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Debate Info

17
11
Compelled to do Barred from doing
Debate Score:28
Arguments:48
Total Votes:32
More Stats

Argument Ratio

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 Compelled to do (13)
 
 Barred from doing (11)

Debate Creator

Amarel(5667) pic



What are you unjustly compelled to do? What are you barred from?

Things that you want to do but unreasonable cannot and things that you reasonably don’t want to do, but must.

Compelled to do

Side Score: 17
VS.

Barred from doing

Side Score: 11
2 points

Pay Property tax. I should not be required to pay “rent” for my own property. It’s not only fundamentally wrong, but the way it is used has created educational barriers for the poor.

Side: Compelled to do
cruzaders(326) Clarified
1 point

way it is used has created educational barriers for the poor.

What do you mean?

Side: Compelled to do
Amarel(5667) Clarified
1 point

Property taxes are often used to fund public education. Wealthier areas have higher property taxes. This often means that public schools are better in wealthier areas and relatively shabby in poorer areas. Parents have been jailed for lying about where they live to get there kids into a better school district.

Side: Compelled to do
2 points

Interestingly like Amarel I’m compelled to pay a property tax which I find to be outrageous all the more so as I own my own home and am mortgage free , the tax is increased as property goes up in value , those living in the capital Dublin pay more as the properties are far more expensive there .

This tax was introduced like many more during our dreadful recession when the country was very nearly destroyed

I’m barred from “blaspheming “ which I find ridiculous ,

A quick overview of the blasphemy law and its impact on society.

The Defamation Act 2009 makes blasphemy a crime punishable by a €25,000 fine. Blasphemy is defined as “matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion” with safeguards to make it harder to prosecute.

Regardless of the detail, it is wrong in principle for a modern democratic republic to have any type of blasphemy law. Theological thought-crimes belong in the past. Religious and nonreligious people alike should be protected from harm and incitement to harm, but religious and nonreligious ideas alike should be open to any criticism. That is how human knowledge progresses. Blasphemy laws discriminate against nonreligious citizens, by protecting the fundamental beliefs of religious citizens only

Side: Compelled to do
Amarel(5667) Clarified
1 point

Do you find the laws compelling property tax and banning blasphemy to be a product of tyranny? Is your government tyrannical?

Side: Compelled to do
Dermot(5736) Clarified
1 point

No , certainly not , personally I find these laws unfair for the reasons I state as in the property tax costs a lot more for me as I live in the capital and the blasphemy law is unfair as it affords the religious a special right not given to others

Side: Compelled to do
1 point

That's really fascinating, Dermot. I had no idea there was a blasphemy law where you are.

I do agree though. To pay property tax on property you outright own but then are under the threat if having said property taken away if you don't pay the tax....or get heavily fined for not paying it....really makes it seem like all of this is just renting the right to own.

Side: Compelled to do
Dermot(5736) Clarified
1 point

Hi Mint , most people find it rather strange to hear we a blasphemy law , also people rarely talk about religion over here as no one is really bothered either way

The property tax infuriates me , Amarel stated he pays one do all Americans pay one ?

Side: Compelled to do
1 point

Taxes overall, and the list is extensive, is a form of tyranny and oppression. For one thing, it is immoral in the sense that it is really a form of theft called extortion; and then, given the name of tax to cover that. An Individual would be acting unlawfully if they were to try it themselves or with a number of others.

There are factors that go into that as well, such as forced labor, i.e. filing the tax. Now, a person could not file and manage to stay under the radar, for a while anyway, but they are still having it taken from their paycheck.

There are ways an individual can work around these things. There are some ideas that might make less overwhelming. Keeping one's income at a certain level would exempt them from paying income taxes for example. Yet, they would still be forced to pay sales tax on most things they purchase.

I think that these things, such as tyranny and oppression, have become subtle. But the division amongst people is seen as political. Ultimately, it is not one tyrant passing down decrees, or even just a few. It is the vast majority of the population forcing their neighbor to pay for things they might be morally opposed to. Such as, paying for abortion on one side or paying for the military (a.k.a. national defense) on the other.

It becomes one person forcing their own values and beliefs, opinions and such upon their neighbor through a third party. And their neighbor doing the same. It is essentially like we have created our own prison.

I believe it starts with fear and from there mass manipulation of perception is used. This creates an illusion of control over individuals and they become convinced that they need someone to dictate to them how to live and have peaceful co-existence amongst their fellow human-beings.

Those in supposed positions of power are the ones waging such psychological warfare, but it does not have to continue. And really, does not need to be all out bloody fighting, like what occurred with the American Civil War in the 1860's. I do not believe that there is any who truly wishes to see that.

But there are those who are trying to pull something and do so quietly, to pull it off; like taking over the world without anyone realizing it happened. The name Social Engineers has been given to them; I see them more as social manipulators.

However, we can speak of these things, but the simple truth is it comes down to the Individual person and how they lead their life. One can rant about these things I mentioned and be against such things, but they need to define, for themselves what it is that they Stand FOR rather than against.

That's how I see it in a kind of overview.

Side: Compelled to do
1 point

Die .

Side: Compelled to do
1 point

Well. I guess I should be glad that no one on this site can bitch about tyranny or oppression.

Side: Barred from doing
1 point

First of all, adults should be permitted to use drugs if they wish. Further, in my country, England, we can own a gun for hunting or sport but not for self-defense and I'd like to see this change (though the British public are incredibly anti-gun). We English also have the issue of offensive jokes being classed as criminally indictable "hate-speech".

