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Should the government be regulating baby names?
JUST WHEN I THOUGHT THE GOVERNMENT COULDN'T GET ANY MORE RIDICOLUS, THEY INCLUDE THE REGULATION OF BABY NAMES.
NOT THE US, Baby NAMES
YES
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NO
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There's a port... on a western bay And it serves.. a hundred ships a day Lonely sailors... pass the time away And talk about their homes And there's a girl... in this harbour town And she works... laying whiskey down They say "Brandy, fetch another round" She serves them whiskey and wine The sailors say "Brandy, you're a fine girl" "What a good wife you would be" "Yeah your eyes could steal a sailor from the sea" Side: NO
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You British kids amuse me. Their name is just that, THEIR name, not yours. It is their choice not theirs, regardless of your idea that only what you deem to be morally fit should be a legal name. Calling me a Nazi for allowing people to choose their kid's name even if it is Adolf, is like calling me WestBoro Baptist Church member for allowing people to choose their kid's name even if it is Hesus. PS: The Nazis regulated baby names and made it illegal to give your kids the first name of any well known Ally or Jewish leader. So it all actuality, you are more likely to be the one with a swastika as an avatar. Side: NO
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But we have to understand just what is more important here; the traumatizing bullying the child will face from being 'different', and the distress of the individuals offended over the name, (old survivors of the holocaust being reminded of their distress at the mention of Adolf Hitler.) People have the RIGHT to not feel traumatized, bullied and offended, which I believe, is MORE valuable. Side: YES
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But we have to understand just what is more important here; the traumatizing bullying the child will face from being 'different', and the distress of the individuals offended over the name, (old survivors of the holocaust being reminded of their distress at the mention of Adolf Hitler.) Whoever is offended does not matter, freedom of expression isn't just so we can talk about the weather and wear a crazy hat, its to ensure we have personal liberty. Offense =/= grounds to take away someone's right. People have the RIGHT to not feel traumatized, bullied and offended, which I believe, is MORE valuable. People have the RIGHT to freedom of expression, I know over in Europe the idea is "you may express yourself as long as we say it is legal" but most rational people have this idea of "you may express yourself, its your right." Side: NO
Whoever is offended does not matter, freedom of expression isn't just so we can talk about the weather and wear a crazy hat, its to ensure we have personal liberty. Offense =/= grounds to take away someone's right. WHY THE FUCK DON'T THEY MATTER? They have the right not to get offended and the child has the right not to get bullied afterwards. DO YOU LIKE WATCHING A CHILD GET BEATEN? And naming a kid a stupid name doesn't define everything in existence that is about expression. It is just a minor, shitty little thing which you have some how managed to place above the massive deal of bullying on the child and shit! People have the RIGHT to freedom of expression, I know over in Europe the idea is "you may express yourself as long as we say it is legal" but most rational people have this idea of "you may express yourself, its your right." I'm not sure what you're talking about, but naming a kid a weird name will TRAUMATIZE HIM AND BE TARGETED TO BULLYING. How the hell is that freedom of expression when the name given ISN'T even the choice of the child anyway, which means that nothing can stop that child from having a fucked up name. Except for the government, who can save his life from torment. Side: YES
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WHY THE FUCK DON'T THEY MATTER? They have the right not to get offended and the child has the right not to get bullied afterwords No one has the right not to get offended! Your view that people can only name their kids what you deem to be morally fit offends me and you don't see me making it illegal to have a different opinion. DO YOU LIKE WATCHING A CHILD GET BEATEN? And naming a kid a stupid name doesn't define everything in existence that is about expression. It is just a minor, shitty little thing which you have some how managed to place above the massive deal of bullying on the child and shit! I'm not pro-beating children I'm anti-authoritarians telling people what they can and can't name their kids. I'm not sure what you're talking about, but naming a kid a weird name will TRAUMATIZE HIM AND BE TARGETED TO BULLYING. No, it doesn't. Naming a kid an un-common name doesn't traumatize them and it doesn't make them anymore of a target for bullying than a normal kid, all that will change is the insults, instead of "your fat", "your have glasses" or "your a nerd" its "you have a name I don't like." You typing in all caps and exaggerating the effects of naming your kid something other than George or Frank is not grounds to take away others rights. How the hell is that freedom of expression when the name given ISN'T even the choice of the child anyway, which means that nothing can stop that child from having a fucked up name. Teens can legally change their names... Except for the government, who can save his life from torment. People generally aren't tormented over their names, chill out, I'm sorry someone called you "Luke the cook" or "Pat the fat" in Kindergarten, but please, try and be somewhat reasonable. Side: NO
No one has the right not to get offended! Your view that people can only name their kids what you deem to be morally fit offends me and you don't see me making it illegal to have a different opinion So that makes it okay for people to get offended? Who gives a shit if you feel your expressionism get offended? It's not even real offense. Is the death of 6 million jews not enough for your expressionism? I'm not pro-beating children I'm anti-authoritarians telling people what they can and can't name their kids. Which one do you favor more? Apparently, IT'S THE SECOND ONE. Which contradicts your non-pro-beating/bullying on children, because it is inevitable that children would be bullied for all the shit you can make up with a creative name, like Starshine or Jam jam. No, it doesn't. Naming a kid an un-common name doesn't traumatize them and it doesn't make them anymore of a target for bullying than a normal kid, all that will change is the insults, instead of "your fat", "your have glasses" or "your a nerd" its "you have a name I don't like." How ignorant and painfully assumptuous of a reply. "Naming my son Celestia will certainly not be thought as weird to others." What the fuck. You typing in all caps and exaggerating the effects of naming your kid something other than George or Frank is not grounds to take away others rights. How the fuck is saying that your children will be hurt by bullying an exaggeration? Bullying hurts a child; did you know that? Humans judge other people, and children do the same but more openly by name calling. Actually, having such an unusual name will make it easy for them to name call. Teens can legally change their names... ....................................... And seriously, why put all this crap on a teenager when you can simply give them a normal name. No paperwork for namechanging, no bullying. Too much to ask for? People generally aren't tormented over their names, chill out, I'm sorry someone called you "Luke the cook" or "Pat the fat" in Kindergarten, but please, try and be somewhat reasonable. THOSE ARE NORMAL NAMES AS EXAMPLES. And I don't mean that the name will torment them itself, the bullying will TORMENT. It will cause complications that could of been avoided. There is no 'reasonable' boundary if you think we should not have regulations. Without regulations, they could call their children Bumfuck or Toelick, or HitlerDidNothingWrong. Side: YES
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...and only from them ...everything else was banned and punished by death, heretical ideas as round Earth how many people died for that blasphemy?? Franklin Roosevelt put Japanese citizens in concentration camps, is it illegal to name your kid after him? Andrew Jackson slaughter thousands of Native Americas, is it illegal to name your kid after him? It is sad that 6 million Jews were killed by authoritarians, but making it illegal to name your kid what you want is rather authoritarian as well. Offense =/= grounds to take away rights. Thats the problem with you Democrats, anytime someone gets offended you have to take someone's rights away. Which one do you favor more? Apparently, IT'S THE SECOND ONE. Which contradicts your non-pro-beating/bullying on children, because it is inevitable that children would be bullied for all the shit you can make up with a creative name, like Starshine or Jam jam. So you'll ban not just offensive names, but odd or uncommon names to? You know, lets just have you make a list of 10 ten names, an if the name isn't on the list your child can't be named it. How ignorant and painfully assumptions of a reply. "Naming my son Celestia will certainly not be thought as weird to others." What the fuck. I know people with names such as Zion, Felix, Keetly ect. none of them are tormented. How the fuck is saying that your children will be hurt by bullying an exaggeration? Bullying hurts a child; did you know that? Its an exaggeration because you assume that if a child has a slightly odd name they will suffer a life of torment. Humans judge other people, and children do the same but more openly by name calling. Actually, having such an unusual name will make it easy for them to name call. Children are usually bullied for being fat, having glasses, having an accent, having a strange interest, being short or for no other reason that some bully being bored. So what is it going to be? Are you going to regulate weight, glasses, accents and interests or accept the fact that most bullies will pick on a kid for no other reason then they are angry or bored. since when were they born teens? And within the period of time when they are in school before becoming a teenager, is when they are most prone to being bullied. Actually, false, high school is where children are most prone to being bullied. And seriously, why put all this crap on a teenager when you can simply give them a normal name. No paperwork for namechanging, no bullying. Too much to ask for? Its to much to ask for when a parent says "lets name our child [name you don't like here]" and then you kick in the door and yell "stop in the name of the law, that name is illegal!" THOSE ARE NORMAL NAMES AS EXAMPLES. And I don't mean that the name will torment them itself, the bullying will TORMENT. It will cause complications that could of been avoided. About 80% or 90% (can't remember the exact percentage) bullied during their lives, having them get a "normal" (matter of opinion) name would not stop this. There is no 'reasonable' boundary if you think we should not have regulations. Not everything has to be regulated, seriously, get out of these people's lives. Last time I checked only unloving parents name their kids stuff like "Bumfuck" and due to human nature making almost all humans have an unconditional love for their offspring, there is a rather small chance of this happening. Side: NO
