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Thank God for what you have, TRUST GOD for what you need
For
Side Score: 25
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Against
Side Score: 34
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3
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I take "god" to mean anything that I can't affect or have little control over. Perhaps meaning the universe considered religiously or the imagined beign who gave us lucky ones the gift of life. I believe that is what it practically means in this sentence. A lot of what religion deals with is that which we can't affect. Religious or not you can't affect everything that comes your way. I am thankful the gift of life and I try to give that gift back. You need the element of "trust" to live in peace and not waste these precious moments. Side: For
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I believe it is alright since there is nothing wrong with it for Christians. Since it helps us be calm and humble in the things we see. We may enjoy life better. There is no need for proof for believers since they have already made a commitment and hope that everything will turn out as they have thought. it may be risky, but it is a risk worth taking. Side: For
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I went to thank god many times but I found him no where. I searched him a lot and finally found him in the dictionary of my brain. It was a synonym for "Fiction". I will give you an example - A person who gives us, we love them in return. Our parents gave us life and we love them and this is case everywhere. But what did fictious-god ask in return. He asked us to worship him, pray to him, beg before him and I don't think the god you imagine can't be so selfish and foolish. God was an idea used by priests to fool people and make them slaves. And this is what people have become, Slaves and beggars asking for everything to god. Stop begging and live life. Break the shackles on which god is written and are binding us....!! Side: Against
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You have only yourself and others to thank for what you have. Give yourself credit where credit is due, it probably wasn't an imaginary being named God/Jesus. Trusting God for what you need is like still believing santa puts presents underneath the tree. Tell me, why is it that prayer is no better than random statistical chance? A religious believer's explanation for Prayer: Prayer Logic Side: Against
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Of course believing in God is silly, there is no evidence for it! Doing things in the name of Jesus is how politicians fool their gullible constituents, it's how war mongerer's justify their horrifying actions. Doing things in the name of god is how people justify denying homosexual couples their right to marry whomever they choose. Doing things in the name of god is why stem cell research is "evil" or "wrong". Doing things in the name of god is why people are trying to teach creationism in school as an actual science, while at the same time they're trying to undo the progress that the theory of evolution has made by casting the theory into uncertainty and doubt. It's silly for an adult to believe in santa clause, fairies, werewolves, etc, but it's not silly to believe in god? Why is that when all of them have essentially no evidence? Side: Against
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However, God does have evidence. The most important one being the Bible. I get how unrealistic He may seem to you, but that's because you have no reason to believe in God. You believe in His non-existence as much as I believe in His existence. Of course I know that some people might just claim they're doing certain stuff "in the name of Jesus" when that's not true, but that doesn't apply to everyone. When pastors heal those who are sick, they're doing it in the name of Jesus? How is that wrong? Side: For
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However, God does have evidence. The most important one being the Bible. The bible is not credible evidence for god any more than superhero comics are evidence for superhero's. You believe in His non-existence as much as I believe in His existence. No, your belief in his existence is stronger or more certain than my belief or certainty in his non existence. Your belief does not lie on credible evidence, my belief does. I could be presented evidence to believe in essentially anything so long as the evidence warrants that belief. You however would likely continue believing in god despite all the evidence to the contrary, which is the situation we are in now. You choose to ignore scientific evidence in favor of biblical "evidence". The bible isn't any credible source of evidence for belief in god. When pastors heal those who are sick, they're doing it in the name of Jesus? How is that wrong? It's not wrong, it's just silly and superstitious. A pastor without any medical knowledge is no more capable of "healing" someone than you or I or any layman on the street. Prayer does not heal, nor do blessings. And this is something that can and has been tested. Side: Against
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"[The Atheist] rejects God. He rejects the creation of the world by God. He rejects the deity of Christ. He rejects God’s Word." That was from this article I read a while ago.. I understand your inability to believe. I can't change that, but the Bible is still evidence for me. Also, I agree that my belief is stronger. After all, I mostly believe in God because of my faith, and faith is very much on believing that which cannot be seen. Prayer does not heal, nor do blessings. And this is something that can and has been tested. I would very much like to read this evidence, because it seems kind of silly... lol. Prayers do heal. You're just supposed to have strong enough faith. I'm surrounded by miracles every Sunday, so it's easy enough for me to understand this. Side: For
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Also, I agree that my belief is stronger. After all, I mostly believe in God because of my faith, and faith is very much on believing that which cannot be seen. Stronger in the sense that it is more certain. Meaning it is more dogmatic. If some evidence were discovered making God insanely unlikely to exist, would you continue believing in god? If you answer yes, you are closed minded and dogmatic. If you answer no, you are open minded. All I am saying is do not be so convinced of a conclusion that you will never change your position on a subject. Be open minded, and open to change, be open to the possibility that you may be wrong. Excerpt: For instance, a 2006 meta analysis on 14 studies concluded that there is "no discernable effect" while a 2007 systemic review of intercessory prayer reported inconclusive results, noting that 7 of 17 studies had "small, but significant, effect sizes" but the review noted that the most methodologically rigorous studies failed to produce significant findings.[2][3] Prayers do heal There is no known mechanism through which they would work. How are words from someone's mouth going to cause a tumor to heal itself? Prayer almost certainly does not heal for there is no known mechanism through which it would work. You're just supposed to have strong enough faith. That has nothing to do with it. The amount you believe your prayer will work, has no effect on the actual effect of the prayer. I'm surrounded by miracles every Sunday, so it's easy enough for me to understand this. I'm doubtful. Side: Against
