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Debate Info

35
15
Yes No
Debate Score:50
Arguments:26
Total Votes:60
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (16)
 
 No (10)

Debate Creator

Tugman(749) pic



Should Congress read the new healthcare bill?

Do you think congress should read the proposed bill or take each other's word for it?

Yes

Side Score: 35
VS.

No

Side Score: 15
5 points

Wait, hold on, let me put on my Nostradamus wizard's cap...

okay I'm ready,

I predict that you up in the woods of Alaska have been getting the brunt of the "death panel" and other similar false rumors...

I feel... yes, yes, that when faced with the question of whether if these crazy things are in the bill are asked about, you've heard a lot of "we don't know."

I feel there is a lot of fear of government... I'm sensing even more fear of liberals... I'm sensing people are having a lot of wet dreams about some kind of "revolution" ...

UGH! AAAAAH! IT'S TOO DARK! IT'S TOO SCARY! IT'S TOO... goddamn stupid, here I'm taking my cap off.

Yes, of course every member of congress is going to read and be sure they understand everything that is in the bill. Yes, every member of congress is very aware of everything that is currently in all of the proposed versions of the bill.

No, there is no secret plot to... do whatever crazy people think government is going to do once healthcare reform is enacted.

Side: yes
JakeJ(3254) Disputed
1 point

Yes, of course every member of congress is going to read and be sure they understand everything that is in the bill. Yes, every member of congress is very aware of everything that is currently in all of the proposed versions of the bill.

You sound so confident. Why?

I think that you are just biased because you like the bill.

I predict that you up in the woods of Alaska have been getting the brunt of the "death panel" and other similar false rumors...

Of course you would love to assume that.

No, there is no secret plot to... do whatever crazy people think government is going to do once healthcare reform is enacted.

Again with the confidence. Your bias is leading you to have such confidence because you like to be on the Democrat side.

Side: yes
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
4 points

Well, it's only funny to people who know how retarded these accusations are. Being the butt of a joke is never funny to the butt,

anyway,

You sound so confident. Why?

I think that you are just biased because you like the bill.

Because that is their job. The only time a representative doesn't read a bill is if they already know they are not going to vote for it no matter what. It's important not only to the people representing them that they know exactly what is really in a bill, but it's also important for their re-election efforts, so that people can't come back and say "oh yeah, how come you voted for this!" referring to one line of a 2000 page bill. Hence, they do know everything in every bill before signing it, they have interns and employees and lawyers going over each bill also, to cover their own backs.

Sure, they may later lie, and say "I didn't know, I didn't read it," but that is only because it's too hard to explain they did know, but felt that the overall bill was worth compromising that one line they didn't like, or explaining that they signed it because they like that part, but don't want you to know they liked that part, because you don't like that part...

Of course you would love to assume that.

Well, either I assume that, or I assume tugman began a completely pointless and infantile debate, for no sensible reason whatsoever, so yeah, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and assumed he's been misinformed.

Again with the confidence. Your bias is leading you to have such confidence because you like to be on the Democrat side.

I also know that 911 wasn't a conspiracy, that Oswald shot JFK, that we really did land on the moon, non of which have anything to do with any political affiliation.

I would be a moron if I went around thinking there was an Orwellian conspiracy to turn the US into a socialist nation. Hence, since given that I believe I myself would be a moron for such unfounded paranoia, I can only fairly assume anyone who does believe in this Orwellian theory,

which includes death panels and all of the other hocus pocus going around moron circles,

is a moron.

So yes, I am positive there is no conspiracy.

Side: yes
2 points

Jake, answer me this:

Do you really think that there is a large portion of America that wants this nation to become socialist?

I certainly don't, and I've yet to talk to anyone (whose views are considered liberal), that does.

The argument is not about socialism vs. capitalism. It's about slightly more regulated capitalism vs. slightly less regulated capitalism.

In addition, we can see examples of nations that have slightly more regulated capitalism, and how their healthcare works (a.k.a. most of western Europe). Turns out it works pretty well. Most of the nations in western Europe have higher ranked healthcare systems than the U.S. Source: World Healthcare Organization Rankings

More importantly, since this is a democracy, and the majority of the populace doesn't want a socialist system, guess what? We're never going to have a socialist system! (Huray!)

It would be healthy for you to hear political opinions that didn't come from the far right wing every once in a while...then maybe you wouldn't be convinced of these conspiracies to turn America into something no one wants (just saying).

