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27
64
Evolution Ape Kill Human
Debate Score:91
Arguments:39
Total Votes:106
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 Evolution (16)
 
 Ape Kill Human (25)

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Tricky Question For Conservatives: Why Has Civilisation Continuously Become More Liberal?

The one constant in the development of human civilisation is that, over time, it has gradually become more liberal. Compare today's values of gay marriage, tolerance and freedom of religion with those of just a few hundred years ago where we were hunting witches and publicly chopping people's heads off. Even the staunchest Conservative must admit it is a valid point. 

So then, is it fair to say that liberalism represents evolution? While Conservatism represents the rejection of evolution? I think this would be a fair assessment given the above facts.

Evolution

Side Score: 27
VS.

Ape Kill Human

Side Score: 64
3 points

No we haven't.

Take a look around at the intolerance and violence in the world and you'll recognize the truth contained in the quote from the French philosopher Alfonse Karr;- 'the more things change, the more they stay the same'.

We like to think that we have become more sophisticated and tolerant as a species, but we haven't.

Side: Evolution
2 points

Civilization became more liberal through history for the same reason that religions moved in history from requiring sacrifices to lots of angry gods to instead just loving on behalf of a single loving god... Love wins. And love wins because people vote with their feet. They promote societies where more and more people can get along and grow and thrive, and they burn the societies that from time to time burn them for no good reason.

Conservative Christians who think someday modern societies will all march in bootstep with hardcore Chrisitian ideology forget that the whole reason Christianity succeeded was because it wasn't just a bunch of dicks in power telling the masses you better do this or that or we're going to smite you. Love won then and love will win in the present.

And in terms of liberalism, it is inherent that the people staring down their oppressors get lumped in with the liberals and the people doing all the oppressing are lumped in with the conservatives. You can't be uptight about how other people are and not be a conservative. And you can't be on the fringe just trying to survive and not be a liberal.

Side: Evolution
FromWithin(8241) Disputed
3 points

Yeh, today the Liberal has progressed to the place where Liberals support testing and killing viable Special Need's babies for merely being different and diverse.

Spew your hypocrisy of how it was worse centuries ago to someone who has no intellect to see through your inhumanity. If evolution were true, we are now seeing de-evolution because when it comes to humanity this Progressive age is worse than it has ever been.

Side: Ape Kill Human
Grenache(6053) Disputed
1 point

Demonstrating you are a single issue character which speaks and acts 100% along party lines. Abortion had nothing to do with the topic above, and your abortion smears have already been addressed by myself and others in a dozen separate debates on this site.

Luckily, even during the moments when society is at its most conservative, the vast majority of people still haven't drank as much poison Koolaid as you have.

Side: Evolution
2 points

The short answer is that the development of free market capitalism is the greatest driver of increases in freedom because it is the greatest driver of the creation of wealth. The prosperity that results from freer markets acts as a reward (per operant conditioning) to encourage the general continuation and development of free market capitalism.

The long answer is that some of the question depends on what exactly we mean by liberal and how strict we are about continuously.

If we think of liberal primarily (not exclusively) in terms of economic freedom and opportunity to exercise it, and continuously in terms of a broad trend over time, then what we end up seeing is the effects of the free market.

The movement from absolutist rulers (who essentially own everything) and theocracies (which place strict demands and restrictions on economic behavior) toward freer access to markets, and more freedom regarding behavior in those markets.

Over time, those places that allowed more freedom to make and sell, tended to prosper as a result of creating wealth, rather that invading a neighbor (for example) or oppressing a populace, and simply hijacking their wealth. More importantly, the more wealth individuals were able to keep out of the hands of the chief, monarch, state, or priests, the more they had to reinvest. This gradually developed into capitalism, which was a major step forward into personal freedom.

Obviously, cleptocratic regimes and institutions slow the process (or throw it into reverse) as does heavy taxation.

The stimulus-behavior-reward loop tends to encourage societies to generally move toward free(r) market capitalism, because that is how nations and people are able to prosper. The reason many parts of the world are so poor in contrast with others is that they have shorter capitalist histories and have less developed free market institutions. Prosperity is both an effect, and then a cause of economic freedom in the local economy, and correlates with the degree to which people can keep their profits from the grasp of the state.

Sure there have been major steps backward, such as Communist China, and the Soviet Union, but these devolved ultimately to permit more economic freedom, and as they have done so, the people and their nations as a whole have prospered.

At the same time we can contrast the development of free market capitalism with monarchial systems such as Saudi Arabia, where the majority of the wealth is owned by the monarch. Despite the citizenry being paid stipends by the government, the people have very little freedom to do with it what they want because of the interference of Islamic law. This stifles the economic development.

We see a stark contrast between Saudi Arabia between both Dubai in the UAE, and Qatar. In both, the religious limits are less strict, and as a result, these places prosper, and build wealth among a much larger base than just the royalty.

Again, the prosperity-freedom feedback loop encourages more and more freedom in the region because the freer the markets, the richer the nation.

Side: Evolution
1 point

You're talking about classical liberalism, which is different from the liberal democratic party who in general actually hold several positions antithetical to classical liberalism. Also, the American right wing are more classically liberal than the left on several issues; freedom of speech, gun ownership, laissez faire economics, individualism, libertarianism etc.

