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If humans created artificial intelligence would humans then be Gods?
AIs that can spread and reproduce on their own. Can advance itself, essentially meaning it can evolve. Would humans in that scenario be considered Gods?
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I myself wouldn't consider us as Gods. I intended this debate mainly for the religious, to see what they have to say about something like this. The creating of something intelligent and fully capable of "living" and surviving, and (yeah, I know, they deny it... a lot of them at least) evolving (all that is different from our perspective of "life" but still the same, simply different). The creation of that - something the religious seem to claim only God can do. And if humans did the same, what would they say then? It is my first debate... Should I add this up there? Well, in the religious aspects, no, we would not be Gods. For the sake of the argument. Lets pretend God is real. He supposedly created planets out of nothing, and created loving, angry, shameful, happy life out of it all. Completely original. If man kind were to do it, it would be because he is intelligent enough to do so. There is nothing Godly about it! 3
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No. We define Gods as being all powerful. Humans are not all powerful just because the natural process of evolution may apply to some artificial intelligence we may create. No matter what we do, we are slaves to nature. Nature causes us to develop. Nature causes us to develop technology. And if our technology develops on it's own, without our intervention, then that will mean it was just another act of nature. I dont think. Its like, entities who create 'life' as we know it are called 'Gods'. Artificail intelligence is something that we dream and design within the limitations of our existing resources whereas, God as we know, did create all what we see from nothing (so says the Bible, I dont think there is any other books that doesnt have a claim any different from this) We inturn was created by something more powerful, then how can we create something less superior that ourself by resources that is not ours and still call us Gods? 2
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It would just depend on what exactly you mean by 'God' as definitions vary. according to me, unless the human (only the creator not every human) cared for and took the responsibility for her/his creation, no that person does not become god it also depends on how the created responds I don't think we should be considered Gods or gods. Just creating something that is artificially intelligent really doesn't mean anything. It would be more meaningful if we discovered how to create life from the primordial soup. Either way, it is only using things we have been giveth, not being the creator of something from nothing. 2
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Okay, I'll follow your "logic". God created humans then humans created "programs" that could think for themselves, just like humans can think, and when given the necessary tools also spread, survive, and advance themselves. In that scenario, when exactly did God create artificial intelligence? Or are you saying everything that humans create is created by God? 2
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I don't really know what how to epress myself on this one. Im not saying something is the right answer and something its the wrong one, this is just what I believe. I believe that God puts minds in our heads. I don't think we think by our selves. I believe God created thoughts.. you know ? can you follow me? :p I know this is weird. But I believe that those who made a useful tool, did it by themselves, but I think God like.. put the ideas in their heads. You understand? I don't think we think by our selves. I believe God created thoughts.. you know ? That pretty much says we are all God, or just an extension of God. I definitely am not one. Why would he say he does not exist? Because I say he does not exist. But I believe that those who made a useful tool, did it by themselves, but I think God like.. put the ideas in their heads. They didn't exactly make it themselves then, otherwise they'd have to come up with it themselves also, not only do the physical part. 1
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That pretty much says we are all God, or just an extension of God. I definitely am not one. Why would he say he does not exist? Because I say he does not exist. No we're not all gods, or at least I don't believe so. I don't really understand this tho. Who is saying he dosen't exist? God? Cause I don't remember him saying that in the bible (to be clear Im a christian, and thats the God Im talking about, I don't know wich God your referring to) They didn't exactly make it themselves then, otherwise they'd have to come up with it themselves also, not only do the physical part. Yeah Im not really sure of what exactly Im trying to say, but yeah I think these useful tools we have are created by God, as he puts ideas in our heads, and then we can use them in a useful way. So I believe God created the idea and the ingredients we use to make the idea become a thing. Then humans do the rest. I don't really understand this tho. Who is saying he dosen't exist? You said he "puts thoughts into out minds". So when I say he does not exist then he is the one putting that thought into my mind, basically he himself is saying he does not exist. I don't know wich God your referring to Any God you are referring to. Yeah Im not really sure of what exactly Im trying to say, but yeah I think these useful tools we have are created by God, as he puts ideas in our heads, and then we can use them in a useful way. Why put the ideas in our heads if he should have the power to just create them? It can't be so because we "learn" from it, to learn it we should have to come up with all those ideas ourselves. And so we could use them ourselves? First he puts the ideas in our heads and then he puts the thoughts of using them in our heads. So we ourselves can't really do anything? Then humans do the rest. All thoughts come from God and thus the rest is simply the physical part. So we are just pointless tools who would have no mind without God? And all the rest we do comes from his putting those thoughts into our heads? 1
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You said he "puts thoughts into out minds". So when I say he does not exist then he is the one putting that thought into my mind, basically he himself is saying he does not exist. Well with thoughts I meant ideas. We still have the right to believe what we do :) Why put the ideas in our heads if he should have the power to just create them? It can't be so because we "learn" from it, to learn it we should have to come up with all those ideas ourselves. And so we could use them ourselves? First he puts the ideas in our heads and then he puts the thoughts of using them in our heads. So we ourselves can't really do anything? So we ourselves can't really do anything? Exactly, I believe without God, we're useless. But we still have freedom. We can believe what we want, but I think God gives us a little help by putting ideas in our heads. I often think "how did I come up with that"? like when you're doing something, dosen't have to be an intelligent thing or anything. Just like doing homework, and you don't know what to write about, then God helps us a little bit with putting ideas in our heads... you see what I mean?? I find myself very ununderstandable, I don't know if you get anything Im saying. Well with thoughts I meant ideas. We still have the right to believe what we do And where came the idea to believe? Exactly, I believe without God, we're useless. So, if he left we would just drop down, dead, since our brain is largely responsible for our organs' jobs. Or is that not a part of the mind? We can believe what we want, but I think God gives us a little help by putting ideas in our heads. A little help? If we are capable of thinking for ourselves then why help us? Why not let us do it ourselves? There is also so much "suffering" (part of life really), why not help with that? I often think "how did I come up with that"? like when you're doing something, dosen't have to be an intelligent thing or anything. Just like doing homework, and you don't know what to write about, then God helps us a little bit with putting ideas in our heads... I know very well what you mean. After all, I wrote a first draft of a 20 thousand word fantasy story, without basing it on other stories (at least not consciously). It is our subconscious that makes us able to come up with things apparently out of nowhere, and it can be trained very effectively, mine has developed quite a lot with creative writing and creative thinking. You think of something and the subconscious makes the necessary connections (based on the already available knowledge in the mind, but there's more than just using stored knowledge), and the precision can be improved by thinking, solving problems. Mind is like a computer where you can create all kinds of pictures, objects of many "dimensions", even abstract - things that don't really make sense at all - things that are not based on anything you have previously perceived. That is what makes our mind "special", the coming up with stuff that makes no sense at all, things that are in reality impossible. And religion is up that alley - everything must come from something; you cannot create something out of nothing. 1
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And where came the idea to believe? Our religion wasn't an idea. Jesus died on the cross, and there were eyewitnesses. And he tod his diciples to go out to the world and tell the world about him. So, if he left we would just drop down, dead, since our brain is largely responsible for our organs' jobs. Or is that not a part of the mind? No, God isn't controling our organ brain, but our mind. He isn't even controling our mind, hes just adding some features .. ideas or whatever. What would happen if God left I will not answer, because God says in the bible, that he will never leave us. Therefore he isn't telling us what would happen if he does. A little help? If we are capable of thinking for ourselves then why help us? Why not let us do it ourselves? There is also so much "suffering" (part of life really), why not help with that? Obviously we need help. We don't have a clue about anything. Imagine the first people on earth. How did people find out the earth was shaped like a ball? I believe its because God puts ideas in our head, and gives us a helping hand. The suffering part?? If humans never experience pain and uphill battles and war, then we wouldn't notice or appreciate peace and all other good stuff. That is what makes our mind "special", the coming up with stuff that makes no sense at all, things that are in reality impossible. And religion is up that alley - everything must come from something; you cannot create something out of nothing. Yeah I totally agree with you. Its just different how people tend to think were that 'something' comes from. I assume you're not a christian (just what I asumed, I have no idea what your religion is) but what do you believe? And if you don't want to share your belief I totally understand. Our religion wasn't an idea. Then how did we come up with it? First you need an idea, to build a tool, as you yourself said. This is exactly the same only this tool is not physical. Jesus died on the cross, and there were eyewitnesses. And he tod his diciples to go out to the world and tell the world about him. There have been so many others who have died on the cross. Should they also have told their disciples or close ones to go spread their word, tell about them? People die, some of very cruel means. But that is all there is to it. No, God isn't controling our organ brain, but our mind. He isn't even controling our mind, hes just adding some features .. ideas or whatever. Our mind is what makes us us. Are you saying that God makes us different from the other animals by giving us intelligence? So if he were to leave we would lose that and become like other animals? If so then there is a huge problem, if we were to become "animals" we would have no advantage against others. Our hands, feet, teeth, noses, eyes, ears, and everything else is not for savage hunting or eating, they aren't effective against predators. They are for precision, to be able to build things that aid us. If we were to be put to an animalistic state, we would die off easily. Point is why aren't other animals weak like us? Why can they survive so well without intelligence? If our's were to be taken away why couldn't we survive as well? Why not make us good at both, in case the other way should prove necessary? What would happen if God left I will not answer, because God says in the bible, that he will never leave us. Therefore he isn't telling us what would happen if he does. How can you know what is said in the bible is not the same as is my 20 thousand word fantasy story - just a story written by humans, made up by humans, simply very long ago? Obviously we need help. We don't have a clue about anything. If he created us why would he not create us into a state where we need no help? Helping us seems like a lot of wasting time since he is considered omnipotent. And why "he"? Why not it? Or she? How did people find out the earth was shaped like a ball? The first depictions of Earth were flat, or some land on a turtle that was on whale, or... you get the point? Earth's real shape was found out by calculations and logic. Why would he put the ideas of Earth being flat or on a turtle into our heads, if he later put the truth into our heads? Why not go with truth right from the beginning? I believe its because God puts ideas in our head, and gives us a helping hand. There are murderers, serial killers, rapists. He puts those ideas into their heads also? If all he wants to do to us is "help" us? I fail to see how that is helping. Helping toward what exactly? If humans never experience pain and uphill battles and war, then we wouldn't notice or appreciate peace and all other good stuff. Are you saying we can't know that war is bad unless we have experienced it? Unless we experience it over and over again? Who put the idea of wars into our heads? Who put the idea of "good" and "bad" into our heads? The idea of peace into our heads? It's all a matter of interpretation, peace could easily be considered bad if things had gone differently, if our values had been different long ago. If he had created things differently then there would be no need for all that misery. Why pick these specific "laws"? what do you believe? Anything that has definite evidence supporting it, and if there is none of that then the biggest probability (a reasoning process of what makes the most sense), until the probability is proven false or true with evidence, or until I notice some flaws in my previous "reasoning process". Religions make no sense because there are so many fundamental flaws. 1