Franklin Roosevelt put Japanese citizens in concentration camps, is it illegal to name your kid after him? Many people are unaware of that. And anyway, he was an American president, much more closer to home. And it's not like he's the equivalent of Hitler? Andrew Jackson slaughter thousands of Native Americas, is it illegal to name your kid after him? Again, he is not as known nor has been as significant as Hitler. AND the reputation Hitler has, who in the world wouldn't bully a child with that name? Offense =/= grounds to take away rights. Thats the problem with you Democrats, anytime someone gets offended you have to take someone's rights away. Oh so they must feel so depressed after they couldn't make their child have a weird name, which would result in the feeling different, and ridiculed in his school life after it, longing to be like everyone else with a normal name. So you'll ban not just offensive names, but odd or uncommon names to? You know, lets just have you make a list of 10 ten names, an if the name isn't on the list your child can't be named it. Names that are too stupid that will cause bullying to the child, and make the child feel different in a bad way should not be encouraged. Do you give a shit about how the child would feel about being different? What do you think all of the other immatured children will think when they find someone called "Cash Babeh" or "Pumpkins". I know people with names such as Zion, Felix, Keetly ect. none of them are tormented. THOSE ARE NOT THE ONES I AM TALKING ABOUT IF YOU HAVE SEEN MY EXAMPLES. These names are alright, and I'd consider them normal. Its an exaggeration because you assume that if a child has a slightly odd name they will suffer a life of torment. But we are not talking about slightly odd names. Without regulations, anyone can make completely odd names. The sky is the limit. They will have traumatic experiences in their youth which will effect them further in life. Children are usually bullied for being fat, having glasses, having an accent, having a strange interest, being short or for no other reason that some bully being bored. So what is it going to be? Are you going to regulate weight, glasses, accents and interests or accept the fact that most bullies will pick on a kid for no other reason then they are angry or bored. THIS IS SO STUPID AND IRRELEVANT. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS JUSTIFICATION? So just because there are other factors for people to be bullied makes it okay for people to have another reason more to bully them? Actually, false, high school is where children are most prone to being bullied. Research states that bullying occurs most often between ages 11-13. Its to much to ask for when a parent says "lets name our child [name you don't like here]" and then you kick in the door and yell "stop in the name of the law, that name is illegal!" Only when the name is too far fetched and inappropriate that regulations should apply. There would be no door kicking... exaggeration much? I am talking about names like Babyfoot, Bum-bum, Littleshit, or Orangepeel. What is so depressing about preventing these names? About 80% or 90% (can't remember the exact percentage) bullied during their lives, having them get a "normal" (matter of opinion) name would not stop this. Stupid logic again! IT WOULD PREVENT IT. I hate it when people ignore the word 'prevent'. Not everything has to be regulated, seriously, get out of these people's lives. Last time I checked only unloving parents name their kids stuff like "Bumfuck" There are families out there who are odd enough to find that an acceptable name. Others would treat naming their child as a joke. and due to human nature making almost all humans have an unconditional love for their offspring, there is a rather small chance of this happening. Sometimes it's bad if they love them too much that they would name them "Little munchkin" or "BubzCutie". HNNNNNGGGG XFRHTHSGHSEHSH =/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/= =/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/= Side: YES
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Many people are unaware of that. And anyway, he was an American president, much more closer to home. And it's not like he's the equivalent of Hitler? Andrew Jackson slaughter thousands of Native Americas, is it illegal to name your kid after him? Again, he is not as known nor has been as significant as Hitler. It would still be offensive to anyone who knows anything about history. What about Joseph? You can still name your kid Joseph. AND the reputation Hitler has, who in the world wouldn't bully a child with that name? People with enough brain power to not think that the kid named Adolf or Hitler is the real guy. Oh so they must feel so depressed after they couldn't make their child have a weird name, which would result in the feeling different, and ridiculed in his school life after it, longing to be like everyone else with a normal name. Who decides what is weird? Exactly, to them a name may seem perfectly normal but when you hear it you would likely throw a hissy fit. Again, get your nose out of their damn business. Names that are too stupid that will cause bullying to the child, and make the child feel different in a bad way should not be encouraged. Do you give a shit about how the child would feel about being different? I don't encourage them and I don't discourage them either, its not my choice and its not yours either. I do care about kids who are bullied, I was bullied simply for being alive, it wouldn't have mattered if I had "Assfuck" as my name, I would have still been bullied. THOSE ARE NOT THE ONES I AM TALKING ABOUT IF YOU HAVE SEEN MY EXAMPLES. These names are alright, and I'd consider them normal. Most people would consider them to be strange. But we are not talking about slightly odd names. Without regulations, anyone can make completely odd names. The sky is the limit. God forbid someone names their kid something unusual. Again, what is unusual and is normal is opinion, so if someone wants to name their kid something weird that is their choice. THIS IS SO STUPID AND IRRELEVANT. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS JUSTIFICATION? Just trying to awaken you to the fact that most kids aren't like "whats your name? ha! now I'm gonna bully you" it starts out like this "that kid, I don't like him/her, I'm gonna bully him/her" So just because there are other factors for people to be bullied makes it okay for people to have another reason more to bully them? There is almost never an actual reason to bully another kid. Most of them time it is random, stop intruding in other people's lives. Only when the name is too far fetched and inappropriate that regulations should apply. And who determines that? You? The doctor? The government? It would all come down to opinion. Only when the name is too far fetched and inappropriate that regulations should apply. Its not depressing, it is just that some people (like myself) prefer to let people keep their rights instead of letting people like you take them away. "Those willing to give up liberty for security deserve neither and will lose both" - Benjamin Franklin Stupid logic again! IT WOULD PREVENT IT. I hate it when people ignore the word 'prevent'. I hate it when people ignore that it won't prevent anything and it will just leave the door open for the government to take away other rights. Its happened before, up until the the 1900's stayed out of foreign wars, then Wilson dragged us into WWI and then it opened up the door to all of our interventionist wars. Sometimes it's bad if they love them too much that they would name them "Little munchkin" or "BubzCutie". HNNNNNGGGG XFRHTHSGHSEHSH =/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/= =/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/==/= The last part, its just oozing with intellect. Side: NO
It would still be offensive to anyone who knows anything about history. What about Joseph? You can still name your kid Joseph. So you're expecting everyone to be historians now?! People with enough brain power to not think that the kid named Adolf or Hitler is the real guy. But people will have a strong opinion over that name. A strong opinion that child would not want in his life. Children will notice it. They will talk about it. Do you want that complication in your life? Who decides what is weird? Exactly, to them a name may seem perfectly normal but when you hear it you would likely throw a hissy fit. Again, get your nose out of their damn business. Fuck you. I am here to protect a child's dignity. Without regulations, they could go infinitely far. You know for shit certain that I know that Zion sounds normal. Are you an idiot to know no difference between naming a child Xxxxxgng and Zion? I don't encourage them and I don't discourage them either, its not my choice and its not yours either. I do care about kids who are bullied, I was bullied simply for being alive, But you are supporting a reason for kids to bully. it wouldn't have mattered if I had "Assfuck" as my name, I would have still been bullied. Again, GUN LOGIC. Assfuck would of made it WORSE. Do you know what the word "worse" means? It means something more bad than the bad before. Wouldn't that be bad? God forbid someone names their kid something unusual. Again, what is unusual and is normal is opinion, so if someone wants to name their kid something weird that is their choice. But there is 'normal' in common opinion. In common opinion Xxxxxgng would be considered an odd name. You do know that it is possible to tell if a name is odd. I am not talking about names like Esmerelda, I am talking about names like Beef-sister. The names that require a thin line of regulation. Everything needs a limit. If people knew they could name their child any combination of vowels and consonants possible, they could name their children full lines of poetry, or the heading of their favorite porno. Before you said this; "Most people would consider them to be strange." Well guess what, those names are actually normal. Normal as fuck. Actually, not many would find them strange or offensive enough to have them illegal. Basically no one would. God forbid someone names their kid something unusual. Again, what is unusual and is normal is opinion, so if someone wants to name their kid something weird that is their choice. You can't assume that everyone on Earth is normal/mentally well. (Spoiler alert: God doesn't exist) Just trying to awaken you to the fact that most kids aren't like "whats your name? ha! now I'm gonna bully you" it starts out like this "that kid, I don't like him/her, I'm gonna bully him/her" You are thinking of it close-mindedly in 2D. Are you aware of that? Are you aware of the fact that this isn't an efficient way to think? Did you know that having a fucked up name doesn't help? Do you know that things don't help out sometimes, and even make it worse? Again, do you know what the word "worse" means? People can decide to bully someone on multiple reasons. Having a weird name will make it worse, it will give them another reason to verbally abuse them. And don't underestimate the power of verbal abuse; people have killed themselves over words on the internet. There is almost never an actual reason to bully another kid. Most of them time it is random, A bully is usually a troubled individual that picks on others to make them feel stronger and significant. stop intruding in other people's lives. What the fuck? And who determines that? You? The doctor? The government? It would all come down to opinion. It would all come down to whether more than four X's in a name is too much. Its not depressing, it is just that some people (like myself) prefer to let people keep their rights instead of letting people like you take them away. Bitch please, that's racist. Although I'm sorry you feel sad that we don't have the right to be racist. It's just not fair. "Those willing to give up liberty for security deserve neither and will lose both" - Benjamin Franklin Does it make you feel sad that people can't walk in the public naked? Sometimes we need limitations, for the sake of our child's dignity. I hate it when people ignore that it won't prevent anything and it will just leave the door open for the government to take away other rights. Soo dumb. Read the above reply, I don't want to repeat myself. Btw, having a weird name would make it worse. The last part, its just oozing with intellect. It hasn't got anything to do with intellect. I'm just blowing off some steam on the subject on how it annoys me that you use this =/= little nigga. Side: YES
