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Debate Info

53
50
Yes No
Debate Score:103
Arguments:54
Total Votes:124
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (26)
 
 No (28)

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jessald(1915) pic



Should we get rid of Minimum Wage laws?

Yes

Side Score: 53
VS.

No

Side Score: 50
8 points

Minimum wage laws don't make sense in the new globalized era. If companies can't find cheap labor here at home, they'll find it overseas. By getting rid of minimum wage laws we could allow companies to hire more people thus reducing unemployment and improving our economy.

Side: yes
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
4 points

u must be high because that idea is half baked.

Do you know what they pay overseas workers? Nothing. But relative to the economies of the country those people live in, it's tollerable.

If we paid the workers here the same wages, even accounting for taxes and shipping, they would still be suffering. Minimum wage keeps the workers above the poverty line.

So if we worked for third world wages, we'd allow ourselves to become a third world country.

Side: No
jessald(1915) Disputed
4 points

No, companies wouldn't pay third world wages. The reason third worlders don't get paid more is because they have very few educational opportunities. Thus there is a very large supply of unskilled labor which leads to a proportionally low demand by companies. We in developed countries don't have that problem because we have the option to do skilled labor, thereby shrinking the supply of unskilled labor.

People should get paid according to the amount a value they have added. Low skill jobs don't add much value and should be paid as such. Minimum wage is basically just a twisted form of welfare. If we want to address income inequality, we should do it through progressive taxation and straightforward welfare programs, not by distorting the labor market.

Look, here's an example: Say I can print a bunch of newspapers for $5 in total costs. If I can get somebody to deliver them to people's houses, I can get $10 in revenue. It will take 1 hour to deliver them. I can't make a profit unless I pay somebody less than $5 to deliver them. So with current minimum wage laws, I can't make a profit selling my newspapers, and that delivery job won't get created.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wage_labour.svg

Side: yes

You are extremely correct. Asshole companies would simply take advantage of lower class citizens.

Side: No
3 points

I sort of agree with you. I think the main problem with minimum wage is that it is constantly being raised. Hell, minimum wage went up 3 times just before the Recession.

But, I still think it wouldn't be right if there was no standard at all. Odds are, some people will get paid practically nothing. Who knows, but a reasonable minimum wage doesn't hurt. The main problem, as stated, is the constant rise of it.

Side: yes
ledhead818(637) Disputed
3 points

So you support the concept of a minimum living wage, but you do not support the continued rise in the minimum wage? This is a cognitively dissonant position. Over time as inflation causes prices and rise and therefore the cost of living, minimum wage has to be increased or else it is worthless. What is a fair minimum wage today will not be a fair minimum wage in the years to come.

Side: No
2 points

All the middle class..ie..cops, teachers, nurses, etc. should be against minimum wage! "We" can hardly afford a little extra after are $500 per month college loans, a car and actually having to pay for housing and food. With food stamps, walfare and subsidized housing, my teaching career is barely ahead of those people!

The rich have created a glass floor that is almost equal to the middle class. No minimum wage! Give us a reason to be in the middle class and work hard through college!

Side: yes
joyjoslin(1) Disputed
1 point

keeping the min wage does not make companies go over seas I will never understand how you can spit out junk that makes no sense. Companies leave yeah, cheap labor longer work hours, no benefit packages. Less factory laws company permits lic taxes No hazards regulations. It is the whole package deal is the issues. What would solve all these issues of out sourcing is this ... openly think this out before speaking... If a company leaves the USA to open a business else where to avoid these said above issues Only thing we can do there after is tax them on shelve cost price Example Why do we allow a company that makes jeans to leave the USA cost us 50,000 workers Then when they come back to sell their products we still buy them at the same price It does not make sense Tax them 3.5% on all products they sell to American tax payers Simple math You screw us great but we going to get our money

Side: No
1 point

As someone who has been trying to get a job any job for the past five years I can tell you these laws do nothing to help me. I need a job to go to collage but guess what because of these laws all the businesses will not hire people like me. Instead they go for either people who have just gotten out of collage or Mexicans who they can hire at below minimum wage. There is no way for someone like me who was born in this country but not lucky enough to have rich parents to get a job. Entry level people like me should be allowed to compete for jobs and right now we have no way to do that. Even if all I made was ten cents a day it would still be better then the zero cents a day I make now. I can't even get my life started because no one will look at me because they see me as too old and they see no reason why they should pay minimum wage to some one like me when they can get a collage graduate at the same price or a Mexican for far less. I am trapped because of these stupid laws.

Side: Yes

The mininum wage is a failed public policy sponsored by unions. Not only is the government to blame, but unions are just as big as a probelm.

When unions lobby for minimum wages in Congress and State legislatures, they are no advocating for the poor, they are doing the exact opposite; they are protecting the unions from any competition and create less free labor market. The minimum wage consequently hurts the poor because it is protecting those who already have jobs in the union and limits the number of available jobs.

Without the minimum wage, the perceived perception of the race to the bottom of using exfoliation for low wages is an extremely imaginary delusion.

