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50
27
It's so offensive it hurts! No! They don't have to say it
Debate Score:77
Arguments:57
Total Votes:92
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 It's so offensive it hurts! (32)
 
 No! They don't have to say it (20)

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Titanic1912(4) pic



Should "Under God" removed from the pledge of allegiance?

People claim that "under God" is so offensive that it should be removed entirely from the Pledge of Allegiance. But should it? They don't have to say it, but can everyone else say it if they want to? Is it really so offensive to the point that it's harmful to human rights? There is such thing as freedom of speech. Is there? Because if it's removed because it's offensive to non-believers  then "liberty and justice to all" could also be removed because racist people find it "offensive". 

It's so offensive it hurts!

Side Score: 50
VS.

No! They don't have to say it

Side Score: 27
5 points

This is so offensive it actually does hurt me.

It hurts me in the deepest places. If it had always been like that, if it had ALWAYS included "One nation under God", I would be fine.

But the fact that they ADDED it because of a fear of "godless communism"... The fact that they ruined a beautiful statement because of fear.

That is a cowardly thing to do. If God had been evident, as in, if I could ask a theist for proof and they said "Sure, here's the proof" and that proof convinced me, it would be fine, but because it is completely and utterly based on faith, rather than evidence of logic, the fact that you add that to a country's Pledge of Allegiance, a nation founded on secular principles, founded by deists, people who did not believe in the Christian god... That is offensive beyond anything else.

Christians are a plague who do nothing but spread their mind destroying filth. And how do they back it up?

Faith.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!

Again, what you have said could not be closer to the truth! Thank you!

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
dkforizzle(175) Disputed
1 point

So the fact that our country made a move to make its citizens feel better is the reason it shouldnt be there? Think about the ideology of Americans in the 50s; most were christian oriented as a lot are now. Why is it unacceptable for a government to embrace it's citizens beliefs to ease the hysteria of communism? It was thoughtful of them to do so; it raised us up and united us. Now the added phrase is a part of Americas legacy, we came together and out classed the Soviets to preserve the idea of the American dream...It was good for the country.

Side: No! They don't have to say it
Emperor(1348) Disputed
1 point

Yes, but the communist hysteria was all government propaganda... you know that.

The government said "Fear communism!"

And then they provided a cure.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
RandomDude(1286) Clarified
0 points

It hurts me in the deepest places Eeeeeewwwwwwwwww!

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
3 points

I'm not even an American and it is offensive. Anything I see with something religious like that raises strong disgust in me.

That pledge basically claims that everyone considered under it is religious, which is not true. And that means it must be changed.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
3 points

I take the pledge of allegiance very seriously, and inserting a lie in the middle of it really invalidates the whole thing. Why is it in there in the first place anyway? It has nothing to do with your allegiance to the country. It wasn't in the original version, it was only added by christians to lord their religion over everyone else. It's the christians who need to "lighten up" and quite trying to force their religion on other people.

What if we put the words "under Allah" into the pledge and told christians, "well, you don't have to actually say it", how would christians feel? And don't tell me it's not the same thing, because it is exactly the same thing.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
Zingo79(6) Disputed
1 point

First God has a lot to do with our country. Without his help this country would not have formed. I believe there is a lot of material on it. I suggest "The Seven Miracles That Saved America".

Your second paragraph is wrong. Allah is the Islam God. Who they worship. Islam is a monotheistic religion. Also, Christianity has to do with Christ and it doesn't say "under Christ" .

I would also like to point out that many of our founding fathers believed in God and a lot of them were not Christian.

Side: No! They don't have to say it
LeRoyJames(372) Disputed
1 point

How can you state as fact that God had a lot to do with our country when it is certainly not an agreed upon premise that God even exists? Do you expect me to respond with "oh, of course, how silly of me, I must have been mistaken"?

Also, I think you're missing the point of my second paragraph. I could have as easily said "under Thor", or "under Hillary Clinton". My point was to show that the words mean something, and it isn't okay to just say them without meaning it.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
2 points

Who the hell just downvoted all my arguments and left no explanation?

If you don't like me personally, then message me.

If you disagree with me, say so.

If my argument is too shitty to talk about, then downvote, but I have quite a few talking points. I'm sure you can civilly debate me, and if you're right, then you can win.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!

Calm down lady. It happens to all of us. There is a serial down voter on CD but it doesn't take points away from you, only them so screw 'em!

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
1 point

Well, sure, but that takes the fun away from argument.

I mean, I couldn't care less in real life, but my persona on this debate site is sobbing.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
nummi(1435) Clarified
1 point

All your arguments? Actually ALL of them?

