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21
27
Who Cares Stop the Insanity
Debate Score:48
Arguments:38
Total Votes:58
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 Who Cares (12)
 
 Stop the Insanity (18)

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The Rules #2 - Point Farming

TOPIC #1 PLAGIARISM

There are some on the site who feel compelled to point farm.  My definition of point farming is anyone who through legitimate or illegitimate means acquires point for the purpose of accumulating points.  I believe there are two categories:

Category 1: The grinder - These are people who grind our debate after debate and argument after argument to quickly but painfully build up points.
Category 2: The spammer - These people will do absolutely anything to create point farms, they create spam debates, spam arguments, automate debate creation, open communities and create spam debates within them, create multiple accounts to add arguments to their debates, and just about anything else they can think of to create points.

I am not saying one category is better than the other because both seem to upset the membership.

So here is the question...

Should members be allowed to point farm?  If your answer is yes, please state the circumstances where you believe it should be allowed (e.g. Category 1 is acceptable because they are not doing anything wrong).



The next topic up is....

 

The Rules #3 - Puppet Accounts

 

 The previous topic is...


http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/The_Rules_1_Plagiarism

Who Cares

Side Score: 21
VS.

Stop the Insanity

Side Score: 27
5 points

This is supposed to be a debate site, so CD creator whoever you are, remove points scoring for comments and lets drop the whole issue in the rubbish basket where it belongs and return to what this site was created for - as a useful learning tool to share information and engage in worthwhile discussion.

Side: Who Cares
2 points

For all you guys know I'm still doing it on the down low. ;)

Side: Who Cares

It's just points! Who honestly needs to give a #### about points!

Side: Who Cares
instig8or(3307) Disputed
1 point

Needs and wants are separate matters. :)

Side: Stop the Insanity
Atrag(5538) Disputed
2 points

Right. Who wants points? Instiga8or is the only one (and maybe a few under 13s that happen to be on this site).

Side: Who Cares
WeeklyManner(129) Clarified
1 point

Actually, the points will be used for something later on quoted in the Q and A of the website. If you were point farming, you would have enough points to use it all for the bonuses of the website. For example, the reward points will be used to color your text as 1 color to be used forever as 20 points. People would be able to point farm and collect it without having effort to make it. So while nobody cares about points, its effecting people by popularity and bonuses for the future.

Side: Who Cares
TheCapConKid(293) Clarified
1 point

Currently however, I doubt that will happen due to the excessive amounts of point farmers.

Side: Who Cares
1 point

If this sort of behavior bothers you then simply ignore it. Do not engage. Do not feed the farmer anymore than you would feed the troll.

If you want to see higher caliber debates, put the effort in to make one yourself. If you cannot be bothered then do not complain when there are none.

With respect to the points, I could not care less how many someone has or how they got them. Anyone who has been around for a while knows they are more or less, well, pointless.

Side: Who Cares

The first form seems hard to regulate, as it means that anyone who is particularly active at a given time would be "point farming". The second one on the other hand needs to stop as it has filled the site with bullst far too many times.

Side: Stop the Insanity

Just remove the leader board from the site and that should eliminate their desire to point farm. If it doesn't just hide the points altogether.

http://i.imgur.com/6RLVu6L.jpg

Side: Stop the Insanity

Yes that is true but another thing is that everyone will try to be first like PhxDemocrat when he was active,trying to beat joecalvary

Side: Stop the Insanity
1 point

Nobody is trying to be like PhxDemocrat, because none of the regulars here care about points.

Phx didn't engage in debates, he just spammed the site.

Side: Who Cares
2 points

The difference between the "grinder" and the "spammer" is in the intent of the content they post. To differentiate between the two one would someone would have to assess all the arguments in question and verify the intent by the quality of what is presented. This seems to be a pretty large task for any "moderator" to undertake.

Besides the mountain of work this undertaking would create the call of what is created to spam and what is not is always going to be subjective. Someone could intend to post something interesting but instead just post mundane topics and premises. By asserting that a poster is spamming one would be making a call on intent when the issue could be ability.

Should those with poor abilities not be able to practice and get better? Any attack on their posts being spammy may discourage them from participating in debates, this seems to be against the sites intent.

Instead of trying to differentiate between those who grind and those who spam I think another route is needed that is less of an accusation towards posters and more of how the machinations of this site work.

If changing parts of this site is not an option due to financial/personnel reasons are we only left with discerning intent of the posters?

If changes are able to be made to the inner workings of the site I like the idea of a post not getting a point, only votes up getting points. This will keep the excessive posting down. Debate creation should not get points unless enough exchanges have been made on the debate.

