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36
47
Steak Salad
Debate Score:83
Arguments:57
Total Votes:96
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 Steak (25)
 
 Salad (28)

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kozlov(1755) pic



Steak or Salad: Is Vegetarianism foolish?

Tongue OutVeg vs Meat

 

 

Steak

Side Score: 36
VS.

Salad

Side Score: 47
4 points

Look at human teeth, they are made for ripping and tearing flesh. Why not be natural??

Side: Steak
pakicetus(1455) Disputed
1 point

Look again, humans don't have teeth made for tearing flesh, our fangs are small and dull, and our molars are not sharp, they're for grinding

EDIT: Also, I hate vegetables

Side: Salad
nummi(1432) Disputed
1 point

That's because they are for tearing flesh and for grinding vegetables. They are for both. We are omnivores.

Side: Steak
2 points

I'd rather have a nice juicy steak than eating a bunch of rabbit food ¬_¬

Side: Steak
Elvira(3446) Clarified
1 point

I've never seen a rabbit eat pasta... oh, wait I have. My bad.

Just because rabbits can eat it, doesn't mean it tastes bad.

Side: Steak
2 points

It is natural to eat meat, but I understand some people saying they don't like the way animals are treated. However, what really pisses me off is for example if I have a vegetarian come to our house for dinner, they will demand we give them vegetarian food. You go to their house however, and they won't serve you bacon or a steak e.t.c. No, they will say " Well, I thought it would be nice if you try some vegetables for a change." Goddammit I do eat vegetables too, you come to my house, you're a guest you eat what you want, but don't force your unhealthy dieting upon me. Just to say, if anyone has ever seen Come Dine With Me with a vegetarian in it, you will know what I am talking about!

(I was conforming to the stereotype, I know not everyone is like that so don't argue back "oh I am a vegetarian and I don't do that" because no one likes a whinger (Hence my many, many friends here ;P)

Side: Steak
Elvira(3446) Clarified
0 points

It's like a religion where the believer is strongly against something. They refuse to be asscociated with it in any way.

Side: Steak
1 point

There are a few reasons I believe that vegetarianism is somewhat flawed. From the moral perspective, a lot of people go vegan because of the negative effect obviously imposed upon animals, or that they don't want their impact of eating the meat to lead to more animals to be killed, but there is no clear cut moral perspective to this, because naturally it would be unfair to say that all life matters to support the vegetarian argument, only to then turn around and eat a plant, which is also a living being who might be able to feel stimulation, even without the nerve system that other beings have, for all we know it could be excruciating pain that we inflict on every vegetable we consume. Along with that the demand for meat in our world is not going to go down for the majority of people, there is no change for that, a majority of humans do and will forever crave meat, as it is in our genetics to do so, due to the fact that in earlier sages of humanity while there was the option of consuming other foods, in prehistoric times there was no way obtaining a consistent diet of only fruits or vegetables due to the lack of agriculture therefore going vegetarian would not stop animals from being killed as there would still be a market to consume it, so your one act of cutting meat out of your life will likely not save a single animal, because meat will still be put on the shelves of stores in abundance and then a large portion of it will go to waste. As for the health side of things, while there is indeed a lot of health benefits that come with being vegetarian, these do not outweigh the cons that come with removing meat from the diet of a being that is made to consume meat. I think that we just need a healthy balance in our lives, and different portions of food dependent on your needs, which is why in some cases vegetarianism can be the right lifestyle for some people and their nutritional necessities, but as it stands for the majority, cutting meat out of your life entirely would only be a determent to your own health and would therefore be foolish.

Side: Steak
excon(17069) Disputed
1 point

There are a few reasons I believe that vegetarianism is somewhat flawed.

Hello Rational Guy:

What you're saying SOUNDS important.. But, I ain't gonna read a long, long, run on paragraph.. Shorten it to a couple and I'm on board.

excon

Side: Salad
Developing(469) Disputed
1 point

Remember guys, Excon has difficulty reading. Too many words when put together confuses him.

Side: Steak
0 points

It's not 'foolish,' it's a personal choice. I love steak, and because I question the integrity of an absolute morality; I cannot say that raising cows to kill and harvest their flesh for eating is at all bad.

Side: Steak
0 points

I understand that girls can choose the healthy alternative vegetarianism, but for guys it wouldn't be a great idea. Proteins is mostly in all sorts of meat, which is essential for building and maintaining muscles. That's why I choose steaks, but I would love to date a girl that only ate veggies, as I would imagine that she would pretty fit.