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If some evidence were discovered making God insanely unlikely to exist, would you continue believing in god? It depends on the evidence I suppose.. my imagination however doesn't extend that far. All I am saying is do not be so convinced of a conclusion that you will never change your position on a subject. Be open minded, and open to change, be open to the possibility that you may be wrong. I am open to the possibility that I may be wrong. That's why I can't wait till I live till I'm 70+, and eventually die. I wanna know for sure if I was right the entire time, or wrong. Prayer almost certainly does not heal for there is no known mechanism through which it would work. It does. My dad prays for people every Sunday, and I see them being healed. I see the 'demons' coming out of them, and I can honestly say that if that's just acting, that's some pretty frickin' amazing acting. That has nothing to do with it. The amount you believe your prayer will work, has no effect on the actual effect of the prayer. Yes, it does. A lot. Mark 11:23, "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, go throw yourself into the sea, and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that he says will happen, it will be done for him." I'm doubtful. Obviously. I don't know you and you don't know me. It's understandable that you don't trust me. Side: For
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It depends on the evidence I suppose.. my imagination however doesn't extend that far. What the evidence is is irrelevant. I'm saying, hypothetically, if evidence came forth strongly suggesting that god almost certainly does not exist, would you continue believing in god? I am open to the possibility that I may be wrong. That's why I can't wait till I live till I'm 70+, and eventually die. I wanna know for sure if I was right the entire time, or wrong. If you are right, and God does exist, then you will know that you are right because your existence won't end when you die. If you are wrong, and god does not exist, then you will never know if you were right because you will cease to exist when you die. You will revert back to the state before you were born. The state of non existence. There is no evidence to suggest anything different than what I described will happen. It does. My dad prays for people every Sunday, and I see them being healed. I see the 'demons' coming out of them, and I can honestly say that if that's just acting, that's some pretty frickin' amazing acting. So if scientists were to bring a cancer patient to your church this sunday, your dad could heal them? The thing is, the prayer itself has no magical or spiritual powers. The evidence does not back that assertion. People believe it works, but that does not mean it does work. Prayer can have a considerable impact on your mental state and your emotions, but this is only because people strongly believe that prayer works or that their god is listening to them. Prayer can have calming effects and can put some people in a sort of semi meditation. It is the calming effects, the reassurance, and the semi meditation that can have positive effects. Not because your prayers are being answered by a god, or because prayer has special powers. It's acting or mental illness. You aren't seeing demons come out of them. I've tried summoning demons, I've tried summoning satan with black magic and ouija boards. None of that stuff works. Yes, it does. A lot. Quoting scripture does not prove your case. Cite a scientific article or peer reviewed journal and I'll change my mind. Until then, the amount you believe your prayer will work has no effect on the real world. If everyone prayed that the moon would turn into cheese, the moon would not turn into cheese. Even if we brainwashed a bunch of children into thinking that prayer works and that a god would answer their prayers, causing them to genuinely and sincerely believe that their prayers should work, that will not make the moon turn into cheese. Obviously. I don't know you and you don't know me. It's understandable that you don't trust me. It's almost certainly not a miracle, but just a natural event or a misinterpretation on your part. Side: Against
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What the evidence is is irrelevant. I'm saying, hypothetically, if evidence came forth strongly suggesting that god almost certainly does not exist, would you continue believing in god? I repeat. It depends on the evidence. I also repeat again, my imagination does not extend that far. If you are wrong, and god does not exist, then you will never know if you were right because you will cease to exist when you die. You will revert back to the state before you were born. The state of non existence. There is no evidence to suggest anything different than what I described will happen. Huh. Sounds unappealing, the whole ceasing to exist thing. Also, there is evidence to suggest otherwise. The Bible. So if scientists were to bring a cancer patient to your church this sunday, your dad could heal them? No, but if he/she was taken to another pastor with greater faith and more spiritual power, like Pastor Chris or Benny Hinn, or Joel Osteen, then yes. Prayer can have calming effects and can put some people in a sort of semi meditation. It is the calming effects, the reassurance, and the semi meditation that can have positive effects. Yes, those positive effects are the healing. I don't see how that's any different than going to a clinic or hospital and receiving tablets (most of which these days are placebos). It's acting or mental illness. You aren't seeing demons come out of them. I've tried summoning demons, I've tried summoning satan with black magic and ouija boards. None of that stuff works. Mental illness? Mental illness?! Oh, wow. I just.... never mind. On a more serious note, I don't think summoning the devil is a good idea. He's not exactly a 'good guy'. Quoting scripture does not prove your case. Cite a scientific article or peer reviewed journal and I'll change my mind. Until then, the amount you believe your prayer will work has no effect on the real world. A scientific article? You want me to prove my beliefs with science? Umm, no. Actually, I would like to, but I do not see how I possibly could. Isn't science completely against religion? If everyone prayed that the moon would turn into cheese, the moon would not turn into cheese. Because if the moon turned into cheese, we would die (I think). I don't see how God would answer a prayer that would end human life. It's almost certainly not a miracle, but just a natural event or a misinterpretation on your part. Whatever floats your boat. You have your theories, and I have mine. Side: For
