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Absolutely it is a sign of the oppression of women. If they want to behave in a medieval way like this should have stayed in their home countries. Any women that claims to want to wear them has been brainwashed into believing their inferiority.
While in many countries it can indeed be a sign of oppression, in Western countries it is often something done voluntarily. By telling these women that they can not wear what they want, you are yourself attempting to oppress them. While I agree that voluntarily wearing it seems like a case of brainwashing, many, many things in society, particularly as they relate to religion, involve brainwashing, and it is wrong to single out one group for this sort of behavior, regardless of personal opinions.
But we can tell them what to do as these are our countries. They need to behave in ways that are not totally at odds with our societies. Also there are issues with crime and security in allowing people to hide their identities in public.
If they were born in said country, then it is theirs as well. If a society allows one to dress how they will, then it is not at odds with society. You are simply deciding what people can and can not wear, which is oppressive and borderline totalitarian.
As for the "issues with crime and security", do you have any statistics (at all) regarding crimes committed by women wearing said clothing?
Also statistics are irrelevant the fact is whether it has happened before or not the fact is if you are able to hide your identity commiting a crime is easier.
If they were born their, it is their home, and it is their country. France banning the burqa is an oppressive and totalitarian-esque action.
And statistics are entirely relevant, as if it has not happened, then it is not an issue. Coming up with a hypothetical that has never occurred serves no point.
If you are of Algerian blood, for example, but live in France then you're not French you're Algerian. If these people actually are French, not their original national origin then how come they still refer to themselves as being their originao nationality?
I daresay my country descending into a cesspit filled with veiled freaks does impact me but hey-ho.
Ethnically, yes, but ethnicity and nationality are not the same thing.
If these people actually are French, not their original national origin then how come they still refer to themselves as being their originao nationality?
They refer to it as their ethnicity, which, again, is not the same thing.
As for the crime, the fact that her name is plastered all over the article indicates that your fears aren't particularly founded, as it didn't work to hide her identity.
Nationality is little more than some writing on paper.
Not really, no. Nationality is what country you affiliate with, and many people take that very, very seriously.
What is in your blood, your culture and the way in which you live your life is what matters.
And we are back to you declaring your opinions to be the only valid ones. In many countries, "what's in your blood" doesn't matter and your patriotism does.
You cannot be Algerian (just an example) and French.
Actually, you can. One can be ethnically Algerian and a French citizen.
The idea that you can be two things simultaneously makes little sense.
No, it makes perfect sense, you have just decided to completely ignore the fact that many people find nationality to be important.
A French citizen is not the same as an actual French person. A citizen just whatever their daft government decides that it is. You do not understand the importance of blood as you are from an artificially created nationality which is just a random jumble of different ethnicities brought to an alien place through colonialism.
A French citizen is not the same as an actual French person
That sentence is complete nonsense. An ethnic French is not the same as a French citizen, but people have different concepts on what would therefore determine who is a "French person".
A citizen just whatever their daft government decides that it is.
An ethnicity is just whoever their daft parents decided to do.
You do not understand the importance of blood as you are from an artificially created nationality which is just a random jumble of different ethnicities brought to an alien place through colonialism.
No we cannot tell people to do anything we want just because they have moved from one country to another. How ridiculous. There are immigrants that contribute to our society infinitely more than you but yet you feel that you should have more rights because of being lucky and being born here? Get real. Society is a meritocracy. Those that create their own success have good lives and those that don't don't. You don't get free advantages over people that contribute more than you.
As for your other comment.. That is a separate issue. There is no law against covering your face in public. Are you suggesting there should be?
Foreigners come over here and take our jobs, our housing space and clog up our schools and the NHS. They do not contribute at all. Furthermore this is not about how much they contribute it is about wearing full veils being something that doesn't belong on our soil.
You are supporting the oppression of women and you should be ashamed of yourself. If supporting these bloody foreigners means dropping morals you're happy to do it.
Also there are many old folk who would agree with me and have been here for donkey's years. You have no love for this country so of course you would not be against its degeneration.
Also there are many old folk who would agree with me and have been here for donkey's years. You have no love for this country so of course you would not be against its degeneration.
There are also many asians that have been in this country a lot longer than both of us. My point was that you are silly trying to say you have more right to decide what is and is not British than anyone else. Is Islam British? Yes now it is.
There is much more of a cultural reason to wear them, than a religious imperative. In the cultures that these are worn, women are completely suppressed. No freedom, no education, no career choice, nothing but control. There is no place for such beliefs in the cultures that have come to understand basic human rights. Ban.
Where I live, I have met multiple women who choose to wear them without any influence from male figures in their lives. By banning them, you would be the one suppressing them, denying their freedom and trying to control them. Don't you find that hypocritical?
If they want freedom to live such a backwards existence then they should move back to the backwards places they came from. We need to take our countries back.
They are still second or third generation immigrants and still need to abide by our rules and if they don't like it they can bugger back off to the places their parents or grandparents came from.
It is being oppressive to an invasive alien culture an practice that is not native to our soil.
They are still second or third generation immigrants and still need to abide by our rules and if they don't like it they can bugger back off to the places their parents or grandparents came from.
But they are abiding by the laws. You are trying to instate a national dress code that is, at present, non-existent.
It is being oppressive to an invasive alien culture an practice that is not native to our soil.
No, it is not. It has absolutely no impact on you. You are being oppressive, they aren't. It is that simple.
It is not the law but if it were to be made the law then they should be expected to abide by it. Our country, our rules.
