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Debate Info

17
19
Yes, freedom of religion No it's discrimination
Debate Score:36
Arguments:29
Total Votes:36
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes, freedom of religion (12)
 
 No it's discrimination (14)

Debate Creator

goodmale(1459) pic



Should businesses be able to not serve people for religion believes

Yes, freedom of religion

Side Score: 17
VS.

No it's discrimination

Side Score: 19
3 points

Should they discriminate who they serve based on religious beliefs? No, and I would happily participate in a boycott of a business that did this. Should they be able to? Yes. They have a right to private property and a right to choose who to do business with. By refusing service to someone, they are not denying that person any rights because no person has a right to another's service, cooperation, or business.

Besides, would you really want to give your money to someone who holds discriminatory views? Think about it. If the government has to force someone to serve you because they are a bigot and would not do so otherwise, do you really want to contribute to increasing their profit? Discriminating is a bad business decision because you are losing out on a lot of potential revenue from those you are discriminating against as well as those who boycott you because of it. We don't need the government to use force against somebody who has not initiated force against someone else.

Side: Yes, freedom of religion
Hitler(2364) Disputed
1 point

Then a man could go starving and without water since hypothetically every business in his local area can consistently refuse him any service.

Don't argue that it's unrealistic, argue why this man should be potentially subjected to such a horrific ordeal.

Justify why he has to travel to a country where this is banned just to guarantee having water to drink and food to eat as long as he has the money to buy it.

Actually, justify to me why a cheaper place can ban him for his religion but a more expensive place, which he is being unfairly forced to go to can grab his money simply for their religious outlook, leaving the poor guy with barely any income since he's on minimum wage (which thank god exists, no thanks to fucking Right Wing extremists).

Side: No it's discrimination
iruiz(4) Disputed
1 point

You are correct in stating that in some unrealistic hypothetical scenario that the situation you described could happen, but it is more important to stick with the principle of non-coercion than to break it because of the hyper-slim chance that something like this could happen. Given your reasoning, we should ban anything and everything that we see as a social ill because in some hypothetical situation, it could lead to an undesirable set of circumstances.

What if, in your scenario, every business owner just decided not serve anybody and they all ended their businesses at the same time. And let's say that no new businesses came in to replace them, so essentially it ended so that there were no businesses at all in said local area. Should the government then force all potential business owners to start working again and force them so sell to the people of the community? Forget how unrealistic this is. It's entirely possible, is it not? The principle is the same. Forcing people to work against their will is immoral. Forcing people to work in a way that they would otherwise choose not to is also immoral, provided of course they are not infringing on another's rights.

Side: Yes, freedom of religion
2 points

I could care less if they didn't serve me I will just take my business somewhere else. Let the religious have there freedom too.

Side: Yes, freedom of religion
Hitler(2364) Disputed
2 points

If this was allowed then every place in town could reject you for being a dog-fucker... Oh wait, they wouldn't have to; you'd be in prison, my bad.

Side: No it's discrimination
goodmale(1459) Disputed
1 point

Why would I be in prison !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Side: Yes, freedom of religion
2 points

I personally believe that a business should have the right to refuse service to who ever they want, for whatever reason they please. Please try to convince me otherwise.

Side: Yes, freedom of religion
2 points

Because then a man could go starving and without water since hypothetically every business in his local area can consistently refuse him any service.

don't argue that it's unrealistic, argue why this man should be potentially subjected to such a horrific ordeal.

Justify why he has to travel to a country where this is banned just to guarantee having water to drink and food to eat as long as he has the money to buy it.

Actually, justify to me why a cheaper place can ban him for his religion but a more expensive place, which he is being unfairly forced to go to can grab his money simply for their religious outlook, leaving the poor guy with barely any income since he's on minimum wage (which thank god exists, no thanks to fucking Right Wing extremists).

Side: No it's discrimination
Warjin(1577) Disputed
2 points

Like if you are black, Jew or how about blond hair?

Discrimination is discrimination no matter the reason and if you as a person or state want to be a part of the United States of America then you have to follow the rules, all men are created equal.

How would Christians feel if I had a big old sign outside my business saying "No Christians allowed"?

