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Should the Ten Commandments be displayed in public schools?
Some schools have traditionally displayed the Commandments on walls – not as part of religious studies lessons, but rather as tools for moral instruction for their student
Why not? In God we trust is on our money. Senators and Congressmen begin their sessions with a prayer. The pledge of allegiance has "One nation under God" in it. The United States was formed with God in mind. This brings into light the following question. Is an atheist an American? (Don't debate this here, I started a debate with this title.)
"Why not? In God we trust is on our money. Senators and Congressmen begin their sessions with a prayer. The pledge of allegiance has "One nation under God" in it. The United States was formed with God in mind."
Please tell me your knowledge of the United States' history is deeper than that. It's pitiful that something as easily researched as our nation's founding principals is such uncommon knowledge these days.
The simple fact is: No. The United States was never created or founded with god in mind because countries that were founded with god in mind centuries ago did not have any kind of freedom for religious or personal beliefs. There would be a state religion, and unorthodox views would be treated as heretical at worst, leading to sectarian violence, or at best ostracism.
Secularism was a new idea, never tried before. However it prevented a State-sponsored church from controlling politics and demanding conformity towards one religion.
It was only centuries later that Christians started to use public sentiment to insert their religious creeds into our pledge, onto our money, and in our motto.
My knowledge is just fine. To debate is to make one think. Truth in my words, it is your job to prove me wrong. Homework, I only do my own. You will have to do yours.
Do the terms of the constitution negate the Ten Commandments?
(I am seeking to know your understanding of both the Constitution and the Ten Commandments.)
I recommend you chose your words wisely. This is not a flippant question.
I'm sure it's a very important question for you, but it is one which I have already thought over several times so I'll answer you simply.
The ten commandments:
II am the Lord your God
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
IIYou shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
IIIRemember the Sabbath and keep it holy
IVHonor your father and mother
VYou shall not murder
VIYou shall not commit adultery
VIIYou shall not steal
VIIIYou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
IXYou shall not covet your neighbor's wife
XYou shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor
The constitution itself has seven articles which explain the nature of the government, its limitations, state's rights, the division of powers, etc.
Then we approach the bill of rights, which describes the first ten amendments of the constitution.
ICongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Here it clearly states a separation between Congress and religious affairs. Now if you look back to the ten commandments, the first three are religious and completely unsupported by the first amendment.
The rest of the amendments, from two to twenty-seven, do not prohibit dishonouring of parents, theft, killing, coveting, or adultery. They do not even discuss it. That would fall under regular law, not the bill of rights. However even in that case I am unaware of any law that prohibits any of the actions in the ten commandments besides murder and theft.
"Most of the commandments are accepted by modern society - regardless of religion."
It's funny, you didn't list ALL TEN of them, which destroys your entire premise:
I am the Lord your God
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your father and mother
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor
The United States is secular, meaning it does not endorse a state religion. More importantly, only two of those commandments are laws (theft and murder).
I said 'most' of them are accepted by modern society - regardless of religion. I listed 'most' that are accepted (60%). I did not say that they were illegal - but accepted.
At the same time, however, wouldn't it be confusing to children who are not christian to have something on the wall that says "I am the lord your god, you shall have no other gods before me"?
And if your going to stick to your statement of 60% is close enough, you should realize that in school, that's a D.
I said 'most' of them are accepted by modern society - regardless of religion. I listed 'most' that are accepted (60%). I did not say that they were illegal - but accepted.
Again, did you READ those commandments? We don't all agree to keep the sabbath holy, because it's just a day to most of us (keeping it holy means not doing physical labor on that day, read the bible). None of us agree that we shouldn't covet possessions or wives. None of us agree that there should be no other gods or idols. None of agree that god's name shouldn't be used in vain. The only ones the have some form of consensus is the commandment against theft, murder, and adultery. However that could even backfire, because most of us approve of war, many of us commit infidelity, and finally most of us have stolen.
So you're wrong and should just gracefully admit it.
Do you understand the word 'most'? I said nothing about idolatry, profanity, the sabbath - however, the items I listed do confine to the social mores of our (or at least, my) times.
Do you understand the word 'most'? I said nothing about idolatry, profanity, the sabbath - however, the items I listed do confine to the social mores of our (or at least, my) times.
Again, if you read those commandments, three or even four out of ten doesn't qualify as most.
The Decalogue is majority religious and as such doesn't share common values with most people. I have a question. If only three or four rules on a religious text are fairly well agreed with by a society, and those rules are not religiously inspired but instead are common across many cultures and belief systems and are essentially secular, rules of thumb, what is your attachment to your position? Sentimentality?
These are religious laws and so they are absolute, black and white.
Thou shalt not kill
About half of the country supported/supports the war in Iraq. A sizeable amount of Americans believe in the death penalty. The majority of Americans approve of violent video games and television which involve death.
So this isn't a more that we all share.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife
Maybe 80 years ago this was a common more, but now coveting your neighbour's wife is big business in the adult industry, in the media, on television, and so on.
Thou shalt not steal.
Remember, religious laws are black and white, all or nothing. Human laws are flexible and gray. That said, how many Americans do you know who NEVER have stolen anything once? How many do you know would disapprove stealing food to feed a family? How many steal office or work supplies?
Thou shalt not bear false witness about thy neighbor
Everybody lies. Most everybody approves of the so-called "white lie."
Most everybody gossips and discusses rumors.