In addition, there is no place for people who wish to opt-out of the system we live under to live; I'd like to see an area put aside for this purpose. Not only would it allow people to honestly assess the benefits and costs of our society first hand, but it would also allow people to test other means of organization.

Side: Barred from doing
Amarel(5667) Clarified
1 point

Would you consider your government tyrannical?

there is no place for people who wish to opt-out of the system we live under to live

What would opting out of the system look like? In the US people have often experimented with communes, usually structured around some type of socialism.

Some Amish communities live mostly off the grid. Other than records of property ownership, there is very little legal evidence that an individual Amish person exists. Is that what you mean?

Side: Compelled to do
WinstonC(1228) Clarified
1 point

"Would you consider your government tyrannical?"

This made me think of what defines whether a government is tyrannical or not, which would presumably be a subjective assessment. This is particularly true since different societies require different levels of authoritarianism to maintain order (Russia requires more than the U.S., for example). I'd say that the practice of punishing people for offensive speech is tyrannical, though I'm not sure if this makes the government tyrannical. While I appreciate that tyrannical practices are what cause a government to be evaluated as tyrannical, I am not sure where to draw the line. Should I assess a government as tyrannical when it has one tyrannical practice or when it has ten? If we look at it as a scale then we could say that the British government is somewhat tyrannical, but comparable to many other societies (particularly historically) it is relatively libertarian.

"What would opting out of the system look like? In the US people have often experimented with communes, usually structured around some type of socialism. Some Amish communities live mostly off the grid. Other than records of property ownership, there is very little legal evidence that an individual Amish person exists. Is that what you mean?"

I'd like a mechanism for people/groups to be able to not pay property taxes etc. and effectively secede from the nation they reside within. This would of course mean forsaking all the benefits of society, and any infrastructure or services that the person/group needed would need to be paid for (e.g. must pay road tax if driving). This would mean that libertarian "live off the land" types could be free to hunt and fish and live naturally without having to earn money to pay taxes (provided they own land). It would also mean that radicals can form their own communist "utopia" on their own land. In doing so, we might remove the desire of these radicals to destroy the system they reside within by allowing them to do things their own way without affecting everyone else. It also would demonstrate to them massive benefits to the society they reside within: while society is oppressive, it is also responsible for a greatly improved quality of life.

Side: Compelled to do
NumberOne(422) Disputed Banned
0 points

we can own a gun for hunting or sport but not for self-defense and I'd like to see this change

Thankfully, parliament is reluctant to take advice from psychopathic pussies who want to put holes in other people's heads.

Side: Compelled to do
WinstonC(1228) Clarified
4 points

Your insult has caused me to reassess my worldview and align it completely with yours.

Side: Compelled to do
1 point

I love my wife but according to her:

I can't put ketchup on a hotdog,

I can't wear black and blue together, and

I can't walk through the house in the winter with shoes on

Yeah, yeah, she isn't harsh about it, I get away with them often, but they're examples where we just don't agree.

German currywurst is basically a hotdog with ketchup with curry added and it's just about the leading hotdog dish nationally.

Black to me is like white - it goes with pretty much everything. The only issue is if the colors are too close to each other, like dark navy with black, but that's not usually what I'm doing when it's pointed out.

And I walk through the house with shoes on because I'm doing 10 times the amount of necessary things to keep us rolling, like taking out trash, scraping car windshields, doing laundry, takinging stuff to/from storage, etc., and popping shoes on and off a dozen times is ridiculous.

It seems to me the objections are arbitary and based solely on artifacts from her own life as opposed to hard rules.

Side: Barred from doing
Amarel(5667) Clarified
2 points

You may be oppressed. .

Side: Compelled to do
Grenache(6054) Clarified
2 points

Hey, leave our bedroom out of this.......................................................

Side: Compelled to do
Mint_tea(4647) Clarified
1 point

Whoa wait. What color blue? Because blue jeans that are lighter in color and a black shirt is fine....so is there an allowance for shades?

Side: Compelled to do
Grenache(6054) Clarified
1 point

Exactly. The shade matters. I've had times I put blue jeans on my two year old and then grabbed a hoody with black in it and was told no I can't put a black shirt with blue jeans. Ridiculous.

Side: Compelled to do
outlaw60(15368) Disputed Banned
1 point

Diaper Boy do as your told by the wife that dominates you. If there ever was a pussy whipped individual you are it !

Side: Compelled to do
Grenache(6054) Disputed
1 point

Nonsense. I already said I do those things anyway and get away with it.

Side: Barred from doing
1 point

I've been told I can't wear socks with sandals....I love sandals but my feet get cold all the time, so it's a conundrum.

Side: Barred from doing
Amarel(5667) Clarified
1 point

Is there anything you are legally compelled to or barred from that you shouldn’t be ?

Side: Compelled to do
1 point

Hummm. I can't smoke or use marijuana for pain but I can take a highly addictive drug with an opioid? Although I try not to use medicines anyways.... in a sense, yes, I am barred from taking a safer substance because my job depends on it.

Side: Barred from doing
1 point

Living forever .

Side: Barred from doing
1 point

The real Truth of the matter is: I am only barred from the things I choose to bar myself from. I do my best to keep my own moral code and integrity in tact as I live my life. I do my best to live as righteous as I can with myself and by extension, all others in my life.

It cannot be denied that there are consequences for our actions or even inactions, positive and negative; it would just do well to recognize that.

That is how I see it.

Side: Barred from doing