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Should Sean Hannity Be Water-Boarded?
Sean Hannity (joked?) that he'd let himself be water boarded as a charity event. Keith Olbermann's since pursued the remark and offered to donate $1000 to charity per-second that Hannity submits himself to waterboarding. Hannity's not yet accepted the offer.
So, should Hannity go through with it? He doesn't think it's torture, or that it creates "permanent physical harm", so if he's right then he shouldn't have anything to lose, and a lot to gain through charitable contributions to the troops.
I think he should purely for the fact that it would be for charity. That'd be a great way to raise charity funds. Maybe it could be publicized and other people can pledge money for it too! :)
I don't have to see somebody water boarded to give to charity. There are better ways to raise funds. Like just choosing to give without making it a personal attack against somebody.
Olberman wants to see Hannity water boarded.
Olberman doesn't want to see terrorists get water boarded.
Yes. Olberman is messed up in the head and is a liberal who thinks conservatives are worse than terrorists. However, I think Hannity should do it for that reason and also to show that conservatives are better. :D
Better than what? Or at what? Did you guys simply overlook the point of the conversation? People are barking at Hannity to get waterboarded because he says it's not torture, and just about everyone who has been has admitted that yes it is torture as our own laws state. People are going to look back on this conversation in this country and ask what the hell we were thinking.
My first question is: How could this have been a joke? He said, in no uncertain terms, "I'd do it for charity. I'd do it for the families of the troops.". Now there are offers on the table. Now's his chance to support his own knee-jerk (and personally unfounded - until he goes through with it) ideological claim that waterboarding is not torture.
If he was joking, I don't think he should be offering to raise money for men and women in uniform in the process. Best case scenario: the guy can't tell a joke. Worst case scenario: he's a blowhard who doesn't even believe his own tripe.
So, personal opinion, but the guy just sucks. It would be like watching the guy who uses the shoulder to cut around you in traffic or the guy next door who plays Hells Bells every night at 3am get what's coming to him (um...voluntarily). Pretty gratifying on a secretly indulgent level, really. I also would like to see Donald Trump get punched in the face, but until he offers to do it for charity, I suppose I'm just going to have to keep writing letters to pitch show ideas to The Apprentice..
Hannity doesn't believe water boarding is torture. Presumably that is the basis for him saying he'd be willing to have it performed on him for charity. He made the offer, it has been accepted, so he should follow through.
Yes, if he consents, waterboard him, and then he can be enlightened to what "a little water on your face" can actually do to you. If I were him, I woudn't do it. why? Because its torture and it can seriously affect your health in many way by being put under the intense amount of stress a near death situation can cause.
The only reason people are defending waterboarding is because they have linked these practices to their own political ideology, therefore, if you are republican you are more likely to hold that opinion because you're a partisan, you will defend "the party" at the cost of the country.
General freaking Patreus, the darling of the right, has said we violated the GENEVA CONVENTIONS.
so what will it take for hannity to follow through with the waterboarding? I was so looking forward to him finding out what it was like and the fox rating increasing
Sean Hannity on air said that he would be willing to prove that water boarding is not torture by first hand experience while on the show. Hasn't happen yet.
You're absolutely right. We should conduct ourselves the way we do in our prison system.
Btw, our prison system is governed by the Constitution, which stipulates no "cruel and unusual" punishments. We don't water board prisoners in jail, even if we think they might "know" something about a crime, because it would be cruel and unusual.
prisoners are American Citizens. and we're not fighting a war against these people in order to keep our country safe. terrorism is very different from American crimes.
we dropped the bomb on Japan (twice) in order to save hundreds of thousands of American troop lives.
We must do things during war in order to maintain our own safety. sometimes, it includes horrible things being done to the enemy (and water boarding is even that bad, it's just extreme discomfort for the moment. nothing bad results from it).
Terrorism IS an American crime. Look it up. We have prosecuted terrorism before 9/11. You guys keep screaming that "this is different!" and it's not. A crime is a crime is a crime unless it is a WAR CRIME.
"it's just extreme discomfort for the moment. nothing bad results from it"
wrong again. Its funny you speak with such authority on things you obviously know nothing about.
