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Should prostitution be made illegal everywhere in this world?
Here I am talking about male and female prostitution. And I am not refering to forced prostitution or forced child sex industries. I am refering only to the trade of sex for money, by those (presumably adults) that give their full consent to this act.
Prostitution is something everyone with a vagina can do, and I know that there are some women out there who ''love what they do'', but I bet that 90% are there because of poverty, trafficking or somebody made them do it.
No girl grows up dreaming about being a prostitue.
Prostituion should not be made legal, they should take those girls and put them in homes, give them an education, so they can have a life worth living.
Prostitution is something everyone with a vagina can do
Prostitution is something everyone can do. Period.
and I know that there are some women out there who ''love what they do'', but I bet that 90% are there because of poverty, trafficking or somebody made them do it.
Your point? Criminalizing prostitution penalizes what can be a safe and consensual exchange, while doing nothing to actually help those pushed into prostitution by the forces you name. If you are genuinely concerned about their well-being, then you should not advocate turning them into criminals and punishing them (usually with jail time and a fine which pushes them even further into dependency upon prostitution).
[...] put them in homes, give them an education, so they can have a life worth living.
Yes; housing, education, support, and going after the actual criminals (e.g. trafficking rings, etc.) makes sense. These can still be done, and are actually easier to do, when prostitution is legal.
My point is, that prostitution doesn't really do any good to the society or to the victim (the prostitute). I agree with you when you say the prostitute is the victim, not the criminal. I don't really remember saying that. When I say that prostitution shouldn't be legal, that doesn't mean I imply that the prostitute is the criminal.
There are multiple reasons why prostitution should be illegal, but I fail to see a solid argument why it shouldn't. You say that it's easier to give the prostitutes a home and education with prostitution being legal - how?
My point is, that prostitution doesn't really do any good to the society or to the victim (the prostitute).
Arguably, this is true of a lot of things in society (e.g. fast food, video games, etc.); should me make things illegal in our society simply because they lack utility?
Also, it is fallacious to assume that just because many/most prostitutes are victims that all of them are victims. To legislate on that basis, and to restrict the behavior of those entering into the industry of their own volition is illegitimate.
I agree with you when you say the prostitute is the victim, not the criminal. I don't really remember saying that. When I say that prostitution shouldn't be legal, that doesn't mean I imply that the prostitute is the criminal.
You support making prostitution illegal. That criminalizes the prostitute. Period.
There are multiple reasons why prostitution should be illegal, but I fail to see a solid argument why it shouldn't.
Pray, do tell, what are these multiple reasons you allude to? The only reason necessary to oppose a law restricting behavior is the lack of compelling reason to enact that law. That said, the criminalization of prostitution does not help those trapped in and exploited by the industry; it lands them in prison and/or exacerbates their financial troubles through fines, thereby pushing them further into the industry.
You say that it's easier to give the prostitutes a home and education with prostitution being legal - how?
If prostitution is illegal, then those who engage in it are at odds with the law and cannot be open about their engagement in that industry nor are they likely to trust the government when it says it wants to help them. It is unlikely that they would risk prison and/or fines by seeking help that they may not even receive, from an entity they do not trust to help them.
You support making prostitution illegal. That criminalizes the prostitute. Period.
I also support making rape illegal - does that make the one raped a criminal?
Pray, do tell, what are these multiple reasons you allude to? The only reason necessary to oppose a law restricting behavior is the lack of compelling reason to enact that law. That said, the criminalization of prostitution does not help those trapped in and exploited by the industry; it lands them in prison and/or exacerbates their financial troubles through fines, thereby pushing them further into the industry.
How ironic - I tell you that I fail to see a solid argument supporting prostitution, and you won't give me one?
You talk about this subject as if there are only two solutions to choose from. Either we allow prostitution, or all prostitutes go to jail.
There are four different ways to look at prostitution. Prohibiton, regulation, abolition and decriminalization.
