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Debate Info

6
2
Pro Con
Debate Score:8
Arguments:8
Total Votes:8
Ends:07/28/21
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 Pro (6)
 
 Con (2)

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Scotland and Northern Ireland Shouldn't be Allowed to Secede, Let Alone Do It

I don't believe that Scotland and Northern Ireland should be allowed to secede. Not to mention I don't think doing so would be beneficial overall. This is the argument I will be making.

Scotland and Northern Ireland are "countries" that are part of the UK, Which itself is officially a political union between 2 countries (England, Scotland), 1 principality (Wales) and 1 province (NI), But acts as a unified nation. I put "countries" in quotes due to the fact that even though the former two have control over their domestic affairs, The UK as a whole controls the foreign policy. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU despite the rest of the UK voting against them, And both of the former have very strong independent movements. A large part is due to the fact is due to a couple reasons -

1. The UK continues to entertain the idea of parts of its territory leaving and becoming independent.

2. The UK is split into 4 smaller independent countries/provinces, While most other nations are split into many more provinces. For reference, France has 18 while Italy has 20. The UK has more subdivisions as well, But they are under the full control of the 4 countries/province/principality.



Pro

Side Score: 6
VS.

Con

Side Score: 2

I don't believe that Scotland and Northern Ireland should be allowed to secede. Not to mention I don't think doing so would be beneficial overall. This is the argument I will be making.

Scotland and Northern Ireland are "countries" that are part of the UK, Which itself is officially a political union between 2 countries (England, Scotland), 1 principality (Wales) and 1 province (NI), But acts as a unified nation. I put "countries" in quotes due to the fact that even though the former two have control over their domestic affairs, The UK as a whole controls the foreign policy. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU despite the rest of the UK voting against them, And both of the former have very strong independent movements. A large part is due to the fact is due to a couple reasons -

1. The UK continues to entertain the idea of parts of its territory leaving and becoming independent.

2. The UK is split into 4 smaller independent countries/provinces, While most other nations are split into many more provinces. For reference, France has 18 while Italy has 20. The UK has more subdivisions as well, But they are under the full control of the 4 countries/province/principality.

Side: Pro

The first point is quite simple. The Uk government can choose to either set the bar for seccession much higher than it already is, Or it can outlaw secession altogether. Option B is an option taken by most nations around the world including the USA. This option is still much better than what the UK has now, But the main problem is that there isn't a way to alert a nation when a region is too economically and politically disconnected from the rest of the country, Until it's too late. Option A is the more preferable option, Since actual succession is unlikely, But if there's a serious problem that a region has with the country at large, The problem will have to be examined and solved. Canada for instance has a supreme court ruling stating what succession would mean for Quebec, Once the 2nd and last referendum failed. The opinion of the court was that Quebec couldn't secede unilaterally based on a referendum. In addition, If secession did happen, The people of Quebec would be allowed to use Canadian passports, Will have to take their share of the national debt, And other clarifications. Once this clarification was made, Quebec never had another referendum, Nor expressed a desire for one.

Side: Pro

Moving to the second reason why the UK is caught up in independence fever is the observation of the UK's division between the 4 countries. Most countries, Have many more divisions, Including countries comparable to the UK's size like France and Italy. The division of England, Wales, Scotland and NI into smaller bodies would accomplish this goal of dealing with the larger issue of secession.

Ideologically, Neither Scotland nor Northern Ireland has a right to secede. Some will point to the fact that Scotland was an independent country when it joined England and Wales to become Great Britain in 1707. To refute this point, We can look at the USA. Several states have once been independent countries at one point including, Vermont, Hawaii and my home state of Texas. None of these states have the right to secede and the vast majority here accept that. Just because one was a nation when going in doesn't mean that the territory now annexed has or should have the ability to leave whenever they want. The nation will go through good times and will also go through bad times, But we will go through them together, That's what makes a nation.

Side: Pro
1 point

The one and only acceptable criterion for the withdrawal from the U.K., of either of these two states is for all parties to respond positively to the will of the majority of the people.

This system of ''government by the people, for the people'' is called;- DEMOCRACY

Scotland was an independent nation before being conquered by the English sometime in the 1700S but unlike the 'Republic of Ireland' Northern Ireland was never in its separate state a truly independent country.

All other opinions are nothing more than pretentious and meaningless BRAVADO GASCONADES.

Side: Pro
1 point

Oh yes, Hi Nomshit,

As usual I note you've gone for quantity rather than quality.

But, nevertheless it's good to have you back.

Side: Con