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58
49
True enough There is heaven/hell. Duh!
Debate Score:107
Arguments:90
Total Votes:112
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 True enough (40)
 
 There is heaven/hell. Duh! (38)

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AryaOne(217) pic



There is no Hell or Heaven.

I know all you religious theists would disagree (I am a theist myself but a non-religious one) but think about it, why would an apparently loving God send people to hell for doing things that nobody can prove are wrong? Also, why would a God make us go through this hell (earth) to decide if he wants to put us in heaven or his own hell? What's the point? 

 

How about considering that we are 'souls' meant to experience 'duality' in the earth's plane (or other planes) and then we go back to the creator's plane which is 'absolute'?

True enough

Side Score: 58
VS.

There is heaven/hell. Duh!

Side Score: 49
3 points

We are not meant to be puppets of a puppeteer known as God, are we?

Side: True enough
jakeylol Disputed
1 point

Look we aren't puppets to God, people who believe in God have their own free will to do what they want, they just read and pray twice aday for not that long(less that 5 minutes prayer and 10 bible). They don't take drugs or alcohol, get tattoes, kill, lie, worship statues although Catholics do and so one. Really a Christian life is considerably healthier and a real good christian should be really pleasant to meet.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
1 point

people who believe in God have their own free will to do what they want, they just read and pray twice aday for not that long

That's not absolute free will. Your soul is being held ransom so long as you pray and read the bible for 15 minutes per day, AND so long as you go to church every Sunday for roughly an hour (you forgot that part).

They don't take drugs or alcohol, get tattoes, kill, lie, worship statues although Catholics do and so one.

Actually, a lot of christians do all of those things. I'm curious though why you have this religious discrimination against Catholics....

Really a Christian life is considerably healthier

Healthier than what...?

Side: True enough
3 points

I don't believe in God, and in such don't believe in Heaven or Hell either.

Side: True enough
3 points

There is no heaven or hell because both "god" and Satan are fictional characters. To prove this, I ask two questions: If "god" is almighty and can do anything, can he create a stone he cannot destroy?, and if Satan is as evil as the Bible says he is, why does he punish the sinners instead of rewarding them?

Side: True enough
Vermink(1943) Disputed
1 point

Yes but you can't prove that there isn't a god, but i think he's there and that he is real.

On that I grew up in a christian family with another reason, israel is the promised land for the jews, and in 1967 there was a 6 day war were 4 countrys attacked israel yet israel won. Now how would that happen if there wasn't a god to protect them.

(I'm not trying to turn into a christian i'm terrible at that :P but thats my opinion on whether god is real or not)

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!

If everyone is forgiven that means everyone is sent to heaven, correct? Then what is the point of hell? Doesn't that just make hell redundant? Not that there are either, I'm just sayin'...

Side: True enough
Vermink(1943) Disputed
1 point

I can see your point but i believe you only get forgiven if you ask for forgivness with deep sincerity from the heart.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
1 point

I agree with you, you must first know you need forgiveness then ask for it. Not everyone is forgiven, just the opposite a lot of people never repent.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
2 points

I do not understand why the existence of heaven of hell is always tied to the existence of God. I myself believe in God, but do not believe in heaven or hell. It seems the world's people have been brainwashed by the Church to believe in the existence of these "places". If you want to argue the existence of these places by pointing to Jesus's words in the Christian Bible, I understand, to put it that way, as you are using what you have, but there is no proof that the Bible is a good record of the happenings. On the other hand, it HAS been proven that Jesus "preformed" feats that were not understood by the average person of that time, recorded even by a visiting Greek who described the events as magical. In the Bible, Jesus may have spoken of heaven and hell, yet who's to say that the books of the New Testament were not tampered with since their creation almost 2 millennia ago. I rest my case that if God is a good God, he/she/it would not create (or allow the creation of) a place such as hell, therefore it's existence doesn't seem to make sense. As for heaven: everything comes from God, he/she/it has no need to create a separate place for the spirits of people who have "proven themselves good" as everything is already inherently not negative, spirits can go wherever they want. (The only reason for the existence of "bad" on earth is the characteristic of humans known as free will and the fact that we forget where we came from, God.)