The prohibitionist approach is characterized by criminalization of all prostitution-related activities: soliciting, procuring, pimping, and brothel keeping. The regulation approach is characterized by the legalization and regulation of the sex industry. The abolitionist approach is characterized by the treatment of women and children used in prostitution as victims in need of services and the treatment of the buyers and traffickers as perpetrators. In this scheme, those who sell sex acts are decriminalized, whereas those who buy others for sex are criminalized.
It is possible to make prostitution illegal, without making the victim (the prostitute) a criminal. Because there needs to be two people in order to call it prostitution - one to sell and one to buy.
I also support making rape illegal - does that make the one raped a criminal?
I am running out of different ways to explain what is an extremely simple and straightforward facet of law. If you make an action criminal then anyone engaging in it is a criminal. In the case of rape, the rapist; in the case of prostitution, the prostitute. How do you not get this?
How ironic - I tell you that I fail to see a solid argument supporting prostitution, and you won't give me one?
How is that ironic? I clearly explained why the burden falls to your advocacy and not mine; to restrict individual liberties one must have legitimate cause. You have utterly failed to address this argument, and I will take continued failure to do so as concession of the point.
That said, I did give you an argument in defense of my stance and against yours. This, too, you failed to refute.
You talk about this subject as if there are only two solutions to choose from. Either we allow prostitution, or all prostitutes go to jail.
I have not advanced my stance on this issue, but have contained my remarks to refuting yours. Consequentially, I have not talked about the issue as you claim I have. But thank you for trying to put words in my mouth.
There are four different ways to look at prostitution. Prohibiton, regulation, abolition and decriminalization.
There are more than four different ways to approach the matter, but if the categories help you to order your thoughts on the matter so be it. I prefer not to limit myself.
It is possible to make prostitution illegal, without making the victim (the prostitute) a criminal. Because there needs to be two people in order to call it prostitution - one to sell and one to buy.
No, it is not. You are abusing the terminology. Prostitution is defined solely as the exchange of sex for payment. Solicitation is the purchase of sex. Trafficking is the selling of prostitutes for sexual acts to solicitors.
Many prostitutes out there are highly educated and choose to work as a sex worker. Human trafficking and selling people as sex slaves is illegal and should remain illegal. This is a linked but separate issue. Illegality of prostitution increases the black market for sex slaves and human trafficking. If it is regulated, the call for this would be reduced and the remaining black market can be dealt with just like it is now.
What about those who have a university education and still go into prostitution? The fact is that there are people who chose to go into prostitution and enjoy the sex trade.
Your prejudice is astounding. Not all prostitutes are diseased. This is like arguing all gay people are diseased because they are more likely to have HIV. Judge not lest ye be judged.
hey should take those girls and put them in homes, give them an education, so they can have a life worth living.
I don't understand. We're talking about adults. You want to force someone to stop doing something they have chosen to do and go for re-education? Sounds scary. No one should be punished for the harm they do to themselves.
I vaguely remember it from studying for my law degree, yes. It is a crime.
No woman wants to be a prostitutue - most of them are forced to by other people, or because they need money to survive.
Prove most woman are forced into it. My understand is that they do it for money. Sometimes they have families to support and to put the food on the table. I don't understand your stance at all. Imagine... I woman stands on a street corner. She thinks "Fuck I hate doing this but I haven't eaten in days." The police come along, tell her she's doing something illegal, put her in the cells and the give her a fine. The fine 1) doesn't help her financial situation 2) gives her a criminal record making her feel more integrated into the criminal world and less able to find a job (if they ask about criminal convictions).
You are not advocating helping prostitutes, you are advocating making them suffer more.
There are multiple stories from prostitutes out there. There are documentaries showing the streetlife. This is not a big mystery, anyone who thinks prostitution is a choice or anything is ignorant, in my opinion.
Imagine this;
A russian woman is offered a job in America - it's her dreamjob, a hairdresser. The man who offered her this job is paying for her travel and everything.
When she arrives in America, things start to change, and the woman feels like something isn't right. She is then being put in a house, and she's being drugged.
They take her passport and any kind of ID, making it impossible for her to escape. They make her addicted to drugs, so she'll never have a reason to stop selling herself.
