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It is one of the many contradictions in the Bible. How can God and Jesus be the same character? And if they are, why would the devil try and tempt God himself? Why would Jesus question why God (i.e. himself) had forsaken him?
If an modern author wrote it as a work of fiction his editor would send it back for being uncredible.
It is one of the many contradictions in the Bible. How can God and Jesus be the same character?
It is not a contradiction because they are not the same physical character. Jesus is working on behalf of God, therefore the works of Jesus are God's doings.
Let me see if I can explain this, so even an atheist can grasp it. Atag's family moved to Reno and his 9 year old son Johnny told everyone that he moved to Reno. Did 9 year old Johnny move to Reno without his parents? What Johnny did can also be assumed that his parents did as well or at least his parents were aware of his actions. (Made arrangements to live with his grandparents, etc.)
Yes now that would be fiction that could be believed. If Jesús is only the son of God (aren't we all God's children anyway?) then I understand that. It is saying that he is God that doesn't make any sense. I suspect the idea of the trinity was something that was thought up after his death so that Christians didn't doubt the importance of Christ.
No it doesn't say that He is The Most High, that is a misinterpretation. Precept MUST be upon precept -Isaiah 28:10, else wise, Scripture will never be understood. The Messiah was a Prophet raised up from our brethren, from the tribe of Judah. He had the LAWS upon Him to teach the Yashralites the LAWS to receive life in the Kingdom. The Yashralites today are still to keep the LAWS, else wise, they will perish.
Catholicism invented the "Holy Trinity" and Christianity adopted it. Christians made their "Jesus" The Higher Power and now they worship The Messiah. They took the power away from The Most High and made The Messiah The Creator. Christians have no understanding of Scriptures; all they do is create fairy tales out of our Scriptures.
I understand what you are saying, but only those who are the elect have the knowledge and wisdom of Scripture. It's not a contradiction, it's just that individuals don't know Scripture, so they interpret it thinking that it means one thing, when in fact it means something completely different. Catholics and Christians are the one's, that I know of, that follow this lie.
Actually, it is a lie. The Messiah is not The Most High; He is the son of Joseph and Mary; He came into the world just as you and I did; with male sperm and female egg.
It is one of the many contradictions in the Bible. How can God and Jesus be the same character?
It is not a contradiction because they are not the same physical character. Jesus is working on behalf of God, therefore the works of Jesus are God's doings.
Let me see if I can explain this, so even an atheist can grasp it. Atag's family moved to Reno and his 9 year old son Johnny told everyone that he moved to Reno. Did 9 year old Johnny move to Reno without his parents? What Johnny did can also be assumed that his parents did as well or at least his parents were aware of his actions. (Made arrangements to live with his grandparents, etc.)
Your confusing yourself because I said the "Holy Trinity" is a lie; you say it's not, then you say, "It is not a contradiction because they are not the same physical character. Jesus is working on behalf of God, therefore the works of Jesus are God's doings."
It is not a lie because the Trinity is, The Father, The Son and Holy Spirit. The physical God (whatever this maybe), the physical Son of God and all that encompasses the Holy Spirit.
Let me attempt to explain this with an example in which you can relate to.
Obama, Biden, and the power that comes with their jobs; Presidential
It is not a lie because the Trinity is, The Father, The Son and Holy Spirit. The physical God (whatever this maybe), the physical Son of God and all that encompasses the Holy Spirit.
{No they are not one, that is why The Messiah has a family tree. Scripture calls Him the son of Joseph. John 6:42}
Acts 13:23 - Of this man's seed (sperm) hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Seed -
seed, offspring
From speiro; something sown, i.e. Seed (including the male "sperm"); by implication, offspring; specially, a remnant (figuratively, as if kept over for planting) -- issue, seed.
The Messiah is not The Most High, He was a prophet raised from the tribe of Judah.
Acts 3:22 - For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Hebrews 7:14 - For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Obama, Biden, and the power that comes with their jobs; Presidential
{Those are two different people though. Yes, they have the same powers the come with their jobs, but they are not the same people.}
Yes, it is. You Christians need to learn the Scriptures and stop preaching what ya'll think it means. Let the Scriptures do the talking, not your feelings.
There are no absolutely clear verses that fully support the idea of a "trinity". However, there are verses that have lead people to come to this assumption. I'll go through some of them.
Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” (In Hebrew Immanuel is translated to "God with us")
Of course some have said this could have just been a typical name.
John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”
This verse is quite interesting. Jesus is quite literally saying that if you have seen him you've seen God.
No thank you, I know Scripture from beginning to end.
These are verses that contradicts what "Christianity" teaches.
Romans 1:3 - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
(Yahusha (Jesus) was made of the seed or sperm of Yahceph; Yahceph is from the seed of David.)
John 14:28 - Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
(Yahusha say's, "for my Father is greater than I"; If the Messiah is Most High in deed, why would He say Yahuah is greater than him? "Christian" lies.)
John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.
(Silly "Christians"; this verse clearly shows separation. It does not say I and my Father are one deity! A precept, which "Christians" do not use, is Yahuah and Yahusha are one in agreement. 1 John 5:8 - And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.)
Ephesians 1:17 - That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
(It does not say the god that is jesus christ, it is showing separation again.)
1 Corinthians 15:28 - And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
-There are many more verses that contradict the so-called "holy trinity" lie and that also contradict what christians teach.
No thank you, I know Scripture from beginning to end.
Is that so? Impressive.
Romans 1:3 - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flessh
(Yahusha (Jesus) was made of the seed or sperm of Yahceph; Yahceph is from the seed of David.)
This is true, but keep in mind Jesus was born approximately 1,000 years after David. When people said Jesus was the son of David they meant that he is the fulfillment of the Old Testament promise. He is referred to as the son of David quite a few times.
John 14:28 - Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
(Yahusha say's, "for my Father is greater than I"; If the Messiah is Most High in deed, why would He say Yahuah is greater than him? "Christian" lies.)
In theory God the Father is the greatest power of the three as he is the starter of creation. The trinity is described as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.
(Silly "Christians"; this verse clearly shows separation. It does not say I and my Father are one deity! A precept, which "Christians" do not use, is Yahuah and Yahusha are one in agreement. 1 John 5:8 - And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.)
What? One is unity in this context. If I say my friend and I are one then that means unison. I'm not sure how you understand this as separation. Also, yes, it doesn't say they are one deity. It's more of an implied understanding based off other portions of text in the bible.
Ephesians 1:17 - That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
(It does not say the god that is jesus christ, it is showing separation again.)
This verse isn't even within the scope of our topic. This verse is talking about gaining wisdom and revelation through God. This isn't talking about the trinity. It would help if we used verses that only spoke of, or demonstrate the nature of, the trinity or the lack thereof.
1 Corinthians 15:28 - And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
No explanation for this verse? How am I supposed to understand your criterion for which you analyze these verses?
-There are many more verses that contradict the so-called "holy trinity" lie and that also contradict what christians teach.
"In theory God the Father is the greatest power of the three as he is the starter of creation. The trinity is described as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit."
(Exactly, "In theory"; it is a theory, not truth. There is no Scripture where the Most High or the Messiah said, "I god am Jesus Christ" or "I Jesus Christ am god." Yahuah has a blood line, from David; He is from the seed or sperm of David. In biblical days, the tradition for completing a marriage was having sex. So, in order for Mary and Yahceph to be husband and wife they had to have sex, and also to prove that she was indeed a virgin.)
"What? One is unity in this context. I'm not sure how you understand this as separation. Also, yes, it doesn't say they are one deity. It's more of an implied understanding based off other portions of text in the bible."
(-No, they are not. I AND my Father are one; there is separation when He says, I AND my Father are one; He didn't say I god am jesus or I jesus am god (if you notice, I didn't add the word "AND"). They are one in agreement, that is why I provide a precept. The Most High told us in Scripture how to read Scripture; we gain understanding through precepts.) -Psalms 119:104 - Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
(Reading just line upon line is the false way. The books in Scripture are not in order, this is why we need precepts to fully understand Scripture.)
Isaiah 28:10 - For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
(If you read the verses above and some after the 10th verse in the 28th chapter of Isaiah, the Most High talks about how to correctly read Scripture. Again, the books in Scripture are not in order, which is why we need precepts.)
("If I say my friend and I are one then that means unison." If that was the case, you wouldn't have added the word "AND". When you add "AND" you are implying a separation of two things or two beings. So if you wanted to say you AND your friend are one person, you would say, “I am my friend and my friend is I.”)
"This verse isn't even within the scope of our topic. This verse is talking about gaining wisdom and revelation through God. This isn't talking about the trinity. It would help if we used verses that only spoke of, or demonstrate the nature of, the trinity or the lack thereof."
