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No, I believe that teens, age 13 and up are old enough to decide if they want to go to church or not. I think being force to go to to church, and be told to believe something they don't can ruin a teens confidence, not to mention all the lgbt+ teen who are to scared to come out, and what that can do to their confidence.
Teens should be able to decide for themselves if they want to go to church or not. If they want to, that's fine by me, so long as they weren't forced or pressured into going.
I agree that teenagers are old enough to know whether they want to go to church. I can speak from the perspective of boys' development and I suppose there is a parallel for girls too. It is natural for boys from age 8, in the company of peers, to begin to look outside of the family to other adults in their lives who can introduce them to new aspects of the world; teachers, youth leaders, older boys, coaches, and such. They nevertheless remain close to their parents and guardians in general. Puberty will see a more radical change from the home to peers and the identity of themselves as separate from the home and loyal to friends. It is the beginning of living their own lives. Traditional churches such a Catholic and Episcopalian will recognize this and allow members to either be confirmed or not. If the churches understand this, how could parents undermine confirmation by forcing a teenager to attend regardless of the adolescent's faith or none?
No, I think if they hit that age they should be able to decide for themselves. But the flip side to that is if they are mature enough to be left alone in the house during the time their parents/guardians go to church.
As soon as a child is old enough to say "no" they should be allowed to choose not to be a retarded christian or adhere to any other form of religious mental slavery.
The argument can certainly be made that religion has been used as a manipulative tool to control the individual, but only if you allow it to. My family happens to be among the more avid churchgoers who follow a more rigorous lifestyle based upon scripture, and this is where their opinions and mine differ. I believe that scripture is more of a set of moral guidelines rather than a factual story, much in the same way that many novels or other writings have a set of values behind them. There is much to be gained from reading the Holy Bible and other forms of religious texts aside from faith. In saying this, I believe that exposing children in moderation can provide them with a moral backbone and a set of values to guide them, aside from the more specific teachings of scripture.
Teens should do as their parents tell them as long as their parents are not telling them to hurt others or to violate the law. If a parent cannot tell a child to go to church and have the child respectfully obey, that parent has done a poor job of raising their child.
Several people here seem to think a teenager should have more or equal authority to their parents when living in their parents house. Are you one of those?
I personally would not require it. However, legitimately, until a juvenile is no longer a minor by age they need to abide by whatever (legal) behavioral requirements the parents put upon them, unless they file and win a legal separation from their parents.
Ideally, you want to have your kids educated in such a way that church environment is healthy for them. If it is healthy for them, they aren't going to have problems going to church, they will look forward to it.
Otherwise, if you want your kid to go to church, and they don't want to.. Ya'll have to figure out how to handle that one out yourselves.
Have you noticed that all the anti Christian bigots on this site have chimed in on not telling our children they have to go to church. WHAT A SHOCK!
I wonder if these same bigots have a problem with teens being forced to go to PC schools pushing their humanistic political correct religion?
Kids should always respect their parents and do what they are told (unless of course they have abusive parents).
They are being supported by their parents and until the day they support themselves, they should follow the wishes and rules of their parents.
This type of bigotted thinking only underscores how blind the Godless are to the wonderful family values derived from Church.
Bigots are so totally insecure, they hate seeing Christians having close loving families. It makes them feel badly about their choices in life. They must lash out at Christians and any Church speaking to the importance of family and moral values. So very important in keeping our children from lifetimes of broken homes, drugs, alcohol, promiscuous sex, etc. etc.
Now I want all the bigots on this site to scream out in unison how Christians are not perfect and also have family problems. Yes, no one is perfect, but after living a generation, I see the huge difference in the family structure of Christian families, and the Godless. Absolutely no question about it.
I have a large extended family, and out of the many marriages of siblings, nephews and nieces, there are just a couple divorces. Other than the couple divorces, All of the children are being raised by THEIR mother and father. No one living together out of wed lock. Go figure!
Christianity and Church are wonderful things for our teens to learn from.
To my knowledge the only call to kill non-believers is present in the old testament (Leviticus 24:16), which not every christian follows or views as legitimate religious scripture. I have verified this in my own copy of the KJV Bible.
I wonder if these same bigots have a problem with teens being forced to go to PC schools I think public schools are full of propaganda. Kids should always respect their parents and do what they are told Kids should always learn critical thinking skills and be taught to think for themselves, not be obedient little slaves who just accept everything their parents believe as absolute fact. They are being supported by their parents and until the day they support themselves, they should follow the wishes and rules of their parents. Whether or not parents are supporting their kids doesn't have anything to do with whether or not their religious beliefs are true, so why should any child be forced to respect or follow their parents beliefs? This type of bigotted thinking only underscores how blind the Godless are to the wonderful family values derived from Church. What values are those? to do and believe whatever your parents say without question? because that's all I'm hearing from you christian bigots. They must lash out at Christians and any Church speaking to the importance of family and moral values. So very important in keeping our children from lifetimes of broken homes, drugs, alcohol, promiscuous sex, etc. etc. I am related to some very religious people and I have seen their kids and the kids of people they know go totally insane and start experimenting with all sorts of shit specifically because they are so sheltered and their parents are so strict and let me tell you, a lot of them would have been better off if they had divorced atheist parents and where allowed to openly smoke marijuana in the house by age 16 like I was.
