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Debate Score:93
Arguments:73
Total Votes:93
Ended:03/09/11
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The Birthmark CHS 3-3-2011

Create a response to the following prompt topics. You must create well-written and thought provoking responses. The grade level of your response must be 13 or higher to count. Each student must respond to at least five of the topics.

¨Representation of the Female
¨Nature
¨Love (Profession vs. Human)
¨Priorities
¨Marriage
¨Which tone's are evident?
¨What theme's are evident?
¨Comparisons and Contrasts with Gothic works

Add New Argument
3 points

Along with discussing these topics, It would be acceptable to explore the metaphor that is developed through the characterizations of Aminadab and the comparisons of those characterizations to Alymer.

3 points

The Birthmark, like The Castle of Otranto and The Fall of the House of Usher, is focused on the relationships and interactions between characters. It contrasts "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner", which is more focused upon the interactions of the Mariner with various supernatural elements. Compared to the other works, it has a more prominent commentary on scientific exploration.

2 points

Commentary on scientific exploration is also prevalent in Shelley’s “Frankenstein”. There is a similarity in “The Birthmark” and “Frankenstein” in that the novels begin with emoting feelings of love and growth between the characters. Unfortunately, scientific obsession takes over and destroys this love and hinders all growth within the relationships because passion triumphs reason in both literary works. As a result, death consumes at least one innocent life. However it is not he who toiled with nature that must sacrifice himself, rather it is the person/people he loved. Alymer and Victor were both in the wrong for concocting their creations, despite the fact that Alymer was pleased in the results of his denial of nature, and Victor was broken by the outcome of his.

3 points

In the Gothic literature there are many constant devises that are kept within the text such as in the Ancient Mariner and the Birthmark.Both of the female characters are held with the power to determine the fate of the males in the story. The life and death in the Ancient Mariner is obviously the determinant of what happens in the story and in the fall of Usher when Elizabeth's life and death is the fend of her brothers. There is also a reoccurring theme of a woman in distress with an over powering tyrannical male. In the Castle of Otranto Isabelle is in hiding in order to not to marry Manfred and his bad temper. The same follows in The Birthmark when Georgeanna is put in a state of submission to her husband and his tyrannical personality and risked her life doing so. Another Gothic device that is repeated in the these Gothic stories is the use of foreshadow. The Castle of Otranto puts the use of this mysterious giant that can only be seen by some. With this use of mystery it can foretell future inexplicable events. The Ancient Mariner also uses foreshadow through the killing of the Albatross. This Albatross was a sign of good intentions and when the Mariner killed it it foreshadowed that future events would lead to a threatening atmosphere. Then in the Birthmark when the scientist becomes irritably obsessed with the mark on his wife's face we can elude to a situation involving metonymy. Foreshadowing also relates to The Fall of the House of the Usher in that the house with its "cracks" and " rotting smell" could follow to an unknown, mysterious occurrence.

2 points

The most interesting aspect of the displayed Gothic principles is the level to which each displays a variable nature in stylization and interaction amongst one another.

For example ... both stories, The Ancient Mariner & The Birthmark, feature a woman with control over the life of the protagonist; something to consider is that both attains this ability in two opposing yet equally strong ways; Lady Life-In-Death is truly a terrible shade and directly controls the unfortunate Mariner's fate - opposite this is Aylmer's dear celestial bride, who passively controls his ultimate success and failure through her birthmark. While she may not decide whether or not he spends eternity suffering, she does set the course by his deeds to how he will perceive the natural world and his own scientific control over it.

2 points

The female is represented as a perfect being; however she has a “hand,” upon her face as a mark of her birth. She seems to be a submissive individual that will delve into anything her “loving,” husband wishes her to do. As a Gothic device, she is represented as in distress because she is continually overpowered by her tyrannical husband. In the end, her submissiveness nature is the reason she reaches her impending doom of death. When her spirit leaves her lifeless body, it is understood that she was an angel in a human form, yet released to be a being of Heaven once her imperfections were expelled from the flesh of her body.

Side: Representation of the Female
1 point

In other works such as "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner", the female is also depicted as an evil/unnatural character, as described here:

"Her lips were red, her looks were free,

Her locks were yellow as gold:

Her skin was as white as leprosy,

The Nightmare Life-in-Death was she,

Who thicks man's blood with cold."

This is a representation of not only the female character (in some situations), but a representation of the female character as a Gothic element(an inexplicable event). Another example includes Madeline from "The Fall of the House of Usher".