They are.being oppressive as they are oppressing women. I daresay my country descending into a cesspit filled with veiled freaks does impact me but hey-ho.
It is not the law but if it were to be made the law then they should be expected to abide by it. Our country, our rules.
The fact that it is not the law is the point. If any law was to be made the law, one should abide by it. That being said, it shouldn't be the law.
They are.being oppressive as they are oppressing women.
The people I was referring to (that you responded to) were women who voluntarily wear said pieces of clothing. You claimed those women were being oppressive to you.
I daresay my country descending into a cesspit filled with veiled freaks does impact me but hey-ho.
And there's more of that bigoted mindset we were talking about.
I doubt many women wear it without having being brainwashed. Just because a male figure in their families hasn't forced it upon them doesn't mean that they haven't been indoctrinated in some other way.
Why is that bigoted? Islamic veils are completely out of place in Britain and are not a sign of integration. If more Brits (and I'm sure many Americans) were honest with themselves and were not fearful of being branded as bigots then they would say the same. That is why 'Britain first' calls itself the voice of the silent majority.
I doubt many women wear it without having being brainwashed.
I have agreed to that, but there are plenty of things that people wouldn't do without being brainwashed. To deny one's autonomy based on that would be absurd.
Why is that bigoted? Islamic veils are completely out of place in Britain and are not a sign of integration.
" I daresay my country descending into a cesspit filled with veiled freaks does impact me but hey-ho." Is the comment that is bigoted. "cesspit filled with veild freaks" is quite obviously bigoted.
If more Brits (and I'm sure many Americans) were honest with themselves and were not fearful of being branded as bigots then they would say the same
"Everyone agrees with me, they are just too afraid to say it" is not only not an argument, it is an indication that you are lacking substance within your stance.
That is why 'Britain first' calls itself the voice of the silent majority.
A pathetic thing to call themselves, entirely lacking in legitimacy. Anyone could declare that their opinions are shared by the majority, but that people are too afraid to agree. That means absolutely nothing.
Why is it absurd? Why shouldn't people fight misogynistic indoctrination?
Well they are freaks. Covering your face is stupid for a number of reasons and if you do it willingly you are a freak. It is slightly disturbing. Misogyny is filthy. A country filled with strong misogyny is a cesspit. As is a Muslim country.
The point is the thoughts I have aren't bigoted they are natural. Expecting everyone to not feel discomfort towards the burqa or the niqab is idealism.
Why is it absurd? Why shouldn't people fight misogynistic indoctrination?
You aren't, you are targeting individuals. Taking away their autonomy because you believe they are incapable of deciding for themselves is exactly what the people you are decrying are doing.
Well they are freaks.
And I'm sure they think you are. That isn't constructive, it is bigoted.
Covering your face is stupid for a number of reasons and if you do it willingly you are a freak.
Again, not constructive in any way, shape, or form.
Misogyny is filthy.
So is bigotry. Fighting one "filth" with another solves nothing.
The point is the thoughts I have aren't bigoted they are natural
No, they are definitely bigoted.
Expecting everyone to not feel discomfort towards the burqa or the niqab is idealism.
It is also irrelevant. To outlaw something because you find it uncomfortable to see and unnatural is exactly why homosexuals have been persecuted. Now I'm not comparing Islam to homosexuality, there is no comparison there, just know that you are using the exact same justification.
Exactly, so why should I respect those who don't respect me? I am not a freak because I am existing in the natural state for mankind which is living without fear of an imaginary being. They aren't so they are freaks.
Again, not constructive in any way, shape, or form.
It is true. Wearing a veil robs yourself of identity and individuality. They all look alike in their veils. They barely even seem like people just a mass that merges into one. How can you even tell people apart if they're all wearing veils? It is stupid. If you choose this life then you are stupid.
So is bigotry. Fighting one "filth" with another solves nothing.
Male chauvinism is worse than being against a demonic religion. You can either be against male chauvinism or you can tolerate Islam. Not both.
No, they are definitely bigoted.
They are natural as they are what almost everyone else thinks.
To outlaw something because you find it uncomfortable to see and unnatural is exactly why homosexuals have been persecuted.
Homosexuality is present in 1,500 species and religion (+ covering your face) is present in only one. Religion is a mental illness. Homosexuals have always been in Britain. Muslims have been here five minutes. We belong here and they do not. You can be patriotic and gay. Also supporting both LGBT rights and Muslims is stupid. When I think of the Muslims at my school I can't think of a single one who hasn't condemned me for being gay.
They're a double edged insult to Arab womanhood. The backward thinking places the onus on the woman to cover herself in case men ogle their naughty bits, and by not requiring male Arabs to do the same it's implying that woman don't, or shouldn't find men sexually attractive. These garments which belong to the primitive thinking of the dark ages should most definitely be banned. They should be incinerated in an enormous ceremonial bonfire in Mecca.
I don't think it has to be banned. Being in Western countries already gives them enough freedom to take off their burqa and niqab but many women choose not to all because that's just how they want it not because there's a sense of oppression. These women see the world with a different perspective unlike all the other women who have grown up in such liberated countries. I think how it should be is not to ban the burqa and the niqab but to open the choice of simply allowing women to not wear the burqa and niqab if they want to. If they want to follow the tradition that they have always followed, I don't see any point to intervene. It's not like niqab and burqa is being forced upon as soon as a Muslim woman with a niqab/burqa steps foot on a Western country.
Oppression is an action. What you are referring to is social compliance. They come from a culture different than yours so you believe them to be brainwashed/uncivilized. This is a fairly common ethnocentric view.