Should we give 2nd chances?
Dana has asked for a second chance. I don't think she realized what she was causing (good and bad) for the site. The good was lots of traffic. The bad was lots of the wrong kind of traffic.
So here is the deal. Dana has asked for another chance. I am willing to give it to her. She has promised to eliminate the drama. Have you noticed the lack of drama since she was banned? She has to stop attacking people and MUST stop her negative remarks about CreateDebate all over the internet (Twitter, DDO, FB, etc.).
I have asked her to take some time off, but would like to allow her back sooner than later. This is your chance to share with me why you would or would not let her back. This won't affect her being allowed back, but half of you will get to say I told you so! I hope it is the half that says she will be ok coming back.
What are your feelings.
Andy
Yes
Side Score: 146
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No
Side Score: 159
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With all due respect Andy, all of the above is freedom, unless she makes personal threats to a members well being I personally think all is fair game, even talking shit on Createdebate, isn't that the American way Andy? Yes I know some members are not American but you are and you of anyone should uphold that because if we start to censer members then we become North-Korea-Createdebtate.com not Createdebate.com. Dana has broken no CD laws unless you count pissing people off against the CD law, your call bro you are the CD President & Constitution so it's up to you on what type of Country/Site you want to run. freedom or censorship. Side: No
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I think so when she can keep herself in check she can come up with some good debates if she keeps her drama in check shouldn't be a problem and the drama is a two way street she was given a lot of crap just before her previous ban, I honestly don't know if it was in retaliation for something she said but if everyone gets involved in drama and abusing other members should they not all deserve the same punishment? Side: Yes
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i don't mind giving a second chance, but this is what? like the 100th chance now? she needs to realise her mistake before she apologises. she just says sorry when she thinks arguing is not worth her time. she doesn't say she's sorry because she really is, she says it because she's bored or tired. which is why i think she repeats her faults over and over again. Side: No
Yes we should. I don't even understand why she was banned in the first place. If you guys hadn't attacked her at every moment you saw (you know who you are), she would be all right. I still don't understand what you had against her but it was unfair and cruel of you guys (again you know who you are). Let her back in and lets actually get to some serious debating, and not attack. Side: Yes
You don't think Dana brought this on herself? You think everyone on this site decided to pick on one user for no reason? I can't speak from everyones perspective, but I'll tell you mine. The first time I realized Dana was trouble, is when she kept banning me because she didn't like my opinion. That was obviously annoying... but then she started repeating herself in every argument, offering nothing to the debates. I witnessed users try and have a civilized debate with her, but she ended up offended EVERY time, which usually resulted in her saying either "judge not lest you be judged" or "leave me alone", over and over again, even when people were trying to calm her down. Then I noticed how angry she could get. She threatened to send thugs after a user, threatened to personally kill a user, and then threatened to kill herself. Andy warned her multiple times to stop and she always returned back to her normal ways after a day or so. I don't know if you were around to witness the Pre-Dana days on CD, but they were nice. Side: No
pick on one user for no reason? So you are right here admitting that people picked on her? Because most people did. Many reasons as well I've seen. Because they think she's wrong and her opinion was stupid. Because she gets angry. Because at times she may have attacked others, yet everyone decided to do it back to her which makes you sink to that level you dislike. "leave me alone" And you never did, did you? You kept pushing her and pushing her, some had the decency to back off but a select few just kept pushing her. I'm not saying she didn't push herself a bit, but you had the power to back off yourselves.
I don't know if you were around to witness the Pre-Dana days on CD, but they were nice. I've been here for 544 days I've seen the "pre-dana days". I only ever met her when she supposedly came back to the site after a long break everyone seemed to like then, then everyone hated her. Side: Yes
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I agree that this site would probably be better off without Dana. However, one thing seems cruel to me: that is giving her a promise of a "second" chance, and then finally denying her that chance. This is my personal opinion, and I understand it might be caused by lack of information. To me this looks a lot like pardoning someone from capital punishment, only to tell them later that you've changed your mind. Side: Yes
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Let her back, yes she is crazy half the time, but we all are, yes she is emotional, but we all are, yes she has strong views but all do. I have learned to just let people be people, that's the American way, the good the bad and the Christian.. oops I mean ugly (see I did it) so yes let her back, after all I must admit it's fun to read the drama every now and then. Side: Yes
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I have to say on Dana's behalf that there are people who continue the drama themselves. And it isn't fair to put the entire blame on Dana when people continue fueling the fire. It is hypocritical in a way. And she wins a Snappy Award...as if her presence was actually worthy on Create Debate. I am not saying it is and im not saying it is not. But posting this debate makes it seem as to why she gotten an award in the first place. It is hypocritical. I think not only Dana needs to change her outlook, i think those who fuel the fire need to do so as well. Side: Yes
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I find it kinda disappointing that Andy has to read "It is her or me" kinda speeches. I mean, he gives out shirts and he pays for this site for us to debate on. If you don't want to speak or debate with Dana, it is really simple. Ignore her and BAN her. I am a troll and troll don't last long when people do not care. Don't let one user take you from this site. That is really absurd. And don't act like you guys haven't fueled the fire. I mean you freaking nominated her for an award. Just ban the woman from your debates guys. How freaking hard is that? And stop complaining...IT IS JUST ONE INTERNET WOMAN. Not like it is real life. The sooner you realize this and follow my instructions, the more easy it is to be on this site. Side: Yes