Side: Representation of the Female
gnewcomer(11) Disputed
2 points

Females tend to have a larger focus in the gothic novels in comparison to the previous works of literature we have worked with. Although the description of the female emphasizes a darker being it is not necessarily an evil character. The males in the gothic novels are driven by the women. Yet, not in an evil sense but as a lustful form.

Alymer -> Georgiana

Manfred -> Isabell

Roderick -> Madeline.

Side: Representation of the Female
1 point

What text evidence could you provide that proves the supernatural nature of Georgianna?

Side: Representation of the Female

Going along with what you said about Georgiana being an angel, the reason for the blemish being a hand could represent the fact that it was what was 'holding' her in her human body.

Side: Representation of the Female
1 point

The hand represents Georgiana's humanity, she is not so much of an angel as she is "the best the world has to offer". She was the epitomy of a 'perfect' human being. It is only human nature to be mortal and imperfect and Georgiana's mark of a human hand shows that she is only human and can in no way be absolutely perfect. The author states that Georgiana's mark is "deeply interwoven" to show that her flaw is a permanent and irremovable part of her character and cannot be seperated out.

Side: Representation of the Female

That is a thought but i don't necessarily agree. I think maybe the hand could represent humanity, and that it's a blemish of imperfection that humans should not try and fix.

Side: Representation of the Female
1 point

The The suggestion that The Birthmark represents the female as a perfect being is interesting considering that in Frankenstein, the character of Elizabeth is idealized as well. Georgiana is physically idealized, being a person almost without imperfection, while Elizabeth is morally idealized, being a person whose ethics are somehow "better" than Victor's. Perhaps the Romantic view of women was an image, however exaggerated, of moral beauty and perfection.

Side: Representation of the Female
1 point

Women back in that time period were seen merely as physical beings nothing deeper. That stands true in all of the Gothic literature from "The Castle of Otranto to "Frankenstein". The ideal image of a woman was based upon not her intelligence or contribution to society but how well she physically appeared and how devoted and submissive she was to the male figure.

Side: Representation of the Female
2 points

On the topic of marriage, Georgiana stands as the representation of an obedient wife. Georgiana's obedience also goes to portray the tyrannical male within the text. Upon her husband's first remark of the imperfection she seems appalled as Aylmer says that the mark shocks him, exclaiming, "You cannot love what shocks you!" But as the story goes along, she begins to agree with her husband in the fact that the birthmark highlights and even magnifies her imperfection. The idea that Georgiana simply complies to her husband's wishes and abandons what she once felt so strongly about emphasizes just how tyrannical Aylmer is.

Georgiana had been told by all of her previous lovers how perfect she is, and how her admirers would risk their lives to simply kiss the hand upon her cheek. This also highlights the tyranny of Aylmer because he remarked that the birthmark made her appearance hideous. Because this was the first time that Georgiana had been told something other than of her perfection, her obedience becomes evident.

Side: Representation of the Female
2 points

Throughout every piece of Gothic literature that we have read the whole theme of what love is and how we should respond to it has been really disturbing. Starting with our most recent read, The Birthmark, love is seen from two very different prospectives. First it is presented sort of like a challenge. Strive and fight for the best and receive your prize. Then we see it as a brainwashing tool. Love is a means to press your opinions and ideas onto those around you. In The Fall of the House of Usher, love is seen as a means to get what you want. However, as soon as what you want becomes unattainable love no longer has any importance. The Castle of Otranto is the only story that shows a slither of what love is really about through the relationship between the Matilda and Theodore, but even then it was kind of out shined by the warped presentation of love from Manfred to Isabella.

Side: Representation of the Female
1 point

I agree that the love factor throughout the books that we have read has down grated it. Love is supposed to be wonderful and breathtaking, but in these works of literature they are portrayed as dire and, as you said, brainwashing.

Side: Representation of the Female
jordanbaseba(10) Disputed
1 point

The main focus of this book was not to focus on the love of the scientist or the love of his wife, so really the way love is betrayed in this book should not even be looked at throughly.

Side: Representation of the Female
2 points

Aylmer, within The Birthmark, is truly a powerful example of the classical flawed protagonist, one who through his mistakes builds into a complex and believable human figure; his most outstanding flaw, by far, is the obsessive fallacy that we consider to be his improper priorities.