Imagine this;
A teenage girl runs away from her abusive home, and alcoholic parents. She has no where to go, and for weeks she eats stuff she'll find in the garbage. Then one day she meets this guy, who seems really nice at first, but after a couple of days changes drastically. He takes her to the same house the russian girl was taken to, and they do the same thing to this girl, as they did to the russian girl.
You know .. there will probably be a girl somewhere, who is simply looking for a decent meal, and doesn't really give a fuck who does her, but I am assuming that in your life you've met more than two women - you would know that women are vulnerable. Rape victims are ruined and scarred for their life, and prostitutes are the same. Even though they just want a meal, the scar on their soul can not be compared to a criminal record. Becuase the prostitute will never have a normal life, with or without a criminal record.
I am willing to let the 5%, who do it because they love it, suffer, if the rest can be saved.
Prove most woman are forced into it.
One source tells me 50,000 women and children are brought to America each year. According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children somewhere between 100,000 and 300,000 children are in danger to become sexslaves.
read that article. I will quote the one line supporting my argument; any people believe that prostitution is a choice and a valid career path. However, this is a fallacy. Nearly all prostituted women do not choose to engage in prostitution of their own volition, but rather have been forced or coerced against their will.
One source tells me 50,000 women and children are brought to America each year. According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children somewhere between 100,000 and 300,000 children are in danger to become sexslaves.
Look, the original poster clearly stated this is not about children. This was intended to stop the argument of "the children the children! Wont someone please think of the children!!". It has nothing to do with children and it is dishonest to use them as an emotional ploy in an argument that has nothing to do with them. (oh and I have no idea what 'in danger of becoming sex slaves' means. I could legitimately say there are billions of children in danger of becoming sex slaves by being allowed to leave the house).
You know .. there will probably be a girl somewhere, who is simply looking for a decent meal, and doesn't really give a fuck who does her, but I am assuming that in your life you've met more than two women - you would know that women are vulnerable. Rape victims are ruined and scarred for their life, and prostitutes are the same. Even though they just want a meal, the scar on their soul can not be compared to a criminal record. Becuase the prostitute will never have a normal life, with or without a criminal record.
Yes and you are advocating punishing this girl.
This is not the story for everyone. A friend of mine occasionally did prostitution. She was a pole dancer and quite liked the feeling of takings hundreds of pounds from men for quick acts of sex. She felt empowered and knew she could stop at any time. I knew her because we used to play Ultima Online (an MMORPG) together. She should not be sent to jail or fined for doing this.
However, you have a point that pimping and trafficking force some woman into sex. That is why pimping and trafficking are illegal. This is enough. A civilised criminal justice system should only punish acts that cause harm to others. There is absolutely no justification for punishing the prostitute. Even if it is for her own good. This is not how society should function.
I am willing to let the 5%, who do it because they love it, suffer, if the rest can be saved.
Who cares of a few thousand people (this is probably 5% of the total number of prostitutes) go to jail? They're only prossies after all. Well that attitude has its problems. No innocent person should be imprisoned for the good of other. My friend and thousands like her should not suffer for doing something she wants to do. We do not sacrifice people for the good of society.
Look, the original poster clearly stated this is not about children.
Where is the original poster?
Yes and you are advocating punishing this girl.
You don't want her to have a decent life, if that's not a punishment I don't know what is.
This is not the story for everyone.
For most of them, this is the exact story. And I've given you links and articles to prove this.
A civilised criminal justice system should only punish acts that cause harm to others. There is absolutely no justification for punishing the prostitute. Even if it is for her own good. This is not how society should function.
Prostitution causes harm to the prostitute herself. Did you see the last link I gave you? A prostitute gets in average beat up 12 times a year, out of 100,000 prostitutes 204 of them are murdered, they have unprotected sex 300 times a year, which practically gives them every std out there, half of them are HIV positive, the average age when a girl starts as a prostitute is 14 years old, NOT NEARLY OLD ENOUGH to make such a decision. You say it's not about children, even though it is. You turn the blind side to an industry that is so so so wrong.