"Long term effects include panic attacks, depression and PTSD. I remind you of the patient I described earlier who would panic and gasp for breath whenever it rained even years after his abuse."
I meant as in crimes committed by Americans. i actually mentioned that the sentence BEFORE. I guess you didn't read it or something.
Depression and PTSD resulting from water boarding are possible, but they can also result from a car accident or news of a death in a family. lets be reminded that these people are high valued detainees who have personally slaughtered women and children... i don't think PTSD is possible for these types. but i could be wrong.
But effective at what? Getting reliable information? No. numerous professional interrogators have told us this, one in congressional testimony. You cannot trust information from waterboarding. The reason the SERE school started waterboarding our soldiers in training is that enemies on the battlefield were using waterboarding to illicit false confessions, so they trained to withstand it. They were preparing them to be tortured upon capture. Read up on the SERE school for more info on this.
"i don't think PTSD is possible for these types. but i could be wrong."
Yes, yes you can. And yes, you are.
"lets be reminded that these people are high valued detainees who have personally slaughtered women and children"
No actually that is not true. Many of the detainees were just suspected terrorists. And we actually do have this thing in our legal system where you are presumed innocent until proven otherwise.
"Depression and PTSD resulting from water boarding are possible, but they can also result from a car accident or news of a death in a family"
What a dumb argument. Because these effects can be caused by things other than waterboarding, waterboarding is justified? So because you can die from cancer, it is okay to shoot you?
only three terrorists have been water boarded and they were all high valued detainees who had all given out MUCH information that helped saved lives.
it's not like we picked random suspects, the CIA KNEW what they were doing and thanks to them you and I are alive.
Dying is different from psychological trauma. psychological trauma is varied on the person. plus, we used it only three times, so PTSD is hardly provable in this situation.
"they were all high valued detainees who had all given out MUCH information that helped saved lives. the CIA KNEW what they were doing and thanks to them you and I are alive."
That is incorrect. Harsh interrogations do not work. We did not get any actionable intelligence from water boarding and no lives were saved from the practice. Why don't you read what one of the foremost interrogation experts Ali Soufan says about water boarding. And please cite the terrorist plots that were stopped because of information gleaned through harsh interrogations.
according to the CIA (the only people who could know any of this), the Second Wave had been prevented. this includes attacks in LA. unfortunately, the Obama administration censored most of what we were able to prevent... they only told us the methods, not the results. CIA officials could only comment broadly, but did say that the Second Wave was prevented thanks to water boarding.
No sorry you need to do a bit more research. The LA tower attacks, which according to the CIA were not a concrete formulated plan yet, were found out before Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was ever waterboarded. That information was found out through humane interrogation and persuasion. And I have no idea what Second Wave you are talking about, so please provide a source.
Thank you for citing an article by Cybercast News Service which was founded under the name Conservative News Service, but changed its name when it couldn't trademark it. That's a really unbiased pillar of journalism you have right there. I really recommend doing a bit of research on your source if you are using some obscure website. This unfortunately is about to work out poorly for you.
According to the Bush White House "In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast."
Kindly explain to me how the water boarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed led to the breakup of the plot to fly a plane into the Library Tower, if the plot was broken up in 2002, and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was not even captured until a year later. Either the government has some freaky time traveling technology, or your news source is a crock of shit, and you need to start citing reputable organizations instead of the ravings of conservative ignoramuses.
For a full story on the myth that the water boarding of KSM led to the foiling of the Library Tower plot: http://www.slate.com/id/2217015/
The site contains an almost sickening number of citations and actual valid references.
It was thought to have been thwarted in 2002. KSM's waterboarding led to more arrests of people who were part of the plan for the Second Wave (which only includes the Library Tower).
Then please provide evidence for how the water boarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed saved anyone's life as you claimed. I asked you to provide a source before, but seeing as it was clearly a bastion of conservative ignorance I would appreciate it if you would try again.
alright, i've gone on like a hundred sites trying to get the fuckin' CIA memos but all of the links are to a .pdf file...
so, I'll just post a link to a site and you can open it yourself. i don't have a program for opening it apparently. No one denies at least that the CIA is saying that water boarding saved lives, the site i'm giving you though has their theories on how the CIA are a bunch of assholes anyway, and you can agree with them if you like, but i'm going by what the CIA says (since they're the only people who know anything about the subject.).
i also understand that it might be a different memo, if it doesn't mention certain things, tell me and i'll get something from another site. none the less, all are from the CIA.