The supply and demand of labor irrefutably regulates wages in the free market without government intervention. Labor

In the supply and demand curve, the supply and demand determines wages based on education and productivity. For example, in China, if the demand for 10 million workers in manufacing is required, then the supply will be met with the demand. The end result is lower pay, which is contributed to the law of diminishing return.

However, why does Alex Rodriquez get paid so much? Well, because the union protects from competition of other leagues and supply and demand of labor.

The union protects him by guaranteeing him and all players a minimum wage. On the supply and demand, how many people are going to hit 30 HRS, 100 RBI's 20 SB, .300 AVG and team leadership every season? Well the supply is likely 1 and demand is very high, like 32 teams. When companies are freely allowed to compete for the most skilled in their profession, wages will increase.

Side: yes

The minimum wage is a bad law because it prevents entry of those with low skill set, and ultimately, they are forced into illegal activity or welfare.

Milton
Side: yes
phoesarah(2) Disputed
0 points

If somebody forced into illegal activity or welfare gets a job offer for 3 dollars an hour, they are probably still going to do the illegal activity. The Minimum wage is barely livable as it is. All the minimum wage will do is allow employers to pay people less than the minimum wage. You give employers too much credit if you think this will help pay the low skilled workers less and be able to pay people that deserve more, more money. It won't go to people that deserve more, it will go to the CEO's.

Side: No
4 points

To take on this issue first we must make some assumptions about economics (These are not moral assumptions):

1.) If a business uses the labor of a citizen, they must pay them the market value of that labor or minimum wage (whichever one is higher) in order for the employee to agree to work for them.

2.) That we are talking about "at will" employees. This means that they can quit or be let go. (In other words their labor is not part of a contract, unlike soldiers.)

3.) That a business must be solvent in order to operate (Making a profit or breaking even).

4.) That a business must incorporate the price of the employees' wages into the cost they charge for their goods or services.

5.) That were talking about legitimate businesses (Not black markets or "under the table" wages).

6.) That we have a progressive tax systems. (That the more money you make the higher percentage of that money you have to pay to the government).

7.) That competition exists, if one person can offer the exact same goods or services cheaper those are goods and services more likely to be used.

8.) That markets are free, people are not forced to use a particular product over the other (I can buy Coke and/or Pepsi).

9.) That supply and demand are dynamic, not static (people will be less likely to buy something the more expensive it is and vice-versa).

10.) That we use goods a services in our lives, that effect the cost of living.

11.) That were in a economy (there is several avenues for work that grant compensation.

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Moral assumption:

1.) That some employees are more skilled than others (due to aptitude, experience, training, etc).

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Now under these assumptions we can see that the company hiring unskilled labor can hire a candidate with more experience or training if they apply, but if you have two applicants for a position who are fresh out of HS with no work experience, it is a toss up. But if we take away minimum wage, the business can hire both for low wage like $2/hour, and simple give them raises for the more productive they are. If there happens to be a employee who never receives a higher wage, they can always apply to another employer, as can their more productive counterpart. The business is able to reward productivity with higher compensation to retain that productive employee. But under minimum wage the company may not be able to hire both, leaving one person unemployed, and the business suffers a opportunity cost if they hired the less productive employee.

Also keep in mind that a lot of goods a services we use are produced by business that employ unskilled employees (Think the mall and grocery store). So if minimum wage is raised so is cost of living for everyone.

Another thing to keep in mind is that business make a higher amount of revenue and hence a higher percentage of their profits will go to taxes, which makes it harder for them to stay in business.

The higher wage a business has to pay an employee of the bat is a higher risk every time the hire a candidate whose market value may be below minimum wage to them. This could lead a company to discriminate against persons of a certain race, gender, creed, origin, etc. In a attempt to reduce risk.

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PS. Read animal farm if you're for keeping minimum wage and pretend you're the horse.

Side: Yes
2 points

1) If we got rid of minimum wage tomorrow, no company would immediately lower their wage to $5 an hour. This would be a gradual thing.

2) If companies are paying less wage for one person, they can use the extra money to pay for the wage of another person. That's one less person unemployed. Now image that x 100.

3) Okay so now companies are lowering their wages and most of you would say these people can no longer afford the cost of living. BUT say this company didn't hire an extra person, they would use this saved money towards resources to make more of their product. In economics, when a company has more of their product, they lower to price to sell more. That means prices of goods are also lower to accommodate the lowered wages.

This is all obviously small scale, but imagine that x 100. That means more people employed and the price of goods lowered. This would not be something that would be seen overnight, and probably in the short run it will be tough.

Side: Yes

Must people are over paid. If one got paid what they were worth, then businesses could actually survive. Instead we reward those that aren't worth anything and penalize those that should be paid more.

Side: yes
3 points

uh... minumum wage is like 5.15/ hr, my turtles couldn't live on that.

Any company that cannot afford to pay its employees at least that, is doing something terribly wrong, and shouldn't be able to survive as a business anyway.

Not to mention people need to have money to spend money, I like how the same people that are for like no taxes ever because the consumer needs more money, are also for the consumer not being paid any money. I smell hypocrisy.