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
nummi(1435) Clarified
1 point

Got some of the same treatment ...

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
2 points

Just for clarification, "Under God" was added, "One Nation" had been there.

I'm honestly more offended about why they added it than I am about them violating Separation of Church and State by adding "Under God".

Because not only did they violate the separation of Church and State but they did it because they were playing an immature game of "I'm better than you, you dirty, godless Commi's". Way to represent America guys, that when you comes down to it, we'll be the country sticking our tongue out and screaming "neener neener neener".

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!

I'm not American, but if i lived in a country founded on secularism with "freedom of religion" in the constitution, I'd get pissed off about being made to pledge allegiance to any god.

Also, why are children made to pledge allegiance to America, it sounds like some kind of thing they'd make people do in a dictatorship.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
dkforizzle(175) Disputed
1 point

You don't have to say it and you don't have to believe in it. People are making the word God too specific, it refers to a higher power, not any god in particular. Im an American and I recognize the way things used to be and thats our legacy. 50 years ago America was characterized by Christian values and it was reflected in our government; there has been a shift in ideology, but who cares?

Side: No! They don't have to say it
Saurbaby(5579) Disputed
2 points

You don't have to say it

Some students are forced to say it.

People are making the word God too specific, it refers to a higher power, not any god in particular.

That's not fair to anyone who are atheist or agnostic in a country that claims religious freedom. Religion needs to be separated from anything in government if that is their goal. The government needs to stay neutral.

but who cares?

People in America who want to be free of a government that is run by religion. And obviously enough to make this debate

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
ThePyg(6736) Disputed
1 point

It's not pledging allegiance to a God, it's pledging allegiance to a flag.

All the Pledge says is that this nation is under God... that pretty much means nothing.

As well, I find it more of a problem to indoctrinate our children into pledging allegiance to a symbol of power. The last thing children need is to believe that loyalty to their country is important.

Side: No! They don't have to say it
1 point

I believe that people should not say the Pledge at all in any government sanctioned event, but I will just focus on this line. It was not even part of the original pledge. Since communists were against religion, it was added during the Red Scare. Had it been part of the original pledge, I would have no problem with it being in, but it was added as a form of American propaganda, and it can't even be argued that it is a traditional part of the pledge.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
1 point

Very offensive. Some Americans don't necessarily have to believe in God. Our country is not a theocracy. Its a democracy, well at least that's what it was supposed to be.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
-2 points
ChadOnSunday(1863) Clarified
1 point

This is officially my least popular post, ever... and I don't even know why. Great job with the constructive criticism, guys.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
1 point

I agree America claims it has Religous Freedom but forces God on it's citizens with the Pledge and Money, so Atheist's are forced to acknowledge God every time they buy something which is just not right, no wonder so many of them are angry

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
3 points

I'm atheist and I have no issue with it. It's tradition and I say it. People need to chill the f*ck out!

Side: No! They don't have to say it
Emperor(1348) Disputed
3 points

No, it's not tradition.

The original Pledge of Allegiance was originally written by Francis Bellamy in 1892 and had NO REFERENCE to a god whatsoever.

The part about "under god" was added in 1954.

The original version is

"I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Supporting Evidence: This is all on wikipedia, check it out (en.wikipedia.org)
Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
Hellno(17759) Disputed
2 points

I know that and it doesn't matter.... since 1954 now makes it tradition! For the past 20 years my family has been getting together on Independence day, before that we got together on Memorial Day... is our getting together on the 4th not tradition? Poppycock!

Side: No! They don't have to say it
nummi(1435) Disputed
-1 points

As an atheist you know that religion is bad and promoting it is bad. How can you say it is okay to have "One nation under God" there if it promotes religion?

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
Hellno(17759) Disputed
2 points

Well, first of all, I'm not the one who down-voted you... there seems to be a mad down-voter on the loose today.

Second, who are you to say what kind of atheist I should be? That makes you no better than the religious nuts trying to push their shit down people's throats, IMO.

And, how is "One nation under God" promoting religion? If I say "nip it in the bud" am I promoting the destruction of all flowers? Now, I know that's not exactly the same thing I just don't see this as a big deal. It didn't turn me to religion and I've been saying it since first grade.

Side: No! They don't have to say it
dkforizzle(175) Disputed
0 points

Religion gives people a place in the world and also enable them to have guidance throughout their lives. I have met many a happy christian, I have also met happy Muslims. Religion is a positive influence in peoples lives; Yes, sometimes people can take it too far, but just because there are extremists doesn't mean that religion itself is a bad thing. Many wise men in history were affiliated with some sort of religion and most of our societies traditional values are Christian oriented. Christianity is in Americas legacy and I'm proud of this country. I am an Atheist of Logic and I support the idea of religion, don't be intolerant of things, because nobody should ever be too full of themselves to the point where they claim that reality is one way and only that way. I can almost guarantee that you hold a certain belief that stems from Christian ideology, because most Americans do. Promoting anything that can make someone happy is fine by me. And also, the word God can mean whatever you want it to be, you're just so insanely against religion that the word itself makes you cringe.