Throughout the story, as is incredibly common amongst Gothic protagonists, a forceful indignation towards the limitations and taunting nature of the mysteries of Nature around them cause them to spearhead ultimately fruitless campaigns to alter the grand design, which in the intense struggle to do so, completely consumes the central character from the genesis of frustration until they, in their unfathomable horror, realize the consequences of their crimes against the natural order.

This is the obsessive power which claims the focus of Aylmer; so great is his potency in man's early attempts of science that none may equal his command over that which he has discovered - yet despite his unparalleled success, his terrible crusade against the birthmark upon his gorgeous wife transforms into the tyrannical shape that he sees when he looks upon her - he does not see his fair and perfectly imperfect wife, but only the birthmark. He assesses it to be the luring, terrible taunt of Nature itself set to mock him, and the building lust to conquer the birthmark which costs him his angelic bride is a fruition of all his deadly sins against the order upon which we function, and as it always shall be within a Gothic, suffers in release from his obsession.

Side: Priorities
2 points

Notably evident as featured in any Gothic, there is a healthy sense detest for the old conventions of previous literary periods, which is plainly obvious by the flawed heroes and stark, terrible stories with grim endings.

One not as usually so duly noted yet still very important is the distaste for the picturesque state of marriage so developed in the Middle Ages, something to be mocked and picked apart into the burgeoning reality of character appearing in Gothic literature.

Such is well exemplified within The Birthmark; Aylmer's marriage is a dutiful thing; his claim to his wife is one of society's expectations, and physical attraction, rather than anything meaningful - he simply agreed that his massive success in the scientific fields of thought and experiment entitled him to a perfect woman.

Not only is this marriage an empty arraignment, but so too is his love hollow - as his obsession with triumphing over a simple mark consumes any chance at a true love to blossom for his wife - overbearing and running her to death with his own obsession, and without complaint from her; the idea of women being submissive was a cruel stereotype at the time, so by inclusion was a forwarding of a thought - that all the sum of the unjust, uncouth and unloving marriage was entirely for naught and just as the society and ideals that supported it, was ultimately doomed for their ignorance.

Side: Marriage
2 points

One of the tones which Hawthorne uses in the Birthmark could be called didactic or moralistic. At the end of the story, he reflects upon Alymer's actions by saying, "The momentary circumstance was too strong for him; he failed to look beyond the shadowy scope of time, and, living once for all in eternity, to find the perfect future in the present." He tries to present the folly of Alymer's actions to perhaps prevent readers from making similar mistakes.

Side: Marriage
2 points

Something all these stories share is an ever present problem of selfishness. There is always at least one character that cares for their needs first and foremost, with complete disregard for how they affect anyone else. In both The Fall of the House of Usher and The Castle of Otranto, the lead male is consumed by his want of another male heir. The Birthmark is more of a want for perfection in general, but a want nonetheless.

Side: Marriage
1 point

I would agree that there is a "want" by the characters in all of the stories, and that these wants are all purely selfish in nature. The characters are driven by the need for self-advancement, and are not concerned with how their actions effect those around them. This type of selfish behavior leads all the characters down a destructive path to an inevitable demise. Only after it is to late do the characters begin to weigh the morality of their choices.

Side: Marriage
2 points

Something that really stuck out about the story The Birthmark is that the lead male had a obsession with perfection, but only outside of himself. Something always went wrong with his experiments, and he didn't finish all his studies. He only sought for perfection in indirect methods, thus not effecting himself.

Side: Marriage
1 point

The contrast between Aminadab and Aylmer is a classic juxtaposition of two related characters in a literary piece found throughout literature, but with heavy emphasis in the Gothic period; the humble, ugly character, and the proud, 'beautiful' character.

The general idea is that the 'beautiful' character has a high position either by appearance, social rank, or simple accomplishments (sometimes more than one is used, as in this case) that generally places them above the other character, who is usually deformed, poor, or generally considered mentally/completely inferior.

However, the part of the metaphorical scheme which comes into play here is what cements this classical device - the 'inferior' character character is just, or in some way piously humble in nature or wisdom, granting quiet wisdom to the 'superior' character when he truly needs it - he himself being haughty or entirely too stuck up or driven to acknowledge this advice. The advice or wisdom almost always goes ignored, and the 'superior' character is punished for this in the end or along the path, learning too late the value of the 'inferior' character's input.