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I repeat. It depends on the evidence. I also repeat again, my imagination does not extend that far. The evidence itself is not important in this hypothetical situation. We are only looking at the effect evidence X has. The effect it has is that it throws the possibility of god existing to near impossibility. Would you still believe in god at this point? Huh. Sounds unappealing, the whole ceasing to exist thing. Also, there is evidence to suggest otherwise. The Bible. So you reject that idea because is sounds unappealing? And then you cite the bible as evidence? First, just because you dislike an idea, how does that make it false? Second, since when is the bible credible evidence? No, but if he/she was taken to another pastor with greater faith and more spiritual power, like Pastor Chris or Benny Hinn, or Joel Osteen, then yes. Then why aren't any of the pastor's you mentioned curing the millions of people who have cancer? Why aren't the pastor's you mentioned helping scientists develop a cure? If they have some magical power called prayer and faith that can cure sick patients, why aren't they doing anything with it? The fact is prayer and faith cannot heal the sick. It has not been proven. Tests on prayer show that prayer is no more effective than random chance. Various, broader meta-studies of the literature in the field have been performed showing evidence only for no effect or a potentially small effect.. For instance, a 2006 meta analysis on 14 studies concluded that "There is no scientifically discernable effect for intercessory prayer as assessed in controlled studies" Yes, those positive effects are the healing. I don't see how that's any different than going to a clinic or hospital and receiving tablets (most of which these days are placebos). You are correct on one thing, prayer can have a placebo effect. If those are the positive effects, then its not the prayer itself that has anything magical or some connection to god. It is just putting you personally in a different mindset that calms you and such. As well as the placebo effect on the person you are praying for, if they are made aware of you praying for them. If they are not made aware, then statistical chance takes over. Mental illness? Mental illness?! Oh, wow. I just.... never mind. On a more serious note, I don't think summoning the devil is a good idea. He's not exactly a 'good guy'. You forgot the acting part. How do you even know demons exist? They haven't been proven to exist. I've done my own tests on provoking them to appear and they so far have been too afraid to show up, or they simply don't exist. Science has found nothing to indicate that supernatural being could or should exist either. There is no evidence for demons. But there is plenty of evidence for mental illness which suits "demonic possession" quite well. I don't care if he's a good guy or not. If he or anything supernatural exists, I would like to know. So far, supernatural stuff either does not exist, or they are unwilling to show themselves to me. I find the latter option highly unlikely, seeing as how I've been doing this for several months now. A scientific article? You want me to prove my beliefs with science? Umm, no. Actually, I would like to, but I do not see how I possibly could. Isn't science completely against religion? With what other method would you prove anything? I didn't realize there was an alternative method for proving things other than the scientific method. Because if the moon turned into cheese, we would die (I think). I don't see how God would answer a prayer that would end human life. Why does god make yours and your parents lives better, while he lets kids in africa starve, get raped, have AIDS, etc. ? People in America pray for first world problems, thing like "god I need this raise". Africa has a sizable christian population, and they certainly do pray to god, but god doesn't answer their prayers. He lets them die from basic things like lack of clean water, lack of food, lack of a home. Either god doesn't care, he's punishing them for something, or he doesn't exist. Whatever floats your boat. You have your theories, and I have mine. My "theories" have evidence behind them. Your hypothesis do not. Side: Against
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The evidence itself is not important in this hypothetical situation. We are only looking at the effect evidence X has. The effect it has is that it throws the possibility of god existing to near impossibility. Would you still believe in god at this point? Probably. So you reject that idea because is sounds unappealing? And then you cite the bible as evidence? First, just because you dislike an idea, how does that make it false? Second, since when is the bible credible evidence? I didn't say it was false. I just said that it sounded unappealing. It may be true. Who knows. Also, the Bible has always been credible evidence, but atheists choose to ignore this. Then why aren't any of the pastor's you mentioned curing the millions of people who have cancer? Why aren't the pastor's you mentioned helping scientists develop a cure? If they have some magical power called prayer and faith that can cure sick patients, why aren't they doing anything with it? They aren't curing the millions of people who have cancer because not everyone believes in God, and is willing to be prayed for. Most people only trust doctors. You are correct on one thing, prayer can have a placebo effect. If those are the positive effects, then its not the prayer itself that has anything magical or some connection to god. I don't think so. Especially when people possessed by demons are prayed for. There is no placebo effect in that situation. That person is healed through prayer. You forgot the acting part. How do you even know demons exist? They haven't been proven to exist. I've done my own tests on provoking them to appear and they so far have been too afraid to show up, or they simply don't exist. Science has found nothing to indicate that supernatural being could or should exist either. There is no evidence for demons. But there is plenty of evidence for mental illness which suits "demonic possession" quite well. There is evidence on demons. You know those hauntings that people experience? Not ghosts (ghosts do not exist) but demons, or angels. I find the latter option highly unlikely, seeing as how I've been doing this for several months now. Maybe it's because you're only doing it to prove you're right, and not because you actually believe it will work. With what other method would you prove anything? I didn't realize there was an alternative method for proving things other than the scientific method. Science is very limited and narrow-minded. It cannot be used to prove and explain everything. Why does god make yours and your parents lives better, while he lets kids in africa starve, get raped, have AIDS, etc. ? People in America pray for first world problems, thing like "god I need this raise". Africa has a sizable christian population, and they certainly do pray to god, but god doesn't answer their prayers. He lets them die from basic things like lack of clean water, lack of food, lack of a home. Either god doesn't care, he's punishing them for something, or he doesn't exist. I don't know man. I just don't know. However, He doesn't only answer my prayers, He answers many prayers. It's depressing that so many people die all the time, but that's life. I don't know why it's like that, but it is. My "theories" have evidence behind them. Your hypothesis do not. It has evidence, you just choose to deny it (how many times have I said that?). Side: For
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Probably This only proves that you are closed minded and dogmatic in your belief of god. Essentially, no amount of evidence will shake your belief in god, and this is foolish. Also, the Bible has always been credible evidence, but atheists choose to ignore this. Actually, the bible has never been credible evidence. It is just words on paper that formed a book. They aren't curing the millions of people who have cancer because not everyone believes in God, and is willing to be prayed for. Most people only trust doctors. Billions of people believe in some form of god. Christianity makes up 2 billion. And yet we still have millions of cancer deaths every year, even though you claim that the people you mentioned are perfectly capable of curing cancer. The fact is, none of the people you mentioned can cure cancer. Only scientists can do that. Your pastor's are not scientists, they are charlatans if they actually claim that. I don't think so. Especially when people possessed by demons are prayed for. There is no placebo effect in that situation. That person is healed through prayer. It's mental illness or an act. There is no evidence for demons possessing