CreateDebate


Debate Info

76
13
Was *not* a historical event *Was* a historical event
Debate Score:89
Arguments:40
Total Votes:96
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Was *not* a historical event (27)
 
 *Was* a historical event (13)

Debate Creator

DreadLaRaven(9) pic



The Great Flood of the Christian's bible

Was *not* a historical event

Side Score: 76
VS.

*Was* a historical event

Side Score: 13

This story is one of the reasons I move bibles to the fiction section whenever I can.

Here is a link to a humorous video that goes into this ridiculous story.

http://youtu.be/j_BzWUuZN5w

Side: Was *not* a historical event
3 points

Your video is absolutely hilarious. Good stuff.

Side: Was *not* a historical event
Srom(12206) Disputed
0 points

This video is not even funny. You just found something to make fun of that specific story. And that wouldnt happen at all.

Side: *Was* a historical event
4 points

Your arguments lack substance. You probably didnt enjoy it because it makes you beliefs look stupid. Which they are. Also, you can't make a claim about what may or may not have happened without any supportive argument. I have mine, do you? Besides that fiction of yours?

Side: Was *not* a historical event
5 points

I won't cite sources because... what's the point? If you believe in the tale of Noah's Ark, you won't believe in the sources that prove your story wrong.

So remembering shit from a mathematical philosophy class I took in Freshman year:

The size of Noah's Ark is impossible to make even with steel, but somehow Noah made it with gopher wood.

There isn't enough water to cover the highest mountains, at least, on this planet.

You can not fit 2 of every species of animal, even 6,000 years ago, onto a boat, unless that boat was the size of my dick OH SNAP!

this is more for people who don't really believe in Noah's Ark but needed some facts. If it troubles you, look them up. But it should be common sense, but I understand, I need to look shit up all the time.

Side: Was *not* a historical event
1 point

"You can not fit 2 of every species of animal, even 6,000 years ago, onto a boat, unless that boat was the size of my dick OH SNAP!"

- I lolled.

Side: Was *not* a historical event
4 points

Excuse me if I offend anyone, but let me be frank. I think it's somewhat embarrassing when a grown adult insists that this fantastical tale is true. Clearly some people cannot recognize an allegory when they see one or have been so indoctrinated by the church to think this story is possibly true. Even if you aren't familiar with the current understanding of anthropology or geology, the tale itself should present a few obvious logical problems to the reader.

EX: How do we have different species of frogs on 6 of the 7 continents, if Noah and company unloaded a pair of 2 frogs on only one continent? Am I to take it that Noah lived on Pangaea, that frogs can cross entire oceans, or that Noah waited until they evolved into different frog species before distributing them to the different continents like a time-traveling zoo-keeping delivery guy?

Side: Was *not* a historical event
Axmeister(4322) Disputed
1 point

"How do we have different species of frogs on 6 of the 7 continents, if Noah and company unloaded a pair of 2 frogs on only one continent?"

I'm sure you're aware that it all narrows down to DNA, and adaptation (please don't get this confused with evolution).

"Am I to take it that Noah lived on Pangaea, that frogs can cross entire oceans, "

Once again, you should be able have logically deduced that animals could have migrated over many generations. This could also have been aided by humans transporting animals.

I shall gladly take the example you've provided and replace it with some facts:

When cane toads were introduced, by humans, to Australia it took only 10 years for them to spread over a distance of 2000km, the current rate of spread is from 5 to 50km a year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toads_in_Australia

"or that Noah waited until they evolved into different frog species before distributing them to the different continents like a time-traveling zoo-keeping delivery guy?"

Your just mumbling tripe now.

Side: *Was* a historical event
ricedaragh(2494) Disputed
3 points

Once again, you should be able have logically deduced that animals could have migrated over many generations. This could also have been aided by humans transporting animals.

Seeing that Frog fossils have been found on their separate continents and are in the orders of hundreds of millions of years old, this point is moot, of course humans can introduce species, but this can only happen when humans exist. Also frogs can't survive in salt water making sea migration impossible so Bohemian is right, if Noah was to have let the frogs go on one continent it could not explain why they are where they are now.

