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There is no afterlife!
No matter whether you believe in Heaven, Hell, Vallhalla, Shangrila, utopia etc. many people believe in some form of Life after death. I propose that as scary as it may be that death is the end. it is permannent and there is no afterlife. The afterlife is just a way of people feeling comfortable with the end of their exsistence!
This isn't really a point but I have to ask, wheres the proof that there is an afterlife?
I believe, based on the evidence that when a person dies, their body shuts down and starts to decompose, and just as an after-thought, think to yourself, is that really such a bad thing? and Do I really believe that there is (based on the evidence), or do I just really really want there to be one.
Consciousness does not survive brain death. Consciousness is the result of bio-chemical reactions within the brain. The phenomena associated with near death experiences such as having your life flash before your eyes, seeing a white light, and seeing your own body can all be explained scientifically.
There is however a circle of life. All that makes up your physical body is recycled back into nature and may form the foundation for new life. Death makes life possible.
What does it matter that consciousness does not survive brain death or that you have theories for why people claim white lights or what not?
Empiricism (and thus science) is limited by what can be observed, and by it's very nature, death is out of bounds. Coming back to report observations, since you discount near-death-experiences, is impossible.
Since empiricism can neither prove nor disprove an afterlife, we are left to other-than-science to explain it if we attempt it at all. I believe it exists.
What does it matter that consciousness doesn't survive death? Well, what exactly is being suggested that survives death? Certainly not the body, and certainly not consciousness. What is left?
Since empiricism can neither prove nor disprove an afterlife, we are left to other-than-science to explain it if we attempt it at all. I believe it exists.
What reliable 'other-than-science' methodology do we have that doesn't depend on observation? Even if one existed there would be no way to reasonably know, without observation to confirm it's reliability. Unless you know something that I don't.
I want to answer this debate but not with the two available answers. None of these answers are my answers except....
I remember i saw this video on the internet. The video was about a woman who experienced the afterlife. What she said that was most amazing was that she met and talked to God. Weird how she didn't describe him. However, if her story is true, then who did she really speak with?
Yes she could be lying. But i don't want to live in a world where i can't trust anybody. Why? I can't live if i can't trust. However, i believe her. I do agree that everyone is wired the same. Well i can't say for all. However, the seeing of the light and the tunnel is familiar stories. Could this all be a part of the brain? Sure. Possible and i agree, most likely probable.
No disrespect. But i don't like this debate because you can't prove for yourselves that there is a afterlife or not. Those who say and those who say not probably don't have proof or anything near proof to support thier accusation. I understand the person the right hand side of this debate talked about stories about the afterlife. But i can't say that is proof like the story i gave. It is near proof in my opinion.
In the end, i would believe in God and the afterlife. Why? I wanna believe. And, there are so many things, this world, universe and miracles that thinking that there isn't a God seems illogical. Coincidence? Possibly. Probably? Not likely in my opinon.
There is a afterlife people who died in the hospital got recisated and told them what they saw. Read Divine Revelation of Hell. Also read Divine Revelation of heaven. No they are not fiction storys they are non fiction.
So you say. I know people have visions etc. when they have died and resusitated. I feel that they truly BELIEVE this was the afterlife etc. but could be a combination of many things including medication, dreams, trauma etc. I do not think you have given enough information for this to be a valid response!
If you read Divine Revelation of Hell and Heaven by both the same author Mary K. Baxter. Basically the author goes to hell and heaven and Jesus tell stories of people who disobeyed him and served Satan rather Jesus and people went to hell/ Also if your a Christian you have to base it on what the Bible has to say about Heaven and Hell. I know that in the Bible says that there will be weeping, screaming and gnashing of teeth. In Heaven they say that there will be golden streets. Which I believe is true.
Problem is this is a mortal person who can say whatever they want. As far as I am concerned it is a book of fiction. I do not think the exsistence/non-exsistence of the Afterlife can be proven by something you read by a modern day author!
Its not a book of fiction. You have to test the scriptures in the Bible. It says in the Bible that in hell there would be weeping,screaming, and gnaws of teeth. She saw that when she went to hell. Look at the people who got resisated and they told people that they were in hell to you think thats fiction when someone saw it with there own eyes and just because you cant see it doesnt mean its not there. When you die you ethier go to Heaven. Heaven is for people who believed in Jesus Christ and lived his way until they died. Hell is for people who did not know God at all and did very bad thing and never followed God's way.
I think the more likely explanation is that 'said person convinced themselves that he/she saw hell after the fact. Or this person could just being lying. Either way you slice it, this doesn't make a compelling case to believe.
Be careful with your wording. You essentially asked, "why would someone lie about seeing hell and heaven when they actually saw it?" Which is either assuming they are not lying in the first place, or that they are saying they didn't see it when they did. The second meaning isn't with in the context of previous posts. I think the question you meant was: " why would some one say they saw heaven or hell when they didn't?". There are numerous answers, such as them not understanding their experience fully and thus inaccurately describing it, purposefully being deceitful to gain favors and influence over others, etc.
