the top of my head now).
But the point is, satan is part of christianity. Most satanists don't even think about that, I guess. Most christians don't either. It could be argued that satanism is but a sub-set of christianity as well. A rather fanatic/fundamentalist rebel/revolted subset of it. Either way, Satan, in it's current depictions and in mythological depictions, is just as imaginary as god.
I would challenge you to read the Nine Satanic Statements which I will link for you here, and then tell me there is anything deluded about them. I will also be happy to engage you in a formal debate on this subject.
The problem is not that we as humans seek our own pleasure, happiness, or joy. The problem is that we as sinners look for it in the wrong places. Consider this analogy: Children always seek to eat only what tastes good to them. We, as adults, regret this in children and seek to wean them of this tendency. It is not that we adults think that eating should not include things that taste good. It is that we know that not everything that tastes good is good or is even food in the first place. Children’s understanding of nutrition and their tastes are not developed, however; therefore, they invariably resist eating what is good for them and desire what is not good for them or is even harmful. If children ate according to the philosophy of Satanism, then they would never deny themselves whatever tastes good regardless whether it has any nutritional value, like cotton candy, or, worse, they would eat something that tastes good but is poison. They also would refuse to eat what is good for them, all the while mocking and ridiculing those who did so eat.
If we think of eating as an analogy of living one’s life, and good and bad tastes as an analogy of pleasures and pains, then perhaps we can see that what we as humans need to learn is to recognize and appreciate what actually is good for us. Perhaps what we, like children, need is for our understanding and tastes to develop so that we learn to love what is good for us. What the Christian understands but the Satanist does not is that there is something wrong with us. We fallen humans too often find pleasure in what is not in our best interest or is evil. The problem, however, is not the experience of pleasure itself. The problem is in us: we choose the wrong things to satisfy our desire for pleasure. What we need is somehow to come to love the taste of what is intrinsically good and what is in our ultimate best interest.35 This is where God comes in. We need to “taste and see that the Lord is good; Blessed is the man who trusts in Him!PS(Ps. 34:8).
First, you need to specify which kind of Satanism, and which kind of Christianity.
I my self subscribe to Atheistic Satanist beliefs.
Those are that God is false, Satan is false, the bible is a lie, and every other God and Goddess is human creation to explain the mysteries of life.
We also believe that you must care for yourself, and do unto others what they have done unto you.
We believe that the Id the person is the most important thing in the world, and that e must use logic and science to discover the Universes secrets. Atheistic Satanism is the right way for humans to live, because the morality of the Bible is obviously not part of the workings of the world. Christianity is as false a concept as Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, the old (now new again) pagan faiths, and World Peace.
Well, you belong with us. Many of us do not believe in a deity and know that Darwinism is correct. However, we take it to the next level. We value individualism, knowledge, an the ego. If you have realized that you are fighting against a world that does not care for you, and do not find that to be a source of depression as you have those who care for you, and you car for, then look atheistic Satanism. I had the beliefs of a Satanist for al long time, I even pondered creating a sect dedicated to those beliefs. I did no believe in the devil, and still do not. You need not believe to be a Satanist.
The philosophy behind Satanism is lust of power believing power proves you have the right to exist outside of Hell free of punishment for your sins. A slap on the wrist is to be expected here and there, but for final execution of judgement, you believe you get out by your power.
The basic premise is that God is not good, and is replaced by the individual with the most powerful individual ruling in place of God. Satan knows that he has lost in this battle against God and is doomed to the Lake of Fire in eternal torment, to get what He deserves for trying to displace and exile his creator, polluting the beauty God made with the corruptions of sin which is always destructive. People who worship Satan will suffer forever in the devils Hell fire as trophies of the devil, never satisfying his hatred of God, but giving him a feeling of having struck back at God by keeping people God loves from seeking His mercy and believing on the resurrection of God in the flesh, the Son of God.
"Blood On The Doorposts" was written by one of the highest ranked Satanists today who repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ after finding his powers useless a Christian. He gives as much of the gory details of Satanism as he can....some of the rituals are too ungodly awful to speak of in detail, but he makes it all clear enough.
I was involved at a lower level in Satanism, not really knowing what I was getting into with occult stuff......I didn't realize the things I was dabbling in were Satanic in origin. The devil is ok with people who dabble in occult things and never progress into blatant Satanism....it's all the same stuff, all rebellion against God, all leads to the same devil's Hell fire, and the Lake of Fire from which the smoke of their torments will rise forever.
I see a lot of Christians arguing against Satanism without seeming to have much of an understanding of what it even is or what the values are. Do research on the topic before you try and debate because some of these arguments are making me cringe
The Tenets for Satanism are absolutely astounding and make a lot of sense. I'm not saying the Ten Commandments don't make sense, but they don't follow them in the bible and are very hypocritical.
Satanic Tenets:
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own.
Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and resolve any harm that may have been caused.
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
There are two different types of Satanism. LaVeyan Satanism and Theistic Satanism, LaVeyan being the focus on oneself rather than Satan himself. Theistic Satanism is focus on Satan.
If it was a choice between satanism or Christianity, satanism all the way! I would totally do the seven deadly sins every day, most notably lust and gluttony. :)
Not Satan from YOUR religion. Christianity just took the name and turned it into your boogyman because apparently the authors of your holy book lack creativity. They steal A LOT of stuff. Anyways, even if we are talking about Satan from Christianity if STILL be on his side. God has killed MILLIONS supposedly, Satan has killed 10. As god was committing atrocities against humanity Satan stood up to him, the bully on the playground, for US and tried to stop him and was cast into hell for it. Seems like Satan likes us A ton more than god...
Technically Satan refused to bow to Adam synonymous to us since his pride got the better of him. He said that he was made of fire and we were made of dirt. So therefore that already invalidates your argument that he is on our side since he refused to bow to us. Look into the Bible for further info. In the timeline, before Noah`s ark, Satan had already been cast into hell for deceiving Adam and Eve. Man had everything in the garden of Eden. So therefore at the peak of happiness, our ally would no longer take action to alter such happiness. But due to Satan`s actions, he tempted man and woman into disobeying God therefore losing all wisdom and immortality provided by the tree of life. So this ally of yours tempted man and broth forth suffering. God does not need to atone for what he did for he has every right to what he wants with his creations. For example you created a game. Your the boss there and someone hacks into that game of yours. So, would you consider that hacker an ally?
Refusing to bow to someone does not make them you're enemy, plus all this is from the bible while the questioner you responded to deliberately said NOT from Christianity.
The bible also never says Satan tempted Adam and Eve, it refers to a serpent and the idea that the snake was Satan only came about due to religious imagery and then later scripture.
When I think of Satan I think of Him as the person that is roaming around the earth trying to get people to hell and do bad things and later down the road Satan will be destroyed by God.
By the way I am not in a religion a religion is man's way to get to God and Christianity is God's way to get to man. Man's way is filled with errors and flaws while as Christianity God knows more than every one else does.
Christianity just took the name and turned it into your boogyman because apparently the authors of your holy book lack creativity.
Actually we didn't take that name it was originated from Christianity because before Lucifer became Satan, he was an angel and the reason why he rebelled and went to hell is because he wanted to be like God and some of the people in heaven followed Lucifer causing God to throw them out of heaven and into the pit of hell.
They steal A LOT of stuff
Proof?
Anyways, even if we are talking about Satan from Christianity if STILL be on his side. God has killed MILLIONS supposedly, Satan has killed 10. As god was committing atrocities against humanity Satan stood up to him, the bully on the playground, for US and tried to stop him and was cast into hell for it. Seems like Satan likes us A ton more than god..
God didn't kill millions of people unlike Satan right now is telling people to go steal something, kill someone and doing all the horrible things you see on television. Have you watched television lately? Because to me their is nothing good on whenever I watch the news all I hear is how people are doing bad things or bad reports from the new reporters I haven't heard anything good lately.
God hasn't killed millions of people that is a lie. Satan has made people kill and do more things that God has done. Stop lying about the info.
God is still healing people and performing miracles and everyday someone turns to Jesus Christ. Is that not good to you? Oh wait I forgot you can't see all the good things God has been doing because Satan is the one who wants you to be away from God and wants you in hell no wonder your an atheist. ;)
Ok that's how you see Satan and that's your thing but this has nothing to do with Christianity.
By the way I am not in a religion a religion is man's way to get to God and Christianity is God's way to get to man. Man's way is filled with errors and flaws while as Christianity God knows more than every one else does.
It has a belief system, book, doctrine, organized church...it's a religion.
Actually we didn't take that name it was originated from Christianity because before Lucifer became Satan, he was an angel and the reason why he rebelled and went to hell is because he wanted to be like God and some of the people in heaven followed Lucifer causing God to throw them out of heaven and into the pit of hell.
Again, this is YOUR religions story. The name did NOT originate in Christianity. The gospels were written in hebrew, and in Hebrew Satan means enemy. However, Sanskrit, the written language PRECEDING Christianity has the word Satan meaning Truth. It also means the light and the morning star and signifies knowledge. This is historical fact. Old pagan satanism in it's most ancient form is believed to be humanities first organized religion. It evolved into ancient religions. For example Egypt. Horus was based off Satan. Christianity took that god and name and changed it in their own religion.
proof?
Mythra, Dionysus, Horus, and many more. All ancient god's that came before Jesus. What do they all have in common? They were born on the 25th or December, had 12 disciples, did miracles, were crucified, stayed dead for 3 days and rose on the third to heaven to be god's. It is very obvious that Christianity took these things. Also the holidays are on Pagan holidays. Jesus's birth on the 25th is the solstice. The 'mas' in christmas is a pagan root. Same with Easter. The spring, the time of natures rebirth and fertility. That's where the eggs and bunnies come from. One more: the story of noahs arc (where god kills millions) was stolen from the Sumarian story the Epic of Gilgamesh where a man puts 2 of every animal on a boat then the god floods the earth and they survive and repopulate. That enough proof?
god didn't kill millions of people
WHAT?! Noahs arc! He killed EVERYONE. before that in the OT he kills every 1st born in Egypt and orders cities to be sacked and people murdered! The only story that Satan directly kills people is the story of Job and Satan needed god's permission to do it! In the bible it says Satan can't do anything without god's consent so if Satan kills someone it was Gods command!!
Your not understanding what I am trying to say. A religion is made up of flaws, and errors. Christianity isn't a religion its a relationship with Jesus Christ because we pray to God and that is a way to communicate with God. I talk to God through prayer and God answers back.
Just like you and I are in a friendly relationship because we talk to each other but if I talk to a tree or a object that doesn't talk back then its a religion.
Wiccans think nature and their god and goddess "speak back". So do muslims, and the Greeks, and the ancient Egyptians and ALL cultures god's. You are such a bigot. What you basically said is, my god is real because I believe in him and everyone else is just stupid and fake. Your god does not literally speak audibly to you. I know that. You think he gives you signs and answers prayers but he doesn't. Eventually a prayer will go your way but that's balanced out by the hundreds that are NOT answered. You think some mystical force talks to you, you're A) schizophrenic and B) in a RELIGION.
Wiccans think nature and their god and goddess "speak back". So do muslims, and the Greeks, and the ancient Egyptians and ALL cultures god's. You are such a bigot. What you basically said is, my god is real because I believe in him and everyone else is just stupid and fake.
Buddists pray to Budda but Budda can't talk back because Budda is dead. Muslims pray to allah the moon god that doesn't help anyone or they pray to the prophet muhammad who is dead.
Its true my God is real and all others are fake. Yes God does speak to me everyday and I see it and I notice that it is from God. How can you say that God doesn't talk to me when you aren't in a relationship with Him or even a Christian?
You think he gives you signs and answers prayers but he doesn't. Eventually a prayer will go your way but that's balanced out by the hundreds that are NOT answered. You think some mystical force talks to you, you're A) schizophrenic and B) in a RELIGION.
He does give us signs and does answers prayers if you are a Christian your eyes will be opened and you will see what other Christians notice that prayers are answered. I asked God many things and He did answer them in both good and bad ways but still at least He communicated with me.
I pray everyday before I leave my house for school to help guide me at school and protect me from the evil one Satan and He does protect me from evil because I don't do evil at school I am probably one of the True Christians at my school because all of the other Christians at my school say their Christians but do totally opposite what the Bible says. I even pray before I go to bed to thank God for the day that I had whether it was good or bad and I also pray for people who dislike me like you and other people on here.
Buddists pray to Budda but Budda can't talk back because Budda is dead. Muslims pray to allah the moon god that doesn't help anyone or they pray to the prophet muhammad who is dead.
And christians pray to Jesus but HES dead! And no Allah is the same god you worship. You are being such a bigot. Saying other gods are fake and yours is for real. So all the other religious people are lying when they say their god really talks to them? You're a hipocrite. Everyone thinks their own deities speak to them. You're no different.
Its true my God is real and all others are fake. Yes God does speak to me everyday and I see it and I notice that it is from God. How can you say that God doesn't talk to me when you aren't in a relationship with Him or even a Christian?
WOW. You are so full of yourself it's incredible. You do realize that if you were not born in the place you were you could be a hindu, or a buddhist, or anything right? You would devoutly follow buddha or Allah without ever even taking a glance at christianity and believe that they talk to you just as you do now.
No god does not talk to you. I can say that because im not an idiot. Theres no evidence that he exists therfore he does not talk to you. I dont believe he talks to you, just as we both know schizophrenic people dont really talk to whatever they see.
I WAS A CHRISTIAN. For YEARS. Just as devoutly as you. No prayers were answered. No voices. No signs. In fact, it made me depressed to the point of contemplating suicide.
I know that any prayer you think is "answered" is coincidence because im not an idiot. Look up on youtube why prayers fail. Its because no matter the answer god cant lose. If he can say yes or no, WHY ASK? That just shows how things just happen. Understand?
And christians pray to Jesus but HES dead! And no Allah is the same god you worship. You are being such a bigot. Saying other gods are fake and yours is for real. So all the other religious people are lying when they say their god really talks to them? You're a hipocrite. Everyone thinks their own deities speak to them. You're no different.
No Jesus is alive and living today to this very moment. Also allah is not the same god I worship Christianity and Islam have many differences and let me point out to what it says in the Quran because I have studied the Islamic religion and its not even like Christianity what's so ever.
-It says in the Quran that Jesus never died on the cross for our sins and the whole thing was fake.
-They believe that Jesus came down fromt the cross to become a Muslim priest.
-They belive that in the end times when Jesus comes back that He will slaughter all of the Christians.
All of what I just said above are from the Quran and the Quran has nothing to do with Christianity or any part of it so you are wrong.
WOW. You are so full of yourself it's incredible. You do realize that if you were not born in the place you were you could be a hindu, or a buddhist, or anything right? You would devoutly follow buddha or Allah without ever even taking a glance at christianity and believe that they talk to you just as you do now
Yes I understand that if you are born into a buddists or a muslim family they want you to become a mulsim or a buddist.
No god does not talk to you. I can say that because im not an idiot. Theres no evidence that he exists therfore he does not talk to you. I dont believe he talks to you, just as we both know schizophrenic people dont really talk to whatever they see.
Yes God does talk to me and I see the results and I have a lot of faith that God will answer my prayer whether its going to be a good or bad answer.
