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Today's Climate Denialists Are Tomorrow's Today's Hitlers
When we look back today on the great monsters of history, names like Hitler and Stalin tend to be tossed about. These are men whose actions as the leaders of nations were directly responsible for millions of deaths, and caused great suffering for millions more.
But when we look to the future and ask ourselves who shall be seen a century from now as the great monsters of history, it is neither the mongers of war nor the conductors of genocide whom I see holding that loftiest position in the annals of infamy, as much as such people continue to exert their evil influences today.
Instead, some of the perhaps friendly faces of American media and politics seem to me the most likely candidates for condemnation in future historical reflection, specifically those advocating climate denialism. Their words and obstructionism is now and will continue increasingly to result in unfathomable devastation.
You see, when Trump so much as farts in front of the wrong nose the world hears 'Trump is the devil' but when the Chinese government sanctions genocide of adult Muslims in an entire village and take in the children to brainwash them with state propaganda, it's censored so the world hears not a word of it (or at least not many 'care' that it's out there in quiet corners of the media).
Not just CO2 but also CO and especially hydrocarbon variants. You don't understand because you don't know what is being taxed. They won't tax you for breathing but for your carbon footprint based on emissions of fuel from car, factory, house appliances and such.
I said, yeah it probably will be because the actual Hitlers of today are being able to hide.
But you are one of the Hitlers of today. Hitler the Catholic killed Jews and blamed the Jews. Netanyahu the Jew kills Muslims and blames the Muslims. Same difference.
Actually you have it backwards. Hamas are doing it to their own people
I don't have it backwards. You are just insane and that is why you blame Hamas every time an Israeli soldier abuses a civilian or shoots a kid. You are very specifically espousing the ideology of an abuser. That is, you are watching people being hurt and blaming a party other than the one which is hurting them. It is classic psychopathic reasoning.
All true leftists eat a diet comprised only of raw meat.
Ah, well thanks for the admission that Mao was never a true leftist.
Cheng summed up some of Mao's requests: mainly vegetarian, occasionally meat, fresh, light and healthy. The foods were rich in protein, minerals, vitamins, vegetable fiber and juice
Because understanding the difference between biology and gender roles is worse than actively sabotaging efforts to prevent the decimation of the human race. What fucked up priorities you've got.
It's always a laugh listening to Liberal environmentalists telling us the sky will fall if we do not destroy our way of life based on their say so.
Why would any sane human being believe people who lied about Global cooling, Global warming, etc. etc.
Do you know the saying "cry wolf"?
I have been listening to these fossil fuel hating activists crying wolf over and over. What happens in the story "cry wolf"? People stop believing the person who continually cries wolf, because his claims never come true.
Do you want to be taken seriously? When the Left admits their fossil fuel hating agendas, and how they have lied to us many times before, we might actually start listening once more.
Why would any sane human being believe people who lied about Global cooling, Global warming, etc. etc.
Why would anyone take the word of a bunch of right wingers with oil stocks trying to protect their profits instead of scientists trying to protect the environment. Why would anyone jump to the conclusion that science is "lying" when you KNOW deep down inside that you haven't actually researched the subject sufficiently and without bias.
You don't KNOW the science, and you won't take the time to learn it. You are content with your devout partisanism, which compels you to pretend that a bunch of rich guys who are literally profiting from fossil fuels and have a clear incentive to deny climate change are smarter than the 90% of scientists who agree on climate change and don't have any stocks or shares in the "environmentalism industry".
Climate change is not a left wing conspiracy to take fossil fuels away from you, climate change denial is a right wing conspiracy theory promoted by people who BLATANTLY have an incentive to deny it.
Both sides have an incentive to push their agendas.
Never mind what the left says or the right says, before you even CONSIDER who to believe you must first be coming from a place that cares more about the planet than the profits of those invested in fossil fuels. If you do not have that mentality, than you are automatically going to be in the wrong. Forget that climate change is even a thing for moment and ask yourself deep down which is more important in a vacuum.
Now that you have done that, reconsider whether you will take the scientists more seriously or the old rich guy with oil stocks.
I asked myself deep down to my toes after climbing into my shop vac.
After witnessing both sides my entire life, I believe those on the Right are much more honest and rational when dealing with these types of issues.
The Left is made up of clinical liars with no moral conscience to keep them from telling lies. It's all politics to them.
You swallow their constant hate the Rich rhetoric even though these politicians are ALL rich!
Of course energy companies want to make money to stay in business, just like every other business in the world. That does not make them corrupt! It makes them intelligent and because of their intelligence, we all have jobs.
Funny how people like you deny the big money being made off the abortion trade. Never a peep!
I want you to look inside yourself and see the corruption in politics, and thereby the corruption in special interest groups funding these politicians. That includes environmentalists and Scientists who receive more funding from politicians if they come up with the Scientific facts the Left wants.
After witnessing both sides my entire life, I believe those on the Right are much more honest and rational when dealing with these types of issues.
The Left is made up of clinical liars with no moral conscience to keep them from telling lies. It's all politics to them.
