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Debate Score:44
Total Votes:47
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 The Morality of Of Mice and Men (44)

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ottoteach(17) pic

The Morality of Of Mice and Men

Answer the following questions as completely as you can -- refer to the expectations of the debate before you answer!

1. How should society deal with the elderly and those living with challenges - physical or mental? Is what society does now effective? Why or          why not?
2. Is George justified in killing Lennie?  Why or why not? Should mercy killing be morally acceptable or not? Why or why not?
3. Did George truly love Lennie or was he simply obligated to care for him? What has helped to determine your answer?
4. How is the end of the novel similar or different from the beginning of Chapter 1? - Please note that they take place in the same setting.

After you have answered all four of the following questions, respond to two of your classmates.  Please provide your classmates with meaningful responses and refer to the expectations of the debate before you respond to your classmates!
Add New Argument
2 points

1. Society should deal with the elderly or the challenged in a way that does not make them feel out of place or like they are challenged. These people should be accepted for who they are, it is not their fault that they might be different.

2. I think he is because he did it for Lennie's good. If George would not have killed Lennie, the other men would have made him suffer. I believe that in a situation like this, where there was nothing else that could be better for Lennie, the way George killed Lennie was acceptable.

3. At first I believe that George was simply just taking care of him, but as he began to see him as a real person and spent more time with him, he really did love him.

4. At the end of the book, George knew what he was going to do, and he knew that it would be better for Lennie, but at the beginning of the book, I don't believe that George would have imagined that they would be in that situation. They were both in the same place, but it almost seemed as if it was a different setting because the feelings and the actions that were going on were so different.

1 point

I agree with all of it because for question 1 society should do those things.

1 point

1. As they deal with them now, I think yes but there could be drawbacks I don't see.

2. Yes, George killed Lennie quickly and if Curly got to Lennie first then Lennie would have suffered. No, it should not be.

3. George truly loved Lennie like a brother George could have left any time he wanted to but he stayed.

4. They are similar because they are both at the river, talk about the farm, and the rabbits.

1 point

I support this because it shows human ways to deal with the elderly, mentally disabled, and physically disabled.

1 point

Mitchell is right. People shouldnt be treated differently

1 point

1-People that are old or not very bright need to be treated, what we do now is not very effective, because people that aren't bright still don't get what they need

2-George is justified in killing Lennie because if George hadn't done it Lennie was going to be put through torture by Curley in the book it is acceptable but not in real life

3-George really loves him, when Lennie said he could go off into the hills George wouldn't let him

4- Lennie had done a bad thing, and they were at the river

ottoteach(17) Clarified
1 point

I agree. Your answers are clear and I agree with you. Your argument is precise and I like it.

mhewitt2024(3) Disputed
1 point

I agree you show reasons why George cared about Lennie and did what he had to do.

tschable2024(3) Disputed
1 point

I agree with this because George really did love Lennie and he could have left any other time but he never did.

1 point

(1)People living with challenges, need to have a bit more help, if their challenges affect the things they think, do, or consider. People that are elderly, also need a little slack put on them, elderly people can't do what they used to do when they were a young adult, or a teenager. (2)George is justified in killing Lennie, it was for the BEST cause. Curley would have killed Lennie by tourturing him. Lennie would've had a horrible death, Curley would have beaten and tortured Lennie to death. George did a good thing for Lennie. Mercy killing shouldn't be legal. So many murders could get off by faking a mercy kill. (3) George did truly love Lennie. I know George loved Lennie by the way he cared for him, and cried at the end of the movie. (4) The mouse and Lennie are both dead. each begins with a setting that is described in the same way.

tschable2024(3) Disputed
1 point

I agree with this because George did kill Lennie but it was for the best. George didn't want Lennie to die in a miserable way.

1 point

1. Society should fit the people in it. Physical and mental challenges are not a person's fault, so there should be ways to help them. How everything is right now is effective, but I still believe we have a bit more progress to go.

2. I think George was justified in killing Lennie. Although Lennie hadn't done anything on purpose, he would still be treated by the world around him as if he did. If it took place now, it wouldn't be acceptable because the world now is more accepting, if that makes sense.

