CreateDebate


Debate Info

146
159
Yes No
Debate Score:305
Arguments:86
Total Votes:393
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (38)
 
 No (48)

Debate Creator

addltd(5122) pic



Should we give 2nd chances?

Dana has asked for a second chance.  I don't think she realized what she was causing (good and bad) for the site.  The good was lots of traffic.  The bad was lots of the wrong kind of traffic.

So here is the deal.  Dana has asked for another chance.  I am willing to give it to her.  She has promised to eliminate the drama.  Have you noticed the lack of drama since she was banned?  She has to stop attacking people and MUST stop her negative remarks about CreateDebate all over the internet (Twitter, DDO, FB, etc.).

 

I have asked her to take some time off, but would like to allow her back sooner than later.  This is your chance to share with me why you would or would not let her back.  This won't affect her being allowed back, but half of you will get to say I told you so!  I hope it is the half that says she will be ok coming back.

 

What are your feelings.

 

Andy

Yes

Side Score: 146
VS.

No

Side Score: 159
10 points

I will give Dana a second chance, but she will be given very little latitude to step out of bounds! No drama, no CD slamming, just good old fashioned argumentation.

Side: Yes
1 point

ABSOLUTELY

Side: Yes
Warjin(1577) Disputed
1 point

With all due respect Andy, all of the above is freedom, unless she makes personal threats to a members well being I personally think all is fair game, even talking shit on Createdebate, isn't that the American way Andy?

Yes I know some members are not American but you are and you of anyone should uphold that because if we start to censer members then we become North-Korea-Createdebtate.com not Createdebate.com.

Dana has broken no CD laws unless you count pissing people off against the CD law, your call bro you are the CD President & Constitution so it's up to you on what type of Country/Site you want to run. freedom or censorship.

Side: No
1 point

You Papi, are a real man with integrity. Thank you. ;)

Side: No
6 points

Sure give her a second chance. No 3rd chance though.

If she can't hold up to her word(which I doubt she can hold up to it), then simply ban her again.

Side: Yes
6 points

I have to agree! I will share this with her.

Side: Yes
Atrag(5550) Disputed
0 points

But this is her 3rd chance isn't it? Didn't you 'suggest' she took a weeks break? And if we were to include all the times she had done something bad and then asked for your forgiven I presume that this would be more like the 22nd chance?

Side: No
1 point

she should not get a third chance....... not even if she starts crying for it..

Side: Yes
0 points

BRILLIANT! WELL SAID!

Side: Yes
6 points

I think so when she can keep herself in check she can come up with some good debates if she keeps her drama in check shouldn't be a problem and the drama is a two way street she was given a lot of crap just before her previous ban, I honestly don't know if it was in retaliation for something she said but if everyone gets involved in drama and abusing other members should they not all deserve the same punishment?

Side: Yes
0 points

ALWAYS AND FOREVER!

Side: Yes
5 points

I think Dana is cool (I know not everyone agrees but this is my opinion) and also I think everyone no matter what and no matter the circumstance deserves a 2nd chance.

Side: Yes
1 point

i don't mind giving a second chance, but this is what? like the 100th chance now?

she needs to realise her mistake before she apologises. she just says sorry when she thinks arguing is not worth her time. she doesn't say she's sorry because she really is, she says it because she's bored or tired.

which is why i think she repeats her faults over and over again.

Side: No
4 points

Yes we should. I don't even understand why she was banned in the first place. If you guys hadn't attacked her at every moment you saw (you know who you are), she would be all right. I still don't understand what you had against her but it was unfair and cruel of you guys (again you know who you are). Let her back in and lets actually get to some serious debating, and not attack.

Side: Yes
Hellno(17758) Disputed
3 points

So what you are saying is... when Dana attacks people for disagreeing with her and they fight back, she's the victim?

Side: No
Vermink(1943) Disputed
3 points

Wasn't saying she was the victim at all, I'm not even saying that she never attacked others. My problem is that people all complained about that, yet they all did it themselves. So basically they've all sunk to very same level they complained about.

Side: Yes
GuitarGuy(6096) Disputed
1 point

You don't think Dana brought this on herself? You think everyone on this site decided to pick on one user for no reason?