Of course this can still be abused by multiple accounts used to up-vote and create exchanges in the debates. But isn't finding multiple accounts easier than deciding another's intent and ability?

The issue then would be shared computers and the like. I know this is not a perfect solution but is it a better solution to what we have now?

Side: Stop the Insanity
1 point

J-Roc77, you have good suggestions. The issue around points really becomes an all or nothing due to the fact that with IP anonymizer services, there is no way to tell who has multiple accounts. The fact of the matter is that removing the point system is just not feasible. There are very few "grinders" and yes, the quality of their posts is truly suspect. The real problem is the spammer. the problem with the spammers is that the more you step on their neck to make them stop, the harder they play the game. This is a no win situation as I see it. So therefore the status quo shall remain.

Side: Stop the Insanity

Hate plagiarism! If they ban it for exams, why not ban it here??

Side: Stop the Insanity

And secondly, why do you need a debate for this topic? Just stop and ban people who plagiarise! Simple!

Side: Stop the Insanity
pirateelfdog(2655) Clarified
1 point

? This debate is not about plagiarism. It's about point farming.

Side: Who Cares
1 point

I don't care if people get points for actual debate dialogue, as that is the point of the site. When people are just writing bollocks to aggravate people or cause people to dispute with them just because they enjoy it or to point farm it is annoying. I don't mind good banter here and there but not constant bullshit chat.

Side: Stop the Insanity
1 point

The accumulation of points simply for a high point score is related to some causes of plagiarism as discussed in rule #1.

In keeping with the establishment of enforceable rules, the partial solution to rule #1 and the answer to rule #2 point farming might be the following:

No points are awarded automatically by the site. All points are awarded by fellow debaters. In connection with this rule the next rule's discussion concerning multiple accounts for one user will no longer be allowed, when point farming is detected.

Side: Stop the Insanity

The "grinder" is truly fine, because it's hard to regulate. If it was a huge problem, you could do what some other sites do and put up a 'post limit,' i.e. you can only make 3 new debates a day, or 50 comments, or something, but that seems unnecessary to me.

The "spammer" is clearly hurting the site,a nd has no intent of stimulating discussion or debate. In my opinion, they really should be controlled in some way. The only positive impact they have is increasing site traffic temporarily, but ultimately, that would easily dissuade newcomers from joining.

I know that I personally would much rather see one person hogging the site with legitimate content rather than seeing significant portions of the site filled with spam.

Side: Stop the Insanity

Can someone tell me why people waste their time trying to aquire points? What good are points? Can you get money from points? Is it all about ego's?

I could care less if I never get one point. I'm here for one reason, and that is to try and help prevent the bankruptcy of America, fiscally as well as morally.

Side: Stop the Insanity
GenericName(3429) Clarified
1 point

Then you should spend more time trying to actually change people's minds :P

And those who care about points make absolutely no sense. As you said, it is a waste of their time.

Side: Who Cares
1 point

There are people who put actual thought and time into their arguments and they deserve actual points. But why reward people who spam on purpose with no thought or effort? I think this is honestly unfair.

Side: Stop the Insanity

Part of the reason why I do not return to CD as much as I use to is that when I do stop by the check it out every now again, more times than not the majority of debates I see do not seem to make much sense and appear to be a simple grab for points. It would be nice to clean up the site a bit.

Side: Stop the Insanity
0 points

I saw nothing in the argument that mentioned the copying of arguments to point farm. When a person is incapable of creating his own debate because of a total lack of ability or knowledge, then why should he be able to get points from copying another's argument?

If you can't even take a stand against that, then this argument will do nothing to stop anything.

Side: Stop the Insanity
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

total lack of ability or knowledge

That doesn't apply to Cuaroc.

Side: Who Cares
FromWithin(8213) Disputed
1 point

That exactly applies to him. How many actual intelligent arguments has he created on his own?

Side: Stop the Insanity
pirateelfdog(2655) Clarified
1 point

Well, he did make an argument on plagiarism in "The Rules #1."

In this explanation, Andy said "My definition of point farming is anyone who through legitimate or illegitimate means acquires point for the purpose of accumulating points."*

While plagiarism is wrong, and even if that was what Cuaroc is doing, his intent is not that.

.

Recently, you have been utilizing this argument a lot: Someone has one stance you don't agree with, and therefor all of their stances are invalid. Unfortunately, that is fallacious in the realm of professional debate.

Side: Who Cares
FromWithin(8213) Clarified
1 point

The entire rule was in regards to point farming. What quicker easier way to point farm then to simply copy and paste? Especially when we have someone constantly doing it.

Side: Who Cares