people. There is evidence on demons. You know those hauntings that people experience? Not ghosts (ghosts do not exist) but demons, or angels. There is no proof or evidence that these ghosts, entities, demons, or angels actually exist when people go and explore these locations. Maybe it's because you're only doing it to prove you're right, and not because you actually believe it will work. Quite the contrary actually. When I first started, I was quite frightened by what I might encounter. I even went to a local haunted cemetery alone. Through all my experiences and attempts so far, nothing has been supernatural or unexplained. Science is very limited and narrow-minded. It cannot be used to prove and explain everything. That would actually be false. Science is open to anything. Science will not take your word on it. You have to prove it. Turns out that every single supernatural claim can never be proven. Or, every single supernatural claim that has been proven, has been shown to have a naturalistic cause. Every single mystery that we have ever discovered or gotten to the bottom of has always every single time through all of history always had a NATURALISTIC explanation. There has never once been a mystery that was conclusively proven to have a supernatural explanation. I don't know man. I just don't know. However, He doesn't only answer my prayers, He answers many prayers. It's depressing that so many people die all the time, but that's life. I don't know why it's like that, but it is. If god exists he either doesn't care about the africans, or he's punishing them. I think it's more likely that god simply does not exist. It has evidence, you just choose to deny it (how many times have I said that?). You haven't presented any credible evidence at all! The bible is not credible evidence. How do you know that everything in the bible is true? How do you know its the word of god? The fact is you cannot know that the bible is true, you must accept on faith that the bible is true. No evidence necessary, conveniently. As for how is the bible the word of god, many christians tell me "because the bible says it is". But this is just circular reasoning and does not prove that the bible really is the word of god. A book can claim anything it wants but that doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Side: Against
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This only proves that you are closed minded and dogmatic in your belief of god. Essentially, no amount of evidence will shake your belief in god, and this is foolish. Well... it's only because I strongly believe in God and in His existence, that I can't just say that if enough evidence were given, I would stop believing in Him. He's a huge part of my life and family. I wouldn't just drop religion in a second if enough proof was found... It would take some time. But I would stop believing in Him if concrete, credible and convincing evidence was found (oh, and understandable too). Actually, the bible has never been credible evidence. It is just words on paper that formed a book. In your opinion. To me, and other Christians, it's God's words, documenting what happened in the Old Testament and during Jesus' life on Earth, and even afterwards. The fact is, none of the people you mentioned can cure cancer. Only scientists can do that. Your pastor's are not scientists, they are charlatans if they actually claim that. How do you know? Have you visited these pastors? Have you gone to these Churches? Do you even know what you're stating? You're just assuming they're false, when you don't even really know what they do, and how they help people. It's mental illness or an act. There is no evidence for demons possessing people. You can't just claim everyone who goes to Church to seek help is mentally ill. They really could be possessed by demons. Especially when you start thinking of witch doctors and all that. There is no proof or evidence that these ghosts, entities, demons, or angels actually exist when people go and explore these locations. So these strange occurrences are just coincidences? Is that what you're saying? Through all my experiences and attempts so far, nothing has been supernatural or unexplained. Probably for the best. 'Better safe than sorry' and all that. You never know what could happen if you keep trying. There has never once been a mystery that was conclusively proven to have a supernatural explanation. We shall see. If god exists he either doesn't care about the africans, or he's punishing them. I think it's more likely that god simply does not exist. It's not only Africans, many people are suffering in the world. You don't know that He doesn't care about them. There could be reasons for why the world is the way it is. Just because there's suffering and pain, and the world isn't paradise does not mean God does not exist. In fact, what would be the point in living on Earth then? It would basically be heaven? Not to say that people should suffer, but I'm just saying... The fact is you cannot know that the bible is true, you must accept on faith that the bible is true. No evidence necessary, conveniently. Yes, that's the whole point of faith. I know the Bible is true because I believe in it. Why? It's just faith. Side: For
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But I would stop believing in Him if concrete, credible and convincing evidence was found (oh, and understandable too). That's what I said. I wasn't talking about random evidence down the street. Like worldwide news, undeniable, indesputable, evidence that god almost certainly does not exist. (You cannot prove the non existence of something) In your opinion. To me, and other Christians, it's God's words, documenting what happened in the Old Testament and during Jesus' life on Earth, and even afterwards. No, it is a fact that the bible is not credible evidence. We have no reason to believe that all the stories in the bible are 100% true or accurate. It can be your opinion that god exists, just as it is some people's opinion that elvis is still alive, despite evidence to the contrary. How do you know? Have you visited these pastors? Have you gone to these Churches? Do you even know what you're stating? You're just assuming they're false, when you don't even really know what they do, and how they help people. Do you have a source for these pastor's claiming to be able to cure cancer? Let's deal with that first, then we'll deal with the pastor's if they genuinely claim that. Can you find me a single pastor who says he can cure cancer? You can't just claim everyone who goes to Church to seek help is mentally ill. They really could be possessed by demons. Especially when you start thinking of witch doctors and all that. Mental illness doesn't always mean something truly horrific. Depression is a mental disorder, and in some cases excessive attention seeking can be too. Witch doctors are nonsense. You have no evidence to base your "demon possession" on. So these strange occurrences are just coincidences? Is that what you're saying? Not coincidences. I believe there is something to them, but the difference between me and religious people is that I believe there is a naturalistic explanation for this. Religious and superstitious people believe there is a supernatural explanation for this. Only problem is that every single mystery that has EVER been solved has always had a NATURALISTIC explanation. So why would that change now? The sun used to be a god, the moon used to be a good, the ocean used to be a god, lightning used to be a god, wind used to be a god. All these clearly inanimate objects used to be gods, until science showed us that they were not gods, but merely aspects of the natural world. Probably for the best. 