(If you read carefully, Ephesians 1:17 is showing separation between Yahuah and Yahusha. "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ..." It doesn't say that the god that is jesus christ.)
"No explanation for this verse? How am I supposed to understand your criterion for which you analyze these verses?" -My apologies, I didn't think you'd need clarification of this verse that shows separation of the two entities.
1 Corinthians 15:28 - And when all things shall be subdued (submitted) unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
(“then shall the Son also himself (Yahusha) be subject unto him (Yahuah the Most High) that put all things under him (Yahusha)….again, showing separation. Christ is going to subject or submit Himself to The Higher Power.)
So whenever you see verses that seem to say the Messiah and the Most High are one entity, look for the words “and” and “with” because these two words show separation. If I say myself “and” my mother, I am showing me myself and another person, my mother. If I say I am with my mother, separation is being shown because I (myself) am with my mother (another being).
Here are more verses that contradict the holy trinity:
1 Corinthians 11:3 - But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(the head of every man is Yahusha (Christ); and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Yahusha (Christ) is Yahuah (God). If the Messiah is the Most High, why and how can the Most High be head of himself? That makes no sense to me. They are two separate entities.)
1 John 5:5-6 - Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? (6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
(“Yahusha (Jesus) is the Son of Yahuah (God), it does not say jesus who is god in the form of the flesh. “This is he (Yahusha; Christ) that came by water and blood…(Yahusha came through the process like me and you, through water and blood; blood in this context is also known as sperm; He has a blood line. “And it is the Spirit that beareth witness…” The Spirit brings to life. Scripture is telling you these three things are necessary; water, blood and the Spirit.
1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(“For there are THREE, not ONE, that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost…” “and these three are one.” Does that mean they are all one entity, lets find out.
John 10:30 – I and (a word that is separating) my Father are one.
(I “AND” my Father, two separate entities.)
Now lets find out what the Most High means by “we are one” or “I and my Father are one.”
John 17:21 - That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(“That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me…” If you lack edification and you don’t understand, it’s going to get more explicit to explain what He means by “in Him” so re-read that verse very carefully to fully grasp it. Does it mean that Yahusha was just meat, then the Most High comes in and then look, “I’m the Messiah now,” and then comes back out and says “I’m the creator now!” is this what He means? No, check this out, “and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:” Does this part mean we are going to be the Messiah, or we are going to be Christ like? The Most High is showing us that we will be like Christ, and we will be one, like Christ is with the Most High. Once we do what? Submit to His will and do His work.
John 17:22 - And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:…
(“And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them;” The glory that the Most High has given the Messiah, His son, the power of the Spirit, the glory, righteousness, is the same thing the Most High is going to give to us; the same thing Christ is going to give to us. “that they (we) may be one,…” that we may be one! Does that mean that we are going to be the Higher Power? No, what it is saying is we are going to be God like; our character, our mind, our Spirit, we will be like the Messiah. “even as we are one:” So, they are one, like how? Christ came to do the will of the Father, and because of that, The Almighty One blessed Him with that true Spirit, and now you have a duplicate, you have a double because He is God like and we are going to be Christ like. So this is what The Most High is telling us what the “one” is representing. It doesn’t mean that we are suddenly going to be The Creator, that’s chaos.)
John 5:36 - But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
(Clearly this verse shows separation. The Almighty One sent the Messiah to do His (God) will and works. If Christ and God were one entity, why would Christ Himself say, “for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.”? That whole trinity lie causes nothing but confusion for the so-called modern day Christians and the Most High is not the author of confusion - 1 Corinthians 14:33)
John 5:30 - I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
(“because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” Again, He (Yahusha) is separating Himself from The Most High Yahuah. Christ has no power without The Creator.)
Ephesians 1:20 - Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
(Who set him? The Most High did, He didn’t set Himself.)
Galatians 1:1 - Paul, an apostle, not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;
(“but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;” There’s that word “and” again, showing a separation, two entities, not one. It does not say, “but by Jesus Christ who is God the Father, who raised himself from the dead.)
Philippians 1:2 - Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Once you go through these letters, you will always see Paul start them off this way, making a distinction between The Father and The Son.)
Psalms 110:1 - The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool
(David is saying 2 different Lords here (LORD and Lord), it’s The Most High and His son Yahusha The Christ.)
Proverbs 30:4 - Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
(So King Solomon is letting us know that the Messiah has always been in the Holy Scriptures…He just manifested Himself in the flesh in the New Covenant for the sins of Yahshrael. Deuteronomy 18:15 - The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; -This verse is prophesying the coming of the Savior of Yahshrael.)
Matthew 19:17 - And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(Yahusha The Messiah took all of the credit off of Himself and said, “there is none good but one, that is, God:” So He (Christ) is talking about The Most High and He did not say, “there is none good but one, that is, I Jesus Christ who am God.”)
Proverbs 8:22 - The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
(Before anything was created The Messiah was there with the Father.)
Proverbs 8:23 - I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
(Before there was anything, The Messiah was ordained to be heir over everything.)
Read chapter 8 in the book of Proverbs. The Messiah is speaking. From the beginning He was in heaven with The Most High.
John 10:36 - Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
(It is telling you who The Messiah is, He is THE SON OF GOD; He didn’t say I the son of god am god.)
I’m not going to list them all, that is your job to read the Scriptures and read precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little –Isaiah 28:10. I will however, break down a verse/verses for you. Keep in mind that whenever Scripture says Christ and The Most High are one, it does not necessarily mean they are one entity. It means they are one in agreement. It means they have the same characteristics, attributes, the same minds.
Exactly, "In theory"; it is a theory, not truth. There is no Scripture where the Most High or the Messiah said, "I god am Jesus Christ" or "I Jesus Christ am god." Yahuah has a blood line, from David; He is from the seed or sperm of David. In biblical days, the tradition for completing a marriage was having sex. So, in order for Mary and Yahceph to be husband and wife they had to have sex, and also to prove that she was indeed a virgin.
Like I have already said seed of David is a term used to describe the fulfillment of prophecy. Jesus cannot be the direct sperm of a man that existed 1000 years before him. That logic is simple enough.
No, they are not. I AND my Father are one; there is separation when He says, I AND my Father are one; He didn't say I god am jesus or I jesus am god (if you notice, I didn't add the word "AND"). They are one in agreement, that is why I provide a precept. The Most High told us in Scripture how to read Scripture; we gain understanding through precepts.) -Psalms 119:104 - Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
(Reading just line upon line is the false way. The books in Scripture are not in order, this is why we need precepts to fully understand Scripture.)
The word "and" doesn't negate the notion of Jesus and God being one. I have given you an example as well and I believe I used the word "and". The word and merely connects the two.
Here is the definition of the word "and".
And: used to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences that are to be taken jointly. Ex: "bread and butter"
sSynonyms: Together with, along with, with, as well as, in addition to, also
Like I have said, and is bond the two together, thus my point still stands valid.
If that was the case, you wouldn't have added the word "AND". When you add "AND" you are implying a separation of two things or two beings. So if you wanted to say you AND your friend are one person, you would say, “I am my friend and my friend is I.”)
I'm not sure you understand the notion of the trinity. The trinity is the idea of God being one God but having three distinct paths. Of course they will sound separate. Using the word "and" doesn't negate the notion of the trinity.
If you read carefully, Ephesians 1:17 is showing separation between Yahuah and Yahusha. "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ..." It doesn't say that the god that is jesus christ.
Mostly because the verse isn't applicable here.
“then shall the Son also himself (Yahusha) be subject unto him (Yahuah the Most High) that put all things under him (Yahusha)….again, showing separation. Christ is going to subject or submit Himself to The Higher Power.
Yes, because the trinity is composed of three separate things. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These verses do not deny the existence of the trinity.
So whenever you see verses that seem to say the Messiah and the Most High are one entity, look for the words “and” and “with” because these two words show separation. I
That is quite problematic and quite contradictory to the standard definition of the two words.
1 Corinthians 11:3 - But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(the head of every man is Yahusha (Christ); and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Yahusha (Christ) is Yahuah (God). If the Messiah is the Most High, why and how can the Most High be head of himself? That makes no sense to me. They are two separate entities.)
I don't think you fully understand the trinity. You should probably learn more about the trinity before reading these verses. Once you understand the trinity all will become clear. Here is a more precise definition of the trinity, actually I'll list a few.
Trinity: Also called Blessed Trinity, Holy Trinity. the union of three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) in one Godhead, or the threefold personality of the one Divine Being.
