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Debate Info

165
194
Yes No
Debate Score:359
Arguments:242
Total Votes:406
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 Yes (105)
 
 No (125)

Debate Creator

lolzors93(3225) pic



There is no reason for the gay marriage movement....

There is no reason for the gay marriage movement to shout for equal rights. Homosexuals already do have the same rights as heterosexuals. How do they not have the same rights? Homosexuals cannot marry those of the same sex, and neither can heterosexuals. Homosexuals can marry those of the opposite sex, and so can heterosexuals. If they add any sort of "right," then all they will be doing is adding another right, not making things equal, since things are already equal. Spewing 'equal rights' is propaganda, echoing back to the civil rights era. If the gay rights movement wants to maintain any sort of intellectual integrity, then they need to start being logically consistent and honest.

Yes

Side Score: 165
VS.

No

Side Score: 194

I don't see any point to it ;)

Side: Yes
1 point

You have acknowledged in the past that they want benefits. At least come up with a clever joke. Throw in a pun.

Side: No

Gay marriage is bad for gays.

Gay women usually hook up with a partner who is more like themselves. They usually make around the same amount of money so they are truly equal partners. Equal partners usually don't have that much sex (lesbian bed death). Think of a heterosexual relationship where they are equal partners. The man vacuums and does dishes. Do you think the woman sees him as manly, desirable and sexy? No. Those type of heterosexual couples also have less sex. But, those equal relationships are usually stable (as long as neither one of them wants to get laid).

That is good for gay women. But the fact that they make roughly the same amount of money means that they have to pay a marriage penalty. Couples who make roughly the same amount of money, pay more in taxes then a couple who make the same amount of money but the incomes are wildly different. This is why gay marriage is bad for gay women.

Gay men on the other hand, like heterosexual men, desire exotic partners. Partners who are unlike themselves. There's usually a gap in their income. This is good for gay men because they don't pay the marriage penalty. But (and this is a big butt) sometimes the submissive partner starts resenting being the bitch in the relationship (gets all butt hurt) and the trouble starts. If the relationship breaks, currently, the dominant heterosexual partner pays the submissive partner through the nose. But the dominant gay partner gets to walk away with their income intact. If gay marriage goes through, you will see the spending power of gay men drop through the floor. Gay marriage impoverish gay men.

What gay couples need to do is fight for marriage rights, not marriage.

Marriage is an illusion created by lawyers in order to support the reality of divorce ;)

Side: No
4 points

I, for one, am tired of people trying to emotionally manipulate me by appealing to the historical civil rights movement, which has no place in equivalence to today's gay politics. Quite frankly, I might have been offended by this movement, had I actually been a victim of the discrimination before or during the historic civil rights movement.

Side: Yes
Cartman(18192) Disputed
4 points

What? Saying "equal rights" is a one time deal? Only one time period in history can ever try to get equal rights? I don't know how you connected this to black people, maybe I am missing something. I personally don't connect this to the civil rights movement at all.

Side: No
timber113(796) Disputed
4 points

Nah, but the injustice suffered from racial minorities greatly outweighed that of sexual minorities. I agree that rights should be fought for, but civil rights and gay rights are simply incomparable.

Side: Yes
pirateelfdog(2655) Disputed Banned
-1 points

This is ridiculous.

How does this have no equivalence? People are being discriminated against! Today, gay people are not getting equal rights as their straight counterparts, just as black people did not get equal rights compared to their white counterparts.

We had a history of hate against black people. We have a history of hate against gay people.

Black people were not allowed to take part in many events. Many organizations today will exclude people for being gay.

Blacks were put in jail for fighting for their rights, and may were killed in rallies and as slaves. Even blacks who were not slaves could be caught, enslaved, killed, tortured, etc. just for their race. Across the world, people are being put in jail or even executed for being gay.

THE REASON FOR THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT WAS FOR EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL, NOT JUST BLACK PEOPLE. Yes, it was lead by blacks, but it wasn't exclusive.

How are we emotionally manipulating you? By trying to appeal to common sense? By reminding you that great people who you respect have already fought against what you're fighting for?

Your argument here has no reasoning in it... you just say that it could offend you and you think people are manipulating you... what makes you think that? How is this movement against discrimination against gays any different from discrimination "before and during the historic civil rights movement?"

Side: No
lolzors93(3225) Disputed
1 point

How does this have no equivalence? People are being discriminated against! Today, gay people are not getting equal rights as their straight counterparts, just as black people did not get equal rights compared to their white counterparts.