*"No one denies at least that the CIA is saying that water boarding saved lives."
Actually many people are questioning that water boarding saved lives including myself. You still have provided 0 evidence that water boarding saved a single life or prevented anything.
First of all you haven't cited any memos. And in the memos does the CIA say they got actionable intelligence from water boarding in general, or that they prevented the Library Tower attack by water boarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?
Are you saying that everyone who doesn't think water boarding is torture should be water boarded?
"Yes. You do it repeatedly, and it's quite lame. It's not that hard to write 50 intelligible characters, so please stop."
Okay, sure I will stop, only when you say that to everyone els that does it, because I'm not the only one. Prove that that point you made was not part of your personal agenda against me.
Torture is just as illegal if done to a citizen or non citizen. General Patreus just said we violated the Geneva Conventions. He's a four star general so i'll take his opinion quite seriously. if we, by his words, violated the Geneva Convention, we tortured. It is as simple as that.
Torture is not a partisan issue to be debated. That debate was settled 50 years ago.
I have to admit, I mainly created this debate just out of curiosity to see if all the right-wingers around here would chose subjecting their icon to a treatment they claim is harmless, over donating to a cause they believe in.
Apparently, you think it's harmful enough to void giving to charity, which, coincidentally, is also my perspective.
If he wanted to do it for charity then more power to him. But the thing is, he was joking.
He is not a terrorist that is refusing to give information, so he should not be water boarded. Unless of course he wants to, for charity, but I don't thinks he wants to. And I respect his wishes because he is innocent. Would you respect his wishes not to be water boarded?
Oh, and like I said he was joking and he is not a terrorist, so it has absolutely nothing to do with hypocrisy.
If water boarding is such an acceptable instrument of interrogation, then why does Senator McCain, one of the few people on the right who's actually experienced it, oppose it?
I'm not thrilled about something like water boarding, just like I'm not thrilled about people getting the death sentence or life in prison. Just because I don't oppose something doesn't mean that I like it.
I never said that water boarding is widely accepted, because it's not. It is a necessary.method of interrogation.
Just because something is unaccepted doesn't mean it's unacceptable.
Instead of waterboarding radio hosts, maybe we should waterboard members of Congress like Nancy Pelosi. She is the one involved in the CIA mess after all...
I didn't say he did...I said he may! What I know of Sean Hannity you could probably fill up a tea cup with but I do remember him as pretty biased. Am I wrong?
Jake that part of it is the joke...no one thinks Hannity is really a terrorist or is giving information. Read the offer by Keith Olbermann again. It simply says that Hannity does not think Water Boarding is torture...hence the wager and charity event. I don't think he's a terrorist or has ties to terrorists for one minute. Hannity should take Olbermann up on the offer and then see what he thinks!
How can we be truly sure he's not a terrorist until we've water-boarded him? By your own admission, it's the only way to ensure we've gotten all the information out of him!
I agree with Cerin here. If you are whining about downvoting you aren't on topic unless that is the subject for the debate, therefore, the down vote is justified. Down voting is a function on the site, don't complain when people use it.
I'm down-voting lame responses that have nothing to do with the debate, but I'm the rude one?
Kuk's point total is irrelevant. She spends most of her time on here insulting others and then complaining when she gets downvoted. Where's my miniature violin?
It's stuck in the miniature opening called your asshole. I'm insulting you because you'll down vote anything...even a matter of opinion or something like do you like red or blue best. You say you're a college grad. Go back and take psych 101 and suck it up you lame ass fuck. This site doesn't need people like you you arrogant schlemiel. Why don't you go over to ask.com and give the whole world a piece of your Lilly livered & asinine mindlessness. Even on this debate...should he or shouldn't he be water-boarded...what do you have 3 tries, yes, no or maybe? Even the correct answer is down voted by YOU. But what can one expect from a poster boy for cretinism. NOW, you've been insulted...stick it!
