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Yes, it should be a private matter that does not influence government. The religious should keep their noses out of other peoples business and the irreligious should keep their noses out of other peoples business as well.
I interpret the word private to imply personally held and observed outside of the public and political spheres. Obviously, every person should have freedom of speech but in terms of observance that choice should absolutely be left to the private sphere and not imposed upon others against their will.
It really should be. It's perfectly okay to meet up with people who believe in the same thing, but going out and pretty much forcing it on others is not okay. Religion should stay out of government like it's supposed to but that obviously isn't happening. If someone doesn't believe in a certain religion then they shouldn't be forced to obey rules set by that religion. They shouldn't have to be forced to listen to its sermons.
I enjoy debating religion because it is a subject that has always interested me but I choose to keep my beliefs private as I think my beliefs are exactly that and if I was a follower of certain religions some Atheists would just dismiss my arguments as the ramblings of a "follower of bronze age myths" and vice versa if I was an Atheist some religous folk would discount my arguments because I would be an unbeliever, I have been told a couple of times on here that I shouldn't debate Christianity because those people assumed I was not Christian, this from Christians who are happy to spout about the evils of other religions. So much for not judging and loving your fellow man.
Rules or not, I think it should be a private matter that people take upon themselves not to bring up.
People often get offended when their religion is trampled on, yet other people, mainly atheists, feel a desire to correct people with a way of thinking not based in logic and science, they do so. So it comes to head butting over who's more right, and no one can prove either side wrong, so everyone leaves angry.
I'm not saying there should be a rule on it, but I think people should make an effort on their own to not be in people's face about their religions.
I really want to fight both sides for this but... I have to pick one... shame. Religion should be private in the sense that you can't condemn someone else for not being in a Religion but Religion should never be something you should just throw away and keep it in the corner of life. People in Religions believe it or not still is over powering the amount of people that are not so logically we have no right to tell the greater priority what they can do and what they can't but morally no one can tell anyone what to do.
Keeping religion a private matter would be best because it would stop a lot of stupid fighting. Well i say that but peoples sexuality are a private matter but will still cause fighting.
Making it a private matter would not solve anything all it would do is cause more problems because it will be telling the best part of the human race to keep something that they them selves have been able to express freely for over 300 years. but being able to tell someone that is dragging on about there religion to shut up would be amazing and especially if that's how it should be in the first place.
I agree that no one should be able to impose their views on the lives of others. Unfortunately, I do not think that it would tamp down on fighting as much as you think it would. Just because religion becomes less overt does not mean it is informing peoples' actions any less. I am for keeping religion out of the public system of governance but not for silence, because expression at least keeps the dialogue open and allows those beliefs to be challenged.
As far as "telling the best part of the human race to keep something[silent] that that they themselves have been able to express freely for only 300 years" - quite frankly, I find that offensive. You have very explicitly taken the stance here that the religious are superior to the non-religious which is highly prejudicial and a total fallacy. If anything, making religious people have to shut up and hide their beliefs might give them a taste of what it is like to be an atheist in a predominantly religious species that actively hates and silences non-theists.
I disagree rather vehemently that the freedom of belief and speech is equally protected for atheists and agnostics. As an openly avowed atheist I have consistently been silenced. There is no protection for atheists or agnostics from discrimination, even though prejudice against atheists makes such discrimination a consistent reality. I am also regularly subjected to laws in my personal life which are motivated by religious belief and that stand in direct contradiction to my personal beliefs.
To me, the issue at hand with this question is where the private becomes public. I think that expression actually does fall within private insofar as it is not forced upon anyone; no one has to agree because it is not invading the political and legal public systems of governance. It becomes non-private when that line is crossed and religion becomes law enforced upon other people who do not share in the same beliefs.
Agreed. I support freedom of belief over freedom of religion, because freedom of belief extends rights to non religious persons. The First Amendment should be changed to reflect this.
I don't think it should be a private matter. I do think that people should have a choice weather they want to believe something that may or may not be true. I feel sorry for them who THINK they HAVE to believe lest they suffer "eternal death."
People should be open in their beliefs and be able to express themselves outside of a confined enviroment. That's my opinion. Yes it can bother and offend you, but you have your own beliefs, you don't need to change theirs, nor do you need to express your hatred on to others.
I don't think my belief should be kept private because its actually a good thing to spread because when the person accepts Christ into their life, they are brought with hope and peace to know what their God has done for them because no other God did what Jesus did.
I agree. If you have discovered something great; a belief that has shaped your life for the better, then why keep it to yourself?