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You are taking words out of my mouth, that I never intended to say. Then how did we come up with it? First you need an idea, to build a tool, as you yourself said. This is exactly the same only this tool is not physical. I just told you how, Jesus died on the cross. It wasn't like all the other people who died on a cross. His death was special. If you read about it in the bible, in the first 4 books of the new testament. Also alot of other books, including prophesies of the son of God. His death on the cross was nothing like anything else happened before. Our mind is what makes us us. Are you saying that God makes us different from the other animals by giving us intelligence? So if he were to leave we would lose that and become like other animals? If so then there is a huge problem, if we were to become "animals" we would have no advantage against others. Our hands, feet, teeth, noses, eyes, ears, and everything else is not for savage hunting or eating, they aren't effective against predators. They are for precision, to be able to build things that aid us. If we were to be put to an animalistic state, we would die off easily. Point is why aren't other animals weak like us? Why can they survive so well without intelligence? If our's were to be taken away why couldn't we survive as well? Why not make us good at both, in case the other way should prove necessary? Again, I will not consider how life would be if God left.. if God left, then nothing. then everythings over. BC God says, that he leads us to the right path in life, he is truth and he is life. So no good, none of these things either. And yes, God did make us different from animals. He says so in the bible himself. How can you know what is said in the bible is not the same as is my 20 thousand word fantasy story - just a story written by humans, made up by humans, simply very long ago? I can't know anything. I just believe. If he created us why would he not create us into a state where we need no help? Helping us seems like a lot of wasting time since he is considered omnipotent. And why "he"? Why not it? Or she? If he created us as a creature needing no help, then we wouldn't seek him, we would be fine on our own. I talk about God as a 'He' bc thats what the bible does. God is none-gender .. or in other words. He isn't human, so he isn't male or female. You understand? The 'He' is something those who wrote the bible made up, not God. Earth's real shape was found out by calculations and logic. Why would he put the ideas of Earth being flat or on a turtle into our heads, if he later put the truth into our heads? Why not go with truth right from the beginning? God invented science, logic and math. He gave us the ability to discover things on our own, using these equipments. Why we thought the earth was flat? Well that I can answer, but everything happens for a reason, and I believe that did too. There are murderers, serial killers, rapists. He puts those ideas into their heads also? If all he wants to do to us is "help" us? I fail to see how that is helping. Helping toward what exactly? No silly, he does not put ideas like that in our heads, or at least I don't think so. You know, when you believe in a God, you also have to believe in Satan, some of the christians don't, but I don't think they should be calling themselves christians.. but whatever. Satan can take over a human, if the human lets him murderers, serial killers and rapists might be one of those. You understand me? Have you ever heard the story of Emily Rose? It was a catholic young girl hundreds of years ago (and this one is really true) She got haunted by demons (its a movie, and a book too I think, but I haven't read nor watched the movie, Im too afraid, bc my family tells me it is not a very good experience) She was a believer, but then suddenly something came in her soul, that made her become a horrible monster, when the demon took over, but when she was back she was normal. Emily Rose got to make a choice, or God let her make a choice. She could die at the moment and live with him, or she could keep on living and be beaten by the demon, and make thousands of people to believe in God by telling her story. She chosed the second thing, the demon killed her, but before that she wrote a book, telling her story, and it is still being told. The thing is, God didn't let bad things happen to us. Only our body. Our body we don't need, bc in not so long, we're gonna leave it and go live wih him. Are you saying we can't know that war is bad unless we have experienced it? Unless we experience it over and over again? Who put the idea of wars into our heads? Who put the idea of "good" and "bad" into our heads? The idea of peace into our heads? It's all a matter of interpretation, peace could easily be considered bad if things had gone differently, if our values had been different long ago. If he had created things differently then there would be no need for all that misery. Why pick these specific "laws"? No that is sertainly not what Im saying. I say we can't know what peace is, unless we know what war is. We can't know what love is unless we discover pain, not physical pain, but you know mental pain? Like someone breaking up with you. Gods love is imortal and so big it can cover all the 7 billion people on earth, and if there should be some creatures in another planet or galaxy, he'll cover that too. He wants us to see how great his love is, and we can't unless we've had some bad moments in our life. And also, if the world was painfree, warfree, no death, negativityfree... everything that we consider as bad, if that was gone, then why should be bother coming to live in a better place, when we're already living in a paradise? God didn't make the world for us to live in, he made the world for a short visit. Heaven is the place we belong to, and up there is pure joy. His death on the cross was nothing like anything else happened before. Was he the first one to die on a cross? So if someone is the first to die on Mars then there will come to be another religion? Nothing special about any of it. Someone simply died a gruesome death, or different way from most, that's all there is to it. BC God says, that he leads us to the right path in life, he is truth and he is life. And those are what exactly, the right path, the truth? Why not just tell us? And yes, God did make us different from animals. Why? What would be the point? He says so in the bible himself. As I said before, I have a 20 thousand word fantasy story that I wrote myself. How can you know people back then did not do exactly the same? There is no proof that they did or didn't, making it in reality false to claim either of them to be true. But through reasoning it inclines heavily toward simply being a fantasy story, just a story, nothing else. I can't know anything. I just believe. That's pretty much the point. There is no evidence to either, yet it inclines toward it all being made up by humans, and people "believe" it, they take it as something that really happened and how things really are. If he created us as a creature needing no help, then we wouldn't seek him, we would be fine on our own. In what way would that be bad? If we would be allowed to develop on our own? (as in reality it is but...) I talk about God as a 'He' bc thats what the bible does. How can you know what the bible says is true? God is none-gender .. or in other words. He isn't human, so he isn't male or female. You understand? I understand. So the more appropriate word would be "it", when referring to "him". The 'He' is something those who wrote the bible made up, not God. Exactly, made up. If something there is made up why would not the whole thing be? Something as "important" as the bible... I fail to see how god would have condoned mistakes in it, since it is regarded as "his" words. Making some things up while writing it would automatically make the whole thing as untrustworthy. God invented science, logic and math. All those come from abstract thought. The ability to make up untruths and then test them against reality. The testing against reality, they never did that with religion. but everything happens for a reason, and I believe that did too. What would the reason be? If there is no evidence to any of it it is false to regard it as real. No silly, he does not put ideas like that in our heads, or at least I don't think so. You said that God puts ideas in our heads. That means ALL ideas, not just good and positive ones. Ideas are ideas. you also have to believe in Satan, Where did he come from? God created? And who puts ideas into his head? God created him to be able to think and come up with ideas completely on his own? Why not do the same with humans? Have you ever heard the story of Emily Rose? It was a catholic young girl hundreds of years ago (and this one is really true) She got haunted by demons (its a movie, and a book too I think, but I haven't read nor watched the movie, Im too afraid, bc my family tells me it is not a very good experience) She was a believer, but then suddenly something came in her soul, that made her become a horrible monster, when the demon took over, but when she was back she was normal. Hundreds of years ago when people as a whole were very stupid and believed everything the priests and popes and that kind told them. Makes it not true but very much a lie. Still, no evidence whether it is true or not, but when to look at the facts that are there, about people, what is far more probable, it inclines very heavily toward a lie. Emily Rose got to make a choice, or God let her make a choice. She could die at the moment and live with him, or she could keep on living and be beaten by the demon, and make thousands of people to believe in God by telling her story. If God can put ideas and thoughts in our heads then why would all that be necessary? Unless it is all made up by religious people, all a lie. The thing is, God didn't let bad things happen to us. Only our body. Then why are there mentally insane people? Are their thoughts also from God? I thought he was here to help us. I say we can't know what peace is, unless we know what war is. We could easily think something up before making it a reality. Science, for example. They make think up theories and then test them, whether they are true or not, and many have proven to be true. We can know what it is before doing it. We can't know what love is unless we discover pain, not physical pain, but you know mental pain? Like someone breaking up with you. We don't have to discover pain to know what love is. We can have love before pain, in fact pain is not even necessary to know what love is. If you receive mental pain then you find out what that is, not what love is. Gods love is imortal and so big it can cover all the 7 billion people on earth, and if there should be some creatures in another planet or galaxy, he'll cover that too. So humans are not the special ones? He has other toys to play with? Goes against true religion, does it not? Or as we discover more we add to the supposed "word of god", making it all false by our own adding things to it. If it is no longer the original version, which it hasn't been a very long time, it is no longer valid because it no longer includes only the words of god. He wants us to see how great his love is, and we can't unless we've had some bad moments in our life. By receiving bad moments how exactly can you feel his love? Are you saying his love means hurting us? Then why help us with other things if he could not help us and thus make us hurt even more and thus show his love even more? I've had bad moments... and there is no god. And also, if the world was painfree, warfree, no death, negativityfree... everything that we consider as bad, if that was gone, then why should be bother coming to live in a better place, when we're already living in a paradise? Isn't paradise what we are reaching toward? The point of everything we do? Why not skip the struggle and just give it to us if eventually we will, or at least should, get there anyway? God didn't make the world for us to live in, he made the world for a short visit. What is the point of a short visit? To have time for pointless games? To have some personal fun? Heaven is the place we belong to, and up there is pure joy. If we belong there why aren't we there? Pure joy? And how can you know that never having been there? Not to mention there is no evidence whether it exists or not, but again inclines heavily toward not existing. 1
