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Debate Info

26
26
Seems legit Hogwash
Debate Score:52
Arguments:54
Total Votes:64
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 Seems legit (20)
 
 Hogwash (18)

Debate Creator

ProLogos(2794) pic



The reason why you're not experiencing God.

Scientists and anthropologist agree that ancient humans had much more highly developed sensory perceptions than we do. They relied on their advanced senses for every facet of survival. And those advanced senses also allowed them to feel, hear, see, and communicate with the spirits of the dead easily and clearly, especially with no preconditioned beliefs telling them that the spirit communication was either inappropriate or just plain impossible.
Mankind has grown past the point of needing to communicate with their ancestors to learn more about the world. We have large amounts of data recorded and quick access to much of that data.
Technology has separated us from God.
We preform less rituals and don't have to think as hard as we used to. And the spiritual sense is like a muscle (any bodily function is), if you stop using it, then it becomes weak.




Seems legit

Side Score: 26
VS.

Hogwash

Side Score: 26
2 points

yeah, and beards let you know when an earthquake is coming.

Side: Seems legit
Mint_tea(4382) Clarified
1 point

No but my knees tell me when we are going to get some rain. :D

Side: Seems legit
SatintLater(283) Disputed
1 point

I've seen Kayne's beard, he's got a Seismomiter (however that's spelled) on his face

Side: Hogwash
1 point

Seems to be that Islamic Jihadist are experiencing the word of their god Mohammad. Confusion of democrats distorts that fact.

Side: Seems legit
3 points

I like how not believing in somethings that has no evidence has now become a preconceived notion. That's how you know we've made progress

Side: Hogwash
ProLogos(2794) Disputed
2 points

I like how people think that they can know that there's "no evidence for something."

It really shows that mankind's reasonability...is getting nowhere. You guys can invent all the flying cars you want, but that won't give the bulk of humanity anymore wisdom or intelligence...

Side: Seems legit
nobodyknows(745) Disputed
1 point

There is no evidence that God exists. That doesn't mean he doesn't exist or that we won't eventually find some evidence that he does exist. What it does mean is that you shouldn't base any of your decisions on God existence. Just like you don't base your decisions on unicorns and leprechauns. If you do, then I have some ocean front property in Arizona you might be interested in buying.

Side: Hogwash
2 points

The ancients thought every rain or lightning bolt or successful hunt or forest fire (and on and on) was a separate god interacting with them. That's not because they had more touchy feelly going on, it's because they were ignorant with no other explanation for what they were seeing. The only difference between the pagan ancients and the Christian ancients was the number of gods they chose to believe in. Christianity just simpled it down to one. That doesn't make that one any more real or approachable to their senses, it was just streamlining their beliefs.

The simpler explanation for why modern people aren't feeling god is because they're more enlightened now to know whether or not they get rain today doesn't have to do with whether or not they pissed off their god.

Side: Hogwash
ProLogos(2794) Disputed
1 point

This is just trash talk.

Side: Seems legit
Grenache(6103) Clarified Banned
1 point

Yours or mine? ................................................................................

Side: Seems legit
2 points

Scientists and anthropologist agree that ancient humans had much more highly developed sensory perceptions than we do.

Excuse me? Care to support that with some kind of evidence?

They relied on their advanced senses for every facet of survival. And those advanced senses also allowed them to feel, hear, see, and communicate with the spirits of the dead easily and clearly, especially with no preconditioned beliefs telling them that the spirit communication was either inappropriate or just plain impossible.

You have literally no evidence for that. Ill buy the idea that because they relied on their 5 senses so heavily for survival they may have been more acute, and in our current cushy state of living where everything is catered to us we have dulled senses. But where the fuck did you get the idea that they could contact the spirits of the dead? Can you prove such spirits even exist? And can you prove that they contacted them? How did they contact them?

Mankind has grown past the point of needing to communicate with their ancestors to learn more about the world.