( if you had a near death experience and know you could make millions off of writing a book about it just by smudging the facts or spinning it to sound like typical expectations people would buy into,wouldn't it be tempting?)
Because I believe they actually saw it because if God told them to tell or describe what happened to them when they were there. Also those people were true Christians and they obey the commandments so they would not lie.
That you believe it doesn't tell me how you know it.
Belief =/= knowledge
Also those people were true Christians and they obey the commandments so they would not lie.
Your naivety is charming, but for your sake you need to shed this notion. People lie. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Pagan, Hindu, Buddhist, non-religious. Everybody lies. Some people lie more than others, but everybody lies and it would behoove you to understand this. Even when people aren't lying them may be telling you something that isn't true, while simultaneously believing it.
If someone tells you something that is false, but they believe it to be true, then it isn't a lie. So even if a person isn't lying, this doesn't necessarily mean they are correct either.
Just the fact that you believe in manmade concepts like Heaven and Hell I think diminishes youe dispute. It may be that this person BELIEVED they went where they said and saw what they saw but the fact still remains that this is just fiction. You said to me "Just because you can't see it does not mean it is there" Well I retort "If you believe in it also does not prove it exsists!" The scary fact is that when people die they rot in the groung like any natural entity and any other animal. This may be a scary concept but it is proven. We can see the decomposition etc.
Watch the DVD called Life after the Grave by Pat Robertson and there is real people who have been to hell and heaven and they tell there experiences while they were in there.So does that mean its fiction because they actually saw it? Did you know a lot of archalogists looks to the Bible to find the buildings and stuff. Thats not fiction. Also in the Bible it has the name of the cites that Jesus went to that we have today so how can you say the Bible is fiction when Jesus went to Jerusalem and you thinks its false. You need to read the book I mentioned you about and test to see if its fiction. I think you automatically think that its fiction. Did you know there was a witness of 500 people who saw when Jesus rose from the dead? I guess you probably think thats fiction too because even if a large amount of people saw it you probably think its fiction. And maybe if you actually read the Bible its more than stories its also has prophecy and also has a lot of stuff that are for Christians that are helpful.
As to your response. #1 Heaven and Hell are manmade concepts to place consequences on people's actions! If you obey them and you are a good little Christian and drink the Kool-aid you go to Heaven. If you do not and you break the rules then you go to Hell where you get tortured for eternity. Great fairy tale concepts. As for the Bible being fiction it is what is referred to as legend. Tales based in places familiar to the readers at the time but using fictional, characters and events to tell a story and give a morality lesson. As in Greek, Egyptian, Roman, and Norse mythos and legend as well. As for eyewitnesses to the ressurection, #1 How many people in the World have claimed to see Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, Elvis alive, Ufos etc. The list goes on and on. #2 These people were most likely great followers of Jesus and Christianity so wanted to spread his story and maintain the legend, others were probably also being questioned by the Romans and told them what they wanted to hear, in fear of their lives. As any police detective will tell you eye witnesses are usually not that reliable!
1. Heaven and Hell were no manmade. Its says in Genenis 1:1 In the Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. Hell was not manmade God created it. Jesus said that to go get to Heaven is narrow but wide it is to get to hell. You dont get one chance and thats it thats not how it works. God gives us a lot of chance because we sin. God is perfect he never sinned. You and me make mistakes and then we start all over again. God gave us free will to choose whatever we believe in. So its your choice if want to belive in Jesus or not. Heaven is for people who served Jesus for the day they accecpted him to the day they die. And they have to follow what his teaching said on how to act as a Christian. Hell is for people who didnt believe in Jesus who did terrible things like witchcraft,was a homosexual when they died, died as a athiest who said there was no God. So your telling me that when we die there is nothing around us? How boring it would be for our souls to be in a place where nothing is. I rather be in eternity with Jesus in Heaven then go to the fiery pits of Hell. I hope some day you put Jesus into your life and to his will and everything. I hope to see you in heaven some day! :)
When you continue to quote info from a book written by people, supposedly about the word of God. A book by the way that has been edited numerous times in it's history based on the whims of kings, the church etc. As for your saying people did terrible things did not go to heaven and you list not believing in God as one of those things. Seems to me that got is extremely egotistical if one of the prerequisits for getting into heaven. Needs people to believe. A bit pathetic in my opinion! As for where we go when we die. NOWHERE! as scary and boring as that may seem. It actually cannot be boring because you are dead! Adults who actually believe in all powerful entities and that we have special little things inside us called souls, in my opinion are childish and foolish. Someone once said to me "If I am wrong about there being a God I will lose nothing when I die. If you are wrong you lose eternity." To which I responded "Incorrect if you are wrong you lose the very thing that you hold most precious. Your Faith!"