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Im really tired of this thing, you're not reading my argument probertly. No Jesus was not the first one who died on a cross, when did I ever say that? The right path, truth and life can't be shown by people. It has to be shown by God. If you want to find the path don't ask me, ask God, read the bible, and pray, ask for answers. You're asking me like I know everything about this, I don't. Wanna know God? Get to know him, not me. The point in making us different from animals is bc God created us special. Animals aree not in heaven. Animals can't believe, or at least I don't think they can. I don't know a specific reason why we're special, but thats just how God made us. As I said before, I have a 20 thousand word fantasy story that I wrote myself. How can you know people back then did not do exactly the same? There is no proof that they did or didn't, making it in reality false to claim either of them to be true. But through reasoning it inclines heavily toward simply being a fantasy story, just a story, nothing else and That's pretty much the point. There is no evidence to either, yet it inclines toward it all being made up by humans, and people "believe" it, they take it as something that really happened and how things really are. AGAIN!!! I believe... I don't look at logic, I just beleive.. so please stop mixing this up, its confusing me. Fantasy? you say the bible is fantasy, I don't think so. And yeah, I believe the bible is true, that those stories in it are true. again, I don't look at what 'scientist' say, God is my scientist. Have you read the bible? because I don't really know if we can dicuss a book you haven't read. I know the discussion is about artificial intelligence, but we kinda got on the wrong track here. In what way would that be bad? If we would be allowed to develop on our own? (as in reality it is but...) that would be bad in every way. We're pointless without Gods love. How can you know what the bible says is true? Please stop asking me questions like 'how can you know' .. I can't know. I believe, is it in there yet?! Or shall I say it one more time? I BELIEVE..! i don't know. I understand. So the more appropriate word would be "it", when referring to "him". No, he's not a thing either. Usually when we say he,she or it, we're talking about another person or a thing. God isn't a person nor a thing. Exactly, made up. If something there is made up why would not the whole thing be? Something as "important" as the bible... I fail to see how god would have condoned mistakes in it, since it is regarded as "his" words. Making some things up while writing it would automatically make the whole thing as untrustworthy. If you cared to read the bible, you'd see, that not everything in there is Gods words. There are book called Ruth, Jeremia, Esther, Job .. and all kinds of names. There are also letters. Since english is not my mother language, I don't know all the names of the bible in english. But you can look for yourself. The bible is not untrustworthy, bc the bible clearly says when God is speaking, and when he's not. So we all know, whats Gods word, and whats some person's word. All those come from abstract thought. The ability to make up untruths and then test them against reality. The testing against reality, they never did that with religion. I don't understand what you're saying here. What I meant was, that God made the human brain, therefore he made our ideas, our thoughts.. whatever we think of, God thought it first, whatever we just found out, God found it first. What would the reason be? If there is no evidence to any of it it is false to regard it as real. I don't know the reason, ask God. I don't know what kinda evidence you're talking about here. Let me make something clear. I believe God made the universe, but I also believe in evolution. I think God created evolution. So thos calculate stuff proving that God never was, is just proving that God really WAS.. he created evulotion. I don't believe that god just sat there and like decorating a chirstmas tree, he was decorating the universe. No, he made it awesome for the human being to explore. Then he made some animals to make the earth a nice place to live in, and then the human to rule the earth. You said that God puts ideas in our heads. That means ALL ideas, not just good and positive ones. Ideas are ideas. and Where did he come from? God created? And who puts ideas into his head? God created him to be able to think and come up with ideas completely on his own? Why not do the same with humans? No, that God puts ideas in our heads does not mean ALL ideas. Satan was created by God, satan was Gods angle, and was very faithful to him. But then Satan wanted to BE God, and then God threw him out of Heaven, and made him another place called hell. What happens on earth is not pretty, its very ugly, our world is not a safe place to live. We just have to keep the spirit up, by remembering that soon we'll live together with him. God made the earth a terrible place, to make us look forward to be living with him. Hundreds of years ago when people as a whole were very stupid and believed everything the priests and popes and that kind told them. Makes it not true but very much a lie. Still, no evidence whether it is true or not, but when to look at the facts that are there, about people, what is far more probable, it inclines very heavily toward a lie. I was not trying to get you to believe, or think its true. I just told you why some are having a hard time. Nonebelivers often ask me, why God made the earth so horrible, if he's the ultimate love. Its just becouse then we see his love more powerfull than ever, the third world is suffering, their bodies are suffering, but they'll soon live with Him. Hundreds of years ago when people as a whole were very stupid and believed everything the priests and popes and that kind told them. Makes it not true but very much a lie. Still, no evidence whether it is true or not, but when to look at the facts that are there, about people, what is far more probable, it inclines very heavily toward a lie. I don't know, ask God. Then why are there mentally insane people? Are their thoughts also from God? I thought he was here to help us. mentally insane people are said to have a mental disease, but if you look closer, its always something in the brain that makes them crazy. Therefore, its gone when they leave their body. Just look a schizophrenia (I can't spell it) its caused when people have a too high dopamin in their brain. It causes them to hallucinate or what its called. Some people become insane by some bad experiences, like rape or torture. Those memories will all fade away when we leave our body. We could easily think something up before making it a reality. Science, for example. They make think up theories and then test them, whether they are true or not, and many have proven to be true. We can know what it is before doing it. proven by who? Human? .. You can stop with all those logical things when debatin with a christian. We don't believe in what you call evedence. We don't have to discover pain to know what love is. We can have love before pain, in fact pain is not even necessary to know what love is. If you receive mental pain then you find out what that is, not what love is. so you're telling me, that if you're life was like paradise. No death, no war, no pain .. nothing bad just heaven, that you'd go around and think ,,God Im glad for being so loved?" I don't think you would, cuz you'd have no idea what love is. You've never experienced not having it, and then it becomes a normal thing for you, a thing you don't notice. Like myself, I've never discovered to be hungry. I mean hungry like the third world is. I always have food in my fridge, and if there isn't any, I can go buy it. If I don't have any money I get money from the government, cuz in my countrey, if you can't afford food, you get help from the governemnt. So I never experienced being really hungry, and therefore I don't know the feeling of being starved. I don't appreicate the food in my fridge. Why should I ? Its always there. So humans are not the special ones? He has other toys to play with? Goes against true religion, does it not? Or as we discover more we add to the supposed "word of god", making it all false by our own adding things to it. If it is no longer the original version, which it hasn't been a very long time, it is no longer valid because it no longer includes only the words of god. Yes humans are special, god says so in the bible. But who's saying that we're the only humans existing? And no, if there was other people elsewhere, God would go against true religion if he DIDN'T take care of them too. Our own addings? The main source is, that if you believe in God, Jesus and the holy spirit, you are saved. Everything else.. we can never really know who's right. Is it the jehova witnesse? the amish? the babtists? .. there are millions of opinion on this. But the ones who call themselves 'chirstian' (wich cover a lot of religions) they have the same main believe. By receiving bad moments how exactly can you feel his love? Are you saying his love means hurting us? Then why help us with other things if he could not help us and thus make us hurt even more and thus show his love even more? I've had bad moments... and there is no god. Yes you had God every way through.. You just don't believe it. Love don't mean hurt, hurt oftens leads to love and love often leads to be left hurten. But not by God. sn't paradise what we are reaching toward? The point of everything we do? Why not skip the struggle and just give it to us if eventually we will, or at least should, get there anyway? the difference between my thought of paradise and yours is, that you think you can make a paradise of this piece of crap we live in right now. I think the paradise already excists, and its just waiting for me&you;. What is the point of a short visit? To have time for pointless games? To have some personal fun? Yes kind of.. but mostly becouse God didn't want to FORCE us to live with him in Heaven, he wanted to give us a choice, by letting us live here. If we belong there why aren't we there? Pure joy? And how can you know that never having been there? Not to mention there is no evidence whether it exists or not, but again inclines heavily toward not existing. We aren't there YET, we're going there. Or at least I am :p If you are that is up to you :) And if you ask ONE more time how I can know something I will cut your head of :p just kidding :) I believe.. thats just it. Evedence? I have enough evidence.. The bible :) Im really tired of this thing, It is getting kinda long. I still hope you read it through. you're not reading my argument probertly. Oh, I read 'em properly... No Jesus was not the first one who died on a cross, when did I ever say that? Then what made his death so special if it wasn't special? He was just a man, like everyone else, right? It has to be shown by God. So why ain't he showing it to any of us? If you want to find the path don't ask me, ask God, I would, if he existed in the first place. read the bible I'd rather write a story myself and read that... Or pick any modern fantasy novel. and pray, Yeah, I don't waste my time with that, I'd rather do than wait and wait and wait, till I die. ask for answers. There isn't really anyone who has the answers. One has to come up with them oneself. Or ask someone and consider if they are true for that person. You're asking me like I know everything about this, I don't. Wanna know God? Get to know him, not me. I'm asking you because you claim all these things and yet you don't know anything, and you can't know because there is no evidence, only probability that inclines toward all of it being a lie. Getting to know someone who doesn't exist is rather impossible. The point in making us different from animals is bc God created us special. Animals aree not in heaven. Animals can't believe, or at least I don't think they can. Why make us different in the first place? It makes no sense. Unless we evolved, and that means God did not create us. Heaven? All inclines