The doctrine of the Trinity means that there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons — the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Stated differently, God is one in essence and three in person. These definitions express three crucial truths: (1) The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, (2) each Person is fully God, (3) there is only one God.
Here are verses that remain consistent with these two definitions.
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men.
So far we know that in the beginning was the word. The word was with god, which means the exist separately together. Now we also now know that the word is God which means they are the exact same thing, but separate in nature.
John 1
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.[d] 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God,[e] who is at the Father's side,[f] he has made him known.
The word became flesh and dwelt among us. So, basically God dwelt among humans. We now also know that the the word, that became flesh, which is also known to be God, is also the Son from the Father. These verses also say that no one has ever seen God, but then it says that God is at the Father's side. God has a father? Jesus has a Father known as God the Father. Who, according to the trinity, has a son known as God the Son. We also know that this God has made himself known. Jesus made himself known. Jesus is God. The logic here is consistent with the definitions of the trinity I have provided.
I have taken the time to read through the rest of your verses, and sadly they do not negate the notion of the trinity and they most certainly do not negate the logic I have shared here.
Like I have already said seed of David is a term used to describe the fulfillment of prophecy. Jesus cannot be the direct sperm of a man that existed 1000 years before him. That logic is simple enough.
(What? You are one very confused "Christians". Jesus is from the seed of David because Yahceph is from the seed of David, which makes the Messiah from the seed of David.)
The word "and" doesn't negate the notion of Jesus and God being one. I have given you an example as well and I believe I used the word "and". The word and merely connects the two.
Here is the definition of the word "and".
And: used to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences that are to be taken jointly. Ex: "bread and butter"
sSynonyms: Together with, along with, with, as well as, in addition to, also
Like I have said, and is bond the two together, thus my point still stands valid.
(Yes, you are very confused. When you are with someone that is not yourself, you are with another entity. If I say you and your dog are one, does that mean that you are a dog or that your dog is a human? That's non-sense. You "Christians" worship the savior instead of worshiping the Most High, without the Most High there would be no savior.)
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit=3, that has somehow turned into 1, that's odd.....Now I see why atheists laugh at "Christians" at make fun of their trinity. God had sex with Mary, ahaha, that's a good one.
Well it's obvious I'm not going to get through to you; you are stuck in those false lies and if you are stuck in those false lies, the truth is not in you. "Christians" keep no commandments, therefore the truth is not in them. 1 John 2:4 - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. If you want to remain ignorant, then I must let you remain ignorant, I can't force you to believe Scripture. -1 Corinthians 14:38 - But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Forgive me I had a misunderstanding of your presentation of the word "and", but my point remains valid until you can logically dismantle it. You have yet to do so, and now I am beginning to assume that you haven't formulated a counter argument yet that can fully counter what I posted.
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit=3, that has somehow turned into 1, that's odd.....Now I see why atheists laugh at "Christians" at make fun of their trinity. God had sex with Mary, ahaha, that's a good one.
You are mocking God which is not something I would do I would think about what you type before you type it. Blasphemy comes in many ways.
Also, yes. Three natures of God. Think about it likes the three stages of water.You have ice, water, and vapor. All different, but still water. Hopefully that metaphor gives you proper insight on the basis of the Trinity.
We have our different views and I will accept that, but you haven't disproven my reasoning behind the trinity. Are you going to counter it? Otherwise my statement remain valid and in the necessity of debate I would be on the successful side here.
You are mocking God which is not something I would do I would think about what you type before you type it. Blasphemy comes in many ways.
(I'm not mocking God, you "Christians" are blaspheming in His name. You have not provided any Scripture that say's God impregnated Mary with the Holy Spirit seed. Scripture clearly tells us Christ is from the seed of David, yet you continue to ignore that. John 7:42 - Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?)
No, it doesn't. My point explains how Jesus is God and how he is one of the three persons in the Trinity. We also know he was born from a virgin Mary. Your point doesn't invalidate mine.
You still have not provided any Scripture saying that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary! I already showed you all the verses that say Christ has a genealogy, you have yet to provide any Scripture saying He doesn't.
It seems like you are attempting to shift the subject in order to turn the tides, but I don't think that will work for you. Even if Mary had intercourse with a man in order to give birth to Jesus it wouldn't negate the logic I have given you.
Where is the Scripture? I'm asking for Scripture and you keep beating around the bush. Where is the Scripture saying that the Holy Spirit was banging Mary in the back room?
I never said that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary. I'm 100% sure I never said that, and quote me if you will, you will not find a quote where I claimed Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. You are trying to shift the subject in an aggressive manner. Why? have I angered you or perhaps you lack an efficient response at the moment?
I'm not angry, never, that's pointless. I'm trying to let you see that God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three different entities. God is the Higher Power, Christ has a genealogy, meaning He has forefathers, through Joseph, which is His daddy. The Holy Ghost is the Law, the Word. So when Mary was pregnant with Jesus, He had the Law put upon Him and He was our (Yahshraelites) Prophet.
Deuteronomy 18:18 - I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
(This Prophet is referring to Christ. He came from the tribe of Judah. The Most High put the Law in Him to teach the Yahshraelites so that we can keep the Laws.)
Christ is not God and He was a Prophet. I can be a Prophetess (which I'm not), does that mean I'm God because He sent me? No, that's non-sense. That would mean that The Most High has put the Law upon me to teach my Hebrew Sisters and children and warn of the upcoming destruction. That is what you "Christians" don't understand. You guys are worshiping Christ as God and He is not God. Christ is not the Creator, The Most High is The Creator. Yes, you are still to believe in The Messiah as your savior but not make Him God, you guys are taking the power away from the Creator.
Scripture is simple to understand if you are part of the elect because you will have the Law upon you. If you believe that 3 entities can all of a sudden become one, the truth is not in you, the Law is not in you because Scripture clearly tells you that Christ has a blood (sperm) line, yet you guys ignore that and continue teaching that He is God, when He is not, He was a Prophet that was sent for Israel.
So, i hope you know this helps my argument. Is the Holy Ghost is the word and God is the word then God and the Holy Ghost are the same. If Jesus is also the word (see my previous argument) then Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit. You just proved my point.
Actually it doesn't because you have only provided three or four Scriptures that say the same thing, but you have not provided any other Scriptures nor have you provided Precepts. I'm going to break down this verse for you in a more easier way so that you can understand it, but first, let me ask you this question. Why would Joseph even be mentioned in Scripture if he is not the biological father of Christ? What would be the point of having Joseph in the Picture? Apparently to you Christians, the The Most High planted a seed in Mary’s womb and created Christ because that is how you guys are putting it if you say Joseph is not His father. So why would Matthew 1:16 even make mention of Joseph? What did Joseph do that was so great, why is he in the picture? Why does Matthew 1:1-16 even mention the genealogy of Christ if He wasn’t made by sperm? Why are Christ’s forefathers even mentioned in Matthew 1:1-16? Can you answer me that?
When you answer my questions, I will give you a more simple break down of what John 1:1 really means because that verse and verses that say, I and my Father are one, are really the only verses you Christians can provide, but you guys ignore Christ’s genealogy because you guys cannot explain it.
Joseph was not the biological father to Jesus, but he raised him. The guy who raises the messiah as his own, despite not having fathered him, is a VERY important person. Your assumption that Joseph is the father of Jesus is as assumptive as making up any other reason why Joseph did not "begat" Jesus. Yours is an assumption, just like theirs.
EDIT: Providing 3 or 4 scriptures that support ones argument is better than you providing one scripture that fails to support your argument.
"16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."
In other words, Joseph is the son of Jacob and is the husband of Mary. Jesus was born to Mary. All previous scriptures explicitly state that the father begat the son except for this one.
You may have missed this edit above : Providing 3 or 4 scriptures that support ones argument is better than you providing one scripture that fails to support your argument.
In other words, Joseph is the son of Jacob and is the husband of Mary. Jesus was born to Mary. All previous scriptures explicitly state that the father begat the son except for this one.
{Simple minded people, smh.... There is a reason why Joseph is mentioned in the genealogy of Jesus, don't you understand that?}
You threw Genesis 1:3-5 up, here's how it is not talking about a party.
Genesis 1:3-5 - And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
{He called the light DAY, and the darkness NIGHT. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Now please tell me where it talks about a party?}
Are you prepared to read a lot of Scripture? because I must go precept upon precept when teaching, it is a commandment (Isaiah 28:10). If I go line upon line, you are going to get confused because the Books in Scripture are not in order.
You presented one line and said that it says something which it clearly does not. You now wish to convince me of the falsehood by saying that I must first read a whole bunch of lines that also individually fail to say what you are claiming. The end result is that, after taking a number of individual lines that fail to prove your point, I will then recognize the truth of your point.