Your just mumbling tripe now.

It was a joke I assume, used to highlight how silly the Noah's flood story is.

Side: Was *not* a historical event
Bohemian(3860) Disputed
3 points

I'm sure you're aware that it all narrows down to DNA, and adaptation (please don't get this confused with evolution).

Why because it is evolution, the difference being that adaption of this magnitude is not going to occur in only a few thousand years. There are over 5,000 different species of frogs. You do the math.

You're talking about evolution occurring at a rate millions of times faster than what is currently estimated. A new species of Frog every year and a half.

Once again, you should be able have logically deduced that animals could have migrated

And you should be able to logically deduce that frogs can't migrate over FUCKING OCEANS...are you serious?

The fairy tale you are trying to defend is so filled with holes, that the kind of rationalizations needed to make the story plausible are completely absurd.

This could also have been aided by humans transporting animals.

Again you are talking about intentionally transporting billions of animal species across multiple oceans. Bison and Grizzly to N.America, Marsupials to Australia, Horses to Europe, Elephants to Africa. Not to mention the millions of undiscovered islands dotting the world. The whole thing is absurd.

Side: Was *not* a historical event
4 points

If you're up for a laugh read this.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/caring-for-the-animals

This article is naivety or ignorance at it's best. We have currently named the bones of two million species, and that's only the tip of the iceberg, quite how all of these were placed in multiples on one boat, with enough food and water (among other things) is beyond me.

Side: Was *not* a historical event

Im going to give this side a point just for the hell of it. I find it hilarious that nobody of faith has come to try to defend their illogical belief. Perhaps deep inside they know that it is all bullshit.

Side: *Was* a historical event
1 point

The Great Flood explains nearly all the evidence for the world lasying for billions of years, to such a state that many scientists researching into this, have become christians.

There is also lots of evidence for the flood in cultural history, many religions have similar stories describing tan event similar to theat of the flood.

Recent scientific research shows that the whole "more layers means more time" theory is failse, the eruption of Mt St Helens volcanon proved the idea wrong.

Side: *Was* a historical event
imrigone(761) Disputed
2 points

The Great Flood explains nearly all the evidence for the world lasying for billions of years

Ummm, there is absolutely no evidence that the world was lazy for any great point in time, in fact all evidence stands against it.

to such a state that many scientists researching into this, have become christians.

Have any links supporting this? Care to name the actual "scientists"?

There is also lots of evidence for the flood in cultural history, many religions have similar stories describing tan event similar to theat of the flood.

Well, as far as the Fertile Crescent is concerned, there is indeed evidence of a massive flood, as well as numerous years of flood activity, in the whole area. Since most of the big Monotheisitic religions, and countless other fables, came from that area and were informed by that time, this is not exactly an earth-shattering revelation. "But wait," you might cry, "Some Native American, East Indian and African cultures also have flood myths!" Which is true. But A: they haven't all been dated at anywhere near a time when Noah's flood would have been relevant and B: Up until very recently, civilization was dependent on either rivers or coasts. And Guess What!! Rivers and coasts flood from time to time!

Recent scientific research shows that the whole "more layers means more time" theory is failse, the eruption of Mt St Helens volcanon proved the idea wrong.

You don't know the first thing about geology, do you? Long before Mt. St. Helen's exploded, we knew about stratovolcanoes and the world around them. Any first year geology student can identify them by sight. More importantly, any given layer can usually be tested. Stratigraphy has never been an absolute dating tool.

Side: Was *not* a historical event
ricedaragh(2494) Disputed
1 point

The Great Flood explains nearly all the evidence for the world lasying for billions of years

What exactly does this mean?

to such a state that many scientists researching into this, have become christians.

I'm sure they were very serious scientists to begin with.

There is also lots of evidence for the flood in cultural history, many religions have similar stories describing tan event similar to theat of the flood.