How are they not getting equal rights? That was the point of what I was saying.

We had a history of hate against black people. We have a history of hate against gay people.

Hate has nothing to do with equal rights. It has more to do with morality and selfishness.

How are we emotionally manipulating you? By trying to appeal to common sense? By reminding you that great people who you respect have already fought against what you're fighting for?

Liberals like emotional appeals instead of facts, as can be demonstrated by your response.

Your argument here has no reasoning in it... you just say that it could offend you and you think people are manipulating you... what makes you think that? How is this movement against discrimination against gays any different from discrimination "before and during the historic civil rights movement?"

Did you in any way read the description of the debate? Read the instructions before hammering the first nail. Read the label before buying the car.

Side: Yes
2 points

The gay marriage movement is all about the abnormal invading the normal ... the profane invading the holy .. and in a Biblical sense ... the Harlot invading the Bride just as it indicates in Revelation 17 .. they suppress the truth in unrighteousness and they seek to force by law your acceptance of their perversion

Side: Yes
2 points

_People were born black.

You aren't born gay.

Side: Yes
cometa(-1) Disputed
1 point

I'm not sure which camp you fall into, so I'll leave you with two responses, and you can pick the most relevant.

If you think that being gay is a choice....

- When did you choose to be straight?

- Why would anyone choose to face oppression?

- What evidence do you have of this?

If you think it's nurture...

- How does it happen?

- Why does it happen?

- Why does it mean that people shouldn't have the same rights as others?

Side: No
pirateelfdog(2655) Disputed Banned
1 point

So if you aren't born gay, I assume you mean that you are born straight?

So, as babies, children are sexually attracted to people of the opposite gender? You are implying that sexuality is present from the first seconds of birth...

Side: No
2 points

People were born black.

You aren't born gay.

Side: Yes
Helix(78) Disputed
2 points

Yes they are, same as black people, tall people, idiots like you or people with blue eyes... Why did you pick your eye color?

Side: No
pirateelfdog(2655) Disputed Banned
1 point

I see. Because being gay is a choice, as you are implying, could you help show people how easy it is to change by becoming gay for a month? That would really make it so much easier for all of to understand that the ability to be straight or gay can be easily controlled by human beings.

Side: No

I, for one, am tired of people trying to emotionally manipulate me by appealing to the historical civil rights movement, which has no place in equivalence to today's gay politics. Quite frankly, I might have been offended by this movement, had I actually been a victim of the discrimination before or during the historic civil rights movement.

Side: Yes
2 points

I do not see no point in it. Homosexuality is an unusual activity.

Side: Yes
1 point

Being gay is a choice being black is not.

Side: Yes
Cartman(18192) Disputed
5 points

Michael Jackson proves you wrong. ;)

Side: No
libertyFTW(213) Disputed
1 point

Please explain to me with facts and analysis how it is possible for a gay person to wake up one morning and then say "Hmm I might try some pussy today" your logic is shit!

Side: No
1 point

It's a right, right-wingers need to get over it...............................................................................................................................................................................

Side: Yes
AngryGenX(463) Disputed
1 point

Where in the Constitution does it say you have a right to sex? Before 1973 when did the supreme court even hint that there may be a right to have sex? The government has been regulating sex since the founding of the country, still do today, and you want them to continue doing so in the future.

Side: No
Cartman(18192) Disputed
0 points

How has the government been regulating sex? What are you even talking about?

Side: Yes
1 point

I agree with what the OP has said. Marriage is between one man and one woman. If we change that, people could get married to anyone. You can see the trouble with that.

Side: Yes
Jace(4757) Disputed
1 point

No, actually, I cannot see the trouble with that at all.

Side: No
1 point

I am tired of the gays pushing their agenda. They need to stop. Their movements only angers conservatives. I like the way the Russians respond to their parades.

Side: Yes
0 points

Yes, why do conservatives like to be on the wrong side of history?

Side: Yes
7 points

Homosexuals already do have the same rights as heterosexuals. How do they not have the same rights? Homosexuals cannot marry those of the same sex, and neither can heterosexuals. Homosexuals can marry those of the opposite sex, and so can heterosexuals.

That might be a more valid point if heterosexuals had any interest whatsoever in marrying the same sex. But they don't want it. And homosexuals don't want to marry the opposite sex any more than that. It is an unfair, heteronormative philosophy you espouse.

