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Should "Under God" removed from the pledge of allegiance?
People claim that "under God" is so offensive that it should be removed entirely from the Pledge of Allegiance. But should it? They don't have to say it, but can everyone else say it if they want to? Is it really so offensive to the point that it's harmful to human rights? There is such thing as freedom of speech. Is there? Because if it's removed because it's offensive to non-believers then "liberty and justice to all" could also be removed because racist people find it "offensive".
It hurts me in the deepest places. If it had always been like that, if it had ALWAYS included "One nation under God", I would be fine.
But the fact that they ADDED it because of a fear of "godless communism"... The fact that they ruined a beautiful statement because of fear.
That is a cowardly thing to do. If God had been evident, as in, if I could ask a theist for proof and they said "Sure, here's the proof" and that proof convinced me, it would be fine, but because it is completely and utterly based on faith, rather than evidence of logic, the fact that you add that to a country's Pledge of Allegiance, a nation founded on secular principles, founded by deists, people who did not believe in the Christian god... That is offensive beyond anything else.
Christians are a plague who do nothing but spread their mind destroying filth. And how do they back it up?
So the fact that our country made a move to make its citizens feel better is the reason it shouldnt be there? Think about the ideology of Americans in the 50s; most were christian oriented as a lot are now. Why is it unacceptable for a government to embrace it's citizens beliefs to ease the hysteria of communism? It was thoughtful of them to do so; it raised us up and united us. Now the added phrase is a part of Americas legacy, we came together and out classed the Soviets to preserve the idea of the American dream...It was good for the country.
I take the pledge of allegiance very seriously, and inserting a lie in the middle of it really invalidates the whole thing. Why is it in there in the first place anyway? It has nothing to do with your allegiance to the country. It wasn't in the original version, it was only added by christians to lord their religion over everyone else. It's the christians who need to "lighten up" and quite trying to force their religion on other people.
What if we put the words "under Allah" into the pledge and told christians, "well, you don't have to actually say it", how would christians feel? And don't tell me it's not the same thing, because it is exactly the same thing.
First God has a lot to do with our country. Without his help this country would not have formed. I believe there is a lot of material on it. I suggest "The Seven Miracles That Saved America".
Your second paragraph is wrong. Allah is the Islam God. Who they worship. Islam is a monotheistic religion. Also, Christianity has to do with Christ and it doesn't say "under Christ" .
I would also like to point out that many of our founding fathers believed in God and a lot of them were not Christian.
How can you state as fact that God had a lot to do with our country when it is certainly not an agreed upon premise that God even exists? Do you expect me to respond with "oh, of course, how silly of me, I must have been mistaken"?
Also, I think you're missing the point of my second paragraph. I could have as easily said "under Thor", or "under Hillary Clinton". My point was to show that the words mean something, and it isn't okay to just say them without meaning it.
No, I can not make you say anything. Yes under God has a lot to do with faith. If you don't believe in him then go against Him. However, I will stand by His side.
Who the hell just downvoted all my arguments and left no explanation?
If you don't like me personally, then message me.
If you disagree with me, say so.
If my argument is too shitty to talk about, then downvote, but I have quite a few talking points. I'm sure you can civilly debate me, and if you're right, then you can win.
Just for clarification, "Under God" was added, "One Nation" had been there.
I'm honestly more offended about why they added it than I am about them violating Separation of Church and State by adding "Under God".
Because not only did they violate the separation of Church and State but they did it because they were playing an immature game of "I'm better than you, you dirty, godless Commi's". Way to represent America guys, that when you comes down to it, we'll be the country sticking our tongue out and screaming "neener neener neener".
I'm not American, but if i lived in a country founded on secularism with "freedom of religion" in the constitution, I'd get pissed off about being made to pledge allegiance to any god.
Also, why are children made to pledge allegiance to America, it sounds like some kind of thing they'd make people do in a dictatorship.