What does this prove?

Recent scientific research shows that the whole "more layers means more time" theory is failse, the eruption of Mt St Helens volcanon proved the idea wrong.

Which research are you speaking of, are you stating that the geological record is not evidence for the age of the Earth, please clarify this.

Side: Was *not* a historical event
Axmeister(4322) Disputed
1 point

"What exactly does this mean?"

I'm so sorry, I meant to say lasting (I don't know why I didn't bother to spell check afterwrads)

"What does this prove?"

That it wasn't just made up by some madman in Isreal if the Buddhists have a very similar story.

"Which research are you speaking of, are you stating that the geological record is not evidence for the age of the Earth, please clarify this."

Before Mt Helen's volcano erupted scientists assumed that layers of rock must have been caused by the slow build up of land, then scienists noticed that the volcanic eruption created several extra layers in the surrounduing area, proving that layers could have been created in a short amount of time.

Side: *Was* a historical event
1 point
Side: they found the ark
Bohemian(3860) Disputed
3 points

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubaid_period

Strange seeing as how the Mesopotamian people went about their business as usual, untouched by any global flood. Had there of been a global flood, they would have been wiped out, but they weren't.

Side: Was *not* a historical event
imrigone(761) Disputed
2 points

Umm, what they found was several large enclosures that dated back to the "approximate" time. They never claimed that any of the structure was seaworthy. Indeed, the people on the expedition admitted that the wood working was not similar to boat craftsmanship known from that era. So they claim that maybe the structures were reconstituted from the original boat. Which, of course, cannot be proved. Ever hear of confirmation bias? Also, this is about the 30-40th time that Noah's arc has been "found" in the last century. How do we prove that one is more likely than the other?

Side: Was *not* a historical event
1 point

Many other cultures and religions have similar stories dictating the Great Flood.

Africa

Southwest Tanzania

Once upon a time the rivers began to flood. The god told two people to get into a ship. He told them to take lots of seed and to take lots of animals. The water of the flood eventually covered the mountains. Finally the flood stopped. Then one of the men, wanting to know if the water had dried up let a dove loose. The dove returned. Later he let loose a hawk which did not return. Then the men left the boat and took the animals and the seeds with them.

Asia

China

The Chinese classic called the Hihking tells about "the family of Fuhi," that was saved from a great flood. This ancient story tells that the entire land was flooded; the mountains and everything, however one family survived in a boat. The Chinese consider this man the father of their civilization. This record indicates that Fuhi, his wife, three sons, and three daughters were the only people that escaped the great flood. It is claimed, that he and his family were the only people alive on earth, and repopulated the world.

Babylon

Gilgamesh met an old man named Utnapishtim, who told him the following story. The gods came to Utnapishtim to warn him about a terrible flood that was coming. They instructed Utnapishtim to destroy his house and build a large ship. The ship was to be 10 dozen cubits high, wide and long. Utnapishtim was to cover the ship with pitch. He was supposed to take male and female animals of all kinds, his wife and family, provisions, etc. into the ship. Once ship was completed the rain began falling intensely. The rain fell for six days and nights. Finally things calmed and the ship settled on the top of Mount Nisir. After the ship had rested for seven days Utnapishtim let loose a dove. Since the land had not dried the dove returned. Next he sent a swallow which also returned. Later he let loose a raven which never returned since the ground had dried. Utnapishtim then left the ship.

Chaldean

There was a man by the name of Xisuthrus. The god Chronos warned Xisuthrus of a coming flood and told him to build a boat. The boat was to be 5 stadia by 2 stadia. In this boat Xisuthrus was to put his family, friends and two of each animal (male and female). The flood came. When the waters started to recede he let some birds loose. They came back and he noticed they had mud on their feet. He tried again with the same results. When he tried the third time the birds did not return. Assuming the water had dried up the people got out of the boat and offered sacrifices to the gods.