I WAS A CHRISTIAN. For YEARS. Just as devoutly as you. No prayers were answered. No voices. No signs. In fact, it made me depressed to the point of contemplating suicide.
Well I think the reason why you didn't see the results is because you had little faith and you had doubt that God would not answer your prayers because I have a lot of faith and God answers my prayers but He doesn't answer right away.
I know that any prayer you think is "answered" is coincidence because im not an idiot. Look up on youtube why prayers fail. Its because no matter the answer god cant lose. If he can say yes or no, WHY ASK? That just shows how things just happen. Understand?
I don't need to look up youtube videos of how prayer fails because I know they don't fail and I have experienced that prayer does work its just you need to be in a relationship with Christ and have faith that God will answer them and not doubt.
I don't need false things to be put into my head but rather the Truth that I believe in.
No Jesus is alive and living today to this very moment.
Not in physical form. If he exists and the story is true (its not) than he is in heaven in an almost spirit form. Just as buddhists believe buddha is and Wiccans believe the god and goddess are.
All of what I just said above are from the Quran and the Quran has nothing to do with Christianity or any part of it so you are wrong.
I understand that the way the quran writes history is different. However, it is the same exact Judeo based God that your religion is all about. The things about jesus and prophets and whatever is different. This is true. But the God is the same.
Yes I understand that if you are born into a buddists or a muslim family they want you to become a mulsim or a buddist.
So if your way is the ONLY way, why do all of these other faiths exist? Why would this God who apparently uses christianity to get to people NOT contact others being indoctrinated into other religions that are wrong? Also, my point with that was is that just as easily that you were born into christianity, you couldve been born into 1 of any of the other hundreds of religions and follow them as devoutly as you do yours now without probably EVER finding christianity, and you would THINK that the god or goddess you worship would exist and speak to you just as you THINK that happens now.
Yes God does talk to me and I see the results and I have a lot of faith that God will answer my prayer whether its going to be a good or bad answer.
If god only answers those with strong faith then how do people with weaker faiths make it stronger? You dont just walk into a religion with complete full faith, everyone has doubts until theyre persuaded to have strong faith. Well if God doesnt talk to them or exhibit his existence then how do they get stronger?
This video explains my last point better than i can:
Not in physical form. If he exists and the story is true (its not) than he is in heaven in an almost spirit form. Just as buddhists believe buddha is and Wiccans believe the god and goddess are.
Well He was in physical form when He came down on this earth and we know this because there are records of Jesus being alive and performing miracles. Did you know that scholars found 25,000+ manuscripts from the NT? They even found archaeological digs from Israel that prove Jesus was alive during that time period.
I understand that the way the quran writes history is different. However, it is the same exact Judeo based God that your religion is all about. The things about jesus and prophets and whatever is different. This is true. But the God is the same.
Islam isn't based on the stuff we have yet some things they do but most of the things they got from is the Bible except the plagiarized a lot of things from the Bible and scientist actually examined that the Quran has scientific errors.
So if your way is the ONLY way, why do all of these other faiths exist? Why would this God who apparently uses christianity to get to people NOT contact others being indoctrinated into other religions that are wrong? Also, my point with that was is that just as easily that you were born into christianity, you couldve been born into 1 of any of the other hundreds of religions and follow them as devoutly as you do yours now without probably EVER finding christianity, and you would THINK that the god or goddess you worship would exist and speak to you just as you THINK that happens now.
The reason why all the other religions out there exist is because to distract other people from the true belief system that we as Christians have . Those people who created Buddism, Islam, and all the rest are wrong and the only one that is correct is Christianity.
If god only answers those with strong faith then how do people with weaker faiths make it stronger? You dont just walk into a religion with complete full faith, everyone has doubts until theyre persuaded to have strong faith. Well if God doesnt talk to them or exhibit his existence then how do they get stronger?
This video explains my last point better than i can:
Hold up I messed up on something no matter how much faith you have big or small faith God will still accept your prayers and for who you are. Well they find evidence that Jesus that Jesus existed and build a strong relationship with Christ.
The video is kind of flawed and let me tell you something. The reason why sometimes God doesn't answer prayers like how we want them to be answered is because its His will or not to answer that prayer and He wants us to be patient and wait because His timing is Heavenly Standard Time and its not like our time
Well He was in physical form when He came down on this earth and we know this because there are records of Jesus being alive and performing miracles.
He was in physical form, now he is not. Just like buddha, the pagan gods, zeus, ect. And weve been over this so many times ive lost count. The bible is not an accurate historical record. It is not proof of jesus doing mircales or even existing.
Did you know that scholars found 25,000+ manuscripts from the NT?
Cool they found really old bibles. This proves what exactly?
They even found archaeological digs from Israel that prove Jesus was alive during that time period
Cite this source please?
Islam isn't based on the stuff we have yet some things they do but most of the things they got from is the Bible except the plagiarized a lot of things from the Bible and scientist actually examined that the Quran has scientific errors.
1) Oh NOW we can trust science when it supports you but when it refutes you we ignore it? (evolution.
2) And the bible doesnt have errors??? It says the sun revolves around the earth. The earth is flat. Man came from dirt, and woman from a rib. Snakes talk. The world was flooded. and the list goes on. Id say these are some huge scientific errors.
The reason why all the other religions out there exist is because to distract other people from the true belief system that we as Christians have . Those people who created Buddism, Islam, and all the rest are wrong and the only one that is correct is Christianity.
Please tell me youre trolling me. Your religion isnt the first one! Buddhism and pagan religions came BEFORE yours! So they somehow looked into the future and saw christianity and thought of a plan to distract people is that it? Holy shit you are so full of yourself. Other religions exist because people in other cultures feel the need to invent a false deity that gives people an explaination of what they cant understand. Thats exactly why your religion was created too except then it was used to control people who were dumb enough to believe it.
Hold up I messed up
Yeah you did
no matter how much faith you have big or small faith God will still accept your prayers and for who you are. Well they find evidence that Jesus that Jesus existed and build a strong relationship with Christ.
Oh so now that i clearly refute your logic you just change it? You just re-refuted yourself because now i re-bring up my previous question: If i was christian why did i not establish a good relationship and why didnt god answer my prayers? You just said it yourself you dont need alot of faith.
The video is kind of flawed and let me tell you something. The reason why sometimes God doesn't answer prayers like how we want them to be answered is because its His will or not to answer that prayer and He wants us to be patient and wait because His timing is Heavenly Standard Time and its not like our time
So now theres heavenly time zones? Is there holy light savings time too? The whole video explained exactly that. When the prayer is not answered then its because things just didnt work out your way. What christians do tho is create the illusion that it is god saying "no" when really god didnt do anything. The milk jug can say "yes" and "no" just like god says "yes" or "no". Everything is up to chance. Christians make it so god cant lose no matter what the "answer" is. Understand?
I've just read through your debate with Srom, I can see what you were trying to get through to him but just wanted to point out that Buddha is not a false Deity, all Buddha means is enlightened one and there have been many Buddhas throughout history, Ghandi was Buddha not because he was a Buddhist (he was'nt he was a Hindu) but he was enlightened. Buddhist's dont pray to Buddha as one almighty Deity but to different Buddhas depending on the prayer and it is praying to the force that creates enlightenment using Buddha as a channel, it's a very complex religion, you might already know all this and might've just been trying to simplify things for your argument, if you do I apologize for butting in.
However, please do realize that there will be a time when you yourself will question your beliefs via other knowledge gained, experience, whatever.
Also, power to you and your beliefs in christianity.
I grew up in a christian home and now I do not call myself a "full-time christian", I'm not on the "fence", however my beliefs have become different as time went on, as far as my views the bible, christianity, and how I view other beliefs, how I view a world without a god, yet I still am a believer, just as you are; they've been refined and I've interpreted the whole ordeal completely; for better or worse.
My point is simple, keep to your guns, know that change will come to you, and embrace and brace yourself to what is to come. I only say this because I know what it's like to have been in your shoes, figuratively that is, with the philosophy and experience of christianity.
We did not choose to be alive, nor did we choose which belief system was to be ingrained into us.
As you get older and more mature (not that you're unwise or immature) your world will change and it is inevitable.
Srom I know we've had this conversation before and you believe that Christianity is the one true faith and all others are fake because the Bible says so. I'm not trying to say change your faith, if Christianity works for you great but you need to see the broader picture just because you believe you are right does not make the others wrong. When I was in China I prayed in a Buddhist temple that prayer has been answered, I could use this as proof that Buddhism is right and Christianity is wrong but I wont as I believe in freedom and it is possible that by praying in that temple might have subconiously put me in the right frame of mind to fix that problem in my life. None of us will know who's right or wrong until we die, my suggestion to you is to take a leaf out of Ghandi's book, he was a devout Hindu all his life but was accepting of all peoples beliefs and religions if you do this you might find you get more support from people who have a spiritual leaning in life but all the time you tell everyone who is'nt Christian they are wrong you wont get their support.
Perhaps it is a religion and it focuses more on the relationship with Jesus Christ, than it is other religions focus on the relationship with their X, Y, Z savior?
I am partially christian and I feel I've grown up in a household that was part of a religion.
I don't make fun of Christianity I respect it so I don't know where you and other people get the idea of me being an atheist you got it all wrong dude.
Good answer indeed. From the Bible, it is clear that Jesus healed many people that were either sick or possessed by evil spirits. Thus, for the Atheist, I'll pray for you all.. :)
Sin kills all, not only millions. Sin entered into the human race through deception, lies of the devil. Satan is to blame for all death in the entire universe, and He will get what He deserves finally and forever when death and Hell are thrown into the Lake of Fire, and the smoke of their torments will rise forever......
and at the sound of the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess to the glory of God, that Jesus Christ is LORD.......against his will, and against the will of people who thought they could deny their Creator's right to rule over them, they will bow and say Jesus is Lord, giving God the honor He deserves for creating them, and honoring God by serving their death sentence in Hell's fire, frying like eternal sausages forever, because God is good....and it's good to know evil will be confined and the wonder and beauty of God's creation will be fully revealed to those who love Him, and there will be no more death for the living, no more rebellion against God.......only the smoke of the torments of those who died in their rebellion will rise forever from the Lake of Fire as a testimonial of the Righteous One, Jesus, who is God who is good, who gave Himself in death to redeem all who will repent of their sins and believe on His resurrection before it's too late in the fire of Hell where it will be impossible for sinners to believe God is good because all they will know unwaveringly will be His wrath against sin, proven by the fire of Hell.
God created satan. God is omniscient. Therefore he knew everything satan was going to inflict upon the world before he did those things. Because God didnt stop them from happening or choose to make a different version of Satan that doesn't rebel, we can conclude that he intended satan to bring sin into the world. Which means god intended to bring sin into the world. Which means god is responsible for all death and suffering not satan.
When he's thrown into the fires of Hell? Why when? Why hasn't it already happened yet? God could do it any second he wants to. Does he not care?
"Frying like eternal sausages because God is good"
That's a literal fucking quote from you. Read it. Read it again. Read it a third time and tell me if that makes ANY fucking sense at all.
Do you think you are better than the devil, so you don't deserve to die NOW and do not deserve to burn in Hell NOW and FOREVER like the devil?
Your stuff is surely full of cursing as your heart curses God blaming Him for your miserable condition of dying when He is offering you a way out and you are spitting in His face and getting better than you deserve in this world, and what you really deserve in the next if you will not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. I know you hate God and you can't stop being foul, so I'm not going to read this stuff. You can be answered easily enough without wading through the mud you drag and sling. I hope you enjoy yourself while you can if you are not going to be saved from Hell, because this is as good as you'll ever have things.
You do this every time. You say "I'm not responding to you". Then you make a huge elaborate essay about how I'm going to hell and how you're not gonna respond to me but you KEEP RESPONDING. Either shut the fuck up and walk away with your tail between your legs like you SAY you're gonna do or actually respond to my fucking argument. Stop responding with the same essay about how you're not gonna respond to me. I use profanity. Either get the fuck over it or STOP RESPONDING. Don't continue to bitch about it because I don't fucking care what you want. I'm not censoring myself for you. Deal with it.
BTW I am better than the devil. Because I'm not a made up spooky monster to scare adults into behaving because they lack the mental maturity to handle reality. Now fuck off
Y'all do realize that as sinners, we all deserve to die now, right? Every moment of time outside of Hell is a gift from God we do not deserve and cannot earn. Ya'll see the plain simple truth of reality, right?
1) I don't believe sin exists. I don't accept the concept of sinning.
2) plain simple truth? The plain simple truth is that there is no God. There is no hell. There is no devil. And there is no sin. We're just one species on some random planet in some random corner of the universe. Our actions only have consequences in relation to eachother. We should do good because it benefits us and others and we should avoid that which harms us and others. That is the simple reality. Your complicated mythological nonsense is not simple in the slightest as you constantly need to justify why it makes no fucking sense and doesn't line up with what we observe in reality at all.
Are you dense? Maybe you can comprehend simple facts......probably not because you love being a pervert.
hahaha, pervert.....hahaha
Y'all do realize that as sinners, we all deserve to die now, right? Every moment of time outside of Hell is a gift from God we do not deserve and cannot earn. Ya'll see the plain simple truth of reality, right?
Pervert? Where did that come from? Do you just throw insults around with zero merit?
How am I a pervert when you're the one who wants to suck a magic man's cock for all eternity? I'm the one saying I don't wanna suck god cock. So enjoy that fat meaty dick in your throat your big Ole faggot
first of all ozzy ozbourn is the prince of darkness and second satanism is about looking after yourself and getting self respect christainity is about getting on your knees alot witch is kinda gay. paganism was around before christanity adn satanism is based around paganism without the killing of people or animals before you try adn debate try reading into things and you would find out that the bible is about murder, rape and people getting killed for not beliving in what you do and think about it if god was real then why are people dying of aids and why are people homeless jesus my friend is a made up person who people turned to when there life is in the shit
You are believing lies from Hell, paganism is based on lies from Hell penned by people and promoted to feel power by making followers. The lies you are following will take you to Hell where you will fry like an eternal sausage if before your dying is finalized here, you will not repent of your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who created you, then plunged into death for you, paid for your sins, to save you from your sins, and is risen from the dead offering you forgiveness and eternal life if you will believe on Him and receive Him as your Savior.
You will probably be like most pagans, continuing in your pride and loving your sin more than life until you find yourself unable to get out of the fire of Hell where you will be frying like eternal sausage......I hope I'm wrong and you get saved, but I doubt that you will.
I agree, Satan is the father of lies and has no love in him. Only JESUS CHRIST CAN SAVE!!! I REBUKE AND BIND ALL DEMONS ON HERE IN JESUS NAME!!! SALVATION BELONGS TO OUR GOD WHO SITS ON THE THRONE AND TO THE LAMB :D
you cant' rebuke and bind them when people are giving them the authority in their lives. You have to try to reach the people with the truth. Demons who bother you can be dealt with by you. Demons invited by other people in their lives have authority from those people. God allows this in His mercy giving the people time to be saved from Hell. You have to try to reach the individual with the truth.
