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What Purpose Did The Cross and Resurrection Accomplish?
Whether you believe or don't believe can you explain the purpose of this story. What is its meaning. We know to bring Salvation, but what is the Mystery behind its Design, what work is thought to have occurred through this story?
Please be a little serious and thoughtful, I want to know what you think was the reason behind it all.
Even if you don't believe in it, tell me, what is the meaning? What is meant to have occured?
To reach the unreachable, and then provide a sacrifice to show that God Cares about the human condition. so much so that he took the time to live it and die it.
The Cross and the Resurrection is the center point of the ENTIRE bible. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So to answer your question The Cross and Resurrection is the reason we can have eternal life with Christ. That's what it Accomplished.
The literal purpose of the cross was a form of torture and crucifixion, causing the poor person tied or nailed to it to meet death in a brutal and terrible way.
The spiritual version is vastly different though the roots are near the same. An intersection between Gods love and justice. Depends on which version you hold but both are truths.
I wasn't wrong. I think it's going to depend on what your belief and interpretation is. But I welcome other ideas on its meaning, which is why I clicked on this thread.
Because killing people is extreme especially just for not submitting your entire life to God?
God wants to create this life and then he wants to make this life obey all he says, killing those who stand in his way. Doesn't seem justified at all to me.
Take some of leviticus- the death penalty for adultery, homosexuality, incest, etc.
Some parts of our society (that being America) look down upon these things, while other have no problem with it, such as me- because there's nothing wrong with them. However, the writs in the Bible command people to stone their community because of these acts.
The reason why God has such a problem with these things is because He wants to have a relationship with us and to do that, He, like any normal relationship, has to set boundaries. To us, Gods standard are extreme. However, to be in the presence of God Himself, you would have to be perfect as no one can see God in all His gory and live. The reason why some of the sentences seem so harsh is so that the people who are ruining it for everyone else need to be dealt with since bad company corrupts good judgement. Also, the wages of sin is death. There were some people that God found so righteous that He just took them up into heaven without them having to die. Today, I don't know of anyone that was so righteous they didn't need to die and just went straight up into heaven. This is why Jesus needed to die on the cross for our sins so that we could be made right with God
God made all of us as we are knowing which boundaries we would push. He made everything the way it is knowing who would end up in heaven or hell, long before they were born.
That isn't a relationship. That's watching rats run a maze, knowing somewhere around 99% will end up being tortured for eternity.
God doesn't want to kill anyone. The bible talks about how God doesn't want anyone to perish but have everlasting life. It also talks about how God gave the people up to their passions. At some point, God had to just let some people be. The thing about God is that He is perfectly just and perfectly good so He wouldn't do something that would make someone go to hell. The people are impure and the awesomely amazing thing about God is how ridiculously easy God made it for us to be in that relationship with Him
As I mentioned earlier, He sets boundaries for the people that He has a relationship with. They were also there for the people to deal with others that would try to cross those boundaries. His standards are pretty high, in fact it expected perfection. People like Enoch, Elijah, and Elisha show that it was possible to follow those standards. The reasons may seem mundane, but they are there for us to get to fully be in relationship with Him
The death penalty is about as high as you could go with standards. Also, I'm pretty sure having sex before a man-made government status is obtained is mundane for sure- and how does it correlate in any way to having a relationship with God?
If you think about, God is the one that created sex. If thats true, it would follow that He be the one to set the rules around which it would be best for that to happen. God's rule is that sex be only between a husband and a wife so that it would represent the union of Jesus and the church as the church is seen as Jesus' bride. Thats why adultery is such an issue because its meant to make two people one flesh in the eyes of God
Assuming it's true, that doesn't make it okay for him to say one is morally wrong. The same argument could be used for interracial marriage if God happened to be against it. Furthermore, comparing marriage to the union of Jesus and the church is quite a stretch- you're giving a church the same characteristics of a person, a female no less. The two are unrelated. Even if God didn't want homosexual marriage, that doesn't justify why it's wrong.
Towards the end of Genesis 1, God created men and women. This implies God created people with the sexual organs and sexual drives. So that means that God at the very least created the means to have sex. It can also be thought of as an inference to the best explanation. Also, if you read Ephesians 5:21-32, it goes into the comparison of marriage and the church. God made marriage between one man and one woman. Its shown in Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4-5
The Bible is not a reliable source- it's hear-say. The evidence for the existence of earth does not suggest creation of man and women spontaneously, and definitely not the creation of the entire universe within a week of the creation of all life and Earth. Much more evidence suggests sexual organs through evolution.
I don't care what the Bible says. There's nothing inherently wrong with gay marriage.
Part of the problem with naturalism is the fact that you have to make a lot of assumptions you can't prove and you'll be left with things you'll never being able to find a natural explanation for. For example, if sexual organs really did come through evolution, did they come before or after the drive to have sex?
God doesn't grade in a curve. It doesn't matter what man accepts, nor what churches accept.
There is one measure, and we all, 100% are born into judged dust. We are all bound under the weight of the whole law.
100% of us need to be born again, and Jesus renews us and changes us. People fall. But a righteous man falls 7 times and gets back up. It's not easy to walk out of the darkness, and walk in light. Jesus sent His Spirit to help us.
We cannot have Eternal Life with God as His children unless we are Born Again. So even if you were "born" gay, or born into a bad environment, or even if your a goody goody, we all 100% must go through the One Gate, Born Again through the work of the Cross and the Resurrection, and the dwelling within us of His Holy Spirit.