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So you're expecting everyone to be historians now?! Only historians know about Joseph Stalin? I was unaware of this... But people will have a strong opinion over that name. A strong opinion that child would not want in his life. It is still no justification for telling parents what they can and can't name their kids. In that case it would fall to opinion and whatever a small group of people deem to be fit. Fuck you. I am here to protect a child's dignity. Without regulations, they could go infinitely far. Uh oh, the little authoritarian is getting mad. It is still no justification for regulating names. That ability to go over what you might deem to be "far" =/= grounds to take away the right for children to name their kids what they wish to name their kids. You know for shit certain that I know that Zion sounds normal. Are you an idiot to know no difference between naming a child Xxxxxgng and Zion? 1. Zion is not a normal name. 2. Xxxxxgng is unrealistic, we are talking about actual names, not your World of Warcraft user name. 3. Again, what is normal, offensive or uncommon is opinion. But you are supporting a reason for kids to bully. Supporting? I'm not yelling "don't support the troops, support parents who name their kids Assfuck!" from the roof tops. I'm just telling people like you that you have no authority tell parents what they can and can't name their children, if you wanted to do that I suggest you get a time machine and go back to Nazi Germany where you could have banned every name you wanted to. Again, GUN LOGIC. Assfuck would of made it WORSE. Do you know what the word "worse" means? It means something more bad than the bad before. Wouldn't that be bad? 1. Assfuck is an example, not an actual name that would likely be used. 2. Do you know what the phrase "mind your own business means" do you? It means stay out of other people's lives and stop trying to take control. 3. Again, opinion. But there is 'normal' in common opinion. So majorities should decide everything? That in cases of how you can and can not express yourself will be determined by the common opinion. The common opinion would likely deem that Keetly or Zion would be non-normal names. Just because a fraction of the population says "that name offends me" or "that name is weird" it is not ground to take legal against naming your kids that. Well guess what, those names are actually normal. Normal as fuck. Actually, not many would find them strange or offensive enough to have them illegal. Basically no one would. Most people likely would. Again, common opinion should have no say in naming children. It was also common opinion that naming your kid Franklin, Winston, Joseph or and other Ally leader was bad... but then again, you don't want to know that. You can't assume that everyone on Earth is normal/mentally well. (Spoiler alert: God doesn't exist) you can't assume that this authoritarian idea of telling people what they can and can't name their kids will eventually be abused, as if it being used in the first place isn't already abuse. (Spoiler alert: "god forbid" is an expression, not a way of proclaiming your faith) You are thinking of it close-mindedly in 2D. Are you aware of that? Are you aware of the fact that this isn't an efficient way to think? Did you know that having a fucked up name doesn't help? Do you know that things don't help out sometimes, and even make it worse? Did you know that there are a lot of things that would make it worse? Did you know that instead of acting like a Nazi and telling people what they can and can't name their children because of bullying, you should try and take a stand against bullying in schools instead? People can decide to bully someone on multiple reasons. Having a weird name will make it worse, it will give them another reason to verbally abuse them. Allow me to shed some light upon the whole "bullying thing. You act as if the board of bullies gets together which traits, names and looks are and aren't fair game to pick on kids over. This is generally how it works: 1. The bully finds a child 2. If the child is weaker than the bully, the bully proceeds to step 3. If the child is stronger than the bully, the bully either repeats step 1 or gets another bully to help out. 3. The bully(s) began harassing the kid and THEN pick out reason to continue. "stop intruding in other people's lives." What the fuck? Now I don't expect you to really understand this, but parents naming their child is a personal thing that is up to them. Stop intruding in their lives and telling them what they can and can't name their child. And don't underestimate the power of verbal abuse; people have killed themselves over words on the internet. You can verbally abuse anyone, a 4'3'' guy could verbally abuse a 6'8'' guy. It would all come down to whether more than four X's in a name is too much. I expected a somewhat smarter answer than that... Bitch please, that's racist. Although I'm sorry you feel sad that we don't have the right to be racist. It's just not fair. How is having the right to be racist, well, racist? Being a racist is a thought, making thoughts illegal is just wrong. You can express your thoughts until you become violent. First banning names, now banning thoughts? You seem to be a big fan of fascism. It hasn't got anything to do with intellect. I'm just blowing off some steam on the subject on how it annoys me that you use this =/= little nigga. Blowing off steam because someone called you names? Aww poor baby, lets just ban all names and just have everyone numbered instead, then no more bullying for you... I'll make sure you're given the number 69. Side: NO
Only historians know about Joseph Stalin? I was unaware of this... Stupid shit head. If someone was named "stalin" it would be seen as weird. If someone was named "hitler" the same would be thought of. Naming someone "Joseph"? Everyone is called that. Not many with a first name called "Stalin", nor "Hitler". It is still no justification for telling parents what they can and can't name their kids. In that case it would fall to opinion and whatever a small group of people deem to be fit. No. Understand that the high chance of a child losing dignity/getting bullied is far more important than your shitty fucking namings. Uh oh, the little authoritarian is getting mad. Egotistical slut. It is still no justification for regulating names. That ability to go over what you might deem to be "far" =/= grounds to take away the right for children to name their kids what they wish to name their kids. Again. Do you want to risk a child's dignity? 1. Zion is not a normal name. It sounds cool and respectable. Pinkypeaches does not. 2. Xxxxxgng is unrealistic, we are talking about actual names, not your World of Warcraft user name. There are hardcore gaming families that would actually do that. I am not talking about actual fucking names, why would you say that Xxxxxgng is not an actual name when, without regulations, the sky is the limit? 3. Again, what is normal, offensive or uncommon is opinion. Something that would make the common crowd react/majority disagree, or find it indignifying to the child. Supporting? I'm not yelling "don't support the troops, support parents who name their kids Assfuck! from the roof tops. Supporting as meant as a little word that you are infact supporting children to be named fuck all, with the high chance of them being bullied. I'm just telling people like you An annoying categorization which is a factor to bullying. "People like you"? Fuck that. Don't categorize me. that you have no authority tell parents what they can and can't name their children, if you wanted to do that I suggest you get a time machine and go back to Nazi Germany where you could have banned every name you wanted to. You have no authority to have a child lose their dignity. Apparently you don't value that as much anyway. 1. Assfuck is an example, not an actual name that would likely be used. Assfuck is a possible name for a mentally deranged family. 2. Do you know what the phrase "mind your own business means" do you? It means stay out of other people's lives and stop trying to take control. Who are these people? What are you talking about? 3. Again, opinion. So a bunch of bullies are picking on bill for being nerdy. In another dimension, bill's parents decided to name him Assfuck instead. The bullies in this dimension do not care or judge is name, and it does not change anything. Definitely opinion. So majorities should decide everything? Why? Do you just want a few people to decide everything for the majority of individuals to be screwed over? What would you prefer to be screwed over? Some people or more people? That in cases of how you can and can not express yourself will be determined by the common opinion. The common opinion would likely deem that Keetly or Zion would be non-normal names. These are tangible names. Do you think someone would be indignified or bullied for this name? If not, great, keep it. Just because a fraction of the population says "that name offends me" or "that name is weird" it is not ground to take legal against naming your kids that. But for that kid to have people think of him that way is just evil for his parents. That kid would feel sad that people have a negative opinion about his name, he wouldn't feel happy. Do you want more sad children? Most people likely would. Again, common opinion should have no say in naming children. It was also common opinion that naming your kid Franklin, Winston, Joseph or and other Ally leader was bad... but then again, you don't want to know that. Bad examples. Those people were more renown by their surnames, and naming your children after their well-known surnames is what is relevant to make people react and have a negative opinion on their name. you can't assume that this authoritarian idea of telling people what they can and can't name their kids will eventually be abused, as if it being used in the first place isn't already abuse. You need to understand that sometimes people need to be told what to do for their safety. In this case, the