Jesus, neither! Any superstitious beliefs that say " No, this is how everything works, and this is how you should lead your life, your other belief is wrong" is completely immoral. yes the whole Satanism thing is slightly better because it is more philosophical, but worshiping any deity and believing in an eternal after life, or any more cough bollockscough. Stop with the DAMNED RELIGIONS!
They will one day go away, unless we manage to end ourselves first. In the archives as part of history they won't, probably.
nor are the curiousity of mankind and its desire to believe in X, Y, Z god
I'm part of mankind and I have no desire to believe in some imaginary friends. Curiosity is good, but being credulous and incapable of differentiating fantasy and reality is bad.
What are the differences of Harry Potter (etc.) and the bible, or any other religious book? Plot, style, characters, etc. aside, nothing - all are lies. But what makes them different is the fact that religious texts claim themselves to be of reality, they claim themselves to be true. That is wrong and extremely stupid.
Have you tried creating fantasy stories? I have, it is very easy.
Make up a story, claim it to be true, spread the word, find idiots who'll believe you and a new religion is born. That simple. And nothing positive to mankind about it. Yet just that was done thousands of years ago, to this day and onward. But not for forever, religions are in decline, in more advanced countries anyway.
I was expecting something like this. After all, you are a religious person who likes denying reality, as is obvious.
You think google has the answers to the mankind age questions of life? I think not nummi.
What is google? A search engine. What is a search engine used for? To find desired or wanted material. I typed in what I wanted to find and I found articles on that subject. And what makes it even better, they actually reflect the real world - religion is fading and atheism is growing. So, yeah, a very stupid reply from you.
Try again, do not mass go, do NOT collect 200 dollars.
You try again 'cause you've given me nothing worth even a single dime.
These articles are useless, they're mumble jumbo bs survey vague shit, crap. This is what these surveys are nummi. They mean nothing.
This shows how fucked up your mind is. I've encounter people like you before; your arguments reflect the same - delusions and stupidity.
Go ahead, deny reality as you will, with all your strength. You know what good it will do? None, reality will stay the same however strongly you wish it didn't.
The ones that only exist in your mind, not in the real world.
science of religion
As in that people can come up with such nonsense and claim it as real. That is the only scientific part of religion, as religion itself is no more real than is Harry Potter, Twilight, or any other fantasy work. Is there a science of Harry Potter, of Twilight, etc? No.
The inevitable? What are you referring to with that?
My mind is wrapped tightly around reality and I live within it day in and day out.
Oh really? Then you should know that religion is bullshit, yet you claim it to be true. Your mind is adamantly wrapped around and in delusions. I hope I'm wrong with the adamant part, if I'm not you're a lost cause.
What planet are you from?
You wouldn't know how to pronounce it... But presently I'm located on Earth.
Noticed another thing... you asked for examples and I gave some. And then to that you say "You think google has the answers to the mankind age questions of life?" Wtf???
You asked, I answered and then this stupid question of yours that has nothing to do with my answer to your request for examples.
But go ahead, ask me those questions of life and I'll gladly answer them, with simple logic. No google needed.
I asked you to give examples of how religion is in decline, and you googled some articles that had surveys in them stating religion is in decline.
Are you not noticing what I beg to differ on?
Here's simple logic for you:
A. These articles show nothing and are poor examples of how religion is in decline.
B. You googled articles that showed nothing to answer the "how is religion in decline"
Point? Articles do not prove the "how" in "how are religions in decline" Perhaps find better and more evidence and then we'll talk. Until then, I call bull shit.
you googled some articles that had surveys in them stating religion is in decline.
That is exactly what you asked. Examples. I gave you exactly that.
Are you not noticing what I beg to differ on?
I honestly don't 'cause there is nothing to differ on. You asked, I provided. You denied, as was expected. The end. And now you are doing what? Just fussing around worthlessly.
Here's simple logic for you:
Here's some of my simple logic - you are delusional and on top of that stupid also (arguing with theists, so far it has ended up with the same conclusions, every time). Explains very well why you are doing what you're doing.
A. These articles show nothing and are poor examples of how religion is in decline.
B. You googled articles that showed nothing to answer the "how is religion in decline"
How? You mean what causes it? A couple of examples of what causes it? Wtf??? You must be very stupid if you can't come up with an answer for that on your own.
Humanity is finding out more and more of how our real world actually works. Humanity is becoming smarter and because of that sees how stupid religion is. That is why, the only fucking "example".
Point? Articles do not prove the "how" in "how are religions in decline" Perhaps find better and more evidence and then we'll talk. Until then, I call bull shit.
Yup. You are also stupid and ignorant on top of that. If you debate on the internet then articles are part of proving something, or refuting something, assuming they are credible. The articles reflect surveys that have been carried out in the real world, the articles are basically conclusions of those surveys. They are the only fucking evidence you will get. If you do not accept them then what are you doing here? Because if you do not accept them you will not accept anything that proves you wrong.
You are so full of shit, I bet you can even taste it. You like it? It's not chocolate (not anymore), assuming you didn't know.
Since you believe a couple random articles are evidence of religion being in decline, i can assume you believe in something with little to no evidence because you feel science is the answer to all when I believe science and religion is a more better way of finding the "truth" than one or the other. Why should I believe in these articles? What do they provide? A couple numbers and wannabe stats? I don't not accept it because I can't accept that I'm wrong, however you provide no information to me or to the world that religion is in decline. What evidence do you have? Where is it? On a couple articles you found online? Cmon man, and then you call me ignorant just like most atheists on this site, and you say I'm full of shit?
Articles such as the ones you provided are not evidence.
Not all articles are bs, of course however your providing are not evidence, just mumbo jumbo surveys. Come up with something better if you can.
I know religion is not in decline because fucking earth is populated with people, and people have curiosity, and as long as curiosity is established, religion and/or the belief in X, Y, Z will continue to exist, without your so-called claims if it declining.
Since you believe a couple random articles are evidence of religion being in decline, i can assume you believe in something with little to no evidence because you feel science is the answer to all when I believe science and religion is a more better way of finding the "truth" than one or the other.
A couple random articles that reflect reality? Oh yes, they are evidence. I knew how things are in the real world before searching out those articles. They only confirmed what I already knew. I knew it because it is logical.
I believe in nothing. I know or don't know, and I do not claim to know what I don't know.
Science and religion are basically opposites. It is impossible for them to work together.
Why should I believe in these articles?
I don't believe, why should you? Simply take them as they are - a reflection of reality. Knowledge that accords present times.
What do they provide?
A picture of the state of religion and atheism.
A couple numbers and wannabe stats?
Numbers that come from surveys, done by people, and put together to get an idea of what is going on.
I don't not accept it because I can't accept that I'm wrong, however you provide no information to me or to the world that religion is in decline.
You can't accept that you are wrong? Severe mental issues apparently.
I provided you information that religion is in decline. How stupid can you be?
On a couple articles you found online? Cmon man, and then you call me ignorant just like most atheists on this site, and you say I'm full of shit?
I explained why credible articles can be used as evidence. You are ignorant and full of shit, not because I like to call you that but because you actually are. It is knowledge - that you are ignorant, stupid, and delusion - "full of shit".
Articles such as the ones you provided are not evidence.
Yes they are. If you don't accept them you don't accept any evidence that proves you wrong.
Not all articles are bs,
You mean the articles made by religious people who are also full of shit? Yeah, right...
of course however your providing are not evidence, just mumbo jumbo surveys. Come up with something better if you can.
They are evidence. You asked for examples and I provided examples. Instead of this worthless fussing, prove me wrong. Can you do that? No you can't, because that would require altering reality - something you cannot do.
I know religion is not in decline because fucking earth is populated with people
I explained, gave evidence, yet you keep denying and avoiding all of it. Good job.
and people have curiosity, and as long as curiosity is established, religion and/or the belief in X, Y, Z will continue to exist,
Curiosity will always be there, how else could science advance? Curiosity is not about making things up.
Long ago there were questions but no answers, people were also very stupid. So they made things up from superstition, to explain them. But now we know better, although you and many others don't and that's the problem.
Religion will die. It is inevitable. It is in the future of humanity. Whether you like it or not, doesn't matter. Just because you want or like something doesn't mean it is so or you will get it. The world doesn't bend upon your wishes.
I see the world as it is. Why don't you do the same?
So it seems we both see the world as it is and yet we've got different view points, as it should be and is normal.
Imagine a world where everyone believed in the same thing, all the time? I think that would be boring and unproductive.
My point is that as much as I believe indifference is natural, not necessarily necessary for mankind, I believe balance is key to mankind's success. There's a difference between balance and "everybody believes in the same thing, all the time". Do you see the difference?
I understand these articles have value, you're a living breathing example and evidence for that, and I'm a living breathing example and evidence for how I believe in a god.
The articles however, are not evidence for "how has religion declined", they're merely experiments giving X, Y, Z statistics that which have little to no value on how and why religions are in decline.
Just because people who take a survey say "oh i dont go to church", or "oh im not religious" does NOT mean that these same people don't believe in a higher power or not. I say, fine, if religion is in decline, let that be. However the more important fact here is that belief in X, Y, Z god is not the same as "religion" or the "religious". See the difference?
Are you putting money on the fact that simply "religion is in decline"? Or are you stating that "people believing in X, Y, Z god is in decline"?
So it seems we both see the world as it is and yet we've got different view points, as it should be and is normal.
Wrong. You see it as you want to see it, not as it is.
Imagine a world where everyone believed in the same thing, all the time? I think that would be boring and unproductive.
People will always have different opinions on subjects but religion is and will always be nonsense that does no good. There aren't just two kinds of people. If there was no religion human world would be much more productive.
I believe balance is key to mankind's success.
Balance? Very stupid again. Not balance but peace, more or less, peace to do what is necessary without some idiots denying reality and wanting to stop those who don't, and no hindering factors like religion. Religious and nonreligious are not some forces - religion is made up, there would be "balance" if religion didn't exist, as everyone is born nonreligious.
There's a difference between balance and "everybody believes in the same thing, all the time". Do you see the difference?
No, I don't see the difference, because you got it all wrong. "Believing in", you should really define what you mean by that 'cause there are limited definitions that apply to most nonreligious.
I understand these articles have value, you're a living breathing example and evidence for that,
Wrong again. They have value because they reflect reality, not because of me.
and I'm a living breathing example and evidence for how I believe in a god.
Believing something does not make it real. The whole universe and everything in it is evidence of that.
The articles however, are not evidence for "how has religion declined", they're merely experiments giving X, Y, Z statistics that which have little to no value on how and why religions are in decline.
Surveys are evidence. Those articles reflect those surveys. They are evidence. You are simply incapable of accepting the truth because the truth would hurt far too much. Just face it, you are dead wrong.
Plus I explained why religion is in decline with simple logic.
Just because people who take a survey say "oh i dont go to church", or "oh im not religious" does NOT mean that these same people don't believe in a higher power or not.
So you think everyone is lying? Paranoia?
It's just so stupid. Of course some people will lie about some things, or will change their opinions right after but that is a very small percentage and the surveys include thousands and even millions, making that little percentage pretty much meaningless.
However the more important fact here is that belief in X, Y, Z god is not the same as "religion" or the "religious".
There are very few theists who aren't religious. Where did theism come from? Religion. The most important fact is that religion is slowly dying.
Are you putting money on the fact that simply "religion is in decline"? Or are you stating that "people believing in X, Y, Z god is in decline"?
Essentially they mean the same thing. The concept of god and religion are directly connected. Both are in decline.
Theres a fucking difference.
There really is not a fucking difference. Believing in a god and religion are both going away, slowly.
Religions aren't going away nummi. This is inevitable. This is the way it is. Religion, and/or the spiritual quest to believe in a higher power is natural, it is natural to our DNA to who and how we humans are. The only way for religion, or rather, the faith in an X, Y, Z god, is for mankind to be completely destroyed by X, Y, Z force. Only then will religion begin to seize to exist. Get that in your head.
Not within our lifetimes. But they will go away one day, long from now. It is inevitable.
Religion, and/or the spiritual quest to believe in a higher power is natural, it is natural to our DNA to who and how we humans are.
It is not natural. If it was then why don't I have it? Being mentally fucked up is not part of our DNA. Everyone is born neutral, everyone is born non-religious. It's indoctrination and brainwashing since birth that makes people religious and makes them believe and want to believe in made up crap.
Long ago people were curious and since they couldn't find out how things really worked they made up stories and took that as reality, and unfortunately, even as we have science telling all of it is false, stupid people like you still take that same thousands of years old crap as reality. One generation raises the next, teaching them the same and so it has been for thousands of years, luckily that process is slowly coming to a stop.
Your DNA thing, if you went to meet real geneticists and told them that same thing they would laugh their asses off.
The only way for religion, or rather, the faith in an X, Y, Z god, is for mankind to be completely destroyed by X, Y, Z force. Only then will religion begin to seize to exist.
You did notice up there where I said that religion will go away from the public but it will remain in archives as part of history?
I'll give you a scenario where religion would be gone, not a single trace left. In the future, centuries, perhaps even a millennium, from now when humanity is much much smarter than currently. All religious articles, items, books, etc., burned to dust, destroyed, disintegrated. All traces from all texts and places erased. People would be told or forced to stop talking about it, stopped from spreading the word, if not then death. Now several generations later no one would know such a thing as religion even existed. There ya go. As you should be able to see, mankind would not need be destroyed.
Religion is slowly fading away. It is not just inevitable, it is already, even this very moment, happening. Religion will one day be gone.
dude satanism doesnt even worship an external god...
And they dont necessarily all believe in an afterlife either, just some of them....
and besides the afterlife could just be the continuation of life, not some fabled imaginary paradise...
Religion is important, you may not think it is but if you look around the world its a major part of every culture not because people are brainwashed fools but because they need answers, and if the "god" that they talk to is actually their subconscious/higher conscious, then who cares?
:) I never said it wasn't important of curse it is, without it, much of what we see today wouldn't be the same. But again, what the hell! I said no after life, i don't care how you invision it, once you die that's it, your brain dies, your body rots, the world keeps turning, other people are born who will think the same things you do, they will die, then the world will be eaten by the sun, and at some point or another time will stop ( It's easier understanding the end of time, then understanding forever). I'm not pessimistic, i'm realistic. I realise the world will end, that I will die along with everyone else alive at this moment, but i'm not saying that as a bad thing. Well, not really a good thing either, but that's how life goes! There is no higher being, living in Hell or Heaven, and once you die, that's it.
i dont think time ending is easier to understand than infinite, not in my mind at least....
infinite is so easy to understand, because then there is no beginning or end, youre saying that there will be no more big bangs/big crunches? if time ends, or even in the beginning, before the big bang, you say time didnt exist, which is illogical because when you think about it that would mean an eternity passed before the big bang came into being...
Hang on, it was my understand you were a Christian, meaning Evolution was out of the question? Never mind! Anyway you can go on rambling aimlessly about evolution and the big bang, which consequently is of no current relevance, as appose to what I was saying which was relevant as I had a point to it. The point being, there is no God, no heaven or hell, no afterlife what so ever, and the sooner you all realise this the better.