Side: True enough
1 point

Yes exactly. Also the fact that there is nothing right or wrong in the world. How would a God decide what is wrong that deserves hell and what is right? Even we in our small worlds are sometimes confused on whose side to take!

Side: True enough

I do believe in god, but after a while of questioning myself i feel that maybe god just means hell/heaven as a metaphor as something else, maybe a state of mind.

Side: True enough
1 point

I seriously refuse to believe what we do in ONE life time determines our eternity. Not to mention we can't help where we are brought up or raised, but we could very well still go to hell for it.

Side: True enough
openx(30) Disputed
1 point

That is a huge gamble you are taking, betting your immortal soul on that line of logic. We may not be able to control where we are born or raised but we can make our own choices once we are an adult. More people find their way to Hell than find their way to Heaven, so sad. Consider the following passages.

Matthew 7:13-14

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there at : 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

John 10:9

9. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture

John 14:6

6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
Saurbaby(5579) Disputed
1 point

Some people don't know they have the choice. And if you're raised in some other country and a missionary comes to visit you, because the place you were raised and such you'd think they were crazy. And how couldn't you?

Side: True enough
pancake(143) Disputed
1 point

I seriously refuse to believe what we do in ONE life time determines our eternity. Not to mention we can't help where we are brought up or raised, but we could very well still go to hell for it.

Why would they go to hell for that?

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
1 point

either heaven and hell are states of mind, or they don't exist period.

Side: True enough
1 point

i dont believe there is heaven or hell i believe once u die u die your body just goes in the ground and decay which leaves your bones

Side: True enough

i dont think it exists, i think that they were made up to give people hope and to lead the people and the youth in a more positive moral direction

Side: True enough

I don't believe in that stuff.... if so where are they... and don't say down or up.... like where is it (supposedly)

Side: True enough
3 points

Here is a link that shows that this author went to hell and heaven. It is true and it actually happened.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
pancake(143) Disputed
2 points

I could write a book saying I went to Atlantis and The Land Before Time. A made up story isn't proof.

Side: True enough
Srom(12204) Disputed
2 points

This isn't a made up story she was a eyewitness when she saw heaven and hell. If you would read the book or go to that website you have to take what is in context to scripture and the book. In the Bible it said there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth and when she went there there was weeping, and gnashing of teeth.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
Saurbaby(5579) Clarified
2 points

I read her story. And I have to say, I think she's simply dreaming and having nightmares. I say that because the story talks about things only the woman would know about. Obviously things that were already stored in her mind. For example, all those people in hell were all Christian at one point, or all lived an America lifestyle. She not once talks about someone anywhere else, all these people were close to home.

I also bet money that she had a miscarriage. She created this whole separate world for aborted and miscarried babies. Something that actually doesn't fit into the story at all, but would be a comfort to know for herself.

The whole book seems to be simply a reflection of her own fears of hell, which is an understandable fear if you follow the religion, and believe it. More proof of it being her fear is Jesus actually abandons her in hell! Twice! Would your savior seriously do something so cruel and heartless?

I think it's all just her imagination. Therefore it's not proof for anything. It's simply fear. Which, if God is so full of love and care, is a TERRIBLE way to convince people to follow your religion. Not to mention it won't convince someone to actually follow it, it would simply scare someone into it.

Side: True enough
Srom(12204) Disputed
2 points

She wasn't simply dreaming about it or having nightmares she explained that she left her body and went through a tunnel if you went to the website and clicked on the youtube video on the left she explains what she saw. All those people who were in hell were in hell for a reason. Some people who were pastors who preached God's word went to hell because they preached some of the wrong thing, if you read the book it said that this one pastor went to hell because he preached something that was totally false.