The most important fact in the link I gave you is that 92% of prostitutes want to quit, but can't becuase due to lack of money or food.
We do not sacrifice people for the good of society.
Should we sacrifice people for horny men, who aren't charming enough to score instead?
Explain to me. How would making it illegal stop it happening? If it is legal woman can approach professionals I say "look, I'm a prostitute I need help". With your idea you make them criminals. Criminals are bad people that should be in jail. They're not going to get help.
Pimping and trafficking is illegal. How would the fact that prostitute is illegal persuade pimps and traffickers to stop?? Doesn't make any sense. You're saying the prostitute has no control in this.
For most of them, this is the exact story. And I've given you links and articles to prove this.
Tell me, if stories like my friends were common, would they be published on the type of site that you linked me too? They are morally opposed to prostitution.
The most important fact in the link I gave you is that 92% of prostitutes want to quit, but can't because due to lack of money or food.
99% of people probably want to quit they job if money wasn't an issue too. So actually prostitutes are more satisfied than most people it seems!!
For most of them, this is the exact story. And I've given you links and articles to prove this.
That's stupid. I want her to have a decent life. There are a number of initiatives to help prostitutes. Your idea of locking them up doesn't help anyone. They'll still do it and get locked up as a result.
they have unprotected sex 300 times a year, which practically gives them every std out there, half of them are HIV positive,
In the Netherlands where it is regulated it is illegal for a prostitute to have unprotected sex and they must be HIV tested.
gets in average beat up 12 times a year
I wonder which country that stat is from? I imagine that this is worse in countries where prostitution is illegal. If a prostitute goes to a police station, admits doing something illegal and says they got hit in the process - whose going to give a fuck? It is only by legitimatising prostitution that you can protect prostitutes. If someone gets hit during the course of their profession, rather than during criminal activity, they might actually be taken seriously.
Why does the prostitute have to be the cirminal in order to make it illegal? There are two people who are making the crime happen, so why only blame the girl?
Prohibiton, regulation, abolition - The prohibitionist approach is characterized by criminalization of all prostitution-related activities: soliciting, procuring, pimping, and brothel keeping. The regulation approach is characterized by the legalization and regulation of the sex industry. The abolitionist approach is characterized by the treatment of women and children used in prostitution as victims in need of services and the treatment of the buyers and traffickers as perpetrators. In this scheme, those who sell sex acts are decriminalized, whereas those who buy others for sex are criminalized.
You don't have to make the prostitute a criminal, even though prostitution is illegal.
99% of people probably want to quit they job if money wasn't an issue too
What? No, that's not true at all. Most people, I know, like working. People who don't work are more than three times as likely to suffer from depression and other mental disorders.
I want her to have a decent life.
No you don't. You want her to either sell her own body for sex, or put her in prison? How are either of those a life worth living?
In the Netherlands where it is regulated it is illegal for a prostitute to have unprotected sex and they must be HIV tested.
But they do it anyway, because unprotected sex gives more money.
I wonder which country that stat is from? I imagine that this is worse in countries where prostitution is illegal.
Studies of countries that have attempted a decriminalization approach with the goal of regulating the industry and/or attempting to support women have shown that these methods have not been successful. For example, in parts of Germany, Australia and the Netherlands, where governments have supported a legalization scheme, there has been an expansion of the sex industry. Further, women in these areas still report high levels of violence perpetrated by buyers. Under a legalization scheme, enforcement can also suffer because efforts are spent regulating the legal aspects of the sex industry rather than law enforcement focusing on the perpetrators and the illegal aspects.
Why does the prostitute have to be the cirminal in order to make it illegal? There are two people who are making the crime happen, so why only blame the girl?
Well this is the first time that you've brought this point up in this debate... I agree that soliciting sex for payment should be illegal. Prostitution should not.
What? No, that's not true at all. Most people, I know, like working. People who don't work are more than three times as likely to suffer from depression and other mental disorders.