Side: Steak
3 points

Vegetarians get plenty of protein to build muscle. See my argument here http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/ Steak_or_Salad_Is_Vegetarianism_foolish#arg340575

Side: Salad
2 points

Apparently, I was wrong. Didn't know that there was that much protein in stuff like the things mentioned on this site: http://vegetarian.about.com/od/healthnutrition/tp/protein.htm. Thumbs up, for educating me ;)

Side: Salad
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
0 points

Animal protein are much more complex/complete and more effective for Human in long term it does less damage than simple plant proteins.

Side: Steak

Well, I am most definitely a meat lover. I wouldn't necessarily call Vegetarianism foolish though. However, I do not see the point in it. Like, I understand why they do it. But There is a food chain. We are at the top, it is NATURAL for us to eat animals. Humanity has been doing it for an EXTREMELY long time, ever since the beginning. Thats just how life works. It is not wrong to kill animals. Yes, I can understand why some people think that. I am an animal lover too. But you have to understand that this is just a natural part of life.

Side: Steak
Elvira(3446) Disputed
2 points

It is natural to cannibalise, yet we don't do that anymore.

Side: Salad
RationalGuy(1) Disputed
1 point

This is true, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't cannibalize.

Side: Steak
0 points

You don't win friends with salad

You don't win friends with salad

You don't win friends with salad

You don't win friends with salad

You don't win friends with salad
Side: Steak
3 points

I am not a vegetarian.

That being said, I have no problem with Vegans. You wanna eat everything but meat? Perfectly fine.

As long as meat-eaters don't discriminate against Vegans, and Vegans don't discriminate against meat-eaters.

So, in answer to the topic: No, Vegans are not foolish. Not my personal lifestyle choice, but not foolish.

Side: Salad
3 points

There is nor harm of any infection or disease by eating veg food whereas eating those flesh and other things can cause diseases spread now a days and every one of us are aware what they are. So be vegetarian.

Supporting Evidence: Read on this page (www.fix-knee-pain.com)
Side: Salad
2 points

Meat makes me ill. I vote salad~ with extra beansprouts.

Side: Salad

Vegetarian diets are healthier

Vegetarian diets are lower in fat, cholesterol and saturated fat. Both the American Heart Association and American Diabetic Association say vegetarian diets decrease the risk of heart disease, diabetes, osteoporosis, high blood pressure, obesity, kidney stress, certain types of cancer, and digestive problems. [1]

Vegetarians get enough protein

It's a very common myth that vegetarians don't get enough protein. Nearly every food has protein. "Protein intake in vegetarian diets is only slightly lower than in meat diets and can meet daily requirements for any person, including athletes and bodybuilders. Studies at Harvard University as well as other studies conducted in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and various European countries, confirmed vegetarian diets provide sufficient protein intake as long as a variety of plant sources are available and consumed." [2]

Too much protein is harmful. "It's been estimated that the average person in this country eats two - six times more protein, usually from animals, than is needed for good nutrition. At it's most extreme, our protein fixation has led to the popularity of high-protein low-carb weight loss diets, condemned by doctors and nutritionists from coast to coast." [3]

A vegetarian diet is better for the environment

The United Nations Food and Agricultural Organization said one of the largest contributors to air polution, water polution, land degradation, climate change, and loss of biodiversity. The report said "the livestock sector emerges as one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global." [5]

Factory farms are unethical

Factory farms are just concentration camps for animals. WARNING!!! the following videos are very graphic and show just how horrific the treatment of animals is in factory farms.

Shocking cruelty at tyson foods supplier: http://www.nsfwyoutube.com/watch?v=bNY4Fjsdft4

What Are Factory Farmers Hiding? See for Yourself: http://www.nsfwyoutube.com/watch?v=tGIsNXudxg8

What is factory farming? - LAYING HENS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kipdLxzTw4g

Factory Farming in 60 Seconds Flat: http://www.nsfwyoutube.com/watch?v=I2dGvZiHUJ0

Death On A Factory Farm [HBO] (2009): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfiolWwzD94

Vegetarian/Vegan Athletes

A study by the University of British Columbia says "plant and animal protein sources appear to provide equivalent support to athletic training and performance." [4]

There are many athletes who are vegetarian or vegan.

-UFC fighter Mac Danzig

-Professional bodybuilder Robert Cheeke

-Professional triathlete and ultra marathon national champion Brendan Brazier

-Six-time Ironman winner Dave Scott

-Four-time Mr. Universe Bill Pearl

-World-record holder in bench press Stan Price.