I can't speak from everyones perspective, but I'll tell you mine. The first time I realized Dana was trouble, is when she kept banning me because she didn't like my opinion. That was obviously annoying... but then she started repeating herself in every argument, offering nothing to the debates. I witnessed users try and have a civilized debate with her, but she ended up offended EVERY time, which usually resulted in her saying either "judge not lest you be judged" or "leave me alone", over and over again, even when people were trying to calm her down. Then I noticed how angry she could get. She threatened to send thugs after a user, threatened to personally kill a user, and then threatened to kill herself. Andy warned her multiple times to stop and she always returned back to her normal ways after a day or so.

I don't know if you were around to witness the Pre-Dana days on CD, but they were nice.

Side: No
Vermink(1943) Disputed
3 points

pick on one user for no reason?

So you are right here admitting that people picked on her? Because most people did. Many reasons as well I've seen. Because they think she's wrong and her opinion was stupid. Because she gets angry. Because at times she may have attacked others, yet everyone decided to do it back to her which makes you sink to that level you dislike.

"leave me alone"

And you never did, did you? You kept pushing her and pushing her, some had the decency to back off but a select few just kept pushing her. I'm not saying she didn't push herself a bit, but you had the power to back off yourselves.

I don't know if you were around to witness the Pre-Dana days on CD, but they were nice.

I've been here for 544 days I've seen the "pre-dana days". I only ever met her when she supposedly came back to the site after a long break everyone seemed to like then, then everyone hated her.

Side: Yes
4 points

We have nothing to lose. At worst, we just ban her again

Side: Yes
1 point

VERY WELL DONE SIRE!!!

Side: Yes
1 point

Thanks

Side: Yes
3 points

Why not? .

Side: Yes
3 points

I agree that this site would probably be better off without Dana.

However, one thing seems cruel to me: that is giving her a promise of a "second" chance, and then finally denying her that chance.

This is my personal opinion, and I understand it might be caused by lack of information.

To me this looks a lot like pardoning someone from capital punishment, only to tell them later that you've changed your mind.

Side: Yes
3 points

I OFFICIALLY DECLARE THIS POLL AS NOT RIGGED

Side: Yes
2 points

i think we should give her a 2nd chance only if she agrees to stop spreading bad things about createdebate and i don't want createdebate to close down...

Side: Yes
2 points

Let her back, yes she is crazy half the time, but we all are, yes she is emotional, but we all are, yes she has strong views but all do.

I have learned to just let people be people, that's the American way, the good the bad and the Christian.. oops I mean ugly (see I did it) so yes let her back, after all I must admit it's fun to read the drama every now and then.

Side: Yes
2 points

I don't know her since I come on here to troll, but you should give her a second chance but make her walk on thin ice.

Side: Yes

I vote yes, because although I have no idea who Dana is, after doing a search on her name, it seems like you all won't have much to talk about if she's not here.

Side: Yes
2 points

I have to say on Dana's behalf that there are people who continue the drama themselves. And it isn't fair to put the entire blame on Dana when people continue fueling the fire. It is hypocritical in a way.

And she wins a Snappy Award...as if her presence was actually worthy on Create Debate. I am not saying it is and im not saying it is not. But posting this debate makes it seem as to why she gotten an award in the first place. It is hypocritical.

I think not only Dana needs to change her outlook, i think those who fuel the fire need to do so as well.

Side: Yes
2 points

I find it kinda disappointing that Andy has to read "It is her or me" kinda speeches. I mean, he gives out shirts and he pays for this site for us to debate on.

If you don't want to speak or debate with Dana, it is really simple. Ignore her and BAN her. I am a troll and troll don't last long when people do not care.

Don't let one user take you from this site. That is really absurd. And don't act like you guys haven't fueled the fire. I mean you freaking nominated her for an award.

Just ban the woman from your debates guys. How freaking hard is that? And stop complaining...IT IS JUST ONE INTERNET WOMAN. Not like it is real life. The sooner you realize this and follow my instructions, the more easy it is to be on this site.

Side: Yes
2 points

I think everyone deserves a second chance, no excuses. But if she is not acting correctly for the third chance, she should be banned.

Side: Yes
2 points

Yes we should imo we should even give a 3rd chance but only in things that are right

Side: Yes
1 point

This debate is rigged. ;)

Side: Yes

Yes. .