toward it not existing. I don't know a specific reason why we're special, but thats just how God made us. How can you know he made us? The only evidence to our coming to be is evolution and that rules out our creation by God. I don't look at logic, I just beleive. Blind faith is never a good thing. Very many examples throughout history. so please stop mixing this up, its confusing me. The reason it is confusing to you is because you are seeing that some things just don't make sense and, unfortunately, you are resisting them, denying them. I simply replied to your comments with logical thinking and the result is that religion does not make sense. Fantasy? you say the bible is fantasy, I don't think so. Fantasy is, essentially, the thinking up of things that have no real evidence whether they exist or not, or whether they are possible in the real world. I know, I wrote a fantasy story. And the bible has zero evidence. Have you read the bible? because I don't really know if we can dicuss a book you haven't read. I haven't read it but I have seen plenty of movies, series, even games that have references to that book, plus I've heard some things in school and from other people, and read on the internet. I know enough about it. It is just a fantasy book and a bad one at that, nothing more. I know the discussion is about artificial intelligence, but we kinda got on the wrong track here. Yeah it did, but I don't mind. that would be bad in every way. We're pointless without Gods love. That's because in reality nothing has a meaning. That means everyone is free to pick a meaning, any meaning, for themselves, and adhering to religion is a very poor one. You could take one similar to mine (I can't see anything negative about it). "To be useful for humanity in some manner and at the same time have some 'fun'." That's true for me presently, although I could change it any moment. I BELIEVE.. i don't know. That's the problem. You believe something you don't know. You trust something you don't know, and can never know. This might be because it gives you a purpose. After I chose a purpose for myself my confidence, in everything, rose significantly and hasn't declined since. A purpose is needed to keep on going, without it there is really no point for anything. But having religion, and what that says, as one is very bad. I would suggest picking one yourself, one not influenced by religion. The bible is not untrustworthy, bc the bible clearly says when God is speaking, and when he's not. It's called dialogue, or monologue. I know, I've written plenty myself. What I meant was, that God made the human brain I believe God made the universe, but I also believe in evolution. I think God created evolution. Then he made some animals to make the earth a nice place to live in, and then the human to rule the earth. You just said God created evolution. Then you said he created our brains, that goes against evolution. Our brains have evolved, as have we and as has all other life on Earth, from first micro-organisms that emerged on Earth. Then you say he created all of it. It's either one of them or neither. (Go for evolution, seriously. Creation makes very little sense because that's all it says - they were created. Believing creationism is being lazy and stupid.) If he created evolution why create animals and humans if all that would evolve anyway? To speed up the process? Then why not skip everything and go straight for creating a paradise, or just create them into heaven? No, he made it awesome for the human being to explore. You said that if there are aliens then he would love them as much. Now you say he made it for humans? We just have to keep the spirit up, by remembering that soon we'll live together with him. That "soon" has already been thousands of years, that is not soon. God made the earth a terrible place, to make us look forward to be living with him. If it is so terrible then why are there so many beautiful things here?' Living with him? Forever? Don't you think it will get boring, I mean the same place forever? I hate boredom - not doing anything - over pretty much everything. Its just becouse then we see his love more powerfull than ever, the third world is suffering, their bodies are suffering, but they'll soon live with Him. And what about those who suffer? They won't find suffering good in any manner, all they see is his abuse and hate him for it. So he is picking people out from everyone by making some suffer and others not? What's the point? Sounds like just a game for mindless fun. Therefore, its gone when they leave their body. Those memories will all fade away when we leave our body. So the people who leave their body will no longer be the same person when he/she was in the body. You're basically saying that if one dies one dies, no heaven or anything else. The memories and experiences of a person make him/her who he/she is, if some parts of those are gone the person basically dies. If they cannot remember the bad parts of living on Earth how can they appreciate the good and joy of heaven? proven by who? Human? .. You can stop with all those logical things when debatin with a christian. We don't believe in what you call evedence. Religion is made by humans. Evidence is absolute reality. Religion has none of it, therefore you, sorry but, are delusional. I don't think you would, cuz you'd have no idea what love is. You've never experienced not having it, and then it becomes a normal thing for you, a thing you don't notice. Have you experienced "not believing"? Then how can you know if religion is true? And no, if there was other people elsewhere, God would go against true religion if he DIDN'T take care of them too. Wait... What? Isn't God that makes the rules, not humans? Our own addings? The main source is, that if you believe in God, Jesus and the holy spirit, you are saved. Everything else.. we can never really know who's right. Saved from what? Everything else is not relevant, you mean? How can you know the parts you refer to as relevant aren't also made up? Yes you had God every way through.. You just don't believe it. Because blind faith is extremely bad and that's all religion is. I'd rather base my opinions on actual reality. Love don't mean hurt, hurt oftens leads to love and love often leads to be left hurten. But not by God. Why should God be any different? So, if I kill someone through heavy and sadistic torture that person will receive a massive dose of God's love? Yes kind of.. but mostly becouse God didn't want to FORCE us to live with him in Heaven, he wanted to give us a choice, by letting us live here. Not exactly a choice if he puts ideas in our heads... We can only really choose if we are not biased in any manner, and God putting ideas into our heads is biasing us. And if you ask ONE more time how I can know something I will cut your head of :p just kidding :) Becoming rather annoying, huh? I believe.. thats just it. Evedence? I have enough evidence.. The bible :) That's the issue, just believing. It's wrong and bad, it keeps people from thinking about... everything. I use my own mind to think over existence, what is real, what is and might be possible. Religion rules all that out because all thoughts and opinions are taken from the book, not from within the person reading it. How can you consider that good? 1
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Then what made his death so special if it wasn't special? He was just a man, like everyone else, right? Read about his death, then you'll see why it was special. He didn't just die, a lot of things happened, and all the people who had been spitting at him and all that kinda stuff, they believed when he was dead. So why ain't he showing it to any of us? He is showing you, you're just not looking. I'm asking you because you claim all these things and yet you don't know anything, and you can't know because there is no evidence, only probability that inclines toward all of it being a lie. Getting to know someone who doesn't exist is rather impossible. There is just as much evidence of evulotion being true, as it is for an existing God. Have you ever seen evulotion? Have you ever touched evulotion, have you had any senceable contact with evolution? No? Okay, then it is just as much a lie, as you claim God to be. Why make us different in the first place? It makes no sense. Unless we evolved, and that means God did not create us. Heaven? All inclines toward it not existing. Hey, why did you paint the Mona Lisa?? Oh wait, you didn't. I didn't create the human either, so how can I now why God created us? Blind faith is never a good thing. Very many examples throughout history. I don't have a blind faith. None-believers call it that, couse they've never seen my faith. I see it, I see Gods love every where. He has done amazing things for me and others around me. So I don't call it blind faith. The reason it is confusing to you is because you are seeing that some things just don't make sense and, unfortunately, you are resisting them, denying them. I simply replied to your comments with logical thinking and the result is that religion does not make sense. No, the reason you're confusing me, is becouse you literally take words out of my mouth, and you keep asking questions I already answered. And the bible has zero evidence. Tell me, does evolution have an evidence, and what is it? I haven't read it but I have seen plenty of movies, series, even games that have references to that book, plus I've heard some things in school and from other people, and read on the internet. I know enough about it. It is just a fantasy book and a bad one at that, nothing more. You can smell a bread, you can touch a pice of bread.. you can even take a bite and then spit it out. But if you wanna stop your hunger, you have to eat it. So if you wanna know God, know the bible.. If you wanna have anything to come back with when christians ask you questions, then read the thing. I think Im gonna stop right after I finished this text, couse I don't see the point in showing you have great God is, when you don't care to look. That's because in reality nothing has a meaning. That means everyone is free to pick a meaning, any meaning, for themselves, and adhering to religion is a very poor one. You could take one similar to mine (I can't see anything negative about it). "To be useful for humanity in some manner and at the same time have some 'fun'." That's true for me presently, although I could change it any moment. My life sertainly has meaning. Don't know about yours. That's the problem. You believe something you don't know. You trust something you don't know, and can never know. I do know, I know God. You just said God created evolution. Then you said he created our brains, that goes against evolution. Our brains have evolved, as have we and as has all other life on Earth, from first micro-organisms that emerged on Earth. Then you say he created all of it. It's either one of them or neither. (Go for evolution, seriously. Creation makes very little sense because that's all it says - they were created. Believing creationism is being lazy and stupid.) If he created evolution why create animals and humans if all that would evolve anyway? To speed up the process? Then why not skip everything and go straight for creating a paradise, or just create them into heaven? God created everything. He created evolution. Evolution wouldn't have happen, if God wasn't there. God created the human brain through evolution. Everything God made, he did it with evoltuin (not many christians do believe this, so I don't have any biblical evidence of this happening) You said that if there are aliens then he would love them as much. Now you say he made it for humans? What makes you think we're the only humans existing? That "soon" has already been thousands of years, that is not soon. Im not gonna discuss with you what 'soon' is. But when I said soon, I meant when Im leaving this world.. in like 70 years if im lucky. But who knows, mabe the end of the world is near. If it is so terrible then why are there so many beautiful things here?' Living with him? Forever? Don't you think it will get boring, I mean the same place forever? I hate boredom - not doing anything - over pretty much everything. Even though he wanted us to look forward to be living with him, he didn't want us to live in a garbage can. And no, I don't think it'll be boring :) I think it'll be awesome. So the people who leave their body will no longer be the same person when he/she was in the body. You're basically saying that if one dies one dies, no heaven or anything else. The memories and experiences of a person make him/her who he/she is, if some parts of those are gone the person basically dies. If they cannot remember the bad parts of living on Earth how can they appreciate the good and joy of heaven? yes they'll be the same. But all the bad stuff is forgotten. Religion is made by humans. Evidence is absolute reality. Religion has none of it, therefore you, sorry but, are delusional. Do you have any evidence of, that evidence really are true? Have you experienced "not believing"? Then how can you know if religion is true? Yes I have experienced not beliving :) Im not gonna answer questions that begins with 'how can you know' from now on :) You're a smart boy, I think you know the answer. Wait... What? Isn't God that makes the rules, not humans? Yes, you would have known that, if you've read the bible. You can't argue with me about biblical things, if you don't know what is says. God made tons of, not rules, good advice on how to live our life. Rules don't really excist, since we have free will. Saved from what? Everything else is not relevant, you mean? How can you know the parts you refer to as relevant aren't also made up? Saved from your sin. Your sin is not a part of you, when you're saved. Jesus died on the cross, and took every single sin that was made, and yet haven't been made. The only thing we have to do is believe. And how can I know? you guess. Because blind faith is extremely bad and that's all religion is. I'd rather base my opinions on actual reality. How can you say my faith is blind? You have never experienced it. Why should God be any different? So, if I kill someone through heavy and sadistic torture that person will receive a massive dose of God's love? God is different cuz he's not human. He is not like us, he is pure love. And yes that person is gonna get a massive dose of love, but not bc you killed him. He always gets it, no matter what. That's the issue, just believing. It's wrong and bad, it keeps people from thinking about... everything. I use my own mind to think over existence, what is real, what is and might be possible. Religion rules all that out because all thoughts and opinions are taken from the book, not from within the person reading it. How can you consider that good? Don't reply to all my replies. Just answer these questions: 1. you think I don't have any evidence proving that God excist! Can you give me a single ecidenve proving that God DOSEN'T excist? 