India

A long time ago lived a man named Manu. Manu, while washing himself, saved a small fish from the jaws of a large fish. The fish told Manu, "If you care for me until I am full grown I will save you from terrible things to come". Manu asked what kind of terrible things. The fish told Manu that a great flood would soon come and destroy everything on the earth. The fish told Manu to put him in a clay jar for protection. The fish grew and each time he outgrew the clay jar Manu gave him a larger one. Finally the fish became a ghasha, one of the largest fish in the world. The fish instructed Manu to build a large ship since the flood was going to happen very soon. As the rains started Manu tied a rope from the ship to the ghasha. The fish guided the ship as the waters rose. The whole earth was covered by water. When the waters began subsiding the ghasha led Manu's ship to a mountaintop.

Australia

There is a legend of a flood called the Dreamtime flood. Riding on this flood was the woramba, or the Ark Gumana. In this ark was Noah, Aborigines, and various animals. This ark eventually came to rest in the plain of Djilinbadu where it can still be found. They claim that the white mans story about the ark landing in the middle east is a lie that was started to keep the aborigines in subservience. This legend is undoubtedly the product of aboriginal legends merging with those of visiting missionaries, and there does not appear to be any native flood stories from Australia.

Europe

Greece

A long time ago, perhaps before the golden age was over, humans became proud. This bothered Zeus as they kept getting worse. Finally Zeus decided that he would destroy all humans. Before he did this Prometheus, the creator of humans, warned his human son Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha. Prometheus then placed this couple in a large wooden chest. The rains started and lasted nine days and nights until the whole world was flooded. The only thing that was not flooded was the peaks of Mount Parnassus and Mount Olympus. Mount Olympus is the home of the gods. The wooden chest came to rest on Mount Parnassus. Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha got out and saw that everything was flooded. They lived on provisions from the chest until the waters subsided. At Zeus' instruction they re-populated the earth.

North America

Mexico

The Toltec natives have a legend telling that the original creation lasted for 1716 years, and was destroyed by a flood and only one family survived.

Aztec- A man named Tapi lived a long time ago. Tapi was a very pious man. The creator told Tapi to build a boat that he would live in. He was told that he should take his wife, a pair of every animal that was alive into this boat. Naturally everyone thought he was crazy. Then the rain started and the flood came. The men and animals tried to climb the mountains but the mountains became flooded as well. Finally the rain ended. Tapi decided that the water had dried up when he let a dove loose that did not return.

United States

The Ojibwe natives who have lived in Minnesota USA since approximately 1400AD also have a creation and flood story that closely parallels the Biblical account. "There came a time when the harmonious way of life did not continue. Men and women disrespected each other, families quarreled and soon villages began arguing back and forth. This saddened Gitchie Manido [the Creator] greatly, but he waited. Finally, when it seemed there was no hope left, Creator decided to purify Mother Earth through the use of water. The water came, flooding the Earth, catching all of creation off guard. All but a few of each living thing survived." Then it tells how Waynaboozhoo survived by floating on a log in the water with various animals.

Ojibwe - Ancient native American creation story tells of world wide flood.

Delaware Indians - In the pristine age, the world lived at peace; but an evil spirit came and caused a great flood. The earth was submerged. A few persons had taken refuge on the back of a turtle, so old that his shell had collected moss. A loon flew over their heads and was entreated to dive beneath the water and bring up land. It found only a bottomless sea. Then the bird flew far away, came back with a small portion of earth in its bill, and guided the tortoise to a place where there was a spot of dry land.

South America

Inca

During the period of time called the Pachachama people became very evil. They got so busy coming up with and performing evil deeds they neglected the gods. Only those in the high Andes remained uncorrupted. Two brothers who lived in the highlands noticed their llamas acting strangely. They asked the llamas why and were told that the stars had told the llamas that a great flood was coming. This flood would destroy all the life on earth. The brothers took their families and flocks into a cave on the high mountains. It started to rain and continued for four months. As the water rose the mountain grew keeping its top above the water. Eventually the rain stopped and the waters receded. The mountain returned to its original height. The shepherds repopulated the earth. The llamas remembered the flood and that is why they prefer to live in the highland areas.