To be an American means freedom for all, not freedom for some by giving more freedom to others, so this means any hindrance of freedom to anyone even if this means more freedom to you is not American freedom, freedom has to be equal for freedom to work or its just plain old oppression for some and freedom for others.

If any person or state wishes to hinder another persons freedom then they should be kicked out of America, they are not representing what America is truly about, and Yes this is why we have a Federal Government to regulate things like this, keeping states and others on track in what it means to be a part of America.

Side: No it's discrimination
atypican(4875) Disputed
1 point

Like if you are black, Jew or how about blond hair?

If a business is allowed to refuse service to anyone, this is allowing them to discriminate.

Discrimination is discrimination no matter the reason

Granted, discrimination of one sort or another is unavoidable though, yes?

and if you as a person or state want to be a part of the

United States of America then you have to follow the

rules, all men are created equal.

How would Christians feel if I had a big old sign outside

my business saying "No Christians allowed"?

I certainly am not advocating discrimination based on anything other than behavior. But I would argue that business owners should have the right to discriminate based on their own standards of acceptable behavior.

To be an American means freedom for all, not freedom

for some by giving more freedom to others, so this

means any hindrance of freedom to anyone even if this means more freedom to you is not American freedom,

freedom has to be equal for freedom to work or its just

plain old oppression for some and freedom for others.

That didn't clear anything up for me :(

If any person or state wishes to hinder another persons

freedom then they should be kicked out of America, they

are not representing what America is truly about, and Yes

this is why we have a Federal Government to regulate

things like this, keeping states and others on track in

what it means to be a part of America.

State as opposed to national sovereignty, is a fascinating topic.

Side: Yes, freedom of religion
Stickers(1037) Clarified
1 point

Man, where have you been ?!

Side: Yes, freedom of religion
atypican(4875) Clarified
1 point

My only internet is on my phone right now so ... yeah

Side: Yes, freedom of religion
Hitler(2364) Clarified
1 point

Is that you conceding to me?

Side: Yes, freedom of religion

Yes and No.

I don't believe that it should be legal or acceptable for a business to explicitly and vocally refuse service due to the religious beliefs of the would-be client; doing such would be discrimination, plain and simple.

I do, however, believe that a business should have the right to refuse service to anyone, for any or no reason, and should not be required to divulge said reason to anyone for any reason. Looking at it from the opposite side- no business should be compelled to provide service to anyone.

So on the whole, I would say Yes- with the caveat that they not provide a reason for doing so, simply refuse service.

Basically, the same deal as with employment in US states with 'at will employment' laws. In Maryland, for example, either an employee or an employer can terminate the business relationship at any time, for any reason, with no legal repercussions. Discrimination is still illegal, but accusations of such must be proven in a court of law.

Side: Yes, freedom of religion

The state I'm in allows it. Personally while I think its wrong to do it and not morally correct these people still have a right to deny service, no matter what the reason.

Side: Yes, freedom of religion
2 points

Absolutely not. That would be totally unjustifiable discrimination.

Side: No it's discrimination
Cartman(18192) Disputed
2 points

Don't you have the right to refuse service to anyone? If they had that sign up would it be ok?

Side: Yes, freedom of religion
Warjin(1577) Disputed
2 points

We have been there and done that, we have progressed beyond that and to take us back in anyway is morally wrong, America can not support bigotry no matter if God himself calls for it, just remember America pre 1960's, it's so easy for our generation to forget the struggle our grandfathers went through, below is a nice reminder as to why we can never let this happen in America.

Supporting Evidence: Why religion has no place in American politics. (www.umbc.edu)
Side: No it's discrimination
1 point

But I could understand why a bar might want to refuse serving a Muslim.

Side: No it's discrimination
1 point

Heck no! The law of the U.S. states that people have rights to a religion, and justice for all. You are saying no to a person because of their religion, if they are applying for a job as a nun, pastor or christen school teacher, I can understand the hesitation, but these are regular jobs! Doctors, Lawyers, Idols, Models stuff like that, and law force too, they jobs people have rights to do with the right education, their religion in these cases are personal subjects and you do not and can not bring personal subjects into work.

Side: No it's discrimination
1 point

no thats a whoble thing to do how would you feel if someone did not serve you

Side: No it's discrimination

A public business is open to the public, therefore, they must serve ALL.

Side: No it's discrimination