Side: No! They don't have to say it
2 points

One nation under God doesnt necessarily have to have any sort of religious affiliation. God is an idea, people just associate the word with Christianity. Most of us love our country and I think singing about it being divinely favored is just traditional. "Under God" just shows that we are humble.

Side: No! They don't have to say it
Emperor(1348) Disputed
2 points

Humble? I fail to see how we are humble by adding "under god" to what was a secular pledge.

If America was a humble country, then would we be the world authority? The people who can invade a country for oil, and have so much power, that no one dares question us? We added "under god" because of fear of communism, and so we fought against it. I do not support communism, but I am certainly against irrational fear.

Adding "under god" might make us THINK we are a humble nation, but our actions speak louder than words. Especially words added decades after the original, which made perfect sense.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
dkforizzle(175) Disputed
1 point

You cannot characterize the people of a nation by the decisions its government officials make. Count how many people are against the wars we have been in recently. The ideas of the people and of the government are 2 different things. In a perfect world, they are the same, but that is not how American democracy works. Adding under God may have been added to fight communism, but I said it was traditional because most countries make references to God in their national anthems and pledges. I see it as humble because under god infers that we are at will to good graces. Its like saying, " We know that we are at the will of God, the universe, luck, or whatever you believe. Like I said, God is an idea and it can mean whatever you think it does. How is being the world power mean we arent humble? We do whatever we can to aid other countries even in times when we should be focusing on our home. We understand that our high state of living depends on other countries dependance on us. We do our best to do what is best. Maybe the republican warhawks arent humble, but in my opinion most average people are.

Side: No! They don't have to say it
1 point

Not being American it does'nt bother me, the thing that I find interesting is some Americans on here have a go at Britain saying it's bad because of having a State Religion which is incorrect England has the Church Of England not Britain and it is not compulsory (except for the Monarch) while in America the Pledge Of Allegience says One Nation Under God and In God We Trust on the money. So Americans have Religion foisted upon them sneakily by the backdoor

Side: No! They don't have to say it
1 point

Exactly, believe what you believe. We have the right in both countries to embody what you believe. Just because you say something to be a patriot, doesn't mean you believe it. We don't say the pledge of allegiance to literally pledge allegiance everyday, it is just our way of being patriotic and is an American tradition. If you aren't down with people pushing their beliefs on others, let them read the pledge and choose for themselves whether they believe it or not.

Side: No! They don't have to say it
LeRoyJames(372) Disputed
1 point

Just because you say something to be a patriot, doesn't mean you believe it.

Excuse me? The Pledge of Allegiance is not just a bunch of words. It's saying that if someone attacks one part of the country, the rest of the country will rush to it's defense. If someone attacks New York, the Californians will fight and die to defend it, and they need to know that New Yorkers would do the same to defend California. Without this pledge, without knowing that others would die for you if you were attacked, why would you risk your life for them? It is the thing that holds us together as a nation. Without it, the states would be picked off one by one.

I know when you say it as a kid you're just saying it because someone told you to, but when you have to say it as an adult, like I did when my kids were in Cub Scouts, then you really start to think about the words and what they mean, and suddenly it becomes very important.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
1 point

I wouldn't really be a very patriotic American without being assured that this country truly was 'one nation under God.'

Side: No! They don't have to say it
1 point

I don't see the problem with have Under God in the pledge or for that matter any where. Thats the problem with people to day. Want to complain and moan about things that they say are offensive to them. Like Under God, But when the religious try to have there say, oh no cant have that, thats the problem with this nation. Everybody wants to complain but are not willing to go some where else. Why don't you just go were they don't have god in there pledge.....Oh but wait then you would just find something else to complain to mommy about. When did this society become a bunch of babies. Oh and by the way don't care if I mispelled anything or phrased something wrong. Grow Up move on, if you don't like it Leave its that simple.

Side: No! They don't have to say it
LeRoyJames(372) Disputed
1 point

Are you a Christian? If so, then your not seeing a problem with it is meaningless. That's like a child getting more candy than the other kids and saying that they don't see a problem with it and why are all the other children acting like babies.

Side: It's so offensive it hurts!
0 points

God owns America! I got no problem with it.

Side: No! They don't have to say it