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16
23
Too dangerous (dove) To war! (hawk)
Debate Score:39
Arguments:42
Total Votes:52
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 Too dangerous (dove) (14)
 
 To war! (hawk) (15)

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TERMINATOR(6778) pic



The MSM Has Become Dangerously Anti-China

While Russia gets most of the attention on the news when it comes to our perceived enemies, China and Iran come in at a close second and third. Every day, I see more and more headlines condemning China for this and that. I say it's nonsense. 

Take Hong Kong. I will not speak to the legitimacy of the motivation for protest, for it seems rather nebulous just what they wish to achieve. There are reports of people being killed in protests in Chile by security forces, as well as hundreds of deaths total in protests in Iraq; Bolivian protests have seen 32 deaths total, according to Wikipedia, while three protesters and three security forces have been killed in protests in Iran. Hong Kong's been going on for almost half a year, and the police have yet to kill anybody (though there may be something fishy about the boy who fell from the third floor during a police operation). The protesters have been quite violent and incredibly destructive, yet watching the videos of the police encounters on BBC is almost startling in the restraint the security forces have shown. Most American media I've read or watched that mentioned the pro-Chinese man being set on fire by protesters merely glossed over it. 

Why does Hong Kong get orders of magnitude more coverage than the far more violent incidents in other nations, with no opportunity let by to condemn China in the strongest of terms, while the coverage of the other incidents is generally more fact-based, cold, disinterested? 

Whether or not one supports China, which I don't imagine many people on here do, surely one can see, given America's shoddy record in the last few decades of war, that it is in nobody's interest to magnify and exaggerate the threat posed by China. 

Too dangerous (dove)

Side Score: 16
VS.

To war! (hawk)

Side Score: 23

I concur and would like to take you out for a beverage so we can discuss this matter in more detail.

Side: Too dangerous (dove)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-concentrationcamps/china-putting-minority-muslims-in-concentration-camps-us-says-idUSKCN1S925K

Of all the things to defend in this world, China's track record is not one of them. What are your reasons to be so concerned over China's reputation?

Side: To war! (hawk)
1 point

I totally agree with you on this. China is a tyrannical hellhole that treats its people and animals like absolute shit.

Side: To war! (hawk)
TERMINATOR(6778) Disputed
1 point

Says who? American media?

China is one of the safest countries in the world, with a homicide rate of 0.62 per 100,000 people according to the UN numbers for 2016. America's rate was 5.35.

China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of extreme poverty in the last few years and plans on eliminating extreme poverty entirely by the early 2020s.

America has as many surveillance cameras as China, despite having a billion fewer people. This to preempt accusations that they're a surveillance state (which they probably are, but it should be seen in a comparative perspective lest we judge more harshly than is warranted).

The Western world is content with their fantasies that China is nothing but a hellish totalitarian dystopia. But is it true? We only hear the bad stories. When every single action is viewed through a lens of bigotry, fear, and with an expectation of utter inhumanity, then we are prone to taking moderately negative or even neutral developments as the pinnacle of evil.

Side: Too dangerous (dove)
TERMINATOR(6778) Disputed
0 points

You seem to misunderstand my argument, as seems to be the case every single time I have ever discussed this with anybody.

I am not defending China.

I'm saying it's idiotic to be demonizing China as rabidly as we are.

Side: Too dangerous (dove)
FromWithin(8239) Clarified
1 point

If they are indeed holding Muslims against their will in order to condition them to deny their religion, that is a very bad thing.

China had a one child only policy which included forced abortions.

https://www.npr.org/2016/02/01/465124337/how-chinas-one-child-policy-led-to-forced-abortions-30-million-bachelors

Until China has better human rights, they deserve their reputation. I'm not saying they are the worst nation on Earth. I'm saying they are a dictatorship denying human rights.

Side: Too dangerous (dove)
SunTzuv2(53) Disputed
1 point

Why don't you go and live in China, see what the human rights, animal rights and environment protection is like there? Then come back and tell me you want to defend it in any shape of form.

Side: To war! (hawk)
BurritoLunch(3392) Clarified
1 point

I'm saying it's idiotic to be demonizing China as rabidly as we are.

The hyper-capitalism of the United States doesn't work unless there is an enemy to distract people away from the fact they are little more than slaves. Either a slave to the clock or a slave to the dollar.

Side: Too dangerous (dove)
FromWithin(8239) Disputed
0 points

You seem to misunderstand my argument, as seems to be the case every single time I have ever discussed this with anybody.

I am not defending ISIS.

I'm saying it's idiotic to be demonizing ISIS as rabidly as we are.