'Better safe than sorry' and all that. You never know what could happen if you keep trying. I'll continue summoning the devil, demons, opening portals to hell, and inviting every evil spirit possible. Createdebate will be the first to know if anything happens. Several months in, it's looking like they're fake. It only exists in people's imaginations or they misinterpret what they see/experience. We shall see. This is a fact. Never once have we gotten to the bottom of a mystery and said "gosh darn, it was god all along!". Every single time we've solved a mystery, it was a naturalistic explanation. "Change in air pressure caused the door to slam shut. Not a ghost". It's not only Africans, many people are suffering in the world. You don't know that He doesn't care about them. There could be reasons for why the world is the way it is. Just because there's suffering and pain, and the world isn't paradise does not mean God does not exist. In fact, what would be the point in living on Earth then? It would basically be heaven? Not to say that people should suffer, but I'm just saying... If god exists, and judging by the completely insane amount of suffering on the planet, people just try to resort to the easy way out by saying "god works in mysterious ways" as if that's some answer to why evil things happen to good or innocent people. Yes, that's the whole point of faith. I know the Bible is true because I believe in it. Why? It's just faith. You do not know the bible is truth. You have this "illusion" of knowledge or truth, because of your faith. Just because you believe something, does not make it true. Side: Against
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That's what I said. I wasn't talking about random evidence down the street. Like worldwide news, undeniable, indesputable, evidence that god almost certainly does not exist. (You cannot prove the non existence of something) Okay, then sure. It would take some time to basically re-evaluate my life and all that, but yes. I would stop believing in Him in that case. No, it is a fact that the bible is not credible evidence. We have no reason to believe that all the stories in the bible are 100% true or accurate. I don't see how it can be a fact, because a fact is something everyone agrees on. Like how the Earth revolves around the Sun. That's a fact. The bible not being evidence is not a fact because millions of people read the Bible everyday, and believe in what it says. It's just your opinion. Do you have a source for these pastor's claiming to be able to cure cancer? Let's deal with that first, then we'll deal with the pastor's if they genuinely claim that. Can you find me a single pastor who says he can cure cancer? How do I do that? You can easily find out on your own by watching specific channels on DSTV. Where I live, we have this specific program called Emmanuel TV, where this Pastor heals thousands of people, all with a number of different, 'deadly' diseases. I don't know if you have that though... Witch doctors are nonsense. You have no evidence to base your "demon possession" on. Where you live, I suppose you have not been exposed to that kind of stuff. Where I live... there are 'things' people do, that cannot be classified as humane. I could post a video or something like that, but I'm not sure I'll be allowed to go take a video of these people. All these clearly inanimate objects used to be gods, until science showed us that they were not gods, but merely aspects of the natural world. Science again. Sure, I can't really say anything to convince you that science could sometimes be wrong. I believe in the supernatural, you believe in the natural. Fine. It only exists in people's imaginations or they misinterpret what they see/experience. That's a sign that you don't have faith in what you're trying to do. You don't really believe it will work, but you keep trying anyway, and when it doesn't work (obviously), you claim to be right. If god exists, and judging by the completely insane amount of suffering on the planet, people just try to resort to the easy way out by saying "god works in mysterious ways" as if that's some answer to why evil things happen to good or innocent people. It's easy enough to blame God for the awful things taking place in the world, but that's what creates more problems. God did not create suffering or poverty, mankind did. Just because people are suffering, does not mean it's God's fault. It's our fault. We made certain decisions that led us to this point. So, instead of trying to use the situation we are in to prove God doesn't exist, we should be thinking of ways to solve the issues we caused. You do not know the bible is truth. You have this "illusion" of knowledge or truth, because of your faith. Just because you believe something, does not make it true. It's not an illusion. The Bible is the truth. You're not Christian, you don't read the Bible, you don't believe in God, so obviously you would think I'm delusional for believing in the Bible. Also, I have reasons for believing in God. I don't just believe in Him for the sake of believing in Him. These reasons enforce my belief. Side: For
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Okay, then sure. It would take some time to basically re-evaluate my life and all that, but yes. I would stop believing in Him in that case. Good! I myself am open to god's existence, so long as the evidence warrants a belief in god. In my experience, I have found no evidence to warrant a belief in God. I don't see how it can be a fact, because a fact is something everyone agrees on. Like how the Earth revolves around the Sun. That's a fact. The bible not being evidence is not a fact because millions of people read the Bible everyday, and believe in what it says. It's just your opinion. What makes the bible's word fact and truth? The opinion of millions and billions of people does not make something fact, nor does it make something true. And this isn't just my opinion. When I ask religious people how they know the bible is true, they say because it says so in the bible that it's the truth. Obviously, this is circular reasoning. The bible is telling them that the bible is true. How do I do that? You can easily find out on your own by watching specific channels on DSTV. Where I live, we have this specific program called Emmanuel TV, where this Pastor heals thousands of people, all with a number of different, 'deadly' diseases. I don't know if you have that though... By using google. Search some key words associated with what you watched, then post a link here so I can see it. This pastor you're talking about is almost certainly a fraud if he claims to be able to cure deadly diseases through prayer and blessings alone. I would honestly bet you everything I own, that he cannot heal deadly diseases through prayer and blessings alone. Where you live, I suppose you have not been exposed to that kind of stuff. Where I live... there are 'things' people do, that cannot be classified as humane. I could post a video or something like that, but I'm not sure I'll be allowed to go take a video of these people. I have been looking for the supernatural for many months now. No results. I've tried provoking them, insulting them, magic, nothing works. Video would be nice, but it wouldn't convince me of their existence really. I'd have to experience it myself. Science again. Sure, I can't really say anything to convince you that science could sometimes be wrong. I believe in the supernatural, you believe in the natural. Fine. What makes you think that I believe science can never be wrong? That's nonsense. Science can always be wrong. It's just in some cases the science is almost certainly not wrong, like with the case of the Theory of Evolution, we're virtually guaranteed to never