She didn't have a miscarriage. Why would you assume that?

Well of course she feared hell because it was a scary place. If you were her and saw how people were suffering you would change your behavior and think am I doing what God wants me to do. It isn't her imagination its the reality. It isn't a terrible way to convince people to follow my religion, it actually is a good way and it teaches people.

Side: True enough
ricedaragh(2498) Disputed
2 points

OH man, whatever about believing the Bible, but this shit, you'd want to have no common sense at all.

Side: True enough
2 points

why would an apparently loving God send people to hell for doing things that nobody can prove are wrong?

Hmm. If you could find a way to prove exactly what things in life are right, and what things in life are wrong, would that make it all okay?

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
AryaOne(217) Clarified
2 points

Prove it and we will see.

Even murder is not wrong. We made it wrong for humanity to survive. Tell this to the person who murdered his enemy to save himself. According to him, what he did was 'right'. How can God judge what is right and wrong? And if murder is really wrong, why did he put a man in a position where he had to take that action?

If you say, God was 'testing' that man. Then I'd like to ask, what test? And why?

Side: True enough
ledgy(21) Disputed
2 points

I agree with the general message of your statement, but I disagree on some minor points. First of all, one who kills to save himself acts in self-defense, not murder, and, according to many Christian sources, "god" gives us free will and the ability to choose because he is so incredible that he can make murder help his "plans of good."

Side: True enough
pancake(143) Disputed
1 point

Prove it and we will see.

Even murder is not wrong. We made it wrong for humanity to survive. Tell this to the person who murdered his enemy to save himself. According to him, what he did was 'right'. How can God judge what is right and wrong? And if murder is really wrong, why did he put a man in a position where he had to take that action?

If you say, God was 'testing' that man. Then I'd like to ask, what test? And why?

Do you believe that right and wrong exist?

Side: True enough
SullenCynic(40) Disputed
1 point

You can't. Right, wrong, good and evil are all subjective.

Side: True enough
1 point

Yes, absolutely. That's why I said, that God can not send you to a 'hell' based on some 'wrong' you did which is subjective!

Side: True enough
pancake(143) Disputed
1 point

You can't. Right, wrong, good and evil are all subjective.

Does that mean that right and wrong exist in the eyes of the subject?

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
2 points

I don't believe anybody can answer this debate. The best form of proof in my book is experience. I do believe in a heaven and hell and there are lots of accounts of people saying that they went to hell and heaven. You can look up these accounts on youtube. Just type in "i went to heaven" or "i went to hell."

These accounts could be fake and if you didn't went to heaven or hell, then you cannot say that they exist. Believe it or not, i can't say Europe exists because i never been Europe. You know, this can be a great example to those who are against people who say that they went to heaven or hell. It is a good example because we see maps of Europe and Asia and we say those two continents exist. However, i bet the same people will say that there is no Heaven and Hell. But there are other people who say that Heaven and Hell exists. This makes those non believers hypocrites. Just sayin.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
TheThinker(1712) Clarified
2 points

I need to clarify. My grammar is messed up.

What i saying is that basically a group of people will say there is no heaven or hell. Now if those same group of people never been to Europe and admit that Europe exists, the same group are hypocrites.

They are hypocrities because basically they will say there is no heaven or hell because there is no reliable evidence in their mind that will prove heaven or hell's existence. However, the same type of evidence that says that there is a heaven or hell says Europe exists. These so called "evidence" can be newspapers, articles, maps, or people's words.

So generally, if you don't believe in a heaven or hell. Then you can't say that any place you haven't gone to exists.

Person 1: I got an airline ticket to Mexico. I never been there before.

Person 2: It is a great place for vacation.

Person 1: Really? wow but first i have to see if it exists.

lol

Side: True enough
AryaOne(217) Clarified
2 points

Sorry, but I don't really understand which side you speaking from.

Your grammar is okay. My English isn't as good as yours.