Side: Aminadab and Alymer
2 points

Aminadab is a foil to Alymer’s character. Physically, where Aminadab is described as having a bulky frame and unkempt hair, Alymer is described as having a slender figure and intellectual face. Internally, in regards to characterization, Aminadab had a “great mechanical readiness” and was “incapable of comprehending a single principle”. Yet he was able to understand that the beauty of human life was greater than the beauty of the superficial appearance of that life (when he admitted that he would not part with the birthmark if Georgiana was his wife). Not so much scientific as it is didactic, he still was able to comprehend a singular principle that outweighed the authority of any principle relating to science. Aminadab represented man’s physical nature; he was a solid individual weighted with wholesome values, and Alymer was more of a ghost or spirit; lifeless and existing on principles that were so insignificant that he had no legs to stand on when it came to understanding life and love.

Side: Aminadab and Alymer
1 point

Aminadab is an ancillary character to Aylmer showing significant contrast between the highly pedestialed scientist and his humble assistant. Aminadab says that he would not experiment on Madeline showing that he has more wisdom when it comes to the nature of humans and perfection.

Side: Aminadab and Alymer

This story, The Birthmark, really shines a light on just how pathetic and twisted the marriages of this time period were. Women were so brainwashed and degraded that the simple opinion of this woman's husband tilts her world and sends its spinning out of control. Her whole life Georgiana had been told that she was beautiful and that the small 'blemish' only adds to her beauty, but the moment her husband speaks unfavorable of it she second guesses her entire worth. This shows that females were not intended to have minds or opinions of their own, but to be completely dependent on their male counterparts.

Side: Aminadab and Alymer
1 point

It is very true how women were seen through there appearance than personality. Any reference to a woman in these Gothic literatures are purely based upon physical aspects. How in the Castle of Otranto Hippolita had still devoted her self to a husband who intended on divorcing her strictly because she could not physically produce a male due to her physical health. In The Birthmark Georgianna is described as this perfect woman except for a simple birthmark of a hand print on her face. Her husband creates a commotion about it which then diminishes her self esteem and yet she submits herself to his experiments to make her "perfect". Not only does it show how females were based upon purely by looks but that there personalities were there physical appearance.

Side: Aminadab and Alymer
11mrenz(14) Disputed
1 point

While The Birthmark does certainly contain the element of a dysfunctional marriage between a tyrannical male and a self-conscious female, the entire society might not have characterized by such relationships. There are so many relationships today that share the same characteristics. Consider the woman who gets plastic surgery because she is told she is ugly, or the woman who changes her personality just to feel valued. There are plenty of abusive (verbally and emotionally) marriages, but there are plenty of healthy ones as well. Thus, it is not fair to generalize marriages in the Romantic Era as pathetic or in ours as equal and healthy. Perhaps instead of a commentary on contemporary matrimony, The Birthmark is a commentary on human relationships in general, including their potential to be abusive.

Side: Aminadab and Alymer
1 point

Many of the Gothic Novels portray "reality" but they also portray the bad reality. The Romantic Era had plenty of healthy relationships, and plenty of writers to tell about them, but they also needed authors to write about the bad ones, the relationships that ended in tragedy and turmoil. "The Birthmark" was one of the novels that needed to be of the bad relationships along with "The Castle of Otranto".

Side: Aminadab and Alymer
1 point

The female is represented as a perfect being; however she has a “hand,” upon her face as a mark of her birth. She seems to be a submissive individual that will delve into anything her “loving,” husband wishes her to do. As a Gothic device, she is represented as in distress because she is continually overpowered by her tyrannical husband. In the end, her submissiveness nature is the reason she reaches her impending doom of death. When her spirit leaves her lifeless body, it is understood that she was an angel in a human form, yet released to be a being of Heaven once her imperfections were expelled from the flesh of her body.

Side: Priorities
1 point

The marriage of Aylmer and Georgiana is unhealthy. Georgiana thinks of Alymer as her master and Alymer is disgusted by Georgiana. Throughout marriage, couples are supposed to cooperate, even if it's only some of the time. Aylmer's and Georgiana's relationship starts out as a loving one, unfortunately, as soon as they marry Alymer starts to become obsessed with Georgiana's birthmark and is determined to remove it at all costs, even if that cost is Georgiana's life. In a marriage the couple is supposed to accept each other's flaws, they are supposed to support each other, and not risk each other's lives at the expense of there own insanity.Georgiana's birthmark was loved by all except the one person that mattered to her, Alymer.