Explains your ability to read, I'm not a sir, kiddo :)
You will never unlock Scripture reading line after line; you will live a confused life. So if you are a "Christian" continue worshiping you're white Jesus.
Apologies Ma'am. Your gender doesn't detract from your charlatan methods. I am no Christian. I simply take issue with flaws of reason or, in your case, direct misrepresentation.
Do you turn to insults every time you fail? I am not insulting the scripture, I'm insulting your ability concerning it. If you had any ability, you wouldn't have read "Begat" where there is none.
My claim is that the scripture you provided does not say what you claim it does. It needs no other scripture. It's right there, not saying it. There is not Begat between Jesus and Joseph. And you have never shown where it does.
So provide 3 or 4 Scriptures then, I'm waiting. You want me to provide Scripture but you don't have to. I provided Scripture that shows He has a bloodline, meaning he came from an egg and sperm. A woman does not have sperm, she has eggs and the sperm of the man fertilizes those eggs to create a baby.
Not ONE! You can't provide one scripture that disproves that God says "lets have a party"!. You've got to take the book as a whole. You are so simple minded.
Idk the bible very well, but if that's a direct quote it clearly says that Joseph is the husband of Mary. It does not say that he begat Jesus. Which is kind of the point no?
If the Messiah is from the seed (sperm) of David, then that means He is from the seed of Yahceph because Yahceph is from the seed of David. Christ has a genealogy, which means He was created like you and I, the womans eggs and the mans sperm.
Yes IF he is from the seed of David. Your quote clearly does NOT say that he is. That whole genealogy fails to culminate in Jesus according to your quote.
The Scripture does not say IF He is from the seed of David it says that He is. Read the verse carefully. I'm human so what I say is not always accurate that is the reason why I provide Scripture.
Matthew 1:1 - The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Joesph is from the seed of David. Jesus is not from the seed of Joseph. Therefore, Jesus is not from the seed of David.
(Then what you are saying is that Scripture is not true. I showed you the genealogy of The Messiah in Matthew 1:1-16.)
There is a reason why Matthew 1:16 says, "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." It takes a male and female to make a baby. I have never seen a woman get impregnated by the Law (Holy Ghost).
Your quote of genealogy supports what I have said. You should read what you posted. Jesus is the only one in your line who was not "Begat". He is the son of Mary wife of Joseph. For all we know she was sleeping around so the bible politely left it out. I never said Jesus was born of a ghost, simply that he was not (according to scripture) born of Joseph.
Have you even read Scripture and put all the pieces together because Scripture is not in order. I'm seeing nothing but your words on the screen, but you have yet to provide any Scripture to support your claim.
I don't need to present scripture to see that what you presented fails to show Joseph begat Jesus. All you need to do is show a line where is says he did. Easy.
I don't need to present scripture to see that what you presented fails to show Joseph begat Jesus.
{Actually, you do. You want to say that Joseph is not the biological father of Christ, yet you cannot provide any Scripture that supports your claim, which means, you have no idea what in the world you are talkin about.}
All I have to show is that your one scripture fails to support your one claim. If your claim is so well supported, you don't need 3 or 4, just one. If you could show one scripture that says what you say it does, then I would stand corrected.
There is a reason why I provided more than one Scripture, the Scriptures are not in order, Precept MUST be upon Precept -Isaiah 28:10
If you give me one verse and leave it at that, you are not speaking truth, that is why The Most High told the children of Yahshrael Precept MUST be upon Precept.
But if you present one scripture, and then say that it says something which it clearly does NOT say, there is not scripture to counter it. It's simply a false statement that you have made. Similarly, you can never find scripture disproving that God said "lets have a party". You have provided scripture that fails to say what you claim. It takes no more scripture than what you have already provided to see that.
Okay, since apparently you know the Scriptures, answer me this.
Why does John 3:16 say, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
But then in 1 John 2:15 He says, "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
If God loved the world like John 3:16 says, why is He telling us in 1 John 2:15, "Love not the world"? If He loved the world, wouldn't He command us also to love the world?
You are showing God loving the world and telling man not to. So what? There's a lot of things God does that man doesn't do. What's your point? And where does this disprove my scripture about parties?
You are showing God loving the world and telling man not to. So what? There's a lot of things God does that man doesn't do. What's your point? And where does this disprove my scripture about parties?
{You have confused yourself. That's a contradiction if you read line upon line.}
I found no contradiction where you wanted me to. Nor am I confused. You have neither shown where God does not say "lets have a party" nor have you shown where Joseph begat Jesus. Have you even read the bible?
It is, because He is from the bloodline of David. David was a thousand years before the Messiah. Joseph is from the seed of David, therefore if The Messiah has a bloodline by sperm that means He was created by sperm. Many people do not understand Scripture because Scripture is not in order. The Holy Scriptures is a puzzle one has to put together to get the picture and many Christians don't believe that. That is the reason why it seems there are so many contradictions.
The "Christian" Holy Trinity is a LIE, just like the religion Christianity!
How is it a lie?
"Christians" take verses completely out of context.
We don't really take things completely out of context. It's mostly people who don't know the Bible very well mostly people who aren't Christians who take things out of context, to support false statements like for example "God is supposedly evil" to try to justify their claim.
So your telling me when Scripture says, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.-Romans 9:13" that the Most High is loving? That is a "Christian" doctrine that the Most High loves everyone because Scripture clearly shows His wrath. You "Christians" do not understand Scripture, nor do ya'll use precepts. When Scripture says one thing, ya'll do the opposite or say the opposite of what Scripture states.
How is the "Holy Trinity" a lie? Well first, "God" never had sex with Mary, that's how. Yahusha (Jesus) has a genealogy, He is from the seed (Sperm) of Yahceph (Joseph).
Romans 1:3 - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Yahceph is from the seed of David. Luke 2:4 - And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)
John 7:42 - Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
There are so many flaws in Christianity. You "Christians" read one verse and automatically think that's what it means, but ya'll never read the entire chapter of where the verse is located, and that is what confuses you all. For instance, Christians say the Messiah came to die for the sins of everyone, but Scripture says something completely different. The Messiah came for the lost sheep of Yahshrael.
Matthew 15:24 - But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Yahshrael (Israel).
So your telling me when Scripture says, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.-Romans 9:13" that the Most High is loving? That is a "Christian" doctrine that the Most High loves everyone because Scripture clearly shows His wrath. You "Christians" do not understand Scripture, nor do ya'll use precepts. When Scripture says one thing, ya'll do the opposite or say the opposite of what Scripture states.
You took that out of context just like I said in my previous argument. I do understand the scriptures. Just because maybe some Christians don't understand them well doesn't mean that all of them do. I know a lot of Christians who know their Bible very well. Maybe you encountered some people who were new to their faith.
How is the "Holy Trinity" a lie? Well first, "God" never had sex with Mary, that's how. Yahusha (Jesus) has a genealogy, He is from the seed (Sperm) of Yahceph (Joseph).
God implanted the seed into her through the Holy Spirit. He didn't need to have sex just to make her pregnant. It had to be God to impregnate her because if Joseph did it then the baby would be born a sinner and thus Jesus never sinned so it had to be God who impregnated her and not Joseph.
There are so many flaws in Christianity. You "Christians" read one verse and automatically think that's what it means, but ya'll never read the entire chapter of where the verse is located, and that is what confuses you all. For instance, Christians say the Messiah came to die for the sins of everyone, but Scripture says something completely different. The Messiah came for the lost sheep of Yahshrael.
Matthew 15:24 - But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Yahshrael (Israel).
There isn't many flaws actually in Christianity. You just see it in different angle than I do. I read the verse before it, and also after it. I'll even read the whole chapter to get better context of what's going on in that verse. I don't take things out of context like you just did with all of those verses. That's what non-believers like you and the rest of the other people on this site do.
Originally, Christ did come down to only save His people which is the Israelitesl, but since they rejected Him. He died for everyone else who were willing to follow Him.
You took that out of context just like I said in my previous argument. I do understand the scriptures. Just because maybe some Christians don't understand them well doesn't mean that all of them do. I know a lot of Christians who know their Bible very well. Maybe you encountered some people who were new to their faith.
(Are you saying I took Romans 9:13 out of context?)
God implanted the seed into her through the Holy Spirit. He didn't need to have sex just to make her pregnant. It had to be God to impregnate her because if Joseph did it then the baby would be born a sinner and thus Jesus never sinned so it had to be God who impregnated her and not Joseph.