Also, I don't think that anyone should feel the need to keep their religion private. Especially if it's just because they are afraid of what others will think of them. Your religion is a large part of your culture and identity, so you shouldn't need to hide it.
I think that religion is a private matter insofar as it does not have a place in public governance. There are many things which are private to me - my beliefs, my orientation, my food preferences, etc. - and these remain private insofar as I am not forcing them upon others. Expression is not an imposition, it does not make the personal into a public edict that controls other people.
Also, while I agree that the religious should not have to hide their beliefs I think that if they had to they might finally appreciate a bit of what it is like to be an atheist in such a theologically driven society.
Well homosexuality is considered a sin in my belief because it says in the Bible that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven. In order for them to be a believer they musn't be a homosexual.
Jesus never said anything about Homosexuals that was a "mistranslation", the only time Homosexuality is mentioned is Leviticus which is old testament and you said that was for Jews not Christians. So Christians are basically in error in their bigoted view of Homosexuals, if you were truly Christian and followed the teachings of Christ you would accept Homosexuals as they are.
When taken in context Pauls writings in Romans is more about Idol worship and Pagan practices, he does write about unnatural acts but for a Homosexual same sex love is natural for a Hetrosexual it is unnatural he is more likely addressing Heterosexuals that engage in Homosexual practices but the majority of his ire is aimed at Pagan practices that some Christians of the day were involved in.
Oooooooooooooh. Now I am curious. If you don't mind:
for a Homosexual same sex love is natural for a Hetrosexual it is unnatural he is more likely addressing Heterosexuals that engage in Homosexual practices
Does it address what makes them think the person is a heterosexual if they are committing homosexual acts? I only ask because nowadays gay people are getting married in standard heterosexual marriages to cover up being gay because of the religious viewpoint on being gay.
When taken in context Pauls writings in Romans is more about Idol worship and Pagan practices
Can you explain how homosexuality can be confused for Idol worship and Pagan practices? What about the context changes that?
Romans 1:26.27 is the verse that a lot of Christians quote to support their Homophobia but this verse starts with "because of this" which meens that it is not a stand alone verse the and should be read in context with the other verses which start at 1:18 and finish at 32 because the big question now should be because of what? The previous verse refers to the Godless and Wicked and the following verse refers to people who worship idols that look like men, birds or animals a lot of the following verses refer to whats natural and loving people. So being gay is not a problem as this is natural (as long as your not godless or wicked), being straight and having gay sex or vice versa is a problem as this is not natural. Ok Atheists and Pagans get a bit of a raw deal out of this but at the same time probably aren't that bothered by what Paul had to say!!
Oh man, that sucks. Homosexuals enter into marriages which is unnatural because homosexuals shouldn't be committing heterosexual acts. So, by incorrectly interpreting the Bible the heterosexuals have forced the homosexuals to commit sins that displease God according to the rules set forth in the section of the Bible that has led them to condemn homosexuality. Holy cow, that is some irony.
Its some big irony and that is why Christians should be following one of the big rules of Jesus and not be judging others, most of the Biblical texts can be interpreted in many different ways its all about context and the surrounding verses, none of us will know for sure whose right until its too late so I dont see the point in using Religion to stir up hatred and i'm sure at the end if Heaven exists if people have lived good lives and done whats right I dont think Gods gonna be too worried about who they had sex with.
if you were truly Christian and followed the teachings of Christ you would accept Homosexuals as they are.
Why are you telling me this when your not a Christian yourself? Comeback to me when your a Christian and then maybe I will reconsider but since your not I wouldn't be even responding to me.
I believe what I want to believe and I do accept homosexuals as a person but I hate the sin that they commit and the Bible clearly states in a lot of the New Testament that homosexuality is wrong.
How do you know what Religion I follow, I have also studied Religion at school and throughout my Adult life so I feel I am in quite a good position to debate religion. What New Testament verses condemn Homosexuality?
Romans 1: 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Here it is. Theirs still a debate to be held because men with men in Greek could've meant a male prostitute (not my belief because of 2 Timothy I think where the word "whoremongerer" (KJV) appears and that SPECIFICALLY mean a male protistute and men with men appears as well)
26Â Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27Â In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Please see my earlier conversation with Cartman concerning this very verse, its all about context I dont think Paul was condemning Homosexuals but more the Godless and Wicked he talks about unnatural acts but to a Homosexual same sex love is natural so he is really condeming heterosexuals who engage in Homosexual acts
Romans 1:26.27 is the verse that a lot of Christians quote to support their Homophobia but this verse starts with "because of this" which meens that it is not a stand alone verse the and should be read in context with the other verses which start at 1:18 and finish at 32 because the big question now should be because of what? The previous verse refers to the Godless and Wicked and the following verse refers to people who worship idols that look like men, birds or animals a lot of the following verses refer to whats natural and loving people. So being gay is not a problem as this is natural (as long as your not godless or wicked), being straight and having gay sex or vice versa is a problem as this is not natural. Ok Atheists and Pagans get a bit of a raw deal out of this but at the same time probably aren't that bothered by what Paul had to say!!