That about sums up this waste of time debate.

Side: To war! (hawk)
1 point

The Little David'' which is Hong Kong is fighting for its freedom from the big bad Goliath as represented by the repressive, totalitarian state of the Republic of China.

Your post sounds suspiciously like a subtle form of fake news as the aspirations of the Hong Kong protesters is common knowledge throughout the world and has been for months. The people of Hong Kong enjoyed all the freedoms and benefits of Democracy which we in the west take for granted, ( like making this point openly and without fear of a knock on the door) and they want a return to that form of government.

China's communist regime has an ambitious expansionist agenda which was only curtailed by the robust stand adopted by President Trump.

China's appropriation of territories which hitherto were sovereign states such as Tibet and the seizure of vessels which were in international waters but claimed by China have made their neighbours such as Japan, South Korea and The Philippines very nervous and has seen these nations increasing their defense capabilities.

The threats to the freedoms enjoyed by the Democratic nations of the Free World are under definite threat mainly from Russia, China.

Which of these despotic regimes represents the greater danger to our way of life is, at this point, difficult to call.

Side: To war! (hawk)
TERMINATOR(6778) Disputed
1 point

At first they said they want the extradition bill to be tossed. That happened. They weren't happy.

Wikipedia has a list of five other demands they've made. I've watched a lot of videos from various news sources - none Chinese, other than SCMP - and the thing that seems to be uniting them is a common sense of frustration against China. How can that end? Have China step back and give Hong Kong independence? What do they actually want to see? I've read dozens of articles and watched many hours of video, but I'm not entirely clear what solid aims they have other than to voice their discontent as much as possible.

I hear so many anti-China people calling China "expansionist". What justification do you have for that? It is strutted about as if it is just plain obvious, everybody wants to conquer the world. That seems to me to be a very Western mentality, one which I've not seen reflected in any of the Chinese history or literature I've read.

But at the end of the day, discussing whether or not China is worthy of condemnation is not what I'm interested in here. My issue is whether or not it is wise to continue provoking one of the most powerful countries on earth with a never-ending onslaught of extremely one-sided claims, some false, some true, seemingly designed to create popular hostility against them to the point where war could easily become palatable to the broader public. This especially given that America can't even win a war against Afghanistan or Iraq, small, powerless third-world countries.

Side: Too dangerous (dove)
Saltal(196) Disputed
1 point

You're selfishly expecting the Hong Kong people to accept a life of standard communist repression and state control over their lives and the lives of all future generations.

These people have experienced the freedom which is an integral part of a democratic society and they're struggling, ( in vain I fear ) to retain their lost way of life.

If you do not know of China's expansionism then you must have been living on the moon, or maybe even Pluto for the past 30 years or more.

It is a congenital characteristic of the human psyche' to be free to follow their heart and pursue their dreams.

It was this free spirit that spawned the pioneers and entrepreneurs that made America the greatest nation on earth.

People the world over will always strive for freedom of political and religion expression and it is wholly wrong of you to expect people to lie down and roll over so their masters can stamp their Jack-Boot on their throats.

Side: To war! (hawk)

I think China is our biggest existential threat, more so than Russia. China threatens not only on the military front, but they also are becoming an economic juggernaut that has prospered at our expense via corporate espionage and stealing our technology and ignoring patents.

Side: To war! (hawk)
2 points

I think China is our biggest existential threat, more so than Russia.

Existential? You laughably paranoid idiot. People like you are the reason wars start.

Side: Too dangerous (dove)
1 point

You wart on society's ass; you are nothing but wasted space producing noxious fumes with every breath.

Side: To war! (hawk)
Saltal(196) Clarified
0 points

Although they're still up to their tricks the game is up for China on the industrial espionage front.

President Trump has 'called time on the ridiculous negative imbalance of trade with China and this has had an impact on the hitherto seemingly unstoppable upward trend of their economic performance.

In this trade war the U.S., economy will suffer a little in the short term but it will be China which will bear the greater economic agony both short and long term.

Side: Too dangerous (dove)
BurritoLunch(3392) Clarified
1 point

In this trade war the U.S., economy will suffer a little in the short term but it will be China which will bear the greater economic agony both short and long term.

You are delusional. It's amazing to actually meet people who think America is going to remain the strongest economic force on Earth forever. I'm tempted to inquire how you rectify that viewpoint with the facts of history, but I'm fairly confident you either ignore history or make up your own version of it anyway.

Side: Too dangerous (dove)

War is a time honored tradition going back thousands of years. If 2 groups can't find common ground, then they duke it out. Winner takes all. Why change now? ;)

Side: To war! (hawk)