They don't have the right to a marriage in which they would be satisfied. We do. So no, it IS a case of equal rights.

Side: No
SexyBanana(306) Disputed
2 points

I am sure they said the same when inter-racial marriage was illegal................................................

Side: Yes
MuckaMcCaw(1968) Clarified
2 points

I'm sorry, what are you disputing?

Side: Yes
Jc41218(1560) Disputed
1 point

Homosexuality is a sin and we shouldn't have to pay for them.

Side: Yes
cometa(-1) Disputed
4 points

Just think about it this way. Heterosexuals are ultimately responsible for the existence of homosexuals. Heterosexuals are the ones that keep giving birth to homosexuals, so maybe you should be complaining about heterosexuality...

Side: No
MuckaMcCaw(1968) Disputed
2 points

Frankly, we shouldn't have to pay for any marriage unless we offer.

But as long as marriage as an institution is supported by the government, the Constitution forbids us from using a strictly Christian definition of marriage.

Side: No
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Why don't you mind paying for the people who were married before, got divorced, then remarried?

Side: No
Helix(78) Disputed
1 point

I think about you as mentally ill subhuman that is inferior to me. Yet I have no needs to discriminate you.

Side: No
pirateelfdog(2655) Disputed Banned
-1 points

Ok! You get to pay for every same-sex wedding for the rest of time. I'll put it on your tab. ;)

Side: No
5 points

Before the religious argument springs up, because I know it will:

1) People are married under many religions and none

2) Marriage has benefits under the state, which are nothing to do with religion

3) Many marriages that are unacceptable in modern society are allowed under religions: i.e. rapist-victim marriages, adult-child marriages, forced marriages and polygamy.

"Marriage is a socially or ritually recognized union or legal contract between spouses that establishes rights and obligations between them, between them and their children, and between them and their in-laws." ~Cultural Anthropology: The Human Challenge (Well... wikipedia)

But more importantly, marriage is an oath between two (or more) people that they love each other and shall live together for the rest of their lives. If two people cannot do this for some legal reason, they are being denied equal rights unless marriage is completely outlawed within that nation.

Side: No
2 points

Could you answer me a question is marriage about love?

Side: No
lolzors93(3225) Disputed
3 points

No. Marriage is about reflecting the relationship of Christ and His church. Love is within this relationship, most assuredly, but to degrade this sacred bond is blasphemy of the most highest sort. That is what both gay marriage and unjustified divorce do.

Side: Yes
4 points

That is your religious opinion. People have the right to make their own choices.

Side: No
TheAshman(2299) Disputed
3 points

So marrying someone purely because you love them I assume in your eyes is a sin and I guess the clergyman that conducted the service committed a sin as well

Side: No
libertyFTW(213) Disputed
1 point

You forget the United States is not a Christian theocracy,we do not make laws based on religion or bigotry because we are a free country! Marriage is about commitment it has nothing to do with Jesus it is man made, it is a secular institution. Marriage has existed BCE so that mean God has nothing to do with marriage. You must also be one of the people who think sex is about procreation aren't you?

Side: No
Helix(78) Disputed
1 point

With that ill logic you should also protest against Muslim, Hindu, Atheist marriage, because they also don't give a shit about dead homeless carpenter...

Side: No
2 points

Even if we were you assume your premise to be true, that doesn't mean that people shouldn't also have the right to marry someone of the same sex.

The issue is actually about the right to marry the person you love, and about the legal recognition of same-sex relationships. These relationships are no different than those of opposite-sex couples, so why shouldn't there be the same right to get married and receive legal recognition and benefits of marriage?

Side: No

Gays have the same rights as straights. Same sex couples have the same right to get married as straights. It is wrong to force your religious opinions on other people.

Side: No
3 points

Is it wrong when Christians decided to make murder illegal it is a sin isn't it "forcing our religious opinions on people"

Side: Yes
Helix(78) Disputed
3 points

Murder was illegal long time before Christianity ...

Side: No
thousandin1(1932) Clarified
1 point

You imply that murder would be legal if not for christianity. Legislation around the world seems to suggest otherwise.

Legislation should be written with valid, rational reasons. "Because my religion says so" is not a valid, rational reason.

There are valid, non-religious benefits to carrying a number of laws that mirror those in the bible. Stealing, for example, is illegal, not because of 'thou shalt not steal' but because it is a violation of the rights of others. Murder is illegal, not because of 'thou shalt not steal,' but again due to it's nature of violating the rights of others.