I suspect it is more that people that are depressed and have other mental health problems are more likely not to have a job rather than people that don't have a job are more likely to be depressed or have other mental health problems.
If you asked most people if they'd still work if they won the lottery, they'd say no.
No you don't. You want her to either sell her own body for sex, or put her in prison? How are either of those a life worth living?
Ah right you understand exactly what I meant. good. I thought we were going round in circles. Absolutely - I want her to sell her body or go to jail. Great. Fantastic... for fucks sake. Also, I think it is very immature to try and judge what is and is not a 'life worth living'.
But they do it anyway, because unprotected sex gives more money.
The point was that there wouldn't be an average 500 unprotected sexual encounters per prostitute per year.
studies of countries that have attempted a decriminalization approach with the goal of regulating the industry and/or attempting to support women have shown that these methods have not been successful. For example, in parts of Germany, Australia and the Netherlands, where governments have supported a legalization scheme, there has been an expansion of the sex industry. Further, women in these areas still report high levels of violence perpetrated by buyers. Under a legalization scheme, enforcement can also suffer because efforts are spent regulating the legal aspects of the sex industry rather than law enforcement focusing on the perpetrators and the illegal aspects.
I find this to be highly biased... the expansion of the sex industry is not in itself a bad thing. Also is no reason why law enforcement would lose funding just because they decide to fund regulation of prostitutes - that is absurd. It says 'high level of violence'. It is unclear whether this is less than under non-regulated systems. I suspect for a project with the purpose of 'empowering woman' they could legitimately say that two violent attacks a year was a 'high level of violence'. It needs to be comparative.
If you asked most people if they'd still work if they won the lottery, they'd say no.
I asked everyone in my family just now, some of my friends too. Only one of them said they wouldn't work and that was a 15 year old boy.
I am raised in a country where working isn't something everyone has to do to survive, but most people generally wants to. No one wants to sit home and do nothing. I'm not saying most people would quit their current jobs, and get an education or something, but no one would just quit all work all together.
You are a lawyer, right? Those years in lawschool would have been a waste if the only reasonn you are doing it is because of the money.
Also, I think it is very immature to try and judge what is and is not a 'life worth living'.
Oh, how would you think if someone made you addicted to drugs and forced you to sell yourself on the street? And how would you feel when afterwards some idiots, probably the same idiots who purchased you for sex (just sayin'), said that your lifestyle was a choice?
The point was that there wouldn't be an average 500 unprotected sexual encounters per prostitute per year.
Yeah it would
Regulated prostitution has been done in Germany, Netherlands and Austria. That method didn't work.
You are a lawyer, right? Those years in lawschool would have been a waste if the only reasonn you are doing it is because of the money.
hehe, most lawyers have studied it for the money.
Oh, how would you think if someone made you addicted to drugs and forced you to sell yourself on the street? And how would you feel when afterwards some idiots, probably the same idiots who purchased you for sex (just sayin'), said that your lifestyle was a choice?
It is sometimes better to live that way that to starve to death. I don't think you should jduge.
Regulated prostitution has been done in Germany, Netherlands and Austria. That method didn't work.
You haven't showed me anything about whether it is worse in those countries or not.
That's sad, truly sad. Especially when you don't get that good a salary unless you are extremely good.
There are millionairs and billionairs all around the world. They still work. They pay thousands and thousands of dollars for their children to get a college degree - why would they do that, if their children can live of their money? Because everyone wants to do something.
I'm pretty sure you would get sick of spending your entire day on create debate after winning the lottery, and you would soon go back to work.
It is sometimes better to live that way that to starve to death. I don't think you should jduge.
I said you should give them a home and help them get an education. You are very cynical - either they sell themselves for sex, starve to death or go to prison - those are your only options for these women, where 92% wanna stop what their doing.
You haven't showed me anything about whether it is worse in those countries or not.
Yes I did, you should click on some of the links I gave you.
If prostitutes are so pro-prostitution, why don't you ever see them protest?