2. Do you have evidence of that evolution excisted, if so, show me! Keep your opinion about all the rest to yourself, until you've read the bible. We seriously can't argue about a book you haven't read. Don't reply to all my replies. Just answer these questions: Life ain't that easy. Sorry. Read about his death, then you'll see why it was special. He didn't just die, a lot of things happened, and all the people who had been spitting at him and all that kinda stuff, they believed when he was dead. No proof any of it happened. He is showing you, you're just not looking. The reason I can't see anything is because there ain't anything to look at. There is just as much evidence of evulotion being true, as it is for an existing God. That is untrue. There is evidence for evolution but none for God. This covers all the basics and more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution Read it thoroughly, it'll do good to you. Have you ever seen evulotion? Have you ever touched evulotion, have you had any senceable contact with evolution? No? Okay, then it is just as much a lie, as you claim God to be. Are you serious? It is impossible to touch evolution, evolution is a process not a thing. Evolution occurs over thousands and millions of years, not within a human life. Although micro-organisms can evolve fast enough for humans to see it, and there have been made successful experiments. Here you go, http://www.newscientist.com/article/ so how can I now why God created us? Following someone without knowing why he created all is blind faith. I don't have a blind faith. None-believers call it that, couse they've never seen my faith. I see it, I see Gods love every where. He has done amazing things for me and others around me. So I don't call it blind faith. A definition of blind faith - belief without true understanding, perception, or discrimination. Do you truly understand why your religion is as it is? No. Why God did everything he did? No. Can you look at it from the outside, without bias? You probably could but won't. Blind faith. No, the reason you're confusing me, is becouse you literally take words out of my mouth, and you keep asking questions I already answered. Giving a false answer is not exactly answering them. Tell me, does evolution have an evidence, and what is it? Look again at the bacteria experiment, and read through wiki. You can smell a bread, you can touch a pice of bread.. you can even take a bite and then spit it out. But if you wanna stop your hunger, you have to eat it. See, the thing is, food is necessary for life. Religion is not. As you can see I am not religious and yet I am alive. So if you wanna know God, know the bible.. If you wanna have anything to come back with when christians ask you questions, then read the thing. And do you know about not being religious, about opposing it as I do, and why one would do it? I know about religion. I see what it is, nothing good. I have far more knowledge about existence than religious people do, that is why I oppose it, because none of it makes any sense and yet so many adhere to it. I think Im gonna stop right after I finished this text, couse I don't see the point in showing you have great God is, when you don't care to look. There is nothing to look at. My life sertainly has meaning. Don't know about yours. Nothing has a meaning, but everyone can choose one for themselves, since we exist and have abstract thoughts. I do know, I know God. No you don't. Have you spoken to him? I mean have you spoken to him with him speaking back? God created everything. He created evolution. Evolution wouldn't have happen, if God wasn't there. God created the human brain through evolution. You clearly don't know what evolution is. Evolution means there is no one knowingly affecting the process in any manner. Someone may put the evolving thing to certain conditions or change the conditions but after that there may be no manipulation of any kind. If there is it is not entirely evolution. What makes you think we're the only humans existing? There might be other species that look like us but they are not humans. They are not humans because we have no relations to them other than our very similar looks. I think it'll be awesome. Even awesome becomes boring eventually. yes they'll be the same. But all the bad stuff is forgotten. If they forget the bad stuff they won't be the same. The bad stuff is what made them who they were. If you had never had bad stuff in your life would you still be as you are now? As you said, to appreciate joy and love one has to feel pain and misery, if you take the bad away then they cannot appreciate joy and love. Do you have any evidence of, that evidence really are true? Do you exist? I assume you do, otherwise I should contact a doctor... Evidence can only come from something that definitely exists, otherwise it would not be evidence. Why would scientists lie about reality? They get more funding through making discoveries and finding evidence. God made tons of, not rules, good advice on how to live our life. I fail to see how stoning children to death is good advice. Saved from your sin. Your sin is not a part of you, when you're saved. Jesus died on the cross, and took every single sin that was made, and yet haven't been made. The only thing we have to do is believe. Blind faith... Who is to say we are all, or were as you put it, sinned? How exactly did he take all sins away, including the ones not yet made? Again, blind faith. And how can I know? you guess. From "The Book of the Magnificent Unicorn" I presume... a book that has zero evidence when it comes to reality and the things it says make no sense. Good for you! Not really... How can you say my faith is blind? You have never experienced it. I'd rather not experience faith, it is all blind. Definition for you, faith - belief that is not based on proof. No proof means blindness. Take it like this. One can move and see therefore has proof of where he is every moment. A blind one can move but not see, therefore does not know where he is. he is pure love. So, pure love created everything? Even pain and misery? I fail to see how love could create that. And yes that person is gonna get a massive dose of love, but not bc you killed him. Of course because of me, I'm the one who delivered all that agony to that person. As you said, the ones who suffer get to taste God's love. Without me there would have been no suffering. He always gets it, no matter what. I don't... and never have. And I've even had my share of "suffering". you think I don't have any evidence proving that God excist! Exactly, because there is no evidence. Absolute evidence whether an entity with that much power exists? No. But your specific God? Evolution. There is evidence of it in abundance, yet religion says God created everything without evolution. This is one piece of evidence. That's a major flaw, and all that's necessary if you ask me. Do you have evidence of that evolution excisted, if so, show me! The two links up there, somewhere. You are free to do your own googling and research if that wasn't enough. It existed and still does this very moment and will as long as life exists. Why would you not believe scientific experiments that give evidence to something while your precious book gives none? Because of blind faith? Keep your opinion about all the rest to yourself, until you've read the bible. We seriously can't argue about a book you haven't read. What can I say, I like doing things my way. Reading the bible is unnecessary because I know enough about it to say it is nonsense. There are so many flaws, fundamental flaws, things not explained, things that cannot be explained, things that don't have and never will have any evidence, yet asked to believe. It is all blind faith. 1
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What can I say, I like doing things my way.Reading the bible is unnecessary because I know enough about it to say it is nonsense. There are so many flaws, fundamental flaws, things not explained, things that cannot be explained, things that don't have and never will have any evidence, yet asked to believe. It is all blind faith. Those who told you about the bible, how can you know THAT is not made up? I can tell you right now, you know NOTHING about christianity, and you have no right to speak up about God and his love, when you don't know anything about it, or as you say yourself. you've never felt is love. Also, you didn't answer my question, probably cuz you can't. My question is Have you any proof of that God dosen't exist? if yes, show it to me. The reason I can't see anything is because there ain't anything to look at. The reason you can't see, is because you're not looking. The reason I can't see anything is because there ain't anything to look at. You call that evidence? That some guy wrote something about a thing, and made everyone believe it? now where have I heard that before???! If I shouldn't listen to the guys writing the book, why should I listen to a guy writing another book or project or whatever? Impossible to touch evolution? Its not impossible to touch God, that makes him bigger to me. Following someone without knowing why he created all is blind faith. You follow evolution without knowing why it happened, and where it came from. Was it from nothing? Cuz you said so youself, that nothing comes from nothing. How can you believe that our beautiful world came from nothing? A definition of blind faith - belief without true understanding, perception, or discrimination. Do you truly understand why your religion is as it is? No. Why God did everything he did? No. Can you look at it from the outside, without bias? You probably could but won't. Blind faith. Yeah I understand my religion. And there is true understanding to me, just not in your eyes. That dosen't make me blind, that makes you blind. Giving a false answer is not an answer When did I give you a false answer? See, the thing is, food is necessary for life. Religion is not. As you can see I am not religious and yet I am alive. No not to be kept alive, but to have hope and faith in that someday it'll all be good, then you need it. And do you know about not being religious, about opposing it as I do, and why one would do it? Yes I do, I wasn't born christian. I know about religion. I see what it is, nothing good. I have far more knowledge about existence than religious people do, that is why I oppose it, because none of it makes any sense and yet so many adhere to it. Tell me one thing you know about religion.. or tell me one thing you know about God. and to say its bad and he dosen't exist dosen't count as 'knowing'. I can say alot of stuff about you, you're ugly, boring, evil.. but they're probably not true cause I don't know you. No you don't. Have you spoken to him? I mean have you spoken to him with him speaking back? I have spoken to God throug prayers, and he speeks back throug the bible :) IF you would have 'known' anything about christianity, you would have known that. Its just like getting a gift, and thinking you can guess whats inside just by looking at the package. No buddy, to find out whats inside you'll have to open it. You clearly don't know what evolution is. Evolution means there is no one knowingly affecting the process in any manner. Someone may put the evolving thing to certain conditions or change the conditions but after that there may be no manipulation of any kind. If there is it is not entirely evolution. THERE IT IS! you just proved my point. May I wuote again; there is no one