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It depends on the marriage. If it is agreed upon that one spouse takes on more responsibly than another then so be it. One thing is always true however; both involved should always have the right to an opinion and for that opinion to be heard.
Agreed. If I get married, I will let my husband or wife be the leader but that will be by my consent only as it should be. My Aunt Rose has to be the bread winniner because my Uncle Ronnie is severly disabled and unable to work. She is not less of a woman nor he less of a man. Couples should do what works for them. Good seeing you again, doc.
The bible clearly states that woman are to be submissive and obedient to their husbands.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
-1 Timothy 2:11-14
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
-1 Corinthians 11:3
Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
-1 Corinthians 11:9
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
-Genesis 3:16
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
-Exodus 21:7
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
Just because a book says something does not mean it is true. Women have equal rights to men whether you like it or not. We are not going anywhere. i will not be told what to do.
yes, but Im a liberal Christian. The Bible yes to test all things and I dont believe mere mention in a book is tanamount to fact. One must question why is it in the book, is the source good, can this claim be proven with empirical evidence, was this claim in the original, is the translation being used accurate, is it as literal as possible. What I mean is translations make errors and there are controversies surrounding which manuscript is best or if it matters. I take a full look at all of these questions and logically analyse what i should and should not believe based on the understanding and proof provided to me. Not all Christians are robotic morons with no logic just like atheists do not worship satan. If God does not want me to be a free thinker, why did He give me my own mind? The Bible says in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 to test all things and hold fast to what is good. Its safe to say that Gods pretty cool with me doing that.
With the changes of the Bible during the last few hundred years that is exactly how Christians need to interpret the Bible, I think. It does raise one issue though:
1 Thessalonians 5:21 to test all things and hold fast to what is good
If you believe that the Bible has errors and is not an accurate representation of the world of God, then quoting like this is meaningly. Every part of the Bible could be wrong in some way.
On a side note, I think you have taken that quote out of context to your own ends...
"20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil."
It is talking abut prophecies. It is not asking you to question Gods word.
If you believe that the Bible has errors and is not an accurate representation of the world of God, then quoting like this is meaningly. Every part of the Bible could be wrong in some way. I do not think the Bible in the original languages has errors. i was talking about translations. No translation is 100% perfect. It is talking abut prophecies. It is not asking you to question Gods word. I disagree. To test all things means to hold them to a logical standard.
I do not think the Bible in the original languages has errors. i was talking about translations. No translation is 100% perfect.
Well as no one can read it today in its original language we have to translate it.
To test all things means to hold them to a logical standard.
I see. So to you you think God wants you to question his word. Fine. But that is taking that sentence out of the context of the verse and certainly out of the context of the Bible as a whole. God wants you to follow his word.
I am not taking anything out of context and who are you to dictate a faith that is not yours? You are not a Christian so who are you to decide what Christians believe?
if you're not talking it out of context, give me another quote that confirms your view. Where else in the Bible does God tell you to question the word of the Bible?
First of all verify that you posess logical knowledge enough to judge a book you dont even believe in. Just because I have a different view than you do does not make me unchristian or wrong. it means that i do not share your view. Being a Christian means following Christ. Last time a checked, perfection is not required to follow Christ. Thats the whole point of Him dying on the cross for our sins: because we are not perfect, and we cannot do it on our own. You have an amazing mind, you are very kind when you want to be, and very funny. Why not be the awesome you and consider that you like any mortal being do not posess infinant knowledge? I dont, you dont, hell my mother doesnt. My point is you have no empirical data proving that my differing view equats to a fallacy or taking something out of context. As always, stay awesome. :)
First of all verify that you posess logical knowledge enough to judge a book you dont even believe in.
Im a law graduate. Analysing big books of rules is what I do. Whether I believe them to be true or not is not the issue.
Being a Christian means following Christ. Last time a checked, perfection is not required to follow Christ.
Yeah no one is perfect. But a Christian believes in the Bible. Its you thats making the claim not me. I dont have to prove anything. You say that Go wants you to question his Bible. To question Him. Can you substantiate that with anything more than that fragment of a sentence?
Im a law graduate. Analysing big books of rules is what I do. Whether I believe them to be true or not is not the issue. I conceed to this point. What field if I may ask? Yeah no one is perfect. But a Christian believes in the Bible. Its you thats making the claim not me. I dont have to prove anything. You say that Go wants you to question his Bible. To question Him. Can you substantiate that with anything more than that fragment of a sentence? Another concession. Im more just trying to place the Bible within the frame of logic. It is not alaways the Bible perse but how one interprets it. Its a field called hermenutics. It means how you interpret the Bible. You prob already know this being smart like you are. Like the verse saying women can be saved through childbearing? I believe in a liberal metaphorical hermanutic in regards to that verse. The same with killing witches, smartassed kids, un married nonvirgin women, having rape victims marry their attackers and so on. The Bible speaks of two dif convenants: the old and the new. The old covenent is based on keeping Torah law in anticipation of the work of Christ on the Cross. and the new covenant is trusting in the work of Christ. The Law is a stepping stone to crying out to God in our imperfection and and asking Jesus to be our Lord and savior. That is how we obtain salvation. According to Ephesians 2:8-10: good works are the result of, not the cause of faith. You cant buy a relationship with Christi, you can just repent of sins and accept His offer.