Side: Evolution
JustIgnoreMe(4290) Clarified
1 point

Actually the description would seem to indicate that the poster was referring to the latter.

gay marriage, tolerance and freedom of religion, evolution, etc.

Side: Evolution
WinstonC(1225) Clarified
2 points

"gay marriage, tolerance and freedom of religion"

These are libertarian values which in turn are classical liberal values.

"evolution"

If you're saying that the U.S. right wing is less accepting of evolution than the left then I'm sure you're correct. However, evolution is a scientific theory and has nothing to do with the political philosophy of liberalism (as far as I can see). I'm not quantifying which party is more classically liberal, I'm simply stating that the "Liberal Democrats" are not classically liberal.

Side: Evolution
1 point

A liberal will become a conservative in 20 years without changing a single view!

Side: Evolution
0 points

Hello S,

Over time, people are becoming more educated. In the main, educated people become liberal.

excon

Side: Evolution
1 point

This argument is the equivalent of saying "people raised in church are more prone to be religious". Yes, if young people are preached a belief system, they are more apt to adhere to it.

By educated, what you don't mean is smarter. Conservatives make more money on average than liberals. It isn't because liberals are smarter... more indoctrinated by liberal professors? Yes. Smarter? No.

We also both know that these "educated" liberals do everything in their power to put libs into colleges and keep the smart Asians out. That's because they really aren't that smart and know they can't keep up.

Supporting Evidence: Liberal colleges discrimination towards Asians (www.cnn.com)
Side: Ape Kill Human

Civilization hasn't become more liberal. Name one Asian, African, South American, or Middle Eastern country thst isn't nationalist to the extreme. And don't forget India and Russia.

Now, seeing that 95% of the world is not liberal in any way, shape or form, explain how the "world is liberal". Then explain why the other illiberal 95% should have your progressive religion rammed down their throats.

Then, explain to us how Muslims, who are ultra conservative, being the new political allies of the left, is making the West "more liberal".

Finally, look at Brexit and Trump. Seriously. Take a good, long, hard look.... then join the rest of us in the real world on planet Earth. There are more people in China alone than there are liberals on the entire planet.

Side: Ape Kill Human
2 points

Liberalism exists because it enables large cities. You can't have large cities if people are not tolerant. However, large cities are not environmentally sound. It is retarded to support something that is not environmentally sustainable. Therefore, liberalism is a disease. Liberalism is a mental disorder. ;)

Side: Ape Kill Human

Look at this map. Civilization isn't "becoming more liberal".

http://www.islam101.com/images/MuslimDistributionmap.jpg

Side: Ape Kill Human
JustIgnoreMe(4290) Clarified
1 point

How is a single undated map with no population numbers supposed to be used to compare how many people are liberal now compared to some time in the past?

Side: Evolution
OmegaPan(710) Disputed
1 point

There are no liberals in the Muslim world. Islam is conservative.

Side: Evolution

Now look at this map. Civilization isn't "becoming more liberal".

http://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/election-2016-county-map.png

Side: Ape Kill Human

The one constant in the development of human civilisation is that, over time, it has gradually become more liberal.

Actually the world is becoming more religious (look it up), and secular people aren't having many kids.

Compare today's values of gay marriage, tolerance and freedom of religion

95% of the world has no idea what you are talking about and rejects your notions.

with those of just a few hundred years ago where we were hunting witches and publicly chopping people's heads off.

They are still doing both in Africa and the Middle East. It's normal practice point of fact.

Even the staunchest Conservative must admit it is a valid point.

Or stare at you with a blank stare.

So then, is it fair to say that liberalism represents evolution? While Conservatism represents the rejection of evolution?

Conservatism is actually a natural human instinct of survival. Liberalism has to be taught and brainwashed into a mind. Liberalism suppresses the Darwinian instincts of packs, tribes, and suspicion of those not in the pack or tribe. It's how our forefathers survived. Liberals want these survival instincts to magically vanish.

To attempt to mix and meld conflicting and clashing cultures and religions and ideologies is to reject Darwinian thought all together. Fear and suspicion of different tribes and packs is why our species survived in the first place. Blindly welcoming other pack and tribe members into your space got you killed.

Side: Ape Kill Human

Civilization is becoming the most blood thirsty we have ever seen. Close to a million innocent unborn lives killed every year in America alone!

The Democrat Party and those on the Left support testing for and KILLING viable Special Need's babies for merely being diverse and different!

Conservatives and Christians are about the only ones still possessing the humanity to have tolerance for all innocent lives, even if they do not look or sound as quote "normal" as everyone else.

I would totally disagree with your notion that civilization is progressing. The so called tolerance from the Left is a complete lie.

The only tricky thing here is Progressives trying to explain their inhumanity. They can't explain it and is why they seldom reply to people who show their inhumanity. They don't like being reminded of their true selfish hypocritical nature.

Side: Ape Kill Human
1 point

The world is actually safer than ever. ref

Abortion rates are at the lowest since the Roe v Wade decision. ref

Side: Evolution
FromWithin(8241) Disputed
1 point

ROFLOL, over 700,000 abortions in America last year alone. If you call that progressing, wow!

What I call progress is when a person put's the life of another over their own convienence, and if you bring up extreme case abortions, it's ignore time. I'm talking about the vast majority of abortions for convienence.

Side: Ape Kill Human