Side: True enough
2 points

God sends us to hell because we let saten tempt us with his evil mockery, If you give in to that you have sinned you can be forgiven but if you don't believe in god and ask for forgiveness then thats your problem, the devil dosn't give sod about us he just wants to see gods children (us) go down to his level and not be with god.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
Saurbaby(5579) Disputed
3 points

You know... When worded like that... God and the Devil need to grow up and stop acting like children! Why can't they just share us?

Side: True enough
2 points

If they exist...if...they are obviously non-materiel in nature, which kind of rules out proving/disproving them at this point in humanity's development. However, let us discuss means of access....

We can't get to such places by walking or riding in a plane right? We kind of have to get there when we die, correct? We go to one or the other, sure?

but when? Many years after we are dead and berried, you can scoop our biological remains out of our coffin. So the "we" which we claim to be right now is obviously not in "h or h", it is in a disturbingly expensive wooden box.

The only way this scenario works is if we have souls...which...ummm...there is no reason to believe in except for personal comfort. I mean this whole thing boils down to a seriously rigid punishment/reward system based on a currency that we have no legitimate reason to accept, except they we are too weak to accept that we are a very temporary accident of chemistry and cheap cologne.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
2 points

THAT'S IT!!!

I AM GOING TO KILL MYSELF, COME BACK, AND END THESE GOD DEBATES ONCE AND FOR ALL.

YOUR WELCOME!

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
2 points

You talking to me? I am so confused with the format of this site. So many people and so many replying here and there. It's so difficult to concentrate.

Anyways, I hope you haven't killed yourself....

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
TheThinker(1712) Clarified
2 points

:) Im just kidding. I like to make jokes like that. I was generally talking to everbody. I was generally making a silly comment. :)

Side: True enough
2 points

It all depends on what you belive i would imagen, some people belive in those things some belive in a blackness. People normally belive in a heaven or hell because they want to know there is something better after life.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!

I know all you religious theists would disagree (I am a theist myself but a non-religious one) but think about it, why would an apparently loving God send people to hell for doing things that nobody can prove are wrong?

Well if there is a God to send people into hell in the first place, then He is the one determining if what they have done is right or wrong. God is omniscient. The whole thing is that some people dont believe in him, but if it was proven that he was real (by saying that he sends people to hell you are assuming he is real, whether for the sake of your argument or not.) if anyone disobeys what he says then that is wrong, and it can definitely be proven.

Also, why would a God make us go through this hell (earth) to decide if he wants to put us in heaven or his own hell? What's the point?

Earth is nothing compared to hell. Hell is infinitely worse 1. Hell is continuous torment with no relief. Whereas there are some good things on earth, and even if you got through something that is bad, some good things will probably come later, in hell there is continuous torture nonstop.

How about considering that we are 'souls' meant to experience 'duality' in the earth's plane (or other planes) and then we go back to the creator's plane which is 'absolute'?

Umm yeah. That is kinda already the point. We live on earth and after we die we go to live with him if we believe. So you are pretty much saying the same thing we already believe in but there is no hell. I really don't get this debate at all. All of the points are pretty much incorrect, but the last one you made up just makes no sense because that is what we already believe, minus hell, so you could've just said there is no hell. I really don't understand your point.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
ChuckHades(3198) Disputed
1 point

if anyone disobeys what he says then that is wrong, and it can definitely be proven.

Isn't that the foundation of many awful totalitarian dictatorships in history. Disobeying Big Brother, and being vaporised for thoughtcrime?

Earth is nothing compared to hell. Hell is infinitely worse 1. Hell is continuous torment with no relief. Whereas there are some good things on earth, and even if you got through something that is bad, some good things will probably come later, in hell there is continuous torture nonstop.

That is incompatible with an omnibenevolent being then. Besides, Hell doesn't sound that bad to me. I'd rather be there than heaven.

I really don't understand your point.

I think it's supposed to be posed as a question, "Is there no heaven or hell?".