3. George truly did care for Lennie. If he didn't, he would have just let someone else kill him or lock him up, and wouldn't have been so nice to him before he killed Lennie.

4. The beginning and end chapters of the book both start with Lennie drinking the water in the same setting.

1 point

I support this because society should try and make everyone feel the same. Also, George is justified because he did it out of love and respect towards Lennie. Geroge did love Lennie and there are many things that show this.

ottoteach(17) Clarified
1 point

Correct. I like your response and I think it is clarified enough. COrrectTT

1 point

1. They should deal with them both physically and mentally. Society does mostly physical treatment in things such as nursing homes because they try to keep the elderly alive for longer times instead of being happy. This is effective in keeping the population up but it does not increase the morality of the elderly in nursing homes and such because many of them miss family members or aren't happy sitting in the nursing home.

2. George is justified in killing Lennie because he saved him from all the pain that Curley would have given him because Curley planed on making Lennies death painful and torture. Mercy killing should be acceptable because it's better to end somebody's life peacefully and without pain, than to let them suffer for a couple more months or years.

3. George truly loved Lennie. You can tell this because of the scene at the end of the book where George was forced to kill Lennie. He didn't want Lennie to suffer and he even hesitated to kill him and contemplated doing it. You could also tell because he started to cry at the end of the book because he knows that he just lost his best friend.

4. The end of the novel and movie are both very similar because, they take place at the same spot and for the same reason, George told Lennie to look out at the river before telling him the story about the farm and shooting him, and Curley and him men are coming to hurt Lennie. There were not very many differences but a big one was where in the movie, George didn't hold the gun to the back of Lennie's head and he instead just brought it up and shot him quickly. Another big difference was that Slim didn't show up after George killed Lennie in the movie.

1 point

Society should make sure the elderly are all taken care of and the same goes for people that live with challenges. I think our society takes good care of the elderly and people that are mentally or physically challenged. They provide nursing homes, assisted livings, nurses, and health care providers to go to their houses and give them the help they need, loans, money for those who don't have much to support their kids, and schooling. Yes, George should have killed Lennie because he knew that he was going to die one way or another and if Curley were to kill him he would have made him suffer, but George let him go in peace. Mercy killing should not be acceptable because there is always another solution other than dying, but in this case, the best decision to make was for George to kill Lennie. George did truly love Lennie because he felt guilty for bullying him long ago and sees him as his family. They always say that they always have each other and when George had to kill Lennie it broke him. They were both in the same spot and Lennie was imagining his Aunt Clara and the big rabbit. George let Lennie go in peace in both of them and shot him in the back of the head.

1 point

1. In society, people should deal with those living with mental or physical challenges depending on how much they struggle with life. If a person or persons has a physical or mental disability and struggles living or doing things right in society, they should be put somewhere like a rehab center where they can be helped to actually enjoy their life. What society does now, can be effective on certain people but not on all people. Right now, it is a relative's choice or their choice sometimes whether or not they should be taken care of, and that isn't always the right thing. This could make their lives harder and not as enjoyable as they could be.

2. George is justified for killing Lennie for a couple of reasons. For starters, Lennie is an adult that could more than likely not make it on his own, and George is aware of this. Lennie committed a bad crime, and back then the circumstances were different from what they would be now. Back then, Curley or any one of the workers could have told them Lennie had a weapon and made him suffer in his life. I believe that mercy killing should be morally acceptable. If a person is struggling that much with their own life and it is obvious to those that know and have been around them, then mercy killing should be morally acceptable. Sometimes it is better to let somebody go in your life, rather than make them suffer and struggle forever just to be with them.

3. I believe that George really did love Lennie like he was his own family. I think this is true because George simply killed Lennie out of mercy. George might have felt obligated to take care of Lennie, but over time he began to see more and more that it was nice to have him around, and that he actually cared for him. At the end of the book, you could also tell that it was hard for George to shoot Lennie. If George wouldn't have cared for Lennie at all, then he wouldn't have had the hesitation.