(So God had sex with Mary? Ahaha, that's funny because Scripture say's the Messiah came from the seed of David.)
Romans 1:3 - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
John 7:42 - Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
So your holy trinity god had sex with mary fairy tale just went out the window because Scripture contradicts what you are saying.
Originally, Christ did come down to only save His people which is the Israelitesl, but since they rejected Him. He died for everyone else who were willing to follow Him.
(Well that's a lie because Scripture say's all nations of Yahshrael. The real Yahshraelites have been scattered throughout this earth, we are everywhere.
Deuteronomy 28:64 - And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.)
I would like for the so called "Christians" to show proof that the Messiah came from the Most High, i.e., from the Most High's seed (sperm).
People believe exactly what they want to believe. The limits of understanding make this dilemma clear. If you want to believe Jesus is the Messiah, it is a personal faith question. If you want to believe in scientism, it is the same problem. I mean the historicity is there if you want to look into first century Christianity, but admittedly it's not going to be conclusive decision making material. Ultimately for the Christian it is like this: "I believe in Jesus because to me He reveals a just and loving God who came to suffer with us."
Ah, another 'run with the herd', weak kneed troll taking the safe opinion of knocking Christianity. Why don't you cyber heroes do a bit if Islam bashing? Does the vision of having your empty head separated from your useless body put you off such an undertaking?The big difference between Islam and Christianity is that,due to the certainty of the truth in it's scriptures, including The Holy Trinity, Christianity is a significantly more robust faith well able to withstand the jibes and scoffing by the lower orders of mankind.
When the truth is exposed, no "Christian" will like and will become very offended because they think they know Scripture, but they really don't. What they believe and teach, contradicts what Scripture says.
Most of the people who bash Christianity live in societies where Christianity is the dominant religion, so of course that is the religion they will spend the most time criticizing. The reason that Christianity is able to better handle criticism is because it has developed more thoroughly due to the period of Enlightenment and post-Reformation criticism. But make no mistake: Before that, Christianity was just as prone to the same behavior that Islamic fundamentalism was, and that was when it included the same scripture.
Anyone can see it was an accusation. Similarly, anyone can see that the scripture you quote doesn't say what you pretend it says. When its pointed out you just say "well there's so much scripture to account for, before you realize that the quote says what I'm claiming rather than what it actually says". This is all very apparent to those with eyes to see. So yeah, I am done here.
Your done because Scripture says Christ has a family tree and you can't explain why He has a genealogy because you think God had sex with Mary, that's willfully being stupid. Don't go off of what I say...If I say you are a rapist, is it true, your a rapist, no, I would have to show proof that you are. That is why I gave you Scripture to show you that He has a daddy, He was created how you and I were created, by sex, that is why He has a blood line, just like you and I have a family tree.
genealogy - a line of descent traced continuously from an ancestor.
When ever the Scripture comes out, no Christian can explain it, so what do they do...they bring out some other kind of accusation, ignore the Scripture, or simply not respond back because they can't. They don't know the laws and customs of marriage that is explained in the Holy Scriptures.
Anyone can see that your arguments, do not support the Scriptures, they are simply what you think and what you want Scripture to say and mean, but a family tree is a family tree, you can't change that.
{Actually I have and if you go back to the debate Starchild123 and I were having, that you also put your opinions in, you will see that I posted the entire family tree of Christ. But just in case you say I never posted anything, I'll post it again.}
Matthew 1:1-16
1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
{If Joseph is not the sperm father of Christ, why is Joseph even mentioned in Christ's family tree? Why is Christ's family tree even mentioned at all if He did not come from the sperm of Joseph?}
"you think God had sex with Mary
I neither believe that not implied it. You're confused."
"Joesph is from the seed of David. Jesus is not from the seed of Joseph. Therefore, Jesus is not from the seed of David."
{What your implying here is that The Messiah did not come from Joseph. In other words, your saying God had sex with Mary. The first verse in the first chapter of Matthew clearly says, "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. - Matthew 1:1" so it is telling you who His forefathers were and His father because His sperm father (Joseph) is mentioned in His genealogy.}
"Nothing in scripture indicates Joseph is the father. You're confused."
{No, nothing in Scripture indicates that Joseph is the father, just Christ's genealogy in Matthew 1:1-16 that mentions Joseph in Christ's genealogy. You have to use common sense.}
If you posted on the debate starchild123 and I were having without even reading anything we were posting, then that is your fault. Next time before you go put in your arguments, make sure you read what has already been said so you don't look dumb because I post the His family tree.
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
I'm glad you re-posted this because it's exactly here that you failed to show that Joseph begat Jesus.
What your implying here is that The Messiah did not come from Joseph. In other words, your saying God had sex with Mary
If I imply that the adoptive dad is not the biological father, that in no way implies that God must be. It happens all the time and no one says God did it. The adopted genealogy of a person is not the same as a bloodline.
I'm glad you re-posted this because it's exactly here that you failed to show that Joseph begat Jesus.
{Why is Joseph in Christ's genealogy?}
If I imply that the adoptive dad is not the biological father, that in no way implies that God must be. It happens all the time and no one says God did it. The adopted genealogy of a person is not the same as a bloodline.
{Correct, that's why Scripture did not say the adoptive genealogy if Christ, it say's, "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. -Matthew 1:1" }
Correct, that's why Scripture did not say the adoptive genealogy
Also, it does not say that Joseph begat Jesus.
Why is Joseph in Christ's genealogy?
I already answered this question earlier. More to the point, if Joseph begat Jesus, why doesn't it say that? Why was everyone in the line of David begat by their fathers, but Joseph was simply married to Jesus's mom? You have never answered this.
I already answered this question earlier. More to the point, if Joseph begat Jesus, why doesn't it say that? Why was everyone in the line of David begat by their fathers, but Joseph was simply married to Jesus's mom? You have never answered this.
{What were the customs and laws to consummate marriage in Biblical days?}
I don't know. But if your argument is that things had to happen a certain way because breaches of custom are impossible, you are simoultaniously avoiding an answer and being foolish. Let's try again though. Why is Jesus the only one on that list who is not said to have been begat by his apparent father?
Thank you for showing that you have no clue what in the world you are talking about.
So you don't know what the traditions were in order to consummate marriage; you don't know who the father of Christ is (although Scripture is telling you, if you have common sense to figure it out); then you say Joseph was in Christ's family tree because he raised Christ....you are very lost and confused. You don't know Scripture, nor do you know what Precept upon Precept is but you want to teach someone Scripture who knows Scripture and has common sense to figure out what Scripture says. You are an individual that would lead some one to hell if they believe what you say.
I'm going to let the Elders teach you, they'll break it down for you precept upon precept because you don't know Scripture, yet your trying to teach someone who knows it.
Clink on the link and start at 6:10 because the first 5 minutes is them talking about combing Christian doctrine with truth and wicked people. If you don't want to watch the class, then it shows you are not interested in knowing the truth or that you just feel like a dummy because you can't use common sense.
I said at the very beginning that I don't know scripture. I'm not even a Christian. But I'm glad you finally got around to saying that it's your common sense that tells you that Joseph is the father because it certainly isn't stated in your scripture.
You don't know Scripture and yet your trying to argue your invalid points. Your going to keep arguing your same points over and over and over because you look foolish and your trying to cover yourself. You have not provided any Scripture to support your claims. I don't want to see your words, I want to see Scripture, and not Scripture that I have posted, show me Scripture that proves Joseph is not the biological father of Christ.
I don't care what you want to see haha. You're making an affirmative claim with no evidence. It's not incumbent upon me to to prove the negative. It is enough that your scripture doesn't say what you are claiming it does.
Well it's obvious you don't know anything about Scripture so I don't know why you even butted in, you just made yourself look really stupid. I'm done arguing with ignorance, you continue being ignorant and foolish. Your words, just like the rest of us, are nothing but deceitful words, that's why I want to see your Scripture and not your words, but again, it's obvious you know nothing about Scripture, the only thing you have are your same arguments over and over. I'm done, later ignorance.
Claiming that something is wrtten that isn't would be deceit. Demanding scripture that shows that something isn't written is deceit. I am doing the opposite.
If it seems to be the same argument over and over, that's because it's still true. Nowhere does it say that Joseph begat Jesus. It's not written anywhere. If it were I'm sure you would have quoted it by now.
Yeah, you already presented it. You then claimed that it says something that it doesn't say. You also said you derived your opinion from common sense as opposed to scripture. That's good enough for me. If it's not good enough for you then you can present your own example of scripture that says what you are claiming. So far you haven't. I'm not here to teach scripture, but I know bullshit when I see it.