knowingly affecting the process no one knowingly = GOD! There might be other species that look like us but they are not humans. They are not humans because we have no relations to them other than our very similar looks. Have you seen these things? No, then you have no idea what they look like or what they are. Just how you don't know how God is. You don't see him, you don't speek to him.. how could you possibly know anything about him? Thats the thing with atheists (I assume you're an atheist) They think they know everything, they're so smart and all, but when it comes to it, they know nothing. Even awesome becomes boring eventually. then your kind of awesomeness is not very awesome. Also in Heaven there is nothing called boring. As I said, Heaven is pure joy. To be bored is not very joyful. Do you exist? I assume you do, otherwise I should contact a doctor... Evidence can only come from something that definitely exists, otherwise it would not be evidence. Why would scientists lie about reality? They get more funding through making discoveries and finding evidence. I exist yes I do. I don't see why I according to you, cannot believe some men writing a book, but I should believe a man saying that is evidence.. I have never seen how evolution is evidence. People just tell me there are evidence of the evolution. So tell me, why should I believe you, but not someone else? I fail to see how stoning children to death is good advice. Did I EVER mention that that was a good advice? Did God ever mention that is something you should do? No, neither of us didn't. Again, impossible to discuss a book you haven't read. Just because some horrible episodes accured in the bible, dosen't mean God allowed it. The people in the bible were normal people like us. They did horrible things, becouse they didn't know God. So, pure love created everything? Even pain and misery? I fail to see how love could create that. No. There is nothing called evil. Evil is just the absent of Love. Without love, there is nothing, and that nothing we humans decided to call Evil. Just like cold isn't a thing. Cold is just the absent of Heat. Nothing has a meaning, but everyone can choose one for themselves, since we exist and have abstract thoughts. You just have to find the meaning, I've found mine. No one can tell you where it is, you'll just have to look for yourself. Blind faith... Who is to say we are all, or were as you put it, sinned? How exactly did he take all sins away, including the ones not yet made? Again, blind faith. He took the sin away by dying on the cross. And it is God who says we're all sinners. We're all sinners, becouse our parents (what I believe were the first humans on earth, Adam and Eve) Didn't obey God, and thats how sin, evil and all other bad things happened. God meant for it to happen, couse without it, we would be just like puppets, we would not be free to make our own decissions. I'd rather not experience faith, it is all blind. Definition for you, faith - belief that is not based on proof. No proof means blindness. There is no proof of you really existing.. this could be a dream. There is no proof of anything... I don't... and never have. And I've even had my share of "suffering". Well, you have the choice, so if you wanna be misserable, its your own fault, not Gods. He's offering you his love, you're just not taking it. From "The Book of the Magnificent Unicorn" I presume... a book that has zero evidence when it comes to reality and the things it says make no sense. Good for you! Not really... Yeah that book I am not going to give a comment on, bc unlike you, I don't discuss a book I haven't read with other.. only dummies do that :) Those who told you about the bible, how can you know THAT is not made up? Things I have heard from religious people, including you. You made it all up? The religious tend to know less about their own religion, they just believe, they don't think. Sound familiar? Like looking in the mirror? I can tell you right now, you know NOTHING about christianity, and you have no right to speak up about God and his love, when you don't know anything about it, or as you say yourself. you've never felt is love. Oh, but I do. It would've been far more precise to say I don't know everything, and I don't need to know everything, I know the basics, more or less. I don't need to know a book by heart, what would be the point? If the basics are bullshit, how can the rest be true? If the basics are bullshit and that is what everything else is built on then everything else is BS also. Have you any proof of that God dosen't exist? if yes, show it to me. I explained you evolution. That is all the proof you need, not my problem you don't understand any of it. The reason you can't see, is because you're not looking. There is nothing to look at, as I have said already. If I shouldn't listen to the guys writing the book, why should I listen to a guy writing another book or project or whatever? The point is to distinguish fiction from fact. Proved by science is fact. Written by some random guys with no evidence supporting is fiction, until proved otherwise and there is no proof to the bible. Its not impossible to touch God, that makes him bigger to me. And how are you touching him? Can you prove it? You follow evolution without knowing why it happened, and where it came from. I don't follow anything. If something I previously thought as right is proven wrong I change my opinions. I know why it happened. It was, more or less, an "accident". The conditions here on Earth, 4 billion years ago, happened to be right for life to occur. Atoms united forming molecules, molecules united forming even more complex ones, all that under the right conditions and you get life. The basic components of what we are all made up have been created experimentally by making a sort of "soup" and just letting it boil on its own with no further influence. Here you go, http://www.scientificamerican.com/ Was it from nothing? Cuz you said so youself, that nothing comes from nothing. How can you believe that our beautiful world came from nothing? What I said was, "everything must come from something; you cannot create something out of nothing." Yeah I understand my religion. And there is true understanding to me, just not in your eyes. That dosen't make me blind, that makes you blind. You can only understand if you know why it is as it is and you don't know any of it. Because god created all of it? Why did god create everything? Do you know? No you don't. There you go. Blind faith. I am blind for seeing what religion truly is? When did I give you a false answer? All the questions I asked and you said you don't know. If you follow something or someone you must know why it is required from you to follow and you must know what it is you are exactly following, otherwise it is blind faith. No not to be kept alive, but to have hope and faith in that someday it'll all be good, then you need it. Hope and faith that it'll all be good one day? ??? What will be good one day? I will need it one day? What for? Why should I need it? Faith is one of the worst things among humanity, it keeps people stupid. And hope? Hope that I will do well in life? Or something else? I don't hope, I just do. Hope is useless if you don't act to achieve whatever it is you are hoping for. Yes I do, I wasn't born christian. No one is born religious, it is taught since birth, until it is all they know and shut out everything else that disparages their stupid teachings. Tell me one thing you know about religion.. or tell me one thing you know about God. It is all lunacy. One thing, as you asked, and as a bonus it describes everything. I can say alot of stuff about you, you're ugly, boring, evil.. but they're probably not true cause I don't know you. Exactly, because you don't know me, but I know religion. Religion is against reality, one evidence - evolution. All you need really, since it all begins from the act of creation, but everything evolved not was created. I have spoken to God throug prayers, and he speeks back throug the bible :) IF you would have 'known' anything about christianity, you would have known that. So you pray (hope for something?) and then you refer to the book for answers? To the words that have been written very long ago? That is not speaking to someone, that is reading something. Or are the words there changing after your prayers? I knew about praying, and how stupid it is. Hoping things from an imaginary friend is not exactly healthy. Implies insanity, or a mental disorder, something like that. Its just like getting a gift, and thinking you can guess whats inside just by looking at the package. No buddy, to find out whats inside you'll have to open it. A gift is something that actually exists... There is nothing to open when it comes to religion. Perhaps there is something - the path to lunacy. THERE IT IS! you just proved my point. May I wuote again; there is no one knowingly affecting the process no one knowingly = GOD! My mistake while writing... There is no one affecting it. But let's go with my little mistake. You think god would not know everything he did at every moment? In his case there are no accidents. Or is he not so perfect after all? You don't see him, you don't speek to him.. how could you possibly know anything about him? Same goes to you. You cannot see him. You obviously are talking to him, like talking to an imaginary friend, but he is not talking back (sounds like a crazy person, doesn't it?). How can you know anything about him? You've never even met him. I know your god does not exist. Evolution is proof, since you are claiming he created us. Thats the thing with atheists (I assume you're an atheist) They think they know everything, they're so smart and all, but when it comes to it, they know nothing. I don't consider myself an atheist. Not at the moment anyway. But according to definition I could be one. We don't know everything, we simply see the flaws of religion and as a whole we have a much higher knowledge when it comes to all of existence. We see religion for what it really is - crap. We know a lot more than all religious combined (almost all scientists are atheists). So, yes, we are smart, much smarter than religious and we know a lot more. then your kind of awesomeness is not very awesome. Also in Heaven there is nothing called boring. As I said, Heaven is pure joy. To be bored is not very joyful. If you do something on and on and on it gets boring, always does. As you said, to appreciate joy and love one has to experience bad, and boring is something like bad. I have never seen how evolution is evidence. People just tell me there are evidence of the evolution. So tell me, why should I believe you, but not someone else? Evidence can only come from something that exists. There have been made successful experiments, click on the links I have provided, especially the bacteria thing and the new "soup" thing, wiki has information about fossils. I doubt you read any of it, and if did then... Did I EVER mention that that was a good advice? Did God ever mention that is something you should do? No, neither of us didn't. Again, impossible to discuss a book you haven't read. Did he ever say you should do anything mentioned in the bible? If it weren't meant for following then why add it? So that stoning part is essentially a lie? How can you know they aren't all lies? They did horrible things, becouse they didn't know God. Yet they were religious, were they not? Why go against god if he is so great and powerful? There is nothing called evil. Evil is just the absent of Love. Without love, there is nothing, and that nothing we humans decided to call Evil. If someone is sad, without love, that someone is evil? I wouldn't say I particularly have love right now, I'd say I'm more like neutral, are you saying I am evil? Evil is someone who does something bad to someone else, like killing someone sadistically and at the same time enjoys it. That is Evil. Evil is the act of knowingly doing something bad to someone. Just like cold isn't a thing. Cold is just the absent of Heat. You can't compare this to love and evil. They are very different. Love and evil are both abstract concepts. The thing with temperature is that it can go from zero to very high. Cold is something we feel as "cold". Cold just means there's less heat or none. Cold pulls heat toward it, to compensate the difference. So our feeling cold is us losing heat. It never goes below absolute zero, there is no negative, no evil when it comes to temperature. We simply cannot survive in too low temperatures. You just have to find the meaning, I've found mine. No one can tell you where it is, you'll just have to look for yourself. There is no "finding" a meaning, you pick one for yourself. I have picked one for myself and it is far better than being religious. He took the sin away by dying on the cross. Then we have all lost our sins hundreds of millions of times. You know how many have died over thousands of years? Or only if one dies on a cross? Then I guess its less than hundreds of millions, but still very many times. And it is God who says we're all sinners. As in it is written in the book that has no evidence whether it is true or not? How can you know what is said in there is god's words? You can't. And don't