I understand that according to Christianity, we are all sinners who need to be saved. Some reasons I understand- lying, stealing, etc, these are punishable acts. However, we have appropriate penalties for these acts, such as jail time, which attempts both punishment and reformation.
The Bible suggests that the price for these sins, however, is eternal suffering, which is very much so cruel and is unnecessary no matter the crime. Of course, no matter the crimes committed, it in the end doesn't matter what you do at all as long as you accept Jesus as your savior, is this correct? It seems to be that God claims to be a just God- yet he commands people to death because they don't have sex the way he likes. He dismisses all those who refuse to submit under his command to eternal suffering. Furthermore, he sends his son to suffer on the cross so that we can be redeemed. Why would God create the function of the universe in such a way so that he would have to cause his own son to suffer and die? God is supposedly omniscient- he creates people in a way that he willingly knows that they will defy him, so his method he constructed himself for avoiding that is to kill his son. Why?
It goes back to the curse on the serpent, and on dust which man was made from.
Jesus walked in our flesh, and overcame living a life above the law in a body made of dust, with a curse of law placed on those from dust on the grounds claim.
His death nailed the curse under the law, against dust and flesh. And He freed us from the dust under the belly of the snake. He walked in it, mastered it, then He nailed it to a tree, and rose up in it, breaking the gravitational pull of sin and darkness, which you can visibly today. It has grown where it is pulling people down to depravity, to an unreasoning mind like animals, marked in the image of the beast.
We need to take the one way, thats to go through the door of the cross. Pick up our Crosses and follow through this One and Only Door. It's repenting and deciding He is going to be God of your life.
He released us from the dust, and the grave, it was by it's dust we were enslaved. .
He opened up the way for us to escape the curse from under the law, and from under Satan's belly all are cursed and destroyed under the law.
And the accuser is our prosecutor slithering over the dust in the ground. His appetite doesn't cease he is cursed eat dust all of his days.
The one only way is through the cross. The earth quaked and the veil was torn. When He died on the cross He struck a blow down against the ground and wounding the serpent on his head.
This is the reason why Jesus is the Only way. When we say He died to save us, He did it the only way He could for our redemption.
He paid our ransom, and our judgement. He fullfilled our sentence as well. The accuser of the brethern accuses us day and night. But we are made innocent and released from the dust under the belly of the serpent, God has to hold to His own Law..
The blood is a sacrifice to cover your sins, to temporarily appease God's wrath against your sin. The first blood sacrifice was made and taken by God Himself when he took the skins of animals to cover Adam and Eve so they could be under the blood of the sacrifice, covered, temporarily excused from execution when they broke God's law.
God promised that He Himself would become that blood sacrifice to pay for our sins so we don't have to pay in Hell. Jesus is referred to as the Lamb of God, the innocent One who came down from Heaven, the Son sent by the Father conceived of the Holy Spirit to be the lamb of God.
The blood of animals or your own blood cannot redeem you. God's own blood is enough to pay in full to redeem you from the curse of sin and death which you are sold under. In order that He may be just in holding sinners in Hell, He paid their price with His own blood to redeem them from the penalty of their sins which is Hell. Believe on Jesus in His resurrection, repent of your sin, and ask God in Jesus' name to save you from Hell, receiving Jesus by faith as your Savior and because you are approaching God on His terms He will hear and accept you and Jesus will come make your heart to be His throne giving you a new heart which hates sin and loves God knowing His kingdom is your home.
The Old Rugged Cross formed the basic design from which the Harrier Jump Jet evolved.
That was the outstanding aircraft which proved to be so successful for the British in the Falklands wars against the Argentinians.
The resurrection was the inspiration behind the song,
''Pick Yourself Up, Dust Yourself down, and Start All Over Again''
Ah, how Fred Astaire danced magnificently to that ageless song.
How the Cross and the resurrection added to life's rich tapestry centuries after they they were made famous.
Some people think that the cross symbolizes the suffering and sacrifice Jesus made so we, mere sinful mortals would be forgiven for our transgressions and that the resurrection was clear evidence of the immortality of Jesus and therefore proof that he was indeed the Son of God.
Others assert that the crucifix is emblematic of the Christian Faith the scriptures of which would be meaningless without the resurrection.
It is meant to mean that God loved mankind so much as to experience the worst of suffering via his son at crucifixion, and that experience by a God alleviated sin and further enhanced God's compassion so that we too can live forever if we only believe.
What it actually means is Jesus Christ was a human who preached different views than the dominant religions and cultures of his day and ultimately was executed for it. Then from his small band of followers his story was spun to include he came back from the dead thus proving yes he is a God. And then over the span of an entire century after that the persecuted followers gradually wrote scripture after scripture explaining what it all meant, gradually getting grander and grander in what Christ was, and building clauses into it to mandate and elevate their religion above all others.
I know you don't agree.
The cross and resurrection story turned a human killed for daring to differ into a god. And a century of further embellishment turned it into a life mandate that you better follow or you'll burn in hell.
yeah, sure, Christians enjoyed being thrown to the lions and burned as human torches after they watched their friends and loved ones suffer the same fate, so they made up fake stories of Jesus being God and promising to return as the King of all Kings so they felt better when they were being tortured and killed for being Christians who refused to bow to Caesar and call him god.
People stand up for beliefs of all kinds. But it doesn't automatically make their belief right.
Hey, I'm fine that you and others believe what you do. To each their own. My only problem is that you yourself are not fine with anyone having a different belief from your own. Whether it's a different religion, or no religion, or science. You are on a constant campaign to promote your belief and mock any other.