Okay, you want Scripture saying that The Messiah is the son of Joseph.
John 6:42 - And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
Rather than an affirmation of your argument you have provided a question, and a rhetorical one at that. In the quote, "they" refers to those who wished to sow doubt in Jesus by calling into question what he was preaching. This quote is essentially saying "If Jesus is the son of Joseph and Mary, then he is a liar". After the doubters asked this question, many turned away from Jesus.
You still can't refute, that is why you are saying what you're saying. That is Scripture, that is not me stating that; it's not a quote, it's Scripture.
By the way, I like your made up thought, that is what you call being a willfully stupid.
Let me break this verse down for your simple mind.
John 6:42 - And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
And they said, Is not this Jesus,
{"They" is referring to the Yashralites who knew that He was the son of Joseph and Mary, that is why it says, "the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know?" The Yashralites are asking themselves, "isn't this the son of Joseph and don't we know His father and mother?"}
how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
{This is self explanatory if you have wisdom from the Scriptures. So, the Yashralites know that He is the son of Joseph and Mary and they are asking themselves isn't this the son of Joseph and Mary who we know; how is He the son of Joseph and Mary but then said, "I came down from heaven?"; so they are basically asking themselves how is The Messiah the son of Joseph and Mary when He said in v38,"For I came down from heaven". The Yashralites thought that He was born of the Holy Spirit and not of man and woman. The Holy Spirit are the LAWS which bring LIFE (meaning our souls will live for eternity in the Kingdom). The Messiah had the LAWS put upon Him and He was to teach those LAWS to the Yashralites so that we could have life and not perish.}
If you know Scripture (I'm talking about the real Hebrews), you'd have knowledge and common sense to figure out what Scripture is saying. Your stupid comment about me providing a "quote" is invalid because it's not a quote, it's Scripture. I think you made yourself look stupid enough trying to come up with another thought of what it could mean. Maybe you should stop trying to debate on topics that have to do with Scripture!
Yes those are the Hebrews who questioned how The Messiah is the son of Joseph and Mary and at the same time, came down from heaven. As for the Yashralites who crucified our Messiah, I'm not one of them, else wise, I'd have the Torah only. I believe The Messiah came for the lost sheep of the house of Yashral, but I do not believe that The Messiah is The Higher Power; that is a false teaching.
Nope I started a profile to do debates but I came across this debate and saw your retarded replies that made no sense so me being curious, I asked what was on my mind.
My comments have an easy point, that the bible doesn't say that Joseph begat Jesus (it does say that his detractors thought so).Unfortunately I've had to say it a number of different ways. If this idea doesn't make sense to you, perhaps it's because you know where the bible says it and I don't. If that's so then you might post it now rather than throwing insults in a poor first attempt at debate.
No they don't. The verses this woman provided are simple to understand. If you need an actual verse that says Joseph begat Jesus, even though he is listed in Jesus's family tree, you have to have some kind of mental condition. If you look at John 6:42, it DON'T say, "Is not this Jesus the STEP SON of Joseph......" it says, "Is not this Jesus the SON of Joseph......" so your post about Joseph being the adoptive father of Jesus is retarded as hell. You must be one of those lil boys who can accept the fact that they dumb as hell so they gota try to continue pushing for what they want to see so they won't have use their little peanut brains to think. You must have some kind of mental disability if you can't understand what the verses say, that or you must just be dumb as hell but I think you just DUMB AS HELL.
You've taken your first step in debate by conceding a valid point. Can you explain why the entire lineage indicates the father begat the son EXCEPT for Jesus?
I read 6:42 after it was posted here. It's Jesus's enemies trying to say he is a liar. That doesn't make your point at all, unless you are also saying that he is a liar.
You're back to throwing insults, it's not a good tactic in debate. When you say "if you don't agree than you're dumb" you haven't made your point, you have weakened it. If you came here to help your friend make her point, then you'll need to do more than try to shame me from my position. If I quit now, it will be with a valid point and you will have done more harm than good.
Can you explain why the entire lineage indicates the father begat the son EXCEPT for Jesus?
{You really are an idiot. Can you explain why Joseph is in the bloodline of Jesus? Can you explain why the Bible doesn't mention step father or adoptive father. Maybe you can also explain to me why Acts 2:30 says, ".....that of the fruit of HIS loins (private parts), according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;"}
.
Just in case you want to continue being retarded, here is the meaning of LOINS.
Loins = the region of the sexual organs, especially when regarded as the source of erotic or procreative power.
You're back to throwing insults, it's not a good tactic in debate. When you say "if you don't agree than you're dumb" you haven't made your point, you have weakened it. If you came here to help your friend make her point, then you'll need to do more than try to shame me from my position. If I quit now, it will be with a valid point and you will have done more harm than good.
The only good that will do, is showing your stupidity bruh. Like she said moron, you need to use your brain. Do you have any common sense dumb dumb? Btw, I ain't debating, I'm point out your stupidity.
I asked a question and you answered with another question and an insult. You really aren't good at this. Your quote from Acts is about the closest you've come to a real reason for your beliefs.
There is nothing gained in showing that someone is stupid. Saying it repeatedly doesn't make it so, rather it makes you seem like you have a weak position. I never wanted anything to do with your ridiculous cult. I just wanted to point out that the scripture didn't say what that lady claimed it said. It still doesn't and never will. Now piss off.
There is nothing gained in showing that someone is stupid. Saying it repeatedly doesn't make it so, rather it makes you seem like you have a weak position. I never wanted anything to do with your ridiculous cult. I just wanted to point out that the scripture didn't say what that lady claimed it said. It still doesn't and never will. Now piss off.
I ain't got no weak position you fool. You haven't refuted Yahshraela's or my arguments with any Scripture. We don't want to hear what you feel, we want Scriptures which you dumb behind could not give. Ain't no cult, just truth, which none of ya'll wicked fools can take. Scripture said exactly what Yahshraela claimed, you just a reject that don't understand the Scriptures. You couldn't even refute at least one argument with a verse, and that's pathetic, especially because you came in here thinking you knew what the hell you talking about and you don't know squat about the Bible. Ain't none of us want to hear your foolish arguments, we want the Scriptures brought our bruh. So take yo panzy behind else where and stop trying to debate the real Israelites cus we'll slice you up with Scripture.
I said from the start that I don't know scripture. I've never said otherwise. But anyone can see that what she presented doesn't say what she claimed it said. It doesn't take other scripture to see that.
If this is what you call debating, then you have a long way to go. But really, piss off.
Listen kiddo, you are making yourself look ignorant. If you can provide me with Scripture that says Joseph is the STEP FATHER or ADOPTIVE FATHER of The Messiah, then I will agree with you, but until then, your arguments are invalid.
I told you before that I don't know scripture. I've never hid the fact that I am ignorant of scripture. I've only said that you haven't shown me that Joseph begat Jesus. Since you know scripture, and you can't provide this information, I can only assume it's not in there. I'm not going to read the bible to find it, it's not my faith. This whole debate has been you representing your faith and me being unimpressed.
I'll gladly stop this debate. I'll leave it where I entered, with no evidence that Joseph is Jesus's dad. The only people who thought in the bible so were Jesus's enemies.
Listen, if you are not of the elect, you are not going to understand Scripture. The Scriptures are like a huge puzzle that you put together. What you want Scripture to say, is not going to be in there. You have to use your knowledge to be able to read and understand Scripture and to find the Precepts that go to that Scripture. All the verses that I provided, are showing that Joseph is in the family tree of The Messiah; I provided avverse that states The Messiah is the son of Joseph. There is a reason why Joseph is in the genealogy of Christ; there is a reason why The Messiah has a genealogy. Scriptures never mention, not even once, that Joseph is the STEP FATHER or ADOPTIVE FATHER of The Messiah, that's invalid.Your father is in your genealogy; your fathers sperm helped create you and remember, he is in your family tree, but he is not your father, nor is he your step father or adoptive father, but he is in your blood line. Does that make sense?
If you don't believe in The Most High, there should've been no reason for you to argue something you have no knowledge of.
I said in my very first statement that I do not know scripture, but that your verse didn't say what you were claiming. If your reading comprehension is such fail to understand my modern language, why should I trust that you have any understanding of archaic biblical language? Your cult is unimpressive. Your conduct is indecent. If you represent your faith I bet you do it well.
Mary was pregnant with Jesus before Joseph married her. An angel had to convince him to marry her. Would that have been the case if he knew the kid was his?
If you are going to come at me with Matthew 1:18, make sure you read the book of Luke chapter 1. In examining the birth of The Messiah you must start with Luke, Matthew don't start with it, you must start with Luke.