The point being, there is no God, no heaven or hell, no afterlife what so ever
do you have proof of this? because theres about 10,000 years worth of evidence claiming that there is some sort of continuation of life in EVERY SINGLE CULTURE
Oooh, 10,000 years? That sounds much older than the earth... Hahaha funny thing you're actually serious. Listen, you have less evidence than we certainly have! In fact this evidence for there being a God is 0! We have indisputable evidence of the earths age, of evolution, and that water does not magically turn to wine! And would you mind giving me some examples of these continuations, because what you're trying to back up is the fact that a species will last forever. Which, is impossibru! Firstly, come show me these continuations, no matter how old. Then show me if they are still alive today. Then show me your proof that they will last forever. You do all this, maybe i'll stop laughing so much. Life on this earth cannot possibly go on forever. There is a chance mankind will populate mars, or some other fantasy like that, but that will only prolong mankind's existence. IT WILL NOT LAST FOREVER! But again, what does the continuation of life have to do with anything?!
i never claimed the earth was 6000 years old or any of that hubbub, and i never claimed life on EARTH will last forever, im claiming life in the UNIVERSE(s) including all of the dimensions and different realities, will continue forever.
The egyptians believed strongly that our soul could leave our body while we were sleeping they even have hieroglyphics of this showing it, and what do we have today that we have had since the beginning of time? the phenomenon known as astral projection.
Its quite simple to understand how we came across this: In our early ages, we were focused solely on survival, i guarantee you, just out of common sense, that when we got tired back in the old old old days, we didnt just fall asleep, that would cause us to get killed in a heartbeat, no, i bet you that when we went to sleep we stayed consciously awake during the entire time so as to stay alert to any danger arond us which subsequently led us into discovering different realms of existence and, what we refer to as "god"
I agree with your statement. Religion is a foolish concept that should be gotten rid of. It has served its time, but now is the Age of Aquarius, the Death of Christ and faith, and the push to the future.
However, some of us Satanists are atheistic Satanists, and are not so much as believers of a deity, as practitioners of a certain philosophy, like Buddhism. While I myself disagree with the teachings of Buddha (survival of the fittest bub), I do not think you or I have the right to tell them to stop following that philosophy, if they are not dedicating their lives to an imaginary deity.
Christianity since it gives us peace of mind. Satanism encourages unrest and encourages chaos in humanity.
Christianity and Satanism are contrasting poles. For an example Purity and Sultry. Who would you rather wed a virgin or a slut?
Where would you rather write in the light or in the dark?
How would you like to be treated by your children good or bad?
The two beliefs are contrasting and have different methods to appease followers. Satanism is like eat now pay later. But once you have eaten, you will have to pay... forever. Why? It is because Satanism does not promise salvation. Christianity is the opposite. Pay now and sacrifice the things you hold dear, then eat and live forever.
The problem is, when you make a deal with the devil, you NEVER win. There is always something written in the fine print of the contract that will make you regret your choice. When demons appear it causes chaos and disbelief. When angels appear miracles happen. I am not saying this because I have solid proof but based on the information that is presumed to be their attitude then yes angels are better. Christianity is a belief for those who are patient and are willing to sacrifice the things they hold dear. It is no religion for those who look only for themselves.
Let us look in a family scenario. Satanism encourages selfishness so if there came a fire you must save yourself first and then your offspring and spouse so in the end you are the loser. But in Christian context you must save your family first so if you die in the process, your children will live on.
Tell me those who chose the selfishness, would you be able to take the guilt of seeing your family die just because your religion told you to?
Choosing Christianity is an easy choice between the two since it promises salvation.
A story resembling a deal with the devil is synonymous to the story of Adam and Eve in which man lost his immortality and wisdom meaning that story indicates the loss of something good from man. We have no solid evidence in the story but basing from a devil`s natural tendencies from previous known premonitions then it would be unethical to make a deal with them due to their unpredictable tendencies.
Another example would be the various spiritual incantations in which devils are called to do the bidding of man. It may be done in urban or rural places. An example of the method may be the use of ouija boards that would call spirits to answer questions but having a drawback of possession to a human host. Therefore it would be a risky ordeal.
story of Adam and Eve in which man lost his immortality and wisdom
Actually (in the myth; I don't believe any of this) we gained wisdom when we ate from the Tree of Knowledge, or of Good and Evil. Or, at least, we were supposed to gain knowledge of good and evil. But we don't quite seem to have it as a species from what I can see. Perhaps god gypped us.
And the loss of our immortality was actually gods punishment for the natural curiosity and desire for knowledge he programmed us to have. We wanted for and obtained knowledge, and for that - our very, very first mistake - god threw us out of paradise and put a curse on all of humanity forever. Not only is this god obviously opposed to the idea of the enlightenment of humanity, he also clearly prone to overreacting and dealing out harsh and unfair punishments, like infinite torture for finite crimes. So the question naturally follows, why would you revere and worship a malevolent entity like this, and not seek to rebel against and usurp it as we would any violent, tyrannical despot?
I believe it was a test. We were indeed in a haven of happiness and everything we need was right in our reach. Then the test was obedience to his orders. For an example, a master and pet relationship. Even though it may be a minor mistake for the pet, lets say sleeping in the couch, the master gets mad and reprimands the dog. Our crime may be light in our perspective but to him, well its a different story.
We were the created to take care of his creations and to enjoy happiness with him. Everything we needed was there so why change that? We were just being tested to obey god`s orders but we lost due to the devil`s interventions. We followed the devil over him. Now back to the first example. Your dog slept on the couch because another person told him to even though you already told it not to sleep there. It not only disobeyed you, but betrayed you by following someone else. It may seem light to the dog, but your feelings as the master would be different. Same as our scenario.
But let us not focus on the dark side of things. We were banished from paradise and allowed to feel suffering, but with those sufferings and hardships. We become stronger and we appreciate very moment of happiness that we feel. How can you be happy if you have never been sad? How can you feel safety if you haven`t been through danger? How can you enjoy victory if you haven`t felt defeat?
Every move that God makes has a purpose. It is not our place to judge him for his actions.
Then it was a fiendish and unfair test, because acting in accordance with our nature as human beings (the nature god gave us) led to failing the test and the resulting punishments.
Even though it may be a minor mistake for the pet, lets say sleeping in the couch, the master gets mad and reprimands the dog.
This analogy would work, except in that situation the master would yank the dogs chain, or whack him with a newspaper. There isn't really any justifiable way to punish a dog on par with throwing an entire species out of paradise and cursing all future generations of that species. Training your dog is not comparable to the damnation of humankind.
Everything we needed was there so why change that?
Interestingly enough, I didn't actually do anything, I didn't endeavor to change our situation or get our species thrown out of paradise. In accordance with your scripture, it seems god is trying to frame me for the perceived crimes of a pair of illiterate, uneducated nudists - the first human beings, no less. I was not given the ability to choose. I was not given my own tree/snake/apple scenario. I (apparently) simply bare the crimes of my forefathers; the curse of being born a human. So I don't know "why change that" because I didn't have a damn thing to do with it, and neither did you or anyone in history save two people.
It not only disobeyed you, but betrayed you by following someone else. It may seem light to the dog, but your feelings as the master would be different. Same as our scenario.
My cat sometimes hops off my lap to go hang out with and be pet by other people. I might call this a betrayal. I would not react by infinitely shortening my cats lifespan and banishing him from the house. That would be a gross overreaction; animal abuse. I think that's about on par with gods reaction in Genesis, but this paints him as a cruel, unjust tyrant, not a loving savior.
But let us not focus on the dark side of things.
We're talking about Christianity; it would be hard to avoid talking about the dark side of things when the religion we're discussing encompasses some of the most self-destructive, hateful, and disgusting ideas in human history.
We were banished from paradise and allowed to feel suffering, but with those sufferings and hardships. We become stronger and we appreciate very moment of happiness that we feel.
I'm not concerned with the Problem of Evil. I understand that suffering can be beneficial, and I wouldn't be eager for humanity to return to a care-free paradise. Why I have a (rather large) problem with is the curse of damnation god bestowed upon humanity as a result of our transition to being able to suffer. The idea that because of original sin, because of a single mistake made by a pair of primitive savages thousands of years ago, every human is born in debt to god, a debt that can only be repaid by dying in service and submission to him, is a shameful and appalling one.
It is not our place to judge him for his actions.
Why not? If your father if a whoring, gambling, low-life, abusive alcoholic, you wouldn't abstain from judging him as such just because he is your father. Particularly if you were the subject of his wrath as often as humanity was the subject of gods.
Then again, you do have a point that it was probably a bit too much. But Adam and Eve aren't the only ones to be blamed but the devil as well. If he had not intervened with God`s orders, the 2 would`t have eaten the fruit.
As for the dog analogy, the sin was committed on a celestial scale meaning a deal has been done with the devil. By following the devil, they offered themselves and opened themselves to the consequences of their curiosity. As what I have said in my previous posts, once you have made a deal with the devil, you always lose. That scenario gave us inadvertently to the devil, in some way whatsoever that is why God reacted as such. Then again it was our fault in the first place. Due to their curiosity , sin entered the world. How? For an example, you are curious about the feeling of sex. You were taught that you should refrain from sex until you have a job and can sustain a family. Due to your curiosity, you end up having sex as a student. You felt the pleasure and the knowledge of the experience. But in the end you got the girl pregnant. Thus the consequence would be that you will have to work at a very young age to sustain your family, and your child will also carry the burden since his father is not prepared to take care of him. So it is a chain reaction, resulting from a single mistake because of curiosity.
But through our curiosity we would have to pay for it. Who creates suffering other than humans? Mostly, its our fault why we suffer. But God always plans for us. When he destroyed all sinners, he still had hope for humanity in the likeness of Noah. If he was such a cruel god, then he would`t have left anyone alive. So why let our race live? It is because he still plans for our salvation. He offered his only son to save us. Jesus, that we may be able to go to paradise with him once more. Don`t ask me to prove it though since we still don`t have any hard evidences, but relating to the story, it is his response to the sin.
What I said about not judging him was that there are actions of him which we do not fully understand. For an example in the story of Abraham. Whom he asked Abraham to offer his son Isaac to him, only testing his faith and thus rewards Abraham as the father of all nations. Thus his actions may be questionable at times but still proves his integrity.
But Adam and Eve aren't the only ones to be blamed but the devil as well. If he had not intervened with God`s orders, the 2 would`t have eaten the fruit.
You're trying to pin this all on the devil but you admit that the devil was acting under gods orders. So it's actually gods fault, when we get down to it. Kind of like most Nazis were just following orders; the Holocaust was Hitler's fault.
Then again it was our fault in the first place. Due to their curiosity , sin entered the world. How?
Good question. First of all I would like to point out that you are alternating back and forth between "them" ("their curiosity;" Adam and Eve), and "us" ("our fault;" the fault of humanity). I brought this up before, but these are not the same thing. The "crimes" of two nudists thousands of years ago are not our crimes.
Secondly, who programmed them with their natural curiosity? Who made them as curious as they were, and then invented a test for that curiosity he knew they would fail, and then put them to the test he knew they would fail with the wages being immortality and paradise? God. Not the devil, not Adam and Eve, not humanity, god. This is gods problem, gods fault; it's between him and Adam and Eve and a talking snake and I refuse to feel shame for the actions of any of the four.
You were taught that you should refrain from sex until you have a job and can sustain a family
This example doesn't work because sex doesn't always = a baby. So curiosity about sex doesn't always lead to unwelcome consequences. The natural curiosity of Adam and Eve had a 100% fail rate in gods test. They we're damned for their curiosity before they were even curious.
Also, I wasn't taught that about sex at all. Not entirely relevant, but still. I was taught to wait to have baby until I was financially secure, but a baby isn't the same thing as sex. Otherwise I would have lots and lots of babies.
But through our curiosity we would have to pay for it.
But god gave them the curiosity he is punishing them for in the first place.
If he was such a cruel god, then he would`t have left anyone alive. So why let our race live?
If everyone was dead there would be nobody left torture or terrorize. You don't know the mind of god. You have to at least admit that it's possible, if god is in fact cruel and not loving, that he likes the suffering and misery he sees here on earth, and that's why it exists and continues.
He offered his only son to save us. Jesus, that we may be able to go to paradise with him once more.
One human sacrifice in illiterate parts of the Middle East a few thousand years ago makes you feel comfortable about the status of your eternal soul? Also, you left out the part about groveling in worship and submission; that's also and essential part of gaining paradise with god.
What I said about not judging him was that there are actions of him which we do not fully understand.
I love how Christians do this. They can go on and on explaining the mind of god to me, but once I get to some of the morally questionable things god does all of a sudden they say "god acts in mysterious ways." But you can't have it both ways. You can either know and comprehend the mind of god (and, indeed, deliver judgement upon what you know, as you did in your first three paragraphs), in which case you need to understand and judge the morally reprehensible things as such, or you cant understand the mind of god which means you need to stop pretending you understand all the good bits.
Whom he asked Abraham to offer his son Isaac to him, only testing his faith and thus rewards Abraham as the father of all nations.
If you ignore the trauma Isaac suffered, cowering in fear as his loving father hovers over him with a knife, ready to slit his throat, urged on by a booming, otherworldly voice. And if you ignore the obvious moral paradox, that something immoral (murdering your son in cold blood) becomes moral simply because god commanded it. And if you ignore the severe mental dementia needed to be prepared to kill your son because you think you hear voices telling you to do so.
If you ignore all these things, sure, gods still god some integrity.
Fucking bastard, you want me to ruin my life for some bullshit belief system that grants me immortality?
You ever heard of the statement "Too good to be true"?
Yeah, you're full of shit. You bought into a bad deal and now you are so "faithful" to it that you try to dupe others as well.
You have no idea what you even believe, right? Have you even read the entire Bible from page 1 to the end?
If you have, what did you think of it? Did you think Ezekiel's visions sounded like a bad acid trip, rather than actually seeing a god? What about Jesus walking on water? You think he actually did it or do you think it was just a low tide?
What about when Judas died twice? Didn't that strike you as odd?
But the biggest problem with you is that you are asking us to gamble away our lives on what you believe. I can't know if you're correct or not, and you have no way to prove it, unless you dose me with a shitton of acid.
You're basically telling me to receive my gift after I pay... after I'm dead.
That's bullshit and you know it. Only a fool would buy into Christianity.
Calm down. This is an intellectual argument. I am just defending my side. Therefore there is no need for foul language. Do you have much knowledge about Christianity as to deny its existence, It may be possible that you grew up in an environment contrary to its ideologies which is why you deny the said religion.
Obviously the Bible speaks using symbols and should not be taken literally. From your point of view it may seem stupid. But having a religion not only benefits the organization itself but an individual state of mind. Religion gives inner peace and self principles to the believer one that cannot be understood by a non-believer. I am not asking you to change your beliefs since I am sure you have though of them very carefully.
When one denies a concept, does one literally know much about that concept or he just does not want to accept such and denies it. Christianity may seem too good to be true as you say and you have a point in doing so. But it does not exactly revolve around miracles and divine providence. It somewhat teaches human beings in forming a just society. But there are still mistakes committed by the church. Nonetheless even if it seems to look as a huge gamble, I believe it is till worth it for there is no harm in trying.
I am not asking you to believe or not. Its your life anyway. Do what you want. As mere mortals, its our choices who define who we are. The question is, after you have made that choice, will you be a better person and benefit the world?