Standing up for beliefs does not make a person righteous. You stand up for your beliefs and all of your righteousness is filthy rags in God's sight, He sees you as defiled by sin, unworthy to stand in His presence.
He gave His blood as payment for your sins so you can be covered if you will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Keep on believing in your own beliefs and see if they keep you out of Hell as a sinner.
This is the purpose of the cross of Christ and His resurrection....to justify keeping sinners in Hell throughout eternity, and to justify those who ask God in Jesus' name for mercy to receive Him as their Savior in eternal life in His resurrection.
You need to shut your mouth for a while, not let the wine seep in, and think.
God mocks those who do not believe on His Son. I'm simply agreeing with God, it's silly to reject His offer of pardon through the death and resurrection of His Son, it's silly to try to justify yourself in religion.
God mocks atheists, and wine is a mocker.......you drink your own mockery, wino.
God mocks those who do not believe on His Son. I'm simply agreeing with God, it's silly to reject His offer of pardon through the death and resurrection of His Son, it's silly to try to justify yourself in religion.
God mocks atheists, and wine is a mocker, it makes you a mockery.......you drink your own mockery, wino.
Makes a lot more sense than the idea that an all powerful and all loving god, instead of simply forgiving those he claims to "love", or simply say "believe in me and I will give you life", decided he needed to kill his son (which since they are said to be one would technically be suicide) in order to simply forgive. Why? Because a the ultimate "sacrifice" was needed. Why was this sacrifice needed? Because he said so.
A god cannot be all powerful or all loving......God is all powerful (omnipotent) and while He is love, He hates evil as it seeks to deny Him of His right of ownership over His creation.
God offers you forgiveness in that He took your punishment on Himself, paid your price so you can be relieved by Him in His resurrection. Sin demands justice from God. You can't sin against God and go unpunished. God did not create you because he wanted somebody to oppose Him and go against Him. You are trying to make yourself equal to God when you are a sinner and He is your Creator.
God is showing you mercy, temporary forgiveness giving you time to come into agreement with Him regarding His right to execute vengeance against your sin. He took your punishment on Himself when He knew no sin, the Innocent One, God, died for the guilty one, you. He died for you to save you from Hell. If you will believe on Him and receive Him by faith as your Savior, He will be the justification of your life as He paid your price with His innocent blood so your guilt can be covered by His blood and you will be forgiven.
God did not kill His Son. His Son is God who came down from Heaven to redeem you from your sin. He paid your price in death to buy you back from what you are sold into which is sin. You have earned death eternally in Hell as a sinner. By dying for you, God has earned the right to keep you in Hell forever if you want to die for your own sins which is what you are doing. By rising from the dead, He earned the right to forgive you and keep you safe from Hell in eternal life.
It's all about justice, mercy, righteousness, truth. Trying to pin guilt and blame on God will only get you into Hell. You need to quit doing that before God says no more time for you.
Who taught you these lines you use trying to make God look evil? I have heard them a hundred, maybe two hundred times in the last year. Who is the puppeteer, who is the parrot master so successful to make so many carbon copies of his twisted reasoning against God?
Jesus died for you, He conquered death, death could not hold Him in the ground, He died to pull you up out of the condemnation you are stuck in. He is alive, He gave His life in love for you. Is it bad that somebody should die for you trying to save you? what is wrong with you that you hate your Savior?
Seriously, you need to realize preaching to people you can't convince of your god's existence is pointless. I've heard it all. I spent 33 years as a Christian in church multiple times each week. I was one to intently listen to the sermons over and over again to get as much as I could out of it. That said, I reached a point in my life where I finally decided to allow myself to really question it all and open my eyes and found it all to be a fairy tale. You really need to stop accusing me of hating something that isn't even real.
In another argument you question who taught me these lines that attempt to make your god evil. No one has to teach it. When you stop and really look at what your book teaches, it's obvious. Until you can convince us without the use of your Bible that your god is real, your preaching falls on deaf ears. Unfortunately for you that's not possible. There are so many people from many different religions all claiming the real thing, and as arrogant as you all are in that your particular god is real, no one can show proof.
Why don't you quit preaching to me? Preach your feelings and opinions against God to other people, and I will obey God in preaching the gospel to every creature.
In what you responded to, what did I say that would be considered "preaching"? I first explain where I'm coming from and state we need evidence to support the book from which you preach.
Look, if you want to deny the deity of Christ, the truth of His word, and the reality of condemnation of dying leading to eternal dying in damnation of Hell........deny it. Deny it until you are blue in the face and then find out for sure if what you hope for is real. I hope you manage to not go blue in the face for a long long time.......but feel free to deny the truth until you are blue in the face and try to enjoy yourself while you can. You don't seem to be enjoying yourself in the vicious things you are saying to me. Can't you have some fun?
You're preaching at me trying to tell me that you are justified to live without Hell. That's silly or you would not have to die. Justice is against you. Mercy is giving you time outside of Hell. Truth is you deserve it the same as me. Righteousness demands punishment for your crimes, God Himself took your punishment on the cross so you can be set free, forgiven by Him in His resurrection, pardoned to have eternal life and not be condemned in death to Hell.
Please stop preaching at me about why you think you are justified. You're not justified or you would not be held in condemnation of death, you would not be dying.
no one has to teach you the lines you use against God? You're telling me that even though the evils you speak against God are pretty much verbatim like they are copy and pasted saying the exact things I have heard hundreds of atheists say, you thought them all up on your own?
There are about twelve points used by yourself, the whole summation of your accusations against God, and people who parrot like you use those points as if they are logically sound and unanswerable. All of the points you use do nothing to make God unrighteous, void, or uncaring, and your points do nothing to get you out of condemnation in your sin.