say you believe it, that's just stupid, it's just blind faith. Use your own mind, if you have one. Saying something like "because god said it is" is very stupid and very lazy. It is not an explanation, neither is it an answer. We're all sinners, becouse our parents (what I believe were the first humans on earth, Adam and Eve) Didn't obey God, and thats how sin, evil and all other bad things happened. They are not us. The end. If someone kills someone else then that one's children are all also criminals? And should also be locked up as current law says? You see how stupid it is? God meant for it to happen, couse without it, we would be just like puppets, we would not be free to make our own decissions. The supposed taking of the apple was an act of freedom and their own decision. You say he puts thoughts in our heads. That means we are not free. He says that we are all sinned, we cannot decide ourselves. That is not being free. He says those who oppose him go to hell. That is not being free. And so forth. Not being FREE. Being religious means being a puppet. Get it now? There is no proof of you really existing.. this could be a dream. There is no proof of anything... Can you fart? There you go, proof of existence. If this were a dream that means everything you experience is made up by your own mind, meaning this "debate" is all your doing, meaning you are arguing with yourself, meaning you have the potential to see things as they really are, meaning you have the ability to understand that religion is wrong. Well, you have the choice, so if you wanna be misserable, its your own fault, not Gods. He's offering you his love, you're just not taking it. I am not miserable. You're saying that everyone who is not religious is miserable? He ain't offering anything, I'd "sense" it if he was. Meaning, as you say I'm just not taking it, he does not exist. Yeah that book I am not going to give a comment on, bc unlike you, I don't discuss a book I haven't read with other.. only dummies do that I don't have to read a book to know what it contains. I've heard what it contains and it is all so stupid. 1
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Im gonna ignore everything you just wrote, because I am a bit tired of this :p Instead, Im gonna tell you exactly what I believe. The bible describes Hell as a dark place, with everlasting fire. There will be no death, just pain and bad things. To me, that makes no sense. You can't be in a dark place, with fire in it. Fire makes light. Although I believe that the laws of nature could be different in Hell&Heaven;, I find it hard to believe that my loving God would send you to Hell to be burned forever. Im going to quote one thing you said though. Then we have all lost our sins hundreds of millions of times. You know how many have died over thousands of years? Or only if one dies on a cross? Then I guess its less than hundreds of millions, but still very many times. If a person could take all the sins ever made, he had to be sin free himself. No human can be sin free, therefore God had to sacrifice his own son. You understand now why the other deaths didn't work? He took al the sins. What Jesus did on the cross was a victory. He won against Satan. (The battle between God and Satan, they both wanted us to belong to them, you understand) Jesus won the battle for God, or in other words, Jesus and God are the same person, so technically God won too. Now, if Jesus won on the cross, then we all should have a place in Heaven right? But the bible doesn't say so. Therefore, I think Hell is a metaphor. It isn't real, or at least I don't believe it is. Some do, but I can't get myself to believe, that Jesus's death on the cross was just so about 30% of all human beings could come join him in Heaven. No, he won. Every single person is payed a ticket to heaven. But I don't think we're forced to live in heaven. When we die, I believe we get a chance to come and live with God, and I think if we say no thanks, then we will not burn in any place. I believe we will be destroyed.. like you know! Our existence will be destroyed. Then you probably are gonna ask me, why use your whole life on praying, reading and praise God? Well, that is kinda up to you :) I chased to do so, others might not. I also wanna answer one more question you asked, because it annoyed me very much that you asked this question. If it weren't meant for following then why add it? So that stoning part is essentially a lie? How can you know they aren't all lies?
What makes you think the stoning part was a lie? The bible isn't telling us to stone our children, if they're naughty. If you've read it, you'd have known that. The stoning part is a story. A man in the bible, is telling a story about a child, or mane many children, who were stoned to death when they were naughty.. NOT because God told them to. Because they simply thought that was the right thing to do. The bible isn't 1281 pages of laws. The bible has lots of stories. Good stories. Ruth, Moses, Jesus, Jonas, job and Abraham. They're all incredibly good stories. So I recommend you to read the bible, not so you'll believe or anything, but because it is a really good book, and interesting to read. And also, then you would be more fun to debate with, you would have lots of things to say to a christian. Your arguments would be better, cause I get the feeling, that you really like to argue about this subject, and you like to drown a christian with questions, am I right?! Most of your questions don't make sense. You're asking me like you know whats in the bible, but you don't. You've heard something, assume its true and then you go on an ask me a question, wich really don't make sence. So read the good stories. You can skip all the boring part with all the laws. You probably think Im cherry-picking in the bible. Actually I don't think its wrong to cherry pick. I bet you agree with the bible on some levels yourself. And I won't say Im cherry picking, Im just interpreting the bible my own way. When you tell someone to burn in Hell, you don't literally mean they should burn in hell. Just like that, I think the bible is using a metaphor. Now I have one question for you. Evolution does NOT prove, that no god is existing. Evolution proves, that God didn't create the world in 7 days (actually he could, we don't know how long 7 days lasted back then, the bible is very old, 7 days could've been 7000 years) Evolution proves that a bang happened or whatever .. I don't really know. But I know, it has never been proved that God dozen' exist. You're theory is, that you need evidence to believe anything right? So how can you believe that there is no God, when there aren't any evidence proving it? I'm gonna ignore everything too. Well, almost everything. What makes you think the stoning part was a lie? Isn't it in the book regarded as the right thing to do? Then why aren't you following it? You are denying your own god. Won't denying you god mean you will go to hell? God didn't create the world in 7 days It says it was done in 7 days in the bible, does it not? You saying that is not true means you are opposing your god. Doesn't that also mean you will go to hell? You get why it is nonsense? You adhere to it even though you claim some things to be wrong, yet a total submission to religion is required in order to go to heaven, is it not? A total submission is not needed? Only the acceptance of god's love? Then why is there so much other nonsense? Why not simply say if you accept my love you will go to heaven? If some sadistic killers and rapists accepted god's love and still kept on doing their evil business, would they also go to heaven? They did accept god's love... Or will god deny them his love? How is stoning children to death any worse than being a killer or rapist? they both do bad things. Yet stoning children to death is considered right in the bible. Any of it making sense to you? If some things, as you can see are wrong, why should the rest be right? You haven't even thought of it, not with honesty, anyway. I bet you grew up in religious environment, meaning it is all you know, you can't imagine a life without it, therefore you won't even try. That means that even if someone gives evidence against religion you will deny all of it, or find some stupid ways to still keep being religious. Blind faith is all that religion is. I asked you many question for which you have no answer, and you don't know the answer, and never will. I don't follow anything, I know the answer for which there is an answer, those that don't have one I base on the biggest probability, until proven wrong. There is evidence that religion is nonsense - the fact that none of it makes any sense and that it denies evolution while evolution has been proven many times over. So how can you believe that there is no God, when there aren't any evidence proving it? There might be some entities with that much power as to create universes, but still not out of nothing. Evidence to that there is not. Your specific god, however, does not exist. Evolution is the proof of that. The world wasn't created in 7 days and out of nothing, it took billions of years, and we, humans, evolved, just as did all other life. If some part is proven wrong (something written so very long when no one knew anything about how things really are), you don't change it to make the rest "possible". That one part proves everything else wrong, since that is what everything else is built on and that is what is considered as truth. 1
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Your answers to What makes you think the stoning part was a lie and God didn't create the world in 7 days they don't make sence. They just show how little you know about christianity. Can you read my text for those questions again? Isn't it in the book regarded as the right thing to do? Then why aren't you following it? You are denying your own god. Won't denying you god mean you will go to hell? If you know so much about religion, how come you don't know what the book is for? The bible tells you whats right and wrong :) Not EVERYTHING in there is right. A lot of the things in the bible are really good stories. But this is impossible to discuss.. you haven't read it. It says it was done in 7 days in the bible, does it not? You saying that is not true means you are opposing your god. Doesn't that also mean you will go to hell? and Your specific god, however, does not exist. Evolution is the proof of that. The world wasn't created in 7 days and out of nothing, it took billions of years, and we, humans, evolved, just as did all other life. If some part is proven wrong (something written so very long when no one knew anything about how things really are), you don't change it to make the rest "possible". That one part proves everything else wrong, since that is what everything else is built on and that is what is considered as truth. What did I JUST say?! are you even reading what Im writing? If not, I don't see how we could continue this debate. 7 days.. is that 24 hour pr. day? Do you know when the world was created? I don't.. but I think its over 200 billions of years ago.. or at least I heard so.. If the world was created 200 billions ago, billions of years before human, how can we know how long a day lasted? The 'day' as we know it, was created by humans. Som escientists came up with, that the earth takes 24 hours to spin around itself. But the day in the bible, a day 200 billions of years ago, could've lasted millions of years :) Do you understand? They just show how little you know about christianity. And that is all there is to know about it, it's all illogical nonsense. Can you read my text for those questions again? You clearly can't understand what I'm asking and saying. If you deny some "facts" that make that specific religion what it is then you aren't following that religion. Perhaps you have altered some things and thus created a new one, but it is not christianity anymore. The bible tells you whats right and wrong :) Not EVERYTHING in there is right. Then why are there wrongs that are considered right? That means the "right and wrong" explained there is false. But this is impossible to discuss.. you haven't read it. And I won't because what I have heard is more than enough to say it is all nonsense. Do you know when the world was created? I don't.. but I think its over 200 billions of years ago.. or at least I heard so.. It's 14 billion years, give or take a little. If the world was created 200 billions ago, billions of years before human, how can we know how long a day lasted? A day comes from the revolving of a planet rotating around a star. There were no days when it all began. Why is the creation measured in days exactly? You don't know. If it were longer than 7 days, like 200 billion years as you say, then they would not have used days because day signifies something totally different, especially back then. Som escientists came up with, that the earth takes 24 hours to spin around itself. Scientists did not come up with the word "day". That word, that concept, has existed thousands of years, before your precious religion even existed. The sun rises and sets, when it rises again a day has passed. Hour is new, several centuries only. Something from wiki, "Ancient Egyptians used sundials that "divided a sunlit day into 10 parts plus two "twilight hours" in the morning and evening." "The Greek astronomer, Andronicus of Cyrrhus, oversaw the construction of a horologion called the Tower of the Winds in Athens during the first century BCE. This structure tracked a 24-hour day using both sundials and mechanical hour indicators." "Ancient Sumer, India, and China also divided days into either one twelfth of the time between sunrise and sunset or one twenty-fourth of a full day." As you should understand a day is a very short period, making it false to use "7 days" for an extremely long period. Words for long periods, like thousands and hundreds of years have also existed a very long time, from before you precious religion. Why not use those instead if they would've been far more appropriate? You don't know. And it is getting boring. 1