Yes, I know quite a bit about Christianity. It's quite well known that despite you taking this 'higher ground" of peace and purity, the truth is that Christianity is and always has been a corrupted entity.
And about the Bible. I'm pretty sure calling some of my friends "abominations" isn't very symbolic.
Nor is it fair to women. In fact, I will go ahead and call you out on your shit again: The Bible is a wicked and horrible book of oppression and lies and no matter how you coat it, it's a deal with the devil if you sign up and believe that stuff.
And yes, I was once Christian. I once wanted to be a priest. I had my faith, but then I lost it. How? Only with careful study and dedication. There was no anger or rejection. It simply realized it was false, and almost right away I realized what a mind controlling and insane and evil system it is.
How you fail to realize that it's all lies and oppressive, violent hatred spawning crap seems astounding, but indoctrination is strong.
I'm sure you know it's bullshit. You can't really think that in this world, magic and the supernatural is ACTUALLY real, right? Not real enough to bring it into government and the lives of those not interested. But you do anyways.
Yes I myself know that there are wickedness and corruption inside the church. The reason being so is that its leaders always move with their own interests.
For an example, there is this third world country having problems in population and has passed a reproductive health law in which promotes the use of contraceptives. The church denies the law even though it is for the good of the state. As you must know, every community commits mistakes but that mistake does not necessarily reflect that part to the whole. For an example a student in a school is a cheater, one must not conclude every student in the school as a cheater. Same goes for the church. One Christian or many Christians` mistakes does not reflect the whole religion.
As for the Bible, it is described as an infallible faith book. It was also written in by multiple authors which is why it is already complete and irrevocable. During the time it was written, the culture then was very different from ours. They were narrow minded and were easily tempted to commit crime. But they were strict followers of the law and as such discriminates anyone who disobeys it. People tend to have fear of the unknown which is why atrocities were committed to non-believers. During that time as well, women were treated of lower stature than men. That is not the Bible`s fault since even in other cultures like Roman, Greek, Chinese, and Babylonian discriminate women. That was the so-called trend during those times.
The secret to not be controlled is to not let your faith be controlled by anyone else. Do you think is wrong. Do only what you have the conscience to follow and let no one dictate you on your beliefs. Everything in this world is wicked so all you need to do is adapt to this world.
Everything in the world is wicked? Ahahaha, if you say so.
The rest of what you said? Probably true.
But what does it matter? I agree. Christianity is outdated. I don't know about people willing to commit more crimes back then. I'm sure that they had plenty of harsh penalties for crime back then. However, I don't even know what your point is.
Yes, the Bible is outdated. It is a book of mythology, which would be interesting except for the fact that some people take it very seriously and ruin other people's lives and freedoms with it. They think it's real, when it's clearly not. The Bible is wrong and outdated and violent and not true. So who cares what it says? Let's move on and try to be friends instead of disputing me in favor of an ancient book that tells you that I'll go to hell for what I believe.
Yes you have a point. But believers do not need any proof to follow what they want. Its their choice and it shall never change no matter what happens. But the Bible does not necessarily mean that of mythology but let us say a figurative history book in which there multiple authors.
I believe that there is no point in arguing in our beliefs since neither of us would change. It would be much better if we just get along and focus on our similarities. You have a point on that.
Yes, that would be ideal. I don't really mind Christianity the religion, but when it has enslaved half the world, and continues to oppress me, even my friends who are gay, when it holds down science and dominates politics, when I am judged as an "evil atheist" by anyone who finds out I don't believe the same things they do, there is a large problem, I feel.
Yes. People who are ignorant tend to misjudge people in their beliefs. But do not mistake the part to the whole. I myself see the atrocities of the church. But then again, I am in no position to judge them. My faith as well would not change. I want to envision the future of the world as filled with open-minded people. I hope that happens one day and the church would reform its decisions.
Please do not include insults in your arguments for it does not directly improve your way of argument. I take no offense from your beliefs since we live in different ways. I respect your decision and I hope you will find happiness in your ideologies.
Your language just shows that satanism is self centered and hateful towards anyone who is against you. Well i come against you in the Name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, and you are powerless before HIM. Like i said, Jesus won this battle already at the cross and even death could not hold HIM! HE IS ALIVE AND SITTING AT THE FATHER'S RIGHT HAND. HIS RETURN IS SOON, I CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE HIM FACE TO FACE :D MARANATHA LORD JESUS :D
You still believe in a religious mythological character if you're a satanist. And you probably still believe in god if you feel the need to be at the side of something opposite to it.
I'm not a satanist, I'm an atheist, and that's because I don't believe in things that aren't evidently true. Satan is just as included in that statement as god is. And satanist rituals, practices and worshipings, are enough to classify satanism as a form of religion (more often than not, at least in europe and in the US, some sort of sub-set of christianity).
And like it or not, satan is an invention that blossomed from religious (leaders) beliefs as a way to instill fear on people thinking about desobeying their doctrine.
You still believe in a religious mythological character if you're a satanist. And you probably still believe in god if you feel the need to be at the side of something opposite to it.
Wrong. Im as atheist as you. I'm an atheistic satanist. I don't believe I him or any of their supernatural but I like the teachings and ideals and some practices that come with it so I identify as a satanist. It's just a philosophy, not my religion.
I absolutely do not believe in god or anything in the bible. I debate rigorously against such absurdities.
No I dont go against it because I don't believe in it. Some satanists are jus angsty teens that do so but I an not one of them.
I'm not a satanist, I'm an atheist, and that's because I don't believe in things that aren't evidently true.
Me too. Im a skeptic and ive done my homework. I think critically just like you. I know what an atheist is.
Satan is just as included in that statement as god is.
If you're saying that they are equivalent then I agree. But I don't know what statement you're referring to..
And satanist rituals, practices and worshipings, are enough to classify satanism as a form of religion
Well only if they are serving a supernatural purpose. Like if someone prays to Satan or invokes a demon then that is a religious practice because you have to believe in the theism to conduct it.
But satanism has meditations and health practices too. Like yoga, chakra meditations, and stress relief meditations. A person can do these things and not believe in Satan because that isnt a requirement and there's no supernatural purpose to then. I am one of these people.
So yes, some practices indicate that it is a religion, and some dont. If you divide these up you can have theistic and atheistic satanism. Laveyan satanists also do rituals and stuff and they just use Satan as a symbol. Theyre atheistic too.
(more often than not, at least in europe and in the US, some sort of sub-set of christianity).
Again this is incorrect.
And like it or not, satan is an invention that blossomed from religious (leaders) beliefs as a way to instill fear on people thinking about desobeying their doctrine.
Maybe in some rebellious cult but not mainstream satanism. It's an independent branch of beliefs stemming from old pagan religions. NOT Christianity. Thought yes as a religion the theistic satanism is made up and could serve the purpose of manipulation of people. But, satanism has always been a very very very small amount of people compared to other religions so I doubt it was ever used for this.
Oh one last thing. To clarify more that I don't actually believe in Satan think of this: if I asked you about Buddhism you'd say it's a religion. Yet many many people don't believe in buddha yet follow it as a philosophy. And Wicca, some people don't believe in the Wiccan deities yet like what it says about nature so they follow those teachings. Not every [insert religion here]ian (ist) necessarily believes in the mainstream theism. Many don't. Some Christians even reject god and Jesus and the stories but follow Jesus's teachings because they like them. And I applaud those people
Many people try to disqualify buddhism as a religion using that reasoning, however is fails to take in consideration that buddhism has many of the properties that qualify religions, in which believing in a deity is not mandatory. I can't judge your position towards satanism from what you said, but just wanted to underline that.
As you said later on, people follow buddha, but buddha is not a supernatural deity, and still, yes, budhism is qualified as a religion, as it, again, has many of the same properties that qualify something as a religion.
Still, you don't need to identify as anything in particular in order to absorb its good practices. My mother, just like some examples you gave, wasn't a buddhist and could never be confused as one, even despite that she adopted many of their ideologies to her life. That doesn't make someone a religious person, and for that reason I find it hard to believe that your choice to identify as a satanist is justified (though, again, I don't know up to which point you are into it).
I don't believe I him or any of their supernatural
You see, this kind of contradicts your avatar and your name, through which one gets a first impression on where you stand.
Some satanists are jus angsty teens that do so
True, and very ridiculous at that too.
I don't know what statement you're referring to..
I meant my previous statement.
Well only if they are serving a supernatural purpose. Like if someone prays to Satan or invokes a demon then that is a religious practice because you have to believe in the theism to conduct it.
Exactly. Most of what I see is exactly that. Further on you refer to something else as mainstream satanism, but at least where I live this is the mainstream satanism, even if it's not very mainstream on the big picture. And it's mostly what I was refering to in my first response.
I may be ill informed if there's a more serious minded and benevolent or socially and individually beneficial version of satanism. But this kind of satanism is what I refer to as a sub-set of christianity, where most of them don't even realise the contradictions they fall into (some not believing in god yet hating it, some not noticing they believe the same things just with a different attitude towards them, etc). Some of them don't even know what gehenna was except from what they read in Cradle of Filth music lyrics (one of my favorite bands. :) Ironicaly.)
No, Satanism says YOU are the most important thing in this world. Care for yourself and those you care for and fight those who will harm you. Also Satan is Prometheus to those who believe in him. The giver of knowledge and freedom. The choice between Satanism and Christianity is selfish, curious independence and voluntary, beneficent slavery.
The choice between Atheistic Satanism and anything else, to me, is sight to blindness.
Christianity just like every other thing in the world looks different on paper. Its about having a relationship with Jesus. About love, just like you were loved. Eye for eye makes the whole world blind. Its about love.
No because it's not a belief (in my case, not all) in a deity and wonderfull afterlife. I just see the teachings and philosophy as wise and easy for me to follow. They show promise for a good life. It's atheism with a twist in my case. I don't need hope for pitiful salvation. I use my energy to focus on THIS life, the ONE you get to live. Whatever happens after happens.
You mean those cute little boys right?? Oohh the priests love them so much, they have been cuddled from top to bottom ^^ it's all in the name of Jesus.
You obviously mistake the part to the whole. Then when for an example an man robbed you does that scenario term that all men are thieves? Obviously its wrong since you are committing hasty generalization.
Plus what made you think that Satanists would`t do the same if both religions are practiced by mere mortals?
Because it's not an organized religion. Satanism has no church, no hierarchy, no doctrines, and therefore no priests. So it is impossible for it to happen in satanism. (the satanism Im talking about. There are nutty people who call themselves "high priest" or whatever but that's a load of BS)
I was just saying that from fact about many of the so called trusted priest love to play around with boys, if those priests are the emissary of the high heaven? I'll just stick around green lush earth.
To be fair, most satanists follow the LaVeyan version of satanism (which is essentially atheistic satanism), in which Satan or the Devil is held as symbolic, and doesn't actually exist.
True. Very true. Its a form of atheistic satanism. It has separate teachings and practices than just regular atheistic satanism (which is theistic minus belief in deities). It is about indulgence in the seven deadly sins. Theistic satanism teaches totally different things therfore atheistic satanism does as well.
Satan isn't real. And you can't trust god because he isn't real. And in the bible he's a massive hipocrite and fails to answer thousands if prayers s day. I don't trust a guy who flooded the world once already. He's two faced and cruel. And fake
Read the description...if you did youd know im talking about REAL satanism. As in, atheistic satanic philosophy, or theistic. Both of which are not play-offs of Christianity in any way and are independent original religions. Theres actually evidence to show that the preceded christianity.
You need to stop being so ignorant, and look into what's there and understand that what you are believing in is not going anywhere good, and that you can be saved.
Sorry vacation, I'm going to assume you haven't watched A Case for a Creator, God's handiwork is all around you, the earth is too complex with life to be trial and error, God exists and it is easy to see
I have looked ALL over for any bit of evidence for God. I dont have to see that collection of "evidence" because if it is true, i wouldve found it bit by bit over my research time. Trust me, ive looked. How about you look and understand Quantum Physics? The big bang? Quantum Freezing? Abiogenesis? Macro & Micro evolution? How bout you watch the Atheist Experience on youtube for some logic and reason lessons? Or historical record of biblical inacuracies and untruths?
Also i want to address how you blatantly ignored my request for you to prove your god. If youre so sure he exists then i would love to see your evidence for this. Really i would.
No, you are going to Tartarus for denying the divinity of the Olympians. Apophis will swallow you if you do not bow to Ra. If you do not die in combat, Hel will have you. How do you know you aren't worshipping the false god? Shamash is older than Elohim and Christ, why aren't he and his fellows the true gods of our kind?
How is God imaginary? There is zero evidence proving him non existent but there have been many discoveries leaning towards there being a creator, God is real
If you look at all known species, none of them have one single ancestor, they have proven it to be impossible for proteins to just suddenly form together and create an organism, our world and universe are both too perfect to be a trial and error creation, we were made by a creator and that creator is God, watch the video "A Case for a Creator" it will help you finally learn
About the species: in the video it's a signed document, signed by professors all over the world and throughout the United States that all say they have been able to prove evolution wrong and show their evidence
Our universe is perfect with how animals function to how the planets rotate
If you don't watch the video then don't argue because you have zero information to back you up, unlike myself
Just because I'm Christian does not mean I only research off of Christian websites and Christian books
About the species: in the video it's a signed document, signed by professors all over the world and throughout the United States that all say they have been able to prove evolution wrong and show their evidence
If they actually disproved evolution it would be more widely known.
Our universe is perfect
If our universe is so perfect why are there trillions of planets that are just desolate rocks.
It isn't widely known because people don't want to believe it like how some don't want to believe that there is a God, they keep out of mainstream because liberals who don't believe in God rather not look into it and get it out of their way, why does every planet not have to be a desolate rock to be perfect? Your question is irrelevant
If they actually had proof that disproved Evolution most if not all scientists would accept it. Scientists only accept it because it's the best logical theory currently.
It's a theory that has faults, thus making it a non logical theory. Many scientists do not like the idea that evidence leads to a creator, will they have been proven wrong they need to suck it up and deal with the fact that there is a God
Like i said if they actually disproved evolution they would of made it public because if they where real scientists they would of know other scientists would accept it.
They did disprove it, like I said, it's a lot of people who don't like the fact that we were created by something, and that something being God, watch "A Case for a Creator" it will help you understand
Im going to end this right now. First off, they have not disproved evolution. It is still widely accepted and studied scientific theory. Secondly, i know where youre getting at by striving to disprove it. You, like many christians, think that once evolution is out of the way the only other explaination that is available will be God. This is not the case. Scientists (should it be disproved [not likely]) wont be like "Well damn guys, evolution was totally wrong. Well, i guess its God then. Haleluja!" No. Absolutely not. God will NEVER be accepted by the scientific community so attempting to disprove evolution is pointless. Creationism was even dropped from scientific acknowledgement in 1850 because it was agbsurd, impossible, untestable, unobservable, illogical, ect.
When science has gaps, or when gaps open up due to failed theories, they are not filled with god. No, we take and intellegent approach and fill them with more science. Therefore, if evolution is disproved, that gap will be filled with another scientific theory, and another, and another. Even to the bitter end God will never be taken as a serious theory or even hypothesis as to how life began.