You're the arrogant one, acting like you are better, stronger, smarter than God. Read your own words and take a big whiff......your words reek of arrogance, you sound like you are all wound up with bitterness, your whole speech is just one big hiss of hatred against God.
There is no hatred against something that doesn't exist. Why cannot you not understand this? I'm not asking you to believe the same, I am simply saying you cannot accuse me of hating something that is fake.
Well thanks for your comments, anyways. I hope you enjoy debating with others, you wont' enjoy it with me so it's probably best for me to say "See ya".
I wish you my words were to you like speaking to a deaf person, then I would not have to see your vicious responses.
You're fighting a losing battle, and even if you tear me to pieces you still lose. Jesus conquered death, it could not hold Him in the ground, He can get you out of death now but you reject your Savior so death is all you have and it's taking you to Hell.
I've never jumped at end times messages, although I had an awareness of end times.
But now is, so you may want to take some time to listen and see for yourself. A closed mind can't see or hear, so if God is trying you reach you, He is knocking, but He will only show you if you open the door!
1 Peter says one day is as 1000 years, and 1000 years as one day. And he says that in context of the Lord is not slack on His promises regarding His return.
If you look at creation story 6 days on the 7th He rested.
Each year represents 1000 years of God's work in the world. Fulfilling prophesies and moving His purpose through time.
We are in year 6000. The 6th day, "day of creation of man"
Cain was marked, his 6th generation had doubled Cain's evil, and had declared vengeance x 70 x 7. Evil and violence grew, man became violent continuously. God said He saw the end of flesh. We are there again!
Then, Noah entered the Ark in his 600th year. Jesus said "it will be just like the days of Noah. "
What we see around us is every indication that we are in it. Jesus was clear what to look for.
If you can't see it, ask God to show you.
Video attached very enjoyable. This guy brings intellect and science into what the Bible says, and presents it all very well.
I ran into this guy's videos over the weekend, he is teaching on everything God has been personally showing me for months.
He also has a series on YouTube - "24 hours to learn the Bible," - insight galore!
This is end times light, things God seems to be opening up. This is not basic teaching, it's rich! It's crazy when God shows you a bunch of things you never saw before in scripture, then see He is randomly showing others you never heard of before, and they are seeing the same things He has been showing you.
This one will hopefully inspire you to watch his 24 hour series. He'll knock your sock off!
As I have already relayed to you, even if you allow for the earth to be billions of years old and just start counting 24 hour days with the "creation" of the sun (complete nonsense) - the sun and stars are also billions of years old.
Noah entered the Ark in his 600th year.
Right, the 600 year old man who built a boat for a worldwide flood that left no evidence.
What we see around us is every indication that we are in it.
The same (dumb) logic all the past (wrong) end time predictions used.
My sheep hear my voice another they simply will not follow.
If His Word does not draw you, then it's possible you may not be one of His sheep. I hope you are, but if the Word can't reach you, then you just may not know His voice.
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from
Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness
Enslavement, we are born into bondage, its like we are death row waiting for the final sentence to be carried out.
The law binds us to death, because the only way to fullfill it is
to be perfect from start to finish. Making us all law breakers, in judgement by all of the law.
We have a choice of freedom. In this world we are already slaves. We are born into slavery. Jesus came to set us free. We are enslaved under the claim of the Devil.
Our fall gave him claim, man was made from was dust outside of the Garden. When man fell, he was sent back out from where his dust came from, and to dust man would die and return.
The weight of our sin is crushing. The stone is falling on us. So you either fall onto the stone, and are broken, and set free, released from the binding curse of the dust. The judgement for all Under the law. Or He falls on you, and you are crushed.
It goes back to the prophesy at the fall of man. When God said to the serpent He would put enmity between the serpent's seed, and the woman's Seed, He will wound the serpents head, and he will strike His heal."
Which makes sense if I'm correct about Satan's origin and making a blackhole, since he was the "bright morning" star. Jesus said He saw Satan fall to the earth like lightening, maybe like a star imploding.
So possibly the dirt is mixed with star dust in the ground. That could be what God used to give us free will. Maybe we are the challenge. If we fall the law works against
The star imploding makes sense and I think that is the door to Sheol, or Hell. That's on a shelf. I mention that because, there are things coming to understanding, and are not fully understood yet.
Jesus walked in our shoes, and overcame living a life above the law in a body our body made of dust, placed on those from dust on the grounds claim.
His death nailed the curse under the law, against dust and flesh. And He freed us from the dust under the belly of the snake. We need to take His way, pick up our Crosses and follow through this One and Only Door.
He released us from the dust, and the grave, it was by it's dust we were enslaved. .
He opened up the way for us to escape the curse from under the law, and from under Satan's belly all are cursed and destroyed under the law.
And the accuser is our prosecutor slithering over the dust in the ground. His appetite doesn't cease he is cursed eat dust all of his days.
The one only way is through the cross. The earth quaked and the veil was torn. When He died on the cross He struck a blow down against the ground and wounding the serpent on his head.
This is the reason why Jesus is the Only way. When we say He died to save us, He did it the only way He could for our redemption.
He paid our ransom, and our judgement. He fullfilled our sentence as well. The accuser of the brethern accuses us day and night. But we are made innocent and released from the dust under the belly of the serpent, God has to hold to His own Law.