Personally i have nothing against gay people. I don't have a gay phobia and many of my friends are either bi or gay. The verses follow very well. Man has turned the creation of God (he's talking about man here) into animals. To me this sounds like the people who claim homosexuaslity is natural because other species do it. Man has demeaned themselves to be on the same level as animals and do not see themselves set apart by God. Because of this many people do not see a problem with homosexuality. It seems obvious but the religious answer only makes sense if you truly are a Christian.
Exactly, homosexuals are naturally with people of the same sex as designed by God. So, it is ok. But straight people are not supposed to be people of the same sex, so that is bad.
You left out the part where they "left the natural use of women" and this was considered wicked. God doesn't "design" gays, their is almost no geneticts involved. Its based on circumstances.
He mentions unnatural acts. Forgive me for taking that out of context. I was not intending for that to be proof. I was saying that I see him say those words and it makes me think that natural is subjective.
Its based on circumstances.
These circumstances were designed by God, therefore ok to be gay.
Just because you have friends who are claiming they are choosing doesn't mean most gays choose, nice try though. Make all of your friends sinners for not sticking to one or the other and leave the others as non sinners
That was my point. I can see the struggle. Many of the sins that you believe in are easily acceptable for everyone, but some sins are not.
Imagine this scenario. You find the love of your life, everything is going great, but you find out that it is a sin to be with that one person. Now this person is the only one you desire to be with, and being with anyone else feels wrong and makes you less happy. For arguments sake every other person in the world is ok. So, now in order for you to keep your religion you can't be with the actual person you desire to be with. That's the position you put some people in, so your blanket statement that accepting Christ makes everything better kind of fails.
I didn't realise Jesus was a God in the first place... Oh well :) Well religious people always complain about atheists parading their beliefs too much, but hypocrites like you think you rule the world and dictate to others what to believe. Have your damned beliefs, they don't bother me. What bothers me is you trying to shove them down my throat.
I am not trying to shove them down anyone throat. Its anybody's choice if they want to believe. If someone doesn't want to talk about it in the real world I don't talk to them about it. If someone does want to talk about it then I will talk about it. Its up to the person who wants to talk about it or not.
And I don't think we rule the world. Right now as I see it, its mostly non-believers that ruling the world right now because of what is happening in the music industry, media, and etc.
Seriously? You think atheists hold the preponderance of power? The vast majority of people - in music, media, politics, and etc. - are religious. Atheists are a minority, comprising only 5% of the population in the United States. Atheists are the most reviled and distrusted group in the country, with studies showing we are hated more than any other minority group in the entire country. If atheists were in power there would be no "In God We Trust" on our money, religion would not influence the debate on abortion, same-sex couples could marry, politicians would swear in on the Constitution instead of holy scripture, and so forth.
It's so annoying, yet interesting, that atheists are seen so low. Even below rapists. xD (Referencing studies - Although these are probably from a few years ago. I can't remember when I read about all of these kinds of things)
Frankly I find it to be far more than an annoyance, but I appreciate your sentiment. And yes, you are correct. The majority of Americans view atheists as worse than rapists and pedophiles which is nothing short of absurd.
That's true. Although I've only ever read about it. I personally am a agnostic atheist, and I've never been 'attacked' over it. Although I have debated it many times. And it's interesting how 'ignorant' so many 'believers' seem to be, being that some people that were hostile online, became much more 'understanding' once I explained my beliefs to them. Although I'm pretty sure that agnostics aren't seen as poorly as atheists, but I'm more inbetween. Also I'm anti-social, so not many people know my religious standpoint. (Although I'm sure some people 'wonder', since I've never 'stood for the pledge'.) ...Although addmitedly I just use my religious stand point as an excuse to be lazy and not 'pledge my allegionce'. This was quite a ramble. o.o lol, sorry.