Can you provide a valid, rational, non-religious reasoning for not allowing gay marriage? If you can't, then your only reason is "Because my religion says so" which is not only insufficient, but ILLEGAL to base legislation upon in the US.

Side: Yes
Jc41218(1560) Disputed
1 point

_Gays do have a choice to be gay. It comes from rebellion.

Side: Yes
Helix(78) Disputed
2 points

No, they do not. But your obvious mental incapacity kind of "justify" your ill idea.

Side: No
libertyFTW(213) Disputed
2 points

And where is your citation ?

Side: No
1 point

Uh no. People do not choose to be attracted to who they are attracted to. Another baseless assertion.

Side: No
NuclearFish(182) Disputed
0 points

1.) The Gay Rights Movement is in no way related to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s. Race and sexual orientation are not comparable as one chooses to act on sexual impulses and one does NOT choose to be born into a race. Furthermore, homosexual people aren't being lynched, they're being elevated.

2.) Marriage: http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/search/word,Marriage As intended during the foundation of this nation and onward. This is the 1828 dictionary of Noah Webster, it doesn't get more foundational than that. Man and woman, sorry.

3.) I do not disagree with homosexual couples being afforded the same tax breaks and employer benefits afforded to married homosexual couples pending a legal contract. I do, however, have a major problem with homosexual individuals forcing businesses and churches to forego their religious beliefs and recognize this union as a marriage or to perform services related strictly to the union of such homosexual couplings against their will or faith- as protected by the first amendment of our constitution.

4.) Ironically, the APA does not consider homosexuality a mental disorder and yet it fits the bill by their definition as homosexuality renders the biological process of reproduction inoperable without external influence (artificial insemination, for example). Also, it should be noted that the APA changed its stance on homosexuality as a result of pressure from the movement, NOT scientific breakthroughs or evaluation.

http://www.saybrook.edu/newexistentialists/posts/05-11-12

5.) Slightly off-topic, I believe that transsexual individuals are suffering from an identity crisis that may be brought on by delusions, hormonal imbalance, or simply bad parenting and should not be treated as the sex they are masquerading as (i.e. can't use the opposite sex's restroom). These persons are akin to people who believe they are super heroes and are given a cape instead of proper psychological evaluation and treatment.

Side: Yes
2 points

Thats a load of crap. There is nothing wrong with being gay. Merely not reproducing does not a disorder make.

Side: No
Cartman(18192) Disputed
2 points

1) I wasn't aware this was happening.

2) You want to deny someone something because a dictionary says so?

3) No one is forcing churches to marry them.

4) When a bunch of sane people tell you they are being considered as having a mental disorder, it kind of is a reevaluation.

Side: No
Jace(4757) Disputed
1 point

1. Prove that sexual orientation is a choice.

2. We also practiced legal slavery and denied women the right to vote when this nation was founded. Tradition does not make something correct.

3. Legally recognized marriages would not and never have forced any religious institution to marry couples against its beliefs.

4. The APA does not consider homosexuality a mental disorder because it is not a mental disorder. Reproduction has nothing to do with a mental illness diagnosis. Your source substantiates none of your claims.

5. Prove any of that.

Side: No
1 point

This is so misguided that it borders on trolling. But that's what I expect from the privileged majority of straight, white human beings.

Side: No
AngryGenX(463) Disputed
2 points

Haha, should we be made to apologize for being privileged? I'm sorry nature makes us capable of reproducing, having stable relationships, having gender aspects that complement each other, and that homosexuals choose to reject all this. Oh if only there was something I could do to make it all ok.

Side: Yes
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Oh if only there was something I could do to make it all ok.

Leave them alone.

Side: No
1 point

I'm a white person who wants liberty, truth, and justice for all, not just for heteronormative cisgendered white conservative rich males age 20 and over. Im pro I don't care unless someone is hurt. I just wanna live and afford the same right to others. I give so little a shit about skin color that it doesn't even register on my give a fuck radar because I believe that we are all one human race.

Side: Yes
pakicetus(1455) Disputed
1 point

white

Whites only have privilege in countries made by, ruled by, and/or occupied mostly by whites.

A white person has no privilege in, say, Japan, or China.

Side: Yes

Yes there is. Gays have the same rights as other people. Stop forcing your religious opinion on other people.

Side: No

The dilemma has been solved.

It is now 2015 and the U.S. Supreme Court has declared Gay Marriage to be the law of the land.

Side: No