Side: No

Good Lord no! Then small companies can get away with paying even less than they do now. I think the minimum wage is much too low but to remove it would be self defeating.

Side: No
2 points

Improve the economy by making people suffer. Yeah, that's a great idea. Definitely.

No. We can find a solution to our economic crisis that doesn't make the already miserable Middle Class more miserable.

Side: No
1 point

I don't see quite how they would hurt the economy and the people that live in the US. It only helps to make sure that companies aren't taking advantage of their employees by not paying them "enough" money, where that "enough" is defined by the minimum wage in the law.

Side: No
jessald(1915) Disputed
2 points

It's simple: if a company has to pay its employees more, than they have to raise their prices in order to maintain profitability. This is why minimum wage is bad for the economy.

So you may be making more money, but that money is worth less because minimum wage has led to increasing prices.

Side: yes
phoesarah(2) Disputed
2 points

I think you give companies too much credit. The minimum wage exists because companies will take the profit and pay their CEO's more or whatever, they will not lower prices. There have been tax cuts in place for how many years now? Because if taxes are higher then the "job creators" won't create jobs. However, where are the jobs being created? Oh, they aren't, they are just paying their CEO's more with that money. It doesn't trickle down, and they will not use the money to help the economy it will only be used to help themselves

Side: No
WarWorldMan2(3) Disputed
1 point

You're half right. Raising the minimum wage does increase the price of things, but that is not the whole story. There are other factors that contribute to prices going up. War, a major natural disaster, and printing excess money are just a few of the things besides raising the minimum wage that makes prices go up.

Side: No
1 point

Getting rid of minimum wage laws would not raise wages. It seems as if getting rid of the minimum would cause competition between businesses in making the best wages out there, but I'm sure most businesses and companies would actually lower wages to what they are overseas to make more money. Minimum wage enables the government to ensure that any hard worker in America can live off of the money. Of course, it doesn't ensure the same for families or people who barely work though...

Side: No

Exactly. Workers need their work too badly. The demand for work is too high. The companies who pay better can't provide for all workers. Inevitably, someone will end up working for next-to-nothing, because s/he doesn't have any other choice.

I believe that minimum wage should be raised, healthcare should be taken care of, and taxes should be raised to take care of all these things. Consumers can pay higher taxes if they don't need to pay for necessities such as healthcare.

Side: No
3 points

Exactly. The only reason businesses want the laws changed so there is no minimum wage is because they want to put the wages below what is now the minimum, to boost their own profit margin. Seeing as most of the companies wanting the laws changed are large industry with already huge profit margins, and alot of people are already living on or below the povity line I cant see how this would be an improvement to the economy, especially local. I can see however how the local lifestyle would change dramatically for the worst.

Side: No
1 point

Wouldn't getting rid of minimum wage laws mean that if a company wants to pay their employees only $0.25 they can? If so, then how would that help the economy? This is the main reason I oppose abolishing the minimum wage. Of course, if someone could provide evidence to the contrary then I might be persuaded to support abolishing minimum wage laws. For now though I'm against it.

Side: No

There should be a new Minimum Wage law establishing $15.00 per hour since it is now 2015.

Side: No
0 points

Anyone who wants minimum wage laws repealed has not worked for minimum wage. Your ignorance shows, and reflects an easy, pampered life of privilege.

More precisely, those who want the minimum wage out of the way are representatives of massive corporations which will use the opportunity to gut employee wages, taking up that money into their top ranks, getting rich beyond the dreams of even the most greedy scum humanity has to offer.

Those who ignorantly champion this cause don't know their history very well. Workers will be dehumanized -- broken into little more than servants to the rich. It has happened before in our very nation. Miners, Textile Workers, Mill Workers, making not even enough to put food on their table.

No, no, no a thousand times no. This will not help our economy either... it will only make things worse. After all, with what money will we buy anything... when most of us are making $2.50 an hour?

Side: No
Zybz(1) Disputed
2 points

I'm curious who do you think the minimum wage laws are protecting and who do you think they are hurting exactly?

You have to understand the only people who would be willing to take the jobs that offer wages below min. wage are the ones who need it the most. 8.9% unemployment at this moment. People need jobs, and they're gettin desperate.

Dehumanized,,, I believe your understanding of America's history is greatly exaggerated. Employees understand the risks of the job but they continue to do it anyways because, for the employees, the rewards are greater than the risks. It's quite similar to a smoker addicted to tobacco. They know cigarettes will kill them but they smoke anyways.

I also contest it will absolutely help our economy. If American employers can find cheaper labor domestically, then there will be no need to outsource jobs. This will cut down all the transportation expenses it costs to ship that new laptop from China to your doorstep.

All this saved money means companies can lower the prices of goods, so those American made jeans are now a lot cheaper. If American goods are cheaper, then that means our exports will be cheaper which in turn makes it easier for global markets to purchase American goods. Increasing exports basically means that people in France, China, Australia, etc. are giving us money for our goods.

If you know history then you should already understand that this is what America has been doing for the past century and it's the exact same thing that has propelled us into the world's most dominant economic power. Why are we trying to stop a system that has proven to work successfully time after time?

Side: yes