Everything above is a sweeping generalization and shows nothing but partisan bias. As if there are no honest people on the left and no dishonest ones on the right. Of course, even you don't honestly think that but that's how you make it sound and you are close to actually believing it because you only listen to one side's arguments.
You swallow their constant hate the Rich rhetoric even though these politicians are ALL rich!
I don't get my information from politicians or mainstream news.
Of course energy companies want to make money to stay in business, just like every other business in the world.
The problem is that they care more about their profits than they do the earth, so many of them are willing to promote and fund lies that make their industry seem less harmful and downplay the need for alternative sources of energy.
Funny how people like you deny the big money being made off the abortion trade. Never a peep!
There are no "people like me" that you can box me in with. I have never denied that.
I want you to look inside yourself and see the corruption in politics, and thereby the corruption in special interest groups funding these politicians.
I know, and it exists on both sides of the spectrum.
That includes environmentalists and Scientists who receive more funding from politicians if they come up with the Scientific facts the Left wants.
It's a lot harder to fake science than it is to simply deny it and you should never take the word of people who clearly have interests which conflict with the science and have no science backing up their position over the word of scientists. You can be skeptical of climate change all you want, but at least have the intellectual honesty to understand that the Koch Brothers and other such entities are not climatologists and do not have a single shred of concern for anything other than money when they support the position that OH SO CONVENIENTLY would lead to them not being replaced or hindered as they profit from fossil fuels.
I applaud you, and respect you, for trying to teach and get people to think outside their own perceived limitations or boundaries, Aether. It is a noble and upright intention. And it would be well spent and produce a beneficial outcome, in most cases.
But unfortunately, this is not one of them. You are wasting your energy and your time.
FromWithin has been gifted with descriptions and explanations numerous times about how anthropogenic climate change functions, why it is very important, what the difference between global warming and climate change is, what value science has as a tool for determining the validity of an idea, the difference between a theory and a hypothesis, the moral and affective reasons and motivations for wanting to decrease and eventually stop fossil fuel use, and the various special interest groups that fund the denialism.
He does not care for any of it.
FromWithin will continue, in this little tiny corner of the internet, repeating the same arguments that I have already dispelled and explained away, to newcomers or other people willing to take his bait. The truth is that nomatter how much evidence you present, how much logic you use, how much passion you inject, how much you plead or pander or entertain him or humour him, it is a futile endeavour.
I applaud you, and respect you, for trying to teach and get people to think outside their own perceived limitations or boundaries, Aether.
Don't make me laugh. Aether isn't trying to educate anybody. He just wants to feel intellectually superior to them. You are praising one of the site's worst trolls. He's been banned twice just this week.
May be the case, but he is certainly showing a profound patience and seems to want to actually make the case rationally, in this instance. And what he says in this instance is correct, which is significantly more important than anything else.
The Earth has risen in temperature by an average of approximately 1 degree in 200 years. As we pump more greenhouse gasses out, that temperature rise gets faster, so that in another 150 years, we may be another degree warmer. This might not seem like much to you, but it is actually an unnaturally fast rise in temperature.
2000 years ago, there was a story written down about a man who had been flogged and then crucified. The flogging whips tore welts in his skin, and just like today, a man who is flogged will suffer welts in his skin. In 2000 years, human skin has not evolved to endure hard lashings.
If the temperature increase continues -- even if it doesn't speed up -- and just continues at a steady 1 degree every two hundred years, the Earth will be on average, ten degrees warmer, in another 2000 years time. So, in South Africa, where in 2013 the record temperature was 50 degrees celsius, in 2000 years time, it would be 60 celsius. In 4000 years (still not enough time for skin to evolve any significant changes), it would be 70 celsius. At 70 celsius, skin can endure 3rd degree burns in SECONDS.
What makes you think that if skin has not evolved in 2000 years time to resist scourging, that it will have evolved in another 2000 years to resist burning?
The fact is, this level of warming is extremely, extremely fast. It does not give nature time to catch up, and because of the damage it does to ecosystems, if we let it continue, the Earth's ability to offset climate changes and rebalance climate, will be utterly undone.
1 degree in 200 years might not seem like much, but it is astronomically high by comparison to what climate change would look like, had humans never found fossil fuels in the ground.
You just said... "so that in another 150 years, we may be another degree warmer."
We MAY be another degree warmer? What if we are a degree cooler? These fossil fuel hating environmentalists have been repeatedly wrong about their predictions!
They take short term climate changes, and use it to push their fossil fuel hating agendas. This is classic deception and exaggeration to make people like you jump on board with their agendas.
Thankfully, the grown ups in the world see through their politics.
Leftist Politicians would have us paying three times as much for electricity, with millions of lost jobs, on a THEORY that temperatures might go up a degree in another 150 years.
I thought many on the Left are screaming our world will collapse in just 12 years? Are you saying that this one degree increase in temperature will devastate the Earth in 12 years?
Do you agree with their hysteria? If not... WHY NOT? You would have us throw away our way of life on their say so.
Have you noticed that our weather prognosticators can not even get the weather correct in a couple days, let alone 150 YEARS!
For the MILLIONTH TIME, those of us who have seen the corruption from fossil fuel haters, do not deny the possibility of climate change problems from greenhouse gasses.