-Ultramarathoner Scott Jurek

-Professional baseball player Prince Fielder

-Professional hockey player Michael Zigomanis

-Minnesota Twins pitcher Pat Neshek

-Atlanta Hawks Guard Salim Stoudamire

-Kansas City Chiefs tight-end Tony Gonzalez

-Tennis star Martina Navratilova

-Strength trainer Mike Mahler

-Multi-sport olympian Carl Lewis said his best year of track competition was the first year that he ate a vegan diet.

Sources:

[1] http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090701103002.htm

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism#Protein

[3] http://www.savvyvegetarian.com/articles/ protein-veg-diet.php

[4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15212753/

[5] http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM

Side: Salad
kozlov(1755) Disputed
2 points

Everything you have stated is absolutely correct, but I'm still going to eat meat. I find it natural. However, I don't believe animals should be treated the way they are, I think we need to raise our meats the old fashioned way.

Side: Steak
ricedaragh(2494) Disputed
2 points

Vegetarian diets are lower in fat, cholesterol and saturated fat.

If and only if you eat only fresh possibly raw vegetables all the time. Eating processed foods will bring you right back to square one, further, how you prepare your vegetables will have a massive impact on how good for you they actually are, so you'll need to know a thing or two about cooking, over-cooked veg may fill you up, but they're nutritiously vacuous.

Add to that the fact that you'd need to be eating only organic vegetable produce in order to avoid any pesticide/herbicide residue and you've got only a narrow window of opportunity.

Also, due to the fragile nature of vegetable matter, they begin to loose their goodness the second they're picked, as they are cut off from the source. So they'd need to be eaten quickly (see later comment on environmental impact for further)

There's a lot of nutrients that are better sourced from meat and seafood, such as Iron and Omega 3 to name but two everyday essentials.

I also don't trust much American sources on fat consumption, given the American need to promote the growing of corn for that particular cash crop, a by-product of which is high fructose corn syrup, a much bigger cause of diabetes than any steak.

Vegetarians get enough protein

Vegetarian diets if they includes eggs and dairy produce can have a fair amount of protein, but these sources also contain a lot of dietary fat, not that fat is all that bad really, it's just the type and how much you consume that's the issue. There's also the question of intestinal upset, a diet high in legumes (one of the best sources of vegetable protein) can lead to some gassy consequences,

Too much protein is harmful

Too much of anything is harmful, you can find statistical data to show the same about carbs as you can about meat or any other thing.

A vegetarian diet is better for the environment

I don't see how exactly, I'm not stating that meat producing agriculture is better, but it most certainly is not worse.

The high production and introduction of nitrogenous fertilisers into the environment due to intensive vegetable and plant farming is having a massive impact on the environment wherever it is carried out. Soils are becoming acidified and land run off is causing dead zones in aquatic environments.

A population of vegetarians equal to or greater than omnivores would force the intensive farming of land, destroying wildlife habitats, and as this would be a "not in my backyard" kind of thing you'd be looking at (as is currently the case) shipping in a lot of vegetables and fruits from developing nations. Shipping itself at the moment causes more greenhouse gases than a lot of other industries combined. Add to that the fragile nature of the cargo and you'll have to ship a hell of a lot more than you need for just eating, to make sure that enough arrives on time and in sale worthy condition. These also have to be picked before ripening in order to ensure they aren't spoiled and they'd also have to be temperature controlled (more energy wasted).

Factory farms are unethical

Don't eat factory farmed meat.

Intensive vegetable agriculture is also unethical given the waste of land and the unfair price given to your average developing nation farmer, and the above mentioned aquatic dead zones and you have seriously unethical practice here too.

If we all went veg, what would happen to the existing livestock?

Vegetarian/Vegan Athletes

Omnivorous Athletes: Just about everyone else

Side: Steak
2 points

[Vegetarian diets are lower in fat and cholesterol] "if and only if you eat only fresh possibly raw vegetables all the time."

It's not an all or nothing deal. Even if you only did it 10 percent of the time, that's still a reduction in fat and cholesterol.

"How you prepare your vegetables will have a massive impact on how good for you they actually are"

It takes very little time to learn how to cook vegetables so that you get the most nutrition out of them. In fact, here is a super quick tutorial. Raw is best, baked is second best, steamed is 3rd, boiled is 4th, and leave the skins on when possible. Now that wasn't so difficult, was it? ;) Cooking meat degrades all the same vitamins as it does in vegetables.

You seem to be nitpicking trying to find any little thing to make a vegetarian diet look bad. Most of the arguments you presented apply to omnivores just as much as they do to vegetarians. What we really should be focusing on is the big question; What can people get from meat that vegetarians can't get from other foods. Below is a list of the vitamins and nutrients that are in meat. Under each one I've included a list of common foods that vegetarians can eat to get those vitamins. There are many other foods that could be listed, but I wanted to keep the post a reasonable size so I just listed ones that people commonly eat. Also keep in mind that people who are too lazy to eat a balanced diet can simply take a multi-vitamin or other supplement to get anything they are lacking.

