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Debate Info

4
7
Veganism Heterogeneous
Debate Score:11
Arguments:9
Total Votes:14
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 Veganism (3)
 
 Heterogeneous (6)

Debate Creator

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Veganism as compared to common diet

Veganism as a diet is strictly against the consumption of meats and animal-based or derived products. Its adherents promote it as healthier, more moral, or as necessary for spiritual enlightenment. Any vegans or vegetarians on this website are invited to argue their case for why they prefer it.

Contrasting it is a heterogeneous, or common, diet in which we eat that which is available and with greater variety. Animal products, vegetable products, fungi, are all consumed without moral concern. It may actually be just as healthy as a vegan diet, depending on how careful you are in balancing what you eat.

I created this debate after I read some good replies in a former debate about vegetarianism. I thought however that the topic could be better written, given that vegetarianism isn't strictly a vegetable-only diet which complicates matters if you factor in animal-based products in either position. If their authors are not opposed, I will take the liberty to copy some of those replies into this debate.

Veganism

Side Score: 4
VS.

Heterogeneous

Side Score: 7
2 points

yes it is a diet, but not a good one in my opinion.......................................................................................

Supporting Evidence: rta cabinets (www.cabinetsdirectrta.com)
Side: veganism
1 point

From jessald:

Yes, a vegetarian diet is the best choice -- assuming "best" accounts for moral superiority.

It is wrong to inflict pain on a sentient being.

...

Objectivity is not important. Universality is important. We can all agree that the satisfaction of our preferences is good.

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Meh. I have doubts that a capitalist culture could ever treat animals properly. Maybe some kind of uber-regulatory scheme could make everything work fine, but I seriously doubt it. It seems better to avoid the uncertainty, keep it simple, and just avoid meat.

Side: veganism
2 points

My prior post:

While a vegan diet can compare to an animal-based one nutritionally (See: link) I would argue that it cannot successfully replicate many of the flavours and textures that a lover of food might enjoy, further I would argue that the taste of certain animal-based dishes, and indeed most of the flavours we obtain from animals' meats, oils, secretions, and bones are worth saving in our culture's food preparations.

For example, in soups the most important component is the base. The base is most often a stock made using bones and marrow with vegetables. You can use only vegetables in the base but you will be missing a vital savoury component. Some cooks use demi glace in place of, or along with, the base. It isn't as simple as using soy or mushrooms for the missing savoury component, because these products have their own flavours. You are at this point trying substitution.

In gravy and sauces, a vital ingredient is the butter, lard or meat drippings (fat). If you use only a vegetable-based oil, you will be sorely disappointed with the result as compared to its animal-based equivalent (also, NEVER use margarine in a roux). The next component is either stock prepared as mentioned in the preceding paragraph, milk, or another ingredient like tomato sauce. In the vast majority of cases you will need a bone-based stock.

In sweet baked goods texture is often heavily influenced by butter, margarine may act as a substitute but it produces its own texture effect (usually chewier, or fluffier/softer). In certain goods you CANNOT substitute (anyone who has made a croissant for example knows this) because it is a matter of chemistry. Eggs are another vital ingredient that is very tricky to emulate the chemistry of by substitute, but from my experience there are some clever substitutes that may solve certain problems that eggs are required for in the dish (such as using starch, or guar gum-containing marketed substitute, to create some degree of binding). If you're making a meringue, an inferiour substitute is singed liquid marshmallow.

As a matter of meat itself, it is very difficult to emulate meat so that it doesn't taste like a substitute. This is the holy grail, as a matter of fact, for the vegan chef. For example, if you wish to emulate ground meat it isn't as difficult as a cut of steak. This is because ground meat has most of its texture stripped away, so it's merely a matter of creating firmness, savoury flavour, and the proper mouthfeel. To this end many vegan chefs have successfully emulated ground meat, which is laudible, using mushrooms, yeast and soy extracts, cereals and grains, and varieties of tofu. What hasn't been done is the full emulation of a steak or cut of meat, because for obvious reasons the texture simply cannot be replicated in a kitchen. I should add that by sheer fortune the sulfur-shelf mushroom, otherwise known as the chicken of the woods, is supposedly a very convincing substitute to poultry in taste and texture. I cannot confirm this through personal experience, as the only time I found one, it was too old and grew too high on an oak tree for me to use.

Candies are the final item I wish to mention. It is clear that one may obtain easily dark chocolate that is free of animal products, indeed only poor-quality dark chocolate has milkfat, however milk chocolate itself requires animal products, as does fudge. I am not convinced that one can easily substitute these ingredients without compromising the product. Perhaps the product most likely to suffer are truffles and other heavy cream-based candies, as the filling requires a fat that gives a silky texture and cream seems to work best for this.

Side: Heterogeneous
1 point

Does this debate address specifically the health of the consumer, or are moral aspects to be considered as well?

Side: Heterogeneous
1 point

Does this debate address specifically the health of the consumer, or are moral aspects to be considered as well?

Given that it is ultimately a matter of preference on either side, the debate may be framed as anyone wishes to convince others that their position is reasonable. If you are deeply moral in your convictions, for example, you may appeal to morality or if you are utilitarian you may appeal to demand of limited resources.

Side: Heterogeneous
0 points

Homie dis 2010, ain't nobody gonna read dat shit, knowuddemsayin? you damn post is too damn long...kids got ADD these days and i ain't referrin' to math knowwuddemsayin? Shiiiii..chill on dem words nigga, you paragrafs too long dammit.

Side: veganism
1 point

From zombee:

In the right quantities, meat is good for you. We evolved to eat and digest it for a reason. Unfortunately, the average American diet consists of entirely too much meat, especially red meat, and not enough of other food groups, so it's deceptively easy to say a vegetarian diet is clearly healthier. But this is not necessarily so; vegetarians who do not carefully monitor their intake of protein and other nutrients can suffer from malnutrition. It happens that people who have chosen a vegetarian diet are typically more attentive to what they consume, making them, on average, healthier than someone who hasn't made any specific choices about their eating.

A diet philosophy is only as good as the effort one is willing to put into it. Someone who eats meat regularly but sparingly, limits oils and sugars, and ensures they eat enough of the other food groups is probably going to be comparably healthy to a vegetarian or vegan with the same commitment to eating well.

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I included some sources that discuss why a diet that includes some meat is preferable or at the very least comparable to a pure vegetarian diet. A lot of it has to do with calorie and protein consumption; meat has more of those by volume than many other foods, and it is easier to digest than other sources of protein and other vitamins, like beans, broccoli, cabbage, etc. Plenty of people, doctors and nutritionists included, are starting to include cow's milk on this list. Remember I am not advocating that people not eat a diet composed mostly of nuts, fruits, vegetables, grains, and other animal fats.

http://www.weightlossforall.com/protein_content_from_good_source.htm

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/top-ten-protein-sources/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article6891329.ece

Side: Heterogeneous
1 point

There is no such thing as a vegan. It is all lies... Also eating meat is part of the food chain. If bitches can't respect that then stuff them/

Side: Heterogeneous