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Of course she should come back. People make mistakes, and no matter how ridiculous and obnoxious they are, they can change for the better. And it's not like you're giving her 3rd, 4th, or 5th chances; just one more. She said she was sorry and that she would stop, so let's give her a chance to back up those words with actions. Side: Yes
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Didn't you message Dana multiple times, warning her that she would be banned if she didn't stop the drama... and EVERY time she returned to her usual ways? Dana has mental issues, like REAL mental issues. She isn't going to permanently change, because she takes every argument offensively. I even tried coaching her once on how to relax and not take everything so personally. She took my advice for about an hour and then returned back to normal. In my opinion, she should have been permanently banned after she threatened to kill a user as well as herself. That almost seems like something the authorities should have been notified about. Maybe she attracts a lot of traffic, but if she really does change, then that won't be the case, right? Just an extra user who likes to post random shit, that usually isn't debatable. Maybe you're nicer than me, but I don't see how she is deserving of a second chance. Side: No
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Second chance? That's a joke... How many times have you warned her in the past? How did her "self imposed" week long break work out? She doesn't deserve a second chance and to be honest, considering her mental state, she shouldn't even be allowed on a site like this. She's threatened to kill herself to get her way... what if she actually does it because of something that happens on this site? I have never asked for anyone to be banned... not even Prodigee. I thought his main account should be shut down because he was point farming with it, but I see no reason why he couldn't keep another account as long as he didn't point farm or spam. But Dana is the exception. She should've been banned long ago and I couldn't believe it took you this long but now you're allowing her to come back? Wow! This really is unbelievable. How many people are you going to let Dana chase off? I have always tried to back you (and this site) up publicly but I can't do it in this case... I'm very disappointed. Looks like I will be spending a lot less time around here. Side: No
No, she shouldn't be allowed back. Her contribution to the site has been primarily harmful and she managed to transform this site from a debating arena to a personal message board. I'm sorry, but during her stay here the content of the site suffered an immense drop in quality - the first page was mostly flooded with trite, empty and annoying personal statements that had nothing to do with any particular topic. Those ''I wrote a poem'' or ''I'm a badass bitch'' or whatever type of topics are detrimental to a site that's supposedly dedicated to the exchange of worldviews. People come here for the sole reason of testing their views, policies and philosophies. They don't come here to socialize as in some other message board, because there are other places for that. Seeing these topics flooding the main page sends the message that this site isn't serious about debating, it may actually send the message that debating here isn't even the main focus. As long as this sort of content with questionable value is tolerated - this site will always live in the shadow of other debate sites such as debate.org, which take debating far more seriously and have a far stricter policy on what constiutes as garbage content. I'm not saying that you need to moderate the shit out of this place, i'm saying that clearly certain topics have nothing to do with actual debating and should be reserved for some other websites. It is clear that a lot of people have left this site or have assumed a very passive, lurking role. It's because they feel alienated, they feel that this site has been hijacked by people who use it as a platform to vent their personal issues. TLDR - This site can't grow any real credibility as long as it tolerates users such as Dana, whose only real contribution to this site is flooding it with garbage content that has no place in a site dedicated to debating. Side: No
i didn't realize we were discussing Dana here. i don't know about her though. i think you've given her quite a few chances. the leader board actually seems normal now, with a lot more deserving people. i do believe in giving second chances, but i think Dana has had enough chances. just my opinion though. :/ Side: No
No I think that Dana shouldn't be given a second chance. She might promise now that she won't do those kinds of things but then later on she will do them. She even said she would leave for this site for a week and she never did. If you let her back on all I would see is the same Dana returning back to CreateDebate and others would see that to. Side: No
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She has told me she was going to change multiple times, but I believe that she is physically incapable of doing that due to her condition at present. I do not believe createdebate is healthy for her nor does it benefit from her presence. Maybe in the future we can give her another chance, but right now is too soon. Side: No
Sure, let her come back for a second chance, she is just SO deserving of it. And maybe if you're real lucky you too will be called a Cunt and told to suck Hellno's dick like she told me on a public debate. Great call as the owner of this site Andy... Are you really serious about this?!?! If so it is un-freaking believable that you would subject other users to her issues and vulgarities all for the sake of increasing traffic to your site! Side: No
Wait, I am not doing it for the traffic...I simply pointed out that she creates traffic...but the wrong kind. What I am doing is trying to gather enough information so she can see what she has been doing wrong and learn from the feedback. If you feel she has been too vulgar (more than others on the site), I will let he know she has to restrain herself. This will not be a sit back and hope for the best situation. I want you all watching this. If she starts to stray, she is banned! It is that simple! Please believe me that is isn't about traffic. Traffic does me no good when it is drama! So you wouldn't give her a second chance? Side: Yes
I apologize for misinterpreting your justifications for wanting to allow her a second chance. Especially as others have pointed out, she was given more than 2 already. But I have to say I am VERY thankful you've reconsidered and decided against it. I believe you won't regret it! Thanks again! :) Side: No
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She abused the noun 'right' so much that I can't hear or read it without thinking of her... She doesn't really need to be here, so she has no claim that she ought to. She is obviously causing trouble for well meaning users, and I think the needs of these users should be respected more than hers. Side: No
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