Because God is not accepted in the scientific community they won't publish the evidence that proves evolution wrong. It has in fact been proven false, show me the evidence that proves evolution correct, it's not there. I'm not saying that God is answer I'm just saying the more they look into their discoveries, it shows that we were created by some supernatural being. If you research into this kind of stuff you would know. Scientist try to work around the fact there is no God. Well guess what there is a God, try to challenge me without making hasty generalizations. God is real, that's a fact
Youre a complete idiot. I usually don't jump to that but it's true. I have seen the evidence because I understand what it says. Abiogenesis, natural selection, macro and micro evolution, I understand it all. You just probably don't understand them so you see it as a conspiracy against god. This is absurd. Scientists work towards truth. Whether that's god or not doesn't matter. They follow the evidence, and that's away from god.
You also have the illusion that evolution is all that stands in your way. Wrong. There's also archeology, historical evidence, logic, reason, and common sense as well as science. Defeat all of those and god may be considered. If you want a full argument I wrote to Srom giving all this evidence just ask.
Thats why they dont right? Thats why atheism is rapidly growing as christianity is barely managing to stay afloat due to birthrates among christian households alone right? Thats why when you search the internet you find 1 case for god for every 100 thats against him (and its poorly formed or blatantly false). In each field, yeah, i bet there is some kind of evidence for something in the bible being true, but the majority of it disproves the bible. Science for example has disproves pretty much anything the bible has ever said about science, but it also a tool that christians have used to explain how their god could exist. i.e: outside space and time, thermodynamics, ect. The point im trying to make is, yes, in some way any field can be used to prove god, but they have far more use in DISproving him.
Also i wanna raise the question, what parts of the bible? If you say they have proved creationism true then that is hugely significant. But if they have only proved that a certain battle took place at a certain time in the bible than that is meaningless. Just because a few minor details in the bible are proven true doesnt make the entire thing fact. For example, just because we know jerusalem exists doesnt make the stories of jesus in jerusalem true. That would be like saying just because London exists that Harry Potter therfore exists, which is not true. You need proof and evidence for everything. And so far there is none for any of the REAL big questions such as God and Jesus's existence, creation, ect.
i have feeling that Satanism is only winning because people hate Christianity way more than anything else. So as a result they will side on Satanism's side just so Christianity can look bad. If thats what your doing then shame on you.
Satanism is just stupid satan was in second in comand in heaven and turn on his own father all of ours fathers not just his all and he was banished for being selfish brat wanted daddys kingdom and just like a child he went into a temper tanrum. I believe if you put all your faith into a person such as satan you will be seriously disappointed in the end but do as you like
only god can judge any of us and he will in time we all got our time think about these mistakes you are making and repent....
Yeah actually. When stupid theists can't even read the description of a debate before throwing their fairytale shit into everyones faces. Your religions an even bigger joke than Christianity and that's saying something. Get out of here, dont you have more innocent people to bomb?
No I hate them WITH knowing. Knowing their bloody history and present existence of hate and violence while attempting to wear a mask of peace. It disgusts me.
Israel is the brainwashed capitol of the world where the judeo Christian vermin breed and spread their disease out of since the beginning of time. As far as I'm concerned were doing fine in Afghanistan cleaning up the filth as best we can. The only thing I care about is American lives.
No evidence for Jesus existing nor what he did. He told people to cut off body parts and killed a tree for not giving him fruit. Not very moral. And Christian morals are: do what is right because god said to/do it for the reward of heaven. That's not moral, that's a doctrine. Atheists do what's right because they know it's right and don't seek reward and dint have to be told to.
Yeah, eternal suffering if you mess up! So sweet of him. How silly to side with the only deity that stuck up for humanity. He got kicked it of heaven for standing up to the bully on the playground. He should be praised by Christians.
I hate the devil thats and I will be on the side of God...
So I will be at side of Christianity even I,m a Muslim.
our Religion tells us about all the Prophets , Christ , Musa and all others and says we can,t be proper Muslims if we don't believe at the prophets of God.
The devil is but a part of religions, you know? Your religion tells you about the prophets, about christ, and also about satan. Or is it not true that it tells you if you don't worship mohamed you will end up with satan? Whether you like it or not, satan is but something that belongs to religious beliefs, as a way to induce people to obey their religion. What you hate is just a part of what you love.
Satanism is included in what I consider as "religious beliefs" (more often than not, it's but a rebel sub-set of christianity), since their conduct has many of the properties that classifies a religion.
You really confused me. Yes the devil is part of the Christian religion. Yes he's a tool for manipulation. I have no religion, im atheistic satanist. I only follow satanism as a philosophy.
Actually it is not often a rebellious subset. Those satanists are very few and far between in the satanist population which is larger and more diverse than i think you know.
Their is theistic satanism which is the deity worship which yes is a religion. But there's also atheistic and Laveyan. Two atheistic philosophies. Do your homework before making such broad assumptions.
Support God! Satanist suck! If it was not for god their would not be any Satan or his Death angels!. That demon stuff can be really creepy and scary!. The demons can even turn on you and Satan himself. Satan can never love you. Thats why bad things happen in your life notice when you turn to Satan you lose yourself some people never come back from it.But with god you are giving a clear chance to live life to the fullest. :)
You're an idiot. Satan was derived from old pagan religions and put into Christianity as the boogy man. It's made up. The Satan that is worshipped today is a deity completely independent from Christianity. I.e you don't need to believe in god and the bible ect to worship Satan. Real satanism is an independent religion or atheistic philosophy with it's own teachings and practices, which in my opinion, as FAR more beneficial to humanity than christianitys.
There are no dark angels, no Satan from Christianity. That along with god and the bible are all made up. I don't believe in Satan but I do follow the philosophy and teachings of it.
God is just as real as Satan. Why is one real and not the other? And please explain to me how Christianity is not caring for others and ourselves. Clearly you haven't read the Bible. Do you think people just draw pentagrams out of the blue? There is a reason behind it. It's called Satan. He is the Father of lies and deceit and destruction. When has anyone EVER seen ANYTHING GOOD come from the hands of Satan???
And please explain to me how Christianity is not caring for others and ourselves
i never said christianity/christians werent caring. However it seems apparent to me that most are in it for heaven and the ammount of corruption within the religion is extreme what with the megachurches and other scams that horde money in the name of god and then dont disperse it to those in need.
Clearly you haven't read the Bible
actually i have.
Do you think people just draw pentagrams out of the blue?
No? Yes? Idk? sure some people doodle them, others draw them for religious reasons. either way whats your point?
There is a reason behind it. It's called Satan. He is the Father of lies and deceit and destruction. When has anyone EVER seen ANYTHING GOOD come from the hands of Satan???
Let me clairify this. i dont believe in satan. ive said this many many many many many times in this thread and across createdebate and in my profile im listed as atheist. Nothing has ever come of the hands of satan because he most likely doesnt exist and the same goes for god.
However hypothetically if they do exist then is god not more powerful than satan? does satan not have to get gods permission before doing anything (as in the story of job)? If he does then isnt god directly responsible for anything he does?
satan is weak god he had 2 chances to defeat God and Jesus but failed he failed to defeat God in heaven during his rebellion and failed to defeat Jesus when he was on the cross the war on death was raged and satan loses the war why serve a god who cheats and lies when I serve a God that gives life and can win wars and crush darkness and who is merciful, who brings true peace and will comfort us. I'm not serving satan because he is a loser and a coward and a thief. Satan can't touch me because the blood of Jesus protects from any plague from coward Satan.
Satanism is a deceitful religion. You are worshipping Satan which leaves you open to possession by him or demons. He may appear to be nice or to be trusted but he is most certianly not. Morals stand by the rules of the creater. Satan is very deceitful. Gods Morals stands at the ten commandments. People often get confused of what Christianity is. Christian means to be Christ like. Therefore Christianity is a relationship with God not a religion. The problem here is that you have non-christians thinking their christians going out make a name for themselves that confuses others with supplication of wrong doctrines and not making adequate application. You can only become a christian when you receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. You must read the Bible to get the proper Morals. Do not look at the hypocrites because they are not what a Christian looks like. Just look at the Bible and see what God has laid out for us. I highly recommend that you do not go in Satanism to find Morals because you will end up demon possessed. Demon Possession isn't always painful. But the demons will deceive you and control some of your actions. God Bless you and may you serve Christ not Satan.
Come on Brothers and Sisters in Christ, lets get some scripture into this argument, the Word of God is sharper than a double edged sword. Philippians 4:13 says "13 I can do all this through him who gives me strength." Jeremiah 29:11-13 says "11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." Isaiah 41:10-13 says "10 So do not fear, for I am with you;
I admit I dont know much about Laveyan Satanism but whilst doing some research on-line something that kept cropping up was that before he died Anton Lavey said he was mistaken and asked for forgiveness from God. The witnesses to this were allegedly all members of the Church Of Satan. I dont know if this is true or just propaganda spread by his enemies if it is true though thats gotta be a big spanner in the works for Satanists.
Like I said it was something that kept cropping up, Christians say he did Satanists say he did'nt and both of them are going to be biased, all the sites that are'nt connected to either qualify it as an unsubstantiated rumour. I guess the only person who could tell us for sure is the man himself and he is'nt talking for obvious reasons!!!
This is sort of a dumb discussion. It says Satanism vs Christianity, but all the Satanism posts seem to be trying disconnect "THEIR" Satan from Christianity. We stole him, because we were uncreative?
This is sort of a dumb discussion. It says Satanism vs Christianity, but all the Satanism posts seem to be trying disconnect "THEIR" Satan from Christianity.
Because every single christian who debates has NO idea what real satanic religions and philosophies are. They can't see past their own religions definition of Satan and think only that it means a rebellious subset of Christianity. Which we have to explain over and over that this is not necessarily true in most cases. There's no real debating because Christians can't get this concept through their heads. So I would say that this debate failed to accomplish what i intended. Sue me.
We stole him, because we were uncreative?
When he was written in yes. It is just a theory but we do know that Satan predates xhristianty in the form of a few pagan god's. For instance Horus of Egyptian mythology. He evolved into two things, christianities Satan, and the satanic Satan.
Christianity renamed him and made him their boogyman.
The other branched continued to evolve independently from Christianity. It's called satanism today. Some also call themselves luciferians. These words also predate Christianity. Satan is truth In Sanskrit. It is clear to see that Christianity took it because everything predates it...satanists couldn't see into the future and copy it.
I don't get what you were trying to say with the last part. Lucifer and Satan are the same thing...and god is a dick for the dickless.
They can't see past their own religions definition of Satan and think only that it means a rebellious subset of Christianity.
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This just doesn't make sense. You want to debate a "name" where each side has a different concept of the word?
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I used to debate with Satanists and it blew my mind how people could worship death, destruction, eternal misery, eternal pain, etc. That is what Satan meant to me. Come to find, Satanist don't mean the same "Satan" at all. And the idiots that promote the idea that Christians "stole" Satan as it was some sort of organized crime unit. . . . is just crazy.
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I don't speak Sanskrit. It is one of the oldest languages written languages we know about, developed in India by the old Hindu religions. Satan is still one of their "Gods" out of thousands. They have gods for just about every little thing that can happen to you. If you are having trouble with constipation, I'm sure they have a God for it. They have religious rituals that take hours where they just name the 1000 male gods and 1000 female gods. Satan is one of them. And you are right, he isn't a bad symbol, though I don't remember exactly what.
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Lucifer, on the other hand is interesting.
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But back to Satan. His name means adversary in Sanskrit. Some people have twisted that idea to mean, "adversary of ignorance and stupidity." And if you stretch that, it sounds like "truth." But that is sort of like saying, "Satan, the Adversary of the stink from poop."
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Sue me.
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Why? That idea that Christianity "stole" Satin is just underground poppycock trying to incite anger. I've seen very type of language used in Neo-Nazi, KKK, and other cultist types. The Devil has been called by many names down through history.
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Satan from the Pagans was named the "Horned One." I don't think that they actually called him Satan though. The "Horned One" was usually just called that, even though the Horned One had many names when he wasn't being the "Horned One." The Horned One was meant to depict the Great Stag, the symbol of New Life in the Spring. He was the male counter part of the Goddess.
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There is not proof that Horus evolved into Satan either. Horus was the winged one. There is more proof that he went to Greece and become Zeus. In a sense, he is the only one of the five that survived the feud between the siblings.
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The Sanskrit version of Satan couldn't have come the Hebrews by the time Satan showed up in the Bible. Alexandra the Great went to India in about 320B.C., and Satan was already in the Bible by then.
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Satan has been a work in progress for some time. He first got his horns in about 1100 A.D, (hard to remember.) He got his cloven hooves at the same time. I forget where he got his pick fork.
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I don't get what you were trying to say with the last part. Lucifer and Satan are the same thing...and god is a dick for the dickless.
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Oh, I was just screwing with you. However, since you ask. Jesus and Lucifer are actually the same being. Satan is a myth, made to respect our fear and used, as you said, to scare small children.
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Satan and Lucifer get confused as being the same being, but they are not. Lucifer is known as the "light bringer, the star of the morning, the Fallen Angel." You mentioned that Horus became Satan, but I've never found that connection. However, Horus did have connections to Lucifer. Many of the Arabic, Persian, and (I think) even the Muslims still use the name Lucifer as "light bringer" though I'm not really sure how they esteem the person and personality.
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The WHOLE God story has really been lost from history, except for a few. Until very recently, it probably would have been completely lost.
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Moses started the whole story. Before him, there wasn't any record of Adam and such. If it existed, it was verbal. Moses was rebel Egyptian Prince. He knew how to read, write, build, lead, use trances, see visions, etc, that Egyptian princes would have been educated in.
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Moses took the Hebrew workers that he worked with and lead a rebellion against Ramses II. The sea levels were a little lower back then, and Moses knew about the tides and such and knew when the bearer reef in the Red Sea would appear, which allowed him escape.
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Moses has all of Egyptian lore, rituals, history, and skills of a Egyptian priest. He knows about Isis, Osiris, Horus, etc. He has all of the religious experience. I don't really know where he got the story of Adam and Eve. He wrote the first 5 books of the Bible.
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He used the symbol of the Serpent as the power that tempted Eve. In Egypt, the Serpent represents Female Wisdom. Basically "female wisdom" tempted Eve. Wow, imagine that.
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Lucifer could have represented Horus, as I have found that. Horus the Winged One, feel from his high place to help humankind.
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Later, Jesus claims that the "creator" is sort of a half retarded God that wasn't quite some what he was doing. He claims that it was HIS soul that tempted Eve.
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Jesus was saving Man from the Creator.
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The fallen angel, in almost history case is a great angel that fell from his exalted state to help humans in their plight.
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Anyway, Satan is the "Devil" that is the Bogie Man. He represents all things that are nasty. He isn't real, but he is the symbol for the dumb.
Many of the opposing responses are disappointing at best. While some of the remarks are just plain juvenile, I notice a common bond. Most who support the idea of satanism simply enjoy antisocial behavior and the ensuing attention it generates. It is similar to the sensationalism of a shock jock on the radio who seeks only a reaction; yet many Satanic practicioners will profit only with short loved attention. This is evidenced by the lack of any organizational structure or platform of beliefs.