Side: *Was* a historical event
Bohemian(3860) Disputed
2 points

Some anthropologists have suggested that flood myths from around the world may have their basis in torrential melting at the end of the last glacial period. The melt waters would have flooded low-lying areas across the globe, and to the people of the time would have seemed like the result of an angry God. This would have occurred long before the invention of writing, so this event would have been passed on orally and over time would have been embellished and certain fictional elements may have been added over time resulting in the plethora of flood myths we have today.

Side: Was *not* a historical event
Axmeister(4322) Disputed
1 point

You still cannot deny that a global flood happened, yes it may have not covered the whole Earth, but many people would have died.

Side: *Was* a historical event
ricedaragh(2494) Disputed
1 point

Given that man is one single species, is it not evident from these stories from civilizations that pre-date the bible that this is simply a myth, a nice story and a handy allegory, a lot of the Bible is borrowed.

Side: Was *not* a historical event
Axmeister(4322) Disputed
1 point

Then you cannot deny it wasn't a historical event, if everyone who was around at the time agrees with it.

Side: *Was* a historical event
0 points

It is because the atmosphere was diffrent from todays. If you broke a leg in the atmosphere it would heal in 5 days but when the flood came you would if you broke a leg than it would take 2 weeks to heal. Plus it is a fact that this happened because if someone God inspired Moses to write the book of Genenis and about the Flood than it is true. Plus after the flood God promised Noah that He would make a promise to him that He would never flood the whole earth again or hurt any animals again. Therefore God has kept his promise and there hasnt been a flood ever since.

Side: *Was* a historical event
Conro(767) Disputed
5 points

You do realize you are saying, "The Bible is true because the Bible says so," right?

Side: Was *not* a historical event
Srom(12206) Disputed
0 points

No I know its true. It says when each book of the bible was written.

Side: *Was* a historical event
imrigone(761) Disputed
4 points

It is because the atmosphere was diffrent from todays. If you broke a leg in the atmosphere it would heal in 5 days but when the flood came you would if you broke a leg than it would take 2 weeks to heal.

Let's just ignore the fact, for the sake of argument, that pockets of atmosphere from AND preceding that time by several thousand years have been found and analyzed. Lets try REALLY HARD to ignore that. Now tell me why a change in atmosphere would have such a drastic effect on our ability to heal.

And while we are at it, please tell me what this has to do with Noah's Arc?!?!?

Plus it is a fact that this happened because if someone God inspired Moses to write the book of Genenis and about the Flood than it is true.

I am writing a screenplay that was inspired by my friends. If it were ever to be made into a movie, should anyone ever count every word of it as true? I mean, some of it was, indeed inspired by real events, but these characters are NOT the people I based them on and the events are most deffinitly exaggerated. And GUESS WHAT? People have been muddling with reality in fictional form since before recorded history! It is only reletively recently that we actually TRY to pass it off as fiction.

Therefore God has kept his promise and there hasnt been a flood ever since.

There have been thousands of recorded floods since then. Not any GLOBAL floods, granted. But then, there isn't anywhere near enough water on the Earth to do that, otherwise we would still be flooded, or it would be vastly more humid than it already is!

Side: Was *not* a historical event
ricedaragh(2494) Disputed
1 point

It is because the atmosphere was diffrent from todays.

How?

If you broke a leg in the atmosphere it would heal in 5 days but when the flood came you would if you broke a leg than it would take 2 weeks to heal.

Quite specific, care to share the source of this knowledge.

Plus it is a fact that this happened because if someone God inspired Moses to write the book of Genenis and about the Flood than it is true.

Seriously?

Plus after the flood God promised Noah that He would make a promise to him that He would never flood the whole earth again or hurt any animals again.

So God only promised that he would one day promise. Is that what you are stating?

He may not have flooded the whole Earth again but he has certainly sent a whole plethora of horrible "natural" disasters and hurt many animals including man.

Side: Was *not* a historical event