You don't have to say it and you don't have to believe in it. People are making the word God too specific, it refers to a higher power, not any god in particular. Im an American and I recognize the way things used to be and thats our legacy. 50 years ago America was characterized by Christian values and it was reflected in our government; there has been a shift in ideology, but who cares?
People are making the word God too specific, it refers to a higher power, not any god in particular.
That's not fair to anyone who are atheist or agnostic in a country that claims religious freedom. Religion needs to be separated from anything in government if that is their goal. The government needs to stay neutral.
but who cares?
People in America who want to be free of a government that is run by religion. And obviously enough to make this debate
It's not pledging allegiance to a God, it's pledging allegiance to a flag.
All the Pledge says is that this nation is under God... that pretty much means nothing.
As well, I find it more of a problem to indoctrinate our children into pledging allegiance to a symbol of power. The last thing children need is to believe that loyalty to their country is important.
I believe that people should not say the Pledge at all in any government sanctioned event, but I will just focus on this line. It was not even part of the original pledge. Since communists were against religion, it was added during the Red Scare. Had it been part of the original pledge, I would have no problem with it being in, but it was added as a form of American propaganda, and it can't even be argued that it is a traditional part of the pledge.
Very offensive. Some Americans don't necessarily have to believe in God. Our country is not a theocracy. Its a democracy, well at least that's what it was supposed to be.
Take god off the money and out of the pledge. Separation of church and state, for one thing. The obvious contradiction in atheists partaking in this pledge, for another.
I agree America claims it has Religous Freedom but forces God on it's citizens with the Pledge and Money, so Atheist's are forced to acknowledge God every time they buy something which is just not right, no wonder so many of them are angry
I know that and it doesn't matter.... since 1954 now makes it tradition! For the past 20 years my family has been getting together on Independence day, before that we got together on Memorial Day... is our getting together on the 4th not tradition? Poppycock!
As an atheist you know that religion is bad and promoting it is bad. How can you say it is okay to have "One nation under God" there if it promotes religion?
Well, first of all, I'm not the one who down-voted you... there seems to be a mad down-voter on the loose today.
Second, who are you to say what kind of atheist I should be? That makes you no better than the religious nuts trying to push their shit down people's throats, IMO.
And, how is "One nation under God" promoting religion? If I say "nip it in the bud" am I promoting the destruction of all flowers? Now, I know that's not exactly the same thing I just don't see this as a big deal. It didn't turn me to religion and I've been saying it since first grade.
Second, who are you to say what kind of atheist I should be? That makes you no better than the religious nuts trying to push their shit down people's throats, IMO.
An atheist who promotes religion, partly anyway. Wow, didn't see that coming.
How did religion come to be with this kind of influence? By pushing it down people's throats and up their asses. That might well be the only way to get rid of it, this is where you look toward Islamic countries, mainly.
And, how is "One nation under God" promoting religion?
Back in 1954 humanity was far more religious than it is now. I am very certain the God they meant was Christian God, as most of US is and was Christian.
The word God is affiliated with religion, almost always (that almost is definitely not below 95% of the times, in fact I doubt it is below 99.9%). If not religious then there is no need for that word.
A country should remain neutral in those terms. Having something like that clearly says otherwise. It should say something everyone can relate to, not just some specific groups.
It didn't turn me to religion and I've been saying it since first grade.
If something good happens do you also say "thank God for blahblah?" Or if someone arrives to some place just in time for something while their arrival was uncertain, do you then say "thank God they made it?"
An atheist who promotes religion, partly anyway. Wow, didn't see that coming.
I am not promoting anything, religion or atheism.
Back in 1954 humanity was far more religious than it is now
Exactly, so having "One nation under God" in the pledge isn't converting anyone to religion.
If something good happens do you also say "thank God for blahblah?" Or if someone arrives to some place just in time for something while their arrival was uncertain, do you then say "thank God they made it?"
Sure... I've said "thank god" before. It's an expression... so what? I've also said goddamn... it's not converting anyone to religion. I've also said "the devil is in the details" So? Who cares? These are expressions many people use and other pick up... it's not a big deal.