safety of the child. (Spoiler alert: "god forbid" is an expression, not a way of proclaiming your faith) That was such a spoiler. I already know about the expression, but I wanted to joke about it to piss you off if you were religious. Did you know that there are a lot of things that would make it worse? Stupid logic again! Just because there is other shit out there doesn't change shit. Did you know that instead of acting like a Nazi and telling people what they can and can't name their children because of bullying, you should try and take a stand against bullying in schools instead? And it is considered a Nazi act to make walking outside naked illegal? You are so dumb; bullying will ALWAYS happen in the world. To stop bullying, you would have to completely change the nature of a human being. Humans like to categorize things, and be biased to the rest. Giving less of a means to categorize someone as weird will lessen bullying; ergo this is standing against bullying right now. This is generally how it works: 1. The bully finds a child 2. If the child is weaker than the bully, the bully proceeds to step 3. If the child is stronger than the bully, the bully either repeats step 1 or gets another bully to help out. 3. The bully(s) began harassing the kid and THEN pick out reason to continue. It doesn't ONLY work like that. You are generalizing things again. Billy will get bullied, but now his name is Assfuck, which means that he will be picked on by being nerdy AND having a weird name. Did you see that "AND"? And if Billy was a perfectly normal kid with no reason to be bullied on, but then was named Assfuck, he would have a reason to be bullied on, thus, the more children are bullied. Now I don't expect you to really understand this, but parents naming their child is a personal thing that is up to them. Stop intruding in their lives and telling them what they can and can't name their child. Oh my that was so hard to understand. I am not intruding on their lives, you are intruding on their child's dignity like a predator. You can verbally abuse anyone, a 4'3'' guy could verbally abuse a 6'8'' guy. THAT SOUNDS SO STUPID. So you ignore everything and even the chance of a 6'8" verbally abusing a 4'3" (Which usually happens, since the taller person is less scared to talk smack to those smaller/weaker than them.) And again, people have killed themselves OVER WORDS ON THE INTERNET. Has that somehow left your mind? I expected a somewhat smarter answer than that... I DON'T HAVE TIME TO MAP OUT THE WHOLE FUCKING THING FOR YOU. In the end, it all comes down to whether the name would indignify the child. How is having the right to be racist, well, racist? Being a racist is a thought, making thoughts illegal is just wrong. You can express your thoughts until you become violent. Again, people kill themselves over verbal abuse. The death of thousands of children through verbal abuse is enough to show that. I am not talking about banning thoughts, bimbo slut, although I don't know where the fuck you came up with that stupid waste of text. There is a difference between thinking about something, and talking/taking action. Speaking racist things is a no-no, thinking racist things is not encouraged, but allowed. First banning names, now banning thoughts? You seem to be a big fan of fascism. What a fucked up conclusion that came out of no where. UNCALLED FOR. Blowing off steam because someone called you names? Aww poor baby, Now that's just too far. Basically we've been joking, but now you're actually going to bully me? That's sad. lets just ban all names and just have everyone numbered instead, then no more bullying for you... I'll make sure you're given the number 69. That's so dumb. Never said anything about banning all names, I just said that we shouldn't let children be indignified by a name that indignified them. Egotistic FUCK. That's just sick. You actually want children to be indignified now? Talk about exaggeration. I am the side that actually cares for, and protects the children and their dignity. You seem to value going against that more. The names that I am referring to, are purely the ones that would indignify the child. That's all. Those are the only names I am talking about, because I want them to be protected from bullying. Side: YES
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Again, people kill themselves over verbal abuse. The death of thousands of children through verbal abuse is enough to show that. I am not talking about banning thoughts, bimbo slut, although I don't know where the fuck you came up with that stupid waste of text. There is a difference between thinking about something, and talking/taking action. Speaking racist things is a no-no, thinking racist things is not encouraged, but allowed. Speaking and taking action are two separate things. If you use your freedom of speech to say something racist and that offends someone, to bad for them, freedom of speech applies to everyone and every topic, we don't have to to talk about the weather, we have it to talk about controversial things. Now if you happen to make a THREAT, then that is different. Saying "I don't like Asians!" is one thing, saying "I'm going to kill Asians!" is another. You have no authority to have a child lose their dignity. Apparently you don't value that as much anyway. I'm not making that kid lose his dignity, I'm saying you and/or the government have no right to tell people what they can and can't name their kids. Who are these people? What are you talking about? You seem to be confused. I am telling you to stay out of their lives because naming a child is a big part of a parents life, so, stay out of their lives! Why? Do you just want a few people to decide everything for the majority of individuals to be screwed over? What would you prefer to be screwed over? Some people or more people? Neither. I believe in a system that resembles the first amendment. Where there shall be NO laws passed taking away freedom of speech. That way its not the majority deciding or a few individuals deciding, no one decides and everyone's right to freedom of speech is protected. Now that's just too far. Basically we've been joking, but now you're actually going to bully me? That's sad. I'm not bullying you, I'm joking around. Anyway, I've gotten bored of writing walls of text to you and you sending a wall back to me, especially that it is on a subject that is really starting to bore me. So I'll stop going on, maybe I'll catch you in a more interesting debate. Side: NO
Speaking and taking action are two separate things. I just said that. If you use your freedom of speech to say something racist and that offends someone, to bad for them, freedom of speech applies to everyone and every topic, But we shouldn't be encouraging it. Do you want nothing but trolls everywhere? we don't have to to talk about the weather, we have it to talk about controversial things. Now if you happen to make a THREAT, then that is different. Saying "I don't like Asians!" is one thing, saying "I'm going to kill Asians!" is another. But a threat is an attack on someone's personal safety, which is linked to their personal ego. A racial insult is an attack on their pride of race, which is also linked to their personal ego. Their personal ego is who you are. If someone said that your race was shit and a pestilence, that would be offensive. We shouldn't be offending people as much as we shouldn't be scaring children for life for seeing naked people on the street. I'm not making that kid lose his dignity, I'm saying you and/or the government have no right to tell people what they can and can't name their kids. But in doing that, you are giving a lot more children indigity. You seem to be confused. I am telling you to stay out of their lives because naming a child is a big part of a parents life, so, stay out of their lives! I'm saving their child's dignity and respect as a human being. Fuck their parents if they want to name their child Yoloswag, it's not on. And I know some teenage parents actually wanting to name their child similar things. Sometimes we need to put regulations on things for safety, in this case, to protect the safety of the child in their school years and older years where they will be judged for everything about them. It'd be quite hard to get in an interview with the name Yoloswag. Neither. I believe in a system that resembles the first amendment. Where there shall be NO laws passed taking away freedom of speech. That way its not the majority deciding or a few individuals deciding, no one decides and everyone's right to freedom of speech is protected. Sometimes we need laws against public nudity, yet you may argue that it is taking away our freedom of expression. Again, we have these laws for psychological protection. With the way you say it; do you actually support the Westboro Baptist Church for voicing their hate? Would removing them from the funerals they picket be a violation to their right of speech? I'm not bullying you, I'm joking around. Anyway, I've gotten bored of writing walls of text to you and you sending a wall back to me, especially that it is on a subject that is really starting to bore me. So I'll stop going on, maybe I'll catch you in a more interesting debate. It's a mutual curse. I often loath finding walls of texts in my argument activity daily. I'll see you in some other debate I guess. Side: YES
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With the way you say it; do you actually support the Westboro Baptist Church for voicing their hate? Would removing them from the funerals they picket be a violation to their right of speech? I don't support them, however, I support freedom of speech. All people are entitle to it and they are no different because they share offensive views. And no removing them from funerals they picket is a violation of their right to assemble. Wait wasn't this debate supposed to end? Well, here we go again... Side: NO
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Again, someone speech offending someone of being deemed morally wrong is not grounds to take their right to express themselves away. But we need to see what is more valuable first. Don't hide the words 'offensive, hate-mongering' behind the word 'rights'. The families that are hated on, despite them grieving over the loss of a close relative/soldier don't deserve the psychological anguish. The people spilling out the hate, don't deserve to spread anger and hate, and make the grieving families overwrought. Is it too much to ask to relieve people of such distress? Or do you just sympathize the people who must feel very depressed for not being able to to spill their hate, and spread anger on everyone? Because they must feel worse than the grieving families, because one of their 'rights' have been taken away from them. But seriously, think about the meaning of 'rights' and why they existed in the first place; to ensure order and general happiness. We'd do anything for the greater good, and happiness of everyone, but sometimes, certain rights can cause more harm than they're worth. We should have a flexible system that supports the best for everyone; not mindlessly following fallible rules with many cracks in between. Enough of this mindless conformity; we need to really look at what really helps us. Side: YES
