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Debate Info

142
118
Yes No
Debate Score:260
Arguments:110
Total Votes:313
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (58)
 
 No (55)

Debate Creator

kamranw(232) pic



Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?

I feel that abortion is wrong. However, even it is allowed, should a person who will have to increase financial burden not have any say in whether it is allowed or not?

Yes

Side Score: 142
VS.

No

Side Score: 118
10 points

Parents are the ones who must decide whether to have a child or not. Without any one of them the birth of the child is impossible. So, i feel, that dad also has a say in such proceedings that affect both of their lives

Side: yes
1 point

hi, i was in a similar situation, my girlfriend got pregnant and decided to abort without my say. i was mad at myself cause it seems like i was'nt supportive of her decision. but i wonder to myself what could have happened if we kept the baby. i love her to bits and pieces despite what she did to our unborn child. i was angry and not talking to her but i realised that i might be selfish and besides i love her alot.

Side: yes
1 point

I agree, the father should have a say in the abortion. What gives the mother the right to kill the unborn child if the father wants to have a child? A child doesn't mean you have to stay together forever. Why should a man have to suffer the pain of losing his unborn child just because some bitch is worried about her social status?

Side: Yes
7 points

I believe a father should have a say in abortion. It takes two to make a child. Why should it take only one to abort a child?

Side: yes
zombee(1024) Disputed
1 point

The creation of a child requires equal participation, and ideally, so would the raising of said child. However, the burden is unequal when it comes to incubating the embryo; the woman does all the work. Therefor, it makes no sense for someone who has no part in the biological process of the pregnancy to try to dictate what happens to it.

Side: No

How about we tell women that they are responsible for their actions and that there will be consequences to their screwing around?

Side: yes
6 points

it makes no sense for someone who has no part in the biological process of the pregnancy

WHAT?!?!?! A father plays an important part in the biological process of the pregnancy. What are you talking about? You even say so yourself in the first sentence, "The creation of a child requires equal participation." And then you go and contradict yourself?

Incubating the embryo is part of raising the child. The mother would raise it for 9 months and then, afterwords, the father raises the child until age 18 without the mother who doesn't want the baby. The burden is unequal when it comes to raising the baby to adulthood; the man does most the work. The mother's role is done and over with after 9 months.

Now, for your information, it is a lot harder to take care of a child for ANY 9 month period AFTER the child is born than it is to take care of a child while it is "incubating". So , are you telling that you would rather kill the fetus (denying the fetus a chance at life, AND denying the father of his half of the baby) than carry it for 9 months? Is 9 months such a burden to bear for a human life?

Side: yes
kamranw(232) Disputed
1 point

Agreed. However, her decision to keep this child, will change this man's life whether he wants the child or not. Her decision not to keep the child, can prevent someone who wants to be a good and loving father the chance.

Side: yes
Cerin(203) Disputed
1 point

It takes two to begin the process of making a child. After that though, it's largely the woman who does all the ground work.

Side: No
6 points

Because I really have nothing more to say on this subject, please refer to my last debate where this side did, in fact, win and where I posted all my thoughts on this subject.

http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/ Abortion_What_About_a_Man_s_Choice

Side: yes

Yes he should if he is going to support that child all the way through. It doesn't seem as though the father has many rights at the present but he should.

Side: yes
3 points

I believe a father has the right to refuse an abortion because it is as much his kid as it is hers.....i mean why the fuck not? Just because the woman doesn't want to be fat or some stupid shit like that is no reason why the father should not be thought of in this decision, if you don't think you can support the kid then fine, but at least hear what the father thinks about it also

Side: yes
2 points

Assuming abortion is legal at the time, like now, then yes, the father should have a say. It's his baby too. If I got my fictional girlfriend or wife pregnant and she went and got an abortion, I'd be devastated and most likely leave her. She has no right to kill my child because she doesn't want one at that time. The only times I'd tell her to get one is if the pregnancy might kill her or if it was from rape or incest. Even if she had cheated on me, I would urge her to keep it.

Side: yes
Banshee(288) Disputed
1 point

Urging her to keep it is fine. Voicing your strong opinions is fine. Saying "this will end our relationship" is fine (arguably it's not real supportive, but it is a legitimate position).

Mandating that a woman's body be subject to the demands of another person against her wishes for nine months, though, is not fine.

If and when the fetus can be successfully and safely transplanted into the father's body to gestate without any serious risks to the mother, then maybe the father should have a determinative say. But until then, the one whose body is at issue makes the call.

Side: No

All I see is that "the one that makes the call" can do as she pleases (screw around) without any consequences to her actions and all at the expense of the fetus. Hey, it's not the woman's fault. It is everybody else's fault (the father, the fetus, you name it). It is never the woman's fault. She never has any say in the matter when it comes to getting pregnant so she must be protected and allowed to have an abortion. Nice.

