CreateDebate


Debate Info

20
4
It cannot be done It can be done
Debate Score:24
Arguments:12
Total Votes:29
Ended:12/01/08
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 It cannot be done (10)
 
 It can be done (2)

Debate Creator

Kuklapolitan(4310) pic



This debate has ended. You can no longer add arguments or vote in this debate.

The Pope Says that Catholics in politics are to keep faith!

The Pope Says... (hawk.heraldinteractive.com)

It cannot be done

Side Score: 20
Winning Side!
VS.

It can be done

Side Score: 4

Politics and religion don't often mix and most especially if you are a Catholic. How can anyone in either the House or Senate be true to their entire constituency if one is expected to "keep faith" with their religion? Politics are based on many thoughts, ideas, ideals and laws and most go against the teachings of Catholicism. I don't believe you can be true to the people in your state and be true to your religion at the same time.

Abortion, stem cell research, divorce and several more "sins" are not seen as such in secular America. It looks as though the Pope chose his words very carefully when drafting his statement but the gist is apparent nonetheless.

Side: It cannot be done

No...just no. Please keep your religion out of our government.

The guy even says that following the church's teachings would be for the common good. If he's talking about the do not kill, and be kind to your neighbor stuff, then fine, by all means. Something tells me though that he is more concerned about other issues like abortion and gay marriage.

I go to a Catholic church and during this past election cycle the priest would say something about voting pro-life every week. This is manipulation pure and simple. In a democracy people need to be allowed to vote based on their own rational judgment. By telling you who to vote for church's want you not to think.

Side: It cannot be done
2 points

As someone who also went to Catholic elementary school, I understand what you said above exactly. It is some thing that I struggle with often, because as a scientist I understand the benefits of stem cell research and as a woman I understand the right to want a choice, but as a Catholic I was told that there is nothing to think about... just listen to what the Church tells you.

Side: It cannot be done

I agree 100% on the church's manipulation of people in general and most especially those who hold office. Keeping the faith means to make decisions based on your religious beliefs and nothing else!

Side: It cannot be done
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
0 points

"By telling you who to vote for church's want you not to think."

Not all religions do that.

Side: It can be done
1 point

Okay...at your church do they present you with the Bible and say: "if this makes since to you go ahead and agree with it and if not you don't have to" Or do they say: "this is the word of God, accept it and be saved"

They want your faith to override your logic. This is by definition asking you not to think.

Also, I never said that all churches tell you who to vote for, if this is your complaint. I said if they do tell you who to vote for, then they are effectively telling you not to make your own decision. The Mormon church for example convinced a number of its followers to vote for prop 8 in California. This kinda confused me because Brigham Young said:

Marriage is a civil contract. You might as well make a law to say how many children a man shall have, as to make a law to say how many wives he shall have. It would be as sensible to make a law to say how many horses or oxen he shall possess, or how many cows his wife shall milk.

This seems awfully hypocritical if you think about it. The government telling you who your allowed to marry? But I digress.

Side: It cannot be done
2 points

If we live in a land where we have freedom of and from religion, politicians should keep their religious views out of the government. We live in a land of many different beliefs and one persons beliefs no more important than any others. I can police my own morals thank you and do not need any politician (religious or otherwise) to decide my morals for me.

Side: It cannot be done

Please read my comment knowing that I am a Catholic...

I don't see how the Catholics pushing their religious beliefs onto others through government is any different than when radicals do the same thing and want to run their government with their religious ideas ruling laws and behavior, for example not letting women show any skin. We (as Westerners) see this as a very wrong way to rule a country, yet we find it ok when a Western religion with Western ideals does it. It just does not seem right to me... The only person I can keep the faith for is myself!

Side: It cannot be done
1 point

I must say that I am rather sick of my fellow Catholics at the moment. But I also must say that there is a right wing within the church.

I asked my priest why the abortion litmus? He told me this - Imagine we were allowed to terminate a child up to a year of age. Nearly all people would be firmly against this inhumane practice. There comes a smart candidate running for office that is probably best for most needs of the country. But, he is for allowing the termination of one year olds. In this case, this candidate would not be elected, as the majority see the horror of this practice. We Catholics feel the same way about the unborn.

I see his point. I can also see many other points too and so I do as the Pope suggests and work passionately for the common good.

Side: It cannot be done
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
1 point

I realize I'm not arguing with your opinion here, but only with your frame of mind. Anyway...

It's a valid, if not an old, point that your priest made to you. It's not a reason for a choice though, but a choice with consequent reasoning. Okay, maybe that doesn't make sense but..

Any time you make a moral decision for someone else, which you should never do anyway, you have to take into account facts, and there are only 2 relevent facts in this issue.

1. making abortion illegal does not decrease the number of abortions, only the number of safe abortions.

2. every person with any insight into when what we call life really begins (doctors) practically unanimously believe it is not until after the first trimester at the very earliest.

If, and only if, you were to accept the Catholic ideology in the arguement of life, then you are not arguing for actual life, but the potential for it. By that arguement, (it's crude, sorry) thousands of abortions are being performed by no fault or our own every time someone ejaculates, whether 1 pregnancy is a result of that or not. I know, it's almost a cliche at this point, but true none the less.

And if you do accept it's all god's design, than he designed it such.

I'm not going to attempt to remove that cross you've chosen to burden yourself with (catholisism.) I would though suggest that with some points at least, you should be the one advising the priests, and not the other way around. After all, of the two of you, who could even bare a child from that act?

I don't have any opinion on abortion unless I know it's my kid. I would distrust any male who claims otherwise, agent of god or not.

Side: It can be done
3 points

meh, from what i've read, it's not like he wants a theocracy, he even said "work for the common good". it's not like he wants people to ban gay marriage just cause "God said so", he just wants Catholics who are politicians to not forgot their true beliefs. really, quite inspirational. I wish more people weren't afraid of admitting that they're a certain religion just cause they're in politics.

Side: It can be done
2 points

Yeah, but it's not like he's asking them to stick to their own beliefs, he's asking them to stick to the Catholic set of beliefs.

Also I'm not sure what country you live in, but politicians flaunt their religious beliefs. I am perfectly okay with a Catholic leader, or a leader of any religion really, I just want them to make their decisions based on their own judgment. If they feel pressured by their religious leaders to follow beliefs that they don't necessarily agree with then everyone suffers.

Throughout history ideologues have been willing to do terrible things because they thought the ends justified the means.

Side: It cannot be done