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But we need to see what is more valuable first. Limited or restricted speech is not freedom of speech. People's freedom to voice their opinions trumps other people's feelings. Don't hide the words 'offensive, hate-mongering' behind the word 'rights'. Don't hide the word "authoritarian" behind the word "offensive" The families that are hated on, despite them grieving over the loss of a close relative/soldier don't deserve the psychological anguish. Although the families are grieving it is still not grounds to take away anyone's freedom of speech. Again, limited speech is not free speech. Is it too much to ask to relieve people of such distress? That is not to much to ask, it is to much to ask when you make it illegal for them to voice their opinions and take away their freedom of speech. Or do you just sympathize the people who must feel very depressed for not being able to to spill their hate, and spread anger on everyone? I sympathize with the people who are being hated, however, saying "please refrain from using your speech in a way we don't like, or we'll have to call the cops" Because they must feel worse than the grieving families, because one of their 'rights' have been taken away from them. Freedom of speech is a right, regardless of how bad these families feel, taking someones right to express themselves is not an option... well, for any free society that is. But seriously, think about the meaning of 'rights' and why they existed in the first place; to ensure order and general happiness. ABSOLUTELY NOT! They were NEVER intended to insure order, do you know much orderly things would be if you had no rights? The government can take away your right to argue with it, suddenly, no political chaos and the politicians may do as they please without criticism. General happiness was also never intended, we had rights so that certain things could not be taken away, ex: Freedom of Speech, where no matter how much the majority wants it, no matter mow much the minority wants it and no matter how much the government wants it, you can't take away someone's right to free speech. That is not general happiness, we don't have freedom of speech to we can tell funny jokes that would other wise be illegal, we have them so we can debate and argue about the best way to run things, in case you haven't noticed, arguing is not generally a Happy thing. We should have a flexible system that supports the best for everyone; not mindlessly following fallible rules with many cracks in between. Democracy is a flexible system, this is why we have rights, so that if the population voted to install a king or legalize slavery, they couldn't. because even though the majority (who is usually very uninformed) voted or decided to make these changes, they can't won't be put into place. Although many people blindly follow these rules, I don't, I questioned them and support them now. If I didn't question them I would have said "well fuck you, I'm right because the rules say so" and blocked you. Enough of this mindless conformity; we need to really look at what really helps us. Taking away free speech so that people have to conform to a social norm of "not hating" is conformity. Side: NO
Limited or restricted speech is not freedom of speech. People's freedom to voice their opinions trumps other people's feelings. So you'd prefer people to get bullied and eventually kill themselves more often? Are you actually supporting bullying/verbal abuse, also in schools? People kill themselves over words on the internet, but this is too far. Don't hide the word "authoritarian" behind the word "offensive" You're sickening for supporting bullying. Although the families are grieving it is still not grounds to take away anyone's freedom of speech. Again, limited speech is not free speech. Again, what is more important in this scenario? How the hate-mongerers feel about their rights, or the depressed/suicidal families feel? That is not to much to ask, it is to much to ask when you make it illegal for them to voice their opinions and take away their freedom of speech. "Take away their freedom of speech"? Is that all it means to you? They can say whatever the hell they want but they do not have the right to spread hate. I sympathize with the people who are being hated, however, saying "please refrain from using your speech in a way we don't like, or we'll have to call the cops" Again, if there was a troubled child who was getting repeatedly getting verbally abused by bullies, would you have the teacher sued for stopping the bullies? Freedom of speech is a right, regardless of how bad these families feel, taking someones right to express themselves is not an option... well, for any free society that is. But i never said that people are not aloud to speak at all, I said that, the right should be flexible depending of whatever helps the most in a situation. ABSOLUTELY NOT! They were NEVER intended to insure order, do you know much orderly things would be if you had no rights? The government can take away your right to argue with it, suddenly, no political chaos and the politicians may do as they please without criticism. General happiness was also never intended, we had rights so that certain things could not be taken away, ex: Freedom of Speech, where no matter how much the majority wants it, no matter mow much the minority wants it and no matter how much the government wants it, you can't take away someone's right to free speech. That is not general happiness, we don't have freedom of speech to we can tell funny jokes that would other wise be illegal, we have them so we can debate and argue about the best way to run things, in case you haven't noticed, arguing is not generally a Happy thing. Think about it? They did not make rights for the soul purpose of screwing us over didn't they. It's to ensure people have an equal chance, therefore making mostly everyone happy, not sad? If they were made for the soul purpose of not aiding the progress of society, and bringing chaos, then they should be discarded, should they not? Democracy is a flexible system, this is why we have rights, so that if the population voted to install a king or legalize slavery, they couldn't. because even though the majority (who is usually very uninformed) voted or decided to make these changes, they can't won't be put into place. Although many people blindly follow these rules, I don't, I questioned them and support them now. If I didn't question them I would have said "well fuck you, I'm right because the rules say so" and blocked you. But you're treating them as something to not be questioned. Why haven't you given any exceptions to the WBC since their right to discrimination is doing more damage, and generally making people think the world is more of a shitty place than it is? If rights cause more damage than good in some cases, why not let there be some flexibility instead of mindlessly following the lines? These rules were made by fallible human beings, and they have so much cracks in between them. To ameliorate this, we need flexibility. Taking away free speech so that people have to conform to a social norm of "not hating" is conformity. But we aren't taking it away from everyone in the whole universe, aren't we? Didn't I just say that we need to look at what really helps us, instead of mindlessly following rules? Don't you support the best possible choices for the greater good? Side: YES
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Didn't I just say that we need to look at what really helps us, instead of mindlessly following rules? Right here, the whole problem with your argument. Its not a rule, its an idea that says "don't make a rule pertaining to speech" setting rules over speech. Allowing for police to use force to punish those who say something that the sub-moron majority or the corrupt politicians in a far distant capital decided is "bad" is being blind. Opening the door for power hungry monsters to abuse this power to ban other speech is being blind. If you don't think this has/will happen, go look up what happened in the past when speech that was considered offensive to the "majority view" (uninformed idiot view) Side: NO
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They call it verbal abuse for a reason. Don't ever think that the people who committed suicide over verbal abuse never existed. Yeah I do, however, I'm not going to put a gun to someone's head and say "say something we don't like and you die" because someone over reacted in a case of bullying. You still didn't respond to my argument. Side: NO
You didn't respond to my other argument first. Right here, the whole problem with your argument. Its not a rule, its an idea that says "don't make a rule pertaining to speech" setting rules over speech. Allowing for police to use force to punish those who say something that the sub-moron majority or the corrupt politicians in a far distant capital decided is "bad" is being blind. Opening the door for power hungry monsters to abuse this power to ban other speech is being blind. If you don't think this has/will happen, go look up what happened in the past when speech that was considered offensive to the "majority view" (uninformed idiot view) You have shifted away from the examples I have provided before. You know, I know, we all know that stopping bullies from verbally abusing a child is the right thing to do. Would you ever protest against the rules in schools that prevent bullying? The well-being of those being abused verbally matters. Letting people enact nothing but hate doesn't matter. Fuck destructive expression, bless productive and positive expression. I'm not defining destructive expression as simply disagreeing with something; I am applying it to those who show clear irrational hate, such as the WBD. Don't say that this means everyone does not have rights, I will repeat again; I am only applying this to people like the WBC, or KKK, who bear an irrational hate that is plaguing our society. It is a hate without any positive outcomes from protecting. We are sane human beings, we can tell that the WBC or KKK are hate-mongering nutters. The WBD are not secretly correct, nor a misunderstood minority. Their hateful beliefs do not define our existence, because we know the world is more than the cage of their ideologies. Hate expressed from them is impeding the growth of society, and therefore must be reasoned with. Side: YES