I listen to their videos but I'm not part of them. I don't believe in having different camps because it's like Christianity, every camp has different doctrine, but IUIC are really the only ones who don't use profanity when teaching, who follow, and always use precepts, but I am not part of IUIC.
No, we are not all evil, evil is ultimately a matter of opinion, but universally "evil" is used to describe some very bad or viciously violent and ruthless.
If you ever have thoughts about hurting someone physically or emotionally, your evil. If you have ever used profane language, your evil. If you have ever cheated on your wife, had thoughts of another woman or fantasize about another woman, your evil. If you do drugs (weed, crack, meth, etc...) your evil. If you get drunk, your evil. I'm not talking about the worlds view of the definition of evil, I'm talking about the Scriptural view. I'd don't live for the world, therefore my view on everything is all wickedness. I live according to Scripture and what Scripture teaches.
"If you ever have thoughts about hurting someone physically or emotionally, your evil." What if it is due to a mental condition, but you have never acted on it?
"If you have ever used profane language, your evil. " What if it is language not considered profane where you grew up, but is profane elsewhere?
"If you have ever cheated on your wife, had thoughts of another woman or fantasize about another woman, your evil." Does that include immediate attraction? Like if you are walking down the street and you see a pretty woman, and you think "That woman is pretty", is that enough??
"If you do drugs (weed, crack, meth, etc...) your evil. If you get drunk, your evil. " What about proscription drugs, or coffee? If not those, then why are the other ones evil? In the case of weed, did God not give humans all of the plants on the Earth (see the Rastafarian take on this)?
According to what Scripture teaches, if anyone has any mental condition or any illness, they are cursed because they do not abide by the Book of the Law; they do not follow what the Most High is telling us to do, nor do they keep any Commandments or follow Scripture.
Galatians 3:10 - For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Yahuah can see everything that is going to occur before it even occurs. He knows what kind of spirit dwells in us.
By profane I meant using bad words, such as, the f word, the b word, and so on.
Does that include immediate attraction? Like if you are walking down the street and you see a pretty woman, and you think "That woman is pretty", is that enough??
(If you see another woman that is not your wife, and you feel an attraction towards her or think that she is pretty, yes that is an evil though because it is lust.
Matthew 5:28 - But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.)
A man that is married (any woman you have sex with, you make her your wife) is not to look at any other woman nor think of any lustful thoughts of that woman, if she is not his wife and vice versa.
What about proscription drugs, or coffee? If not those, then why are the other ones evil? In the case of weed, did God not give humans all of the plants on the Earth (see the Rastafarian take on this)?
(Prescription drugs were invented by man. Prescription drugs were never provided by the Most High; Yahuah gave us herbal medicines. Marijuana is a herbal medicine, yet many abuse it for their own pleasure, which is a sin; sin in Yahuah's eyes is evil. Marijuana is only to be used to cure illness, not for ones own pleasure just to "feel the high" or relieve stress. If you are using Marijuana and you have no illness, you are abusing the herbal medicine and hurting your temple (body), which is a sin. Smoking weed every single day, has many negative side affects and it is destroying your body.)
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Corinthians 3:17 - If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Just a clarification: Marijuana has not been proven to have long term negative side effects, much less "destroy" one's body. Regardless, do you believe it is acceptable to partake in order to treat a symptom? Take for example, me: Due to a sports injury in high school, I have severe chronic back and neck pain, which also interferes with my ability to sleep. Marijuana serves as as both a muscle relaxer, which helps with day-long pain, helps serve as a pain killer (more through my ability to ignore the pain) and helps as a sleep aid. Is that sufficient for usage in a way that is not sinful, even if it is ever day?
And as for lust: One can look at another person and consider them attractive without necessarily lusting after them. Or do you consider attraction itself to be lustful?
Lastly, when it comes to profanity: I know multiple people who were raised by parents that didn't consider "curse words" to be profane, so they were raised thinking those were normal and acceptable. To them, they were not profane. Does a word simply need to be deemed profane by the majority of a society, or are there conditions set in scripture that indicate when a word is profane?
I meant for those who abuse Marijuana. Those who abuse Marijuana and have no illness, do develop negative side affects. I've noticed all pot heads to have short term memory loss; they cannot remember things. They also begin to have a lot of mucus coming from their lungs.
As I mentioned, if you have an illness, then yes the herbal medicine can be used. If you do not, then you have no need to be smoking it.
If you have an injury and doctors have prescribed you with Marijuana or you just found it to work for your illness, then it is okay to use it. But if there is nothing at all wrong with you and you are just smoking it for the high, then that is a sin. The Most High knows if you are using it correctly or not; He'll be the judge on that.
Yes, attraction is lustful because you are feeling something for a woman that is not your wife; attraction is lust, lust is adultery, which is something Yahuah hates and you will lose your salvation.
First, if parents tell their child(ren) there is nothing wrong with using profanity, those parents are going to be put to death by the Most High because He tells us how to raise our children.
Profane words that are not in Scripture but are in the world, are considered profanity. Yahuah and Yahusha never used profanity because that is corrupt language and when people incorporate profanity into their language, they do not speak wisdom, but evil. In the ancient Hebrew language, also the first tongue to ever exist, there was no English language. These profane words that people use today, were never in the ancient Hebrew language.
Yes, marijuana does cause short term memory loss during the "high", and, depending on the method of consumption, can cause short term mucus production, but you said it destroyed the body, which implies long term damage, which has not been proven.
"First, if parents tell their child(ren) there is nothing wrong with using profanity, those parents are going to be put to death by the Most High because He tells us how to raise our children." Wait, what? They will be put to death because they do not believe a certain word is profane and taught their children that?
The Trinity is just as much a lie as saying that your step mom is your mother. Sometimes things are grouped together because there is human nature to do so. Sometimes things are grouped together because it is easier to come up with an explanation. Scientist often group things together due to similarity, such as a whale a mammal. Why shouldn't Christians do what humans do?
The trinity is an interpretation from various texts found in the bible. It's counted as an official description for the nature of God for many churches and denominations. Many verses support it, and I haven't seen verses deny it.
I agree that the Roman Catholic Trinity doctrine is a compete lie...
We see in the Bible that Christ The Lamb who was Slain Before the foundation of the World did eXist before the Foundation of The world in the Predestinated Planning of The Father.
The Son, Yahoshua - His Spirit is eternal and is the Invisible Holy Spirit Of The Invisible God - Who , He - is a Spirit. And Christ Yahoshua, Is the Image or Manifestation of That Spirit. Gods Spirit placed His Spirit into Yahoshua and purchased His Brides Jew and Gentile Brides / wives - With His Very Own blood.
RMEMBER - Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with His own blood.
The Blood was the Blood of The Holy Spirit. They are 1.
We see - What the Spirit of God Looks like - Through The Eyes John. In a Vision.
The Basic Greek Manuscripts READ eXactly as FOLLOWS. Basic GREEK MANUSCRIPTS …
The Holy Spirit - Residing UPON His Throne. Here in - Rev 4:2.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven,
and sitting on the throne.
Rev 4:3 And sitting, a - G3706 vision - appearing as jasper and as sardine stone:
and there was a rainbow round about the throne, a - G3706 vision - appearing emerald.
This is How The GREEK MANUSCRIPTS READ. The Rest is Added by the Translators.
It is Ok To add Stuff to help People Understand. But the King James Translators Lie and Mistranslate to Alter and Change the Word Of God.
Lets Notice ANOTHER Mistake - The King James Translators make.
Rev 5:7 AndG2532 he cameG2064 andG2532 tookG2983 theG3588 bookG975 out ofG1537 theG3588 right hand G1188 of him that satG2521 uponG1909 theG3588 throne.G2362
The King James Translation is incorrect.
All the Manuscripts are saying here in Rev 5:7 is simply that THE LAMB - cameG2064 andG2532 tookG2983 theG3588 bookG975 FROM G1537 theG3588 right side G1188 of that G2521 uponG1909 theG3588 throne.G2362 .
We know - The Holy Spirit is THAT - Which is - THAT DWELLING, RESIDING - UPON The Throne.
The Holy Spirit Has no Hands, No Feet, No Rear End - To Sit, No Mouth and no Body. He is SPIRIT>/.. Invisible. Immortal, Light.
Christ, / The Lamb is the Physical Manifestation of that Holy SPIRIT. The Lamb Takes the Book that is - PRESENT - there at the RIGHT SIDE of the Throne . Not in the Hand of the Spirit on the Throne. There is no HAND - in the Verse.