What you just did was prove your hypocritical bigotted hatred towards Christians.
You would have no problem preaching your philosophy on life to your kids concerning marijuana, divorce, or any other thing you believe in, but when it has to do with Christianity, you are the judgmental bigot that says not to teach our children our Christian values.
You hypocritical fool!
Here''s a newsflash for bigotted hypocrites such as yourself. Christian parents believe what their faith teachers. They know the wonderful values their children will get from Christianity. They love their children and want them to have wonderful fulfilling lives, and when this life is over they want their children to be in Heaven.
What kind of bigotted fool does not get this? Oh, I forget, you are the all knowing bigot who has all the answers to life and judges others on how they raise their children.
Children shouldn't be brainwashed by their parents to believe in their parents' delusions. Children should be able to decide for themselves whether to go to church or not. That simple. Children should also decide for themselves if they believe in god or not. Parents shouldn't tell a child what to believe in.
@FromWithin, I think FactMachine made many very good, concise points (which address your original statements, and then you proceeded to bring up the same points that he just addressed in your rebuttal of his arguments (that is, you are repeating yourself and not addressing his challenges)).
For instance, here is a back and forth you two had, "FromWithin: Kids should always respect their parents and do what they are told. FactMachine: Kids should always learn critical thinking skills and be taught to think for themselves, not be obedient little slaves who just accept everything their parents believe as absolute fact. FromWithin: They are being supported by their parents and until the day they support themselves, they should follow the wishes and rules of their parents. FactMachine: Whether or not parents are supporting their kids doesn't have anything to do with whether or not their religious beliefs are true, so why should any child be forced to respect or follow their parents beliefs?" Now, in your response, I really think you have an obligation to respond to his challenge on along the lines of "who are parents to make children align with their worldview when every adult/parent/guardian knows full well that there are MANY competing religions and ways of viewing the world both with and without religion instead of teaching children critical thinking skills and allowing them to evaluate all the evidence for themselves and come up with their own conclusions on the matter? How is this not bullying children who are in the vulnerable position by both being younger/developing and being financially dependent on their parents/guardians growing up?"
Now, an example of religious parents teaching their child to think critically on the matter and being mature/responsible adults would be to be honest with your kids about what you (the parent) believes in "this religion" because (insert reasoning), and that other people believe "this religion" because (insert reasons), and others believe "that religion", ect. and others believe that all religions are Myths analogous to ancient Mythologies because (insert reasoning) and honestly explain the difference between a "faith-based worldview" and an "evidence-based worldview" and that, some people see a inescapable conflict between science and religion because of this, others think it is compatible, others reject science in favor of faith, I think "X". Allow your child/children to explore this for themselves and say something like, "if you want to come to Church with us that's cool, if you don't want to come to Church with us that's cool too."
How is it difficult to see that that is a more mature, sensible, non-dogmatic, loving, supportive way of raising children instead of acting like an insensitive, self-absorbed, self-righteous tyrant and bully toward children?
In fact, if a religious parent/guardian/adult does approach the topic with children like this, then I have absolutely no problem with such religious people. The problem is that this essentially never happens, because as soon as the "cat-is-out-of-the-bag" about what Science is and the fact that there are and always have been a subset of the population that views religions as mythology, religious parents/adults/guardians know (subconsciously or consciously) how enormous a challenge this is to their worldview and are concerned that their children would very possibly to likely not accept their beliefs if all the information was put out in front of them to think about it themselves.
When hypocritical fools such as yourself start talking to your children about how you support no restriction abortions of viable unborn babies, even special needs babies for merely being different, etc. etc., when you vote for politicians keeping it legal,
and when you explain to your children the prolife side of the argument of how science has proven it is a living growing human life at conception (not a blob of cells), and how viable babies after 20 weeks can survive outside the womb, so that your child can think critically concerning a human life and it's right to life, and how the value of the life is no different a month from birth versus after traveling down that birth canal,
then we will get back to each other on critical thinking.
Until then, spew your critical thinking rhetoric to someone who does not know your Liberal ilk. Your critical thinking is seldom taught to your children when it comes to political correct issues such as homosexuality, whereby biology shows the natural normal order of life, and the natural design of our bodies between man and woman.
Give your children the facts concerning all these unnatural sexual orientations so they can be well informed intelligent adults understanding the obvious norms of life versus political correct dogma.
@FromWithin, "Your critical thinking is seldom taught to your children when it comes to political correct issues such as homosexuality, whereby biology shows the natural normal order of life, and the natural design of our bodies between man and woman."