Hey, why don't you go and collect all your prostitutes, who you claim like what they do, or have nothing against doing what they're doing, and ask them to protest.
Because many people, such as you, think it should be made illegal. Societies views prostitutes as the lowest of the low. They shouldn't be viewed this way. Prostitutes are never going to be able to get help for the problems they encounter if it is part of illegal activity. It needs to be legitimised.
Are you saying that in order to be a prostitute you have to have diseases? There are many clean prostitutes and indeed every prostitute has a social obligation to make sure they're clean. It is a legal requirement in the Netherlands, for example.
Awesome. I just think prostitution is a sign that the person selling their body has been betrayed by the system. No one sels their body for kicks. People do it cuz they were raped, beccause they are starving, etc or they are forced to do it.
Actually, that's not true. There are some. I think it may even be a pretty high percentage (10-20%). If you think about it, it is really easy to do, and you can get money for something that others give away for free. That appeals to some people. Everyone is wired differently.
Aids is a disease, just like the flu. You can't arrest some people for spreading certain diseases, but others not. What about the swine flu? That's a pretty nasty one too right, should I be arrested for spreading that?
Thats the thing about me. I dont care. You believe whatever and ill do the same. Im not changing my mind. If someone knows they have AIDS, hides their status, and someone gets AIDS because of their lies, they are a murderer that shoould end up in jail.
You can live a regular long life with aids, the only reason you die from aids is if you live in Africa or India. With medicine aids is not a lifethreatening disease.
Now to the rest of your argument.
I'm sorry - but that is ridiculous for two reasons:
1. Let's say that you are the king of the world, and you have made this a law;
If someone knows he has aids, and has unprotected sex with another person, he or she will be punished with jailtime
If I have unprotected sex with someone who knows he has aids, and later on it so turns out that I have aids too - know I choose to report this person to the police for giving me aids. My question is Dana, how can I ever prove to the police that this is the person who gave me aids? I could just as easily have gotten it from any other person.
2. If it's illegal have unprotected sex when you know you have aids, must it then be illegal to go to work knowing you have the flu? Is it illegal to shake hands if you forgot to wash your hands after the visit to the toilet? Imagine - every single french person would probably be in jail, for giving people diseases via those little kisses they give each other on the cheek.
Your opinion is irrational and unrealistic, and you should watch yourself when saying things like that out loud - who knows you might be the reason for somebody elses diarrhea
A lot of things are wrong Dana. Jailtime for everything that's wrong is going to give everybody alive a cirminal record. Nobody is sinfree, you're a christian right? You believe in that.
Of course everyone does wrong things. i swore like a drunken hooker when I had to get up but there is a dif between being rude and ruining someones life. Its just my belief, I hope I dont sound rude hun. :)
Ill take some time to think about this. Maybe I am wrong. I would just hate myself if i made someone sick. May I ask you something without seeming rude? i want your op on something.
Alternatively, you could redirect your energies to addressing the social pressures that lead individuals into prostitution and pursuing/punishing those who force people (predominantly women) into prostitution against their will (e.g. traffickers, pimps, family members, etc.). Also, stop pretending that those who hire the services of a prostitute are not fully aware of the disease risk; why not penalize them?
Or would all of this be too practical for your moral sensibilities?
Fallacy. You don't have a logical response so you say something completely irrelevant as an emotion plea. Him: "Prostitution shouldn't be illegal" - you: "I was raped. I hate rape.I hope thats okay with you!".
Not a fallacy. I want to ban prostiution because it victimizes the person selling their body. No one sits and thinks "gee honey I think Ill screw the whole town for a 100 dollars and get a disease. You wanna join me.". They do it because they are so bloody tired of being raped by dad or beaten by Mom that they either do that or kill their parents and the3 death penalty sucks so turning tricks it is. I almost became a prostitute so I know what these girls are thinking, and I would not punish them, I would punish the idiots that drive them to do that in the first place.
I utterly fail to see how criminalizing women who are victims of prostitution rings and sex slavery fights rape culture. My express point is that your advocacy does more to hurt women than to help them, and that we should be going after the people and institutions that drive harmful prostitution practices.