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You have shifted away from the examples I have provided before. You know, I know, we all know that stopping bullies from verbally abusing a child is the right thing to do. Would you ever protest against the rules in schools that prevent bullying? Do you understand the difference between a Federal Law and a school rule? There is a very large difference between a teacher telling kids not to be mean and the Government telling you that if you say something that they deem unfit they may take legal action against you. It is a school rule not a government law, the school can't take legal action or prosecute you in anyway. When you go to a school they have you sign a code of conduct form that says you agree to follow their rules why you are on their property. There is a world of difference between this and congress giving the government power to regulate and restrict speech. The well-being of those being abused verbally matters. Letting people enact nothing but hate doesn't matter. Freedom of speech matters. Fuck destructive expression, bless productive and positive expression. I'm not defining destructive expression as simply disagreeing with something; I am applying it to those who show clear irrational hate, such as the WBD. Don't say that this means everyone does not have rights, I will repeat again; I am only applying this to people like the WBC, or KKK, who bear an irrational hate that is plaguing our society. It is simply disagreeing though. You simply disagree with their feelings and emotions and you don't like them expressing their views. No matter which way you spin it, it comes down to disagreement. We are sane human beings, we can tell that the WBC or KKK are hate-mongering nutters. Because we disagree with them. You can respond to them if you like, when the KKK says "all niggers are bad!" you have the right to say "go back to your trailer, white trash!" You have rights, they have rights, they don't deserve to have their rights taken away because you disagree with their hate. The WBD are not secretly correct, nor a misunderstood minority. Their hateful beliefs do not define our existence, because we know the world is more than the cage of their ideologies. I think people understand that they don't define most people... Hate expressed from them is impeding the growth of society, and therefore must be reasoned with. How, because a homosexual gets offended when some fat red neck holds up a "god-hates-fags" sign? That's not impeding the growth of society at all, its just offensive. Restricted speech, now that impedes the growth of a society. Side: NO
Do you understand the difference between a Federal Law and a school rule? There is a very large difference between a teacher telling kids not to be mean and the Government telling you that if you say something that they deem unfit they may take legal action against you. It is a school rule not a government law, the school can't take legal action or prosecute you in anyway. When you go to a school they have you sign a code of conduct form that says you agree to follow their rules why you are on their property. There is a world of difference between this and congress giving the government power to regulate and restrict speech. There is still more danger included in verbal abuse. I haven't spoken about taking harsh legal action against offenders, I just think they should take measures to prevent it. Freedom of speech matters. Why? Why does negative, unproductive, untruthful, delusional speech matter? It is simply disagreeing though. You simply disagree with their feelings and emotions and you don't like them expressing their views. No matter which way you spin it, it comes down to disagreement. But it's a logical disagreement to their deluded beliefs. Because we disagree with them. You can respond to them if you like, when the KKK says "all niggers are bad!" you have the right to say "go back to your trailer, white trash!" You have rights, they have rights, they don't deserve to have their rights taken away because you disagree with their hate. They deserve to have their rights taken away if it means people will get negatively affected, influencing suicidal acts. A person dead means all their rights that they can possibly express is taken from them from death. I think people understand that they don't define most people... I'm saying their beliefs don't bear any viability. Their world does not work in the real world. How, because a homosexual gets offended when some fat red neck holds up a "god-hates-fags" sign? That's not impeding the growth of society at all, its just offensive. Restricted speech, now that impedes the growth of a society. It generally makes people pissed off about them. Restricted speech does impede society, but not their speech which everyone dislikes. Do you think letting them spread hate helps us/ makes us happy/ improves our society? Side: YES
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The families that are hated on, despite them grieving over the loss of a close relative/soldier don't deserve the psychological anguish. Of course they don't deserve that anguish; they didn't deserve to have a member of their family taken away from them, either. But the WBC has the same freedom of speech as any other non-violent hate-group. Polite speech does not need protection, and if you start policing offensive speech, you will soon find yourself censored as well. Side: NO
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But what would be worse? Violating the principals of free speech and free assembly. Those families aren't being oppressed so much as they are being harassed. It's disgusting, but it's American. They already have restrictions; jump to the bottom of page 31. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/ Side: NO
But it is only 'violating' the negative, unproductive, and hate spreading speech that is impeding the progression of society. I only chose the funerals of soldiers as an example; there are many other examples that don't have restrictions. Such as spreading delusion, verbal abuse, threats. If stopping children from verbally abusing a child is the right thing to do, why is it not considered right to stop verbal abuse upon others? Side: YES
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But it is only 'violating' the negative, unproductive, and hate spreading speech that is impeding the progression of society. Polite speech need not be protected. "If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable." Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397, 414 (1989). "[It is] often true that one man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric. Indeed, we think it is largely because governmental officials cannot make principled distinctions in this area that the Constitution leaves matters of taste and style so largely to the individual." Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15, 25 (1971). If stopping children from verbally abusing a child is the right thing to do, why is it not considered right to stop verbal abuse upon others? It is a different matter altogether where children are involved. I truly find the WBC's involvement of very young children despicable. However, by and large, these protesters are adults. They are endowed with all the rights delineated within the Constitution. Once you silence a group, no matter how unsavory their speech, you open the flood gates of censorship in the public forum. They have not engaged in violence, nor do they advocate or incite violence. If that were the case, subduing their speech might be advisable. Side: NO
Polite speech need not be protected. "If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable." Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397, 414 (1989). "[It is] often true that one man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric. Indeed, we think it is largely because governmental officials cannot make principled distinctions in this area that the Constitution leaves matters of taste and style so largely to the individual." Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15, 25 (1971). You are using the words of other people to justify the potential damage caused by threats, absolute racism, and the spreading of delusion, of which is not 'disagreeable' but illogical. It is a different matter altogether where children are involved. Children aren't located completely to the other end, they a human beings, just like adults, and as human beings we can take offense to certain things and feel ostracized and mistreated. Some adults even have the mind of a 'child'. I truly find the WBC's involvement of very young children despicable. However, by and large, these protesters are adults. They are endowed with all the rights delineated within the Constitution. The Constitution is a fallible man-made idea with cracks in between. Once you silence a group, no matter how unsavory their speech, you open the flood gates of censorship in the public forum. Does this have to happen all the time when you aim to be helping the victims of their delusion? Disagreeing with their delusion doesn't always come down to opinion; what they believe is completely illogical, and the actions they take to disservice society are not justified and must not spread around the world. They have not engaged in violence, nor do they advocate or incite violence. If that were the case, subduing their speech might be advisable. They have threatened an eternity of suffering on a great deal of the public, and have bereaved many grieving families, likely promoting suicide. People witnessing their actions around the world may become hateful. A whole world of people who have reason to be hateful over something more would have negative effects around the world. It would just make everything worse. Anonymous has taken acts against the WBC, silencing their website and such. No 'floodgates' have opened for society from that. Side: YES
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I hope you realize that I was referring to the over all idea, not single instances. Look at the American Constitution for example: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." Now look at The French Declaration of The Rights of Man and of The Citizen: "No one is to be disquieted because of his opinion, even religions, provided their manifestation does not disturb the public order established by law." The difference is the Americans basically say: You the have freedom to express your opinions and religion and there shall be no law made against this. Where as the French basically say: You the have freedom to express your opinions and religion as long as the government doesn't say you can't. Side: NO
Whereas in practice the opposite seems to be true if in America you truly have freedom one of those being freedom of religion why does it take a Muslim or someone who doesn't look "normal" twice as long to get through airport security even if they have done nothing suspicous? America may have the right to peaceful assembly etc but that only works when the government uphold it, read the OCE report about use of excessive force, kettling, arrests of journalist, breaking up of protest camps etc, the constituition may say you have the right but the government and police are making sure you don't get it. Wave the constitution about all you like but unless everyone in America receives the rights and freedoms promised by it its worthless. Side: YES
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Whereas in practice the opposite seems to be true if in America you truly have freedom one of those being freedom of religion why does it take a Muslim or someone who doesn't look "normal" twice as long to get through airport security even if they have done nothing suspicous? They don't. We all have to go through a ton of airport security now and I have been stopped and searched a couple times, I may be a large man, but I'm not wearing "I <3 9/11" shirt or anything. We all get stopped. This is why I am against the TSA. America may have the right to peaceful assembly etc but that only works when the government uphold it, read the OCE report about use of excessive force, kettling, arrests of journalist, breaking up of protest camps etc, I am not supporting this, I believe that many politicians trample the constitution every day. Side: NO