At least for Homosexuality, I have just shown you how in the "natural order of life", Homosexual behavior is common and provided a link to an article from the BBC addressing this point (in a separate debate we have had). As for what you stated in your previous hypothesis on that thread along the lines of "if homosexuality were a real thing in nature than we would expect all other animal species to have a subsection of their population that is homosexual." Now, this is not a true assertion. If there was even one other example of a separate animal species exhibiting homosexual behavior consistently as a subset of the population, than that would provide a framework of it be plausible for our species also. As it so happens, MANY different species of mammals display homosexual behavior consistently and we ourselves are mammals. Therefore, it is not at all surprising that we see this within a subset of the human population as well.
"When hypocritical fools such as yourself... "
I am certainly willing to concede that I am very much capable of being a hypocritical fool as it is part of the human condition to be not fully rational and display various forms of cognitive dissonance. Our brains, as humans, are bundles of cognitive biases and although I may not be aware of it, other people may clearly see when I am displaying two mutually incompatible beliefs at the same time. Having said that, I still think that you are wrong on the issue of "should teens be made to go to church by their parents/guardians?" for the reasons that I submitted. Just because a person could be wrong and critical thinking skills are in error on a separate issue (eg. abortion) in way necessarily discredits everything said person is arguing for another topic (they are separate issues and should be treated as such). If you want to talk about abortion, then make an abortion debate I will respond to you there on this topic but certainly not for every other single topic and post that you make (the same holds true for the Sexual Orientation topic).
I wll not debate a hypocrite preaching cherry picked critical thinking when it comes to issues he opposes, but is silent when it comes to critical thinking on issues of abortion, homosexuaity, etc.
You keep spewing the laughble deception of Gay animals. GET REAL! You have nothing but rhetoric from activist homosexual groups grasping at anything to make the unnatural natural.
You have not named one animal, any of us would know, who live homosexual lives not also having sex with the opposite sex. GET REAL!
Animals will many times hump any animals they can when in an aroused sexual state.
THAT IS NOT HOMOSEXUALITY! At best it would be a deceptive attempt at speaking to bisexuality.
Until you yourself become a critical thinker, I have no time for your cherry picked so called critical thinking.
@FromWithin, "I wll not debate a hypocrite preaching cherry picked critical thinking when it comes to issues he opposes, but is silent when it comes to critical thinking on issues of abortion, homosexuaity, etc."
Christianity and religion definitely have benefits, but I speak from experience when I say that one is perfectly capable of having a close, loving family when they are, using your derogatory term "Godless." Children shouldn't be forced to go to Church, but they should be educated on all sides of the equation before making up their mind. Religion is just not for some people, and it should be up to a teen whether or not they wish to go to church. Church does have good values for families to benefit from. (most of which, I should add, should just be basic human values)
If they live in my house they will go to church and they will act respectful and attentive during the services. When they move out of my house they can do whatever they please, even if they want to risk losing my support.
You are a C hole who has been huffing too much saint. You authoritarian child abusing scuzz bucket. People like you should remain abstinent so that no child has to endure your draconian and mentally ill attitude towards parenting.
Awwww, is the Hell bound sinner frustrated? Are you having trouble forgetting the shame of your sins? If you would get saved and know God's love, mercy, and forgiveness, you would love righteousness and the shame would fade into the past.
I don't read much of your posts because of the stupid things you say such as in the first few words here....people who act like you get less and less of my attention. Saying so reminds me to avoid reading your posts in the future.
If they live in my house they will go to church and they will act respectful and attentive during the services.
Yeah, my old man used to say, "while you live in my house" a lot too. It's the argument of a bully. You chose to have kids, not your kids, so why should they suffer because of your lunacy?
Nomenclature, I think you hit the point exactly. Parents who believe that can force their children into "falling in line" with their program and worldview are behaving as bullies and tyrants, as though the children are somehow the property of the parents and not independent human beings that have the desire/need to construct their own framework for their lives. By the time you are a teenage you are entering extremely formative years and going through a process of self-discovery through learning and questioning more about themselves, family, and world they live n and have the right to do this unfettered from the parent/guardians attempt to bully them into obedience and submission.
Thank you xMathFanx. I agree with everything you said. I especially agree that many parents view their children as their property; at least until they reach a certain age.
Oh, your father was a bully. Is that why you are so angry? You are bitter toward your father, angry at God for allowing such a dirt pile to have authority over you, so you want God dead, your father dead, and yourself dead and you hope you don't wake up in Hell?
If you feel your father is a bully, and you don't stand your ground, fight back, or leave, then you are a coward. If you could not be happy under your father's rules, then it's your problem. If you don't know how to deal with your problems, blaming your father sure is not going to help.
Don't blame me for your atheism. You choose atheism.......all I did here was state simply common sense about parental responsibility and authority over their children while their children are dependent on them.
Oh....almost missed your "see the light" comment. What light do you see? The train at the end of the tunnel?