P.S. You should know by now, I hold no moral sensibilities.
I would never punish victims of forced prostiution. remember that rape culture I mentioned? if I punished victims i would be part of the rape culture and I would rather die. You bet I wanna stick it to the jerk wads that pimps these kids. I wanna ban sex tourism, all that. I am talking about grown adults who choose to sell their bodies. for one if we had a good education, job training, and econom,ic system, prostiution would almost dissappeart. For two, pedos need to be shot.
This is what I do not understand. Making prostitution illegal de facto criminalizes anyone who is a prostitute. Laws targeting pimps and consumers would be laws banning trafficking and solicitation.
I agree regarding the importance of education, employment, economy, etc.
I disagree that those with pedophilia need to be shot. For one, not all pedophiles act upon their desires; some fight the desires (which they did not ask for) their entire lives. Reducing the stigma around pedophilia as a psychological condition would help people to get the help and support they need to manage their impulses before they get out of control. For those who cannot ultimately manage their condition, commitment to a specialized psychiatric facility would be more fitting than execution.
In short, I consider morality to be a subjective construction of the human mind with limited personal practical value. I appreciate that it has a role in society, and in the lives of most people. For me, though, I find it distorts reality and perverts objective consideration of reality. I reject morality as a personal framework; I am amoral.
One the main reasons so as to why they are doing this is money I bet poverty and the evil society . This is not love its selling love on a trade , something that is not a good thing at all . I believe problem is in the countries . Officials must take full responsibility for stopping this malpractice at all costs.
In theory, requirements of regular STD testing by the workers should help reduce the spread of them. You can't exactly expect that to happen when the industry is illegal.
As long as it is illegal, most prostitutes feel they have no recourse if their pimps or Johns get abusive or refuse to pay for services rendered.
It is, on premise, a victimless crime. The exception to this is the spread of stds, which, as I stated above, I believe should decline on legalization.
What individuals choose to do with their own bodies is their own damn business. Criminalizing prostitution penalizes what can be a safe and consensual exchange, without actually helping those who are driven into prostitution by financial or other pressures.
By your logic, then, it should be illegal for people to share drinks or have not-for-profit sex outside of a steady monogamous relationship. The reality is that prostitution does not inherently have to spread disease anymore than other sexual encounters; that it does so presently is largely a consequence of its being illegal and thus wholly unregulated and actively pushed into arenas where workers cannot care for themselves properly.
1. Sources, please. Bear in mind that research should control for all other risk factors (e.g. access to testing, safer sex resources, education, etc.).
2. Promiscuity is not limited to those engaged in prostitution. If you propose to make prostitution illegal on this basis alone then you must also advocate making non-transactional promiscuous sex illegal (otherwise, your stance is hypocritical).
3. If everyone involved in the sexual encounter is aware of the disease risks why should they not be permitted to engage in the act?
Logic itself does not say that. I personally know of people in polyamorous relationships, what you would likely call promiscuous, who are safer and healthier about their sexual activity than those who identify as monogamous and/or have had fewer partners.
You have, once more, utterly failed to address my counterpoint. You have similarly failed to present any evidence to support your view despite repeated calls to do so. You have also failed to address the hypocrisy innate in your statement if you do not also wish to criminalize non-prostitution promiscuity. Your ridicule and the thoughtless downvotes are no longer worth my time.
Okay wow. I disagree and you throw a fit. Calm down dude, its a debate site and downvotes dont mean anything nor do upvotes. You dont see me crying over votes.
With all due respect, I never lost my calm. You did. You basically came at me calling me pro-rape because of the way your were misconstruing my arguments. My point was solely that I was uninterested in continuing to post when my points were not being given due consideration. I understand that this is a visceral issue for you, but because of how that was tempering your replies I was finding it increasingly not worthwhile to engage on the matter.
P.S. You still have not addressed any of my arguments on promiscuity, polyamory, and prostitution. You still have not presented any actual evidence. You see my point?