In the last book of the Bible it says nothing should be taken out of the Bible or added on do the Bible. Fine believe that there is no afterlife but when you will die you will know that I am correct just wait and see and then you will be saying I should have listened to Srom1883. I am done with this debate with you because this can go on for who knows when. I did my part to tell about afterlife and when i say something about a book you say its false and I am tired of people like you saying oh thats false. I am going to leave you alone. When you die God will decide where you will go. I hope some day you find Jesus Christ as you Lord and Saviour and know he is God. Its your choice to believe or not. I will pray for you to change even though you probably dont want me to pray for you I will still pray for people who need help with God
BTW I have read the Bible as well as the Torah and the Koran and the Book of the dead and The origin of species. See that is how I know what I am talking about. I have read them and debated them with scholars. Find it quaint that people do not take these as simple morality tales and take such a larger meaning in them. Yes the Bible contains many great messages as do alot of legends and fable. Does not make it History!
Watch the DVD called Life after the Grave by Pat Robertson
Pat Robertson is a loon.
Did you know a lot of archalogists looks to the Bible to find the buildings and stuff. Thats not fiction. Also in the Bible it has the name of the cites that Jesus went to that we have today
The film Saving Private Ryan also contains real locations, but many of the events in the film never happened.
Did you know there was a witness of 500 people who saw when Jesus rose from the dead?
...According to a passage within the bible. But if the bible is a work of fiction, then perhaps this too is fictitious. If 500 people did see a man rise from the dead none of them thought it was an important enough event to write about it when it happened. There is no corroborating evidence anywhere to support your claim.
Fine you can say that Bible is fiction. I read the Bible most of the time everyday. If you dont want to believe in Jesus Christ then its your choice. I dont have a problem with you believing in anything. I also hope you follow back to Christ and forgive him of what you have done. I hope some day I will see you one day in Heaven. Also watch Jack Van Impe Presents. He is the "Walking Bible" He studyed all the verses in the Bible. And some of the signs of Jesus's coming are becoming true. Jesus Christ is coming back soon!
I don't require permission to say that the Bible is most likely a grand work of fiction. I say this for a number of reasons:
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1) The Bible contains many fantastical elements which cannot be corroborated.
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2)We do not find fantastical or supernatural elements anywhere else in verifiable history.
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3)People living in ancient times liked to tell tall tales, fables, myths and parables. We have a plethora of examples of this.
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Therefore I find it incredibly likely that the Bible is a collection of tall tales, myths, fables, and parables and I find it incredibly UNLIKELY that it is a collection of historical events. If you have good reason to think otherwise, then please present your case.
I hope some day that you recieve Jesus again into your life because you need help. You dont need all those false stuff that you have been saying stuff to me. I hope I see you in heaven some day. And why is it everytime when it has to do with Jesus or something why do you always come into the argument its no fun when you always have those false information thats not true.
Srom, this is a place for debate, this requires both sides to present arguments. Telling me that I am wrong and saying that you hope to see me one day in heaven is not an argument. I am not here to convince you to leave Christianity, if Christianity brings you comfort and peace of mind, then more power to you. But this is a debate site so you need to give reasons why you think your belief is true and why mine is false. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't be here.
I am only 14 yrs old I dont know a lot of information like you do. So when you say stuff like complicated stuff to me your confusing me. I dont know a lot of things that you say or post some of it is confusing. Your an adult I am asuming? You know tons of vocabulary more than I do and sometimes when you say stuff. I on the other hand do not know that much
That is good that you are 14. Do yourself a favor. Do not ever just rely on one source for information. Whether it be a book, internet, Paper, parents, tv or clergy. Go and investigate both sides. Checkout why people feel opposite of you. Us being different is a good thing. Always question, do not be a sheep who just follows the heard and believes all that you are told! Thank you for your opinion and input.
Don't sweat it. Debates are an excellent place to learn. If I am using any words that you don't know, go to Dictionary.com and look it up, this will be very helpful to you.
No one is perfect. No one can know everything about everything, and everybody believes in things that are false. The trouble is telling our true beliefs apart from our false beliefs. One way to do that, is to look at different points of view and to compare them based on which belief has more persuasive points. One problem that a lot of people have is that they will not admit when another belief is sometimes better. There is nothing wrong with being wrong about something. Life is after all, a learning process.
The things you learn guide the decisions you make in life. People who don't know very much, often make bad decisions.
Anybody who claims to have "The Truth" is not being honest with themselves. There have been many times that each of us has thought we were correct about something, only to later be proven wrong. Keep this in mind and you will be alright.
No Afterlife. Man i feel bad for all these athiests have all of you noticed that almost all the athiests before they die they start beleiving in god. God made you and your doubting his existence. tell me how we were made and how everything was made. there had to be some kind of intelligent life that made the world and made bacteria and all that stuff and that one thing is god
I do not know a single atheist who started believing in God before they died. I have known MANY! It is a wild and magical guess to believe there was an itelligence in the appearance of life on Earth etc. as aopposed to random chance. I feel bad for religious people just the moment before they completely die and realise there is no afterlife and they will rot in the ground.