Side: Priorities
1 point

Georgiana's submissive nature brings forth the idea that Jane Austen proposed in "Pride and Prejudice", "A single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife". In "The Birthmark" Aylmer is at the height of his scientific career and therefore wants to marry a beautiful woman. Austen's style was neoclassical, and "The Birthmark" was written as a gothic novel therefore the reference to a previous style of writing shows that some individuals of the time were trapped in the society that they grew accustomed to in the past. Georgiana is one of those individuals who could not look forward at the gradual advancement of woman, how they were becoming opinionated and developed second thoughts about the commands given to them from men. Similarly, as seen through the “Fall of the House of Usher” Roderick too was punished for struggling to maintain the traditions of the past and refuse the modern advancements and ideas of the present and future. Roderick and his family dynasty die out completely, as a result of his ignorance, which is parallel to the manner in Georgiana passes into her next life. Had she been more resistant and defended herself, she would not have consented to her husband's ludicrous scheme, and she could have lived.

Side: Priorities
1 point

Georgiana was trapped in that time period when women were, and had no choice but to be submissive to their husbands. This is simply because of the fact that she had never to defend herself against a dominant male figure. In her past, her lovers saw her as nothing but perfect and she had no reason to stand up for herself because she had been handed everything. It seems as though as soon as she becomes married to a dominant man, she didn't know what to do except be submissive to his tyrannical nature.

Side: Priorities
1 point

Gothic literature has a reoccurring theme of bad marriages. From "The Castle of Otranto" with Hippolita and Manfred and their impending downfall through divorce. Then we see this with Alymer and Georgianna and the perfection that brings them together is their ultimate destruction. These ruined marriages not only show the metonymy and gloom of Gothic literature but also exemplifies how the marriage creates an atmosphere of inexplicable and highly suspenseful situations that creates theses stories.

Side: Priorities
1 point

Love (Profession vs. Human):

In the beginning, Aylmer had strong feelings towards science and his work but his feelings for Georgiana outweighed the former and so, he chose her over his work. But as the story progresses, he becomes more and more obsessed with the hand shaped birth mark on Georgiana's left cheek and soon "he found this one defect grow more and more intolerable with every moment of their united lives." Thus, he began to search for a scientific way to rid her face of her birthmark. Once Aylmer started to search for cures and remedies, he fell back into that obsession he had previously towards his work.

Side: Priorities
1 point

This supports the argument of him being an absolute perfectionist because he can have no unity of both his love of profession and human affection. Aylmer loves his work and is willing to go to any extent to achieve his point of perfection that he will gladly kill the one that is dear and close to his heart. He is so overly obsessed with finding a way to cure her birthmark that he forgets that she is a human and treats her as a science project, venturing to extremes to fix the impurity in her skin. Like Amy said, he fell back into his previous obsession of his scientific work.

Side: Priorities
1 point

Scientific advancement at the time was flourishing, but Aylmer's character reflects how some people strived for scientific discoveries beyond the point of was rational. Incredible recognition was to be gained if Aylmer was able to create the potion to rid the impurity on Georgiana's face. However, there was a fatal consistency in the results of his previous experiments. He never had any actual success, but he persisted in his attempts. Aylmer was a mad scientist, working incessantly in his laboratory; risking whatever it took, including the life of his newlywed, to attain satisfactory results that would selfishly improve his acclaim in the scientific community.

Side: Priorities
1 point

The Birthmark is a Gothic work of literature and also can relate to other works of literature from that time period. Such as, The Castle of Otranto, there is a submissive woman under the tyranny of a male figure that seems to control every aspect of her life. Inexplicable events and omens also occur in this work of literature, such as the plant dying or when Georgiana discovers that the scientific studies conducted by her husband seemed mostly inconclusive, until he ran the experiments many more times to get the right result from all of the wrong ones, exemplifying that she will be the wrong outcome of the experiment. Also, her dream that her husband would cut out her heart happily just to get the mark upon her face to vanish is a vision of what is to come, foreshadowing her death and his success. The Castle of Otranto also had inexplicable events, such as the giant helmet crushing Manfred’s son, and The Rime of the Ancient Mariner included Death and Life in Death as aspects of the dirty deed of killing a harmless bird.

Side: Comparison and Contrast
1 point

Nature, the intrinsically woven basis within Gothic literature, generates a compulsory effect of containing the plot to an ingeniously similar, yet fresh in appearance, cyclical process of story and character development from beginning to completion of the climax.

Within The Birthmark, as with any Gothic composition, the main character either encounters or brings about something that defies Nature itself; whether this is a supernatural or scientific violation of Nature, it does not matter. What matters is that this event which violates a sacred balance in the cause of prideful and corrupt ambition, and for this, the character responsible suffers for his unfounded ambition - however, he is warned, in some form or another, of his ambition, before finding himself punished for this mistake.