Side: yes
MKIced(2483) Disputed
4 points

We all have to make sacrifices and sometimes we just can't get what we want. If I were a woman and I got pregnant, I think I would take the father's input into consideration. And if he truly wants to have the baby, then I would make the sacrifice to birth it. It's all a matter of owning up to your mistakes and understanding and following through with your consequences.

As a side note, I did not downvote your argument, so I will be upvoting it because you made valid points and it was well written.

Side: yes
2 points

I find it hard to believe how many people are so open to double standards and passing blame. The father should bear burden whether he wants the child or not. The mother should just be able to kill the child and have no consequence for her actions. Makes no sense.

The feminism movement caused so much uproar about how women were being mistreated and did not have equal rights. Why ignore it when its happening the other way?

Side: yes
2 points

I propose, that if a father wants an abortion and the mother does not, she should have to bear all burden of this child when it comes into the world.

Also, if the opposite happens and as already mentioned, he is willing to bear all financial burden, find someone else to deliver the child, free her of all burden after the child is born that he should have a say.

Side: yes
2 points

Yes, a father should be able to say no to an abortion because it isnt just the mother who conceived the child, they both conceived a child together. If they both can decide on having sex without protection, then they both can decide on whether to keep the baby or not.

Side: yes
2 points

Has anyone thought of an argument that fundamentally would fit with the pro-choice argument (btw I am pro-life)... even if the fetus is a "thing" and not a "person," it still belongs to both the father and the mother. This thing, then should be one-half the property of the father - it doesn't matter where it is located, does that ever matter with property? If that is the case, what right does the mother have to destroy his property without consent and/or compensation??? This seems to violate the basic property laws of Anglo-Saxon law to me... Furthermore, doesn't the father have a de facto trademark or copyright on his sperm??? It is a unique code, fully owned by him? Our world would certainly mandate his consent should we use his DNA for purposes of cloning, stem cell research, etc. Doesn't he own his genetic code - and isn't, at the point of conception, the embryo composed of half his DNA??? So then, I leave you, my pro-choice colleagues, with an intriguing question - Is it then proper that a joint owner in a partnership (a de facto partnership formed by two consenting adults who know the risks when they have intercourse - heck if you can have an oral contract, why can't sex form a contract of sorts???) single-handedly decides to destroy the whole of said company? In court cases, the murder of a pregnant mother counts as double homicide... This is due to the fact that the mother (obviously) didn't consent to her baby being aborted by these means. Then why shouldn't the father's lack of consent in such a case make a mother's decision to abort comparable to single homicide? In both cases, the end result is the same (disregarding the will of a parent of an embryo, and terminating a pregnancy without consent from a parent...)

Side: yes
2 points

A father is as much of a parent to that baby as the mother. A decision on abortion should be made by both the father and the mother.

Side: yes
1 point

YES he is part of the child too that woudn't be fair to him PERIOD.

Side: yes
1 point

firstly, i AM pregnant, and i am going through with a termination. however i came on this site to hopefully get some answers; i am in a very happy stable relationship and all that jazz. however because of complications with my womb, i only have a 15% chance of getting pregnant, that number is only going to decrease as time goes on. and about a month ago i found out i was pregnant. me and my boyfriend are both 19, he obviously does not want a child and has cried and begged with me not to have it even though he knows i may not get another chance. some may say that that is selfish. well it is, but at the same time its selfless, he is thinking about the unborn child, it would not be fair to give birth to a child when one of its parents did not want it. and if having that child would stop you from doing all you wanted to do in life you could end up resenting it. and thats not good for any body.

on the flip side up until 2 weeks ago i didn't think the man should have the right to decide, because the mother is the one with sole responsibility she will be the one carrying it around giving birth breastfeeding and probably looking after the baby in general most of the time. threes nothing wrong with bringing a child up on your own and i feel that if you really really want a child and the father does not you need to evaluate your relationship. is it worth losing someone you love for an EMBRYO?

Side: sacrificial offerings

Yes, if a girlfriend/wife wanted to kill MY child, I would not allow it.

Side: yes
1 point

yes, if a father does want a child then he has the right just as much as the mother would.

Side: yes
1 point

i think the father has the right.if he knows he wont manage the rensponsibility its better that he should say it before the child is born.

Side: yes
1 point

Not sure. But, men should definitely be permitted to opt out of fatherhood, so long as women can in the way of choosing abortion.

Side: Yes if he can't opt out of parenthood
1 point

The father should be allowed to decide if he wants the child. It is not such a terrible thing for the woman to have the baby and either give it to the father or adopt it out. Abortions are selfish and not necessary. They also cause long-term guilt.