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Whereas in practice the opposite seems to be true if in America you truly have freedom one of those being freedom of religion why does it take a Muslim or someone who doesn't look "normal" twice as long to get through airport security even if they have done nothing suspicous? They don't. We all have to go through a ton of airport security now and I have been stopped and searched a couple times, I may be a large man, but I'm not wearing "I <3 9/11" shirt or anything. We all get stopped. This is why I am against the TSA. America may have the right to peaceful assembly etc but that only works when the government uphold it, read the OCE report about use of excessive force, kettling, arrests of journalist, breaking up of protest camps etc, I am not supporting this, I believe that many politicians trample the constitution every day. Side: NO
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"People have the RIGHT to not feel traumatized, bullied and offended, " No one has a right not to be offended. You only have a right not to be assaulted, or stolen from. In a free society, with free speech, you are almost guaranteed to be offended by something someone says. Side: NO
No one has a right not to be offended. You only have a right not to be assaulted, or stolen from. In a free society, with free speech, you are almost guaranteed to be offended by something someone says. It still does not make it okay. Bullying from having an odd name implies possible assault, as well. Side: YES
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Bullying from having an odd name implies possible assault, as well. How so? Especially if the intent of the odd name was not malicious? Let's say that the parent is a fan of "Howdy Doody" and names his daughter "Doody". Is he bullying? What does that say about people whose last name is "Doody"? http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0233145/ IMHO, the term "bullying" is very nebulous. When I was in school, I was physically assaulted, repeatedly, over a period of years. That is "bullying". I do not understand how someone can consider "name calling" (as opposed to threatening physical violence) as bullying. Especially in the case of "bullying" on social media. Block them, or report them for violation of terms of use. If you can't remove yourself from the area where you are being called names, then whoever is preventing you from that is assaulting you. Side: NO
How so? Especially if the intent of the odd name was not malicious? Let's say that the parent is a fan of "Howdy Doody" and names his daughter "Doody". Is he bullying? Do you not know how bullying works? People at first tease him verbally, then he gains a reputation among everyone. What that child may do in defense may make it worse. People would end up seeing him through this reputation, and start throwing rocks, perhaps even pushing them about. Name calling can be hurtful, and makes them feel hated by everyone. Side: YES
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Do you not know how bullying works? Yes. I was a victim. People at first tease him verbally, then he gains a reputation among everyone...Name calling can be hurtful, and makes them feel hated by everyone. so? If the verbal teasing is opinion, then there is no assault or theft. Another's opinion of you is none of your business, nor are they obligated to show you kindness (or even civility). You get over it. If it is "fact" that may be proven false, then it is libel, which is the equivalent of "damaging the value" of that person's reputation. This is actionable under property rights. What that child may do in defense may make it worse. Such as? Is a person justified in physically assaulting another, or damaging property merely because he was offended, or has his feelings hurt? Is any of this justification for the government to restrict the parent's right to name their child? Side: NO
so? If the verbal teasing is opinion, then there is no assault or theft. It leaves them prone to assault. Don't say "so" to verbal abuse, people have killed themselves over words on the internet. Such as? Is a person justified in physically assaulting another, or damaging property merely because he was offended, or has his feelings hurt? Is any of this justification for the government to restrict the parent's right to name their child? No, I mean to say that he may punch the bully or talk back to him, which would make the bully become violent. Side: YES
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It leaves them prone to assault. How? Because others see weakness and will attack? If another attacks, I believe that a person has a right to defend himself, using as much force as necessary. Take this case: If more people stood up and defended themselves like this, there would be fewer bullies. Don't say "so" to verbal abuse, people have killed themselves over words on the internet. I am well aware that people have killed themselves because someone hurt their feelings. This was foolish. I was ridiculed for being smart, socially awkward and a "nerd" all through school. You know what I did? I got over it. I pitied the people who were stupid enough to denigrate achievement. In my opinion, the bully is not "assaulting" anyone by calling them names. The state is assaulting the child by not allowing him the liberty to remove himself from an institution/situation where another is causing him to feel uncomfortable by calling him names. Side: NO
How? Because others see weakness and will attack? If another attacks, I believe that a person has a right to defend himself, using as much force as necessary. No, giving them a label lowers down their dignity as a human. In illegal drug testing facilities in China, they labelled their patients/victims as "logs" so as to not feel guilty about treating them inhumanely. This same affect would happen when the child becomes labelled whatever. I am well aware that people have killed themselves because someone hurt their feelings. This was foolish. I was ridiculed for being smart, socially awkward and a "nerd" all through school. You know what I did? I got over it. I pitied the people who were stupid enough to denigrate achievement. Come to understand that everyone is not you. People react to bullying differently to others. You came to 'get over it' because you aren't one of those people who took their own lives. n my opinion, the bully is not "assaulting" anyone by calling them names. The state is assaulting the child by not allowing him the liberty to remove himself from an institution/situation where another is causing him to feel uncomfortable by calling him names. Is the suicide of countless children not enough? Side: YES
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"No, giving them a label lowers down their dignity as a human...This same affect would happen when the child becomes labelled whatever." So does calling someone a racial epithet, but calling someone a racial epithet is not "assaulting" someone, nor is it valid justification for assaulting someone. I presume the government also prevented the "logs" from leaving. Unjustly imprisoning someone is assaulting them. Come to understand that everyone is not you. People react to bullying differently to others. Agreed. What are you advocating? Is the suicide of countless children not enough? This is an appeal to emotion, not logic. What are you advocating? I'm advocating an end to mandatory attendance at public schools, to allow people who do not wish to be there, to leave. Side: NO
So does calling someone a racial epithet, but calling someone a racial epithet is not "assaulting" someone, nor is it valid justification for assaulting someone. I don't care if it's not assaulting them, it's damaging them to an extent, which makes them prone to further abuse and suicide. I presume the government also prevented the "logs" from leaving. Unjustly imprisoning someone is assaulting them. The real assault was when they tested poisons on them and let many die. Agreed. What are you advocating? You can't use your 'getting over it' to refute others who couldn't, and committed suicide. This is an appeal to emotion, not logic. What are you advocating? I'm advocating an end to mandatory attendance at public schools, to allow people who do not wish to be there, to leave. It is logic, when clearly verbal abuse has affected the lives, and has taken the lives of many. Giving the child the choice to leave school at any given time would affect their education, and it would not solve the conflict between the child and bully. Instead, action should be taken against bullying, which is what people are 'trying' to do right now. It's not worth changing this debate about how to take action in preventing bullying. Side: YES
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I don't care if it's not assaulting them, it's damaging them to an extent, which makes them prone to further abuse and suicide. Our "feelings" on the matter are irrelevant. It is not assault (unless it is a direct threat of assault) and should not be actionable as such (but in many cases, is). The real assault was when they tested poisons on them and let many die. "They", as representatives of government? You can't use your 'getting over it' to refute others who couldn't, and committed suicide. I'm not refuting the fact that people committed suicide. I'm refuting the relevance of the fact that people committed suicide. It is logic, when clearly verbal abuse has affected the lives, and has taken the lives of many. No. It is emotion, but I will address this argument. Calling someone a name is not the same as physically assaulting someone. A suicide is not a murder. How you react to a situation is your choice. If you were to call bob a poopyhead, and he got mad and slit some random person's throat, did you (or your verbal "abuse") kill that person? No, Bob did. If he got mad and committed suicide, did you kill Bob? No, he killed himself. "Affecting the life" of someone is not the same thing as committing a criminal act against that person. If I own a store, and I raise the price of someone's favorite comfort food, to a level where they can no longer afford it, I have negatively affected them. If they decide that life is not worth living, because they can't afford cheezy-poofs, I am not responsible. On bullying, what action would you take against verbal, non-threat, "bullying"? Side: NO
Our "feelings" on the matter are irrelevant. It is not assault (unless it is a direct threat of assault) and should not be actionable as such (but in many cases, is). Dead children aren't 'feelings'. "They", as representatives of government? Why should it matter? These were secret experiments years ago, but yes, from the government. I'm not refuting the fact that people committed suicide. I'm refuting the relevance of the fact that people committed suicide. But it is relevant. You are saying that verbal abuse is not an assault, when thousands die from it. What does that say? No. It is emotion, but I will address this argument. Calling someone a name is not the same as physically assaulting someone. A suicide is not a murder. Again, you say it's not assault even though thousands die from it. Actually, let's drop the word 'assault'; it's clearer than day that verbal bullying is a bad thing that has taken lives and should be stopped. The word "assault" basically bears the relative concept of something that is bad. Don't you agree? How you react to a situation is your choice. If you were to call bob a poopyhead, and he got mad and slit some random person's throat, did you (or your verbal "abuse") kill that person? No, Bob did. If he got mad and committed suicide, did you kill Bob? No, he killed himself. But what caused it? "Affecting the life" of someone is not the same thing as committing a criminal act against that person. If I own a store, and I raise the price of someone's favorite comfort food, to a level where they can no longer afford it, I have negatively affected them. If they decide that life is not worth living, because they can't afford cheezy-poofs, I am not responsible. It doesn't have to be a criminal act to be devastatingly bad. On bullying, what action would you take against verbal, non-threat, "bullying"? It's irrelevant and boring to discuss about, but children must be aware of the effects of bullying, through class discussions and stuff. Name calling is basically half the definition of bullying. How is it non-threat when people commit suicide from the powerful psychological anguish? Side: YES