Side: Nature
1 point

As other people raved about the angelic hand print, Alymer had pleasant dreams of removing it from his wife’s body; no matter the risk he encountered, and no matter the possibility of her death. His obsession alludes to the theme of the story which is that science is a part of nature and cannot be used to counteract against it. Alymer did not truly love his wife, instead he loved the great challenge that her “defect” had presented him. He was successful in performing its removal, but he lost her in the process. Nature engraved that speck upon his wife’s perfect face. By removing it from her cheek, he simultaneously removed her from the world of the living. It is human nature to be curious and to test the limits of what is possible, but another part of humans are also crave companionship, and Alymer killed the woman who loved him more than she loved herself.

Side: Nature
11aerick(15) Disputed
1 point

I agree that Georgianna was undoubtedly in love with Alymer but that his true intentions were strictly self serving. Yes companionship is natural to crave but in this story Alymer's companionship was his experiments. In the beginning of the story, "The Birthmark", it tells us that he is this amazing scientist who has put a hold on his perfect career to marry this perfect girl. My intake on this was that it was all work for him. His motives were to be perfect and in order to be perfect he needed to surround himself with perfection. Then when he realized that she was not perfect he had a dream in which he killed her to remove the blemish from her face and was okay with her dying, relived really. This shows that his companionship was not to Georgianna but to perfection.

Side: Nature
hayleeANN(5) Disputed
1 point

In the beginning of "The Birthmark" Alymer never noticed, or didn't pay any mind to, the birthmark so Alymer did love her, in the beginning. Once the marriage ceremony and all the glamor was gone Alymer saw the birthmark and for some reason decided that he would use his wife for his appalling experiment. After the wedding Alymer, for some reason, seem to go mad and the subject that he choose to go crazy over was his wife's birthmark.

Side: Nature
1 point

The elements of Marriage, Love(or lack thereof), and Nature are evident in The Birthmark. Alymer and Georgiana are newlyweds at the beginning of the work. They love each other very much, but Alymer has one tiny problem with Georgiana: the birthmark. Alymer tries to show his love for her but offering to remove the birthmark, which Georgiana agrees with, saying she'll do anything to make him happy. Alymer goes against the laws of Nature and tries to create his idea of a perfect wife by using Alchemy to achieve his goal. However, you can't go against the Law of Nature without incurring consequences, which Alymer realized after his wife's soul left her body and ascended to heaven.

Side: Nature
LukeWalton(10) Disputed
1 point

By offering to remove the birthmark, Aylmer is not expressing his love, he is simply revealing his selfish nature. Georgiana did not see the birthmark as hideous as Alymer did, but simply complied to his tyrannical control over her. Aylmer could not love Georgiana for who she was, and could not love her with a small impurity on her face. Therefore, him offering to remove the mark had nothing to do with him expressing his love for her.

Side: Nature
THallstrom8(10) Disputed
1 point

I would say that the removal of the actual birthmark was never supposed to be out of love. According to everyone Georgiana was the most beautiful women that anyone had ever seen, and yet, Alymer is not satisfied with this. He does not focus on the positive qualities of his loving wife, instead, he looks for the slightest imperfections that she possesses. The removal of the mark was not for the benefit of his wife, but to appease his own selfish indulgences. This story is not an example of love, it is an example of what happens when you try and find perfection in something that is already as good as it can be.

Side: Nature

The fact is what Tyler has said is true. The birthmark being removed was a step for science, it was really a selfish move made to further his own career. The fact that his wife was willing to do it was a bonus for him, but it wasn't an act of love on his part at all. On her part it was an act of compassion, but I don't think you can say it's out of love its self.

Side: Nature
1 point

In "The Birthmark," there seems to be a multitude of themes that are reoccurring to other Gothic literature. Themes such as a psychotic and obsessive male are prevalent in works including "Frankenstein," "The Fall of the House of Usher," and "The Castle of Otranto," while a theme of morbidity and mortal actions influencing supernatural events is also prevalent in the three works of Gothic literature mentioned above. Other than the similarities of Gothic devices being thematic, yet another theme is occurring in "The Birthmark." As the scientist/husband becomes more involved in curing the deformity and blemish of Georgiana's flesh, the more she becomes submissive to his thoughts, thinking that her blemish is uglier than what he makes it seem. She becomes a sort of slave to his mind, whatever he outputs to her, she takes that comment or insult to heart and becomes less caring to whether she dies and more caring as to when the blemish will be fixed.