Youre mistaken. I did not call you prorape. You misunderstood me. I dont call people like you prorape cuz youre not, and I was not once angry at all. Im chillaxing at my computer hanging out. Nothing to fight about. Come one.
I do not think this constitutes drama, or a petty fight. It is entirely natural for people to have disagreements and to talk through them. Apparently that is not going to happen, however, so fine: I will move on.
I would love to maintain civil disaggreent with you. Worship purple flying unicorns if you want. I just feel really bad that you think I was infering something bad on you and it makes me really sad. I like you and I wish we could talk. For the rcord it is hard to read minds on the net. If a wire got crossed, Im sorry.
I honestly think crossed wires is all that happened. Then, for whatever reason, this whole thing ran away from both of us. I do not think either of us intended to hurt/upset/sadden the other, given our otherwise congenial history.
More often then not yes. However, is making prostitution illegal itself doing anything for this? It is already well-known that STDs are risks faced by sex workers and their clients. Neither this risk nor the illegality of it has managed to change that. What it does do, however, is severely decrease the chance that sex workers are going to get tested.
If it is legal, liscensing can be established, and as a requirement of the liscensing, regular testing would be required. Those who do not pass the test or do the testing as per local requirements lose their liscence, cannot work openly, are much less competitive compared to those who are legal and certified clean.
I STRONGLY believe that legalizing prostitution will decrease the spread of STDs among sex workers, and therefore among the general population. Also, it would mean they could have legal recourse if their pimps or johns get abusive. When illegal, they wouldn't think of turning to police or hospitals for help. In fact, they would have good incentive to avoid them.
The way I see it, prostitution is going to happen whether it is legal or not. My suspicion is that legalization and regulation of prostitution would provide better protection for the women in the industry as well as those who will inevitably join the industry (and their clients).
It will give them legal means to protect themselves and force them to do some things they wouldn't otherwise (namely STD tests). It can also be confined to certain areas of town, out of sight, out of mind for people who find it discomforting.
It would also add a new taxable industry, which our economy could use more of.
And as I explained above, I do believe it could help reduce STDs, How much, I don't know, but any improvement should be encouraged.
Assuming they are NOT spreading disease, then it is a victimless crime. So if we can minimize the transfer of disease to lower than current levels, I would say it is irresponsible to keep it criminalized.
No one has the right to spread disease? Most people spread diseases without knowing they are infected. Take the common cold for example. Once you catch it the bacteria takes awhile to bring you the symptoms of being sick. However you can still infect other people. Same can be said for people with HIV. Some may not have a clue they have a disease until a symptom appears. So if a prostitue has sex 3 times a day in ome week then she may have potentially infected 21 individuals unknowingly.
Most of the problems of prositution come from the vunerbilities of the workers since they have no protection under the law. If it was legal, they could unionize and create better working condtiontions and be safer when conducting buissness.
Predominantly, I have nothing against prostitution, that is regulated. It pains me to see prostitution is films, with women seen to be abused and constantly on drugs - complete messes, frankly. That sort of prostitution should not be condoned.
However, I believe the trade would be perfectly adequate, should the world's governments regulate it - allow businesses to specialise in such an industry, and create an industry that must provide safe environments for their 'staff', regular health checks, security features (alarms, etc), and ensure a fair payment for those in the trade. Really, legalising and regulating the industry, instead of ensuring its criminalisation and maintaining what can only be described as a dangerous practice (as it stands), will ensure the safety of so many vulnerable women whom have little other choice for work, and are in danger because of what they do.
Even if against the law, prostitution will be a part of life for so many, but governments can make the practice safer.
What individuals choose to do with their own bodies is their own damn business. Criminalizing prostitution penalizes what can be a safe and consensual exchange, without actually helping those who are driven into prostitution by financial or other pressures.
Whatever a person chooses to do with their body is their own business, not anyone else's. If they wish to sell their own body for sexual activities then let them do it. While it is generally not morally encouraged, some people are not as fortunate and have to resort to prostitution for a living. No one is asking or forcing you to have sex with a prostitute.