Side: Yes
1 point

Of course she should come back. People make mistakes, and no matter how ridiculous and obnoxious they are, they can change for the better. And it's not like you're giving her 3rd, 4th, or 5th chances; just one more. She said she was sorry and that she would stop, so let's give her a chance to back up those words with actions.

Side: Yes
1 point

I think yes, we should give 2nd chance, because people make mistakes - It is normal. We learn only by own mistakes. But if it is repeated 3 times, it is repeated again. So in my point of view, we should forgive if it's happens 1st time

Side: Yes
6 points

Didn't you message Dana multiple times, warning her that she would be banned if she didn't stop the drama... and EVERY time she returned to her usual ways? Dana has mental issues, like REAL mental issues. She isn't going to permanently change, because she takes every argument offensively. I even tried coaching her once on how to relax and not take everything so personally. She took my advice for about an hour and then returned back to normal.

In my opinion, she should have been permanently banned after she threatened to kill a user as well as herself. That almost seems like something the authorities should have been notified about.

Maybe she attracts a lot of traffic, but if she really does change, then that won't be the case, right? Just an extra user who likes to post random shit, that usually isn't debatable.

Maybe you're nicer than me, but I don't see how she is deserving of a second chance.

Side: No
DanasLawyer(28) Disputed
4 points

Dana has converted to Satanism and therefore has been reborn and deserves a second chance because God no longer commands her. :)

Side: Yes
3 points

Ok, no second chances...she won't be allowed back!

Side: No
2 points

Alright! That's good news.

Side: No
DanasLawyer(28) Disputed
2 points

Sorry Andy, but you are legally required to not be an asshole according to Prodigenious law.

Side: Yes

Unfortunately, Ismalia/DanaforYeshua/Sitara is the reason why I left. It is her or me.

Side: No
2 points

Ok, no second chances...she won't be allowed back!

Side: No
DanasLawyer(28) Disputed
2 points

You point whore less than her. You are more dispensable from the site. Lawyers never lie.

Side: Yes
5 points

Second chance? That's a joke... How many times have you warned her in the past? How did her "self imposed" week long break work out? She doesn't deserve a second chance and to be honest, considering her mental state, she shouldn't even be allowed on a site like this. She's threatened to kill herself to get her way... what if she actually does it because of something that happens on this site?

I have never asked for anyone to be banned... not even Prodigee. I thought his main account should be shut down because he was point farming with it, but I see no reason why he couldn't keep another account as long as he didn't point farm or spam. But Dana is the exception. She should've been banned long ago and I couldn't believe it took you this long but now you're allowing her to come back? Wow! This really is unbelievable. How many people are you going to let Dana chase off? I have always tried to back you (and this site) up publicly but I can't do it in this case... I'm very disappointed.

Looks like I will be spending a lot less time around here.

Side: No
5 points

Ok, no second chances...she won't be allowed back!

Side: No
4 points

No offense Andy, but when you say "Ok, no second chances" that makes everyone out to be douche bags... I don't think any of us are against seconds chances, it's just that no one views this as a second chance, more like tenth.

Side: No
addltd(5122) Clarified
4 points

Ok, no multiple chances....

Side: Yes
5 points

No, she shouldn't be allowed back. Her contribution to the site has been primarily harmful and she managed to transform this site from a debating arena to a personal message board.

I'm sorry, but during her stay here the content of the site suffered an immense drop in quality - the first page was mostly flooded with trite, empty and annoying personal statements that had nothing to do with any particular topic. Those ''I wrote a poem'' or ''I'm a badass bitch'' or whatever type of topics are detrimental to a site that's supposedly dedicated to the exchange of worldviews. People come here for the sole reason of testing their views, policies and philosophies. They don't come here to socialize as in some other message board, because there are other places for that. Seeing these topics flooding the main page sends the message that this site isn't serious about debating, it may actually send the message that debating here isn't even the main focus.

As long as this sort of content with questionable value is tolerated - this site will always live in the shadow of other debate sites such as debate.org, which take debating far more seriously and have a far stricter policy on what constiutes as garbage content. I'm not saying that you need to moderate the shit out of this place, i'm saying that clearly certain topics have nothing to do with actual debating and should be reserved for some other websites.