Side: Themes
1 point

LOL i dont even know so YEAHHHHHH go smart people woooh hooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Side: Themes
jordanbaseba(10) Disputed
1 point

ight hommie how about you stay out of our class because your responses are "ignant"!

Side: Themes
1 point

The way that females are represented in "The Birhtmark" is picture-perfect, Georgiana is beautiful, confident and faithful. Georgiana starts out confident and so sure of herself. Every man around her thinks that she is this perfect, georeous, self-assured woman, and for a man in her world that was very appealing. When Georgiana got married she thought the world of Alymer, his opinion was the only that mattered, he was the only one that mattered. Georgiana was the perfect woman and for Alymer to think other wise is obsured.

Side: Themes
THallstrom8(10) Disputed
2 points

I would argue that the way Georgiana is portrayed represents the shift of the way women were viewed. The whole story is a complement to her perfection and angelic grace. These positive characteristics are of vital importance to the plot because everyone realizes the good and pure qualities of Georgiana except for Alymer. I think that this story shows the shift between a time from before when womens views were not important to a time when more and more males began to realize the significance of the role that women can not only in society, but also in a marriage.

Side: Themes
1 point

Marriage seems to be an inevitable part of the plot that twists its way around the activities of certain characters and drives the story forward by causing some sort of issue in all the Gothic works we have read. The Birthmark represents marriage as an unequal relationship represented with a young female that being forced into an unwanted situation by a tyrannical male that will not rest until his own desires our fulfilled. Aylmer fights to remove the birthmark Georgiana has on her face, despite his wife specifically requesting the blemish to stay where God wished for it to be, and eventually his selfish desire leads to his wives untimely demise. Marriage no matter which particular work is involved some way in the death of a character or is needed in order to tell the story.

Side: Themes
1 point

While today’s society looks upon scientific exploration in a good light the stories that we have read such as “Frankenstein” and “The Birthmark” look at it as something that shouldn’t be done. It’s apparent that the study of new things frightened people of those times as in the stories the “discoveries” lead to death. These deaths could represent the beliefs that people were losing as creations and discoveries in nature are made.

Side: Themes
THallstrom8(10) Disputed
1 point

In regards to the views of current scientific exploration I would say, how do we know that eventually the things we have learned or are trying to learn won't eventually be viewed negatively? The problem with scientific research is that rarely will you know the consequences of what you are doing until it is to late. We are constantly trying to push the boundaries of what we are capable of, and while we do have high aspirations and generally good intentions all these "discoveries" we are making could be potentially harmful to us in the long run.

Side: Themes
1 point

Something that should be pointed it out is that while the female in “The Birthmark” has what seems like only physical worth. She is described as having perfect beauty that is only intensified by the birthmark on her cheek while Frankenstein has a woman who is not only described as beautiful but as having wonderful morals and personality. It’s important to note that the work that has a woman only accredited for her beauty was written by Nathaniel Hawthorne, a man, while Frankenstein was written by Mary Shelley, a woman. The difference of the two shows that how women wished to be viewed differed greatly from how men actually viewed them.

Side: Themes
1 point

Mary Shelley's work compared to Nathaniel Hawthorne's work is a stand for women and in a way intiated a start to a stand for women and how they deserve there way in society and have a lot of worth to bring to the world around. As for Hawthorne still uses the role of the women to be humble and go along with her husband going into detailed descriptions of her magnificant beauty intead of her intellect.

Side: Themes
1 point

As said before in The Ancient Mariner, The Castle of Otranto, and The Fall of the House of Usher seems that the work starts with the death of what seems like an unimportant character and then progresses the plot of the stories. The Birthmark is different than the three books above because as opposed to a death starting the story, death brings it to a close. All the devices that are typical of a gothic work lead up to science and change killing Georgiana as opposed to older views coming into play like the incestual relations and the arranged marriages.

Side: Themes
1 point

It seems as if the birthmark tries to emphasize the way that science gets into a person’s head. One of the points that Hawthorne was probably trying to make would be the way that scientists get overly enthused with their projects and all of sudden their priorities are completely shattered. Instead of being focused some on his work and some on his wife, Aylmer became obsessed with being able to fix the birthmark placed on his otherwise beautiful wife’s cheek. The result of his obsession, the death of Georgiana, shows what people thought would happen if science was to continue advancing. The same thing happens to Victor Frankenstein’s priorities in “Frankenstein” and it results in the same thing: Death.