Because they realized you cannot in fact communicate with their ancestors and developed the scientific method which is much more useful for learning about the world then asking dead grandpa what he thinks.

We have large amounts of data recorded and quick access to much of that data.

Technology has separated us from God.

Prove god exists.

We preform less rituals and don't have to think as hard as we used to.

If anything with the amount of information we have today we have to think even harder than we used to. Back in the stone age the amount of thought that was necessary was "where can i find a deer to stab?" Now we have quantum mechanics and a plethora of other fields of study.

And the spiritual sense is like a muscle (any bodily function is), if you stop using it, then it becomes weak.

You have no evidence for this "spiritual sense"

In conclusion, this is a ton of baseless mumbo jumbo dressed up to seem scientific.

Side: Hogwash
1 point

I wouldn't say Hogwash per say, it is certainly an interesting theory. The issue I have with it though are the rampant superstitions they had for most things that can now be attributed to natural occurrence instead of spiritual. When an earthquake happens, we now know it to be tectonic plates moving beneath the earths crust where as before it was believed to be the anger of the Gods. Droughts where chalked up to the Gods or spirits being displeased by sacrifices or worship or various other imagined slights.

Mental issues such as autism or schizophrenic tendencies were believed to be caused by spirits or the devil. Hell even having a strange dream about the relative was attributed more towards the spirit world then simply the human psyche.

I think we've lost a great deal of our senses needed to survive, simply because we see ourselves as being on the top of the food chain, safe in our houses. But that loss of survival in one location of the Earth isn't the same in other more primitive areas, such as that island that no one can step foot on due to the indigenous tribe killing any visitor.

Side: Hogwash
SlapShot(2608) Disputed Banned
2 points

It's IS hogwash and it is not a theory.

Nowhere close to being a theory, dearie. (LOL--a rhyme!)

At least not in the sense we use the word "theory" in science. Which is far different as you laymen use it in every day speech, like when you say, "I have a theory why my friend Candice never talks about men; she is a dyke."

See, in science what you just called a theory is not even a hypothesis. It is a mere idea. And after some further observations and tests and experiments--if they all prove to be accurate--well, THEN you can call it a "theory."

But what ProLegos has pasted here is not even a hypothesis. It has not a shred of evidence to support the idea. It is pure unadulterated speculation. And groundless speculation at that. What is his reason for thinking this? He probably just took a half-assed idea like, "well we are not close to nature or the land anymore so we probably are not close to gods or spirits as we once were either."

This is nothing but random musings. Mental masturbation. NOT a theory.

hope this helps!

SS

http://oregonstate.edu/instruction/bb317/scientifictheories.html

Side: Seems legit
Mint_tea(4382) Clarified
2 points

Hmm, I see your side. I can amend it to "it's an interesting idea" since the terms theory was incorrectly used. And hey, there is nothing wrong with occasional mental masturbation, gets the kinks out, know what I mean?

Side: Seems legit
ProLogos(2794) Clarified
1 point

Actually where I got the idea from is in the paragraph..,...,

Also, Half assery is an art to be reckoned with.

So much chaos can be caused by an ass's half ass.

I go that idea from your half assed observation....

I think we're at a 12.5th of an ass now?

Thanks.

Side: Seems legit
1 point

Well, you began just fine, as this part is accurate..............

Scientists and anthropologist agree that ancient humans had much more highly developed sensory perceptions than we do. They relied on their advanced senses for every facet of survival. And those advanced senses also allowed them to feel, hear, see..."

But then you went off the reservation and devolved into hogwash when you continued with this...........

"..., and communicate with the spirits of the dead easily and clearly, especially with no preconditioned beliefs telling them that the spirit communication was either inappropriate or just plain impossible.

Well, I am a scientist and not only do I not believe that shit but I know of no colleagues who do.

So.......Care to tell me why you think or how you can prove that our ancestors communicated with the dead? Or with Spirits or gods or any other supernatural entities?