We were ransomed from sin and death, and if we don't take His Way out to freedom the world is decending into the depth of the pit, the only way out is through Jesus, His cross where we are changed a payment blood for blood life for life, the payment of the law which is the weight of the earth Born Again saving His children from the harsh judgement under the weight and the serpent struck His heal. And he set free the work of flesh curruption being driven to death by a world dictator, who has a fierce appetite for flesh, as he was cursed to eat dust all his days!
You may not realize the control over us by the ruler of this world. We are mere puppets. Whether they scream moral restraint or they are tools of moral depravity, they are tools. Controlled by their passions and lead by their nose. They took control of man, everything that was wrong for man they orchestrated it with cunning manipilulation.
God didn't create this mess, the end of man is the reign of darkness. God knew all, and with His prophesies He put everything man needs for ouur final Salvation. When we are finally raised in a body like His.Like Jesus' who was God in man redeeming us by ruling our bodies of dust and sin and death.
Every action against law drove history to his final end.
But where Satan destroys us like leftover fries, Jesus came to give us hope, in a place where there is no hope. A way to climb out of the gravitational pull, in the blackhole below us, that's name is Sheol.
The Resurrection of the mortal and fully human rabbi cum political rabble rouser we know of today as Jesus of Nazareth is simply another Bronze Age Hebrew myth.
IF he ever even existed (evidence of a secular nature is indeed scarce, and consists of only brief 2-3 sentence blurbs) Yeshua was just another zealot of those hot-tempered times in First Century Palestine. (read Aza Reslan's excellent book: "Zealot" for a good fell of what it was like back then.)
So..he was fully human and after being dead for three days from being hung on a cross by Roman officials, he could not have possible rose up anywhere. Unless of course his followers exhumed his body. Which is not all that far-fetched.
Any sort of Resurrection was one of a spiritual nature only. And done among his followers. Who might have had a sort of epiphany or religious experience (or so they thought) in the days or weeks after JC's death. A couple of them had an "A-HA!" moment, thinking they now understood his message, and began on their quest to turn JC into a martyr.
(One that was badly needed as a sort of poster boy in their uprising against the Romans and the Pharisees.)
As far as the Cross, it means nothing to me. In fact, I have always thought it to be an absurd and silly symbol of one's faith. And sort of gruesome as well. If I were a Christian I would want a better and more uplifting symbol, like the Mormons' Mustard Seed, for example.
Reminds me of the old joke by Lenny Bruce. He asked, "If the electric chair had been around back then and had been used by the Romans to kill Jesus, would Christians today all be walking around with little electric chairs hanging around their necks?
So you have no Savior, you are stuck in death, pretending you are stronger than God and fireproof so you can't burn in Hell, and you think you are great for putting on a big stinking show of defying God. Whoopity doo. All cheer for Slap Shot! Woo Woo, Whoopity Dooo!!!!!
LOL.....a tragic comedy
LOL all you can, friend....things won't get any better the way you are going, and God is going to mock you, laugh at your calamity when it comes. Curse God and LOL all you can while you can. Time is short, make it count.
Uprising against the Romans and the Pharisees? Are you kidding? Jews in Judea fighting against the Romans? And when was anybody fighting against the Pharisees?
The only fabricated story is your own, Slappy. Why is it so important to you that everybody believe you are telling the truth about your personal life but you don't care if you fabricate your own version of history making yourself into a FRAUD!?
Why does and atheist like me seem to know more about Jewish history during the 1st Century AD than you, a self-rpoclaimed Christian? Hmm...this doesn't seem right, Mr. Saint.
Hope this helps. I learned about this stuff years ago. As I have said, my knowledge on the bible and the Jews and the Christians' history is extensive. Please don't take it lightly.
Oh...and here is some stuff on how the Pharisees and Jewish elders were also persecutors of the early Christian movement...
The Jewish revolt in AD 70 was 35 years after the death of Christ, and it resulted in the razing of the temple exactly as prophesied by Christ.
There was no political uprising around Christ, there was no battle against the Pharisees. There was fierce persecution against Christians, throwing them to the lions and burning them alive or boiling them in oil and such things, and a large percentage of them if not most of them were Jewish. If you and your people were being treated that way, you would not fight?
You are twisting history and changing the chronology, inventing your own fraudulent version. Why do you not care about being a FRAUD in this area? You are being either intellectually lazy or intellectually dishonest, your version of history is fraudulent, and if you are not a FRAUD you should quit posting fraudulent versions of history.
How can you say there was no political uprising aorund JC when 1st Century Palestine was a hotbed of political and social unrest between the Jews and the Romans?
And the fact that it was the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin that turned JC over to Pilate? And as I said there was the revolt in AD 70. So what if it was after JC was killed? Fact remains that the Romans fought ther Jews and the jews rebelled. Just like I said in my OP. You claimed it never happened. I proved you wrong.
And the Pharisees were constant persecutors of the Christians. How can you not know that Saul was a Pharisee who persecuted Christians before his conversion while on the road to Damascus? And you need to also know that Paul too a LONG time after that Conversion to begin his ministry. His first letter was not until a good 15 years later!
All during that time there was constant political and social turmoil in Palestine. Yeshua was simply one of several rabble rousers and zealots whom the Roman anchorites needed to squelch. So they did. that bit about Pilate offering to release a prisoner in honor of the Passover? And the Pharisees/Sanhedrin STILL insisting on JC and not Barabbas being crucified? How can you not say this was an instance of Jewish elders being against the Christians?
I twist nothing. I state facts, and do not let my religion or indoctrination cloud my thinking. As some people do. Unlike you, sir, I have no dog in this fight. I simply report the history as it happened.