Vitamin A

Just a single raw carrot contains over 300% of your daily vitamin A needs. A medium-sized baked sweet potato has over 400%. Other foods include breads, cereals, dried apricots, mangos, many dried herbs, cantaloupe, and numerous vegetables. Lacto-ovo vegetarians can get it from dairy products.

Vitamin B-1 (AKA Thiamin)

Beans, nuts, cereals, and many soy foods like veggie burgers, veggie meatballs, meatless bacon and other similar products.

Vitamin B-2 (AKA Riboflavin)

Breads, serials, soybeans, nuts, pretzels, english muffins, numerous vegetables, and dairy products if you are a lacto-ovo vegetarian.

Vitamin B-6*

Breads, cereals, nuts, seeds, beans, legumes, and numerous vegetables.

Vitamin B-12

Many cereals, energy bars, and vegetarian foods are fortified with B-12. Lacto-ovo vegetarians can get B-12 from dairy products.

Folate

Breads, flours, pastas, cornmeal, beans, nuts, legumes, white rice, and numerous fruits, vegetables. Many breakfast cereals have 100% of the RDA of folic acid in each serving.

Vitamin K

All the highest sources of vitamin K are vegetables. Meat has very low amounts of vitamin K.

Niacin

Breads, cereals, pasta, rice, nuts, and most fruits and vegetables. Lacto-ovo vegetarians can get it from dairy products.

Iron

Breads, cereals, some dried fruits, beans, lentils, dark leafy greens, and many fruits and vegetables.

Zinc

Nuts, seeds, beans, chocolate, oats, yogurt, brown rice, mushrooms, dried apricots, and many vegetables.

Omega-3

Breads, cereals, oats, flour, pasta, nuts, soy, dairy, eggs, many vegetables, and many types of oils.

Protein

Breads, cereals, oats, beans, nuts, seeds, flour, pasta, nuts, soy, dairy, eggs, white rice, many vegetables, and some fruits.

"We need only 2.5 to 11% of our calories from protein. It's nearly impossible to fail to get enough protein." This website has detailed info on protein and includes sources to all the studies they used http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/protein.html

"Add to that the fact that you'd need to be eating only organic vegetable produce in order to avoid any pesticide/herbicide residue"

This problem is not unique to vegetarians, omnivores face the same problem because they eat vegetables too. I haven't done any research on the effects of pesticide/herbicide residue, so I don't know if it's even something to be concerned about. If it was a real problem I would think the FDA or EPA would say something. If you know of any reputable studies that indicate it's a problem I'll check them out.

"Also, due to the fragile nature of vegetable matter, they begin to loose their goodness the second they're picked, as they are cut off from the source."

The same applies to meat, plus omnivores eat vegetables too so that argument applies to them too.

"There's a lot of nutrients that are better sourced from meat and seafood, such as Iron and Omega 3 to name but two everyday essentials."

There's a lot of nutrients that are better sourced from fruit and vegetables. Just because there is a better source, doesn't mean it's the only source.

"I also don't trust much American sources on fat consumption..."

Here is one from Australia http://ajl.sagepub.com/content/6/3/250.refs

Here is one from Oxford University in the UK http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/3/525s.full

Here is one from Cambridge University in the UK http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid;=795568

"Too much of anything is harmful..."

I agree, but the reason I pointed it out is because "It's been estimated that the average person in this country eats two - six times more protein, usually from animals, than is needed for good nutrition." So, clearly they are getting too much.

"I don't see how exactly, I'm not stating that meat producing agriculture is better, but it most certainly is not worse."

That report has all the details.

Consider this. One cow will feed approximately 533 people one meal. Beef cows are usually slaughtered when they are somewhere between 3 to 5 years old. Cattle eat 20 to 30 lbs. of food a day.

So if we take the lowest of those figures, a single cow will eat 21900 lbs of food in its life. If we take look at the higher figures the cow will have eaten 57750 lbs of food. That averages out to 39825 lbs. A cow has about 400 lbs of usable meat. That means it takes 39825 pounds of food to produce just 400 pounds of food, which will only feed 533 people one meal. Just think of how many people could have been fed with 39825 pounds of food if those farms were used to produce crops for people.