find any evidence that would turn the theory upside down or invalidate it completely. It would be like finding evidence that we don't orbit the sun, that's how concrete the Theory of Evolution is. That's a sign that you don't have faith in what you're trying to do. You don't really believe it will work, but you keep trying anyway, and when it doesn't work (obviously), you claim to be right. My faith in something will not affect the outcome. Like, if I'm trying to start my car and it just won't start, if I "have faith" that it will start, that's not going to make it start. The neurons firing off in my brain that cause me to believe it will start with this next key turn, will do literally nothing to the ignition system in my engine to start my vehicle. And just so you know, when I first started this paranormal adventure, I was very afraid at first. I had two friends who were close to me that convinced me that it was real, so I decided to take the plunge and go all in and provoke this stuff. I was scared at first, but nothing ever happened. So I had the "faith" at first, it went away after quite a few attempts with nothing ever happening. It's easy enough to blame God for the awful things taking place in the world, but that's what creates more problems. God did not create suffering or poverty, mankind did. Just because people are suffering, does not mean it's God's fault. It's our fault. We made certain decisions that led us to this point. So, instead of trying to use the situation we are in to prove God doesn't exist, we should be thinking of ways to solve the issues we caused. I'm saying he pretty much doesn't exist. But assuming he does exist: If he's all good, and all powerful, why does he simply do nothing and let babies and children die the most horrific deaths? Some people throw babies in the garbage can, or leave them in their car in the intense heat, and god does nothing. So the babies die a horrible, painful death, while god just watches and says "hmm there's a baby in a dumpster, I could save it...but I'll choose not to. It's mankinds fault anyways". The Bible is the truth. How do you know its the truth? You're not Christian, you don't read the Bible, you don't believe in God, so obviously you would think I'm delusional for believing in the Bible. I'm not a christian. I do read the bible. I do not believe in god, because there is no evidence to warrant a belief in him. I think you're delusional for believing in the bible because you have no evidence that would justify a belief that the bible is the truth. Side: Against
Is that why the crusades worked so well? Or why ...every war that has ever been waged in the name of god has uh...well, if success is killing people, then, yes I guess you are right, all wars are successful in the ending of life. Thank you god. I don't know. I think it's rather silly. It makes no sense at all. Side: Against
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Different backgrounds...? No, you are still wrong about that. I was once Christian, just like you. Religion is a choice. Are you going to choose to believe in a supernatural, superstitious and magical world? Or are you going to accept that maybe god doesn't help you specially. He sure as fuck doesn't help dying Africans. Children. I find it almost offensive that you say that he gives you such bountiful gifts, but leaves others so hungry for doing nothing wrong. I would say it is 100% you, and the people and environment around you that is enabling you to do good things. Where is this hand of god? I don't see it. Certainly not around people who are starving for no reason. It's not their fault. Side: Against
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Why did you stop being Christian? Just asking out of curiosity.. I choose to accept that God does help me.. a lot. It's not like I depend on Him for everything, but he's like a motivator for what I do. I still have to work just as hard as anyone else, especially in school, but He's there for me. It's sad that children are dying, people are living in poverty, civilians are being murdered, etc. However, God is trying to help them. How? Through the preaching and healing that pastors do all over the world. Why doesn't He "fix" the entire world on His own? I can't honestly answer that, because I don't know. When I found out, I'll let you know. Also, I know I do good things on my own sometimes. It's not like in the Bible it states to not litter, or anything like that, but I still do that anyway. I'm all about saving the environment, or accepting homosexuals, etc. Yes, that's me. Does not mean that God still doesn't help me in other aspects of my life. Side: For
I stopped being Christian because I realized that gods were not real. It's make believe. It's fun to believe, I suppose, but when it comes down to truth vs not truth, I do not think that god is true. It is just a make believe story that is hurting people. Pastors don't help people. Anyone can help people. All it takes is hard work, not a god. Religious people telling Africans in the most AIDS devastated places to not use condoms is insane and evil. I am sure that you believe, so go ahead, but I do not think that it is real or that it is good or kind. Side: Against
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Who said that? You can redefine faith all you want, I guess. I guess I also have faith that the sun will shine tomorrow too. I have faith that unicorns will not assault me on my way to school, so I don't wear my unicorn protection vest. I guess I have faith that your god isn't real, so I won't worship something I don't have faith in. I don't really know what you are trying to say. You are just twisting words and being deceptive like a typical religious person. Fuck you. "I understand where you're coming from, so I'm not going to try and convince you of anything. " You're a fucking liar and you disgust me. You have no understanding of my position. You just lied to try to gain my trust or something. Religious people are so deceptive. I can't trust you or your religion for even a second. Why don't you stop lying for a second and try to focus on why you believe what you do? Prove your god or GTFO. Don't tell me you understand my position and then write something that clearly indicates you don't have the slightest idea. You are acting as brainwashed as any religious person. I deeply pity you. But it's willful ignorance, isn't it? You don't even care about the truth. Side: Against
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Who said that? http://www.sharefaith.com/guide/ You can redefine faith all you want, I guess. I guess I also have faith that the sun will shine tomorrow too. I have faith that unicorns will not assault me on my way to school, so I don't wear my unicorn protection vest. I guess I have faith that your god isn't real, so I won't worship something I don't have faith in. Umm, good for you? You are just twisting words and being deceptive like a typical religious person. Fuck you. o.o I am insulted (not really). I'm not twisting words, I'm just saying that faith isn't silly or ridiculous, it's the basis of believing in anything spiritual. You said: "a walk through an insane asylum proves faith doesn't mean much in the real world." It means very much. You're a fucking liar and you disgust me. What on Earth did I lie about? What?! You're just accusing me of something I did not do! You have no understanding of my position. You just lied to try to gain my trust or something. I was just proving a point. Oh. My. Frickin'. Lord. I don't want to gain your trust on anything. I'm just defending my beliefs. Prove your god or GTFO. Don't tell me you understand my position and then write something that clearly indicates you don't have the slightest idea. You are acting as brainwashed as any religious person. I deeply pity you. GTFO? Really? Oh come on. I also seriously don't understand what I did wrong. You said faith wasn't important, I quoted an article saying it is.. Where is the wrong in that? Why does that make me brainwashed? But it's willful ignorance, isn't it? You don't even care about the truth. I am speechless. And angry. Who said I didn't care about the truth? How are you even so sure that you're right and that you have the truth? You don't know whether you're right just as much as I don't. Don't start spewing crap about what science claims or how completely unrealistic God is, just don't. Also, don't tell me I don't care about the truth, because I do care. I care a hell lot more than you do. You don't think I question the existence of God sometimes? Do you really think that when my parents told me about God, I just accepted what they said? Do you honestly think that I agree with everything the Bible says? You know what? I really wanna swear at you, but I won't. So, whatever. Just.. whatever. Side: For