You are inventing your own anti-Christ version of history, Slappy. Jesus spoke out against the sins of the Jewish religious leaders. He taught obedience to Rome, His followers obeyed Roman law except in denying God to say Caesar is God. The Romans in Judea found Jesus to be innocent. He was not a political rabble rouser, and as long as you say He was a political rabble rouser, you are a FRAUD. You refer to Pilate, yet it was Pilate who said he found no fault in Jesus.....and you still say he was a political rabble rouser the Romans wanted to squelch? You're a fraud, Slappy, intellectually lazy or intellectually dishonest...which is it?
Even though the Jewish religious leaders hated Christians, I'm sure that as a lot of Christians who were Jews and being tortured to death or thrown to the lions were friends of loved ones of Jews who had not believed on Jesus. Most of the Christians being thrown to lions were Jews, and the Jews who were not Christians had to feel some kind of kindred with them and that would have added fuel to the revolt in 70 AD but even your own source seems to indicate Christians were not in that rebellion. Jesus taught obedience to Rome, as did Paul in his letters even while Paul was being unjustly imprisoned by the Romans and left for dead by the Jews.
As for your fabrication of the disciples taking the body of Christ out of the tomb, how did they do that when the tomb was guarded by Roman soldiers at the request of Jewish religious leaders who obviously had the power of Rome on their side against Christians and were desperate to be sure to keep Jesus' body in the tomb to show He could not be God who could not be defeated by death? And why would early Christians, if they had not seen Jesus alive, refuse to renounce their assertion that He was alive when they were being thrown to the lions and burned at the stake, had no political power or influence in Rome as they were rejected from Jewish society and used as examples by Caesar who demanded Roman citizens call him the god of Rome?
You're a fraud, Slappy, making stuff up as you go along...I've seen you present many conflicting versions of history, all fabrications which simple logic and common sense should tell you they are. Bad news for you.......Jesus is your Judge if not your Savior. You trample His blood under your feet, and that's where you will be standing when you appear before Him in judgement, and you will be rejected by Him in death as you rejected Him in life for the sake of keeping your pride and enjoying your sins.
You are inventing your own anti-Christ version of history, Slappy. Jesus spoke out against the sins of the Jewish religious leaders. He taught obedience to Rome, His followers obeyed Roman law except in denying God to say Caesar is God. The Romans in Judea found Jesus to be innocent. He was not a political rabble rouser, and as long as you say He was a political rabble rouser, you are a FRAUD. You refer to Pilate, yet it was Pilate who said he found no fault in Jesus.....and you still say he was a political rabble rouser the Romans wanted to squelch? You're a fraud, Slappy, intellectually lazy or intellectually dishonest...which is it?
Even though the Jewish religious leaders hated Christians, I'm sure that as a lot of Christians who were Jews and being tortured to death or thrown to the lions were friends of loved ones of Jews who had not believed on Jesus. Most of the Christians being thrown to lions were Jews, and the Jews who were not Christians had to feel some kind of kindred with them and that would have added fuel to the revolt in 70 AD but even your own source seems to indicate Christians were not in that rebellion. Jesus taught obedience to Rome, as did Paul in his letters even while Paul was being unjustly imprisoned by the Romans and left for dead by the Jews.
As for your fabrication of the disciples taking the body of Christ out of the tomb, how did they do that when the tomb was guarded by Roman soldiers at the request of Jewish religious leaders who obviously had the power of Rome on their side against Christians and were desperate to be sure to keep Jesus' body in the tomb to show He could not be God who could not be defeated by death? And why would early Christians, if they had not seen Jesus alive, refuse to renounce their assertion that He was alive when they were being thrown to the lions and burned at the stake, had no political power or influence in Rome as they were rejected from Jewish society and used as examples by Caesar who demanded Roman citizens call him the god of Rome?
Paul began his ministry almost immediately after his conversion....he was "certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus", then "straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues..". It was not a long time after his conversion before he began his ministry, it was only a few days. (Acts 9:8-22). Paul set up the churches which he later wrote letters to. He was sacrificing his life in his ministry as soon as the scales fell from his eyes three days after he met Jesus on the road to Damascus.
You need to slow down and get your facts straight and act like you care about the truth of things, instead of pushing your personal fabrications which is fraud. You twist everything, you don't seem to care about facts. You're a fraud, Slappy. You need to admit some errors or I'll have to keep saying you are a fraud trying to twist things in your vitriol against Jesus Christ.
You're a fraud, Slappy, making stuff up as you go along...I've seen you present many conflicting versions of history, all fabrications which simple logic and common sense should tell you they are. Bad news for you.......Jesus is your Judge if not your Savior. You trample His blood under your feet, and that's where you will be standing when you appear before Him in judgement, and you will be rejected by Him in death as you rejected Him in life for the sake of keeping your pride and enjoying your sins. Keep going the way you are and you're going to be frying like a no-melt hockey puck in Hell, and maybe you can keep the crowd cheering you to your grave but they won't be cheering you in Hell.
I said there was no rebellion with Christ being the leader as a political rabble rouser. There was was none around Christ. I didn't say there never was one. There was no rebellion at the time of Christ, the Jews lived in subjection to Rome and they sought Roman approval to have Christ crucified. The only thing you proved is that you are trying to distort history if you really are aware of it, or you prove you are not aware of it while you claim to have extensive knowledge of it. Either way, you are being a fraud.