You are shifting the argument... You asked about authority, not if women can work outside the home. Not only that, but you are contradicting yourself by your position. You are on the side of equal authority but then say you would prefer if your "partner" is the "leader". What kind of a leader is "it" going to be if it has no authority to make decisions for the "family"?
If that were all there was to then yes, it would be pretty-slavery like. Why don't we take a look at the husband's responsibility...
Ephesians 5:25 ESV
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, Be loving, and put your wife's well being before your own... Even if it means your death. Do you think "women and children first" just sprang up out of nowhere? It is not a universal rule.
1 Peter 3:7 ESV
Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered. "heirs with you"... Doesn't sound like slavery to me.
Colossians 3:19 ESV
Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them. this is just so awful... Make it stop!!! Oh the cruelty.
My favorite is the rest of Ephesians 5...26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
It sounds like my wife is my responsibility whether I abdicate the authority or not...
Your wife is not your property. Husbands dont have the right to tell wives what to do. You can quote all the books you want and I still wont support the sexist concept of male dominance. The Bible tells women to be silent in churches, bans them from hpreaching or having authority over a man, tells rape victims to marry their attackers, calls for the murder of nonvirgin unmarried women, sanctions rape, sanctions sexual slavery of women, tells women to obey their husbands, and that is not sexist? You are delusional.
You are way off topic anyway. This is like a new car owner arguing against using the owners manual for the car he just destroyed through his ignorance. Since the 1970's, women's progress has gone up sharply, divorces spiked and stayed there, and through it all women are less happy then they were in 1972. God created us, don't you agree he knows what is best?
Have you signed the petition for legalized zoophilia yet? Has the supreme court orderd all states to have gay marriage yet? Maybe some day it will be considered "The law of the slippery slope"
Women having rights does not lead to bad things.
That is not REALLY what I am saying... But ok... Prove that it doesn't lead to bad things.
That is sexist.
Better to be sexist than wrong
The rest of your drivewl is unworthy of my time.
After what? 100 arguments between us suddenly Im not worth your time?
That is not REALLY what I am saying... But ok... Prove that it doesn't lead to bad things. You cant prove a negative. Better to be sexist than wrong Proove that you are right and I am wrong. After what? 100 arguments between us suddenly Im not worth your time? I just dont see this going anywhere.
The bible clearly states that woman are to be submissive and obedient to their husbands.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
-1 Timothy 2:11-14
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
-1 Corinthians 11:3
Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
-1 Corinthians 11:9
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
-Genesis 3:16
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
-Exodus 21:7
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
The Bible might apply to Christian marriages (though it should only apply if both parties agree), but what about civil ceremonies? What about other religions? And in the end, should it not be down to the couple to decide how best to make their marriage work?
Yeah that all sounds good, except our way of doing things has a history... The modern way of doing things is looking like a disaster. On top of that progressive culture has worked feverishly to fight against traditional role models in the home for decades. The Simpsons have ran 547 episodes... 547 episodes of a competent woman married to a bumbling oaf.... A child prodigy as a daughter and a little demon spawn son ( see ratios of ADD diagnosis between boys and girls). How many different shows do Americans consume every week featuring the exact same thing?
Progressives are strong, and even mischievous advocates for their ideals, why can't we be advocates for our position???
Yes. Although one may take on more responsibility than the other or play a different role that the other, it is still important to maintain an equal relationship.
The bible clearly states that woman are to be submissive and obedient to their husbands.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
-1 Timothy 2:11-14
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
-1 Corinthians 11:3
Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
-1 Corinthians 11:9
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
-Genesis 3:16
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
-Exodus 21:7
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
There are different types of marriages, in different cultures with differen mores. I believe in human equality, and specifically (due to the nature of this debate) gender equality. So in my opinion, I believe marriages should be an equal partnership, and equal authority. I also realize there are people who are seem just as happy not having an equal authoritative voice in marriage.
The bible clearly states that woman are to be submissive and obedient to their husbands.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
-1 Timothy 2:11-14
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
-1 Corinthians 11:3
Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
-1 Corinthians 11:9
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
-Genesis 3:16
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
-Exodus 21:7
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
I do not ignore the teachings of Christianity. That is a complete lie. No true Scotsman fallacy. Disagreeing with your OPINIONS does not make me unchristian.
God gave those laws to the state of Israel to follow. Christians don't have to follow it at all. That's just like saying other foreign countries should follow the U.S Constitution, but the other foreign countries have their own laws so they shouldn't follow the U.S Constitution. It's the same thing with the Old Testament laws.
From my experience and what anecdotal evidence I can observe, marriage works better if there is a definite 'leader' whenever an unexpected situation arises. I don't, however, believe this role should be across the board, nor should it be selected based on gender. Rather, whichever spouse is more suited to the particular type of issue should have the final say.
Which isn't to say the other partners opinion shouldn't be considered- it should. But true equality does not work if the spouses completely disagree on a topic and neither can be swayed; there generally isn't a third 'tiebreaker' voter. Otherwise, well... failing to make a decision is itself a decision of sorts, and almost always the wrong one.
So I would say that a husband and wife should not have equal authority- each should hold authority over those things they are best suited to. That may mean that the man has more overall authority. That may mean that the woman has more overall authority. In some cases, that may even work out to being equals- but there is still an obvious leader for any given situation. This is a good thing!