This is why I rarely debate religion on this site, it's just not that important to me. Everyone is entitled to believe in whatever they want.
Exactly, so having "One nation under God" in the pledge isn't converting anyone to religion.
It keeps reminding the idea of a God in a sense that it definitely exists while that is false.
Sure... I've said "thank god" before. It's an expression... so what? I've also said goddamn... it's not converting anyone to religion. I've also said "the devil is in the details" So? Who cares? These are expressions many people use and other pick up... it's not a big deal.
Using expressions that in their essence say something that doesn't exist, or has a much bigger probability of not existing, exists, is a big deal. Expressing your emotions toward something that does not exist is wrong. Aim them at what really caused it or did it.
Everyone is entitled to believe in whatever they want.
And in religion it is not something they "want", it is something they were taught since birth, they never had the chance to really be themselves. Huge difference.
So? First, I don't claim to be an Atheist, I am Atheist. Second, I don't have to promote anything I believe.
It keeps reminding the idea of a God in a sense that it definitely exists while that is false.
Bullshit!! Get a grip.
Using expressions that in their essence say something that doesn't exist, or has a much bigger probability of not existing, exists, is a big deal. Expressing your emotions toward something that does not exist is wrong. Aim them at what really caused it or did it.
That's just stupid. Clearly you want to limit freedom of speech and that's sad and to the extreme! The fucking Tooth Fairy doesn't exist but if someone believes in it or talks about it, it's not the end of the world.
And in religion it is not something they "want", it is something they were taught since birth, they never had the chance to really be themselves. Huge difference.
Again, bullshit! People are stupid, but they're not as stupid as you seem to think.
One nation under God. As if God was actually real. It does not say "... under a possible, although there's no evidence, God" or rather "... under a God that might or might not be". It says "... under God".
Clearly you want to limit freedom of speech and that's sad and to the extreme!
Not limit but set things straight.
The fucking Tooth Fairy doesn't exist but if someone believes in it or talks about it, it's not the end of the world.
Not the end, simply toward a fucked up one.
Those expressions come directly from religion. And they are meant to be directed toward God, even if all people don't think about that part and they use them simply because they've heard others use them.
Again, bullshit! People are stupid, but they're not as stupid as you seem to think.
Then why is religion so prominent and why do so many (more than half of humanity) follow it?
I'm reasonable... I can agree with that but removing "one nation under gawd" from our pledge isn't going to change that. Islam only respects one thing... force! And if they continue to try to kill us then we have to kill them!
I also disagree. Although I heavily attack religion, and give religious people just the smallest sliver of credibility in my mind, I don't think I'm as anti-theist as you seem to be.
I don't really mind, people like you are helpful for my cause, but really, to completely attack religion makes enemies, and hate and fear is the best way to remain ignorant.
Religion gives people a place in the world and also enable them to have guidance throughout their lives. I have met many a happy christian, I have also met happy Muslims. Religion is a positive influence in peoples lives; Yes, sometimes people can take it too far, but just because there are extremists doesn't mean that religion itself is a bad thing. Many wise men in history were affiliated with some sort of religion and most of our societies traditional values are Christian oriented. Christianity is in Americas legacy and I'm proud of this country. I am an Atheist of Logic and I support the idea of religion, don't be intolerant of things, because nobody should ever be too full of themselves to the point where they claim that reality is one way and only that way. I can almost guarantee that you hold a certain belief that stems from Christian ideology, because most Americans do. Promoting anything that can make someone happy is fine by me. And also, the word God can mean whatever you want it to be, you're just so insanely against religion that the word itself makes you cringe.
Religion gives people a place in the world and also enable them to have guidance throughout their lives.
A place in the world and guidance, both dictated by lies, is not a good thing. It is a very bad thing. (witchburning, crusades, inquisition, the suppression of science, and much more)
I chose my place and I guide myself. All that based on reality, not delusions.