Neither should a man be able to force a woman to have an abortion. Either way, it is taking a human life.

The main goal should be focused on prevention. It is the responsibility of both partners, and if they want to take the risk of unprotected sex, they will have to take the responsibility.

The message hasn't sunk in I guess.

If you don't want a baby, don't make one. Even if you "accidentally" get pregnant, adoption is a better choice over killing.

Side: yes

Both parents will obviously (hopefully) be involved in the decision and the upbringing of the child, but when it boils down to it, the woman must bear the physical consequences/risks of bearing a child. And if the father decides to split, the woman is physically tied to her child. Not fair.

Besides, if fathers had the right to refuse abortions, there'd just be women asking friends to push them downstairs or kick them in the stomach or getting dangerous drugs....

Side: No
kamranw(232) Disputed
1 point

I am talking legality. If there was legal terms in which the father could not 'split' as you call it, then why should she be allowed to say no? Secondly, having your embryo removed and placed in a surrogate mother, is no more intrusive than an abortion. Finally, you still have not answered the other scenario. What if he does NOT want the child. Why should she have a way out but doesn't? She should have to waive his legal liability to keep the child he does not want in the case that she is refusing to have an abortion. Its called equal rights. Somewhere along the way, the pendulum turned to far in favor of a woman. Now we are a long ways away from equality.

Side: yes
3 points

He can refuse it all he wants, if I dont want a baby, i'm not having a baby. If he wants a baby THAT badly, he can go adopt. But there is no way he is putting my body through 9 months of transformation, then 14 hours of pain, to bring a life into the world.

Side: No
EricM(18) Disputed
1 point

Then he should also have the absolute right to opt out of parenthood, seeing that it's your body and your child. There is no reason that he suddenly should have responsibility if his views mean nothing.

Side: yes
Nosferatu88 Disputed
1 point

So men have to just "deal with it" because some twit is worried about her social status? Are you girls worried you won't have time to text your friends while taking care of a child? 9 months is less than 1% of the life span of a healthy woman. Are you saying you can't spare less than 1% of your life to give life?

Side: Yes
2 points

can someone tell me how either of these are ok?

I'm the father so i say that you aren't allowed to kill that thing that is living in your belly.

I'm the father so I say that you need to go have a miscarriage which may involve an invasive procedure.

And don't forget the definition of father here is that ONE cell from the "father's" body was used to create the babby.

Side: No
kamranw(232) Disputed
1 point

The major argument for abortion is that a woman may not be ready to take care of a child. Why should a man not have the same option?

Side: yes
curtix(41) Disputed
2 points

That is not "The Major Argument for Abortion." Do not assume that it is. Different people will have different most important arguments. My personal most important argument is that there is something living inside of the mother and it should be her choice as to whether or not is allowed to do so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Side: No
EricM(18) Disputed
0 points

As soon as you tell me why, if that thing belongs to her, he should suddenly have equal responsibility or any responsibility for that matter. Why should men's reproductive rights still be trampled on. Men should have the right to opt out of parenthood, just like women can.

Side: yes

The father should have nothing to do with the woman's decision of whether or not to have an abortion, just like he should not have the right to force one.

Side: No
kamranw(232) Disputed
2 points

That still does not answer my question. If he does not want the child and she does, why should he have any legal burden when it is born? Why should she have a way out and not him?

Side: yes
EricM(18) Disputed
1 point

Nor should he have any responsibility toward the fetus after birth if he doesn't want it. It's hers, as you aptly pointed out and he should be able to state up front that he wants nothing to do with it.

Side: yes
1 point

No! most men today just want to love and leave you. Or if they stay with you cheat on you. They make conscious decisions to do things you disaprove of all day, how about having a woman make the decision in something wrong for once. Besides why didn't you guys talk about what your plans were before the pregnancy?

Side: No
1 point

I think abortion is bad. I really do. But I think it should be up to the mother. After all, she IS the one carrying the baby. The father should not have the right to choose, but he could help the mother decide her choice.

Side: No
1 point

You can refuse all you want, but it's not "your" baby. People aren't property in the same way organs are.

Or should your girlfriend be allowed to stop you from getting a vasectomy? =/

Side: No
1 point

A woman having a baby with a man she should not, of course, has the right to abortion. Such a man may perhaps not cope well with the child and the woman wants it all. And then the woman giving birth also undergo further. Basically everything is done with the woman and the man almost nothing, because if the man would get a child's (which is not) then it should go through because the person who will give birth, the heaviest burden, so the woman should decide.

Side: No
1 point

It's the woman's body, it's the woman's choice. Who is a man to tell her what to do with HER body. Yes, he can give her his opinion but in the end it is her decision.