You cannot, because they did not. They only may have thought they did. Just like some people today believe in gods. It is an invention of the homo sapien mind, and has to do with our brain's attempt to seek purpose and order in a life filled with chaos and randomness. Our ancestors may have indeed prayed for rain or chanted to their Rain Gods for it. And then maybe once or twice it actually DID rain after their chants. SO they thought they were talking with gods. They may have also left written artifacts or petroglyphs or hieroglyphics depicting their make-believe communication with their gods.

But rest assured, those are no more real than other works of fiction such as the Bible.

Mankind has grown past the point of needing to communicate with their ancestors to learn more about the world. We have large amounts of data recorded and quick access to much of that data.

Technology has separated us from God.

Well, most rational and educated people have grown past trying to do this, and we realize that the dead do not speak, nor are their gods or spirits, and that this is all silly hocus pocus supersition. We may try to learn about our real mortal ancestors, as in genealogy, but this is the only type of "communication" with our predecessors that makes a lick of sense.

And technology cannot separate us from something that does not exist, like god. Or spirits. What IS happening here is that people are getting more educated and savvy and we are slowly learning that religion and talk of gods belongs in the mythology section of the Library of Life, and not in the Reality Section.

Ancient people DID have far more acute physical sensory skills than we, such as hearing and smell. We were more in-tuned with nature and with the land. This all makes perfect sense since we were living OFF the and were an agrarian-based society until the early 20th century.

So....yeah, there is a "use it or lose it" dynamic at work insofar as our once-acute sensory skills are concerned. Those sensory perception CAN be likened to a muscle in a very loose sense.

But as far as once being able to communicate with spirits, bullshit. I will only agree that the belief and the need in communicating with them may have been much greater than. Just like many things we now know are ignorant were believed back then, like a flat earth, or dragons, or Rain Gods, or once-dead Jewish carpenters who raise from the dead and invite doubters to stick their fingers in his sides! LOL

SS

Side: Hogwash
ProLogos(2794) Disputed
2 points

So.......Care to tell me why you think or how you can prove that our ancestors communicated with the dead? Or with Spirits or gods or any other supernatural entities?

I'm a Psychic, actually. Not a fortune teller...mind you.

Proving it would require you to decalcify your pineal gland first, because that is our spiritual antenna.

I can't just make a spirit appear in front of you. One might already be there. But your dulled senses are preventing you from interacting.

Our ancestors may have indeed prayed for rain or chanted to their Rain Gods for it. And then maybe once or twice it actually DID rain after their chants. SO they thought they were talking with gods.

That's just the wrong information.

People today frequently get the wrong information whether through misinterpretation or word of mouth, it happens.

And since some people from this era have the wrong information then that makes everything we know today, false, according to you.

And technology cannot separate us from something that does not exist,

True. Too bad no one has proved that "it" doesn't exist.

And no one can prove it. Especially you.

Side: Seems legit
SlapShot(2608) Disputed Banned
1 point

You're more psycho than psychic, Rufus.

The pineal gland is a pea sized tissue mass that sits behind the third ventricle if the brain, and it secretes chemicals like serotonin and melatonin that help regulate our circadian rhythm...as well as our sleep cycle.

Any notions if it having metaphysical properties like a spirit antenna are silly and bogus psuedo science woo.

Rene Descartes,,,he of the famous I think therefore I am,,,,quote, once speculated that the pineal was the seat of the soul. Of course he was wrong as so far science has shown there is zero evidence for existence of a soul. We can explain all aspects of self awareness and personality and even near death experiences without it. By using purely physical and materialist explanations.

Descartes also lived some 200 years ago....lots of medical and psuedo science ignorance back then. What's your excuse, being you live in the 21st century.

You cannot prove I don't have an invisible fire breathing dragon in my garage. I cannot believe you had to resort to the "you can't disprove me" lameness. This is something dadman would say. You need to bail on this whole debate and concede that me and Ave totally jobbed you. Man up, Mr I can hit the fuck out of anything!