There is NO right hand of Gods Spirit in the VERSE. The Translators Lied.
the RIGHT SIDE of the Throne is where Christ also is. That is HIS POSITION of POWER> That is Why Only HE = Is able to OPEN the Book that sits - THE BOOK is Sitting at the RIGHT SIDE of the THRONE
Christ is Also sitting at the RIGHT side of the POWER of the Spirit. He is the WORD of God.
And the Greek Word for A Hand Or Hands - is GREEK 5495 χείρ Cheir / Khire.
The hand. A Hand Or Hands.
And the Greek Word for Right Side. is GREEK 1188 δεξιός , Dexios, Dex-ee-os' The Right. Right.
REMEMBER
Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιός
Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χείρ
Rev 20:1 AndG2532 I sawG1492 an angelG32 come downG2597 fromG1537 heaven,G3772 havingG2192 theG3588 keyG2807 of theG3588 bottomless pitG12 andG2532 a greatG3173 chainG254 inG1909 hisG848 hand. Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χείρ
Notice the Manuscripts always tell You when it is the - RIGHT HAND. They always Put the Two Greek Words Together. Here the Greek Word ( RIGHT ) - Is not in the Manuscripts. Just the Word hand is mentioned in - Rev 20:1.
Here we see the Usage of
right Greek 1188 /
and hand Greek 5495 -
Used in the manuscripts.
Rev 1:16 AndG2532 he hadG2192 inG1722 hisG848 Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιός …. Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χείρ …… sevenG2033 stars:G792
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Rev 1:17 AndG2532 whenG3753 I sawG1492 him,G846 I fellG4098 atG4314 hisG848 feetG4228 asG5613 dead.G3498 AndG2532 he laidG2007 hisG848 Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιός …. Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χείρ …….uponG1909 me,G1691 ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Rev 13:16 AndG2532 he causethG4160 all,G3956 both smallG3398 andG2532 great,G3173(G2532) richG4145 andG2532 poor,G4434 (G2532) freeG1658 andG2532 bond,G1401 toG2443 receiveG1325 G846 a markG5480 inG1909 theirG848 Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιός …. Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χείρ
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
The Authors of the Scriptures TELL YOU Clearly that it is the RIGHT HAND. They always USE the Two GREEK WORDS> Right = Dexios and Hand = Cheir
Ok - Lets notice the Authors use Right and Foot - together.
Rev 10:2 AndG2532 he hadG2192 inG1722 hisG848 handG5495 a little bookG974 open:G455 andG2532 he setG5087 hisG848 Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιός / GREEK 4228 πούς pous pooce A “foot …… uponG1909 theG3588 sea,G2281
You see… This Word that the TRANSLATORS are CLAIMING is the Word for RIGHT HAND OF POWER
and IN THE RIGHT HAND OF THE SPIRIT ON THE THRONE. is SUDDENLY Referring to - The RIGHT FOOT.
and here
The RIGHT EYE. Mat 5:29 AndG1161 ifG1487 thyG4675 right G1188 eye G3788 offendG4624 thee,G4571
Mat 5:39 whosoeverG3748 shall smiteG4474 theeG4571 onG1909 thyG4675 right G1188 cheek,G4600
This Greek Word - Right = Dexios - Has nothing to do with the Hand.
Rev 1:16 AndG2532 he hadG2192 inG1722 hisG848 Right = Dexios Greek1188 δεξιός …. Hand = Cheir GREEK 5495 χείρ……… sevenG2033 stars:G792
The Manuscripts always tell You it is the Right Hand.
Mat 5:39 whosoeverG3748 shall smiteG4474 theeG4571 onG1909 thyG4675 right Right = Dexios - cheek,G4600
again - nothing to do with a Hand . The Translators go through The Bible Adding many things that are not there in the Original Greek And Hebrew.
The English KING JAMES BIBLE VERSON - Has Solidified the ENGLISH Language Gave us the TERM Right of Power. This is Christ.
The Term Right Hand of Power does not eXist in the Manuscripts. Christ is the Rightful Receiver of all Power and Glory of God. The Translators Simply wanted to follow a Catholic DOGMA and attribute the Holy Spirit as a Separate Person of the Trinity - With a Hand and separate body parts .
When in Fact Christ is the ARM of the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 53:1 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
John 12:38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?" Christ is the Arm, The Voice, The Hand and the Blood and eXpressed Image - of the Invisible Spirit of God. God - The Spirit - Made Flesh.
Before Yashoshua was born into the World, He eXisted in the bosom of The father.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Jesus is the Manifestation of the INVISIBLE Spirit of God. Not a Separate Person or Deity Of The Godhead. But He is 1. not Three.
The Trinitarian is both unwilling and unable to study or know the Greek manuscripts to begin the conversation in a basic knowledge of the truth.
This basic simple fact - that the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT Scriptures are contradictory and opposed to
the NEW MODERN TRANSLATIONS.
? Just take a look
.
From the very conception of the facts -
If The Trinitarian was intellectually honest
and looking to accurately study the scriptures, He would take the time and effort
to go back a verse and compare this previous verse here in Php 2:4
and see how it connects and relates to Php 2:5.
The Trinitarian is sadly defiant and both unwilling and mentally unable to study or know the basic Greek manuscripts to begin this task.
It is an insult to even consider the original manuscript comparison.
because the Catholic Trinitarian is a lover of His deception god.
The entire conversation is destroyed by a series of Modern Bible Translations through the ages that not only contradict the basic MANUSCRIPT TEXTs
But they pervert the original message and deform, contort, impair, mangle, blemish,
damage, deface, ruin and twist and warp and reshape the knowledge of the truth.
FACT - The ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT Scripture teXts are contradictory and are opposed to the NEW MODERN TRANSLATIONS.
----------
If The Trinitardian was intellectually honest and looking to accurately study the scriptures, He would take the time and effort to simply just go back a single verse and compare this previous verse here at Php 2:4 and 5
and see how it connects and relates to Php 2:5 - 6 - 7 and on. !
ONCE AGAIN - i have again done all of the work and taken all of the time to do all of this this, as the Lazy Roman Catholic Trinitardian is steaming and boiling in an emotional ego fit of a broilery meltdown and half baked one step Catholic Theological retreat, As He stomps and tramples His Bible shut beneath Him.
BUT Look - Here below me. - I have simply combined the joined and miXed the reading of The Php 2:4 and 5 - From All the combined connected modern TRINITRIAN TRANSLATIONS that eXist.
And I have compared the two verses 4 and 5 one at a time against the modern Original Manuscript teXts.
Php 2:4
MODERN TRINITARIAN TRANSLATIONS - = Php 2:4 Let each of you every man consider concern not only for regard for each his own [qualities] about fixing his attention on His own personal interests and looking out only for the things of themselves, but each of you take an interest in others, too.
ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT teXTs........ - = Php 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Now Lets look at Php 2:5
Php 2:5
MODERN TRINITARIAN TRANSLATIONS - = Php 2:5 In your relationships with one another, among yourselves, Let the same disposition be made, You must Make your own attitudes to have the same attitudes and same mindsets in you. And reason in your souls that same mindset which was also in Yeshua the Messiah Christ Jesus.
ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT teXTs........ - = Php 2:5 For think or regard this in yourselves who are also in Christ Jesus.
If We put the two Verses together - ( Verse 4 and 5 } Reading from the original manuscripts all that the simple basic manuscript teXt is saying is that we should not look only to our own things but look also on the things of others.
For think and regard this in yourselves who are also in Christ Jesus.
Thats it. End of the topic. The rest of the chapter is a new topic about the subject of Jesus Christ NOT A SUBJECT ABOUT THE TRINITY.
The Suject mentioned above was Yaahoshua Christ.
Yaahoshua The Anointed Who, was in the form / morph of God, thought it not robbery or seizing, taking (by force) to be or to eXist as equal to God.
But a vain, non-effect reputation. Himself, taking or receiving the form / morph of a servant. Was in the likeness of men:
The Roman Catholic Trinitarians purposely ran the two sentences together with the next verse 6, verse 6 and created
a trinity theory.
Php Chapter 2 verse 5 and verse 6 are not about the same subject. Verse 6 is about The ONE SINGLE Subject of Yaahoshuah Who is mentioned above that is ending with verse 5.
Verse 5 is not a part of verse 6 - But 6 is eXplaining a single Noun in the previous Verse. The Noun is Yahoshua not a Trinitarian Mind Set that is invented by mistranslating and misconscrewing the two verses in such a perverted incorrect ( ADDING ONTO THE TEXT MANOR } or way, to attempt to run them together and create a trinity perversion of confusion and ignorance.
When Php. Chapter 2 verse 5 and verse 6, are not the same subject or part of the same topic.