On the other hand, whether you subscribe to the beliefs of Christians or not, one can not argue with the facts that Christ was actually a man with recorded acts of good will. Also, despite many negative actions by a noisy fraction of Christians, the Christian doctrines teach love, acceptance, and acts of charity in order to spread its demise. In contrast, a unified theme in Satanism, besides antisocoal behavior, is self centered behavior.
I should also mention as further evidence of the overall Christian benifits, in the last 7 years, Christianity was the only religion with massive organized responses to major natural disasters across the globe, while the Christianity is an absolute minority among religious populations.
The reason you hear about these shock satanists is well, because that's what they're trying to do. Many satanists are actually in the closet do to speak and keep their thoughts to themselves. The satanist population could be far larger than we think but we don't know because not many scream it to the world.
I never said Christianity was just absolutely evil. It's obvious that yes Jesus did teach good things. What I'm saying is that there are many things that are NOT moral. Especially when its god involved. The end result of the stories are almost always about faith to god and not being good to other people. And these stories are alot of the time just absolutely immoral. For instance job: god is an asshole by letting Satan do all that shit. Then he gives him a new family which shows blatant disregard for human lives and emotions. The end teaching is have faith in god and he will reward you. Not necessarily a bad thing but it was told using a story that just threw the "god is love" theory out the window. I'm not saying the teachings are immoral (some are though like killing gays and witches) I'm saying the stories are horribly immoral and therfore god is.
I don't know where your getting your ideas that satanism is usually a selfish and antisocial thing. This is a very hasty generalization because like I said before, many perfectly normal people are satanists. I am also living proof that that is not true. I'm not an emo attention seeker who sits in corners and listens to sad rock. Im extremely social. I play sports and have many different friends. And as far as being selfish goes, I have over 45 hours of community service work inside and outside of the BSA. And just the other day I helped a teacher reorganize her room for an event I wasn't even part of. I'm not bragging here I'm just saying I am the total opposite of your desription of satanists.
Christianity has billions of followers. A minority, I hope you're joking. It's in the top 5 biggest religions. Thay have billions of dollars and the ability to send money and people to places like that. What your saying here is basically that satanists are bad because they dont do these things.
Well like you said it is not an organized religion. It is an individual religion and theres nothing wrong with that. But because of the small population of satanists of any kind and the lack of organization, they CAN'T do this.
That's like asking "yo satanists why don't you care? Why don't you help?" or "yo Wiccans..." . They're small religions and for the most part unorganized. They can't do the things Christianity can. And also they probably DID help. They're normal people so probably alot of them did donate to sandy relief or did donate to Newtown. I did. I can't send a thousand care packages though. I'm one person. And even if I got together with every satanist of any kind in the state we still couldn't do it. But it doesnt mean we don't care.
I noticed you have used strong language to make your point. I certainly admire the passion with which you frame your argument. However, if the debate is entitled Satanism vs Christianity, then, from a purely academic standpoint, the results are interesting:
1. By your admission in your last dispute, Christianity is well organized religion with broad membership. Satanism is not as cited in your last post stating, "many Satanist keep their thoughts to themselves."
2. Christianity teaches a focus on subservience to a purpose larger than one's self. I noticed other posts by you which show Satanism is a "me-first"religion. Anything left over can help others... if you want.
3. Christianity, with only 33% of the world's religious population, is responsible for more philanthropic endeavors than all other religions or non-government charitable giving COMBINED. According to your post, Satanists may give, but we do not know.
4. Despite holding only 33% of the world's religious population, Christianity is the most well funded religion in the world. This is because Christian's are one of the most well educated and wealthy followers; or to put it another way, Christians are more successful and share more of that success than other religions. According to your post, Satanism is not organized and, therefore no concerted efforts is possible.
It is easy to see that, when the religions are compared head to head in a "Consumer Reports" style analysis, then Christianity wins hand down.
In your rebuttal, you also mention that many of the stories are not moral, but you cite a few passages out of context. In fact, all of the stories in the Bible result in a moral lesson. I understand, however, how this may seem when one interprets the religion literally. The good news is that, if taken literally, the lessons remain helpful.
To understand the argument, one must understand the fundamentals differences of Christian views. Those who have the ability to think more abstractly understand that, while the Bible has stories seem unsavory or impossible, Christians accept the images as fact while understanding there is an overall lesson. You mentioned Job and he was a great example of this. Job's story was elaborate and extreme to show that a Christian's faith in God will yield God's blessings in the end. Admittedly, many Christians do not have the capacity think abstractly and simply glean a lesson from these stories. From my experience, these are usually sweet people with simple minds who need the ability to absorb a lesson, but cannot understand imagery. As a result, your comment about disregard for human lives and emotions is mute and immaterial at best. It is equal to complaining about the treachery of the tortoise when he tricked the hare or to complain a tortoise cannot talk. Should let our kids learn that "slow and steady wins the race" or should we cry foul?
Understandably, thousands of years later we notice scientific flaws or criticize the text, but I think most agree the authors were well beyond their time.
Many Christians just are not capable of understanding the abstract view of God and must see Him as a grand puppeteer. It is important to note that Christians who are capable of thinking in more sophisticated terms understand God and more of an entity or a positive energy with intelligence. Simply put, Christian doctrine explains God as the embodiment of good. That is pretty much it! It is important to mention this, because your rebuttal complains that Christianity is centered around worshiping God. In that lens, if the Bible is moral imagery and the Christians believe that God is good, then it is Christianity must be inherently good. I must reiterate, the focus is on the premise of God's good will, not on the technical details the authors seemed to have missed a few thousand years ago.
So, from the Christian viewpoint, subservience to God is about believing in a greater good larger than yourself. It is serving the world, the universe, mankind, everything and everyone.
You must understand also the being Christians call "Satan" is basically the Kleenex of the religion. Other words used are "evil", "the enemy" or "the devil." The Bible talks about darkness, a serpent, and a fallen angel. Christian doctrine does not even describe anyone in particular. Job's story uses satan as an enemy of God, but one character in one story. The character could have been named "Bob." This is not the same satan that is referred to in other Christian rhetoric. Instead, this is a collective term. In another post you mentioned that Christians do not understand Satanism. That is because your Satan and our idea of an enemy, sometimes called "Satan" are not the same entity.
I was particularly puzzled in your rebuttal when you mentioned "I don't know where your getting your ideas that satanism is usually a selfish and antisocial thing." and you calling this a "hasty generalization". Meanwhile, you posted in this same debate that Satanism "preaches putting yourself and your priorities above others". Your post describing Satanism defines selfish and antisocial behavior. I do applaud you for your efforts and community service. (Incidentally, Christians are told to do good acts in secret. This helps keep a Christians' focus on his mission for good and not self promotion.) Christianity teaches that we must focus on the greater good and have Faith we will be provided for. This is a COMPLETELY selfless doctrine and, believe me when I say, it is beautiful to see people who have totally dedicated themselves to the greater good.
You hoped I was joking that Christianity is a minority. I was not. The fact is that Christians only account for 33% of religious believers. It may be one of the top 5 religions and it may dwarf Satanism in membership, but 33% is still not a majority. It is just a math thing, not a joke.
I can understand why a Satanist must enjoy this debate. A self serving religion is certainly threatened by putting other first or social welfare. I have read tenants of many other religions, including Satanism. I can see great qualities in all of them and some matters with which I do not agree. I can also understand how some people may question Christianity. However, if the debate is about adding up Christianity and Satanism in a head to head comparison, then the choice is clearly pro-Christianity. Just as some people still actually spend money on Blackberry phones, one cannot argue with a preference.
1. By your admission in your last dispute, Christianity is well organized religion with broad membership. Satanism is not as cited in your last post stating, "many Satanist keep their thoughts to themselves."
I fail to see a point to this. It it doesn't say one side is better. It's just a difference.
2. Christianity teaches a focus on subservience to a purpose larger than one's self. I noticed other posts by you which show Satanism is a "me-first"religion. Anything left over can help others... if you want.
Subservience to a supernatural being that does not exist. Most of what a Christian does is for A) god or B) the reward of an afterlife. For a satanist they don't have to do things for A and B because those things don't matter. As in, Satan doesn't care and it doesn't change where you're going after you die. Therfore when a satanist does something its because they really care. Not because of some god.
And also, Christian people dont do any more things for others than satanists do. It's the leaders of the churches that use the funds to do good to maintain an image. Not necessarliy because they want to. Also alot of the time a Christians idea of "helping" something or someone is by praying. Which does nothing yet provides that person with a feeling of doing something. Satanists don't do this. Also I totally agree with putting yourself first. It makes more sense in this modern world. I'f i don't have the money to pay for groceries for my family, what right do I have sending it to others? It's not really selfish. Selfish would be if someone could spend money on a flat screen tv or put a few bucks in the Salvation army bucket. Satanism says "make sure you're all set before giving to others". Think about it, America is going in the shitter because we had to help everybody else and neglected our own needs.
3. Christianity, with only 33% of the world's religious population, is responsible for more philanthropic endeavors than all other religions or non-government charitable giving COMBINED. According to your post, Satanists may give, but we do not know.
And this proves...? Like i said before, they only do more good because there's more people. It's not a hard concept. Also satanism isn't organized. There's no churches, no pooling of money. So large donations and such cant be done. Who knows maybe by and large satanists have given more as regular people than regular Christians do. You really didnt prove anything here.
4. Despite holding only 33% of the world's religious population, Christianity is the most well funded religion in the world. This is because Christian's are one of the most well educated and wealthy followers;
Wooooahhh. Where did THIS come from? Well educated and wealthy? Try ignorant and foolish. With probably the same social classes as satanists. It's well funded BECAUSE it has more people! It's not like the other 66% is one religion. It's all broken up into smaller chunks. 33% is MASSIVE. and if every one gave one buck it would be billions. Just because the churches pour out the cash doesn't mean the people gave alot or if they really cared. Many probably didn't even know their cash was going to these things. Most of it goes towards the churches! Christianity asks for more donations from people than any other religion. You go on a Wiccan site and there's spells and practices and a forum for talking about the religion. You go on a Christian site and BOOM one of the first things you see is DONATE! if it's so well funded then why is it constantly begging for money? Seems there's alot of underlying greed especially in the catholic church.
Anyways as I was saying you have nothing to back up that Christians are more wealthy and educated. In fact, seeing as satanism is about knowledge, the education thing is probably outright false and backwards. And seeing as satanists make are smart, they probably get good jobs and make alot of money. And since they make sure they're economically stable, they stay that way. Which in turn allows them to give more. Unlike the average Christian who is afraid of science and puts one buck in the gold pan at church then goes home to a potentially indebted household. These are all generalizations and guesses of course.
or to put it another way, Christians are more successful and share more of that success than other religions. According to your post, Satanism is not organized and, therefore no concerted efforts is possible.
I addressed the success thing above. But yeah, as a unit satanists can't give because it's a non organized religion in any form. Though individually satanists may and perhaps do give more and that giving holds a more genuine meaning.
It is easy to see that, when the religions are compared head to head in a "Consumer Reports" style analysis, then Christianity wins hand down.
I disagree. If you only look at it as far as giving goes than sure only because of a larger population. There are many other factors. Satanists are probably more in tune with their faith or philosophy because since it is not in the mainstream of society AND generally frowned upon, they must have a real connection with it to follow it despite these things. Whereas many Christians either are indoctrinated from youth or follow what the mainstream of society is. Conversion rates from Christianity to atheism are growing rapidly these days. This is due to increased knowledge of how the religion is false and also suggests that people are using it as a label and are not really in tune with it. Which I would say is a problem. It's not much of a religion without faithful followers.
There's also teachings to take into account and also the lore and history of the religions. Xhristianty has a horribly bloody history of war, violence, and manipulation. Where as satanists are totally off the radar. Bible stories are filled with immoral absurdities, and bloody violence and all kinds of horrible things. Jesus is a small part compared to these things. Satanism doesn't really have much in the way of stories. Nothing really. Because it's about modern day. It's new and appropriate for the 21st century. Not outdated and cruel. Im not saying that it's new and hip and that's why its better. Im saying it doesnt need these stories to relay it's teachings. The teachings which are more appropriate for 21st century society.
In your rebuttal, you also mention that many of the stories are not moral, but you cite a few passages out of context. In fact, all of the stories in the Bible result in a moral lesson. I understand, however, how this may seem when one interprets the religion literally. The good news is that, if taken literally, the lessons remain helpful.
Yes but I wasnt talking about the moral lesson. Like you said I'm talking about the stories. Which are horribly immoral in most cases. What good is relaying a good message with blood, violence, and hate? Also if taken literally this completely destroys the image of an all loving god.
Also, I wouldn't say that many of these moral lessons are actually moral. Stories were used to relay these teachings before Jesus came into play. He said things straight up. But with god they're these stories that end up usually with the lesson relating to god. For instance the end message might be "never lose faith in god". This isn't moral. It's, to quote a beloved movie "a crummy commercial? son of a bitch". That isn't even moral to anyone but Christians.
Now god did also say a few things outright but a lot of these are immoral or don't make any freaking sense.
Then there's don't wear a blend of two fibers? WTF?
And even in the 10 commandments what is first? The pinacle of all rules for Christians? There shall be no god before me. Really? That's the biggest rule? Wow, so that is clearly what is the most important thing to Christians. Their god.
Now then there's Jesus who did teach good. Well sort of. There was the part where he told people to mutilate themselves so they won't sin. And where he killed a fit tree because it didn't give him fruit. And he told people to abandon their families and follow him but that's besides the point.
Now, he taught all these good things. And yet, for what? He was telling people how to get to heaven. So really, he wasn't teaching people to be good because that's the right thing to do. He was teaching them things so they can get to heaven! Now that is selfish. So really. True morality is few and far between in the bible.
Satanism may not tell you how to do it or to do it at all. But if you do, it's because that's the right thing to do.
I'm gonna cut this in half because I don't trust my iPod lol. I'll do the second half tomorrow on a desktop.
Ok i promised id be back the next day and here i am. I just dont trust that damn ipod ever since it randomly shit out and dumped a whole argument i made. But i digress...
To understand the argument, one must understand the fundamentals differences of Christian views. Those who have the ability to think more abstractly understand that, while the Bible has stories seem unsavory or impossible, Christians accept the images as fact while understanding there is an overall lesson.
Though there's a limit. I dont understand how christians can overlook such seriously messed up things. And if someone does posess the ability to think "abstractly" then surely the existence and morality of their god would come into question. Also, unfortunaltely, many many people do not think abstractly nor are they able to take away the overall lesson. Many people take it as a literal story, and have to be told what the lesson is. And it also depends on what the lesson is. If the lesson makes up for the story then it's fine. For instance if the story of job ended up with a moral lesson like: tolerate the beliefs of others and respect all races and people (hypothetically of course i know this lesson has nothing to do with the story) then that beautiful moral lesson would completely make up for such a barbaric story.
Yet' what is the lesson? Remain faithfull to god no matter what (even if he allows you to be tormented) and you will be rewarded. That isnt moral at all. That doesnt apply to society and other people, it only applies to christians and their god. Who does that help? Nobody. And STILL theres that "reward". Always for a "reward".