And when there was a revolt, it was a total flop.......there was no revolt during Christ's life because the pressure of Rome was not so unbearable at that time. A revolt against Rome by the Jews was a losing venture they were reluctant to push, and the idea was not around in Christ's lifetime.......not seriously promoted, they knew it would be a losing venture. With Jewish Christians being thrown to the lions, pressure of Rome finally made the Jews snap....yet your own source shows nothing of Christians being in that revolt, nothing of Christ inciting rebellion against Rome. You're making up your own version of history as you go along, anything you can dream up that you might feel fools people into believing your slanders against Christ.......why you want to be the leader of a crowd of anti-Christs, I guess I would have to ask Judas Iscariot to explain your motives.
Your own source seems pretty clear in saying it was Jews and not Christians who engaged in the revolt. This would mean the followers of Christ followed His teachings, and the teachings of Paul, to obey the laws of the land.
In your fraudulent version of history, you made Jesus the leader of the revolt....even though it occured 35+plus years after His death and His follower, according to your own source, were not involved........though who could blame them if they were?
Your version of history is fraudulent, Jesus was considered innocent by the Romans, He was not a political rabble rouser, you're a fraud when you portray yourself as a historian and it reflects on your character in other areas.
Either you don't know what you are talking about or you are purposely presenting a fraudulent account of History....and I have to lean with you are purposely presenting a fraudulent account of History because you feel it is vital to trash Jesus Christ.
Over the time I have watched you, you have presented many different versions of history and each time you act like you believe the one you are presenting even though it disagrees completely with other versions you present, with only one thing in common in every version...you try to trash Jesus Christ. You're a fraud, Slappy, sorry.
Your knowledge on the Bible, Jews, and Christian history is twisted by your hatred against God. Because of your feelings, you present many different versions of history, all of them bent on trashing Jesus Christ. You act like you believe everything you post even though your accounts contradict each other.........but as long as the bottom line is to trash Jesus Christ, you are good with it. It's fraudulent, Slappy.
And you still have not conceded that your usage of "junk DNA" as proof of evolution is archaic and intellectually lazy if not dishonest. This is a common thread in atheism, intellectual laziness/dishonesty....wasted. You could do some damage control on your reputation by saying "I was wrong, scientists are finding what was previously called "junk DNA" functions in ways we are beginning to understand and need to study more."
I think you are so concerned about being intelligent, that it actually escapes you. Have people in your life made you feel that acceptance and value is only on the basis of achieving some academia?
You seem to try really hard to prove yourself, and their not even looking. If you don't feel they love you, you will never feel you've earned it.
You scream like you are clawing and striving.
Who is it that you love, yet resent, because they are so lofty? Approval if given would be fleeting, till your next achievement. Then in a moment it passes over you again.
God's love isn't like that. He comes to us. We cant achieve or earn His love and attention. Like children, He loves us beyond measure, hold our hands like we are the apple of His eye, and nurtures us in all the good of His ways.
What made Saul the harsh murdering persecutor of Christians, turn into an Appostle that fullfilled all the Biblical Prophesies of the Gospel of Jesus going out to all Nations?
Paul didn't get a promotion or pay raise, so why would he choose to go from the persecutor and prosecutor TO the persecuted and prosecuted?
Does the number of followers determine what is true?
I'm pretty sure you (and/or SaintNow) believes that Catholics aren't real Christians - which would result in there being more Muslims than Christians - so clearly you should be Muslim, right?
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”
3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will
be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom
shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18 Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Luke 17
22 And He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.
23 They will say to you, ‘Look there! Look here!’ Do not go away, and do not run after them. 24 For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
31 On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife.
33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
36 [Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.”] 37 And answering they *said to Him, “Where, Lord?” And He said
to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.”
Yeah ok! Your a one dimensional moron. You can be healed from that handicap!
Does anyone have any perception with anything outside of a textbook? One dimensional, two dimensional max!
Soulless or no spirit is NO other dimension. That's the way you want it, so it is! Who wants to be without soul, and absent of spirit? The place of living, feeling, touching more than with your hands. That's a pretty crappie deal if you ask me!
How did everyone get so two dimensional? Does everyone live in a flat world? There is no intuition or sensitivity to all the other dimensions around everyone, you all look digitally programmed.
FYI, that is the mark of the beast. It’s a mark on the frontal lobes as “on their foreheads.” It’s a mind unable to draw from their other dimmmension, perception, other senses. Then taste smell, etc…
That's the mark of the beast. A sealed shut mind that can’t understand or percieve anything outside of what's in front of them in a text book by an all powerful educator to mimic!
Everyone is being pulled down, falling out of higher dimensions.
That was the fall, and you guys are falling to only one dimension.
That's the way you want it, so it is! Who wants to be without soul
Exactly - just because you want something to be true doesn't mean it is.
It is definitely understandable that you want a soul and a purpose and a heaven waiting just for you - but just wanting something isn't a persuasive argument that it actually exists.
Wow, no ora, no sixth sense, no premonitions, no perception, no dreams, no visions, no understanding, only academia, only driven by your biolgyical requirement, survival, and dominance. No feelings, no emotions, only those convenient to ones biology. Love doesn't exist, it can't. There is no spirit or soul. So they can't be real, only tricks of your mind to feed you basic instinct.
You are mere animals programmed by the demands of your biology. That is all you are, because that is all you can be.
So pardon me for not being interested, it doesn't sound at all appealing to me!
Everyone knows you can't get EVERYTHING you want, except democrats. They seen to be a never satisfied murderous violent spending pit. I can see where the socialists and communists infiltrated to.
China, Russia, and Egypt, Iran, and Cuba leading that mob !
How can purpose of nations be declared on a fetus, if the fetus isn't looked at as an individual?
Genesis 25:23
The Lord said to her, “Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger.”