4. I believe that the end of the novel is similar to the beginning of Chapter 1 because of the way that George and Lennie are explaining how they are going to have their dream lives someday. They both end in the way of how amazing their lives someday are going to be, and I believe it is to show how important the dream was to them.

1 point

1. I think that society should treat the physically and mentally challenged the same, but also in a manner that they can deal with. Such as if you are physically unable to do something that someone else can, then make work with something similar. If you are mentally challenged then it is a little bit harder to do certain things that others can do mentally but it doesn't mean that you can't do the same things physically. Today in society I think that people aren't getting equal treatments for the physically and mentally challenged but it's not all in a bad way. There are certain things that are okay but other things single out those people. I think society needs to better normalize physically and mentally challenged people. These people are still human beings, they shouldn't be treated like anything different. They need to be taken care of, not treated differently.

2. I don't think that George is justified by killing Lennie, but I feel like George is the person that should kill him over someone that just wants to kill him over pure hatred. George did it because Lennie had killed someone else and back then, the things you would do for that are a lot different than they are now. Curley just wanted to kill Lennie out of hate because he had just killed his wife.

3. I think that George actually loved Lennie. He might have felt like he was obligated to take care of him but through everything, I think he actually loved him. I think this because George never had to actually stick with him but he did and he stuck up for him in every problem that Lennie caused. George is a good man and did everything to keep Lennie as safe as possible while still doing the right thing.

4. The first chapter and then end of the book are similar I think because they both portray the same concept. At the beginning of the book in chapter one George and Lennie are in the irrigation ditch and they are talking about their dream of the farm and tending the rabbits. They are talking about their dream of the future and their hopes. Then at the end of the book, they are back in the same irrigation ditch talking about their dreams of the farm and rabbits. But this time they know that this will never actually happen. It was always very far out of their reach but they still had hope that it could happen.

1 point

1. Society should help people with mental and physical disabilities. People that have those disabilities get some help from other people and groups, but society could do a better job of excepting people with those disabilities.

2. George is not happy that he had to kill Lennie, he felt as if he had to. Mercy killing should not be acceptable, the person that needs help should be able to go get help and not have to be shot and killed.

3. George was obligated to care for Lennie when his Aunt Clara died, but then George became to love Lennie. George at first played tricks on Lennie, but he stopped because he loved him and he was very sad when he had to kill him.

4. They were both in the same spot, and George was telling his and Lennie's dream. George also was very depressed, and Lennie was running from some people that were trying to kill him.

1 point

1. To help society deal with the elderly now to make their ways even better than they already are, they can better their nursing homes and add more things into them. This will make the mental health of the elders much better, and it would also improve their moods. What society does now for the elderly, is effective in some ways, but could also have a few changes for the better. Our society has nursing homes for the elderly, which take great care of the elders and make sure they are satisfied. After being at the nursing homes for such a long time, people get bored and don't have much to do anymore. By adding more things to the nursing home, the elders will have more things to do and will increase their physical and mental health. The same thing could go for the people getting help mentally.

2. Yes, George has a justified reason to kill Lennie. George was tired of Lennie making stupid mistakes and was tired of having to clean up after his mistakes, so George did what was better for the both of them and shot Lennie. If George wouldn't have shot Lennie, he would've gotten tortured by Curley and would've suffered a lot more than he did when George shot him. In my opinion, I think mercy killing should be more acceptable because they're not doing it out of violence, they're doing it out of generosity so that they wouldn't have to suffer.

3. I believe that at first, George felt obligated to like Lennie, but towards the end, I think George was starting to love him more. George at the beginning of the book when he would trick Lennie into doing things for his own enjoyment, but he started to learn that it wasn't right to do that, and I think after he did that, he started to love Lennie more, which helped me determine my answer.

4. They are both starting at the farm when they run down to the river, and they talk about the farm and the rabbits.

1 point

We should treat them as if they are one of us. Which they are. Just because someone talks different, looks different, or thinks different, does not give a person to treat them as if they are different. And unfortuantly. Our society doesn't see that.

1 point

He did it for the right cause. Though it is still illegal. He had killed for a good cause, to save his friend the torture of Curley.