It is interesting to me how agnosticism gets treated both by theists and atheists. In many ways, I have seen as much hostility from atheists towards agnostics as I have from theists. I think agnostics get reduced to "fence-sitters" too easily and too often. I think you are probably correct though that atheists get a worse rep than agnostics, if for no other reason than that we are more diametrically opposed to theism and more well-defined in the eyes of theists. A lot of people just don't seem to know what to do with agnosticism.
And please, by all means ramble. I am particularly fond of it myself. :)
Mhmm. Agnosticism is just one of the most passive veiwpoints when it comes to religion, that said, it makes a lot of sense that people don't know just what to do with them >..< And that's like my life story, being that I'm such a passive person. It's so hard to pick a topic for a essay, lol. xD It's why mathematics is where I plan to aim my life towards. It's just black and white, emotion and opinions won't change what's right or wrong. ^.^ Yay math! lol.
Actually the vast majority of the music,media, politics aren't religious if you look at today's society music its bad to me because the Illuminati is behind the music industry and the media and the shows we watch. The Eye of Horus is actually in some of our music and TV shows and movies because if you really watch closely at the movies you would see the Illuminati sign and the Eye of Horus. The Eye of Horus is a Egyptian symbol but it means to worship Satan. And many of the Hollywood singers cover there eyes so that one eye is shown and that means they are showing the Eye of Horus which is to worship Satan
I will give your assertion credence when you actually give me the slightest evidence that it is true. It is controversial what the Illuminti is, let alone if it even exists with any degree of power today.
The Eye of Horus is an Egyptian religious symbol. If satanists appropriated it your argument still does not amount to anything because satanism is a form of religion and not of atheism. More importantly, the mere presence of non-Christian symbolism does not mean that it has higher prevalence than Christian symbolism or even that non-Christian influences hold the majority of power.
Watch this video and it will explain what the Eye of Horus is and how its in our media and how Satanism is in our media. There are 16 parts which alone is 16 videos.
The Eye Of Horus has nothing to do with Satanism, it's the personification of the Goddess Wadjet and is a symbol of power and protection hence its proliferation in Egypt and its use on ships and the tombs of Pharoahs. I couldn't watch your video on my phone, was it by a real historian or non biased proffesor of Theology or off one of the Christian channels?
Thanks for that if it was a video with no bias I might be interested but a video with a Christian or Muslim or whatever Religous bias will always have an ulterior motive, usually to sell books or more videos!!
That is the problem with videos like this they have a Christian bias, it would be like using a video from a Nazi website to show the truth about Hitler
That is what all non-believers say about the videos I post about this kind of stuff . Its just an excuse to not watch it. So what if its biased or not just watch the video you will learn something.
None actually because if I read non-biased research it would have said its not Satanic. And that is what the Satan likes to do. He wants you to think its not true when it actually is or try to deceive you.
How do you know if you have never researched it yourself and just believe what you have been told in a video, maybe the guys that made the video are secrectly Satanists as you say he is a deceiver what better way to deceive than trick Christians down the wrong path with a video, your already ignoring one of Jesus' important teachings about not judging others.
I aoologise if this seems agressive it is not intended to be.
I wasn't judging anybody what makes you think I am? I know that they aren't Satanists because of the content they produced and some of the comments he replied to in his videos and if they were Satanist why are the posting stuff about the Illuminati and the Satanism in the media then? Its quite obvious that they aren't Satanists.
You have decided the Eye Of Horus is Satanic, in so doing you have judged peoples beliefs, you have judged that an independent unbiased historian or egyptologist would tell you the Eye Of Horus is not Satanic and that they would be lying. You dont think the makers of this video could be Satanist because of the content they post, you said yourself Satan is a deceiver what better way to deceive and trick people than by using what they believe and they have deceived you about the Eye Of Horus already.
Now how about answering my other questions which I keep asking and yoy keep ignoring.
I watched your video and not once does it connect the Eye Of Horus with Satanism apart from some reference to the Illuminati being Satanists, which as they are meant to be a secret society no-one knows tge truth about, also all the stuff about Horses does that meen everyone who rides a Black, White or Red Horse is a Satanist. Did you understand what Prodigy said in that video free your mind, basically dont believe everything thats spoon fed to you by the government and media find out for yourself the only way you will do that is by questioning and doing your own research and the best way to do that is using unbiased sources. All you have done is used one biased source, not a sign of someone who wants to free their mind. Also in your video there was Jewish, Taoist and Buddhist symbols mixed in with the Masonic and "Illuminati" symbols are they Satanists as well? If I was you i'd question why the people made this video are they trying to spread dissent amongst people of other religions? Maybe by doing that they can speed up the end of days, do you know for a fact that the video makers are honest Christians or do they have a secret agenda?