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Faith is not a requirement for atheism. That is what your link got wrong. It takes more faith to believe in god, than to disbelieve in god. Religious faith is belief without evidence. Me being an atheist, the things that I believe in have evidence, therefore they are justified beliefs. I'm just saying that faith isn't silly or ridiculous, it's the basis of believing in anything spiritual. It's silly and ridiculous to believe in anything without any justification or evidence for that belief. Who said I didn't care about the truth? It's what you imply when you have zero credible evidence for your beliefs. You choose to have blind faith, which is a complete absence of evidence for your position. You don't know whether you're right just as much as I don't. The odds certainly are not in your favor. Fairies and werewolves are more likely to exist than god is. And we all know that none of them are likely to exist at all in the first place. Don't start spewing crap about what science claims or how completely unrealistic God is, just don't But it's the truth. Also, don't tell me I don't care about the truth, because I do care. Then why do you believe in god despite a complete lack of evidence for God? I care a hell lot more than you do. Your complete lack of evidence indicates otherwise. You don't think I question the existence of God sometimes? You should question his existence more. Do you really think that when my parents told me about God, I just accepted what they said? Yes. That's what I and many others did. The statistics prove this. If your parents are religious, there is a high chance that you will become the same religion as your parents. Do you honestly think that I agree with everything the Bible says? If you're going to use the bible as "evidence" then what justification do you have to pick and choose which parts of the bible you want to believe? Christians do claim that it is the sacred word of God, after all. Side: Against
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Religious faith is belief without evidence. Me being an atheist, the things that I believe in have evidence, therefore they are justified beliefs. True. It's silly and ridiculous to believe in anything without any justification or evidence for that belief. No, it's not. It's silly to automatically disbelieve in anything that has no 'proper' evidence. Especially when the evidence given to you, you simply discard. It's what you imply when you have zero credible evidence for your beliefs. You choose to have blind faith, which is a complete absence of evidence for your position. I do have evidence, you just choose not to accept it. The odds certainly are not in your favor. Fairies and werewolves are more likely to exist than god is. And we all know that none of them are likely to exist at all in the first place. In your opinion. I believe that the odds are in my favour. If God really doesn't exist then we'll know in the end. Oh wait. We won't actually.. haha. If He does exist, then we'll know. But it's the truth. You've pretty much claimed you're right and I'm wrong. Umm, how do you know that? I would love for you to tell me, because I honestly disagree. But if that's what you strongly believe then, you know, whatever floats your boat. If you're going to use the bible as "evidence" then what justification do you have to pick and choose which parts of the bible you want to believe? Christians do claim that it is the sacred word of God, after all. I use the Bible as evidence because it proves the existence of God. Sure, it's the 'sacred word'. That does not mean I have to completely agree with everything written in it. That does not mean the Bible is false or unreal. Side: For
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No, it's not. It's silly to automatically disbelieve in anything that has no 'proper' evidence. Especially when the evidence given to you, you simply discard. Then why don't you believe in werewolves, bigfoot, the loch ness monster, the chupacabra, telepathy, telekinesis, or any other bull shit that conspiracy theorists come up with? You haven't given me any evidence for your beliefs. You claim the bible, but that's no different than me declaring spider man comics proof of spider man. I do have evidence, you just choose not to accept it. Again, no different than spider man comics. I believe that the odds are in my favour. What you believe will not change the facts. The fact is, there is no evidence that god exists. You've pretty much claimed you're right and I'm wrong. Umm, how do you know that? If you look at the science behind pretty much everything, you will find no evidence for god. Seeing as how there is no evidence for god, what makes you think that it's likely that he exists? I use the Bible as evidence because it proves the existence of God How does the bible prove god's existence? That does not mean the Bible is false or unreal. The bible is actually false on quite a lot of things. It's also immoral on quite a bit of things. If the bible is the sacred word of god, what authority do you have to reject the pieces that you dislike? They are after all God's word. Who are you to question God? You see, your logic is inconsistent on this. You want to pick and choose parts of the bible to believe, but yet you believe the bible is the holy word of god. How are you able to discern which parts are holier than other parts of the bible? God never makes mistakes, so are you saying that some of the stuff in his bible is wrong? Side: Against
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Then why don't you believe in werewolves, bigfoot, the loch ness monster, the chupacabra, telepathy, telekinesis, or any other bull shit that conspiracy theorists come up with? Because there's no evidence that those things exist. Simply harmless fairytales. You haven't given me any evidence for your beliefs. You claim the bible, but that's no different than me declaring spider man comics proof of spider man. Spiderman comics are Spiderman comics, made by some man. The Bible is God's words written by his disciples/followers, but God told them what to write. What you believe will not change the facts. The fact is, there is no evidence that god exists. There is no evidence He doesn't. How does the bible prove god's existence? It's God's words. If the bible is the sacred word of god, what authority do you have to reject the pieces that you dislike? They are after all God's word. Who are you to question God? I don't reject those pieces, I just don't fully agree with them. I understand that God has His reasons for saying this and that, but I'm human. I have my own ethical values, and of course some might clash with the Bible. God never makes mistakes, so are you saying that some of the stuff in his bible is wrong? No. I just believe differently compared to some sections of the Bible because of how I've grown up, and what I've been taught at school and other places. It's hard to explain. Side: For