Side: True enough
The Phantom(453) Disputed
1 point

Isn't that the foundation of many awful totalitarian dictatorships in history. Disobeying Big Brother, and being vaporised for thoughtcrime?

"Wrong" as i posed it is true by definition. Wrong is disobeying what God says, so disobeying what he says is wrong. She said that she is a theist, but not a religious one, so first i must see if she is speaking of the Judeo-Christian God, or some other one that doesn't require human obedience. She already is assuming that there is a God, but she is saying how can he send people to hell without knowing if they did wrong. I was explaining, that on the basis that God (Judeo Cristian) does exist, he is omniscient so he knows if they did wrong.

That is incompatible with an omnibenevolent being then. Besides, Hell doesn't sound that bad to me. I'd rather be there than heaven.

Maybe that is what you believe, but that should be saved for another time. In my prior argument i wasn't trying to prove whether hell is compatible with an omnibenevolent God or not, i was just explaining to her how earth is not hell, (Assuming that God exists). Again, this is only in relations to the Judeo-Christian God. The question seems as it is pointed at Christians, so i am trying to see if it is.

I think it's supposed to be posed as a question, "Is there no heaven or hell?"

I think so too, but it seems like under her question she is trying to make a statement, which is why at the end she gave an alternative to heaven and hell.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
pancake(143) Disputed
1 point

if anyone disobeys what he says then that is wrong, and it can definitely be proven.

"Isn't that the foundation of many awful totalitarian dictatorships in history. Disobeying Big Brother, and being vaporised for thoughtcrime?"

Although I'd have to say he worded it unnecessarily harshly, the point isn't far off. 

I mean, isn't that essentially the foundation of many okay democratic governments today? Disobeying the law, and being thrown in jail for civil crime?

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
pancake(143) Disputed
1 point

why would an apparently loving God send people to hell for doing things that nobody can prove are wrong?

"Well if there is a God to send people into hell in the first place, then He is the one determining if what they have done is right or wrong. God is omniscient. The whole thing is that some people dont believe in him, but if it was proven that he was real (by saying that he sends people to hell you are assuming he is real, whether for the sake of your argument or not.) if anyone disobeys what he says then that is wrong, and it can definitely be proven."

That doesn't answer the question of why a loving being would do such a thing. 

Side: True enough
The Phantom(453) Disputed
1 point

That doesn't answer the question of why a loving being would do such a thing.

I am not trying to answer it, as that isnt the point of the debate. This has been done numerous times in the problem of evil debates, so lets stick to the topic.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
1 point

God is real atheist who do you think created the world? Huh GOD DID WE DIDNT COME HERE FROM THE BEGINNING WE WERE MADE BY GOD I AM SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE NOT BELIEVING WHEN YOU DIE WHERE DO YOU GO YOU DON'T JUST NEVER BLINK AGAIN OR BREATHE WE GO TO HEAVEN OR HELL

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
AryaOne(217) Disputed
1 point

How are you so SURE that we go to Heaven OR hell ?

Side: True enough
vandebater(444) Disputed
1 point

prove it. how does it not make sense that we just die and "never blink again". why did something HAVE to create the world. your theist so your all about "theres things we cant understand". just because you cant understand how our world was created without a god does not mean its not possible. How do heaven and hell exist? im tired of some theists going around and claiming things without even slight evidence of what there saying is true.

Side: True enough
1 point

I believe after this life i will go may be in heaven or hell. It s independant what i did in this life as a good things or bad things.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
1 point

Of course there is, think of it. People have been believing in heaven/hell for thousands of years longer than atheists believed there wasn't.

Plus how can people believe that once your dead there is nothing else. Do you have no hope at all.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
1 point

We are gonna find out the right time we are gonna die. I don't think that there is heaven or hell, the whole concept is stupid.

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
1 point

Prove it .

Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!
-1 points

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Side: There is heaven/hell. Duh!