Side: yes
JakeJ(3254) Disputed
0 points

that was stupid and not funny

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Side: No
Tugman(749) Disputed
-1 points

I do not live in the woods. I do not fear the government or liberals. What I do fear however is that Congress passes the bill and it fails the America will collapse as well as the best healthcare system on earth,

Side: yes
3 points

Wait...you think the U.S. has the best healthcare system on earth?

22,000 people died in the U.S. from lack of coverage. source.

People are often denied healthcare because of their financial situation or pre-existing conditions.

In fact, the World Health Organization ranked the U.S. 37th when it comes to healthcare. Source. That's only two spots in front of Cuba!

What you'll notice about the countries ahead of us is that they usually offer universal healthcare to all of their citizens.

Side: yes
ledhead818(637) Disputed
3 points

"What I do fear however is that Congress passes the bill and it fails the America will collapse"

Okay Miss Teen South Carolina 2007.

"...as well as the best healthcare system on earth"

I think you mean the 37th best health care system on earth. And one of the worst of all industrialized nations. That is according to the World Health Organization. But you probably know more about world health than the World Health Organization.

Side: yes
2 points

Why is this a question? No offense, but seriously? Is anyone going to legitimately argue for the other side? I don't think so. This "debate" is absolutely meaningless.

Side: yes

The healthcare reform bill is huge and it would behoove all people in Congress to read it. How can you make an intllegent argument if you rely on another person's version of things.

Side: yes

Not reading the health care bill and signing it into law is like signing a contract without reading it. In other words, it is a stupid thing to do.

Side: yes

That's what I pay them for. If they aren't reading the bills then they aren't doing their jobs. And if they have someone summarize the bill for them, that's complete crap. As an English graduate, I can summarize just about anything, and in my summary, subtly sway your opinion of it to whatever I wish.

Side: yes
1 point

When taking the solemn oath to become a senator, or a representative not of the state you were elected in, but by the people who made it possible for you to be a part of the Legislative Branch of Government, I believe that one of the promises you have hence made, is to not vote Yea or Nay on a bill which could fundamentally change the order of the country for better or for worse swiftly and without thinking. I believe not just in this bill, but in all bills that come into the great chamber of the House and of the Senate on capitol hill, that it is the right and the duty of the congressman or women to ponder carefully of his/her actions, and of what her choice shall be, concerning any piece of legislation. Therefore it is the only logical verdict in my mind, and this is why I say yes. Congressmen/women should read the health care bill, and all bills. It is there sworn responsibility, not their staff's or assistant's.

Side: yes
1 point

They really should because although their staff do, they are the one that can make a difference.

Side: yes

Yes every one affected should know what the bill is. Especially since there is such a hoopla about it.

Sharon

~The Baby Boomer Queen~

Side: yes
1 point

Of course not. :) What you fail to realize is that most Congressmen and women don't even read bills. Their staffs do. They provide summaries to them in which they vote off of the summary. You don't believe me? See the video for yourself. They actually did that in Congress. Shame, isn't it? Glenn Beck isn't as crazy as you think he is, at least in some areas. :)

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Seriously though, you cannot tell me that all of the recent legislation that was passed, 2,000 some odd pages, was read word for word by each and every congress member.

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Here is the entire video on C-Span for your pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1q1EoglEBY

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Congress is a joke, literally.

Congress Reading
Side: No
jessald(1915) Disputed
3 points

First, Republicans weren't demanding that the bill be read, they demanded that it be read aloud.

Second, even with the speed-reader it would have taken a full working day to recite the whole thing. No one would have been listening anyway.

Third, Congress was just about to leave for the Memorial Day recess. It was clearly a stall tactic.

Fourth, Beck claims the media didn't report this, which is bullshit. I remember seeing it reported on CNN the day it happened.

Supporting Evidence: Dems hire speed reader for climate change bill (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com)
Side: yes
asdf789(349) Disputed
0 points

First, It was originally 648 pages and then ballooned to over 900 at the last few hours. Republicans wanted it read because they knew Congress couldn't have read it in the 12 hour deadline.

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Second, If it takes a full working day for a speed-reader to read it, how long do you think it takes Congressmen and women to read it with their busy schedules? They don't have the time, therefore they have their staffs read the bills for them.

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Third, why did Congress try to push the 900+ page bill through by Memorial Day anyway? What's the hurry? There is none. They should have taken time to read the bill, show it to the public for at least 24 hours, and then vote. Not push stuff through because you have a majority in both houses.

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Fourth, I agree, but that was not a point in my arguments. Congress doesn't read bills, their staffs read them.

Side: No
1 point

Wasn't able to edit, but has anyone actually taken a look at the health care bill yet? Here is a link to it:

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

If your Congressmen and women [supposedly] read it, so can you! :)

Side: No