Side: No
1 point

The persona carrying the baby has the final say regarding the pregnancy.

Side: No

Because what he deposits is a gift. He has no say what the female wants to do with the gift he has given her.

Side: No
0 points

If I was in this situation, I would definitely take the father's opinion into account, but it would be my body, so ultimately the decision would be mine. If I truly felt abortion was the best option, he could refuse it all he wanted, and it would still happen. It's not an ideal situation, but the termination of a pregnancy usually isn't.

To imagine a woman being denied an abortion just because her boyfriend/husband or whoever wanted to keep the baby strikes me as incredibly disturbing. It is essentially disregarding her wishes in favor of his and forcing her to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want, and that sounds like a nightmare to me.

Side: No

Right. Because it is so much more preferable to kill a human embryo than to force a woman into a 9 month ordeal she could have prevented if she had just kept her legs closed ;)

Here's what it boils down to. A woman can be promiscuous without any consequences, none, zero, zip, nada. And all at the expense of someone else, the fetus. Nice.

This country is in such a mess because no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. It is always someone else's fault.

Side: yes
zombee(1024) Disputed
4 points

So essentially, a baby is well-deserved punishment for a woman daring to have sex? That's lovely.

I would to go into all the consequences 'promiscuous' women face, such as the example of slut-shaming you provided, but that is another argument. But not only promiscuous women get pregnant, surprisingly enough!

By current scientific definition, an embryo is not someone, it is something. Of course it has the potential to be a human being, but it isn't yet, in the same way an acorn is not an oak tree and the eggs in your fridge are not chicken.

Side: No
kamranw(232) Disputed
5 points

Science has come a long way. It is possible to have a surrogate mother. What if he suggested the embryo be planted in someone else's body?

Side: yes
zombee(1024) Disputed
2 points

If he suggests that and she agrees, great. But she still has the right to choose an abortion instead, no matter what he wants.

Side: No
kamranw(232) Disputed
4 points

So why should a father who wanted her to have the abortion, have to pay child support? If, on the flip side, he wanted the child and had no say? Its a double standard. Lose lose for the man.

Side: yes
zombee(1024) Disputed
2 points

Again, it comes down to someone who is not experiencing a pregnancy trying to dictate how it ends.

In the case of a man paying child support on a child he didn't want, it does put these men in a potentially unfair situation but the other option is to have a lot of babies brought into the world to single mothers who can't fully support them. Not only does the mother suffer, but so does the child, who is no longer a couple of cells, but a fully recognized human being who shares no part of the blame in these cases. It is a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils, and those situations are never perfect for anyone.

Side: No
0 points

Unless he is the one having the baby then go right on ahead

and he gets to choose!

BUT since thats not happening leave the decision up to the

woman who is having that kid,after all its her body = her decision

Side: No
kamranw(232) Disputed
4 points

Her decision affects him too! If she keeps the child, he must pay child support. If she does not, he loses a chance to be a father! I agree that if she does NOT want the abortion that he should not be able to force her. However, if he says he wants one and she says no, then he should be able to remove all responsibility after the child is born. After all, if she chooses to have the abortion, the result would be the same. Also, if she wants the abortion and he does not, he should have the option of finding a surrogate mother and remove her of all burden.

Side: yes
0 points

It is my belief that every person's body is their own property, and that each person has the right to do with him or herself whatever he or she desires regardless of the opinions of others. Having a man be able to dictate what a woman does with herself is a violation of her right to self. If men can tell women what to do with their pregnancies, why not tell them more? By that logic a man should be able to dictate whatever a woman does with herself.

Side: No
kamranw(232) Disputed
2 points

Nobody is suggesting a man should dictate what a woman do. Just that he should have some control over a child that he may or may not want. If she does not want the abortion even after he say he does not want the child fine. However, he should have not financial burden. If he says he wants the child and is willing to hold all financial burden even while she is pregnant, why should this not be an option. I take it one step further and say, he will find a surrogate mother and people still object. If a father has equal burden after the child is born, he should have some say.

Side: yes
0 points

I think it should be a joint decision as much as possible, but in the end the burden and risk lays with the women and so therefore does the right to make the final decision.

Side: No
kamranw(232) Disputed
3 points

The man has many risks tied to her decision as well. Such as, financial burden should she keep the child. Studies now suggest, a man will go through many of the same mental problems such as remourse and depression should she have the abortion.

Side: yes
haaley(13) Disputed
1 point

And what kind of mental problems would a women have if she was forced into having a child she couldn't afford, she couldn't care for or support?

And what is SO bad about a man paying to help his child? Why is it that instead of a man paying a little extra money to keep HIS child fed, whether he wanted the child or not, he would rather say he doesn't have equal rights because he couldn't force a women to have an abortion?

Side: No