What we will never accept are the draconian actions forced upon the world by environmentalist activists who have been screaming global cooling just a few decades ago!
When you grow and learn to stop believing fake news, you might understand the motives behind the scare tactics.
I am even seeing the fake news and extremism on the weather channel. They sensationalize every single storm we have, and blame in on Climate change. GET REAL!
This hysteria does not stem from Scientists. It stems from the Left and their big money environmental groups.
We on the Right will gladly look at common sense rational changes we can make to help reduce greenhouse gasses. We will NEVER believe one word out of the Left pushing their fossil fuel hating agendas.
You just said... "so that in another 150 years, we may be another degree warmer."
We MAY be another degree warmer?
I say MAY, not because I doubt that we will be warmer: we will be. I say "may", because it may be a degree, or two degrees, or half a degree.
Leftist Politicians would have us paying three times as much for electricity, with millions of lost jobs, on a THEORY that temperatures might go up a degree in another 150 years
Actually, it isn't politicians, generally, who are pushing climate agendas. Most US politicians don't. It is scientists, who earn very little, and profit nearly nil from climate friendly environmental policies. At any rate, in most countries, the lobbying laws prohibit gifts from lobbyists. In most countries (except perhaps the USA), no politician would benefit from climate friendly laws.
Have you noticed that our weather prognosticators can not even get the weather correct in a couple days, let alone 150 YEARS!
Weather is not the same as climate. Weather is the daily event: rain or sunshine. Climate is about trend, and we see the trend. The Earth is warming, undisputedly.
A few decades ago the trend was cooling! REMEMBER?
Yet you are going to sit here and tell us all that you know for sure the climate will be warmer in 150 YEARS?
Those were the very same Scientists telling us that we were headed towards global cooling!
Please learn to grasp the power of politics, and how it can shape the narrative of Scientists.
Scientists are men just like you and I, and they can be as corrupt as any other person on the planet.
Do you actually think that because a person goes to College to become a scientist, that he all of a sudden becomes this bastion of moral character and honesty, void of any corruption? Funny how you have such admiration for that particular vocation.
A few decades ago the trend was cooling! REMEMBER?
Show me a peer reviewed paper that a few decades ago said the Earth was cooling in average temperature.
Yet you are going to sit here and tell us all that you know for sure the climate will be warmer in 150 YEARS?
Yes. If we continue the trend, it will be. Look, again, greenhouse gasses trap heat. We continually increase the amount of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere. This is why the average temperature of Earth keeps exponentially rising. Thus, if nothing changes, it will be warmer in 150 years.
Those were the very same Scientists telling us that we were headed towards global cooling!
Please learn to grasp the power of politics, and how it can shape the narrative of Scientists
Again, show me a peer reviewed journal article or a paper that says the Earth was cooling, 15 or 20 or 25 years ago.
Scientists are men just like you and I, and they can be as corrupt as any other person on the planet
Oh, you and I are very different on any scale of corruption. At any rate, the scientific method works. That's why we use it.
Do you actually think that because a person goes to College to become a scientist, that he all of a sudden becomes this bastion of moral character and honesty, void of any corruption?
No, but to be published, he or she does become a person that has to abide by scientific standards. Peer reviewed articles are by virtue of the restraints necessary to publish one, heavily scrutinized.
Look it comes down to a simple truth. I read scientific journals to get my information, seeing with my own academic eyes how they are scrutinized, how all points are backed up, and how their views are given room to be discredited should other evidence arise.
You, by contrast, believe a book written by shepherds in the darkest recesses of civilization several thousand years ago, whose claims have been time and again disproven.
What ark?
What exodus?
What flat Earth?
What six day creation?
You are as far from an authority on facts and science, as the bible you worship is.
The Left has been caught a hundred time in fake news and lies when it comes to their environmental predictions.
No they haven't. You just accuse them of lying every time they make a mistake because you're crazy and that's how crazy people operate. You don't even understand what the left is because you're childishly naive and don't comprehend that the political landscape in America has been intentionally narrowed. You spew hatred every waking moment about a political party which runs almost parallel to your own on the world stage. To be honest it is just kind of depressing having to share a world with you, even if you are thousands of miles away.
Why would anyone take the word of a bunch of right wingers with oil stocks trying to protect their profits instead of scientists trying to protect the environment.
You can convince evangelist idiots of absolutely anything as long as it vilifies the left. You're talking about the guys who brought us Pizzagate, the story that Democrat leaders were secretly taking children into the basement of a pizzeria which nobody bothered to check actually had a basement. It didn't.
I got a good laugh out of the initial comment, now... on this one... carbon emissions are definitively a problem. So, one thing is politicians taking advantage of stuff, taking out of proportion and so on... and it is other thing to deny that there is a problem there.
I never denied there is probably something going on, but it is not the sky is falling fanatical rhetoric coming from the Left.
It's not just politicians, it is also Left wing Scientists pushing an agenda. To believe proven liars this time is an absolute waste of time.
I believe there are intelligent non biased people in this world who will deal with any problem in a non political fossil fuel hating way. I believe nothing from the Left.