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Why should it matter? These were secret experiments years ago, but yes, from the government. Because the government was assaulting these people, by detaining them and using their bodies to their own ends. Calling them "logs" was not "bullying" them. You are pointing out the psychological effects (on an individual) of namecalling a perceived enemy, not the effects of that namecalling on the one called a name. I'm sure that being called a "log" did not cause the victims of medical slavery to feel bad about themselves. It was just a psychological "salve" for the agents of the oppressors. ..when thousands die from it.. No one has died from verbal "bullying". They died from the various lethal methods they used to end their own lives. But what caused it? Bob's inability to cope with life. It doesn't have to be a criminal act to be devastatingly bad. But did I "bully" or "cause the death of" the person involved, by raising prices? What about cases where a couple breaks up? If the "powerful psychological anguish" of the breakup, is so great to one, is the other half of the couple guilty of bullying? How is it non-threat when people commit suicide from the powerful psychological anguish? "Threat" must be the promise (implicit or explicit) of direct physical harm. Let's take the case of the nutjobs that kill abortionists. The fact that unborn babies are killed by the millions per year causes "powerful psychological anguish" to this person. He snaps, and kills a local doctor. Now, was it a murder? One person killed another. Or was it a suicide? The Dr. caused psychological anguish to another who acted to end the life of the Dr., thus the Dr. caused his own death. On "bullying": I'm for all private schools, with codes of conduct, which allow for "bullies" (verbal or physical) to be thrown out. Side: NO
Because the government was assaulting these people, by detaining them and using their bodies to their own ends. Calling them "logs" was not "bullying" them. You are pointing out the psychological effects (on an individual) of namecalling a perceived enemy, not the effects of that namecalling on the one called a name. Ugh, do I have to repeat myself again? They called them Logs to justify their mistreatment on them. They label them, which makes the labelled individual seem indignified. People will see that person as a label and find it okay to treat them as such. I'm sure that being called a "log" did not cause the victims of medical slavery to feel bad about themselves. It was just a psychological "salve" for the agents of the oppressors. Again, I brought in the example for "Log" not as something to make them feel bad. It is an example for a label which makes people think it justifies their mistreatment on them. No one has died from verbal "bullying". They died from the various lethal methods they used to end their own lives. So. Stupid. You need to think why they resorted to these lethal methods in the first place. The way you are thinking is just playing dumb, and is not helping anyone. Are you saying it is perfectly okay to drive someone to suicide and not be the one to blame, because the rope is to blame for hanging them? Stop. This. Now. Bob's inability to cope with life. What if I told you that with verbal abuse out of the picture, none of the bad things would of happened; and that if you took verbal abuse out of the picture from the thousands of children who had killed themselves over it, they would still be alive today. Great! Let's take verbal abuse out of the picture for more troubled people, and we will see that they will live, because clearly, verbal abuse is doing something very very bad which means that it is a bad thing. Do you know what bad things are? I am sick of your fowl logic. Good bye. Side: YES
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Didn't read my argument: What if I told you that with verbal abuse out of the picture, none of the bad things would of happened; and that if you took verbal abuse out of the picture from the thousands of children who had killed themselves over it, they would still be alive today. Great! Let's take verbal abuse out of the picture for more troubled people, and we will see that they will live, because clearly, verbal abuse is doing something very very bad which means that it is a bad thing. Side: YES
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Very important to point out that people do not have the right to not feel offended. I can say 'Adolf Hitler had the right idea, too bad he couldn't take some blacks out too', (whether I believe it or not is irrelevant) and no ones rights have been violated. I can say any hateful things I want as long as I'm not inciting violence then it doesn't matter. If people raised their children in a way that would discourage bullying behavior then there wouldn't be an issue. The most important thing is to control the people that are doing the bullying, not the people that would get bullied. This is the same as making women wear only certain clothes to reduce the likely hood of them being raped. Focus on real issues. Side: NO
Very important to point out that people do not have the right to not feel offended. I can say 'Adolf Hitler had the right idea, too bad he couldn't take some blacks out too', (whether I believe it or not is irrelevant) and no ones rights have been violated. I can say any hateful things I want as long as I'm not inciting violence then it doesn't matter. If people raised their children in a way that would discourage bullying behavior then there wouldn't be an issue. The most important thing is to control the people that are doing the bullying, not the people that would get bullied. This is the same as making women wear only certain clothes to reduce the likely hood of them being raped. Focus on real issues. But children with weird names have a high risk of being bullied. It usually starts off verbally, but it is still bad for them. Thousands of children kill themselves just for words on the internet. So children should not be given names that indignify them. Side: YES
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Well, approved names already exist in Sweden among others. First, unloving parents are far inbetween even low income families. Second, naming a child Stupid would be extremely embarrassing among family and friends, not to mention family and friends could get it changed in the interest of the child. Side: NO
It does not matter how rare or embarrassing for the parent it is. Neither was part of my question: What if a unloving parent names their child "Stupid" and the child suffers terribly because of the name? ..not to mention family and friends could get it changed. How do they do this without help from the government? Side: YES
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Actually, it did answer the question. Unloving parents don't really exist hence far inbetween. The child will not suffer since names can be changed. They don't need the help of government, parents don't own their children, they are guardians, so family, friends and even community can change the name through court by the interest of the child. Hence, courts settle disputes. This devil's advocate is so ridiculous, I would love to see even one child's name even close to that. Side: NO
Actually, it did answer the question. Unloving parents don't really exist hence far inbetween. The child will not suffer since names can be changed. They don't need the help of government, parents don't own their children, they are guardians, so family, friends and even community can change the name through court by the interest of the child. Hence, courts settle disputes. So your OK with a "ruling body" regulating baby names as long as it's not called the "government"? Side: YES
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Of course, there is ruling body in all civilized societies. The court is merely ruling on a dispute between free individuals whereas government arbitrary rules on free individuals. I think it was implied that the judicial branch of government would actually be making the decision, not a random government employee. Maybe I misunderstood? Side: YES
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Arbitrary government action comes at the regulation of approved baby names list. Also, I was referring to libertarian court system. It appears you got off the topic. Lets see if I can refocus this: Should the US government (specifically the judicial branch) regulate baby names if unloving parents name their child "Stupid" and the child suffers terribly because of the name? Side: YES
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I think this branch has a misunderstanding, because of the ambiguous word "regulate". It may seem to mean regulation on the front end (approved list) or regulation on the back end (only when harm has been proven). I weigh in on the back end, if and only if significant harm has been proven and if the child wants the name changed. Side: NO
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One day a man walked into court. The judge pulled up his case and said. "Mr Balls, it says here that you want to change your last name. "Balls" is not an unusual name, why do you want to change it?" .Man replied "it is embarrassing." .Judge shrugs and says, "seems fine to me, but it's your name. For the record, please provide the court with your first name." .Man replies "Harry." . Some parents. . . . . can be cruel. But government shouldn't have the power to regulated baby names. Side: NO
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It's a matter of taste. Some people like their eccentric names and others want to stick with names like "Bob" and "Joe... (Cavalry)." So the government shouldn't be regulating baby names any more than they should be regulating the decor in your living room to ensure it remains tasteful. A. Because the government has shown repeatedly it doesn't know what good taste is and B. because taste is subjective, anyways. Some children suffer when their parents name them "Wednesday," but others come to hate the average, normal names they were given like "Chris" and change it to something more interesting as soon as they can. My point is regulating names does nothing to ensure that kids won't be ridiculed for or dislike their name; it can happen even when there are only normal names to choose from. So let the parents choose and when the kid becomes an adult they can decide for themselves if they want to keep the name or not. Side: NO
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