LOL..that old quote of yours still cracks my ass up!

SS

Side: Hogwash
1 point

(MY) reason is I haven't heard from "him" (I) haven't seen any action from him. (I) haven't seen him answer ANYONE's prayers. (I) haven't seen one iota of proof that IT exists. (I) can't see why an "allpowerful" can't straighten out the mess of confusion HIS believers have spread around the world. (I) do not wish to experience a cruel "god" (OR devil)! (I) wish he would just show up and show the people of the world some REAL "love". (I) will wait with an open mind, but I won't just believe what I am taught to believe, or what I read in a book.

Side: Hogwash
ProLogos(2794) Disputed
1 point

You're just a spoiled brat like the rest.

Always with the, "I want this, I want that. MAKE OUR LIVES PERFECT OR YOU DON'T REALLY LOVE US."

You've been given life and the ability to feel happiness and God has given you the free will to seek that happiness.

But nothing is Good enough for you humans , is it?

Take your lives then, if you don't want it. God is not your slave .

Side: Seems legit
AlofRI(3177) Clarified
1 point

And YOU are NOT "human"?????????????????????????????????????????????

Side: Seems legit
SlapShot(2608) Disputed Banned
0 points

Yeah...you are right.

Those damn 5000 or more children that die every single day on this planet due to disease and starvation are spoiled brats.

Your magnificent god is just one big divine ray of sunshine and goodness, letting them die like that, eh?

fuck off with that argument. it angers me. and you don't want that.

SS

Side: Hogwash
1 point

I dunno, I don't usually feel things that aren't real. X'D

Side: Hogwash
1 point

The above "definition" is not actually true, or even original, it's actually direct copypasta of the fifth paragraph of Chapter 2 of "The Truth About Psychics: What's Real, What's Not, and How to Tell the Difference" by Sylvia Browne.

This is a claim that is unsubstantiated, but worse, Sylvia Browne herself is a proven fraud, not only have several of her psychic predictions been proven false, but she was convicted of fraud and grand larceny by The Superior Court of Santa Clara County, California.

But that's just poisoning the well, let's look at the actual claim, do "scientists and anthropologists" agree that humans had stronger senses?

Well, according to some brief research I did of the brain, sensory input is a complicated series of processes utilizing the thalamus, cerebrum and neocortex; but, our current brains are more developed than the brains of our forebearers, and there's no proof that any part of our brains were more highly tuned or in any way better at sensory perception, so I can't accept that claim.

Not to mention, this is professing an additional claim, that this greater sensory perception includes an ability to see things beyond the natural world, which includes spirits, would only be believable if you presupposed that immortal spirits existed.

And finally, as a side note, if some ancestor of ours had "greater" perception, then that evolutionary characteristic would have been passed down to its descendants.

UNLESS that was a mutation that was not naturally selected to be fit for our descendants. Which is to say, even if I assumed that this claim is true - which I don't - it could only be true if the ability to perceive god was naturally selected out of our evolutionary line; which is to say that some of our ancestors could see god and others couldn't, and the ones that could were less likely to survive. What would that say about gods?

Thankfully, I don't believe this is true. It's total hogwash.

Side: Hogwash
ProLogos(2794) Clarified
1 point

The key , is shoes.

When we started wearing shoes with thick bottoms it separated us from the earth energy...

Side: Seems legit
0 points

Your sin separates you from God, and as long as you love your sin you will remain separated from God and not experience knowing Him.

Side: Hogwash
Grenache(6103) Disputed Banned
1 point

My sin from Adam and Eve eating the forbidden apple? Take that up with them.

Side: Seems legit
SatintLater(283) Disputed
0 points

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Side: Seems legit
ProLogos(2794) Clarified
1 point

I can't tell if this is relevant or not....well done dropigy..........

Side: Seems legit
AveSatanas(4425) Clarified
1 point

That makes about as much sense as saintnow. 10/10 troll. Well done

Side: Seems legit