Another signaled out from the uterus of his mother.
Judges 16:17
So he told her all that was in his heart and said to her, “A razor has never come on my head, for I have been a Nazirite to God from my mother’s womb. If I am shaved, then my strength will leave me and I will become weak and be like any other man.”
Uma God knows them at conception. So God will execute vengeance for their murders. And all those who give approval will be equally judged according to all the blood that is spilt!
I think Republicans react. I think one has control of society through infiltration of education, beginning with universities, then down.
Brainwash the teacher 1st, then indoctrinate the child. It's silly to think, especially with cold war agents weaving into the fabric of our society that this wasn't occurring since the establishment of America.
And founding fathers warned of it, not because of theory, but because of experience. These were men who were educated, who stood against that occurring, and stood with the free choice given by God.
So many of them have quotes warning, we just didn't get it. And we are taken by it all. And then we have the last days factor, which biblically would progress to be taken by deceptions regardless. So then we can really say, these educated men of God, not Tom Jefferson, and not all, but many of them, are warnings to the righteous. Confirming prophesies as in Revelations as fact. Connecting scripture to current events, to ultimately edify the faithful. As the wicked and violent are swept away by the Spirit of deception that is upon us.
The lie of all lies. That truth doesn't exist, that it is subjective. Go tell that to a judge in a murder case, with a murder in front of Him. Is truth subjective? Is the murderers truth equal to the judges truth?
Things like this don't make you think? You know a mind without ability to reason is the mark of the beast, fyi!
Since Jews were scattered for a real long time, how would this even make sense? How many allies do you think Ancient Israel had? And how often were they surrounded by many Nations all around them, with other Nations as their allies?
Umm today!!!
.
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of TREMBLING unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it…
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle
a mind without ability to reason is the mark of the beast, fyi!
and so is the roman coin, and the one world currency, and the image of the emperor, and required worship on Sunday, and RFID implants, and Islam, and evolution, and and and...
If it means everything, does it really have a meaning at all?
17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function
of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only
do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
But many are called by His Name, and He will say, I never Knew you.
So it's all been told ahead of time. That's the part you don't seen to want to see.
And in a short time, Israel is going to go through more, and will see He is the Messiah, by then you may be marked and sealed for delivery.
Well, that is not entirely honest and accurate. I admit.
Why?
Because, sometimes it does. Like, when I see somebody wearing a crucifix or somebody has one of those fish on their cars.
What does that mean to me?
It immediately drops that person down a couple notches in my book as far as their credibility and objectivity is concerned. I immediately think they are probably not very well educated, and are hapless victims of indoctrination or delusion. Usually when they were kids.
And being in post grad school, I have always noticed that the more time you spend in an academic environment, the less of those little crosses and fishy's you see.
Hmm...wonder why that is? And wonder why so many convicts seem to find god in prison? And why are the poorest and least-educated states also the ones with the highest percentage of church goers?
And why are the states with the highest atheist populations also the ones with the highest average educational level and the best quality of living?
Seems to me to be an undeniable tie between being religious and being poor and stupid.
You are sick, what is in you? Nothing? The earth was dark and void and without form, God said Let Light Be! And God saw it was good! Good, light is good! Why would you want to be empty?
What made Saul the harsh murdering persecutor of Christians, turn into an Appostle that fullfilled all the Biblical Prophesies of the Gospel of Jesus going out to all Nations?
Paul did not get a promotion or pay raise. So then, why would Saul/Paul choose to go from the lofty praised Jew of Jews persecutor and prosecutor, TO, the fugitive Christian
Does it concern you to know you are written about in the Bible? How could some one so many years ago know there will be people around who will think like you. Here are a few scriptures that answer your questions. “Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”; and again, “The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.””
I Corinthians 3:18-20 “Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?”
James 2:5. “Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.””
Luke 5:31-32. My apologies for not having them in the right order to answer your questions. You see by making yourself full of worldly knowledge you have no room for GODLY knowledge. The poor, least-educated and sinners (convicts) have humbled themselves and ask GOD for help. This is why salvation has come to us. Try something go in a room alone close the door humble yourself and ask GOD for help. You have nothing to lose. You don't even have to tell anyone just keep it between you and him.
One reason it does not reveal God, is because our flesh made of dust is familiar with darkness. Light hurts our eyes. When our dust was cursed it was tied down to the ground.
"Dust to dust," "surely you will die" Our flesh took on a nature of curruption. And was put under the jailor's belly, who is the decieving serpent, whose appetite is insatiable for eating dust all his days.
Ever hear or say, “ I'd rather be lied to then know the truth?” We would rather not know, go in with our eyes half open, or closed even.
Why?
Because flesh is under evil imprisonment, flesh feels tied to its captor. We have to look up and understand. It's a dimension that is not comfortable or familiar, as the captor is. It's human nature when in captivity to depend on the one who hold us captive.
And we are one with this, because we are under him, without any escape, except through the Cross and Resurrection.
Jesus walked a life in our cursed dust, then nailed it to a tree, paid ransom with His blood, and raised up out of the dust with a glorified body, so we can follow him out of this Hell hole, and escape the place called Sheol.
To be raised as new creations, who will soon have a body like His.Like, that is not under the belly of the serpent.
Proving that God loves us. If all you knew was Utopia, and God said "I love you" it would be meaningless. After seeing the cross, his love is proven. And it's the same for us. If we had only been in Utopia, God would have no tangible proof that we love him in return. But when you stay faithful to him even in the darkness, now your love has value to him as well. The darkness is what proved our love for one another.