1 point

1. They should be treated, even though they may not understand it.

2. Yes, George killed Lennie because he wanted Lennie to die in a peaceful way. No, it should not be acceptable.

3. George really did love Lennie, George told Lennie that he had never been mad at Lennie before and George never left Lennie even if he had a chance.

4. Lennie had done a bad thing in Weed so they had to get out of trouble in the beginning, in the end, Lennie had done something bad near Soledad so they had to get out of trouble.

1 point

I agree that George had to kill Lennie in order for him to die in a peaceful way.

1 point

i can agree with Jasmine. It was ALMOST nessecary if George didnt want Curly to kill Lennie.

1 point

I agree Geroge did love Lennie, and how u support your answer make it more clear how George loves Lennie

1 point

1. I think society needs to help out the elderly more, mentally and physically. What we are doing right now is somewhat effective, but not good enough.

2. I think it was he right choice. George wanted to kill him before Curley could, because he believed that was the right thing to do

3. I think he truly loved Lennie, he didn't have to take care of him and watch over him all of the time but he chose to.

4. It was much different because in chapter 1 they were working together to get away from Weed, but at the end, George kills Lennie which was very unexpected from the beginning.

tgilbert(2) Disputed
1 point

I feel like we do a good job with mentally challenged people because in school we have aids that help them with their school work and there are people out there that can help and treat people with mental challenges.

1 point

I agree that society doesn't treat the elderly the best way they could.

1 point

I agree because there are still a lot of people who don't get the help they need. And I agree that George really did love Lennie and he killed him for his own good. If George would not have killed Lennie, he would have had to suffer if the other men got to him first.

1 point

1. Society today does a good job of handling the physical and mental challenges of people. We do a good job today because we can give help to people that have mental challenges by having aids at schools and with physical challenges, we can 3-D print prosthetic body parts and have more advanced surgeons today.

2. Yes, because George knew that if Lennie was to get shot, it would have been brutal and Lennie would have suffered. Mercy Killing should be acceptable because if people know that a person is suffering or will suffer from a shot, they can put them out of their misery.

3. George did love Lennie because in the movie he had a hard time getting the courage to shoot Lennie.

4. It is similar because they are by the Soledad River, George tells Lennie about their dream and they are by the bush. It is different because George had to kill Lennie at the end of the chapter.

1 point

I agree that he wasn't gonna shoot him but he finally had to help him and shoot.

jasminegrime(3) Disputed
0 points

I disagree, the elderly are very often disrespected and not put in the proper care that they should be in.

1 point

1. Society should deal with the elderly the same way they would deal with children. Some ways that society treats them now is effective.

2. Yes, because if George didn't kill Lennie someone else would have and they would have done it brutally, whereas George did it where Lennie wouldn't feel any pain.

3. I feel like at first, he was just doing it to help out his family, but then George actually started loving Lennie as a brother and that they've created a special bond. The whole book helped me determine my answer.

4. The end of the novel is different from the beginning of chapter 1 because at the end of the novel Lennie got shot in the brush.

1 point

1. If a person are mentally ill should be treated, but they don't get treated. 2. Yes, because if Curley killed Lennie he would've of suffered but George did it; it should be acceptable in the book but not in real life. 3. I think that George truly loved Lennie because they talked about getting a ranch together. 4. They are similar because Lennie left Weeds because he did a bad thing and at the end he did a bad thing, but then it can be different because Lennie ran from Weeds but at the end when he killed Curley's wife he ran but ended up getting shot.

1 point

I think he was truly Lennie's friend. He did take because his Aunt wanted him too, true. But he needed a friend. And George was that friend.

1 point

Agree, George had a hard time killing Lennie. George had to kill him to save his name.

1 point

1. Society today is doing a good job handling people with mental or physical challenges. Society has programs that teach and help each and every person with mental or physical challenges so they become better.

2.Yes George is justified in killing Lennie because he doesn't want Curley to kill him so he does it himself so Lennie doesn't get hurt that's not by him. No Mercy killing should not be accepted even though people ask should not do it because people will be put on the spot and may not do it ut later they may.