It is clear that a lot of people have left this site or have assumed a very passive, lurking role. It's because they feel alienated, they feel that this site has been hijacked by people who use it as a platform to vent their personal issues.

TLDR - This site can't grow any real credibility as long as it tolerates users such as Dana, whose only real contribution to this site is flooding it with garbage content that has no place in a site dedicated to debating.

Side: No
4 points

The thing is she has tried to be civil multiple times before it lasted only a few days before she was back to her old self.

Side: No
2 points

I agree, but do you think she is worthy of a second chance?

Side: No
3 points

Sure but I doubt it will last long.

Side: No
4 points

i didn't realize we were discussing Dana here. i don't know about her though. i think you've given her quite a few chances. the leader board actually seems normal now, with a lot more deserving people. i do believe in giving second chances, but i think Dana has had enough chances. just my opinion though. :/

Side: No
3 points

No I think that Dana shouldn't be given a second chance. She might promise now that she won't do those kinds of things but then later on she will do them. She even said she would leave for this site for a week and she never did. If you let her back on all I would see is the same Dana returning back to CreateDebate and others would see that to.

Side: No
3 points

Dang man, it took a lot for you to declare me as an enemy. If you want her gone, then it must be real bad.

Side: No
2 points

I don't want her on here because my words mean nothing to her. I have tried to help her and she just ignores my help. I have seen her debate with other people and she just doesn't listen to what other people say. And then she gets offended if you try to help her.

Side: No

She has told me she was going to change multiple times, but I believe that she is physically incapable of doing that due to her condition at present. I do not believe createdebate is healthy for her nor does it benefit from her presence. Maybe in the future we can give her another chance, but right now is too soon.

Side: No
2 points

Sure, let her come back for a second chance, she is just SO deserving of it. And maybe if you're real lucky you too will be called a Cunt and told to suck Hellno's dick like she told me on a public debate. Great call as the owner of this site Andy... Are you really serious about this?!?! If so it is un-freaking believable that you would subject other users to her issues and vulgarities all for the sake of increasing traffic to your site!

Side: No
addltd(5122) Clarified
5 points

Wait, I am not doing it for the traffic...I simply pointed out that she creates traffic...but the wrong kind. What I am doing is trying to gather enough information so she can see what she has been doing wrong and learn from the feedback. If you feel she has been too vulgar (more than others on the site), I will let he know she has to restrain herself. This will not be a sit back and hope for the best situation. I want you all watching this. If she starts to stray, she is banned! It is that simple!

Please believe me that is isn't about traffic. Traffic does me no good when it is drama!

So you wouldn't give her a second chance?

Side: Yes
1 point

I apologize for misinterpreting your justifications for wanting to allow her a second chance. Especially as others have pointed out, she was given more than 2 already. But I have to say I am VERY thankful you've reconsidered and decided against it. I believe you won't regret it! Thanks again! :)

Side: No
Intangible(4933) Clarified
3 points

The good was lots of traffic. The bad was lots of the wrong kind of traffic.

I am pretty sure he is not doing it for the traffic.

Side: Yes
2 points

Ok, no second chances...she won't be allowed back!

Side: No
upvote(21) Disputed
1 point

i only called you that because you were stalking me, and I never said anything about Hellno's alleged dick. Ew.

Side: Yes
2 points

I'm a strong believer in 2st chances.

Side: No
2 points

She abused the noun 'right' so much that I can't hear or read it without thinking of her... She doesn't really need to be here, so she has no claim that she ought to. She is obviously causing trouble for well meaning users, and I think the needs of these users should be respected more than hers.

Side: No
2 points

Ok, no second chances...she won't be allowed back!

Side: No
2 points

Why she why not he he also do wrong things i am a rrrrrrrrrrrrroiiiovgsgfafhzvsjsjrvggfsfhdhhfgjfddd

Side: No

I have changed my mind now I know how she was acting towards people she clearly can be awfully rude and unpleasant.

Side: No

She is just going to be like prod and create another account with a new email like the others who got banned some years ago.

Side: No
2 points

She already has! Hellno made a list of them lol.

Side: No

I see them all also.

Side: No