Honor thy father and thy mother
In a small town this might be a universal more, but in city culture this is seen as old-fashioned and more importantly this rule in particular is part of a larger segment where disobedient children are commanded to be put to death.
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Do you really think this is a social more of American society in this day and age? The bible considers the first marriage you are in to be final. So anyone who has had more than one husband or wife, or has divorced and met new people, has committed adultery.
I count six. They are not laws - simply the social mores and values of our times. Granted, some may disagree with some of them.
This is all distracting from the major point however, because the other four commandments contain provisions that don't belong in a secular government funded institution. Anything biblical doesn't belong in a government-funded institution, any more than the government can sponsor the Koran, Bhagavad Gita, Buddhavacana, or Sutras.
Why should I be forced to pay to subsidize the teaching of a religion that isn't mine? I'm not talking about teaching those books as a part of a course on world religions and cultures, I'm talking about presenting them as fact.
Public schools are government run, in case you didn't know. My tax dollars go to them, so do Muslims' tax dollars, Atheists' tax dollars, Hindus' tax dollars and so on.
Displaying the ten commandments isn't in the public's best interests.
Islam or Muslim is probably the most violent religion there is.
The word Muslim it's self means to Submit.
And there religion is all about Converting or submitting people into their religion.
If you do neither you will be killed. The 'prophet' Mohammad himself participated in many be-headings himself to prove himself 'worthy' to receive redemption from 'Allah'.
Killing is a necessity in that religion if you want me to I will grab some verses that prove so.
Why shouldn't we spread Christianity in an already christian nation? Who the fuck is going to stop us?
Religious bigots like yourself hinder societal advancement. The Islamic faith is reputable and legitimate based off of peace and love for mankind. Sure perhaps some of their traditional practices are questionable, but what religion doesn't have questionable traditions?
And Governments shouldn't advocate any religion because it violates in the first amendment.
The Koran, 9:5 God instructs his Muslim followers to kill unbelievers, to capture them, to ambush them
The Koran, 8:12 God promises to "cast terror into the hearts of those who are bent on denying the truth; strike, then, their necks!"
The Koran, 8:60 "Strike terror into God's enemies, and your enemies"
The Koran, 2:191-192 Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
The Koran, 9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
So these really promote peace and love huh?
Also tell me why the word Islam means "To Submit"?
Those verses provide evidence that murder is a necessity to their religion.
The Muslims in america are "bad muslims" they're not following their religion completly. I think they are just 'sitting ontop of a fence' ready to drop down either way, depending if the Islamic terrorist do something huge.
I completely agree with your position, yet for other reasons. Primarily because of this: Moses charged the people of Israel to teach their own sons and daughters the words of the covenant. And at no time did Moses discharge the fathers and mothers from that responsibility. But, according to the priests, pastors and youth pastors of today, it is self-evident they believe it is now their charge to teach our sons and daughters of the words of the covenant, even when that means bringing the ‘word’ to school.
Oh, lest I forget, have we not heard the justification: …but, but, but it’s for the chiiildren…brother? (Thus saith the covetous seed of the serpent, “God hath not said you shall not let me teach your children.”) Pious perverts!!!
I better stop at that.
As for "don't covet thy neighbor's wife" and "don't commit adultry" and "Though shalt not kill"
That's a bit deep for little kids I think.
Perhaps those concepts are more complex than the experiences which youths are cognizant. However we, as a society, are rather sophisticated when it comes to our participation in those crimes.
Yes, two-year old children resist the thievery of their peers, and rightly so. Yet, because of the limitations of the experience of two-year olds, they are ignorant of how sophisticated men are when it comes to those sins. Consider the following brief examples:
By legal means, we authorize our politicians, lawyers, and armies to rob our neighbors.
Beyond the general idiocy of posting religious commandments in a public education faciity the moment you put something like "I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other gods before me" up in a public school you are creating an environment that is unquestionably hostile to any student that doesn't share that religion.
America has a thing called "separation of Church and State". The government is supposed to keep religion independent of governmental decisions, government programs, and just government in general. If anyone is afraid of the "indoctrination of our children" when they sing a song that mentions Barack Obama, they should also be afraid of indoctrination (in the more literal sense) if the Ten Commandments were displayed in schools.
Along the same reasoning, we should also have a ticker from the Vatican to each classroom to keep up-to-date on the decisions of the Pope.
The State should be separated from the church where the establishment in the wall of separation of church and state is maintained.
Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other. Two principles are implied, which are a secularist government and freedom of religion where it is exercised in the First Amendment Establishment of Religion Clause.
In displaying a faith’s text, it is effectively endorsing it. Not all people may believe in that one particular set of beliefs, so the government must be secular; however, government schools may teach religion but not preach it.
It is clear that displaying the Commandments is intended not merely to inform students of their existence and meaning, but rather to instruct them in and promote Christian belief.
Although the ten commandments are good things to live by, all people don't believe in Christianity. If the schools put them up then it will open themselves up for a lot of law suits. It's just safer to not put them up.
Well this should be obvious. It's how America works; we keep our religion apart from our government and vice versa. By displaying the Ten Commandments at a public institution you degrade this principle of our government.
Sure, you may like the Ten Commandments, but that doesn't mean everyone else will.
The only thing that could come out of this is people being upset over their presence. Therefore, let's just not have them in public schools. It's not life the Ten Commandments are the only place where we can see not to steal, kill, etc.