I have met many a happy christian, I have also met happy Muslims.
Because they are avoiding reality with their religion. Everything that goes bad and wrong they consider as God did it. Instead they should learn from it, accept it and move on accordingly, not just ignore it by saying "it was Gods will." Shit happens with or without religion but religion keeps people ignorant and stupid, the rules of religion make that certain.
Religion is a positive influence in peoples lives; Yes, sometimes people can take it too far, but just because there are extremists doesn't mean that religion itself is a bad thing.
Religion is not a positive influence. You think shutting out and contradicting reality is a good thing? That's what religion requires.
All religion is negative. Simply look at history and what religion has done, and in fact look at present also. Because of it people are opposing proved facts like evolution, telling God created everything. Religion causes problems between people, because it gives so many more reasons to hate others, not to mention that religion requires people to be stupid. Smart and intelligent people (assuming they look at the world objectively) don't become religious.
Extremists? They are the true religious people, they follow their religion completely. Does religion not require absolute following in order to go to heaven? Well, at this point most seem to be going to hell, according to the idiotic rules.
Many wise men in history were affiliated with some sort of religion
You do realize if they had not been in relation with religion in older days they would have been killed, or just disabled somehow? The world was back then far more religious than it is now, almost every child was born into a religious family, thus they became also religious through teaching and raising.
and most of our societies traditional values are Christian oriented.
Religious traditions are the worst kind. Traditions based on lies.
Christianity is in Americas legacy and I'm proud of this country.
Sounds of brainwashing... Or simply stupid, or delusional.
I am an Atheist of Logic and I support the idea of religion, don't be intolerant of things
If you were an atheist of logic then you would not, in any situation, support religion. That is a fact that comes from logic. Religion has and still does only bad, because without it things would be much better, because people would be much smarter. Instead of hoping for some nonexistent god they would hope for and ask help from others around them and actually do instead of praying.
I shouldn't be intolerant of something as negative as religion? Luckily religion is slowly dying, if you leave out Islamic countries. The more opposition it has the faster it dies.
because nobody should ever be too full of themselves to the point where they claim that reality is one way and only that way.
I know what is real and what is not, but not according to religion which itself is completely false.
Religion does not support reality, that is a fact (is Earth 6000 years old? No!). It's only purpose is to keep people stupid and obedient and under control. Religion's rules prohibit freedom of thought, if you think or act in a wrong way according to those rules, or you oppose your religion even slightly, you will go to hell.
I can almost guarantee that you hold a certain belief that stems from Christian ideology, because most Americans do.
So wrong. I was raised without any influence of religion. Plus I'm not American.
Promoting anything that can make someone happy is fine by me.
You can be happy without religion and at the same time have happiness based on reality not lies. Being happy on the expense of freedom of thought, not to mention you could easily have that and know how things really are (how the world really works) and be happy, is not worth it. Unless you actually want to be a delusional idiot. But what sane person would want that? Even insane people don't want that.
And also, the word God can mean whatever you want it to be, you're just so insanely against religion that the word itself makes you cringe.
Wrong. The "word of god" is dictated by religion, it is not something you make up. And yes, the word itself raises disgust in me. Because it has a too strong connection with religion.
Instead of having rules dictated to you why not make your own rules? The kind you can change any time without fearing the trip to hell. Not to mention those rules would be based on reality, not delusions.
An atheist that promotes religion... the worst kind. Even religious people aren't that bad.
One nation under God doesnt necessarily have to have any sort of religious affiliation. God is an idea, people just associate the word with Christianity. Most of us love our country and I think singing about it being divinely favored is just traditional. "Under God" just shows that we are humble.
Humble? I fail to see how we are humble by adding "under god" to what was a secular pledge.
If America was a humble country, then would we be the world authority? The people who can invade a country for oil, and have so much power, that no one dares question us? We added "under god" because of fear of communism, and so we fought against it. I do not support communism, but I am certainly against irrational fear.