3.George loves Lennie because at the end of the movie/story he told him that he was never mad and never meant anything he said.

4.They are similar because they both end at the River and talk about the farm and how Lennie is going to care for rabbits.

1 point

it was kind of the same. Same setting, people chasing them. It was actually quite similar.

1 point

1. They should get them some sort of help because mental health is just as important as physical. I think it is effective because they have things like hospitals and things to help. Because they can keep them safe and healthy.

2. Yes because if he let someone else do it Lennie would've suffered. In the case of Lennie who probably would've been killed either way yes.

3. I think George really did love Lennie because he felt remorse after he died. And he always stayed Lennie.

4. It is similar because they are both talking about the little place with the rabbits as their dream in reference to heaven.

1 point

1. I believe that people who are elderly or mentally and/or physically challenged should be cared for in a solitary establishment away from society. I believe that society's way today is not effective at all because of the reason that some mentally ill do not go treated for their entire life and some people don't even get diagnosed so they don't even know if they are mentally unstable.

2. I believe that George was justified to kill Lennie because Lennie was going to be killed by Curley anyway and in a more brutal way. I believe that merciful killing shouldn't be acceptable but in certain situations would not be as punishable.

3. I believe that when George first started traveling with Lennie he didn't care for him, but after a few years, he learned to start to love Lennie. One thing that helped me come to this conclusion is because in the book right before he killed Lennie he hesitated multiple times before he eventually did the deed.

4. For one thing they take place in the same setting, the river, and another thing is Lennie has George tell him how it's going to be on the farm with the rabbits after they get the money.

1 point

1. Society needs to accept these people who may be different than us mental or physical, I think that the things society is doing are being effective, but they can always improve on what they had now, further research programs could help with this.

2. George is justified in killing Lennie for he did need to be the one who killed him I think, I think that in some cases mercy killing should be morally acceptable, but if the person knows what they were doing then it shouldn't be acceptable.

3. George does truly love Lennie he was the person always with him, I think when you are with a person all day every day it may cause a relationship to grow, and his actions show that he does because why would he take such go care of Lennie if he didn't love him?

4. In Chapter 1 and the ending of the story it starts and ends with a peaceful-ish setting with George and Lennie talking about their place they were going to get. That place is what started their journey and now that was the lasting the about their journey.

1 point

1. I feel like society needs to try hard by giving people the help they need and realizing that they need help instead of making them feel dumb, they need metal help, what society is doing is half and half. putting elder in the nursing home can be safer then letting them stay at home but sometimes people would rather be in the confront of their home.

2. if curly did he would be in more pain and it just wouldn't feel right to let curly do it and not George.

3. i feel like George actually cared for lennie because if he didnt then he wouldnt be sad and feel guilty of killing lennie

4. in the end only one of them makes it out alive.

1 point

1. They should deal with them in a humane way whether or not they're independently capable.

2. Yes, George is justified in killing Lennie, and in my opinion, it's acceptable in certain situations.

3. He truly loved Lenny in my opinion, the way he talked to Lennie and encouraged him to defend himself.

1 point

Wait, offtopic but- is this a teacher on this site?

0 points

1. Society should treat them with respect and compassion. Especially since it wasn't their choice to be handicapped in any way. What society does now is no effect because the handicapped still feel like they have less of a right even if that's not all true. It's just the way people treat them to make them feel.

2. I think George is justified because he didn't want Lennie to be shot by Curley or someone with bad intentions. George knew that if Curley would've got to Lennie first he would have died painfully and slowly. I believe mercy killing should be morally acceptable but not legally. If it was legal then anyone could go shot someone and just say it was out of mercy. Killing someone mercifully is like putting a wounded animal out of its misery.

3. I believe George truly loved Lennie because he never gave up on him. George stuck with Lennie even when Lennie did bad things. The reason I believe this is because when Geroge killed Curley's wife George took the time and got to Lennie before the other men did just so he'd die quickly and painlessly.

4. The end is similar to chapter one because they both take place in the same spot and George releys the same story to Lennie to reassure him.