At least 50% of our crops are used to feed livestock. Remember that just one cow eats 39825 lbs of food in its lifetime. That's a lot of farmland just for one animal. So think about all those environmental concerns you mentioned about growing crops, and then consider how much of that is from growing crops to feed the animals. Keep in mind that we haven't even touched on how much food it takes to raise other animals like pigs, chicken, sheep, turkeys, etc.

"In a 2009 Californian study comparing the environmental effects of vegetarian versus non-vegetarian diets, the researchers sought to answer this question and elaborate upon it by asking, “Does animal consumption create a heavier footprint than a vegetarian diet?” and “If so, what are some of the major environmental effects of an animal-based diet, and how might these be measured?”  They found that a non-vegetarian diet consumed 2.9 times more water, 2.5 times more primary energy, 13 times more fertilizer, and 1.4 times more pesticide than a vegetarian diet. These statistics suggest that vegetarian diets are, in fact, less taxing on the environment. These researchers support the notion that increased environmental degradation is a byproduct of increased agricultural output. Modern agriculture has prioritized optimum crop yields and animal farming to the detriment of the environment via increased energy output, use of natural resources, and generation of waste. An Italian study presented in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition that specifically evaluated the environmental impact of omnivorous and vegetarian/vegan diets based on both non-organic and organic products as six separate dietary patterns in addition to a “normal” or average Italian diet produced similar results.  Again, the researchers concluded that meat-based diets strain the environment the most and found that water consumption, in particular, plays the most significant role by accounting for 41-46% of the overall impact."

"Intensive vegetable agriculture is also unethical given the waste of land and the unfair price given to your average developing nation farmer, and the above mentioned aquatic dead zones and you have seriously unethical practice here too."

Unfortunately, there is no perfect system for food production, but the research clearly shows that the damage done by raising animals for food is much worse than growing plants.

"If we all went veg, what would happen to the existing livestock?"

It's not like everyone is suddenly going to go vegetarian leaving us with millions of homeless animals. It would be slow process and most the animals will probably be eaten. The rest would be set free to roam the countryside. I'm not sure what the ideal solution would be, but I think almost anything would be better than the miserable life they have now.

"Omnivorous Athletes: Just about everyone else"

You missed the point. I listed those people to show that it is possible to be a vegetarian and be healthy.

Conclusion

I'm not saying everyone on the planet should become a vegetarian, although I would be happy if they did. Remember, the topic of this debate is "Is Vegetarianism foolish?" I think I've provided sufficient evidence to show that it is not foolish. It may not be for everyone, but it is certainly not foolish.

Side: Salad
Julius(201) Disputed
1 point

But still, isn't it kinda foolish not to eat meat just for health? I get it if you don't like the taste, or if you can't for X reason(x being anything.)

Side: Steak
2 points

Why is it foolish to want to be healthy?

I personally don't eat meat because of ethical reasons. The health benefits are just a plus. I just can't see any justification for treating animals so poorly when there is plenty of other healthier stuff to eat that doesn't require killing something that feels pain and emotion. Just because something is less intelligent than us doesn't mean it's okay to treat it inhumanely. If low intelligence is what determines what we can kill, then I think there are quite a few people on this website who should be fearing for their lives right now :)

Side: Salad
1 point

It is foolish, downright stupid, if to ask me. Not eating meat is unhealthy. If a person wants to live a life as healthy as possible then meat is necessary.

Side: Steak
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
0 points

There's many long term issues with vegetarianism, not eating meat does not help you in any way.

Side: Steak
2 points

A vegetarian diet has more fiber and less of the harmful substances present in non-vegetarian diets.

Furthermore, it is healthier towards the environment.

It is also tasty and healthier for the body.

Side: Salad
Julius(201) Disputed
1 point

Pesticides. Must I say more?.............(Add ALL the random dots just to make my thing long enough!)

Side: Steak
judgemaster(265) Disputed
2 points

Pests are no good.

They harm our environment.

Thus, pesiticides, in limited quantities, are good.

Side: Salad

I've been a vegetarian for 18 years and haven't had any major health problems. I'm able to survive and stay healthy without killing animals that feel pain and fear, so I don't see how that could be considered foolish.

Side: Salad
1 point

8 billion animals a killed yearly in the USA alone for meat. There are 6 billion human beings on the planet

Side: Salad
1 point

Humans evolved from simians, most simians are vegetarians

Side: Salad
1 point

I am not a vegetarian for i have to eat whatever is put in front of me or no candy after. when i get to choose my food I shall choose salad.

Side: Salad
1 point

I am not a vegertarian myself, but in genral, vegertarians are fitter and healtheir than us who eat meat.

Side: Salad

Being a vegetarian is a healthy choice. Eating the vegetables that you like will help you overcome your hunger.

Side: Salad