Adding "under god" might make us THINK we are a humble nation, but our actions speak louder than words. Especially words added decades after the original, which made perfect sense.
You cannot characterize the people of a nation by the decisions its government officials make. Count how many people are against the wars we have been in recently. The ideas of the people and of the government are 2 different things. In a perfect world, they are the same, but that is not how American democracy works. Adding under God may have been added to fight communism, but I said it was traditional because most countries make references to God in their national anthems and pledges. I see it as humble because under god infers that we are at will to good graces. Its like saying, " We know that we are at the will of God, the universe, luck, or whatever you believe. Like I said, God is an idea and it can mean whatever you think it does. How is being the world power mean we arent humble? We do whatever we can to aid other countries even in times when we should be focusing on our home. We understand that our high state of living depends on other countries dependance on us. We do our best to do what is best. Maybe the republican warhawks arent humble, but in my opinion most average people are.
When the nation is a democracy, I can criticize the people.
The Constitution was written so that people would have power, yet they let it get taken away.
Because they do not fight to get it back, I will judge them as weak people. Because the people they allow to lead them are foolish warhawks, I will consider those people foolish warhawks as well.
In the end, a person makes a decision. Either accept what happens and obey authority, or make your own decision to make the world a better place.
And even though many countries do reference a god, America was not founded by kings who had authority because of the divine will of God. The USA was never ruled by a church.
Christianity was founded to give people religious freedom, yet that is taken away when religious verses are added to what was once secular. If it had always been that way, it would be tradition, but because it was changed, distorting the entire meaning of it, I take offense.
Not being American it does'nt bother me, the thing that I find interesting is some Americans on here have a go at Britain saying it's bad because of having a State Religion which is incorrect England has the Church Of England not Britain and it is not compulsory (except for the Monarch) while in America the Pledge Of Allegience says One Nation Under God and In God We Trust on the money. So Americans have Religion foisted upon them sneakily by the backdoor
Exactly, believe what you believe. We have the right in both countries to embody what you believe. Just because you say something to be a patriot, doesn't mean you believe it. We don't say the pledge of allegiance to literally pledge allegiance everyday, it is just our way of being patriotic and is an American tradition. If you aren't down with people pushing their beliefs on others, let them read the pledge and choose for themselves whether they believe it or not.
Just because you say something to be a patriot, doesn't mean you believe it.
Excuse me? The Pledge of Allegiance is not just a bunch of words. It's saying that if someone attacks one part of the country, the rest of the country will rush to it's defense. If someone attacks New York, the Californians will fight and die to defend it, and they need to know that New Yorkers would do the same to defend California. Without this pledge, without knowing that others would die for you if you were attacked, why would you risk your life for them? It is the thing that holds us together as a nation. Without it, the states would be picked off one by one.
I know when you say it as a kid you're just saying it because someone told you to, but when you have to say it as an adult, like I did when my kids were in Cub Scouts, then you really start to think about the words and what they mean, and suddenly it becomes very important.
When a nation modifies a statement ALL Americans can agree with, to one that only Americans that believe in God can agree with 100%, that causes a division. For atheists, who were raised Christian, they likely have a small vendetta, so to mention that, just because they edited it to add it, feels offensive to me.
Again, if it had always been that way, I wouldn't mind, but the fact that they changed it does upset me.
I don't see the problem with have Under God in the pledge or for that matter any where. Thats the problem with people to day. Want to complain and moan about things that they say are offensive to them. Like Under God, But when the religious try to have there say, oh no cant have that, thats the problem with this nation. Everybody wants to complain but are not willing to go some where else. Why don't you just go were they don't have god in there pledge.....Oh but wait then you would just find something else to complain to mommy about. When did this society become a bunch of babies. Oh and by the way don't care if I mispelled anything or phrased something wrong. Grow Up move on, if you don't like it Leave its that simple.
Are you a Christian? If so, then your not seeing a problem with it is meaningless. That's like a child getting more candy than the other kids and saying that they don't see a problem with it and why are all the other children acting like babies.