Remember the powers that be wether its government or religion dont like questions because the No 1 enemy of progress is silence, if you take anything from that video it should be to free your mind and dont believe everything that is spoon fed to you.
You have to keep watching the video's because there are 16 parts to it. I am on part 10 right now I only need 6 more to go. And it explains a lot in part 2-3. I do question a lot of the stuff I watch and I see the signs out there in the real world that we have. Most of the logos are apart of the Illuminati and other things as well but we don't know because they are secretly controlling us.
What about my other questions, I was concerned about the use of Jewish, Taoist and Buddhist symbols in there portraying them as being bad and as a matter of interest when you have questions where do you go for answers research non biased places for information or just rely on your Bible and Christian websites you have been told are good for you? have you looked into the Eye Of Horus or are you relying on what this video has told you? You wont free your mind that way you need to do that on your own yes it can be scary but it will pay off.
If the Illuminati have apprpriated the Eye Of Horus and other symbols and perverted its use to their own ends then that is bad obviously but that is what makes finding out the truth about the symbol even more important. The Nazis perverted the Swastika does that now meen that Hindus, Buddhists and Native Americans are as bad as them?
I'd say it's more the other way around music is more dominated by Christians and other religions rather than Atheists, to name a few off the top of my head Alice Cooper, Dee Snyder and Dolly Parton are all Christians, Kiss are Jewish, most of Public Enemy were either Christian or Muslim, Beastie Boys are Buddhist, Biggie Smalls was Christian thats just off the top of my head
A lot of the music isn't dominated by Christians and other religions. Its mostly non-Christian crappy music that people like to listen to. If you took a survey on which is more popular Christian or non Christian music the majority would say that its non Christian.
One thing you need to realize is, even if you see him, god, as your 'savior', your belief. Don't you think it's offencive to look down on other beliefs? Wouldn't you feel offended if someone told you that you're 'stupid' for beleiving in god, and that something else is the right way to go? I'm not saying your belief is wrong, and I'm not saying that you should change your belief, but you shouldn't assume that others are better off the way you are.
No I wouldn't feel offended when people insult my belief for believing in God because my belief tells me that many people will make fun of you for believing in Him. So when people make fun of me I am suppose to rejoice and bless God because that's what it says in His Word.
>.< Well good for you. What I'm saying is, most people don't like one 'threatening' their beliefs. I know many religious, and non-religious people that are like this.
Yeah but I don't care they can bash me all they want. Plus there is going to be a lot of idiotic people in this world but we have to put up with them everyday.
You are wrong. He has done nothing wrong. It is not hurtful. He has the right to freedom of belief, and freedom of speech. If you do not like it, do not listen.
>.< I never said he did anything wrong. Stop making assumptions. All I was stating is that it's not right to try to force others into changing their beliefs. Key word "Force", I'm not saying he can't go around talking about what he wants to.
If it is such a well known and obvious fact inherent to all of mankind, then why was it and why is it not practiced more? A truly ignorant person is one who sees the truth and chooses to disregard it.
Human beings do not have a right to anything. But we can make life better for ourselves by adopting ideals and other sociocultural structures. But when you reduce everything to cold hard facts, you realize humans are just intelligent animals.
There, I said it. We're just a bunch of animals. We have no right to live, though we are certainly welcome to try according to the laws of nature. And it's something we do quite well due to our knack for technology and community. So yeah.
But please, don't take this as an indication that you yourself should open your eyes to what's obvious to every sane, rational human being. Go ahead and keep espousing your own ideals regardless of how much it hurts you in the long run.
Are you saying that my Grandpa does not have the right to his atheist belief? The nonreligious have the same right to freedom of belief as the religious. Even you have the right to your belief.
Yes, I am saying your Grandpa does not have the right to his atheist belief. Just as you don't have a right to whatever the hell you believe in (I doubt you believe in Christianity or Judaism, after all). Even I don't have the right to believe, well, anything.
I mean, if you can disprove me go ahead. Though I'd want to look for something a bit less abstract and something more concrete.
The 'right' to anything is simply an idea, a concept if you will. And it's an illusion. Sure it's served us well in keeping society together and defining boundaries, but when you look at it objectively... we don't have any rights to anything. Just like everything else.
You misunderstand. I'm saying that if you say I have no right of something, then you also don't have that right. Because you are human. If you were truly for your god then you'd realize how fallen mankind really is.
As for 'proving' your point, that's only in your head darling. So enjoy the applause that can only be heard in the vast cavern of your mind.