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Then why are there wrongs that are considered right? That means the "right and wrong" explained there is false. No, the bible is telling us what is right, and ALSO what is wrong. Somethings are wrong in the bible, thats the thing with learning whats right and wrong right? You have to know whats wrong to know whats right, and you have to know whats right to know whats wrong. It's 14 billion years, give or take a little. my mistake A day comes from the revolving of a planet rotating around a star. There were no days when it all began. Why is the creation measured in days exactly? You don't know. you don't understand me. A day is a day.. 24 hours of course. But what God called a 'day', could be anything. A 'day' is just a word. We never get to know what a day is in the bible. The only thing we get to know about days, are that one day is like 1000 years to God, and a 1000 years is like one day to God :) No, the bible is telling us what is right, and ALSO what is wrong. It think you're not getting what I'm trying to say. According to bible it is right to stone children to death and it is right to have slaves. From you, separately of bible, is doing things like that right or is it wrong? A day is a day.. 24 hours of course. But what God called a 'day', could be anything. I gave you the definition of day... If god used a word it was not day. A 'day' is just a word. It is just a word. So is yes, no, what, chair, house, lollipop, etc. It is a word that has specific meanings, and none of them can be used for long periods. We never get to know what a day is in the bible. I'll clarify what a day is... Oh, wait, I already did. The only thing we get to know about days, are that one day is like 1000 years to God, and a 1000 years is like one day to God :) We are talking of human perception here, are we not? Let's say god "works" faster than us, but still exists parallel to us. While we move, he sees all that as moving very very slowly, almost as if no movement at all. In that sense if to us passed 1 day, he could sense the same period as one of us would experience 1000 years. To him the 1000 "years" would be the time Earth makes a spin. That day would still not be 1000 years long, it would be 24 hours. Earth is roughly 4,5 billion years old. If God did create everything, why wait so long to create Earth? And the answer is you don't know, of course. Don't you think if you can't come up with some answer it might all just be a load of crap? And I don't mean coming up with fantasy, I mean real possibilities, through logical thinking. 1
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According to bible it is right to stone children to death and it is right to have slaves. According to the bible? you haven't read the bible, you can't quote it or comment it, like it, dislike it, believe it or anything.. you have no idea whats in that thing. I gave you the definition of day... you gave me a deffenition of some stars and bullshit. Im not talking about the day as we know it. You're not getting what Im saying either.. and to be honest I really don't see the point in explaining to you. But I was talking about a day in Gods universe.. or whatever he lives in :) God lives in Heaven, a day there is probably .. yeah! I don't know if there is anything called night.. who knows? But whatever, you don't understand, And you don't want to understand, so whats the point? Don't you think if you can't come up with some answer it might all just be a load of crap? And I don't mean coming up with fantasy, I mean real possibilities, through logical thinking. You come up with as much crap as I do.. you going all about evidence and stuff. Why do you do that? Because you BELIEVE in evidence. So to me, your text is just as much crap, as mine is to yours. Like a chinese reading english, and a american reading chinese. Why not wait with the earth? Whats the rush? 2
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We are not created by any god. There is no god. My point was. If religious people regard humans as being created by a god then would humans also be gods if we created life of our own design? "Your a Nob"? Nob? You mean "noob"? Oh, and it is "you're" not "your". You've got some learning and growing up to do. Just one last thing... if you think there absolutely is a god then you've got things to sort out in your mind. Another last thing... "Lower" life forms? Really? If you think humans were created by a god then you're lower than dogs who cannot even comprehend the concept of god, not to mention worship one. And yet they are alive and mostly happy. One more last thing... Created to worship??? Stupid much? I don't worship anyone, neither do I need to. Religion aside, no i do not think they would be. We have still yet to master creating living organisms. Of course, we are just beginning to clone people/sheep! But we are not engineering people. Robots, with an A.I. are only held together with wires and bolts. They have no soul, feelings, and what you call A.I. i call the same as a calculator, or a computer, or a fax machine. Its all the same. You just add a voice. Perhaps you didnt read the description of the debate and I take it that given the development of DNA computing id say that its not impossible to develop living organisms in a manner that can support AI. Besides calculators and such use basic I/O bits where as developments in quantum computing/mechanics use far superior qubits which could make AI of the nature in which he is speaking very possible. Besides all of that, any life form or any electronic device have one thing in common in that they are all just some sort of manipulation of energy/power and what do all living organisms have in common that current machines do not, the ability of wanting and knowing how to survive to stay live, come up with a equation or formula and i am pretty sure AI will be at its best and with quantum computing on the horizon i am sure that will make it that much easier to come up with a formula/equation that can support this. Fool! These machines could have been built better. Built. They could have been built. Meaning, they were engineered. One person decided the red wire goes here, and it will have __ much space, and it will have a voice like these, and it will work at ___ speed. Its all just engineering. Just something we built. It is not a living thing. As you said, we evolved from the likes of jelly fish. They didn't. And they never will. Why are you disputing what i say, when in fact you are clarifying it?! Meaning, they were engineered They were engineered to have free will. Engineered to be able to think, learn, use resources to build more of their kind, to advance and improve themselves, to do whatever they can think of, all that without the help of the ones who made them. One person decided the red wire goes here, and it will have __ much space, and it will have a voice like these, and it will work at ___ speed. That is the process of their creation. Once that is done they are free to "live" as they want. And them having a voice as humans do, for communication, is not even necessary. There are other means of communication. Its all just engineering. It is all just engineering until they begin advancing (engineering) themselves, without humans' interaction. And they never will. It wouldn't be exactly evolving but similar, the outcome would come faster and would be pretty much the same. They would adapt (redesign) themselves to new conditions. It is something even humans might one day be able to do through genetic engineering. Not that I would like that, just a possibility. Just something we built. Something we built to exist however they want. As you said, we evolved from the likes of jelly fish. They didn't. Exactly. We evolved to have free will, to have abstract thinking, while they were built by us to have similar properties. Why are you disputing what i say, when in fact you are clarifying it?! Life is something that can spread, have children, adapt to new conditions, and through all that survive (intelligent and abstract thinking is not even necessary). The A.I. I am referring to has all those characteristics, plus intelligent and abstract thinking. They could advance their knowledge that far as to make themselves "cellular" and hereditary, and at the same time keep the capability of knowingly customizing themselves. In case you think life should have something like cells and something similar to DNA. Through that description they would be life but unlike what we are used to. You are referring to them as machines when they are more than that. If not life then what? Sir i respect your views, but fail to comprehend, how you can relate the human cell to a machine. They are two completely different things. The human body is far more complex that your machines. If i asked it what does it prefer, chocolate or vanilla, it would not give a human answer. It would pick up some stats about which is more popular, and give that as an answer. If you asked it what color to paint a room, it would consider what would contrast more, and give you that as an answer. It can not give a human answer. I also like how, in your own defense, you call the A.I. It still, despite claiming it is human. And if not life, then. Machine. Please, send me a link to your source of information, if not your own, as i fear we are talking about two very different things. Sir i respect your views, but fail to comprehend, how you can relate the human cell to a machine. You know the "structure" of cells? If machines (nano-machines, i guess) can work in a similar way, has a similar structure, and is as small or smaller than our cells then how is it not a cell? They are two completely different things. Different yes, but similar. The human body is far more complex that your machines. From their initial version they would be. But if they were to make themselves cellular then they could become as complex or more likely even more complex. If i asked it what does it prefer, chocolate or vanilla, it would not give a human answer. It would pick up some stats about which is more popular, and give that as an answer. If you asked it what color to paint a room, it would consider what would contrast more, and give you that as an answer. I don't think it would give any answer, as it would be irrelevant to them. As to what to paint the room, I think it would need to know more about the person who asked it and find a logical conclusion of what that person might prefer more. I also like how, in your own defense, you call the A.I. It still, despite claiming it is human. I never claimed it is human, I claimed it is human-like with its ability for intelligent and abstract thought. Artificial stands for being built, not grown like we are. Please, send me a link to your source of information, if not your own, as i fear we are talking about two very different things. My source of information is a simple googling. And finding "possibilities" from the information obtained. Synthetic Life. Artificial Life. Synthetic Intelligence. Artificial Intelligence. All highly debatable. If humans were to build something from scratch (assuming the science and technology for that was available) and the outcome was something just like human in every aspect but was still built, would that be a machine? You stated, "Robots, with an A.I. are only held together with wires and bolts. They have no soul, feelings, and what you call A.I. i call the same as a calculator, or a computer, or a fax machine. Its all the same." It is not all the same. Calculators, computers, fax machines, etc., cannot think for themselves. They have a predesigned programming that they follow every time, they cannot learn new things. A.I.s' initial programming is designed for it to have self-consciousness and the ability to learn. This is my issue here. You claim something as just a machine when it is more than that because it can think for itself, spread and advance itself. When it could be considered a person. Person is someone who has consciousness and rational thought. I think I gave a pretty good example earlier that jungelson should have been be able to understand but for some reason he seemed to skip my response and go to yours guess he has no way of arguing against my logic the way I put it but your example and explanations were pretty easy to understand so I have no clue how he cant comprehend what type of AI is being spoken of. |