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Because there's no evidence that those things exist. Simply harmless fairytales. Then why did you say this: It's silly to automatically disbelieve in anything that has no 'proper' evidence. You disbelieve in fairy tales, but you don't disbelieve in god, despite both of them lacking evidence. How can you justify this double standard? The Bible is God's words written by his disciples/followers, but God told them what to write. You have no evidence proving that it was God who told them what to write. There is no evidence He doesn't. There doesn't need to be evidence proving god's non existence. If we are to believe in something, we need evidence in order to rationally believe in this thing. In this case it is God, but there is no evidence for god. So we should not believe in god. I don't reject those pieces, I just don't fully agree with them. I understand that God has His reasons for saying this and that, but I'm human. I have my own ethical values, and of course some might clash with the Bible. If you know God has his reasons, and this his intellect is vastly superior to yours, why don't you just blindly believe what he tells you? On what authority do you reject his Word? Personal whim? How can you reject the Word of an all powerful being that has existed for eternity? (according to your beliefs) I just believe differently compared to some sections of the Bible because of how I've grown up, and what I've been taught at school and other places. It's hard to explain. If the way you were raised and grew up is in disagreement with the bible, why do you choose your own experiences over following the bible whole heartedly? Based on your beliefs, I cannot fathom how you can value your personal experiences over the knowledge and experience that an all powerful forever existing being has. Side: Against
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You disbelieve in fairy tales, but you don't disbelieve in god, despite both of them lacking evidence. How can you justify this double standard? But God does have evidence... o.o You have no evidence proving that it was God who told them what to write. It's written in some Bibles, at the beginning of the book, who wrote the book. For example, Paul wrote Romans and a bunch of other books. Also, God had to have told them what to write. Especially with Genesis, because they were not alive during that time. If we are to believe in something, we need evidence in order to rationally believe in this thing. In this case it is God, but there is no evidence for god. So we should not believe in god. No. There is evidence, but you choose to not believe in God because you don't want to. Simple. How can you disgard something as unreal, because it is seemingly impossible? How can you reject the Word of an all powerful being that has existed for eternity? Dude. It's not like I'm torching Bibles, and protesting. I just think differently because of what I've been taught by "man". Based on your beliefs, I cannot fathom how you can value your personal experiences over the knowledge and experience that an all powerful forever existing being has. What can I say? I'm only human. Side: For
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Truth? I am not saying I have the truth. I am saying that you do not have the truth. Do you think what you are saying is truth? Then prove it. Prove it to Hindus, to Muslims, to atheists and everyone. You can't prove it because it's not the truth. It's just a belief. And beliefs don't prove anything other than the fact that you can trick people into believing it. Side: Against
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Truth? I am not saying I have the truth. I am saying that you do not have the truth. Do you think what you are saying is truth? Then prove it. Prove it to Hindus, to Muslims, to Christians and everyone. You can't prove it because it's not the truth. It's just an opinion based on your logic and trust in science. And that doesn't prove anything other than the fact that you are quite small-minded. :) Side: For
But I can prove it. God, do you exist? And there will be no answer. Even if you climb a mountain and shout that, there will be no answer. Go ahead and try it. Gods don't exist. And that's going into claiming something. Most atheists don't even go that far. They simply say "I don't believe in the existence of gods". You are just twisting things. You want me to prove a negative? Then tell me how I can prove a god doesn't exist. What's something I can show you that would prove you wrong? If you can't name anything, then you're full of shit. Side: Against
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That's a thing of the past. God does not answer in that way anymore. He answers through prayer. What's something I can show you that would prove you wrong? If you can't name anything, then you're full of shit. I don't know. This is exactly what I ask you (atheists), every time you demand evidence. What can I show you? Answer? Probably nothing. I'm not full of sh*t. I'm just saying that you can't completely prove anything, and neither can I, and we'll find out in the end. Side: For
Wat. That makes no sense. This is what I'm talking about with religious brainwashing. You get excuses and no answers. Where is your god? I can tell you what would convince me. True miracles. Not just weird events, but things that are truly amazing, such as AIDS disappearing, and a voice saying it was a god who did it. Something that is beyond anything we could see. The sky flashing all the colors, one at a time, then the face of god appearing and telling everyone that he is real. Something that is impossible that is impossible. But that won't happen. Gods aren't real, and anything that proves it wrong gets a "Oh no, it doesn't count. It used to, but oh no, you are still wrong, silly atheist". And that's bullshit. Side: Against
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God is real, and I have yet to see anything that proves otherwise. If such evidence really existed, then there would be no debate or argument over this. You would be right, and I would be wrong. However, we are still debating and arguing over this because there is no solid evidence that can prove either side right. Side: For
What? If you say so. I don't really know what you're talking about though. There is plenty of logic and evidence that you're wrong. I can see that you are ignoring it. It's not exactly uncommon for religious people to be close minded and unable to see where they are wrong. It's fine if you believe though. I don't care? If you want to convert me, then prove it. You can believe whatever you want. Side: Against
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I think God is a stupid idea, but one with good morals, like really people there is this huge bearded man with white cloths watching us?! And on top of that th want us to go to a big fancy funny smelling place to warship him for an hour and a half a day come on people where is your frickin' proof!!! Side: Against
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People trust him all the time and cheat by giving some excuse when they don't get what they need. I will not thank god for what I have. I will thank my parents and those I know who worked to help me get it. I will give credit where I know it is due. It is only fair. Side: Against
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