Side: Themes
1 point

As pointed out, alike Alymer in The Birthmark, Victor in Frankenstein both exhibit the obsession of their scientific experiments trying to create something that has never been done previous to their work. The outcome of the experiments ended in diaster as both resulted with deaths of loved ones of the creators. During this time period scientific advances were ocurring however these two stories would seem to discourage people in pursuing untouched sciences.

Side: Themes
1 point

it is interesting how Alymer's obsession with perfection contrasts the natural world of which the Romantics were so obsessed. Very little in nature is really perfect and without flaw. Diamonds are valued for their minute imperfections. No human body is completely perfect, nor is any person's behavior perfect all the time. In showing the negative effects of Alymer's efforts to attain perfection, perhaps Hawthorne was saying that nature is imperfect and man cannot change that.

Side: Themes
1 point

"The Birthmark" provides a theme of respecting what is given to you. It is apparent throughout the text that the author wants the reader to feel the fear and uncertainty of science. More importantly is what comes at the end when the mysterious laughter is heard. The death of the scientist's wife comes from him trying to tamper with that of nature. He judges the creation that nature has blessed him with and he tried to improve on it. This lack of respect for that which already exists is evident throughout the text. The driving theme of this story is to respect that which is given to and not look to improve on it for your own selfish gain.

Side: Themes
1 point

A theme that I find very evident is that of perfection. It is very very hard, perhaps impossible, to reach perfection in nature. The big theme in the story is that to achieve perfection means something will be taken or lost. In this case the wife died in the Scientist's pursuit in removing the mole or mark. What I really found to be interesting was that when she died she rose like an angel. Somewhere in the story is said she was perfect in every way except for the birthmark. Once the birthmark was removed perfection was achieved, but at the same time, she lost her life. When the author wrote she rose like an angel it is because the birthmark, her only flaw, had been removed thus rendering her perfect, like an angel.

Side: Themes
1 point

Marriage plays a big role in this story. Together the scientist and the beautiful woman are happy. Its not until a short while after the marriage does the scientist realize the mark which begins to become irksome to him. He soon obsesses over removing, even dreaming that to get it out he must dig directly to her heart (which is a foreshadow to her death). They both see that men don't carry about the mark and that some would even kiss it but she doesn't care about them. She cares about what her husband thinks and only which to please him because of their bond by love. In the end when she is about to drink the potion she knows the risks, and in a defiance to life, she risks it all to make her husband happy, who in the end is, despite the melancholy death of the wife to the reader. All the scientist sees is that his potion worked and he succeed in removing the birthmark.

Side: Themes
1 point

In the Birthmark nature is challenged. The scientist wishes to break the laws of nature by creating potions that can make one live forever or actually preform alchemy. The scientist pushed against the wall of nature, winning and losing. He succeed in removing the birthmark, which is what he cared about. Much more over her life. And, as the reader we see him lose, he loses his beautiful and nearly perfect wife. This story can relate to Frankenstein in that science can unlock so many answers but sometimes when a scientist pushes his desire for more he might find something he doesn't like. In the end of the Birthmark we see the scientist achieved in his quest, but we don't know what happened later. In Frankenstein Victor is so enticed by his work that only when he sees what monster he created does he reproach his work, cursing this monster he made. later when he believes that the creature killed his youngest brother it only makes him more angry and sad that he worked so hard for only making a catastrophe.

Side: Themes
1 point

The wife in the story appears very respectful. She loves her husband and he (in a way) loves her back. I would say that during this time it was read, a woman should not obey and please their husbands at all costs. During the time this was written, society believed that a woman was meant to please their husband at all costs. I also found it interesting because there is a parallel identity between this story and The Castle of Otranto. When Georgiana dies she cries for her husband not to be sad by rejecting "the best the earth could offer". In Castle of Otranto Matilda is killed by her father and Manfred says, "I took thee for Isabella. Oh, canst thou forgive the blindness of my rage?" and Matilda responds saying she can and will.

Side: Themes
1 point

In the Birthmark, the scientist loved his wife, but he loved science more. He had studied science for a long time and decided to get married. He couldn't accept her birthmark though. He wanted to get it off and the only way he thought possible was through science. He loved science for its master-key like form, unlocking door after door. He couldn't break away from science because it was him. He believed everything could be solved through its use. In the end his chooses the science over his wife, show a stronger affection for proving that his science was perfect, despite its repercussions on others.

Side: Themes