You mentioned Job and he was a great example of this. Job's story was elaborate and extreme to show that a Christian's faith in God will yield God's blessings in the end.
My idea of a "blessing" isnt a replacement family. If the reader was able to think abstractly, the first things they would be questioning is the god and his morality and hipocricy before they even reached the end of the story.
Admittedly, many Christians do not have the capacity think abstractly and simply glean a lesson from these stories. From my experience, these are usually sweet people with simple minds who need the ability to absorb a lesson, but cannot understand imagery.
I thought they were: "one of the most well educated and wealthy followers"? You completely contradicted yourself. Except this time youre right.
As a result, your comment about disregard for human lives and emotions is mute and immaterial at best.
In reduards to the final lesson of the story yes, if you look at the story as not being important and the true importance is in the final lesson. However, many people take the final lesson to heart AND that the story literally happened. Which, if so, completely flies in the face of this "god is all love" theory. Im using this to expose the hipocricy, absurdity, and immorality of god. Because which is true? The stories that make you feel good? Or the twisted ones? You cant pick and choose.
It is equal to complaining about the treachery of the tortoise when he tricked the hare or to complain a tortoise cannot talk.
For the record, the tortoise didnt trick the hare. He just kept walking. And how is that treachery even if he did? It would be simple trickery or mischeif at most and the hare wouldve deserved it. In the bible stories there is horrible, horrible things that children shouldnt even be exposed to. You hear people today questioning violent video games and television shows. Yet, these stories expose them to grade A horror.
And when you tell the story, nobody from the beginning actually believes the tortoise and hare ever existed nor that the race happened. So the only thing to gain from it is the overall lesson which is beneficial.
With most bible stories, again, people actually believe in this god and these characters. Yet they never question the things that happen and ignore the immorality in the very story itself. If you believe in these characters and god and the legitimacy (is that a word?) of the story than you must analyze all of the story as well as the overall lesson. Know what i mean? I apologize if this is not very clear. Its early and im finding it hard to put my thoughts into text.
Should let our kids learn that "slow and steady wins the race" or should we cry foul?
The lesson is the only thing to take from it because everything else can be ignored, because nobody believes the characters and story are real. So the only thing to look for in it is the overall meaning. If someone does actually believe the story and the character than the story must be analyzed a little further. For example, theres no reason to analyze or question the tortoise and the hare because its known to be unreal from the start. Nobody's gonna ask "why can they talk?" or "why are they racing?" its a fairytale.
Yet when the story is believed to be true. and the characters are believed to be real. Then questions SHOULD be asked. The things like that should be payed attention too if they bring question to the overall validity of the story and characters.
Like if in a scientific report you read it over and the conclusion is, Magnesium is the most durable metal. But you notice only one trial was conducted and theres no list of errors. Because of this you should be saying "hey somethings not right here". You should call them on that and ask for an explaination before accepting that conclusion whether it's right or wrong. I hope that clearified.
Understandably, thousands of years later we notice scientific flaws or criticize the text, but I think most agree the authors were well beyond their time.
Oh without a doubt. These were intellegent people for that age. Though the key words are "that age". Which is the bronze age. It's the 21st century. Nobody should be getting their science and history from a 2000 year old tome, let alone their morality. Anything we knew then, we know now and even more so has it been perfected. We dont NEED that book anymore. It was highly influential in history because those teachings were as you said far beyond their time. People needed that book to live by. But today, all of that stuff in the bible is basic modern day morality that everyone has just by living in this time. As we grow up we know that you should be kind to others and respect our neighbors and not commit adultery. If we grow up in modern society we will gain this stuff without even knowing it. Its not like we're savages until we pick it up.
The morality in Satanism is a little more specific. Ill explain. When going into the religion, it is assumed that the person already has basic modern morality. So the teachings dont bother with what we already know. It doesnt reteach common knowledge. What it does is set guidelines that might not be so obvious. For example: Dont give your opinions unless asked for them. This one simple rule is often overlooked, and is one more little thing you can do to be respectfull.
Theres also the preaching of the gain of knowledge which is absent in the bible.
And so on. It is an addition to what we already know instead of a review of it. It is more suited to a modern world than christianity which really has nothing to provide.
Many Christians just are not capable of understanding the abstract view of God and must see Him as a grand puppeteer.
Again, contradicting yourself. Just saying.
It is important to note that Christians who are capable of thinking in more sophisticated terms understand God and more of an entity or a positive energy with intelligence. Simply put, Christian doctrine explains God as the embodiment of good. That is pretty much it!
This flies in the face of the bulk of biblical teachings which say that god is an actual entity that is the creator, judge, good, and also evil. Because if this god can create hell and satan than there must be an evil side.
It is important to mention this, because your rebuttal complains that Christianity is centered around worshiping God. In that lens, if the Bible is moral imagery and the Christians believe that God is good, then it is Christianity must be inherently good.
Not neccesarily. We've reviewed that the bible is not necessarily moral imagery in many cases, at least to the bulk of the human population that is outside of christianity. What christians believe does not matter. What matters is what's actually true. Therfore christianity is not necessarily "good". It can do good. And it can sometimes preach good. Yet it is not entirely good. Its bloody history and twisted stories and backwards morals show this. Something that is inherently good is something that does the least harm. Satanism has never killed anyone (at least real satanism. Im sure psychos will do anything), never had a war, and doesnt teach anything harmfull.
I must reiterate, the focus is on the premise of God's good will, not on the technical details the authors seemed to have missed a few thousand years ago.
Yet like you said, many people are not able to realize this which is a serious problem.
So, from the Christian viewpoint, subservience to God is about believing in a greater good larger than yourself. It is serving the world, the universe, mankind, everything and everyone.
Keywords: "From a christian viewpoint". From an outside perspective looking in we see that subservience to god is about reward and often fear among other things. Its about serving God through good acts, not necessarily because they were the right thing to do. Serving the world, universe, and mankind? I dont know where youre getting that from. Everything in the bible circles back to god in some way. If it was about serving mankind than surely there wouldnt be parts about condoning slavery, and killing certain groups of people. Then again, the only people the bible considers worthy of being part of "mankind" are straight god fearing christians. Surely there would also be things that say "Not only for god, but because it is the right thing to do". Or something to that effect. I dunno. Thats just me.
You must understand also the being Christians call "Satan" is basically the Kleenex of the religion. Other words used are "evil", "the enemy" or "the devil." The Bible talks about darkness, a serpent, and a fallen angel. Christian doctrine does not even describe anyone in particular. Job's story uses satan as an enemy of God, but one character in one story. The character could have been named "Bob." This is not the same satan that is referred to in other Christian rhetoric. Instead, this is a collective term. In another post you mentioned that Christians do not understand Satanism. That is because your Satan and our idea of an enemy, sometimes called "Satan" are not the same entity.
Precisely. This is why it is agrevating having discussing the two. Because christians do not understand this, which again, shows a lack of knowledge, again disputing you. And clearly you are intellegent enough to observe this that, yes, Satan is just the name given to "evil". Which is also part of god because Satan was made by him. Its almost like that episode of The Fairly Odd Parents where Timmy wishes he had no emotions. So all of his emotions split into their own forms and into a box. Satan is like the evil part of god in a "human" form. Average christians cant make this observation and focus too much on Satan being a real thing and evil and he'll trick you and take your soul and blah blah blah. I blame the mainstream of christianity which focuses too much on this. Its gotten too literal.
I was particularly puzzled in your rebuttal when you mentioned "I don't know where your getting your ideas that satanism is usually a selfish and antisocial thing." and you calling this a "hasty generalization". Meanwhile, you posted in this same debate that Satanism "preaches putting yourself and your priorities above others". Your post describing Satanism defines selfish and antisocial behavior.
I wasnt as articulate and specific as i should have been and i apologize. I did explain better in part one to this rebuttal that i did last night. It is not really selfish. It's smart. What is being selfish? The word implies that it is being self serving maliciously. For instance, not respecting others and eating a whole pie before anyone else can have any. Or not dropping a few dollars in the boot for the firehouse. This is selfish.
Satanism teaches to put your needs above those of others. NEED is the key word. Not want. What do we NEED? Food, water, shelter, money, job's, ect. These are necessary to modern life and survival in general. So, it doesnt make sense to donate to charity when you yourself are struggling to stay afloat. Or taking time off from work to assist in hurricane relief when you need the money for work. It is not being selfish to put needs above others.
I do applaud you for your efforts and community service. (Incidentally, Christians are told to do good acts in secret. This helps keep a Christians' focus on his mission for good and not self promotion.)
Dont get me wrong, i dont go around and gloat and boast about what i do. That wasnt my intention. I was meerly using those things to show that you made a hasty generalization of satanists being antisocial and selfish. I dont fit this and neither do most satanists. And surely they dont brag about it either.
Christianity teaches that we must focus on the greater good and have Faith we will be provided for. This is a COMPLETELY selfless doctrine and, believe me when I say, it is beautiful to see people who have totally dedicated themselves to the greater good.
Selfless yet for a purpose that is not purely for the sake of being selfless. Theres always that subservience and reward piece. Nagging as it may be. It isnt completely selfless.
You hoped I was joking that Christianity is a minority. I was not. The fact is that Christians only account for 33% of religious believers. It may be one of the top 5 religions and it may dwarf Satanism in membership, but 33% is still not a majority. It is just a math thing, not a joke.
Yes but what are the religions in question here? Christianity and satanism. So, we should only be comparing these two as we have been. And compared to satanism christianity is MASSIVE. Therfore it isnt right to judge satanism based on the good it can do because christianity has a clear advantage economically and population wise.
I can understand why a Satanist must enjoy this debate. A self serving religion is certainly threatened by putting other first or social welfare. I have read tenants of many other religions, including Satanism. I can see great qualities in all of them and some matters with which I do not agree. I can also understand how some people may question Christianity. However, if the debate is about adding up Christianity and Satanism in a head to head comparison, then the choice is clearly pro-Christianity. Just as some people still actually spend money on Blackberry phones, one cannot argue with a preference.
I completely disagree and have stated why. LOL blackberry phones such. Stupid little buttons. What im saying is Christianity is no I-phone. It too has many, many flaws. Its like a nokia... so many flaws, but it appears to be indestructible...
Also for the record I don't think either of us can win this debate. We both have totally legit support for our sides. I think we can agree to disagree. I have tremendous respect for you and your opinions. This debate has been and is really fun because it's intelligent and enlightening. I can tell you do your homework and know what you're talking about. You debate very professionally and that's a nice change from the usual half assed arguments I'm used to.
By saying this im not declaring checkmate on you due to my last rebuttals and I'm also not accepting defeat ( ;) )
by any means. These were just my thoughts and I thought you should know.
Look what Revelation 19:11-21 and Revelation 20:1-10 says. The Heavenly Warrior Defeats the Beast
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
king of kings and lord of lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
The Thousand Years
20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
The Judgment of Satan
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Doesnt this scare you satanists?? burning and suffering for eternity with no rest, hasnt Satan put you through enough hell in your lives?? Isnt it time to give Jesus Christ a chance, because He loves everyone, including you satanists. John 3:16-17 says "16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
Jesus said in Matthew 11:28-30 "“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Doesnt that sound way better than following Satan who has no care for his followers??? Satan only needs followers to get to his goal, once he reaches that goal(God will never allow this to happen), his followers will be no use to him anymore. satan is using you, he does not love you and he hates you.
I believe the Bible makes it clear that there are only two choices. God or Satan. I choose God because HE loves me and everyone else on the planet. HE died for everyone here. HE rose again and is sitting at God's right hand :D
God created Lucifer , therefore God is more powerful than the devil. you satanists want to please your lusts because you guys are selfish like the devil himself and Can't handle the truth.
there is nothing progressive or good about Satanism. the CoS is an evil group of thugs. most of them are fallen Christians who for some reason became angry with God, so they are like little petulant children playing dress-up and trying to thumb their nose at him like a little kid who is sent to his room and flips off his Dad behind closed doors.
Satanism will kill you and following the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and using them to help others and Know God can Save you. So there is really no comparison here.
Loveeildren nothing wrong in principle with the philosophy of Satanism that says we ought to pursue pleasure (or, for that matter, self-interest). I would go so far as to say that we can agree with the Satanist that it is natural (which is to say, it is part of our nature) to pursue pleasure. The problem is that the Satanist draws the line of what is permissible in the wrong place or draws no line at all. Christians are not obligated to defend the notion that humans exist only to deny ourselves all pleasure; indeed, it is just the opposite: we exist for the experience of pleasure. Perhaps pleasure is a misleading term. Philosophers like Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas used the term happiness, .33 Christian thinker, C. S. Lewis used the term joy.34
The problem is not that we as humans seek our own pleasure, happiness, or joy. The problem is that we as sinners look for it in the wrong places. Consider this analogy: Children always seek to eat only what tastes good to them. We, as adults, regret this in children and seek to wean them of this tendency. It is not that we adults think that eating should not include things that taste good. It is that we know that not everything that tastes good is good or is even food in the first place. Children’s understanding of nutrition and their tastes are not developed, however; therefore, they invariably resist eating what is good for them and desire what is not good for them or is even harmful. If children ate according to the philosophy of Satanism, then they would never deny themselves whatever tastes good regardless whether it has any nutritional value, like cotton candy, or, worse, they would eat something that tastes good but is poison. They also would refuse to eat what is good for them, all the while mocking and ridiculing those who did so eat.
If we think of eating as an analogy of living one’s life, and good and bad tastes as an analogy of pleasures and pains, then perhaps we can see that what we as humans need to learn is to recognize and appreciate what actually is good for us. Perhaps what we, like children, need is for our understanding and tastes to develop so that we learn to love what is good for us. What the Christian understands but the Satanist does not is that there is something wrong with us. We fallen humans too often find pleasure in what is not in our best interest or is evil. The problem, however, is not the experience of pleasure itself. The problem is in us: we choose the wrong things to satisfy our desire for pleasure. What we need is somehow to come to love the taste of what is intrinsically good and what is in our ultimate best interest.35 This is where God comes in. We need to “taste and see that the Lord is good; Blessed is the man who trusts in Him!PS(Ps. 34:8).
What we need to help the Satanist see is that the pleasures of life that he (or she) so desperately seek are found ultimately only in his Creator.36 We are created to know God and “enjoy Him forever,” as the Westminster Larger and Shorter Catechisms say. Convincing a Satanist of this is, of course, not necessarily an easy task. If no one can see his need for God apart from the work of the Holy Spirit, then this is especially the case with the Satanist. In addition, getting the Satanist to see the truth of Psalm 16:11 — “You will show me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore — also requires getting him to see a host of other truths, such as the fact that there are a God and an afterlife. This means that we must be prepared to defend the truths of the Christian faith and show that not only experience but also reason demonstrate the reality of the God of the Bible, the truthfulness of His word, and the meaning of the historical life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus.
With the help of the Holy Spirit, the Satanist may come to see that his own pursuit of pleasure is, in reality, a rebellion against the God who made him, for which he needs to be forgiven. Then the stage will be set for him to be delivered “from the power of darkness and conveyed into the kingdom of the Son of His love” (Col. 1:13). This is what the Satanist needs. This is indeed what we all need.
